Looking for information that correlates PDA and adoption and early childhood trauma (the complex ptsd developmental trauma.) seems pervasive that adoptees are diagnosed with “RAD” but basically it makes more sense to look at the demand avoidance as stemming from anxiety. Especially because anxiety for adoptees is sooooo high.
This is an okay-ish overview in the first part, until she starts talking about changing “kiddos” to not “miss out” on neurotypical stuff. Autistic individuals simply do not feel the need to do neurotypical things, for the most part. They are not missing out on this stuff. This researcher needs to RESARCH more before they continue to propagate neurotypical perspectives on gullible and exhausted parents.
As someone who has a minor in psychology and counseling and a bachelors in special education I believe I have children on the spectrum. I have had referrals from the pediatrician but have had a difficult time being seen by a professional due to the high volume of patients. We haven’t had any official testing but definitely have conditions impacting home and school life. I feel like I have no resources for help but cannot deny that I’m seeing all kinds of signs and symptoms. As far as PDA, we have been researching it for years and believed it to be a version of ASD. Unfortunately, we have no one in our area that I can find that can help us. We experience everything in your video and yes it is validating. I am too exhausted to be experiencing a normal family dynamic while also researching and finding solutions from my college knowledge base. I am pioneering it along with you.
Just make sure you are accessing autistic researchers of autism; non-autistic researchers have a relatively high level of bias as they are not capable of experiencing this differently abled state. For example, if you hear them use words like “condition” or “disorder,” you can tell right away that they are not autistic. Autistic people would never consider themselves “disordered.”
My son desperately needs an evaluation but even looking at the Pda America website I can't seem to find anyone in my area. I am a hundred percent positive he is Pda with an extensive difficult school history and in home behaviors that were simply baffling until I found at peace parents.
Have heard PDA called Perceived Demand Avoidance. Have had this especially when it came to school work or sometimes with family planned events and maintaining finances. Anything in my life can become a Perceived Demand and then comes the Avoidance portion. Even reading a book I bought that I had a huge excitement and there it sits because it turns into a Demand. Why??? It's awful to have to live this way. Then comes the horrible anxiety that hangs over me and the failure that's felt.
My friend Lisa you might evolve in time to be patient with yourself. It's ok that a book rests on a shelf unread for even a long while, one day you will have the impulse to read it, no problem there. Everything can wait until the exact time comes that one finally does it. I'm sure you've got other important things to do in the meantime. It's a question of allowing diversifiication of activities, why not... Best, Yana
Yea to the PDA definition and characteristics; the “treatment” part is questionable and worrisome; you CANNOT make neurodivergent people into neurotypical; that’s pure bias
My 6 year old has autism and PDA is the only thing that 100% describes his behaviors. We are on our 10th major referral at school and 3rd out of school suspension. He is in 1st grade in a full time gifted class with only 6 kids in the classroom. Myself along with the entire team at his school are at a lost as to how to cope and help him with his behaviors in a school setting. Where are you located? PDA ABSOLUTELY needs to be more educated to everyone.
I'd like to point out, weren't gifted people always difficult? They were well known for that! Isaac Newton for example, he was difficult to deal with. But he gave a lot to the world. I think gifted people just have more extreme talents and more extreme character flaws. It is all more intense with them. But they are valuable members of their communities.
Mental health professionals can be and often are guilty of biases. Im not trying to be negative or trolling- I think it's important to not assume every therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, Healthcare provider in general is empathetic and good at their job. A lot of power and control focused people enter these fields. Seeking help can be traumatic because of these types of people being a vulnerable person/family "help" when they finally reach out for help.
Also want to say thank you for the information. Demand avoidance is so difficult to navigate and accommodate. I experience it and I am still sometimes feeling offended and thinking just do the thing! With my son who is exhibiting pda reactions daily now that he's entered school and demands in his life are suddenly numerous. I hate how chronically difficult this is going to make his life (I know attitudes and understanding improvement will make his experience better than mine has been. But still very scared for the things he'll face or miss out on) hate how others will often miss out on knowing him and how kind and curious and funny he is because he can lash out or argue relentlessly to avoid anything but not in a predictable way.
