*UPDATE* Tati has uploaded an interview with OG beauty guru, Michelle Phan, where she talks about the events that we talked about in this video. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/EBVCiT7J0dU/видео.htmlsi=hJVAERhH5uKaADcj
@@jenluv what did you think of the interview? For me it kind of felt like Tati was trying to minimise her involvement with Jeffrey and James, like these relationships happened to her and she didn’t have agency
I'm realizing that the difference between Tati and Gabriel Zamora's reactions to the gummy vitamins situation is probably rooted in a difference in how they view sponsorships. It's pretty obvious that most influencers (including James, Gabriel, and Nikita) view sponsorships as business transactions, as just how they get paid. They see it as just reading a script and cashing a check. They don't have a connection in any way to the product, they just say the words. So, of course Nikita wouldn't care if Gabriel promoted a competitor, because it doesn't mean anything. Whereas it's clear that Tati sees sponsorships as an honest review of a product. That you only take and do sponsorships for brands you love and use and trust. She saw them as meaningful, so her giving James promo code was her way of supporting someone she cared about. She views James promoting her product as endorsing their relationship, so his promoting a different brand was a betrayal. You can argue which perspective is correct, but in retrospect this is really just people talking past each other.
Oh definitely. I think Tati tries her best to be a good and honest person (my personal opinion is she’s not great still) but fails in several ways because she’s blinkered by her, well, privilege.
True but I still think in that situation with James it was a little ridiculous to get that mad at a 19 year old when u are 37 you know? Also vitamins that grow your hair don’t actually work so it was all bull
I was a regular viewer of tati's before bye sister and I remember her being VERY selective of her sponsorships. They were rare but it was a product/brand that she loved for months or years. So I think your point makes total sense that she views sponsorships as honest and absolute love reviews
I see and mostly agree with your point but i do want to note that there is a fetishization of straight men in the gay community, in the same way that straight men fetishize lesbians. It's not everyone, but it's there for sure
@@jenniferromano5152it was lost before that tbh, but yes, he fuelled the fire. I actually think Jeffree had something, more than one thing probably, on James, but he’s so useless at being a communicator in any useful way he totally screwed it up. After the tide turned, Jeffree went with it because he’s too worried about losing his income (and my suspicions are, he’s done the same to many people himself anyway).
Being online when Bye Sister dropped actually changed my life I cannot believe how it’s completely left the beauty community and changed the social media landscape. The fallout is incredible we’re still watching it happen.
It's crazy how this series has been 4.5 hours, and it's not even done yet😂 I cant even begin to imagine how much time this has taken you, Jen. Thank you
Someone telling you they're an empath and they feel your pain when you're breaking down to them is not an empath they're a narcissist and they're making your pain about them
I never understood why everyone seemed so convinced by James' "No more lies" because when he showed the texts he had exchanged with some of those young men illustrating his "innocence" ---those texts read to me as so awful. The way he talked to the other person was so manipulative, and applying pressure on the other person to make them feel guilty as though they had done something wrong by figuring out they were not interested. It was disgusting and gross. It read to me exactly how my abuser communicated, with overwhelming long texts sent rapid fire pressuring me to see my own actions and my own feelings as the problem and trying to turn my own words against me. I have never understood why I never really saw anyone raise that issue. Honestly "No more lies" convinced me that James was manipulative, self-interested/narcissistic, and abusive far more than anything Tati or Jstar put out. James' texts showed who he is. He was not interested in the wellbeing of the young men he was interacting with, he was not interested in helping them explore their sexuality, he was pressuring them to give him what he wanted whether that was affection or admission that they were horrible people who deceived him--because he can't accept rejection.
You're right, I never see people talk about that online much. I never understood why after NML people were suddenly like "He's innocent of EVERYTHING!" The only thing he showed was how inappropriate he was with those boys (which was Tati's whole point, mind you) and that JS was two faced (no one is surprised by this). Those texts look like someone who is dubious about concent and definitely isn't opposed to coercing someone into consenting.
Right?? I knew that was going to happen the moment that video dropped because he had too many followers for them not to forgive him and it pissed me off so much. I never even watched that video because I knew he was still trash and he was still manipulative, but now that narrative was going to be buried and I didn't want to watch that happen.
