I’m a Kiwi and I’ve lived in US for the past 12 years and I always wondered why NFL never tries to take advantage of their offensive linemen and push through during scrummage. If they’re 1-2yards from the goal line. Finally, we have a NFL team that understands this
@@kaseywahlCongrats on the World Cup win mate. The Springboks played better and were the better team. Fair play to your nation. Back to back champion is an incredible achievement!
@@AnthonyRusso93oh ok. I didn’t know that, thanks. As for this “tush push” rule, it seemed very obvious to me. Also, American football allows blocking to create path for the attacking team. In rugby, we can’t do that and it’s against the rule and we call it “Shepherd”, which is kind of like obstruction. I know when it’s down to the wire, I’ve seen plenty of NFL and college football teams run the “lateral play”. All of rugby’s plays are run on lateral plays so if any NFL teams practice that a lil bit more, it’s effectiveness can be greatly increased as well.
As a "rugby guy" I think the move has more in common to a driving maul from a line out than a scrum - fewer players than the 8 of a scrum with the ball carrier immediately behind the front impact players and the "binds" being less significant (though its still important that there is structure to both the driving maul and the "Brotherly shove")
This is what I’ve said to everyone I’ve spoken to about it, and it’s also why I think it should be low-key banned, unless the NFL bring in the same rules about Mauls that exist in rugby, because when one side is moving, and the other is static, that is when huge damage can occur.
and as a kelce enjoyer i'm happy the moment jason is gone that 93% becomes like 70% even with the eagles but i wanna know not the eagles success rate but the current league success rate. and if its over 85% ban it for competitive reasons
It might give you solace to know that plenty of smart people in NFL teams were gonna dissect this whether or not Brett made a video everything gets figured out eventually in the NFL
It's somewhere between a maul and a scrum, but I do think the scrum is the better play for understanding the mechanics. Even off the lineout, you don't get as formal and defined a start to a maul as you do a scrum. You can even look at Hurts rolling off the back of the shove as more of a play where the 8 takes the ball from the base of the scrum.
i reckon it's actually more like try line defence with chop tackles except on the offensive end, basically throwing themselves at defenders legs to stop their momentum.
Scotsman I am a massive N.F.L have been since 1996 & have been a Rugby Union fan since 2010. I am a Scotland & Glasgow Warriors fan. N.F.L wise I am a Pittsburgh Steelers fan. It's just a pitty The Eagles have adopted this as Pittsburgh & Philadelphia mix like oil & water not well at all. But I think there is lots both sports can learn from each other. Rugby Union could learn a hell of a lot marketing wise from The N.F..L & Collage Football wise. The N.F.L could learn a lot on the pitch ( field) from Rugby Union.
Another key to understanding the Eagle's success with this play requires charting their 3rd down play selection. They very, very, very often use personnel substitutions on 3rd down to force the defense into nickle or dime coverage. They understand that getting a LB off the field makes it nearly impossible for any 3-down defenses to gap up properly. Any 4-down defenses are still don't have enough weight or twitch speed to be effective. IIRC, the 49ers were able to stop the Vikings on that play in large part because the Vikings allowed substitutions. If the Vikings had JJ they could have forced the 49ers into lighter personnel and then avoided substituting in order to prevent the 49ers from having enough mass on the field to gap up properly. Another mistake defenses keep making is discounting the quickness and length required in the B gap. You need to divert the guard by hitting him in the side of the shoulder and reaching to his waist. The 49ers should have had Bosa lined up in that B gap. Essentially every D that doesn't have a Warner to play the Palamalu role should line up their twitchiest heavy in the B gap to force the guard sideways and up on top of Kelce. Make the pile steeper to blunt the shove.
100% correct. If I’m a DC, the fundamental first thing that I’m doing is changing the mindset from “don’t let Kelce move forward” (which is what most defenses are clearly doing), and changing it towards “push Dickerson into Mailata.” In a weird way, I almost want to defend it like a stretch zone. Make it “get horizontal” (albeit, we’re talking about such tight quarters that such a statement immediately sounds asinine).
The no huddle one against Miami gave me chills. That D-line scrambled to the line knowing they were fucked and there was nothing they could do about it.
@Rekcha : Sounds very much like what Larry Bird used to do in the NBA. He would tell his opponents in advance what he was going to do and they still weren't able to stop him.
Hey, I am new to football can you explain to me a rule, if a team goes for this play is it possible to pull the quarterback from the field and replace him just for this play with a running back? or even a bench linemen?
Honestly as a rugby player you've got it spot on that the most important thing is that their hips are square. But getting the leverage advantage of getting your hips lower and driving up is also quite crucial. I would say the best way to defend it would be the same as stopping a pick and go in rugby: get low, hit hard, and keep driving no matter what
@@maskedman5657I mean it’s better than it used to be. Obviously still very different from rugby but a lot of tackling techniques are now more inspired by Rugby and other sports
As someone who also watches a fair amount of rugby, I actually think it's closer to a maul than a scrum, and I genuinely have no clue how teams would stop a maul before it goes a yard. But hey, I'm a winger, so what do I know about the dark things forwards call scrums and mauls
@@maskedman5657 you see a big difference in the early/mid 2010s with open field tackling especially. Technique wise, there as an emphasis on "cheek to cheek" or same side tackling. For basically the entirety of football, you were taught to tackle across the body. For example, if the ball carrier is on your left you'd step left leg to get your head across and hit with the right shoulder. In rugby, that's the quickest way to getting a knee to the noggin and (at best) a blood sub. In rugby, you tackle cheek to cheek, your (face) cheek to their (butt) cheek. I remember the Seahawks bringing in someone from rugby in OTAs and Training Camp to teach this technique, can't remember when though...but we talked about it a lot and how we might finally see less missed tackles on Sundays lol
@@CaptCKernel I remember. Pete Carroll has a whole tackling seminar on it. It's called hawk tackling. It's still on RUclips actually. It surprising me that the video was made like 10 years ago and I still see teams constantly missing tackles
As an Australian rugby league player who loves nfl. I always enjoy how the nfl brings in different sports tactics. I remember punters making a big deal about the changes in punting Australian players were bringing. All o could think was guys you haven’t seen nothing yet. There’s about 15 different kicks to be used in different spots. I recently saw Dixon was doing the banana kick now. So that’s a great little development.
We love Michael Dickson here in Seattle. He's been having a great year. Also, every time I've watched AFL I've really enjoyed it. I know you said you play rugby, but I hope that AFL survives and thrives. It doesn't matter that no one else plays it, its a damn fine game.
@@yhnujmik987 Australian Football isn't having any issues surviving. Its premier league (the AFL) is head and shoulders above any sports league in Australia. It has more participants locally than Rugby League and Union combined. Rugby league is doing fine in Australia too. Professional Soccer is struggling but participation numbers are the biggest of any football code. It's Rugby Union that is sadly struggling professionally and at the neglected grassroots.
It has always bothered me why more teams don't hire on Rugby players/trainers in football. They have a superhuman understanding on leverage and tackling that Pete Carroll himself used rugby tackling to come up with his Hawk tackling system. That video was made in the L.O.B. era in 2013 and it surprising the crap outta me that most people don't even use his system because I see tons of teams missing tackles left and right. And the video is still up on RUclips right now 😂
Eh. The rugby tackling wasn't brought in because it made the defense inherently better. It was brought in because it meant the LOB could run contact drills out of pads that way, giving them magnitudes more training time under contact than any other team. It wouldn't work know because the NFL has closed that loophole
hey there, rugby player here and i think you did a really good job analyzing how a scrum works and why it works! i also think an important thing to look at is the rugby maul which is far more like the brotherly shove in that the ball carrier is moved forward by the pack as opposed to a scrum where the ball comes out the back
Every so often when I see a runner go up the middle and turn around and then the entire team gets behind and pushes.... I'm like "why do they not maul more?"
@@zamboughnutsbecause the weakness of mauls is collapsing which is a penalty in rugby, hence the maul progress needs stopped and the ball released. In American football there's no restriction on a pull down where you sacrifice yards for downing, the other is a leg cut or a still and hit I.e a body is sacrificed to prevent forward by going for feet, the follow ups shift the drive usually sideways as more mass is required to go backwards. The other way is cheating in rugby which is a back take and pull where you come around, wrap around ball carrier waist and sink backwards
I think that the factor of Jalen Hurts squatting 600 lb isn’t inherently affecting the brotherly shove, but the play needs a physically strong QB to run it consistently. Getting dog piled on by the entire D is tough. You need a Justin Fields/Josh Allen/Jalen Hurts build to run it consistently.
Agreed, in one of the touchdowns they scored against the Dolphins, he was initially stopped just before the line and had to hold his ground, with the ball at full extension over his head, while Miami defenders slammed into him and his teammates gradually drove him forward. Incredible strength.
Def makes sense in those goal line scoring situations as oppose to short conversions in between the the 97 yards. But a someone mentioned and is supported by Brett's findings in the video, what Jalen offers in this 'wave of organized mass' isn't his hip drive. But his role to stay stabilized as the 'bag of money intact in the armored car' as he's driven forward while being pushed from behind.
