Zach was quick to respond to questions even when it wasn't really his job. It is so much easier as a client to speak to the same person all the way through the process. After I was bounced between various representatives working on different aspects of my loan I would go back to Zach to put this lengthy process in perspective. It was easy to be lost in all the paperwork but he kept my frustration level in check and was pleasantly helpful. Thanks, Zach
Zach was quick to respond to questions even when it wasn't really his job. It is so much easier as a client to speak to the same person all the way through the process. After I was bounced between various representatives working on different aspects of my loan I would go back to Zach to put this lengthy process in perspective. It was easy to be lost in all the paperwork but he kept my frustration level in check and was pleasantly helpful. Thanks, Zach
He was only caught because he was found to have changed / edited patients notes on the computer. This case completely changed working practices in the NHS so that it was unlikely ever to happen again . However we still find medics practicing when they are clearly causing harm. Breaking down this God complex is fundamental to patient safety and listening to whistleblowers who are so often afraid to speak out for fear of losing their job . Thank you for bringing up this case it is so important for patient safety that Harold Shipman is not forgotten.
Hi Maria, there seems to be an ongoing issue in the UK about the medical profession covering for its own. If you look at what happened in the Gosport War Memorial Hospital, where a Dr Jane Barton was prescribing lethal doses of diamorphine for people with fractures and other non-life threatening conditions - 600+ lives were "shortened". She was found to have committed medical malpractice by the medical register in 2010 but was not struck off and instead was allowed to resign!
@Sunflora Maria it's particularly bad in the UK. The system there allows Shipmans to operate with relative impunity, backed by a very powerful professional institution that's hell-bent upon protecting its members - even those that happen to be deranged killers. Take a look at the case of Dr Jane Barton, who had a particular penchant for putting as many patients as she could on lethal doses of diamorphine and midazolam. Many more succumbed to this than to Shipman's deadly prescriptions. Barton was allowed to resign. Most people find it morally acceptable - and even desirable - for a doctor to use their professional judgement to quietly and informally give a very high dosage of a medication like diamorphine in order to bring the suffering of a terminally ill patient to a permanent close. The problem with this is that it provides a near-perfect cover for killers to act with impunity.
I really didn't like the way a consultant was standing over my mother when the question of a DNR on my dad came up. He was basically telling her she had to do the DNR as a matter of quality of life, and "value", very impatient and declarative, not at all like consulting her and asking for her opinion. I raised the philosophical (and theological) problem with the language of value and worth in relation to human life and individuals, that that's how you talk about commodities not human beings, that terminology reveals assumptions and false beliefs, but in the end my mum rolled over out of deference to his professional authority. And we see that Thatcherite, Singerian, "Utilitarian" mentality playing out now in the COVID pandemic, with the Tory government effectively letting people die because they don't see the lives of the poor and the old as _worth_ saving.
When you think about it, some doctors have been shown during war time to murder patients and some in peacetime have been very eager to experiment with defenceless patients. It's what Dr. Grande says is the god complex, coupled with a touch of narcissism.
Do ppl who have God-complexes typically commit suicide? Just a question because my father told me of someone he knew that belonged to our faith, in the way my dad described him, he seemed narcissistic and had the God-complex, too because of his attitude. He was an elder in the church and seemed to "Lord" it over everyone. Even little things he really criticized about, like the way a family sits around the table. He killed himself, too.
If you're a Doctor or a Tenured academic you can do anything without losing your job but if you pack deliveries for Amazon expect daily breathalyser tests
"Welcome to my Scientifically Informed Insider Look at Serial Killer Cases. Today it's the fifth video I'm doing about a serial killer this week and I hope you like it". Aah,.. thank you so much Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
I remember when I was a child, & my mom would come into the doctor’s office with me for a GP appointment, I might say something about a health problem & my mother would immediately interject saying "Don’t bother the doctor with that!" & then she’d turn to the GP & apologise profusely! It saddens me that older generations, which [unusually] predominantly constituted the majority of his patient list, unquestioningly put doctors on a pedestal, & they no doubt trusted Shipman 100%, maybe more so than certain members of their own family! I’m not implying that they were culpable for their own murders in any way, just that Shipman totally exploited their firmly entrenched lifelong loyalty & deferment to his [as a doctor] "medical" opinion when it came to their care. I have absolutely nothing but appreciation for genuinely amazing frontline healthcare workers & their dedication to the public - particularly as highlighted by this current coronavirus pandemic - but I certainly don’t treat the demonstrably less than capable members of the profession as gods. It’s so sad that his patient’s inviolable trust was abused so tragically in this way by such an evil man.
I don't think it's unusual for a GP to see geriatric pts more often (to have no others on the books, that would be unusual for a non-specialist, however not that weird for younger people to require medical checkups and treatment much less often). Everything else you wrote, 100% agreed, spot on.
Some RNs and other professionals like the Psychiatric Proscriber I had last seemed to be a bit like this, too. And she was such a bitch to me when I asked for a discharge from her "care" She weaponized a mental disorder on my discharge summary just so I will not get help anywhere else. She didn't come out directly and say that but my former therapist said that that's what she did. It was so unprofessional for her to do it. I really cannot say anything to that particular clinic because they are all the same and any complaints fall on deaf ears.
When I was a kid way back when doctors were treated like gods almost. You mustn't bother them, what ever they said was gospel and they could do no wrong. We had Dr. Bennett who was in the group practice at Donnybrook house where Shipman was in Hyde before his solo practice. My dad flatly refused to call him after my mum came home after cancer treatment. Even though he'd been told to call if she deteriorated which she did drastically, she was actually dying. He felt he couldn't"bother" the doctor. My sister did in the end. My dad was still apologising to the doctor for bothering him as he came in the living room and saw my yellow emaciated mum on the settee. The doc called an ambulance and she was taken back to Christie's. My dad was in his 70's my mum was 52. Dead a couple of weeks later. He'd always had that servile attitude to them. It rubbed off on me til I'd had so many bad experience with various medical staff I treat them all with suspicion. There must be a happy medium somewhere 🙄
Dr. Todd, I live in Manchester and a friend of mine was a patient of Dr. Shipman. She had nothing but praise for him and like you said , she told me that he would make house visits when other doctors wouldn't.
When I saw “Dr. Death” in the headline, I presumed you were going to talk about Dr. Kevorkian (sp?). When I moved here to the UK, my husband told me about Shipman. When my husband grew a beard for a year, his patients on house visits began to look visibly worried and requested his ID card, even though they knew him. They literally don’t trust bearded doctors round these parts.
The "seizures" Shipman allegedly had can be caused by overdoses of pethidine. Many in the medical profession have 'god complexes' and Shipman's a prime example. Thanks for analysing this serial killer so well, Dr. Grande.
Men really do have a love/hate thing going on with their moms. I'd like to listen to you talk about that one day as well as the electra complex. Thanks! Good subject analysis as usual.
When my Mother died, my brother and Father displaced all the anger and hate they had against her onto me, the last remaining female in the house. My Father was even referring to me as "Mum" for about three weeks after her death. This allowed them to preserve an idealised image of my Mother in their minds, while ritualistically dehumanizing me.
I remember John Douglas, the retired FBI profiler, saying that often, a serial killer's first murder was "accidental" during an assault, or in their mind "necessary" to keep the person from reporting them, and that's when they discovered that they "enjoyed" killing. Maybe when Shipman saw his mother dying, he found that he enjoyed watching it.
England = English traditional. America = English simplified. Canada = English apologetic. Scotland = English incomprehensible. Ireland = English drunk. Wales = English musical. Australia = English with no worries. New Zealand = English with no AEIOU.
😁 So, I speak musical English, then. Chwarae teg. It’s right, though. We British can’t possibly say it’s as bad as all that. Indeed, unless both legs and arms are literally hanging off by threads, we are fine. Even WITH our legs hanging off, we’re “a bit under the weather” 😂
Massive respect to dr.grande for covering harold shipman. A truely twisted individual who deserves to rot in hell, if you believe in that sort of thing
When someone hero worships someone this is because they have been groomed. He will have made his wife believe she could not function without him and his protection.
He will have conditioned her to believe he was protecting her from the outside world while keeping her controlled within the parameters he set. He was free to do whatever he wanted with complete freedom but she was I am sure kept on a short leash as the saying goes.