@@ml609 I am kind of a boomer when it comes to the beauty community. I wear some eyeliner and mascara MAYBE 10 times a year. I have never been a consumer of any of the people involved in all this drama's content. That being said, I saw James Charles video, without all of the context, when all of it was going down, and was hella triggered reading the messages. Even though I dont have an opinion on Jstar, James saying, "I knew the twins weren't involved because they were some of the first people to make sure I was okay." Is not all that convincing to me. I could be wrong about this, and will definitely educate myself, but a*users get protected by their victims all the time. Especially when somebody brings the situation up before they are ready to deal with it.
Honestly, Tati should have trademarked “OMG. Time and place” & “…and you did it at my birthday dinner.” I still laugh anytime I hear those phrases. 😂😂😂
To be fair, she likely would have spent more on attorneys than she made in merch. It’s not like other people would actually pay to license those phrases. I am sure we’ll see that Jools gal kind of have to run demure & mindful into the ground, in order to really make it financially worthwhile. Trademarking is meant to be an investment, once you protect yourself, you may be boxed in to a very specific niche if you want to get your moneys worth. My dad spent his life trying to copyright or trademark everything he did, even tho as a visual artist, his signed paintings automatically got copyright protection. He wasted so much money protecting himself, not realizing you have to be able to push product if you don’t already have loads of extra money. The government, quite frankly, doesn’t care about low level IP theft. The protections are largely designed to protect commerce & trade in the big picture, esp goods & services that we actually need. It is very unfair, but social media is a creative world that has no one limiting how many people get to participate, it’s a morass of mostly tiny economies that won’t impact the GDP or affect our daily lives. It’s a bit much for internet creators to think that IP enforcement should center on their funny sayings.
Shane Dawson calling himself an "empath" while anyone he's putting others against a "psychopath" or "narcissist" is one of the biggest ironies of the world.
This! A true empath (besides probably not telling people they’re an empath) wouldn’t have flippantly thrown away a concern about someone else hurting themselves, even if that person is a narcissist.
I nvr followed him cos he gives me the "oh, I wanna act all nice and innocent", but is actually a crappy person irl.. I never liked him.. he always gives me bad vibes...
People who call themselves empaths are never empaths. Calling yourself an empath is centering someone else’s pain on yourself, which isn’t empathic. People who really are don’t need to say it. Empathic people show it.
TOTALLY! The entire time he was the Narcissist. Oh well, he fooled us for a while. I haven’t watched him in 5 years and don’t miss his fake personality a bit.
Same! I never watched Tati, JC, or JS-but I’m here because I just keep hearing everyone reference dramageddon and I still didn’t know what it was about. It honestly sounds like some petty high school drama at its core.
I'm Tati's age and I cant imagine expecting loyalty and friendship from a 19 year old kid. She seemed really immature and naive to expect anything from a teenager. Just my opinion.
@aliciaohara8794 agreed, I'm 36 and work with a 20 year old. I wouldn't expect the same level of maturity in her. She's barely out her teens, she's going to be immature and make mistakes. I find it bizarre Tati came online to call out a teenager the way she did.
Yes, all of it is Tati’s fault. She is a grown ass woman and then tries to back pedal with the follow-up video and blame everyone else. Changed my opinion of her for sure.
💯 FACTS! Jeffree Star is not a nice person at all! That is just my opinion after watching and reading the things that he says and does! He can never just shut up!
Yeah, this is the thing, there’s all kinds of reasons someone can suddenly go cold when they’ve been apparently all “go go go” before. My brother had a tendency to be attracted to “straight boys” too, so for a long time he had a lot of bi curious flings and near romances, but they never went anywhere because they guys just weren’t ready to come out as bi (or gay in one case, 20 years after!) or were simply far more attracted to women.
@jaybee4118 I would tell your brother never to date someone who is bi otherwise get used to saying bye trust me I thought I was bi for over a decade and it's an endless stream of confusion those who are gay or lesbian really should just date other gays and lesbians for their own good
When my now husband and I started to date he said he was burned out of dating and didn’t want to anymore because they always ended up breaking up. I said “News flash, every relationship ends until you find the one that doesn’t. You just keep trying otherwise you’ll never find it”.