I definitely agree, it's an unfortunate truth. And the same with other adults who work with children as well, such as educators... These students need lots of warm, caring, non-judgmental people in all aspects of their lives.
Why “unfortunate”? It is really confusing how you use qualifiers. As an autistic person and proud PDA-er, I don’t see this as a problem. On the one hand, you call this a “uber-power” and on the other hand, you want to “treat” it. I am really worried when you speak about webinars and how you propagate such borderline gaslighting. If you want to help others, join autistic groups and organizations led by autists and start to truly understand from the inside out. After a while, you’ll realize that a more complex and humane approach is needed. Or better yet, you’ll realize that “changing” us is an erroneous idea.
My daughter's is so severe that you can make her fight for the opposite of what she wants by demanding she do what she wanted to do. It's been like this since she was born. She was literally like this as a baby. I used to say, "She's an infant and already wants to be treated like an adult." She didnt want to be held, she wanted me to *hold her like she was walking* untill she could actually walk. Then, she never wanted "up" What is the difference between ODD and PDA?
Thanks for your comment! I personally would never diagnose a child with ODD - there is usually WAY more going on for them. That label is never helpful anyway and I find adults start working with a lot of bias, even unintentionally. We know both are behavioural disorders. Based on the DSM’s (the diagnostic bible professionals often use to diagnose things) definition of ODD, we see it as persistent patterns of angry or irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behaviour, or vindictiveness. Common symptoms include frequent loss of temper, defiance toward authority figures, and a proclivity for spiteful behaviour. Treatment usually involves a variety of things that would include behaviour therapy and parent training. PDA isn’t recognized in the DSM and is often considered a sub-type of autism. For these children, they often want to do good but they have an overwhelming need to resist everyday demands and expectations, leading to high levels of anxiety. Here it’s more management than treatment per se, where we adapt our communication styles to reduce the perceived demands and minimize anxiety. Any therapeutic support is very individualized (vs. pretty standard treatment for ODD). They both certainly have challenges with regulating emotions and so we might see lots of anxiety, temper outbursts, mood swings. Both are definitely associated with anxiety. ODD seems more situational though, where PDA is more pervasive and is really linked to an intolerance of uncertainty or even just the perception of demands. When we look at key differences: • ODD is more a standalone diagnosis (but often seen with ADHD), and PDA is part of autism. • ODD focuses on oppositionality towards authority figures, with defiance and vindictiveness. PDA centres around an avoidance of everyday demands.
I could usually only get my child to do things using reverse psychology. If she thought I didn't want her to, she would rush to do it. If the food was on my plate, or apparently intended for someone else, she'd eat it. But she got wise to it as she got older and even the playful games became a demand.
I'm autistic and a researcher working at a Cal Poly. Autistic practitioners also call it "Personal Demand for Autonomy". I think this all comes through a pathological lens and that's a mistake. We autistic researchers are beginning to prove that most of our stress is caused by the rigidity of non-autistic folx. For example, their insistance on being able to lie, manipulate, and cheat.
Babies don't become demand avoidant because of NT society. They are trying to calm their jangled nerves. Societal expectations exacerbates it but doesn't cause it if it was there from birth.
Personally I loved it! I disregarded the form and went to the core of what was said. But PDA is one of my restricted interests so my motivation to listen is high.
I know I am likely opening a huge can of worms here, but curious as to what makes it annoying? I will do my best - I am always open to feedback! - but "kiddos" has admittedly been part of my vocabulary for almost 30 years now as an affectionate way to refer to children. It is also part of my way of being with the families I work with (i.e., not some stuffy overly clinical expert who knows what's best for children and their families). Nonetheless, I want to be culturally responsive, so definitely open to specific feedback!