I squat 600lbs and can tell you it does help the play. But not for the reason you think. It's not his leg strength that's the key here. Hes being pushed from the front by the defense and from the back by his team's out his torso under axial compression. When those two forces become assymetrical at all, a weaker player will crumple, fold, twist etc and waste the pushers force. Being very physically strong in the way hurts is allows him to keep his torso hard as rock so it can transfer the force of the pushers behind him.
Hey, I am new to football can you explain to me a rule, if a team goes for this play is it possible to pull the quarterback from the field and replace him just for this play with a running back? or even a bench linemen?
@@Tylar122 dunno much myself but I assume it telegraphs the play too much, as tbh I wonder if teams start to play all in for a counter if it opens up a more traditional qb l[ass play
@@Tylar122 You could use 11 offensive/defensive linemen on this one play, it's not illegal. The only issues are that linemen don't have great hands, so taking the snap would be hard, and that they don't have the same level of agility a QB or RB have
I use to work at Rhino Rugby (training equipment company) Richie was a consultant and designed the collision long range while he was working with the SA team. The guy is an absolute guru and a master of the break down. He’s also a pretty sound guy. Well done Eagles for using him in this way.
I have always said that play works because Mailata and Dickerson are 700 to 750 lbs of muscle playing next to Hall of Fame center Jason Kelce. Mailata's rugby background probably doesn't hurt. But it is a precision timing play as those guys have to move in unison on the snap. Its skill, power, and teamwork. It's a great football play.
Mailata's rugby background is a huge help. You put a big beefy front row guy against anyone not lined up square... It's gonna be over almost instantly. That's like, what us props are best at. Hookers are best at chirping, talking shit, and being short and angry. And I love them.
Mailata doesn't actually have a 'rugby' background. He has a rugby LEAGUE background. League doesn't have the competative ruck or scrum that this play is based on. That play comes from Rugby UNION.
@@jamesonevers3262 the entire QF was some of the best games I've ever seen. Ireland vs NZ and France vs SA, I think I only had time to breathe at the half and I was busy hydrating lmfao
As a high level Loosehead prop in the US who used to play Center, it brings me a lot of joy seeing our scrummaging technique implemented in the US to a certain degree. We’re taught backs flat and parallel to the ground, and knees at a 120° angle, so you were exactly correct with your analysis of it.
Honestly, this is the only time when "they're just jealous" is acceptable. There's no just thing as it doesn't count because "it's not a football play". It's legal and successful. Keep running it until it stops working.
You were spot on with this. Im here after the Eagles-49ers game. The 49ers stopped the Eagles on the tush push on 1st down, then the eagles lined up and ran it again on 2nd and scored with a bigger push.
I still think people are missing the main point, Its that the offense sets the tempo, ie says "go". In rugby "go" is signaled by the Ref. If one team in rugby got to decide when impact occurs, rugby scrums would be just as one sided.
Love to see football drawing from it's rugby roots. This looks like a hybrid between a lineout maul and a flying wedge (which was long since banned in Rugby Union). Since the offense initiates it at the line of scrimmage it looks much safer than a flying wedge, which involved a running start. Look up South Africa using a similar technique against England in the World Cup final back in 2019. It inolved similar coordination.
Rugby WC Final is today, if you give it a watch you will see this often off a lineout near the 5m - rolling maul. the difference is hurts isnt feeding the ball backwards to anyone and theyre just taking the yardage. now if only the nfl announcers would stop misusing "scrum"...
Eh, not sure about this. A maul has everyone stood up much higher, and is quite a different technique than the line are using. If we're actually going down this rabbit hole of comparison, in a way the line part of this play is more like a ruck. Obviously in rugby (union) a ruck would usually be over the ball at the bottom, so that's a bit different.
@@_purble yeah, I see what you mean. I was looking at it through a movement perspective, as you wouldn't be progressing the ball with a scrum. Obviously, the comparison to a scrum with Dickerson as the hooker was spot on and I got a little giddy for the analogy. I think you raise a good point though, dynamics wise it's very similar to a ruck down near the try line with hurts acting as the quick pick-n-go off the ruck. I love it when my two favorite things, which are so similar yet so different, come together like this. I was expecting a Steelers offense video and somehow we talking Rugby 🥹
@@_purblenot to mention the Attacking side has the running start. And a snap in NFL, both teams are flat footed and not moving at all. Just like a scrum. It’s literally a scrum.
As a rugby player, it made me happy that Brett used all the proper terminology and physics too. Top notch video, would love to see some rugby content but that’s unrealistic (maybe?)
It makes me happy to see rugby influence the NFL so much in recent years. A few years ago it was the Seahawks introducing proper tackling techniques to make their defense unstoppable and win a super bowl. Now we see the Eagles utilizing a scrum-like attitude to move the ball just as far as it needs to go when we have these 3rd/4th and 1s instead of just punting the ball like everyone else. Any rugby player will tell you its all about the technique, and the Eagles have that dialed in. Go birds!
What I find amazing is how the Scot realized that things that are deemed illegal in rugby scrums (angling in, turning the scrum, dropping down on your knees) are exactly what is possible in the nfl. That is what makes it so unstoppable in my eyes. In rugby the only way that angled scrums are beat is to angle yourself sending both guys sideways instead of straight.
Yeah but they also lose some of the stability of a rugby scrum. Interesting to see what would happen if teams attacked the hands and invited them to overextend without the support of the opposition pack to lean on. Like, if you could attack stability and then have 300+ lbs of defensive linemen applying downward force, you could probably flatten the shove and end up on top as the defensive team
As an American who LOVES International Test Rugby (yeah I know I’m like the only Yankee that does) this is the most intelligent take on this aspect of the Brotherly Shove. Hopefully this will help introduce more Americans to the beautiful sport of Rugby. It’s an incredibly interesting and exciting sport. Especially when you have the Tier 1 Nations hooking up for battle. Your videos are extremely well done my good man. Keep up the good work and sending you and yours my best. Cheers!
tbh as an Australian I do like the Eagles as of late, simply because they're willing to look outside their walls and take stuff from elsewhere, like getting a League Player in like Mailata in as one of their better ones, or getting a Punter taken from St Kilda (even if he bottled the super bowl), and now they're playing union style scrums, good to see tbh and always like when you see sports take from successful tactics from other sports
As a lifelong rugby player and prop but love my NFL find this really interesting. Took an US NFL down to Leicester Tigers for a rugby game and he immediately commented on how big the legs are on rugby forwards (lineman), a key thing is to keep those legs pumping. As Brett says get your initial alignment right, square on, then keep pumping and as the give go through that weak side. The Eagles have got that spot on. And don't ban it, get better at defending it.
My high school team used to run a variation of this play back in '08-'13 it was garunteed to get 3-4 yards. The play call could be called to run off any gap and the offensive line acted as if they were hitting that gap through their teammates while the qb and backs carried from behind.
having played rugby much of my life, the tush push is very similar to try line defence. Essentially dive as low as possible to stop their momentum and stop them getting past the gain line (yardage in football terms). I believe that's where the inspiration came from, as you can see mailata, dickerson and kelce dive so low it flattens the momentum giving such a huge hole for Hurts
11:24 Great snapshot of the way defenses are setting up incorrectly to handle this. The D Line was to have a direct line to Jalen because he is the ball carrier but in reality the Eagles O Line and WRs already know Jalen isn't going straight forward. Love this content. This is exactly why we come here to get the inside scoop as well as the tape knowledge. Thanks Brett. Keep up the hard work! 11:24
As someone from the UK who's played Rugby as a forward (2nd Row) this is less like a scrum and more like a driving Maul, where (mainly) the forwards drive forward in a more roughly organised wedge. It's different from a scrum because the scrum is very formalised, and you're effectively given an even start. A Maul isn't even. It's usually setup by one side, and it's much more difficult to defend a good maul if it's setup correctly. Just look at the Rugby teams with the best forwards and how they play a lineout (throw in from the side) close to the enemy try line. The similar kind of defence is required though in cases where you have no distance to play with, like here where it's usually 1 yard play. An equally organised pushback, or in football, I guess a correctly setup "collapse play", because that's banned as a solution to Mauls in Rugby, but I guess you could drive the line down if you did it correctly. But it needs to be trained. If the Eagles are training to Maul, the teams they're playing against need to be trained to counter it. Without specific training, the Eagles will always have an advantage they can exploit.
The thing that truly fascinates me about this play, is they almost never waste any time to get started. I’ve seen some this season, where maybe 1.4 seconds of time has passed since they get into formation and Hurtz just immediately snaps. I like they snap the ball so quick once they’re in formation. No delay or trying to psyche out the defense on when the snap comes, just snap it immediately.
In rugby, the quicker or faster scrum or maul off the mark (or line of scrimmage) will win the engagement 9/10. It makes sense it transfers over to football
As an English Rugby fan it's so cool to see Rugby being used in the NFL. Although I would actually say that the analogy of it being like a scrum is incorrect. It more closely resembles a maul where the ball carrier is behind his team mates who push the opposition defense in a spearhead formation to move forward. In scrums you're properly binded which changes things completely. Maybe they'll start using lateral passes in the NFL next!