I've seen documentaries on this one. It's as if no one, from his superiors to his associates to his patients, was paying much attention. It's common knowledge that psychopaths gravitate towards positions of power, especially those where they have power over people and power over life and death, as in the military, law enforcement, and the medical profession. During the last decade, I made an informal tour, as it were, of the local medical facilities, having a few minor procedures done and getting some counseling, and I saw several people along the way that I wouldn't want to entrust with my health or my life, including a surgeon who was widely known among hospital staff to be incompetent. Never again will I avail myself of medical care in a passive and trusting way, and I advise everyone else to take full responsibility during any treatment they need and get. I thought I saw a high burnout rate among the staff, too, which is understandable, but the resultant callousness and contempt I saw displayed towards patients was unforgivable. Thanks again, doc. Stay well.
The fact that one other doctor did report him is what's truly sad! There are a lot of cases in which they could've been stopped earlier but law enforcement dismissing it
Ah, so one person, among hundreds, was paying attention. That's often the case. It's been months since I made acquaintance with "Dr. Death," and while it was memorable--I may have been the one who asked Dr. Grande about him--many details, I'm sure, have slipped away. Thanks for the info.
Agree with you. I've had extensive experience as a patient of the NHS & while the majority are amazing, there are many incompetent people who are allowed to still practice because theyre Union members which makes getting rid of them really difficult.
@@sarahholland1375 even if they are caught in their incompetence they are just moved on. They are seen as an investment. It costs so much in time and money to train them.
He was, but I've read a few books on him. He displayed empathy (likely cognitive empathy though) for fellow addicts and would treat them with a rare kindness, probably because he was one himself.
Crimes committed by doctors and nurses against their patients are particularly cruel and disturbing. Very thorough and insightful analysis Dr. Grande, you always cover all the possible angles in your explanation and that is what make your videos such a pleasure to watch. Thank you as always!
Would love to see an analysis of the recent incident in Nova Scotia Canada where a dentist dressed up as a RCMP officer and then began shooting residents of the town. It seemed to happen out of nowhere and people who knew him didn't see anything like that coming
@@yaya14every81 I read in the news that in his high school graduation yearbook, he said he wanted to be RCMP. If that was his dream and clearly he didn't make it, he probably had an axe to grind with the RCMP.
The scary thing is that things haven't changed *that* much in the UK. Take a look at the Gosport War Memorial Hospital case and the incredibly high number of diamorphine/benzo-related 'palliative care' deaths (when these patients were admitted for non-life threatening conditions) that were signed off by a particular high-status doctor, who was allowed to resign and documents disappeared when foul play began to be suspected.
Shipman worked in the same area I grew up in, he was one if the most respected GPs in Manchester until the news came out. Almost every day in college I would walk past his old office/practice, very eerie.
I love your channel Dr! I want to admit things here. It feels great to talk. Anyways, I take Prozac and I’m proud to admit it! For severe anxiety. So so bad I could not even drive a car without panic. I have Bi polar and BPD too. And proud to admit that too. My mother committed suicide in 2012 and I was originally abandoned by both my parents at age 4. I was raised by my grandma who was a psychologist so she always made me aware of my own issues. In a good way. She helped me. And so I think that’s why I’ve been with the same man since I was 17 even though I’m 36 now. Yeah... at least I can admit it all. I am aware of my issues and I will admit them. We can’t run from our mental health issues. We must face them and try to get better. I’m happy to be healthy, happy, and 10 years sober from alcohol Autism Mommy. Amen! You can do this guys! Just want to share this. Not really sure why. I like to talk. 🤣❤️
savvvy savvv bipolar 2 since 14, now 48. Keep your meds on track. Don’t fall to drugs/alcohol as they can make you feel better but only for the moment. I still have highs and lows, just manageable with therapy. Now my 13 year old is on antidepressants, it is genetic. Married for 21 years. Don’t label yourself as bipolar- you are more than that- label yourself with positive attributes
savvvy savvv bipolar 2 since 14, now 48. Keep your meds on track. Don’t fall to drugs/alcohol as they can make you feel better but only for the moment. I still have highs and lows, just manageable with therapy. Now my 13 year old is on antidepressants, it is genetic. Married for 21 years. Don’t label yourself as bipolar- you are more than that- label yourself with positive attributes
I was working in the British NHS when this happened. The doctor who reported Shipman’s high death rate was written off by police as a stupid, menopausal middle aged woman. It took a taxi driver’s report to get the issue taken seriously. He used to regularly collect the victims from supermarket trips & noticed the unexpected deaths.
Hi Dr. Grande😀 Absolutely fascinating channel. Can you discuss the topic Nature v Nurture. I've always found it interesting. Born, made or a combination? Genetic pre disposition or learnt behavior ? Thank you👍
A few studies on twins that I've run across suggest psychopathy is anywhere between 51% and 69% inherited. I think Shipman was almost certainly a psychopath and a narcissist and I suspect he just received these genes from one or both parents. And even if his home environment played a role, this could be due to at least one of the parent's own genetic makeup anyway. I'm not an expert, though, so I too would love to hear Dr. Grande weigh in on this topic.
A particularly gruesome & excellent, review of Dr. Death-Shipman. Yesterday's Unabomber too, bloody & bizarre. Dr. G., you are on a tear! Would you consider reviewing the O.J. murder of Nicole Brown & Ron Gold? And please explain his personality disorder? Or rather "speculate."
I love Dr. G's analyses. I really feel that his videos could be valuable in the training of psychology students AND they help others to understand questionable behaviors. Understanding WHY people do what they do helps me to have more empathy for them. It's tough to have empathy for killers like Dr. Shipman though.
Mermaid Mansion I would hope that psychology students get better training than short videos meant for the general public, preferably from experienced psychologists about patients they’ve actually treated, not about sensational cases that made the headlines and that they’ve never met.
I have a serious mental health diagnosis and am on a host of psych meds. I get a a lot of therapeutic value from Dr. Grandes videos and appreciate his expertise and compassion.
‘When a doctor does go wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has the nerve and he has the knowledge.’ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle speaking through Sherlock Holmes in The Adventure of the Speckled Band.
400 views: due to not identifying with this ‘likeable’ killer, I changed my LIKE 🌊 to a ❤️. The first time in my many views that the content displeased me due to the gross malpractice. In reference to the “God Complex” my dads doctor could not save him, though his name was Dr. Pope. Good job Dr. Grande, you make us aware we need to see other people as fallible humans, not elevated as gods. 😄👍💝
There does seem to be a pattern of narcissists hiding behind professions or occupations that are highly respected. I believe that they need it to compensate for their very low level of personal credibility - it cloaks who they really are and allows them to get away with things, to not arouse suspicion. Some become doctors, some self-proclaimed philosophers or bodhisattvas, some priests. They are attracted to the mantle of being "above suspicion" that comes with the role, but they have very little interest in the job itself - only the power it gives them to influence and use others for their own personal gratification or exploitation.
Very interesting, Dr Grande. Could I add a couple of things. Shipman's background was working class, growing up on a Council Estate. His mother was proud when he passed the exam to get into a good grammar school. She did not like him to associate with other children on the estate. I understand he met his wife Primrose on a bus. She was an art student. She became pregnant with his child and they agreed to marry. Thank you for another well prepared video.
There's a very simple explanation as to why patients like him: he would treat them at home. This was common up until the mid 70s and many people, especially older people who find travelling difficult miss this feature of general practice.
Apparently Hollywood is going to make a movie on the life of Dr.Harold Shipman, playing the part will be Robert De Niro, it's going to be called "The old Dear Hunter"
Drug and alcohol abuse is commonplace among doctors, there seems to be a kind of omerta that protected Shipman as well. Even if the second clinic had known about his pethidine problem, I doubt he would have been discovered sooner because of it for this reason. Maybe you could do a video on that kind of "groupthink", the bystander effect, why people don't speak up in these situations when they have concerns, etc? It's an interesting topic...
Dr. Harold Shipman, was a monster. First time I heard of him, was on the crime program: American Justice with Bill Kurtis, on A&E several yrs back. Thank u for bringing this to us.
One of the things which has subsequently been discussed is how many of Shipman's early victims may have been much younger, including children, when he was training as a doctor. This then led to speculation that he ended up killing older people simply because it was easier to get away with. People are much less likely to question the death of someone who's elderly.
This is off topic relative to this particular video. But I was wondering if there’s anything in the data/research to suggest that professional psychedelic therapy could be beneficial to treat narcissism? And if so maybe you could put out a video on it. Thanks you for all the work you do Dr. Grande!