It doesn't matter if that's how it is to James. He felt that the rules didn't apply to him. That was the problem. It was obvious his young, stupid brain was also manipulative and controlling because he felt entitled. And it turned out there was a pattern of behavior before he became "famous" that supported how predatory he was when it came to sexual things. He didn't seem to mind taking advantage of other people or making them feel uncomfortable, or even emotionally manipulating them. It turned out that he was already a POS before his internet fame.
So, to summarize: Top-tier narcissist, master manipulator and general no-goodnik Jeffery Starr recognizes in the younger, more attractive James Charles not just an arrogant little tick but an actual rival for Starr's throne. Starr sets out on a campaign of manipulating other beauty influencers against James. It's subtle and long-term, but ultimately successful because one of Starr's talents is the ability to zero in on and exploit others' weaknesses. It might be ego, insecurity, emotional thinking, naivety, whatever, Starr could stay mostly behind the scenes while other influencers threw his bombs. And of course, James' own massive ego, greed, and lack of scruples made him a ridiculously easy target. It was the social media equivalent of watching a viper fighting a scorpion.
8:17 It's barely started and I'm already DEEPLY uncomfortable. All of the other morally questionable things aside, WHY is James talking about his sex life and ability to give b*ow jobs in detail, with hand gestures, with his FIFTEEN year old brother, who is clearly very uncomfortable, and broadcasting it to his audience that he knows is primarily young teens? It's wildly inappropriate
You see less and less boundaries between adults and children these days. All of my alarm bells go off. I wonder who was around James? As a parent, I look at them and wonder WTF???? Not in my wildest dreams could I even attempt to imagine speaking like that in front of my parents, even as a married adult. I dont ever actually speak like that, come to think of it. haha great video!
@@jaycievictory8461 yeah i have an older sister and we never talked or even joked ab that stuff before i became an adult that would be so weird it made me sad seeing his brother cringe and close off his body language cuz he was SO uncomfortable esp being posted online its bad
@@jaycievictory8461 Yes it was disgusting. He seems genuinely unaware of his actions and attitude and how it affects others. Or he’s just very selfish. Or it’s as Tati said, that much fame & money can change anyone.
His need to make it seem like a man attracted to women was also attracted to him trumps everything else. I'm even surprised he acknowledged that the guy wasn't completely straight. Because in his mind, he looks good /androgynous enough somehow that it would be enough for a straight man. That's not how that works.
i still can’t believe how entitled he was during the netflix documentary before knowing it was about counterfeit makeup. It’s insane he thinks he has more experience than a person that has had experience in the beauty industry years before he ever started doing makeup
The problem I always had with Bye Sister was not Tati calling out the behavior but why she was doing it. She wasn't doing it because she saw alarming behavior, she was doing it because she felt slighted. She didn't just call out behavior she witnessed as well, she and Jeffree made a lot of things up, which called into question not only their credibility but it allowed James to walk away cleanly, and from that point forward every allegation fell flat because of them. I also hate when people say Tati was manipulated. She was a willing participant. The more that she leans into the crunchy pipeline these days I have to wonder why are people still giving her a pass?
Right?! If James hadn’t done the Sugar Bear Hair sponsorship would she ever have called out his suss behaviour? The birthday situation happened in February, and Tati didn’t say anything about it to James or anybody until after Coachella in May.
I think she was manipulated and a willing participant. I don't know if she would've started this without outside pressure, but she did choose to go forward with it and just trust that her sources were telling the truth. Exposes have to have lots to back them up, but she went forward and hoped that the evidence would follow. I suppose the evidence did follow, but not for a few years. James proved much of what she said all on his own, but that would've happened regardless of her making that video
This series is turning into what I thought the conspiracy palette makeup series would be! Thank you for taking so much time to thoroughly cover one of the largest RUclips events in the platforms history. We appreciate your findings, narration, and touch of humor with sensitivity when dealing with the heavy stuff.