Tbh I’m not even an eagles fan, but I can’t help but love the play. There’s no reason not to have it in football, that’s basically what happens when offensive lineman help to push the ball carrier forward in a scrum. If anything, plays like these help to spread the appeal of American football around the world. People are just upset because their team didn’t think to do it first 😂 Like look at 11:42, that’s an old school style football play we’re looking at, how can you not love this
Getting lower than the O-line is only half the battle; you need to stand them up as well. This means not only being lower, but also digging in to the ground to get enough stability and leverage to push the linemen upright. You don't want penetration unless the O-line is collapsing on itself/under you; you want to use them a tall impenetrable wall.
Another key thing the Eagles do is the O line's legs / feet are so close that they often overlap. One thing I didn't realize is that this Is how you set up for FGs. As an Eagles fan, I love it every time they run it. And it's pretty funny to see other teams try and often fail. As Siriani said, "If everyone could do it, everybody would do it."
I was talking to my friend who does college rugby earlier this week and once he pointed out the shoulder engagement in the push, it was pretty obvious. The Eagles go low and shove like footage of a maul.
HE missed a MASSIVE key. RIght Guard takes out the left leg of the defender over the center allowing the entire shove to pivot at the center point. IN Eagles case... to the left.
I like how you did the factor sponsorship. Shout out at the beginning, to acknowledge them, and not bored your audience at the start, then advertise later to fulfill your obligations to factor.
Even as a for,et rugby player and coach I found this extremely interesting. Kelsey does what is known in rugby terms as boring in as he engages the player directly opposite him at an angle which pushes that player into the next player and so on down the line. Meanwhile Kelsey’s own line is pushing straight ahead. He would make a great convert to the dark arts of the rugby front row but couldn’t afford the pay cut.
The real problem I have with this play (and most of the nfl rules) it’s how much it biases the offense. In this league the offense can push for an extra gain but the defense can’t push for an extra loss. It’s really annoying watching this team carry Hurts over the yards to gain over and over knowing that if a team actually blew this up and moved them backwards forward progress would keep the eagles from suffering a large loss. If the league actually wants to reward second effort shoves then that’s cool but please let the defense benefit from it too.
@@abcdefghijk890989098I think you're misunderstanding. OP is talking about forward progress. If the defense wants a tackle for loss, they need to stop them in the backfield rather than winning the tug of war with the offensive line
An interesting RUclips video caught my attention, and it mentioned about "Tush Push" by the Eagles. I didn't get what it means by the video, and I searched up with "tush push eagles." I watched a few videos about it, and THIS was the best analyzing and explaining video about this well dominating play. Thank you.
As a rugby fan, this represents a maul much more than a scrum. Also, i'm surprised at how loose and reckless a lot of the tackling/defending is in American Football.
Watching so many examples in a row, the Eagles discipline in their technique really does stand out. They also just look MASSIVE compared to these opposing D-lines. Great video!
One thank you for not wasting time during the video to Hark. Whoever your sponsor is that’s awesome. And two have not heard someone explain it so clearly excellent work.
Excellent episode! I could tell the Eagles were always penetrating on the left side, every time they run that play it's like a textbook example of the last time they ran it. But now I can understand the how and why of it thanks to you. I'll be watching to see if anyone is able to stop the tush push from here on out and if they do, how they do it.
I didn’t grow up playing or watching Gridiron football, I played and watched rugby. When I moved back to the US maybe 13 years ago and got into football I always yelled, just copy rugby when it was 4th and short. Glad someone heard me, finally.
@@LeahIsHereNow Washington spends all offseason building to beat the Eagles and spends a lot of time in the film room game planning for us. Also, Eric Bienemy has our defense's number and he is their OC. We actually had to score more points than I would have predicted we were capable of, against their defense.
Played Rugby for 10 years - most of them at prop, definitely agree that Rugby was more about finding the weakpoint rather than just pushing straight ahead - at least in a ruck/maul which in my opinion more closely resembles the tush push. Scrums are much more regimented and have way more rules that are basically designed to encourage a direct head on confrontation and penalise any play that threatens to destabilise it. Unless you had a ridiculous imbalance in weight and strength you're unlikely to go straight through your opponents in a rugby maul but if you can find a weakpoint on the flanks while having your forwards maintain integrity you could constantly have the defense on the back foot.
As a rugby guy, I can say you're the only guy I've seen who understands why that play is so successful. Actually I'm wondering why NFL teams havent consulted with you (or why the Eagles havent taken you off the market).
Spot on analysis. Pretty much everything my dad and I noticed. Will be interesting to see how teams try to circumvent this moving forward seeing how the offense will almost always have the upperhand due to the snap count.
I've been away from football for a while now and its my first time seeing this format from you, Brett. It's great to finally associate a face with the voice. Thanks for all you do!
I’m an Aussie who has lived in the US for 15 yrs. I’m amazed how NFL defensive teams don’t know how to tackle. Hire a rugby league tackling coach. Win a Super Bowl. Seriously.
@@jacob2808 I grew up on rugby union. When did the same high school the Ella brothers went to. Usually the best tacklers and tackle evaders came rugby union to rugby league.
That's funny because the Seahawks literally did that 11 years ago. OK, they didn't hire a rugby coach, but they brought a version of rugby tackling into the NFL and, combined with drafting a big and fast backfield, crafted one of the best defenses in NFL history and won a Super Bowl.
As a rugby player & coach with no idea how football works this is so fascinating to learn about. I think this play seems more reminiscent of a rugby maul than a scrum - one player holding onto the ball with the rest of the players driving to bring the ball carrier forward, against a flat line of defense. The most successful mauls also split the defense, catch players sideways, ect. Super interesting how some things really carry over, surprised this hasn't been done in the NFL already.
I’m a wine drinker of the NFL, you are a sommelier. I’m watching the MNF game now and noticing exactly what you’re saying. And it can be beaten if someone finds your damn video that has me watching that play differently.
As an active mens club rugby player (hooker, D2) inthe states honestly thinks this is more like a maul than a scrum. With that as my basis, you win the same way you beat a maul, being lower and driving harder or collapsing it before any momentum is made, which is what the 49ers did as Brett said in the video. Ideally I almost think you have d lineman attack Mailata and Dickerson head on directly with better body positioning and try and split them, making way for another defender to clear out Hurts. That said, i think its almost impossible to prevent a 1 yard gain when The Shove is executed perfectly
There's a rotational element, too. Kelce is the pivot, and the other two drive forward and turn inwards. Hurts pauses then pushes forward (with help) and glides over.
8:09 (4-year Rugby prop + Eagles fan) Those arguments for getting lower are well-founded, because in a scrum, the lower man wins, assuming he's driving. Allen lays down in front, and isn't driving, so he's not doing much except getting in the way. The better reason dropping your level might not work here is this isn't a scrum; no one's locked together, so the defense can just be pushed back almost individually, while the more focused Eagles offense can both drive more uniformly and the pack as a whole can flow and shift wherever the gaps are. It reminds me of both a scrum and this one play sometimes done near the goal line (the tryline) where the ball is grabbed from the last tackle (the ruck), preferably by a big guy (a forward) and, with support, immediately run into the defense to slowly gain distance (and repeat). It's the same focused drive for small, but sure distance, where the defense just runs into the defense and beats them with sheer force.
People saying “ban this play” is further proof how soft this league is getting. This is the highest echelon of the sport. You’re paid and thought of as the best, act like it and play like it.
Fred warner is such a crazy talented athlete. The ability to jump clear over 6’5+ grown 300 lb men and make a tackle with almost no running start is not appreciated enough
Speaking of new offensive plays that seem unstoppable, any chance we can get a video on these motions that teams have started to run that get their guys moving laterally and then continuing that momentum into the flat? First time I remember seeing it was Davante Adams running it in Green Bay in 21’. Seems like if the QB can read man off the motion it’s almost a guaranteed pick up of yards or score in the red zone. And then you have the variations of it, like when KC had Toney appear to motion into it and then cut back against the grain for a walk in touchdown. Basically, I’d love to see an analysis of this play because it’s starting to get really popular!!
@BrettKollmann Two things for your rugby/biomechanics observations: while the scrum is a good reference, the Brotherly Shove is much more equitable to to a ruck; secondly, the Eagles are not the first team to use rugby tactics. Pete Carroll brought in USA Rugby to teach proper tackling techniques to his DBs, thus birthing The Legion of Boom, and greatly diminishing their concussions. I do agree with you that if a defense were to line up in an expanded rugby front row/second row formation, (tight 4-3) with "wing forwards" to prevent Hurts from rolling around the edge, they would stand a better chance.
Always wondered why mauls and scrum style pushes were never implemented sooner. once Defences understand a rugby stance the brotherly shove will quickly be matched/outmatched by others
The players aren't complaining, just the media. Is it unfair for teams with Calvin Johnson to throw fades? Is it unfair for Mahomes to go on game-winning drives? Soon as the Eagles get something like this, it's an issue.