This type of situation is exceeding rare, however, this type of person is NOT rare in medicine. I wish you would have talked about the rates of dark triad types in the medical field. Depending on the sub-specialty, I've seen studies that show doctors with high levels of dark triad traits upwards of 40%. Typically it seems to fall around 5-20%, which is still far above the rate of the average population. Don't get me wrong. The average doctor is well equipped and wants to do the right thing. I work in a hospital, and the majority of my interactions with doctors are positive. But I will also say the average doctor is presumptuous and isn't as on top of things as they project. Coming from a basic science research background, reading medical journals is shockingly ascientific, and the average doctor cares little about keeping up to date with studies, even within their own field. There's a fascinating book I read years ago called Medical Errors and Medical Narcissism. It argued that the system and society gradually causes doctors to develop narcissistic traits as a means of self-protection and maintaining self-image because they are required project superiority for themselves and others. Because they are expected to be authorities, and because they see themselves as knowing what is right, they develop blind spots and defense mechanisms in order to maintain that power. It is very understandable, and it's not even really their own fault, and I've seen it happen not only in day-to-day interactions, but to some doctors over the course of their career. The system puts a ton of pressure on doctors, society reveres them far too much, the type of candidates chosen for medical school are really outdated and myopic... There's loads of reasons for this. It is something completely unaddressed, and will continue to be for obvious reasons.
This type of person is not rare in medicine...there is always one, more often than not two, in a hospital section - who have succumbed to their god-complex... luckily most are wonderfully Awesome♥️♥️♥️
This is why I always research extensively online about my ailments and always pressure GP's to refer me to a specialist when dealing with GP's. I live in London and with the NHS most GP's are just trying to be as cheap and stingy as possible these days. Most GP's don't actually know anything (that you can't figure out with the internet).You typically need specialists and that can take forever unless you are literally dying. The NHS is under a lot of stress to the point where most GP's are willing to overlook patient care for the sake of "getting it done and moving on to the next patient". DOCTORS NURSES AND HEALTHWORKERS IN THE UK ARE OFTEN NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR SHORTCOMINGS AS THEY ARE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN MANIPULATE THINGS TO MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK INNOCENT;THEY ARE IN HIGH DEMAND AND THEY HAVE A CULTURE OF HELPING ONE ANOTHER EVADE SCRUTINY UNLESS THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION TO ONE ANOTHER FOR POLITICAL REASONS.
Thanks I watched the documentary about him in the UK and your analysis is great. When the police caught him he was so arrogant he thought he was above the law, but when they started to show him all the evidence they have gathered his whole demeanour changed when he knew it was over.
Dr. Grande, thanks again 4 answering my darlie routier questions with a fantastic video! im sorry, but i have another question; have u done an analysis of diane downs? i dont understand why she raised her kids seemingly well for 8(ish) years and then became psychopathic and murderous?? thanks again for everything!!!
So interesting to get a deeper insight into Harold Shipman. I remember when this all happened. It was totally shocking. Could you also look at the British serial killer, Dennis Neilson, who claimed he killed as he did not want the people to leave him. He had a very interesting childhood and life for that fact. Great video by the way.
@@mrs.reluctant4095 yes I was and worked alongside him....this post is so on point in many things but the total tally is around 500, I spoke to 2 detectives on the case who mentioned this, unbelievable just doesn't cover it at all
Before Shipman, there was John Bodkin Adams, another, British doctor who had the same pattern of sending, rich patients particularly, to an early death!! Shipman was loved by his elderly patients as he, "..did things the old way" (house calls, etc.) I am shocked at the way the British NHS is organised. At our home in the U.S., G.P.s & family practitioners deferred to specialists (after all, we spend longer, much longer learning the art/vocation as we prepare for the care & service we provide). In the U.K., specialists can only recommend the course of treatment & medication but it's a G.P. who makes the final decision!! The other thing that needs to change in the U.K. is the huge stigma associated with mental health issues. I remember trying to obtain mental health services in the U.K. for a patient who already had more than one mental health diagnosis & I was told that there simply weren't enough specialists in the U.K. compared to the number of patients requiring mental health care... He & Primrose had a strange relationship & he made it no secret that, were she not pregnant outside of wedlock, he never would have married her. Like Betty (Broderick) Primrose was always the first mother to volunteer to bring snacks to school sports games yet police officers who collected evidence from their home (most notably the typewriter with which he had forged Kathleen Grundy's will) said that it was filthy & full of trash bags! Apologies for the muddled (& long) comment & thank you again for another excellent vlog.
Thanks for covering this case. Very enlightening. If you are planning on doing any more UK analysis subjects. I would like to recommend Mary Bell. Her case is rather intriguing (to me) given that what she did in her childhood. After her release from prison she gave birth to a daughter who went on to have a daughter of her own. The courts have granted them all lifelong anonymity. I wonder if the recidivism rate is lower if someone is a child when they kill and are 'incarcerated' as opposed to an adult who commits a similar crime. Thank you again for continuing to provide such great content for those of us who are interested in this sort of thing.
There's an excellent BBC documentary about Mary Bell here on RUclips, part of a series looking at child crime. She had an appalling early life - her mother was a dominatrix prostitute with serious mental health issues, who had "sold" Mary to another women when she was a kid, and Mary's elder sister had to get her back. Her mother then tried to throw her out of windows etc. Mary later said that her mother had forced her to engage in sexual acts with her mother's customers from the age of 4. Mary killed those kids by strangulation - it seems that she was mimicking the S&M sex her mother had subjected her to.
Shipman behaved like a toddler in police interviews: refused to engage verbally & actually sat with his back to the officers whilst they asked questions! At least, he did in the documentary I saw, with video of the interrogation. Either, he felt superior to them & didn't need to engage, so he showed his contempt, or he simply couldn't face the enormity of his crimes (out of sight, out of mind - like a small child covering their eyes). Perhaps, he was a psychopath with vulnerable narcissism; a cold, emotionless man with a powerful & superior veneer. Underneath that, a depressed man permanently trapped at 17, reliving his mother's death. Superficially charming, but thought most beneath him.
this series is fascinating, while on English serial killers, take a look at Beverley allitt, a maternity nurse in the early 90’s, I’d love to hear your analysis.
Thanks for the video Dr grande, In my opinion psychopaths are clever and cold minded people, yet they also have a Achilles heel and that is the arrogance of believing to be superior in every single way , its curious that they are so smart and cunning that they even fool themselves without even noticing and end up in prison.
I was a nurse for 30 years in a hospital setting. One of the things I learned was how doctors protect one another. Only when a incompetent physician had multiple complaints , was it investigated. They would defend him to the end.
Well, Doctor...I said to myself I was only gonna' watch one more video...that was two videos ago. Thank you kindly for an informative and fascinating look into the cases of these horrible mental disorders and into some truly tormented people...Nature or Nurture...a little of both and sometimes just plain evil...🤠
I know a guy that used to hang out with him back in the day (I’m from Manchester). Said he liked a drink and was extremely popular in his local area, but that he always seemed odd to him, very cold and unemotional about things. He went to his house once and said that it was incredibly messy and looked like it was owned by a hoarder.
what this video doesn't include is that towards the end several of hs patients suspected, feared, and dreaded him dropping by to 'see how they were getting on' which was usually the last time they were seen alive. He killed several people who knew that he had come to kill them it is believed, which must have been a grotesque scenario.
Yes, four pensioners, wasn’t it? They were watching him. He picked them off one by one. He was able to so quickly kill one while the other went to check on something. It looked like she had fallen asleep. Diabolical evil.
I grew up in Denton, just five minutes up the road from Hyde, and a lot of my classmates in primary school knew him from him treating members of their family. I remember the day he hung himself because I was out shopping in Hyde and there were journalists stopping people to ask their opinions on his death. A lot of people say he chose to kill himself on that particular day so his wife would still get either his pension or insurance (I can't remember which one).
I’m a new subscriber and I love your channel! I’ve been binge watching your videos at night. Can you do Bryce Laspisa? This case has always baffled me.
Dr. Harold Shipman's story scares me as someone aspiring to be in the medical field, I grew up around hostility and traumatic events that I'm still scarred by and still trying to get over. I've been relentlessly bullied by my peers, adults as someone still underage, and also by family members, often times some of them going out of their way to make me feel bad about myself while also letting me know how they're feeling awful about themselves too because of these circumstances - us both feeling powerless as their feelings and urges to hurt me is too strong and me left wondering why can't they allow themselves to act better even towards someone they perceive as absolutely horrible - insinuating it's because of me that they're feeling this way which messed with my mind ever since that kind of behaviour directed specifically to me started. I've noticed I attract a lot of negativity towards me and I know I need to change that, I know I need to work on helping people feel at ease with me, I also feel like people refuse to let me change that as they want to dig a hole, throw me in there, and monkey guard the exit. I feel as though I wasn't allowed to be anyone other than this ever since peers realised just how different and odd I was. I know I can prosper even through these adversaries, however I can't fully silence the voices in the back of my mind wanting so badly for me to fail. I don't fully understand the hatred some people feel for me, in spite of all my efforts and all my actions that comes naturally that prove that I am a good person.