@@dr.carolinebuzanko Maybe it doesn't bother other people. Using it three or four times in one video is just grating. I noticed it at first with my cousin who worked with autistic children. Just sounds like kind of cloying "special ed" talk, like it's too risky to talk about them like they're "regular" kids or children. I don't think I'd like it if adults talked about me that way. I don't like "doggo" either, or if a vet kept saying "kitties" instead of cats.
@@argusfleibeit1165 Right. Why not just call them kids, or children? I don't know if I've ever heard a professional of any kind use "kiddo" to describe a non-disabled child.
The biggest issue with all of this... you keep saying "children" and "child". Children grow up to become adults if they live long enough. While it can be annoying for parents and induces more anxiety due to the negative responses received... it can be horrendous as an adult when you don't work out a way in life that you can exist with PDA and have some sense of peace and achievement. That isn't ever going to be "fixed" due to any intervention in childhood.
True, but learning how to reduce demands for our children reduces nervous system activation and helps them avoid burnout and PTSD. That will then help them get to adulthood.
@@lord-lala No, it won't. The demands are very different as a child and an adult. Also, a child is having a hard time understanding what is going on and making sense of things. The child finds some way to comply just to get by and that doesn't address actual demands or the anxiety or compulsion. Speaking as an actually autistic and PDA person.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Looking for information that correlates PDA and adoption and early childhood trauma (the complex ptsd developmental trauma.) seems pervasive that adoptees are diagnosed with “RAD” but basically it makes more sense to look at the demand avoidance as stemming from anxiety. Especially because anxiety for adoptees is sooooo high.
This is a fantastic overview. Thanks so much.
This is an okay-ish overview in the first part, until she starts talking about changing “kiddos” to not “miss out” on neurotypical stuff. Autistic individuals simply do not feel the need to do neurotypical things, for the most part. They are not missing out on this stuff. This researcher needs to RESARCH more before they continue to propagate neurotypical perspectives on gullible and exhausted parents.
As someone who has a minor in psychology and counseling and a bachelors in special education I believe I have children on the spectrum. I have had referrals from the pediatrician but have had a difficult time being seen by a professional due to the high volume of patients. We haven’t had any official testing but definitely have conditions impacting home and school life. I feel like I have no resources for help but cannot deny that I’m seeing all kinds of signs and symptoms. As far as PDA, we have been researching it for years and believed it to be a version of ASD. Unfortunately, we have no one in our area that I can find that can help us. We experience everything in your video and yes it is validating. I am too exhausted to be experiencing a normal family dynamic while also researching and finding solutions from my college knowledge base. I am pioneering it along with you.
Just make sure you are accessing autistic researchers of autism; non-autistic researchers have a relatively high level of bias as they are not capable of experiencing this differently abled state. For example, if you hear them use words like “condition” or “disorder,” you can tell right away that they are not autistic. Autistic people would never consider themselves “disordered.”
Great informative video. So comprehensive. This is so difficult to navigate.
My son desperately needs an evaluation but even looking at the Pda America website I can't seem to find anyone in my area. I am a hundred percent positive he is Pda with an extensive difficult school history and in home behaviors that were simply baffling until I found at peace parents.
I'm in the same boat 💯
Have heard PDA called Perceived Demand Avoidance. Have had this especially when it came to school work or sometimes with family planned events and maintaining finances. Anything in my life can become a Perceived Demand and then comes the Avoidance portion. Even reading a book I bought that I had a huge excitement and there it sits because it turns into a Demand. Why??? It's awful to have to live this way. Then comes the horrible anxiety that hangs over me and the failure that's felt.
You are definitely not alone ...I share the same experience all day everyday it seems
My friend Lisa you might evolve in time to be patient with yourself. It's ok that a book rests on a shelf unread for even a long while, one day you will have the impulse to read it, no problem there. Everything can wait until the exact time comes that one finally does it. I'm sure you've got other important things to do in the meantime. It's a question of allowing diversifiication of activities, why not... Best, Yana
You nailed it in every area! Thank you
Yea to the PDA definition and characteristics; the “treatment” part is questionable and worrisome; you CANNOT make neurodivergent people into neurotypical; that’s pure bias
Thank You for this!!!