Two general observations. 1. The 49ers have a long-standing Rugby link through their association with Martin Johnson. 2. In terms of this play, there are scrum-like elements for sure, when you look at the comprehensive footage, but if comparing to Rugby Union, this play is also very much associable with the Maul (as opposed to the Ruck, where the ball is still live, but is in-play on the ground). The reason it has shared elements, is that whilst not interlocked, the O-Line is effectively in front of the ball carrier from the start, and the way they are playing the leverage and engagement is similar to the scrum. At the same time, the way that hurts is playing, aside from not initiating the contact with the opposing team, is consistent with the concepts of the Maul.
Great video, as a rugby player there are a couple errors about the scrum analogy. 10:06 Pushing at an angle in a scrum can be very effective, that’s why it’s illegal. Of course the hits should start head on, but crabbing to the side would give the rear defender more time to clamp on. This makes it more like a rugby maul defense.
You're right the only defence against this is to be square on. Then it becomes a group of one on one contests. I played rugby for many years in the scrum in England.
As an Eagles guy and a rugby fan for my whole life I can say (as other have done) that this is more of a maul than a scrum. Even then because they go off their feet it turns into a ruck where you can still drive forward. And I have to say I love the play and I love that the Eagle are the only ones that can pull it off. As to how to stop it, rugby provides the answer. It is illegal in rugby for a maul to be pulled down to the ground by the defence, although the offence attack can got to ground (but there are reason not to) and of course there is an offside line in rugby so you can’t come round to the back of the maul after it form (you have to maintain your original bind). The way a maul can be sacked is to drive through the middle which does happen but which is hard to pull off. Or you can do it illegally and pull the maul to the ground. So for this to be stopped the defence basically need to drop to the ground and get pushed from behind. You have to have multiple people do it as well, not just one player. And I agree that alignment is key; so straight . It won’t work all the time, but in those situations where the ball is more than a yard from where you want to go, I think it’s possible to stop it or limit forward progress. Like in rugby it won’t work all the time, but it might drop the success rate. I find it hilarious that nobody, despite all the analysis has figured this out. Props to you for pointing out how to do this
Nice analysis. This is more of a ruck situation than a scrum. Setting aside the actual situation rucking is done in rugby, a ruck would essentially be a coordinated move of different amounts of people in one or two rows with the goal of clearing space, pushing back and toppling bodies of the opposition. When I've seen the move I immediately thought "that is some good rucking, bad the other team is clueless how to defend this."
A question for me is whether the success of brotherly shove is part of taking advantage of a smaller, faster defense. While D-lineman are still big, there aren’t really any Shaun Rogers or Vince Wilforks or Casey Hampton at nosetackle right now it seems
It's also like a rolling maul but with the body position of a scrum, your view of how to stop it is largely correct but you can't match square you have to deal with that tip of the spear which in turn means you have to overcoming leaving space elsewhere it wouldn't take long to sus out and change the push point as soon as you were successfully stopped.
The brotherly shove is literally the qb sneak version of 2 wedge on set, we ran it a lot in my high school, the blocking scheme is exactly the same, we would just hand it off to a running back instead of the qb keeping it, which also allowed to sometimes run wedge reverse where we faked it to the normal ball carrier and pitched it instead to a different back
Brother this is awesome analysis, I would like to suggest this is probably closer to the maul than a scrum. Very similar, the main difference being scrums have much more rigid rules whereas the maul is more reactionary like football
its a battle of the shoulders and the low shoulders win...along with impeccable timing, superior strength and agility with a low center of gravity. The Driving maul in rugby is very difficult to stop or even slow down.
A technical rugby point: the rules say the front row of the scrum must go forward and stay square. Scrummagers can actually cheat by going in at an angle to apply pressure on a weak point and separate the opposing scrum. The best way to collapse a scrum is to get rid of your opponents horizontal back, either force them up or drive them down. This is more available in rugby because scrums are tightly bound together.
Great breakdown. How much does timing help the offense. Like, they know exactly when the snap is. The wrinkles are a fun thing. Teams are becoming so obsessed trying to stop it. They pitched for a TD at the end of last week. Eventually, they are going to do the same or something like it from like 45 yards out and get get a long TD. Maybe a Hurts fake and Godert out in a pattern something. Also, if they do eventually ban it, what do they ban? Just the push part. They won't be 93% without the push, but I bet that they could still be 85% to 87%.
Ritchie Gray is a legend. If you want kit that will make you better at tackling check out his gray tackling system kit - its tackle bags with added features like lower height, extra weight or grips. We got a full set a few years ago and it revolutionised the way our team teaches tackling and how good we are at it (number 1 defense in the country 2 years ago). He also regularly does talks at conventions - get along to see him or Andy Ryland from USA football if you can.
It looks like more of a scrum/rolling maul hybrid to me, as for stopping it you have to match it man for man, seeing guys jumping over the top is weird unless you can get hands on the ball it looks like a complete waste of time, plus I think what makes it doubly effective is the fact there's no initial contact before play starts, a scrum is setup before the ball is put in the scrum and also the once the ball is hooked, which never happens these days and is a whole other discussion, the scrum is over the ball with no one holding it and it's a straight up physical battle, also the fact that you just have to get the ball forward a yard or two to score or get the 1st down again makes even more difficult to stop. Not impossible but difficult, someone will come up with a way but it will be hard to train as they need to identify the ball carrier then work quickly together to stop him while countering the momentum of the pack.
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I’m a Kiwi and I’ve lived in US for the past 12 years and I always wondered why NFL never tries to take advantage of their offensive linemen and push through during scrummage. If they’re 1-2yards from the goal line. Finally, we have a NFL team that understands this
Best of luck to the All Black tonight, but we gotta cheer for the green and gold.
Go Bokkes!
🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Certain rugby formations aren't run in gridiron because they are already banned.
@@kaseywahlCongrats on the World Cup win mate. The Springboks played better and were the better team. Fair play to your nation. Back to back champion is an incredible achievement!
@@AnthonyRusso93oh ok. I didn’t know that, thanks. As for this “tush push” rule, it seemed very obvious to me. Also, American football allows blocking to create path for the attacking team. In rugby, we can’t do that and it’s against the rule and we call it “Shepherd”, which is kind of like obstruction. I know when it’s down to the wire, I’ve seen plenty of NFL and college football teams run the “lateral play”. All of rugby’s plays are run on lateral plays so if any NFL teams practice that a lil bit more, it’s effectiveness can be greatly increased as well.
With the rising tide of rugby players trickling into the NFL, no wonder this is now coming to light.
As a "rugby guy" I think the move has more in common to a driving maul from a line out than a scrum - fewer players than the 8 of a scrum with the ball carrier immediately behind the front impact players and the "binds" being less significant (though its still important that there is structure to both the driving maul and the "Brotherly shove")
google Zinzan Brooke if you havent heard of him.. All Black no 8 who along with Jonah Lomu the two All Blacks that would have 100% been NFL stars
He played for my hometown at the end of his career - Coventry .
This is what I’ve said to everyone I’ve spoken to about it, and it’s also why I think it should be low-key banned, unless the NFL bring in the same rules about Mauls that exist in rugby, because when one side is moving, and the other is static, that is when huge damage can occur.
Agree 100% that is a maul not a scrum
Came here to make this point, as it finds the weak point of the defensive line rather than forcing dominance of a scrum
As an Eagles fan, I did not want the strategy to be revealed. As a Brett Kollmann fan, I wanted this video to be made.
As a Brett kollman eagles fan you should’ve wanted him far away from this team 😂
Another point is that while the Eagles don’t interlock arms, they do interlock their feet. It’s ONE wall.
and as a kelce enjoyer i'm happy the moment jason is gone that 93% becomes like 70% even with the eagles but i wanna know not the eagles success rate but the current league success rate. and if its over 85% ban it for competitive reasons
@@volrosku.6075let the league find solutions, specific short yardage lineups, change in the lb size etc
It might give you solace to know that plenty of smart people in NFL teams were gonna dissect this whether or not Brett made a video everything gets figured out eventually in the NFL
I would say it's closer to a rugby maul then a scrum especially with how Jalen rolls around the edge as a lot of mauls end up doing.
It's somewhere between a maul and a scrum, but I do think the scrum is the better play for understanding the mechanics. Even off the lineout, you don't get as formal and defined a start to a maul as you do a scrum. You can even look at Hurts rolling off the back of the shove as more of a play where the 8 takes the ball from the base of the scrum.
i reckon it's actually more like try line defence with chop tackles except on the offensive end, basically throwing themselves at defenders legs to stop their momentum.
yeah its quite high when they start which is not scrum like...its a maul that collapses
Came here to say this. It’s like a collapsing maul. But very comparable and great analysis.
It's a weird mixture of a Maul, Scrum and Latch and it's pretty weird. Still works tho.
Vikings attempting to run an unstoppable play, and it’s the first time somebody correctly defends it is simply peak Vikings.
It’s not unstoppable for other teams many failed before the Vikings
But the fact they ran it correctly and it was the one time it was defended correctly is peak vikings
@@imhotepnixon they didn’t Kirk was far from the center giving Fred warner a chance
Correctly you stick to the center ass like jalen hurts does
Did you even watch the video lmao@@hamedismaeal1288
@@hamedismaeal1288exactly, Kirk is way off the center, the eagles are literally always very tight and compact, hindering Warner useless.