I think you’re correct about this guy’s need for control and of course, being a doctor is a great career choice when you want the ultimate control of life vs death. I have a healthcare provider background and see so many in the biz that got/get addicted to it. Great video. 👍🏼
Just a note: I think shipman was traumatised by the feeling of having no control over his mother’s death, so he killed his victims in a similar way so that he could be the one in control over life and death (I hope that makes sense c:)
We will never know, only he knew why. But his experience with his mother also might indicate that he justified his murder by telling himself he was showing them mercy.
When the story broke a colleague of mine told me that she had left work going directly to her mums house as she was unwell and she was met by Dr Shipman at her mums house about to administer an injection. As a nurse still in her uniform she questioned what it was and he didn’t give it or perhaps gave her something else, I don’t remember how the story went but I guess the point being if she hadn’t arrived when she did it’s possible her mother could have been another victim. I found it hard to believe her story but she was from the area so its possible her mum could have been a patient of his. I think the reason he got away with it and on such a large scale for so long was because he was a doctor. People trust their doctor. As nurses we always said there was a blanket of protection around doctors that nurse never had but I still find it hard to believe that no one had any suspicions when patients actually died in his surgery. It takes great courage to speak out its easier to keep quiet thank goodness for the doctor who did eventually speak out and perhaps saved life’s in doing so and Shipmans own greed blew his cover.
In one documentary it was mentioned how the class system made doctors, lawyers, curates word be virtually unquestioned. For Hundreds of years. That when he graduated medical school something like only 5% of the UK population went on to higher learning or higher professional jobs. There was a natural or demanded turning over of power to that class. I think that still happens even now. The same documentary believes he may have murdered over 500 patients.
This is terrifying...You would hope that doctors go into the profession to make lives better :( Thank goodness he was caught; if only it had been sooner. Great video as always, thank you!
I’ve been a practicing psychiatrist for 30 years, having switched from family medicine; after watching this and thinking back, it would have been much easier to get away with what he did in the 1990’s and early 2000’s. Now, we have National prescriber controlled substance databases, death reviews whenever a patient dies, Adverse Outcomes that are electronic, and numerous other failsafes. It’s not perfect but he would have been caught quickly today and had no legal access to heroin
To explain the use of moderate severe depression this is used in a number of UK scales, because the primary set of questions are about the features and the secondary is about the function. So you may have severe depression from the features but if you can still function in some aspects of life you are given the modifier "moderate" to the severe title. My own GP once explained my own moderately severe depression diagnosis as "just because you can go to work doesn't mean you should". Same guy signed me off until when I was asked "do you want to be at work?" my response was "hell, no" because that indicated I was enjoying my home life enough that the depression was resolving. My other GP decided I was getting better from a later episode when I came to him with the NG protocol to deal with the fact I was loosing 1.5kg per week...that I could juggle the math for the protocol meant I wasn't as fuggy brained
I would love it if you would do a video on Paul John Knowles bka the Casanova Killer. I'd love to hear your insights regarding his audio tapes that he sent to his lawyer.
I just posted on your video released 26th April 2020 (my birthday) a request for you to make a video about Harold Shipman. Then I thought I ought to actually check if you've made one and here it is from only two days before!
In the enquiry held after theses events it was discovered that NOT ONE of his victims had anything seriously wrong with them, so no question of “ mercy killings” here. With the final killing the victim’s daughter was a lawyer and knew instantly that the will was a forgery. Also the local funeral parlour flagged up their concerns as they were burying far mor of Shipman’s patients than any other local doctor.When the police visited his family home they noted it was filthy and the carpet was so tacky with dirt that their feet adhered to the floor. I seem to remember that it was thought he might have murdered up to 400 patients over his career.
Kevorkian is considered a hero by many. That is something often forgotten. Dr. Grande didn't mention that heroin is a legal painkiller in Britain. Another interesting fact is that Demoral has been discontinued as a pain killer other than use immediately after surgery for 72 hours. Pt. Is then switched to another opiate/,opioid. This because it was discovered that meperridine
When people talk about the banality of evil then Shipman for me stands near the top. I live in the same city this occured back in 98/99 and recall seeing him being interviewed by the press outside his surgery, but never heard him speak, your just see him talking but not hear his voice. I found a clip on youtube of him speaking and he's very well spoken a little smug, but you'd never in a million years think he was doing what he did. We all say about serial killers how they blend in but it's even more stunning with him. In fact it's frightening how benal it is. You imagine something would give him away, but no strange smiles or thousand yard stare. It's one of the most stunning cases I've ever come across. If you get chance watch the short of him talking on world in action from the 1980s then years later after her been found out in 1998.
Dr Grande. Could you please cover a British Child Serial Killer called, Beverly Allit? ' The Angel of Death' 1991. She is in 'Rampton Psychiatric Hospital, Nottinghamshire , UK...I would appreciate your clinical expertise on Munchausen ...She was/is a very dangerous individual. Thank you.
I don't know about you folks, but I'm always ready for a scientifically informed, insider look at mental health topics.
That’s what I came for
yes! that’s what i came here for!
Yep!!
Zach was quick to respond to questions even when it wasn't really his job. It is so much easier as a client to speak to the same person all the way through the process. After I was bounced between various representatives working on different aspects of my loan I would go back to Zach to put this lengthy process in perspective. It was easy to be lost in all the paperwork but he kept my frustration level in check and was pleasantly helpful. Thanks, Zach
Zach was quick to respond to questions even when it wasn't really his job. It is so much easier as a client to speak to the same person all the way through the process. After I was bounced between various representatives working on different aspects of my loan I would go back to Zach to put this lengthy process in perspective. It was easy to be lost in all the paperwork but he kept my frustration level in check and was pleasantly helpful. Thanks, Zach
He was only caught because he was found to have changed / edited patients notes on the computer. This case completely changed working practices in the NHS so that it was unlikely ever to happen again . However we still find medics practicing when they are clearly causing harm. Breaking down this God complex is fundamental to patient safety and listening to whistleblowers who are so often afraid to speak out for fear of losing their job . Thank you for bringing up this case it is so important for patient safety that Harold Shipman is not forgotten.
Hi Maria, there seems to be an ongoing issue in the UK about the medical profession covering for its own. If you look at what happened in the Gosport War Memorial Hospital, where a Dr Jane Barton was prescribing lethal doses of diamorphine for people with fractures and other non-life threatening conditions - 600+ lives were "shortened". She was found to have committed medical malpractice by the medical register in 2010 but was not struck off and instead was allowed to resign!
@Sunflora Maria it's particularly bad in the UK. The system there allows Shipmans to operate with relative impunity, backed by a very powerful professional institution that's hell-bent upon protecting its members - even those that happen to be deranged killers. Take a look at the case of Dr Jane Barton, who had a particular penchant for putting as many patients as she could on lethal doses of diamorphine and midazolam. Many more succumbed to this than to Shipman's deadly prescriptions. Barton was allowed to resign.
Most people find it morally acceptable - and even desirable - for a doctor to use their professional judgement to quietly and informally give a very high dosage of a medication like diamorphine in order to bring the suffering of a terminally ill patient to a permanent close. The problem with this is that it provides a near-perfect cover for killers to act with impunity.
I really didn't like the way a consultant was standing over my mother when the question of a DNR on my dad came up. He was basically telling her she had to do the DNR as a matter of quality of life, and "value", very impatient and declarative, not at all like consulting her and asking for her opinion. I raised the philosophical (and theological) problem with the language of value and worth in relation to human life and individuals, that that's how you talk about commodities not human beings, that terminology reveals assumptions and false beliefs, but in the end my mum rolled over out of deference to his professional authority. And we see that Thatcherite, Singerian, "Utilitarian" mentality playing out now in the COVID pandemic, with the Tory government effectively letting people die because they don't see the lives of the poor and the old as _worth_ saving.
When you think about it, some doctors have been shown during war time to murder patients and some in peacetime have been very eager to experiment with defenceless patients. It's what Dr. Grande says is the god complex, coupled with a touch of narcissism.
Do ppl who have God-complexes typically commit suicide? Just a question because my father told me of someone he knew that belonged to our faith, in the way my dad described him, he seemed narcissistic and had the God-complex, too because of his attitude. He was an elder in the church and seemed to "Lord" it over everyone. Even little things he really criticized about, like the way a family sits around the table. He killed himself, too.