Good information. thank u
I’m a fan. Hello from New Zealand!
With caution though
My 6 year old has autism and PDA is the only thing that 100% describes his behaviors. We are on our 10th major referral at school and 3rd out of school suspension. He is in 1st grade in a full time gifted class with only 6 kids in the classroom. Myself along with the entire team at his school are at a lost as to how to cope and help him with his behaviors in a school setting. Where are you located? PDA ABSOLUTELY needs to be more educated to everyone.
You're right - we need so much more widespread understanding to support these kiddos (and protect their self-esteem)! I am in Calgary, Canada.
Omg my kid is exactly in this situation as well and same age 😳
I'd like to point out, weren't gifted people always difficult? They were well known for that! Isaac Newton for example, he was difficult to deal with. But he gave a lot to the world. I think gifted people just have more extreme talents and more extreme character flaws. It is all more intense with them. But they are valuable members of their communities.
@@yanamarte4542 PDA is not a "character flaw".
Mental health professionals can be and often are guilty of biases. Im not trying to be negative or trolling- I think it's important to not assume every therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, Healthcare provider in general is empathetic and good at their job. A lot of power and control focused people enter these fields. Seeking help can be traumatic because of these types of people being a vulnerable person/family "help" when they finally reach out for help.
Also want to say thank you for the information. Demand avoidance is so difficult to navigate and accommodate. I experience it and I am still sometimes feeling offended and thinking just do the thing! With my son who is exhibiting pda reactions daily now that he's entered school and demands in his life are suddenly numerous. I hate how chronically difficult this is going to make his life (I know attitudes and understanding improvement will make his experience better than mine has been. But still very scared for the things he'll face or miss out on) hate how others will often miss out on knowing him and how kind and curious and funny he is because he can lash out or argue relentlessly to avoid anything but not in a predictable way.
I definitely agree, it's an unfortunate truth. And the same with other adults who work with children as well, such as educators... These students need lots of warm, caring, non-judgmental people in all aspects of their lives.
Why “unfortunate”? It is really confusing how you use qualifiers. As an autistic person and proud PDA-er, I don’t see this as a problem. On the one hand, you call this a “uber-power” and on the other hand, you want to “treat” it. I am really worried when you speak about webinars and how you propagate such borderline gaslighting. If you want to help others, join autistic groups and organizations led by autists and start to truly understand from the inside out. After a while, you’ll realize that a more complex and humane approach is needed. Or better yet, you’ll realize that “changing” us is an erroneous idea.
My daughter's is so severe that you can make her fight for the opposite of what she wants by demanding she do what she wanted to do. It's been like this since she was born. She was literally like this as a baby. I used to say, "She's an infant and already wants to be treated like an adult." She didnt want to be held, she wanted me to *hold her like she was walking* untill she could actually walk. Then, she never wanted "up"
What is the difference between ODD and PDA?
Thanks for your comment! I personally would never diagnose a child with ODD - there is usually WAY more going on for them. That label is never helpful anyway and I find adults start working with a lot of bias, even unintentionally.
We know both are behavioural disorders. Based on the DSM’s (the diagnostic bible professionals often use to diagnose things) definition of ODD, we see it as persistent patterns of angry or irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behaviour, or vindictiveness. Common symptoms include frequent loss of temper, defiance toward authority figures, and a proclivity for spiteful behaviour. Treatment usually involves a variety of things that would include behaviour therapy and parent training.
PDA isn’t recognized in the DSM and is often considered a sub-type of autism. For these children, they often want to do good but they have an overwhelming need to resist everyday demands and expectations, leading to high levels of anxiety. Here it’s more management than treatment per se, where we adapt our communication styles to reduce the perceived demands and minimize anxiety. Any therapeutic support is very individualized (vs. pretty standard treatment for ODD).