Big fan of Scottish Rugby. Absolutely mind boggling to hear that Richie Gray was helping the eagles with the brotherly shove. Small world lol
His accent seems to have changed somewhat since the last time I heard him talk 🤪
Scotsman
I am a massive N.F.L have been since 1996 & have been
a Rugby Union fan since 2010.
I am a Scotland &
Glasgow Warriors fan.
N.F.L wise I am
a Pittsburgh Steelers fan.
It's just a pitty The Eagles have adopted this as
Pittsburgh & Philadelphia mix like oil & water not well at all.
But I think there is lots both
sports can learn from each other.
Rugby Union could learn a hell of a lot marketing wise from
The N.F..L & Collage Football wise.
The N.F.L could learn a lot
on the pitch ( field) from
Rugby Union.
Even smaller world man I went to watch his high school games cause my bro played with him
It’s not Richie gray the player it’s a coach from the borders
Brett using the correct terms for Prop and Hooker brought me a huge amount of joy
Same. Really brought me back
Not being used to ruby player terms, I was caught off guard by "Hooker". I looked it up and it made much more sense lol
As a Hooker, I flat-out LOVE this play especially because my team executes it so well!
Yeah but he referred to it as a scrum when basically its a maul, this isn’t how a scrum works tho is it 😂
@@rossosborne9339unless you're south africa
Another key to understanding the Eagle's success with this play requires charting their 3rd down play selection. They very, very, very often use personnel substitutions on 3rd down to force the defense into nickle or dime coverage. They understand that getting a LB off the field makes it nearly impossible for any 3-down defenses to gap up properly. Any 4-down defenses are still don't have enough weight or twitch speed to be effective. IIRC, the 49ers were able to stop the Vikings on that play in large part because the Vikings allowed substitutions. If the Vikings had JJ they could have forced the 49ers into lighter personnel and then avoided substituting in order to prevent the 49ers from having enough mass on the field to gap up properly.
Another mistake defenses keep making is discounting the quickness and length required in the B gap. You need to divert the guard by hitting him in the side of the shoulder and reaching to his waist. The 49ers should have had Bosa lined up in that B gap. Essentially every D that doesn't have a Warner to play the Palamalu role should line up their twitchiest heavy in the B gap to force the guard sideways and up on top of Kelce. Make the pile steeper to blunt the shove.
Good insight
What great in site
Never thought of that! Nice!
100% correct.
If I’m a DC, the fundamental first thing that I’m doing is changing the mindset from “don’t let Kelce move forward” (which is what most defenses are clearly doing), and changing it towards “push Dickerson into Mailata.”
In a weird way, I almost want to defend it like a stretch zone. Make it “get horizontal” (albeit, we’re talking about such tight quarters that such a statement immediately sounds asinine).
W
I will never get over the clip of Kelce setting up for the Brotherly Shove and saying “You know what’s coming” and STILL converting
The no huddle one against Miami gave me chills. That D-line scrambled to the line knowing they were fucked and there was nothing they could do about it.
@Rekcha : Sounds very much like what Larry Bird used to do in the NBA. He would tell his opponents in advance what he was going to do and they still weren't able to stop him.
@@Matt-zl5dysearch jason kelce mic'd up vs cowboys. 2min 14 secs in
As a Raiders fan, I've seen Philip Rivers tell the Raiders exactly who he was going to throw to and still get the completion. A few times, actually.
@@Matt-zl5dyget fucked birds lmao 🤠
As a former prop in rugby, I just loooove the Eagles' shove. And this video explains it so well.
Hey, I am new to football can you explain to me a rule, if a team goes for this play is it possible to pull the quarterback from the field and replace him just for this play with a running back? or even a bench linemen?
@@Tylar122it is possible but it would take away from the fact that you could run different fake shoves where they back off and pass
@@haileyreebs makes sense thank you for explaining
Honestly as a rugby player you've got it spot on that the most important thing is that their hips are square. But getting the leverage advantage of getting your hips lower and driving up is also quite crucial. I would say the best way to defend it would be the same as stopping a pick and go in rugby: get low, hit hard, and keep driving no matter what
Since you're a rugby player. What is your opinion on the tackling being done in the NFL today? Good technique or Bad?
@@maskedman5657I mean it’s better than it used to be. Obviously still very different from rugby but a lot of tackling techniques are now more inspired by Rugby and other sports
As someone who also watches a fair amount of rugby, I actually think it's closer to a maul than a scrum, and I genuinely have no clue how teams would stop a maul before it goes a yard. But hey, I'm a winger, so what do I know about the dark things forwards call scrums and mauls
@@maskedman5657 you see a big difference in the early/mid 2010s with open field tackling especially. Technique wise, there as an emphasis on "cheek to cheek" or same side tackling.
For basically the entirety of football, you were taught to tackle across the body. For example, if the ball carrier is on your left you'd step left leg to get your head across and hit with the right shoulder. In rugby, that's the quickest way to getting a knee to the noggin and (at best) a blood sub. In rugby, you tackle cheek to cheek, your (face) cheek to their (butt) cheek. I remember the Seahawks bringing in someone from rugby in OTAs and Training Camp to teach this technique, can't remember when though...but we talked about it a lot and how we might finally see less missed tackles on Sundays lol
@@CaptCKernel I remember. Pete Carroll has a whole tackling seminar on it. It's called hawk tackling. It's still on RUclips actually. It surprising me that the video was made like 10 years ago and I still see teams constantly missing tackles
As an Australian rugby league player who loves nfl. I always enjoy how the nfl brings in different sports tactics. I remember punters making a big deal about the changes in punting Australian players were bringing. All o could think was guys you haven’t seen nothing yet. There’s about 15 different kicks to be used in different spots. I recently saw Dixon was doing the banana kick now. So that’s a great little development.
Manly Sea Eagles 🦅 🇺🇸 🇦🇺 🇳🇿
We love Michael Dickson here in Seattle. He's been having a great year. Also, every time I've watched AFL I've really enjoyed it. I know you said you play rugby, but I hope that AFL survives and thrives. It doesn't matter that no one else plays it, its a damn fine game.
NFL/CFL/AFL/NRL are top sports.@@yhnujmik987
@@yhnujmik987 Australian Football isn't having any issues surviving. Its premier league (the AFL) is head and shoulders above any sports league in Australia. It has more participants locally than Rugby League and Union combined.
Rugby league is doing fine in Australia too.
Professional Soccer is struggling but participation numbers are the biggest of any football code.
It's Rugby Union that is sadly struggling professionally and at the neglected grassroots.
@@PjRjHjwhat are you on? Rugby league alone has more participants than afl. And if you include touch rugby league, it has more than 3x the amount.
It has always bothered me why more teams don't hire on Rugby players/trainers in football. They have a superhuman understanding on leverage and tackling that Pete Carroll himself used rugby tackling to come up with his Hawk tackling system.
That video was made in the L.O.B. era in 2013 and it surprising the crap outta me that most people don't even use his system because I see tons of teams missing tackles left and right. And the video is still up on RUclips right now 😂
Teams didn’t go that in depth lol. They mainly just ripped the coverage scheme and personnel from the LOB.
Yet
Yeah well how’s that rugby training going for the Seahawks now 🤣
Eh. The rugby tackling wasn't brought in because it made the defense inherently better. It was brought in because it meant the LOB could run contact drills out of pads that way, giving them magnitudes more training time under contact than any other team.
It wouldn't work know because the NFL has closed that loophole
@@TheTeremaster wym
hey there, rugby player here and i think you did a really good job analyzing how a scrum works and why it works! i also think an important thing to look at is the rugby maul which is far more like the brotherly shove in that the ball carrier is moved forward by the pack as opposed to a scrum where the ball comes out the back
Every so often when I see a runner go up the middle and turn around and then the entire team gets behind and pushes.... I'm like "why do they not maul more?"
@@zamboughnutsbecause the weakness of mauls is collapsing which is a penalty in rugby, hence the maul progress needs stopped and the ball released. In American football there's no restriction on a pull down where you sacrifice yards for downing, the other is a leg cut or a still and hit I.e a body is sacrificed to prevent forward by going for feet, the follow ups shift the drive usually sideways as more mass is required to go backwards. The other way is cheating in rugby which is a back take and pull where you come around, wrap around ball carrier waist and sink backwards
I think that the factor of Jalen Hurts squatting 600 lb isn’t inherently affecting the brotherly shove, but the play needs a physically strong QB to run it consistently. Getting dog piled on by the entire D is tough. You need a Justin Fields/Josh Allen/Jalen Hurts build to run it consistently.
Agreed, in one of the touchdowns they scored against the Dolphins, he was initially stopped just before the line and had to hold his ground, with the ball at full extension over his head, while Miami defenders slammed into him and his teammates gradually drove him forward. Incredible strength.
Def makes sense in those goal line scoring situations as oppose to short conversions in between the the 97 yards. But a someone mentioned and is supported by Brett's findings in the video, what Jalen offers in this 'wave of organized mass' isn't his hip drive. But his role to stay stabilized as the 'bag of money intact in the armored car' as he's driven forward while being pushed from behind.