If you're a Doctor or a Tenured academic you can do anything without losing your job but if you pack deliveries for Amazon expect daily breathalyser tests
LOL ironic
Or a political figure
That's bullshit, do Amazon think they're traffix police or something lol
👄 💨 👁
@@Johnc259 for one such example, look how much the Prime Minister of Finland dragged her heels over a drugs test.
(patient dies mysteriously)
Dr. Lecter: Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere.
Dr. Shipman: No need to thank me.
I appreciated that Silence of the Lambs reference 😂
@Kristy Kelly Call it, friendo.
Best comment. I watch Silence of the Lambs Q.I.D
"Welcome to my Scientifically Informed Insider Look at Serial Killer Cases. Today it's the fifth video I'm doing about a serial killer this week and I hope you like it".
Aah,.. thank you so much Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
@ Yes, I am 🇳🇱
Effect of sheltering in place. Lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Music to my ears & making lock down bearable!!
I remember when I was a child, & my mom would come into the doctor’s office with me for a GP appointment, I might say something about a health problem & my mother would immediately interject saying "Don’t bother the doctor with that!" & then she’d turn to the GP & apologise profusely! It saddens me that older generations, which [unusually] predominantly constituted the majority of his patient list, unquestioningly put doctors on a pedestal, & they no doubt trusted Shipman 100%, maybe more so than certain members of their own family!
I’m not implying that they were culpable for their own murders in any way, just that Shipman totally exploited their firmly entrenched lifelong loyalty & deferment to his [as a doctor] "medical" opinion when it came to their care.
I have absolutely nothing but appreciation for genuinely amazing frontline healthcare workers & their dedication to the public - particularly as highlighted by this current coronavirus pandemic - but I certainly don’t treat the demonstrably less than capable members of the profession as gods. It’s so sad that his patient’s inviolable trust was abused so tragically in this way by such an evil man.
Your mom would tell you not to bother your doctor with health problems? Why did she even take you to a doctor at all then? That's just bizarre...
I don't think it's unusual for a GP to see geriatric pts more often (to have no others on the books, that would be unusual for a non-specialist, however not that weird for younger people to require medical checkups and treatment much less often). Everything else you wrote, 100% agreed, spot on.
Some RNs and other professionals like the Psychiatric Proscriber I had last seemed to be a bit like this, too. And she was such a bitch to me when I asked for a discharge from her "care" She weaponized a mental disorder on my discharge summary just so I will not get help anywhere else. She didn't come out directly and say that but my former therapist said that that's what she did. It was so unprofessional for her to do it. I really cannot say anything to that particular clinic because they are all the same and any complaints fall on deaf ears.
When I was a kid way back when doctors were treated like gods almost. You mustn't bother them, what ever they said was gospel and they could do no wrong. We had Dr. Bennett who was in the group practice at Donnybrook house where Shipman was in Hyde before his solo practice. My dad flatly refused to call him after my mum came home after cancer treatment. Even though he'd been told to call if she deteriorated which she did drastically, she was actually dying. He felt he couldn't"bother" the doctor. My sister did in the end. My dad was still apologising to the doctor for bothering him as he came in the living room and saw my yellow emaciated mum on the settee. The doc called an ambulance and she was taken back to Christie's. My dad was in his 70's my mum was 52. Dead a couple of weeks later. He'd always had that servile attitude to them. It rubbed off on me til I'd had so many bad experience with various medical staff I treat them all with suspicion. There must be a happy medium somewhere 🙄
No big deal today to question docs based on easy access to current info, harder back then with no internet.
Dr. Todd, I live in Manchester and a friend of mine was a patient of Dr. Shipman. She had nothing but praise for him and like you said , she told me that he would make house visits when other doctors wouldn't.
House visits gave him the opportunity to see if the person was owning valuables.
When I saw “Dr. Death” in the headline, I presumed you were going to talk about Dr. Kevorkian (sp?).
When I moved here to the UK, my husband told me about Shipman. When my husband grew a beard for a year, his patients on house visits began to look visibly worried and requested his ID card, even though they knew him. They literally don’t trust bearded doctors round these parts.
I don’t generally trust men with chin-pubes either, although I make an exception for our dear Dr. G
I though the same, I admire Dr. Kevorkian, If I have a terminal illness, is not worth continuing to live. Euthanasia is the best
Dr Kevorkian is a saint!
No wonder everyone is wary around my husband. He's covered in fur from head to toe and hates wearing shoes!
@@reswobiandreaming3644 Perhaps he can't find a pair of shoes large enough? Wait.........are you in the Pacific Northwest by chance?
The "seizures" Shipman allegedly had can be caused by overdoses of pethidine. Many in the medical profession have 'god complexes' and Shipman's a prime example. Thanks for analysing this serial killer so well, Dr. Grande.
Men really do have a love/hate thing going on with their moms. I'd like to listen to you talk about that one day as well as the electra complex.
Thanks! Good subject analysis as usual.
Didn't Freud say something about that?
Same with girls and fathers
Not only men hehe 😅
@@toker6664 same with girls and mothers too
When my Mother died, my brother and Father displaced all the anger and hate they had against her onto me, the last remaining female in the house. My Father was even referring to me as "Mum" for about three weeks after her death. This allowed them to preserve an idealised image of my Mother in their minds, while ritualistically dehumanizing me.
I remember John Douglas, the retired FBI profiler, saying that often, a serial killer's first murder was "accidental" during an assault, or in their mind "necessary" to keep the person from reporting them, and that's when they discovered that they "enjoyed" killing. Maybe when Shipman saw his mother dying, he found that he enjoyed watching it.
He woulda justified it as reducing suffering in his head, don't need a criminologist to tell you that
To a British ear, “moderately severe depression” sounds perfectly sensible 😀
Yup! that’s been one of my diagnosis for years.
The level of severity is moderate.
England = English traditional.
America = English simplified.
Canada = English apologetic.
Scotland = English incomprehensible.
Ireland = English drunk.
Wales = English musical.
Australia = English with no worries.
New Zealand = English with no AEIOU.
😁 So, I speak musical English, then. Chwarae teg. It’s right, though. We British can’t possibly say it’s as bad as all that. Indeed, unless both legs and arms are literally hanging off by threads, we are fine. Even WITH our legs hanging off, we’re “a bit under the weather” 😂
@@coralking5570 yeah as an Englishman I find the Welsh accent musical, like you're singing everything, I like it. 😁
Your uploads are getting me through ISO in Australia 🌻💯💟👍
Massive respect to dr.grande for covering harold shipman. A truely twisted individual who deserves to rot in hell, if you believe in that sort of thing
Frankie Piner i do believe in Hell. John 3:16
And his wife just stayed ever so infatuated with him through it All - wtf😲😲😲
When someone hero worships someone this is because they have been groomed.
He will have made his wife believe she could not function without him and his protection.
He will have conditioned her to believe he was protecting her from the outside world
while keeping her controlled within the parameters he set. He was free to do whatever
he wanted with complete freedom but she was I am sure kept on a short leash as the
saying goes.
Ruthless man. Wonderful content/analysis as usual Dr. Grande.
I've seen documentaries on this one. It's as if no one, from his superiors to his associates to his patients, was paying much attention.
It's common knowledge that psychopaths gravitate towards positions of power, especially those where they have power over people and power over life and death, as in the military, law enforcement, and the medical profession.
During the last decade, I made an informal tour, as it were, of the local medical facilities, having a few minor procedures done and getting some counseling, and I saw several people along the way that I wouldn't want to entrust with my health or my life, including a surgeon who was widely known among hospital staff to be incompetent. Never again will I avail myself of medical care in a passive and trusting way, and I advise everyone else to take full responsibility during any treatment they need and get.
I thought I saw a high burnout rate among the staff, too, which is understandable, but the resultant callousness and contempt I saw displayed towards patients was unforgivable.
Thanks again, doc. Stay well.
The fact that one other doctor did report him is what's truly sad!
There are a lot of cases in which they could've been stopped earlier but law enforcement dismissing it
Ah, so one person, among hundreds, was paying attention.
That's often the case.
It's been months since I made acquaintance with "Dr. Death," and while it was memorable--I may have been the one who asked Dr. Grande about him--many details, I'm sure, have slipped away.
Thanks for the info.
Canada has universal health care...It's hit and miss.
Agree with you. I've had extensive experience as a patient of the NHS & while the majority are amazing, there are many incompetent people who are allowed to still practice because theyre Union members which makes getting rid of them really difficult.
@@sarahholland1375 even if they are caught in their incompetence they are just moved on. They are seen as an investment. It costs so much in time and money to train them.
very interesting again ... he was really a cold hearted person.
He was, but I've read a few books on him. He displayed empathy (likely cognitive empathy though) for fellow addicts and would treat them with a rare kindness, probably because he was one himself.