They both certainly have challenges with regulating emotions and so we might see lots of anxiety, temper outbursts, mood swings. Both are definitely associated with anxiety. ODD seems more situational though, where PDA is more pervasive and is really linked to an intolerance of uncertainty or even just the perception of demands.
When we look at key differences:
• ODD is more a standalone diagnosis (but often seen with ADHD), and PDA is part of autism.
• ODD focuses on oppositionality towards authority figures, with defiance and vindictiveness. PDA centres around an avoidance of everyday demands.
My dad is like this. It's the only way I can beat him in chess.
I could usually only get my child to do things using reverse psychology. If she thought I didn't want her to, she would rush to do it. If the food was on my plate, or apparently intended for someone else, she'd eat it. But she got wise to it as she got older and even the playful games became a demand.
You’re dealing with neurodivergence; research it;
Personal Demand Autonomy. Wanting to control your own existence and behavior.
01:48 it's a sub category? Of autism? Or is it a subcategory of autism?
Is exposure therapy ever used with this?
As an AUADHD with PDA Id prefer to be Pathological rather than Pervasive
I'm autistic and a researcher working at a Cal Poly. Autistic practitioners also call it "Personal Demand for Autonomy". I think this all comes through a pathological lens and that's a mistake. We autistic researchers are beginning to prove that most of our stress is caused by the rigidity of non-autistic folx. For example, their insistance on being able to lie, manipulate, and cheat.
some kids prefer to live on the street. homeless without expectations
Babies don't become demand avoidant because of NT society. They are trying to calm their jangled nerves. Societal expectations exacerbates it but doesn't cause it if it was there from birth.
I'm a PDA adult, please research me. Hlp pls lol
There is SO much filler and unnecessary verbiage in here like “you know” that it’s almost unlistenable for anyone with ASD. Plus “kiddos” UGH.
Personally I loved it! I disregarded the form and went to the core of what was said. But PDA is one of my restricted interests so my motivation to listen is high.
Can we not call them "kiddos"-- so annoying.
I know I am likely opening a huge can of worms here, but curious as to what makes it annoying? I will do my best - I am always open to feedback! - but "kiddos" has admittedly been part of my vocabulary for almost 30 years now as an affectionate way to refer to children. It is also part of my way of being with the families I work with (i.e., not some stuffy overly clinical expert who knows what's best for children and their families). Nonetheless, I want to be culturally responsive, so definitely open to specific feedback!
@@dr.carolinebuzanko Maybe it doesn't bother other people. Using it three or four times in one video is just grating. I noticed it at first with my cousin who worked with autistic children. Just sounds like kind of cloying "special ed" talk, like it's too risky to talk about them like they're "regular" kids or children. I don't think I'd like it if adults talked about me that way. I don't like "doggo" either, or if a vet kept saying "kitties" instead of cats.
Kiddos are part of a nutritious breakfast 🥣
@@argusfleibeit1165 Right. Why not just call them kids, or children? I don't know if I've ever heard a professional of any kind use "kiddo" to describe a non-disabled child.
Take a shot every time someone says or types kiddos!
The biggest issue with all of this... you keep saying "children" and "child". Children grow up to become adults if they live long enough. While it can be annoying for parents and induces more anxiety due to the negative responses received... it can be horrendous as an adult when you don't work out a way in life that you can exist with PDA and have some sense of peace and achievement. That isn't ever going to be "fixed" due to any intervention in childhood.
Yes! I totally agree with you! I am an autistic female adult with PDA and I wish that people would address not just children, but adults as well!
True, but learning how to reduce demands for our children reduces nervous system activation and helps them avoid burnout and PTSD. That will then help them get to adulthood.
@@lord-lala No, it won't. The demands are very different as a child and an adult. Also, a child is having a hard time understanding what is going on and making sense of things. The child finds some way to comply just to get by and that doesn't address actual demands or the anxiety or compulsion. Speaking as an actually autistic and PDA person.
It is wrong to view this behavior as wrong. It is natural for humans not to comply with slavery.