I squat 600lbs and can tell you it does help the play. But not for the reason you think. It's not his leg strength that's the key here. Hes being pushed from the front by the defense and from the back by his team's out his torso under axial compression. When those two forces become assymetrical at all, a weaker player will crumple, fold, twist etc and waste the pushers force. Being very physically strong in the way hurts is allows him to keep his torso hard as rock so it can transfer the force of the pushers behind him.
tom brady and the patriots ran the qb sneak to almost perfection its the execution of the line that makes it go
Josh Allen makes this work too. He gets at least 2 yards almost every time he tries it and doesn't slip.
Man as a rugby fan primarily I get so excited when people talk about the Tush push bcs it’s one of the areas of football I understand😂
I just want to thank Landon Dickerson and Jordan Mailata for easing some pain for Jason. Imagine 3 big dude lining up to push the center. Dang!
Hey, I am new to football can you explain to me a rule, if a team goes for this play is it possible to pull the quarterback from the field and replace him just for this play with a running back? or even a bench linemen?
@@Tylar122yep
@@Tylar122 dunno much myself but I assume it telegraphs the play too much, as tbh I wonder if teams start to play all in for a counter if it opens up a more traditional qb l[ass play
@@Tylar122 You could use 11 offensive/defensive linemen on this one play, it's not illegal. The only issues are that linemen don't have great hands, so taking the snap would be hard, and that they don't have the same level of agility a QB or RB have
@@texamurai Thanks for your reply
I use to work at Rhino Rugby (training equipment company) Richie was a consultant and designed the collision long range while he was working with the SA team.
The guy is an absolute guru and a master of the break down.
He’s also a pretty sound guy. Well done Eagles for using him in this way.
It’s always so much more interesting understanding the nuances of a play like this. Thank you for being the first I’ve seen to do so.
I have always said that play works because Mailata and Dickerson are 700 to 750 lbs of muscle playing next to Hall of Fame center Jason Kelce. Mailata's rugby background probably doesn't hurt.
But it is a precision timing play as those guys have to move in unison on the snap. Its skill, power, and teamwork. It's a great football play.
Mailata's rugby background is a huge help. You put a big beefy front row guy against anyone not lined up square... It's gonna be over almost instantly. That's like, what us props are best at. Hookers are best at chirping, talking shit, and being short and angry. And I love them.
Mailata doesn't actually have a 'rugby' background. He has a rugby LEAGUE background. League doesn't have the competative ruck or scrum that this play is based on. That play comes from Rugby UNION.
@@johnchisholm741 did he ever play that style rugby at any level? He looks purpose built for it
@@joeweaver9913no, rugby union is surprisingly not very popular in Australia despite the World Cup victories.
@@johnchisholm741came here to say the same. He’s probably more just familiar with a scrum than experienced in it.
Brett x Rugby is the crossover we need
RWC Final today, imagine if Brett and EJ streamed their reactions to it
Wish they could’ve watched the quarters with New Zealand Ireland, and France South Africa
@@CaptCKernelyes please
Was so happy he dived into Rugby as much as he did, more Americans need to learn about Rugby Union its sooo good
@@jamesonevers3262 the entire QF was some of the best games I've ever seen. Ireland vs NZ and France vs SA, I think I only had time to breathe at the half and I was busy hydrating lmfao
As a high level Loosehead prop in the US who used to play Center, it brings me a lot of joy seeing our scrummaging technique implemented in the US to a certain degree. We’re taught backs flat and parallel to the ground, and knees at a 120° angle, so you were exactly correct with your analysis of it.
people play rugby is america?
@@Cricketdude69 the Rugby World Cup will be there in 2031.
Love the Brotherly Shove. Hate the talk about how it’s not a football play. Very insightful video, Brett.
Neither is the kneel down. Talk about ugly play.
Honestly, this is the only time when "they're just jealous" is acceptable.
There's no just thing as it doesn't count because "it's not a football play".
It's legal and successful. Keep running it until it stops working.
This and the kneel down aren't football plays, they're technicalities exploiting the rules
Didn't they used to run plays like this a lot? Like before the quarterback really threw the ball
It is the most football play in a long while
You were spot on with this. Im here after the Eagles-49ers game. The 49ers stopped the Eagles on the tush push on 1st down, then the eagles lined up and ran it again on 2nd and scored with a bigger push.
I still think people are missing the main point, Its that the offense sets the tempo, ie says "go". In rugby "go" is signaled by the Ref.
If one team in rugby got to decide when impact occurs, rugby scrums would be just as one sided.
Great point.
This would be a great point if it wasn’t like this for every play including for dbs guarding receivers
Love to see football drawing from it's rugby roots. This looks like a hybrid between a lineout maul and a flying wedge (which was long since banned in Rugby Union).
Since the offense initiates it at the line of scrimmage it looks much safer than a flying wedge, which involved a running start.
Look up South Africa using a similar technique against England in the World Cup final back in 2019. It inolved similar coordination.
Rugby WC Final is today, if you give it a watch you will see this often off a lineout near the 5m - rolling maul. the difference is hurts isnt feeding the ball backwards to anyone and theyre just taking the yardage. now if only the nfl announcers would stop misusing "scrum"...
Yeah this is a maul, the problem is NFL commentstors know scrum, they don't know maul
Eh, not sure about this. A maul has everyone stood up much higher, and is quite a different technique than the line are using. If we're actually going down this rabbit hole of comparison, in a way the line part of this play is more like a ruck. Obviously in rugby (union) a ruck would usually be over the ball at the bottom, so that's a bit different.
@@_purble yeah, I see what you mean. I was looking at it through a movement perspective, as you wouldn't be progressing the ball with a scrum. Obviously, the comparison to a scrum with Dickerson as the hooker was spot on and I got a little giddy for the analogy. I think you raise a good point though, dynamics wise it's very similar to a ruck down near the try line with hurts acting as the quick pick-n-go off the ruck.
I love it when my two favorite things, which are so similar yet so different, come together like this. I was expecting a Steelers offense video and somehow we talking Rugby 🥹
@@_purblenot to mention the Attacking side has the running start. And a snap in NFL, both teams are flat footed and not moving at all. Just like a scrum. It’s literally a scrum.
@@CaptCKernelAustralian samoa. Jordan Mailata is the best LT in the League. 😉
As a rugby player, it made me happy that Brett used all the proper terminology and physics too. Top notch video, would love to see some rugby content but that’s unrealistic (maybe?)
It makes me happy to see rugby influence the NFL so much in recent years. A few years ago it was the Seahawks introducing proper tackling techniques to make their defense unstoppable and win a super bowl. Now we see the Eagles utilizing a scrum-like attitude to move the ball just as far as it needs to go when we have these 3rd/4th and 1s instead of just punting the ball like everyone else. Any rugby player will tell you its all about the technique, and the Eagles have that dialed in. Go birds!
What I find amazing is how the Scot realized that things that are deemed illegal in rugby scrums (angling in, turning the scrum, dropping down on your knees) are exactly what is possible in the nfl. That is what makes it so unstoppable in my eyes. In rugby the only way that angled scrums are beat is to angle yourself sending both guys sideways instead of straight.
Yeah but they also lose some of the stability of a rugby scrum. Interesting to see what would happen if teams attacked the hands and invited them to overextend without the support of the opposition pack to lean on. Like, if you could attack stability and then have 300+ lbs of defensive linemen applying downward force, you could probably flatten the shove and end up on top as the defensive team
Can we get a Kelly green Brotherly Shove T-shirt in addition to the Philly Special Hoodie?
As an American who LOVES International Test Rugby (yeah I know I’m like the only Yankee that does) this is the most intelligent take on this aspect of the Brotherly Shove. Hopefully this will help introduce more Americans to the beautiful sport of Rugby. It’s an incredibly interesting and exciting sport. Especially when you have the Tier 1 Nations hooking up for battle. Your videos are extremely well done my good man. Keep up the good work and sending you and yours my best. Cheers!
tbh as an Australian I do like the Eagles as of late, simply because they're willing to look outside their walls and take stuff from elsewhere, like getting a League Player in like Mailata in as one of their better ones, or getting a Punter taken from St Kilda (even if he bottled the super bowl), and now they're playing union style scrums, good to see tbh and always like when you see sports take from successful tactics from other sports
As a lifelong rugby player and prop but love my NFL find this really interesting. Took an US NFL down to Leicester Tigers for a rugby game and he immediately commented on how big the legs are on rugby forwards (lineman), a key thing is to keep those legs pumping. As Brett says get your initial alignment right, square on, then keep pumping and as the give go through that weak side. The Eagles have got that spot on. And don't ban it, get better at defending it.
My high school team used to run a variation of this play back in '08-'13 it was garunteed to get 3-4 yards. The play call could be called to run off any gap and the offensive line acted as if they were hitting that gap through their teammates while the qb and backs carried from behind.
having played rugby much of my life, the tush push is very similar to try line defence.