Oh yeah.
@@KingdomPlans cognitive empathy is a really interesting thing....
Crimes committed by doctors and nurses against their patients are particularly cruel and disturbing.
Very thorough and insightful analysis Dr. Grande, you always cover all the possible angles in your explanation and that is what make your videos such a pleasure to watch.
Thank you as always!
I remember when this was in the news. I haven't kept up with what might've been uncovered since 1998. Thanks for covering the story.
Would love to see an analysis of the recent incident in Nova Scotia Canada where a dentist dressed up as a RCMP officer and then began shooting residents of the town. It seemed to happen out of nowhere and people who knew him didn't see anything like that coming
The creepy signage for his denture business should have been a clue that something was amiss with him.
Actually he was a denturist, a guy who fitted dentures, not a dentist. I don't want to let him have any credit than he hasn't earned.
And also why did the Globe and Mail say, “he had a love of policing?”
@@yaya14every81 I read in the news that in his high school graduation yearbook, he said he wanted to be RCMP. If that was his dream and clearly he didn't make it, he probably had an axe to grind with the RCMP.
I think I remember something about that. When exactly did that happen?
The scary thing is that things haven't changed *that* much in the UK. Take a look at the Gosport War Memorial Hospital case and the incredibly high number of diamorphine/benzo-related 'palliative care' deaths (when these patients were admitted for non-life threatening conditions) that were signed off by a particular high-status doctor, who was allowed to resign and documents disappeared when foul play began to be suspected.
To be fair those deaths were at the same time Shipman was active. I gather a lot has changed in NHS practices to prevent this happening again.
Long time ago and that kind of thing is virtually impossible now
You sure are productive during quarantine Dr. Grande! I feel like we are getting a new video from you just about every day.
Shipman worked in the same area I grew up in, he was one if the most respected GPs in Manchester until the news came out. Almost every day in college I would walk past his old office/practice, very eerie.
Here in the UK he is unique in terms of the scale and scope of his murderous deeds. All concealed under a cloak of restrained respectability.
I love your channel Dr! I want to admit things here. It feels great to talk. Anyways, I take Prozac and I’m proud to admit it! For severe anxiety. So so bad I could not even drive a car without panic. I have Bi polar and BPD too. And proud to admit that too. My mother committed suicide in 2012 and I was originally abandoned by both my parents at age 4. I was raised by my grandma who was a psychologist so she always made me aware of my own issues. In a good way. She helped me. And so I think that’s why I’ve been with the same man since I was 17 even though I’m 36 now. Yeah... at least I can admit it all. I am aware of my issues and I will admit them. We can’t run from our mental health issues. We must face them and try to get better. I’m happy to be healthy, happy, and 10 years sober from alcohol Autism Mommy. Amen! You can do this guys! Just want to share this. Not really sure why. I like to talk. 🤣❤️
MOE does DIYs , a bipolar that talks too much? No way!! lol
Oh Moe. I wish I could hug you. ❤
How many month you take
savvvy savvv bipolar 2 since 14, now 48. Keep your meds on track. Don’t fall to drugs/alcohol as they can make you feel better but only for the moment. I still have highs and lows, just manageable with therapy. Now my 13 year old is on antidepressants, it is genetic. Married for 21 years. Don’t label yourself as bipolar- you are more than that- label yourself with positive attributes
savvvy savvv bipolar 2 since 14, now 48. Keep your meds on track. Don’t fall to drugs/alcohol as they can make you feel better but only for the moment. I still have highs and lows, just manageable with therapy. Now my 13 year old is on antidepressants, it is genetic. Married for 21 years. Don’t label yourself as bipolar- you are more than that- label yourself with positive attributes
I was working in the British NHS when this happened. The doctor who reported Shipman’s high death rate was written off by police as a stupid, menopausal middle aged woman. It took a taxi driver’s report to get the issue taken seriously. He used to regularly collect the victims from supermarket trips & noticed the unexpected deaths.
That, and the daughter of his last victim reporting a forged will.
Hi Dr. Grande😀
Absolutely fascinating channel.
Can you discuss the topic Nature v Nurture. I've always found it interesting. Born, made or a combination? Genetic pre disposition or learnt behavior ?
Thank you👍
A few studies on twins that I've run across suggest psychopathy is anywhere between 51% and 69% inherited. I think Shipman was almost certainly a psychopath and a narcissist and I suspect he just received these genes from one or both parents. And even if his home environment played a role, this could be due to at least one of the parent's own genetic makeup anyway.
I'm not an expert, though, so I too would love to hear Dr. Grande weigh in on this topic.
These are 1000x more informative than any other criminal psych channel. You're awesome, thank you!
A particularly gruesome & excellent, review of Dr. Death-Shipman. Yesterday's Unabomber too, bloody & bizarre. Dr. G., you are on a tear! Would you consider reviewing the O.J. murder of Nicole Brown & Ron Gold?
And please explain his personality disorder? Or rather "speculate."
I love Dr. G's analyses. I really feel that his videos could be valuable in the training of psychology students AND they help others to understand questionable behaviors. Understanding WHY people do what they do helps me to have more empathy for them. It's tough to have empathy for killers like Dr. Shipman though.
Mermaid Mansion I would hope that psychology students get better training than short videos meant for the general public, preferably from experienced psychologists about patients they’ve actually treated, not about sensational cases that made the headlines and that they’ve never met.
I am a Psychology Student and like this videos a lot.
I have a serious mental health diagnosis and am on a host of psych meds. I get a a lot of therapeutic value from Dr. Grandes videos and appreciate his expertise and compassion.
‘When a doctor does go wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has the nerve and he has the knowledge.’ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle speaking through Sherlock Holmes in The Adventure of the Speckled Band.
400 views: due to not identifying with this ‘likeable’ killer, I changed my LIKE 🌊 to a ❤️. The first time in my many views that the content displeased me due to the gross malpractice. In reference to the “God Complex” my dads doctor could not save him, though his name was Dr. Pope.
Good job Dr. Grande, you make us aware we need to see other people as fallible humans, not elevated as gods. 😄👍💝
There does seem to be a pattern of narcissists hiding behind professions or occupations that are highly respected. I believe that they need it to compensate for their very low level of personal credibility - it cloaks who they really are and allows them to get away with things, to not arouse suspicion. Some become doctors, some self-proclaimed philosophers or bodhisattvas, some priests. They are attracted to the mantle of being "above suspicion" that comes with the role, but they have very little interest in the job itself - only the power it gives them to influence and use others for their own personal gratification or exploitation.
Can you do a character analysis video on Wendy Byrde from Ozark? I’m fascinated with the psychology of that character
Very interesting, Dr Grande. Could I add a couple of things. Shipman's background was working class, growing up on a Council Estate. His mother was proud when he passed the exam to get into a good grammar school. She did not like him to associate with other children on the estate. I understand he met his wife Primrose on a bus. She was an art student. She became pregnant with his child and they agreed to marry. Thank you for another well prepared video.
There's a very simple explanation as to why patients like him: he would treat them at home. This was common up until the mid 70s and many people, especially older people who find travelling difficult miss this feature of general practice.
Oh fab! You have done Dr Shipman... most excellent - will watch this later. Thank so much Dr Grande!
Apparently Hollywood is going to make a movie on the life of Dr.Harold Shipman, playing the part will be Robert De Niro, it's going to be called "The old Dear Hunter"
Lmfao 😂
It's not funny tho
@@secretivescorpio891 that was good.
You gotta STOP!
Witty 😁
Does anyone remember the Law & Order episode obviously based on Dr. Shipman's crimes?
that made me laugh, but wow.
Drug and alcohol abuse is commonplace among doctors, there seems to be a kind of omerta that protected Shipman as well. Even if the second clinic had known about his pethidine problem, I doubt he would have been discovered sooner because of it for this reason. Maybe you could do a video on that kind of "groupthink", the bystander effect, why people don't speak up in these situations when they have concerns, etc? It's an interesting topic...
I really appreciate the statistical analysis/forensics towards the end. Nice work there Dr. Grande.
Your videos are so fascinating and also somehow very calming to listen to. Thanks for all of your interesting content!
So nice of you
Dr. Harold Shipman, was a monster. First time I heard of him, was on the crime program: American Justice with Bill Kurtis, on A&E several yrs back. Thank u for bringing this to us.
If Robin Williams was still with us, I bet he would do a great job playing this Doctor in a Bioflic.
Dean Prater he did have a resemblance.
Dean Prater omgggg no kidding!! Would have been a great person to play him!
Oh, great. Now I'm imagining Dr. Shipman saying "nanu, nanu" as he administers a fatal dose.