Essentially dive as low as possible to stop their momentum and stop them getting past the gain line (yardage in football terms). I believe that's where the inspiration came from, as you can see mailata, dickerson and kelce dive so low it flattens the momentum giving such a huge hole for Hurts
11:24
Great snapshot of the way defenses are setting up incorrectly to handle this. The D Line was to have a direct line to Jalen because he is the ball carrier but in reality the Eagles O Line and WRs already know Jalen isn't going straight forward.
Love this content. This is exactly why we come here to get the inside scoop as well as the tape knowledge. Thanks Brett. Keep up the hard work! 11:24
As someone from the UK who's played Rugby as a forward (2nd Row) this is less like a scrum and more like a driving Maul, where (mainly) the forwards drive forward in a more roughly organised wedge. It's different from a scrum because the scrum is very formalised, and you're effectively given an even start. A Maul isn't even. It's usually setup by one side, and it's much more difficult to defend a good maul if it's setup correctly. Just look at the Rugby teams with the best forwards and how they play a lineout (throw in from the side) close to the enemy try line. The similar kind of defence is required though in cases where you have no distance to play with, like here where it's usually 1 yard play. An equally organised pushback, or in football, I guess a correctly setup "collapse play", because that's banned as a solution to Mauls in Rugby, but I guess you could drive the line down if you did it correctly. But it needs to be trained. If the Eagles are training to Maul, the teams they're playing against need to be trained to counter it. Without specific training, the Eagles will always have an advantage they can exploit.
The thing that truly fascinates me about this play, is they almost never waste any time to get started. I’ve seen some this season, where maybe 1.4 seconds of time has passed since they get into formation and Hurtz just immediately snaps. I like they snap the ball so quick once they’re in formation. No delay or trying to psyche out the defense on when the snap comes, just snap it immediately.
In rugby, the quicker or faster scrum or maul off the mark (or line of scrimmage) will win the engagement 9/10. It makes sense it transfers over to football
As an English Rugby fan it's so cool to see Rugby being used in the NFL. Although I would actually say that the analogy of it being like a scrum is incorrect. It more closely resembles a maul where the ball carrier is behind his team mates who push the opposition defense in a spearhead formation to move forward. In scrums you're properly binded which changes things completely.
Maybe they'll start using lateral passes in the NFL next!
Hurts and the eagles o line can do this play without the push from behind. It's great either way
Tbh I’m not even an eagles fan, but I can’t help but love the play. There’s no reason not to have it in football, that’s basically what happens when offensive lineman help to push the ball carrier forward in a scrum.
If anything, plays like these help to spread the appeal of American football around the world. People are just upset because their team didn’t think to do it first 😂
Like look at 11:42, that’s an old school style football play we’re looking at, how can you not love this
Getting lower than the O-line is only half the battle; you need to stand them up as well. This means not only being lower, but also digging in to the ground to get enough stability and leverage to push the linemen upright. You don't want penetration unless the O-line is collapsing on itself/under you; you want to use them a tall impenetrable wall.
Another key thing the Eagles do is the O line's legs / feet are so close that they often overlap. One thing I didn't realize is that this Is how you set up for FGs. As an Eagles fan, I love it every time they run it. And it's pretty funny to see other teams try and often fail. As Siriani said, "If everyone could do it, everybody would do it."
I was talking to my friend who does college rugby earlier this week and once he pointed out the shoulder engagement in the push, it was pretty obvious. The Eagles go low and shove like footage of a maul.
HE missed a MASSIVE key. RIght Guard takes out the left leg of the defender over the center allowing the entire shove to pivot at the center point. IN Eagles case... to the left.
I like how you did the factor sponsorship.
Shout out at the beginning, to acknowledge them, and not bored your audience at the start, then advertise later to fulfill your obligations to factor.
“How Brett kollmann cursed the eagles”
Even as a for,et rugby player and coach I found this extremely interesting. Kelsey does what is known in rugby terms as boring in as he engages the player directly opposite him at an angle which pushes that player into the next player and so on down the line. Meanwhile Kelsey’s own line is pushing straight ahead. He would make a great convert to the dark arts of the rugby front row but couldn’t afford the pay cut.
The real problem I have with this play (and most of the nfl rules) it’s how much it biases the offense. In this league the offense can push for an extra gain but the defense can’t push for an extra loss. It’s really annoying watching this team carry Hurts over the yards to gain over and over knowing that if a team actually blew this up and moved them backwards forward progress would keep the eagles from suffering a large loss.
If the league actually wants to reward second effort shoves then that’s cool but please let the defense benefit from it too.
It is my number one complaint with the sport, it so unbeliavably unfair that defenders cant do as the offence does.
The defense is allowed to push each other. Just not on field goal attempts
@@abcdefghijk890989098 i meant the forward progress rule vs pushing the running back, for clarity.
@@abcdefghijk890989098I think you're misunderstanding. OP is talking about forward progress. If the defense wants a tackle for loss, they need to stop them in the backfield rather than winning the tug of war with the offensive line
Cry more plz 🙏🏽
An interesting RUclips video caught my attention, and it mentioned about "Tush Push" by the Eagles. I didn't get what it means by the video, and I searched up with "tush push eagles." I watched a few videos about it, and THIS was the best analyzing and explaining video about this well dominating play. Thank you.
As a rugby fan, this represents a maul much more than a scrum. Also, i'm surprised at how loose and reckless a lot of the tackling/defending is in American Football.
Watching so many examples in a row, the Eagles discipline in their technique really does stand out. They also just look MASSIVE compared to these opposing D-lines. Great video!
Houston tried it and cj stroud got crushed and they didn't do it again lol
Just placed my first factor order 🙂 Looking forward to it! Thanks for the great video as always Brett!
One thank you for not wasting time during the video to Hark. Whoever your sponsor is that’s awesome. And two have not heard someone explain it so clearly excellent work.
Excellent episode! I could tell the Eagles were always penetrating on the left side, every time they run that play it's like a textbook example of the last time they ran it. But now I can understand the how and why of it thanks to you. I'll be watching to see if anyone is able to stop the tush push from here on out and if they do, how they do it.
I didn’t grow up playing or watching Gridiron football, I played and watched rugby. When I moved back to the US maybe 13 years ago and got into football I always yelled, just copy rugby when it was 4th and short. Glad someone heard me, finally.
Eagles fan. Absolutely correct sir. I saw the dominance of Dickerson over and over and knew that is where it was gong. That guy is a monster.
That game against the commanders was really rough for y’all yesterday. What happened?
@@LeahIsHereNow Washington spends all offseason building to beat the Eagles and spends a lot of time in the film room game planning for us. Also, Eric Bienemy has our defense's number and he is their OC. We actually had to score more points than I would have predicted we were capable of, against their defense.
Played Rugby for 10 years - most of them at prop, definitely agree that Rugby was more about finding the weakpoint rather than just pushing straight ahead - at least in a ruck/maul which in my opinion more closely resembles the tush push. Scrums are much more regimented and have way more rules that are basically designed to encourage a direct head on confrontation and penalise any play that threatens to destabilise it.
Unless you had a ridiculous imbalance in weight and strength you're unlikely to go straight through your opponents in a rugby maul but if you can find a weakpoint on the flanks while having your forwards maintain integrity you could constantly have the defense on the back foot.
As a rugby guy, I can say you're the only guy I've seen who understands why that play is so successful. Actually I'm wondering why NFL teams havent consulted with you (or why the Eagles havent taken you off the market).
Spot on analysis. Pretty much everything my dad and I noticed. Will be interesting to see how teams try to circumvent this moving forward seeing how the offense will almost always have the upperhand due to the snap count.
Technical breakdowns are what I live for in football
Which channels are the best?
I've been away from football for a while now and its my first time seeing this format from you, Brett. It's great to finally associate a face with the voice. Thanks for all you do!
I’m an Aussie who has lived in the US for 15 yrs. I’m amazed how NFL defensive teams don’t know how to tackle. Hire a rugby league tackling coach. Win a Super Bowl. Seriously.
Rugby league? Why not union!
@@jacob2808 I grew up on rugby union. When did the same high school the Ella brothers went to. Usually the best tacklers and tackle evaders came rugby union to rugby league.
That's funny because the Seahawks literally did that 11 years ago. OK, they didn't hire a rugby coach, but they brought a version of rugby tackling into the NFL and, combined with drafting a big and fast backfield, crafted one of the best defenses in NFL history and won a Super Bowl.
As a rugby player & coach with no idea how football works this is so fascinating to learn about. I think this play seems more reminiscent of a rugby maul than a scrum - one player holding onto the ball with the rest of the players driving to bring the ball carrier forward, against a flat line of defense. The most successful mauls also split the defense, catch players sideways, ect. Super interesting how some things really carry over, surprised this hasn't been done in the NFL already.
this aged well...
I’m a wine drinker of the NFL, you are a sommelier. I’m watching the MNF game now and noticing exactly what you’re saying. And it can be beaten if someone finds your damn video that has me watching that play differently.
Jason is hilarious 😂😂😂
In rugby you still have to tackle properly. You can literally apply any rugby fundamental to American football and improve the team.
AAaaand it got stopped. it turns out having a 350 pound Samoan on the nose is a big help
As a french man who loves American football and rugby (union) and a regular viewer of your content, I really enjoyed that analysis. Thanks.
As an active mens club rugby player (hooker, D2) inthe states honestly thinks this is more like a maul than a scrum. With that as my basis, you win the same way you beat a maul, being lower and driving harder or collapsing it before any momentum is made, which is what the 49ers did as Brett said in the video. Ideally I almost think you have d lineman attack Mailata and Dickerson head on directly with better body positioning and try and split them, making way for another defender to clear out Hurts. That said, i think its almost impossible to prevent a 1 yard gain when The Shove is executed perfectly
There's a rotational element, too. Kelce is the pivot, and the other two drive forward and turn inwards. Hurts pauses then pushes forward (with help) and glides over.
Well, they are stoppable.
8:09
(4-year Rugby prop + Eagles fan) Those arguments for getting lower are well-founded, because in a scrum, the lower man wins, assuming he's driving. Allen lays down in front, and isn't driving, so he's not doing much except getting in the way. The better reason dropping your level might not work here is this isn't a scrum; no one's locked together, so the defense can just be pushed back almost individually, while the more focused Eagles offense can both drive more uniformly and the pack as a whole can flow and shift wherever the gaps are.
It reminds me of both a scrum and this one play sometimes done near the goal line (the tryline) where the ball is grabbed from the last tackle (the ruck), preferably by a big guy (a forward) and, with support, immediately run into the defense to slowly gain distance (and repeat). It's the same focused drive for small, but sure distance, where the defense just runs into the defense and beats them with sheer force.
People saying “ban this play” is further proof how soft this league is getting. This is the highest echelon of the sport. You’re paid and thought of as the best, act like it and play like it.
Fred warner is such a crazy talented athlete. The ability to jump clear over 6’5+ grown 300 lb men and make a tackle with almost no running start is not appreciated enough
Best football analysis channel I've found. Great job, Brett.
Speaking of new offensive plays that seem unstoppable, any chance we can get a video on these motions that teams have started to run that get their guys moving laterally and then continuing that momentum into the flat? First time I remember seeing it was Davante Adams running it in Green Bay in 21’.
Seems like if the QB can read man off the motion it’s almost a guaranteed pick up of yards or score in the red zone. And then you have the variations of it, like when KC had Toney appear to motion into it and then cut back against the grain for a walk in touchdown.
Basically, I’d love to see an analysis of this play because it’s starting to get really popular!!
Wanna see a dominate DT Piano drill tf outta Jason Kelce for coming in so low to begin with 😂
Maybe the Giants can pull it off
Then hurts go left toward Landon and mailata like usual
@@maskedman5657🤣🤣🤣
Yeah right
Dominant
@BrettKollmann Two things for your rugby/biomechanics observations: while the scrum is a good reference, the Brotherly Shove is much more equitable to to a ruck; secondly, the Eagles are not the first team to use rugby tactics. Pete Carroll brought in USA Rugby to teach proper tackling techniques to his DBs, thus birthing The Legion of Boom, and greatly diminishing their concussions.
I do agree with you that if a defense were to line up in an expanded rugby front row/second row formation, (tight 4-3) with "wing forwards" to prevent Hurts from rolling around the edge, they would stand a better chance.
Love your content, Brett.
Always wondered why mauls and scrum style pushes were never implemented sooner. once Defences understand a rugby stance the brotherly shove will quickly be matched/outmatched by others
New position coach in the NFL: Tush-push coach
And with time every team will know how to play and defend this better.
I don’t know what get me more excited: the push or hearing “false start, everyone but the center”
The players aren't complaining, just the media. Is it unfair for teams with Calvin Johnson to throw fades? Is it unfair for Mahomes to go on game-winning drives? Soon as the Eagles get something like this, it's an issue.
They want their darling 49ers and dallas to master it then we will hear nothing about it.
Two general observations.
1. The 49ers have a long-standing Rugby link through their association with Martin Johnson.
2. In terms of this play, there are scrum-like elements for sure, when you look at the comprehensive footage, but if comparing to Rugby Union, this play is also very much associable with the Maul (as opposed to the Ruck, where the ball is still live, but is in-play on the ground). The reason it has shared elements, is that whilst not interlocked, the O-Line is effectively in front of the ball carrier from the start, and the way they are playing the leverage and engagement is similar to the scrum. At the same time, the way that hurts is playing, aside from not initiating the contact with the opposing team, is consistent with the concepts of the Maul.
Great video, as a rugby player there are a couple errors about the scrum analogy. 10:06 Pushing at an angle in a scrum can be very effective, that’s why it’s illegal. Of course the hits should start head on, but crabbing to the side would give the rear defender more time to clamp on. This makes it more like a rugby maul defense.
You're right the only defence against this is to be square on. Then it becomes a group of one on one contests. I played rugby for many years in the scrum in England.
As an Eagles guy and a rugby fan for my whole life I can say (as other have done) that this is more of a maul than a scrum. Even then because they go off their feet it turns into a ruck where you can still drive forward. And I have to say I love the play and I love that the Eagle are the only ones that can pull it off. As to how to stop it, rugby provides the answer. It is illegal in rugby for a maul to be pulled down to the ground by the defence, although the offence attack can got to ground (but there are reason not to) and of course there is an offside line in rugby so you can’t come round to the back of the maul after it form (you have to maintain your original bind). The way a maul can be sacked is to drive through the middle which does happen but which is hard to pull off. Or you can do it illegally and pull the maul to the ground. So for this to be stopped the defence basically need to drop to the ground and get pushed from behind. You have to have multiple people do it as well, not just one player. And I agree that alignment is key; so straight . It won’t work all the time, but in those situations where the ball is more than a yard from where you want to go, I think it’s possible to stop it or limit forward progress. Like in rugby it won’t work all the time, but it might drop the success rate. I find it hilarious that nobody, despite all the analysis has figured this out. Props to you for pointing out how to do this
Nice analysis. This is more of a ruck situation than a scrum. Setting aside the actual situation rucking is done in rugby, a ruck would essentially be a coordinated move of different amounts of people in one or two rows with the goal of clearing space, pushing back and toppling bodies of the opposition. When I've seen the move I immediately thought "that is some good rucking, bad the other team is clueless how to defend this."
A question for me is whether the success of brotherly shove is part of taking advantage of a smaller, faster defense.
While D-lineman are still big, there aren’t really any Shaun Rogers or Vince Wilforks or Casey Hampton at nosetackle right now it seems
The Bengals have DJ reader… that’s about it
It's also like a rolling maul but with the body position of a scrum, your view of how to stop it is largely correct but you can't match square you have to deal with that tip of the spear which in turn means you have to overcoming leaving space elsewhere it wouldn't take long to sus out and change the push point as soon as you were successfully stopped.
The brotherly shove is literally the qb sneak version of 2 wedge on set, we ran it a lot in my high school, the blocking scheme is exactly the same, we would just hand it off to a running back instead of the qb keeping it, which also allowed to sometimes run wedge reverse where we faked it to the normal ball carrier and pitched it instead to a different back
Brother this is awesome analysis, I would like to suggest this is probably closer to the maul than a scrum. Very similar, the main difference being scrums have much more rigid rules whereas the maul is more reactionary like football
its a battle of the shoulders and the low shoulders win...along with impeccable timing, superior strength and agility with a low center of gravity. The Driving maul in rugby is very difficult to stop or even slow down.
A technical rugby point: the rules say the front row of the scrum must go forward and stay square.
Scrummagers can actually cheat by going in at an angle to apply pressure on a weak point and separate the opposing scrum.
The best way to collapse a scrum is to get rid of your opponents horizontal back, either force them up or drive them down. This is more available in rugby because scrums are tightly bound together.
As a Rugby fan in the US, this brings me joy
Great breakdown. How much does timing help the offense. Like, they know exactly when the snap is. The wrinkles are a fun thing. Teams are becoming so obsessed trying to stop it. They pitched for a TD at the end of last week. Eventually, they are going to do the same or something like it from like 45 yards out and get get a long TD. Maybe a Hurts fake and Godert out in a pattern something. Also, if they do eventually ban it, what do they ban? Just the push part. They won't be 93% without the push, but I bet that they could still be 85% to 87%.
Ritchie Gray is a legend. If you want kit that will make you better at tackling check out his gray tackling system kit - its tackle bags with added features like lower height, extra weight or grips. We got a full set a few years ago and it revolutionised the way our team teaches tackling and how good we are at it (number 1 defense in the country 2 years ago). He also regularly does talks at conventions - get along to see him or Andy Ryland from USA football if you can.
It looks like more of a scrum/rolling maul hybrid to me, as for stopping it you have to match it man for man, seeing guys jumping over the top is weird unless you can get hands on the ball it looks like a complete waste of time, plus I think what makes it doubly effective is the fact there's no initial contact before play starts, a scrum is setup before the ball is put in the scrum and also the once the ball is hooked, which never happens these days and is a whole other discussion, the scrum is over the ball with no one holding it and it's a straight up physical battle, also the fact that you just have to get the ball forward a yard or two to score or get the 1st down again makes even more difficult to stop. Not impossible but difficult, someone will come up with a way but it will be hard to train as they need to identify the ball carrier then work quickly together to stop him while countering the momentum of the pack.