Dean Prater James Bolam played him in a film.
OMG,that was my first thought. 👊
One of the things which has subsequently been discussed is how many of Shipman's early victims may have been much younger, including children, when he was training as a doctor. This then led to speculation that he ended up killing older people simply because it was easier to get away with. People are much less likely to question the death of someone who's elderly.
Absolutely frightening! The days of total trust in your Doctor are over thanks to Shipmans kill ratio. Thank you for posting.
This is off topic relative to this particular video. But I was wondering if there’s anything in the data/research to suggest that professional psychedelic therapy could be beneficial to treat narcissism? And if so maybe you could put out a video on it. Thanks you for all the work you do Dr. Grande!
I always feel so sad for the victims, and their families, whenever I listen to murder cases 😭
Always love your videos! I've been waiting for this one :)
This type of situation is exceeding rare, however, this type of person is NOT rare in medicine.
I wish you would have talked about the rates of dark triad types in the medical field. Depending on the sub-specialty, I've seen studies that show doctors with high levels of dark triad traits upwards of 40%. Typically it seems to fall around 5-20%, which is still far above the rate of the average population.
Don't get me wrong. The average doctor is well equipped and wants to do the right thing. I work in a hospital, and the majority of my interactions with doctors are positive. But I will also say the average doctor is presumptuous and isn't as on top of things as they project. Coming from a basic science research background, reading medical journals is shockingly ascientific, and the average doctor cares little about keeping up to date with studies, even within their own field.
There's a fascinating book I read years ago called Medical Errors and Medical Narcissism. It argued that the system and society gradually causes doctors to develop narcissistic traits as a means of self-protection and maintaining self-image because they are required project superiority for themselves and others. Because they are expected to be authorities, and because they see themselves as knowing what is right, they develop blind spots and defense mechanisms in order to maintain that power. It is very understandable, and it's not even really their own fault, and I've seen it happen not only in day-to-day interactions, but to some doctors over the course of their career. The system puts a ton of pressure on doctors, society reveres them far too much, the type of candidates chosen for medical school are really outdated and myopic... There's loads of reasons for this. It is something completely unaddressed, and will continue to be for obvious reasons.
Well said, Adam Bell. A real tour-de-force of a subject too long ignored and swept under the carpet.
This type of person is not rare in medicine...there is always one, more often than not two, in a hospital section - who have succumbed to their god-complex... luckily most are wonderfully Awesome♥️♥️♥️
Thankyou for this explaination.
This is why I always research extensively online about my ailments and always pressure GP's to refer me to a specialist when dealing with GP's. I live in London and with the NHS most GP's are just trying to be as cheap and stingy as possible these days. Most GP's don't actually know anything (that you can't figure out with the internet).You typically need specialists and that can take forever unless you are literally dying. The NHS is under a lot of stress to the point where most GP's are willing to overlook patient care for the sake of "getting it done and moving on to the next patient". DOCTORS NURSES AND HEALTHWORKERS IN THE UK ARE OFTEN NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR SHORTCOMINGS AS THEY ARE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN MANIPULATE THINGS TO MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK INNOCENT;THEY ARE IN HIGH DEMAND AND THEY HAVE A CULTURE OF HELPING ONE ANOTHER EVADE SCRUTINY UNLESS THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION TO ONE ANOTHER FOR POLITICAL REASONS.
Thanks I watched the documentary about him in the UK and your analysis is great. When the police caught him he was so arrogant he thought he was above the law, but when they started to show him all the evidence they have gathered his whole demeanour changed when he knew it was over.
The best channel on its field
Dr. Grande, thanks again 4 answering my darlie routier questions with a fantastic video! im sorry, but i have another question; have u done an analysis of diane downs? i dont understand why she raised her kids seemingly well for 8(ish) years and then became psychopathic and murderous?? thanks again for everything!!!
0:53 it's amazing how much Shipman looks like elderly Sigmund Freud in this picture lol
Both jews
@@sonsen25
According to the Times, Shipman was not Jewish.
@@domenikschmitz334 crypto Jew.
@@sonsen25
How do you know?
Just from physical Features?
@@domenikschmitz334 I've been studying the Jew for many years.
So interesting to get a deeper insight into Harold Shipman. I remember when this all happened. It was totally shocking. Could you also look at the British serial killer, Dennis Neilson, who claimed he killed as he did not want the people to leave him. He had a very interesting childhood and life for that fact. Great video by the way.
Well this is gonna be GOOD ( great insight for me on a personal level) thankyou once again DR G
On a personal level?? Are you working in the health system? Stay healthy. 🌟
@@mrs.reluctant4095 yes I was and worked alongside him....this post is so on point in many things but the total tally is around 500, I spoke to 2 detectives on the case who mentioned this, unbelievable just doesn't cover it at all
@@franmellor9843 😱 (speechless)
Off topic can do you a video on single mother and single son, house holds please.
Before Shipman, there was John Bodkin Adams, another, British doctor who had the same pattern of sending, rich patients particularly, to an early death!! Shipman was loved by his elderly patients as he, "..did things the old way" (house calls, etc.) I am shocked at the way the British NHS is organised. At our home in the U.S., G.P.s & family practitioners deferred to specialists (after all, we spend longer, much longer learning the art/vocation as we prepare for the care & service we provide). In the U.K., specialists can only recommend the course of treatment & medication but it's a G.P. who makes the final decision!! The other thing that needs to change in the U.K. is the huge stigma associated with mental health issues. I remember trying to obtain mental health services in the U.K. for a patient who already had more than one mental health diagnosis & I was told that there simply weren't enough specialists in the U.K. compared to the number of patients requiring mental health care... He & Primrose had a strange relationship & he made it no secret that, were she not pregnant outside of wedlock, he never would have married her. Like Betty (Broderick) Primrose was always the first mother to volunteer to bring snacks to school sports games yet police officers who collected evidence from their home (most notably the typewriter with which he had forged Kathleen Grundy's will) said that it was filthy & full of trash bags! Apologies for the muddled (& long) comment & thank you again for another excellent vlog.
Thanks for covering this case. Very enlightening. If you are planning on doing any more UK analysis subjects. I would like to recommend Mary Bell. Her case is rather intriguing (to me) given that what she did in her childhood. After her release from prison she gave birth to a daughter who went on to have a daughter of her own. The courts have granted them all lifelong anonymity. I wonder if the recidivism rate is lower if someone is a child when they kill and are 'incarcerated' as opposed to an adult who commits a similar crime. Thank you again for continuing to provide such great content for those of us who are interested in this sort of thing.
There's an excellent BBC documentary about Mary Bell here on RUclips, part of a series looking at child crime. She had an appalling early life - her mother was a dominatrix prostitute with serious mental health issues, who had "sold" Mary to another women when she was a kid, and Mary's elder sister had to get her back. Her mother then tried to throw her out of windows etc. Mary later said that her mother had forced her to engage in sexual acts with her mother's customers from the age of 4. Mary killed those kids by strangulation - it seems that she was mimicking the S&M sex her mother had subjected her to.
My mate knew him (via his work), he reckons he was a lovely bloke, much friendlier than other doctors he knew.
Shipman behaved like a toddler in police interviews: refused to engage verbally & actually sat with his back to the officers whilst they asked questions! At least, he did in the documentary I saw, with video of the interrogation.
Either, he felt superior to them & didn't need to engage, so he showed his contempt, or he simply couldn't face the enormity of his crimes (out of sight, out of mind - like a small child covering their eyes).
Perhaps, he was a psychopath with vulnerable narcissism; a cold, emotionless man with a powerful & superior veneer.
Underneath that, a depressed man permanently trapped at 17, reliving his mother's death. Superficially charming, but thought most beneath him.
this series is fascinating, while on English serial killers, take a look at Beverley allitt, a maternity nurse in the early 90’s, I’d love to hear your analysis.
Excellent and very interesting episode Dr Grande. Greetings from South Africa
Thanks for the video Dr grande, In my opinion psychopaths are clever and cold minded people, yet they also have a Achilles heel and that is the arrogance of believing to be superior in every single way , its curious that they are so smart and cunning that they even fool themselves without even noticing and end up in prison.
I was a nurse for 30 years in a hospital setting. One of the things I learned was how doctors protect one another. Only when a incompetent physician had multiple complaints , was it investigated. They would defend him to the end.
Truth, Mary DeLong, veracity confirmed.
Dr Grande's dry sense of humour, that is still done tastefully, cracks me up 👍
I seem to remember him being somewhat offended when he was arrested.
Well, Doctor...I said to myself I was only gonna' watch one more video...that was two videos ago. Thank you kindly for an informative and fascinating look into the cases of these horrible mental disorders and into some truly tormented people...Nature or Nurture...a little of both and sometimes just plain evil...🤠
I know a guy that used to hang out with him back in the day (I’m from Manchester). Said he liked a drink and was extremely popular in his local area, but that he always seemed odd to him, very cold and unemotional about things.
He went to his house once and said that it was incredibly messy and looked like it was owned by a hoarder.
what this video doesn't include is that towards the end several of hs patients suspected, feared, and dreaded him dropping by to 'see how they were getting on' which was usually the last time they were seen alive. He killed several people who knew that he had come to kill them it is believed, which must have been a grotesque scenario.
Yes, four pensioners, wasn’t it? They were watching him. He picked them off one by one.
He was able to so quickly kill one while the other went to check on something. It looked like she had fallen asleep. Diabolical evil.
I grew up in Denton, just five minutes up the road from Hyde, and a lot of my classmates in primary school knew him from him treating members of their family. I remember the day he hung himself because I was out shopping in Hyde and there were journalists stopping people to ask their opinions on his death. A lot of people say he chose to kill himself on that particular day so his wife would still get either his pension or insurance (I can't remember which one).
As a Brit 🇬🇧 it gives me great pride to see Shipman smash the record 🥲 God speed Harry 🫡
Please can you do an analysis of British nurse Beverly Allitt.
Thank you. Love your channel.
I’m a new subscriber and I love your channel! I’ve been binge watching your videos at night. Can you do Bryce Laspisa? This case has always baffled me.
Dr. Harold Shipman's story scares me as someone aspiring to be in the medical field, I grew up around hostility and traumatic events that I'm still scarred by and still trying to get over. I've been relentlessly bullied by my peers, adults as someone still underage, and also by family members, often times some of them going out of their way to make me feel bad about myself while also letting me know how they're feeling awful about themselves too because of these circumstances - us both feeling powerless as their feelings and urges to hurt me is too strong and me left wondering why can't they allow themselves to act better even towards someone they perceive as absolutely horrible - insinuating it's because of me that they're feeling this way which messed with my mind ever since that kind of behaviour directed specifically to me started. I've noticed I attract a lot of negativity towards me and I know I need to change that, I know I need to work on helping people feel at ease with me, I also feel like people refuse to let me change that as they want to dig a hole, throw me in there, and monkey guard the exit. I feel as though I wasn't allowed to be anyone other than this ever since peers realised just how different and odd I was. I know I can prosper even through these adversaries, however I can't fully silence the voices in the back of my mind wanting so badly for me to fail. I don't fully understand the hatred some people feel for me, in spite of all my efforts and all my actions that comes naturally that prove that I am a good person.
Ripped from the headlines... BA BA! Law and Order: Criminal Intent.
That was a good one- great actor doing the "Shipman" character.
Hey Todd, have you seen Mr Robot? I would really like to know what you think of it.
How odd. I was born in Nottingham, too, I remember this case but didn't know that he was born there. I lived on Shipman Terrace (long gone).
The doc is slinging the content! Good stuff!
I think you’re correct about this guy’s need for control and of course, being a doctor is a great career choice when you want the ultimate control of life vs death. I have a healthcare provider background and see so many in the biz that got/get addicted to it. Great video. 👍🏼
Just a note: I think shipman was traumatised by the feeling of having no control over his mother’s death, so he killed his victims in a similar way so that he could be the one in control over life and death (I hope that makes sense c:)
We will never know, only he knew why. But his experience with his mother also might indicate that he justified his murder by telling himself he was showing them mercy.
When the story broke a colleague of mine told me that she had left work going directly to her mums house as she was unwell and she was met by Dr Shipman at her mums house about to administer an injection. As a nurse still in her uniform she questioned what it was and he didn’t give it or perhaps gave her something else, I don’t remember how the story went but I guess the point being if she hadn’t arrived when she did it’s possible her mother could have been another victim. I found it hard to believe her story but she was from the area so its possible her mum could have been a patient of his. I think the reason he got away with it and on such a large scale for so long was because he was a doctor. People trust their doctor. As nurses we always said there was a blanket of protection around doctors that nurse never had but I still find it hard to believe that no one had any suspicions when patients actually died in his surgery. It takes great courage to speak out its easier to keep quiet thank goodness for the doctor who did eventually speak out and perhaps saved life’s in doing so and Shipmans own greed blew his cover.
In one documentary it was mentioned how the class system made doctors, lawyers, curates word be virtually unquestioned. For Hundreds of years. That when he graduated medical school something like only 5% of the UK population went on to higher learning or higher professional jobs. There was a natural or demanded turning over of power to that class. I think that still happens even now.
The same documentary believes he may have murdered over 500 patients.
This is terrifying...You would hope that doctors go into the profession to make lives better :( Thank goodness he was caught; if only it had been sooner. Great video as always, thank you!
I’ve been a practicing psychiatrist for 30 years, having switched from family medicine; after watching this and thinking back, it would have been much easier to get away with what he did in the 1990’s and early 2000’s. Now, we have National prescriber controlled substance databases, death reviews whenever a patient dies, Adverse Outcomes that are electronic, and numerous other failsafes. It’s not perfect but he would have been caught quickly today and had no legal access to heroin
To explain the use of moderate severe depression this is used in a number of UK scales, because the primary set of questions are about the features and the secondary is about the function. So you may have severe depression from the features but if you can still function in some aspects of life you are given the modifier "moderate" to the severe title. My own GP once explained my own moderately severe depression diagnosis as "just because you can go to work doesn't mean you should". Same guy signed me off until when I was asked "do you want to be at work?" my response was "hell, no" because that indicated I was enjoying my home life enough that the depression was resolving. My other GP decided I was getting better from a later episode when I came to him with the NG protocol to deal with the fact I was loosing 1.5kg per week...that I could juggle the math for the protocol meant I wasn't as fuggy brained
I would love it if you would do a video on Paul John Knowles bka the Casanova Killer. I'd love to hear your insights regarding his audio tapes that he sent to his lawyer.
You should look at Dr. Kavorkian. I personally agree with his philosophy and it would be a great discussion.
My cousin, Lorraine, still says how lovely he was. She was a patient of his. She was in her 20s/30s at the time. She is famously ditzy.
Despite being a serial killer, he was a very good doctor and respected by all his many patients...
I just posted on your video released 26th April 2020 (my birthday) a request for you to make a video about Harold Shipman. Then I thought I ought to actually check if you've made one and here it is from only two days before!
Great case for a psycho forensic evaluation
Thank you for doing my suggestion.
You are amazing dr. Please can you do Dennis nilsen, fred and rose west or the moors murderers
In the enquiry held after theses events it was discovered that NOT ONE of his victims had anything seriously wrong with them, so no question of “ mercy killings” here. With the final killing the victim’s daughter was a lawyer and knew instantly that the will was a forgery. Also the local funeral parlour flagged up their concerns as they were burying far mor of Shipman’s patients than any other local doctor.When the police visited his family home they noted it was filthy and the carpet was so tacky with dirt that their feet adhered to the floor. I seem to remember that it was thought he might have murdered up to 400 patients over his career.
Hmmm.... House calls... I'll bet he was assessing his patient's worldly possessions....to discern which patients had the most.
His surgery was about 15 minute drive away. It was SOOOOOO shocking.
I’d like to see what your take on Jack Kevorkian might be.
Kevorkian is considered a hero by many. That is something often forgotten. Dr. Grande didn't mention that heroin is a legal painkiller in Britain. Another interesting fact is that Demoral has been discontinued as a pain killer other than use immediately after surgery for 72 hours. Pt. Is then switched to another opiate/,opioid. This because it was discovered that meperridine
When people talk about the banality of evil then Shipman for me stands near the top. I live in the same city this occured back in 98/99 and recall seeing him being interviewed by the press outside his surgery, but never heard him speak, your just see him talking but not hear his voice. I found a clip on youtube of him speaking and he's very well spoken a little smug, but you'd never in a million years think he was doing what he did. We all say about serial killers how they blend in but it's even more stunning with him. In fact it's frightening how benal it is. You imagine something would give him away, but no strange smiles or thousand yard stare. It's one of the most stunning cases I've ever come across. If you get chance watch the short of him talking on world in action from the 1980s then years later after her been found out in 1998.
Dr Grande. Could you please cover a British Child Serial Killer called, Beverly Allit? ' The Angel of Death' 1991. She is in 'Rampton Psychiatric Hospital, Nottinghamshire , UK...I would appreciate your clinical expertise on Munchausen ...She was/is a very dangerous individual. Thank you.
Great video! love your videos👏👏👏