I just gave birth and had my first night home from the hospital with baby. Baby kept me up all night because she was always hungry. This video came right on time. I watched it while I was up with her. It helped me get through some of that rough night. Thank you ❤
One thing I will say about Tati is she's the prettiest crier I've ever seen. I'm a snot dripping, voice shaking mess when I cry, Tati pauses talking & delicately dabs her eyes.
Anyone can be a pretty crier and an ugly crier. A pretty crier is just a person who is holding back their tears and fighting to stay calm. An ugly crier can be the same person on another day. When someone actually lets themselves cry, their eyes get red and swollen, their nose gets stuffy, their expression contorts, their voice shakes or gets hoarse, and it happens to everyone if they cry enough. However you cry, it's all normal and nothing to be ashamed about!! 🙂
*NOTE* I've gotten a few comments asking about how I know that Sam recorded James illegally. You're right that most US states are "One-Party Consent States". However, Sam was in his home (or a friend or family member's home) in Washington and James was in his home in California when the recording happened. According to Justia, BOTH Washington and California are All-Party Consent States. Here's the info for the nerds, like me, who want to know more. :) California "Under California law, it is a crime punishable by fine and/or imprisonment to record a confidential conversation without the consent of all parties, or without a notification of the recording to the parties via an audible beep at specific intervals. The California Supreme Court has defined a confidential conversation as one in which the parties have a reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or eavesdropping. In addition to criminal penalties, illegal recording can also give rise to civil damages." Washington "Washington law requires the consent of all parties to legally record in-person or telephone conversations. Consent is considered obtained via a reasonably clear announcement made to all parties during the recording. Violations are considered a gross misdemeanor and can also lead to civil damages." Since James was in California and the person whose rights were being violated, it's my understanding that California law would apply here. If found guilty of a misdemeanor, the penalty could be Up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $2,500. If found guilty of a felony, Sam could have gotten up to three years in prison and a fine of up to $2,500. Even worse for Sam, if the alleged victim suffered economic damages as a result of the wiretapping, he or she may sue for $5,000 or three times the amount of the economic damages, whichever is greater. So yeah Sam recorded James illegally and James had an absolute right to sue him. Source: www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/ and tinyurl.com/5n78cksp
Yes, you’re right. Since James was the one being recorded he is the “victim” and the California law would apply. Same with making harassing phone calls, identity theft, and a whole host of crimes. It’s where the victim lives that matters.
@@jenluv Thanks for that! I had never thought about illegal recordings until I watched the Monica Lewinsky one on Hulu called Impeachment. I was a teenager when it all happened and I didn’t understand everything that was happening and didn’t have the google machine to help me. But now watching that show and what Linda did was illegal because of the law and recordings etc and that’s why things didn’t go the way she wanted them too..now things are adding up in that scenario. But anyway, it helps now knowing what I learned from that show and applying it to this situation and it’s all adding up!
THANK YOU!I scrolled way too long for this comment. Drama and personalities aside, Jen's journalistic brilliance is what shines in these videos! Your unbiased, well researched and balanced views on things are what keeps me coming back! Thoroughly entertaining and informative, just absolutely professional! 👏👏👏
This is quite dark to think about but I also feel that since Shane (and possibly Jeffree) knew about the awful things Tati has experienced in her life, it was very easy to manipulate her emotionally. The allegations against James that, rightly so, labelled him a predator would have hit Tati hard. I know as a SA survivor that that would send me in a tail spin emotionally.
this whole situation is so ridiculous. it's a bunch of people who instead of having an adult conversation they made vaguely worded videos and posts on social media.
Well they also love their lives in social media. I think the line for them is kind of blurred. Social media is literally more important to them, than anything.
@@CHEFBO1ARDE3 She tried to talk to James before everything, but wasn't assertive enough so he never listened. Unless you walk in her shoes, please just recognize that you have zero idea how you'd be nor do you understand anything that happened behinds the scenes at any given time. Why be so judgmental? You bored?
@@CrystalFier I don’t think she would opt out of getting money just because she has money. That’s actually the opposite mindset to a lot of wealthy people.
She always disclosed when she bought things with her own money and when she got things in PR. She always tells the story of how she was broke when she started and that’s why she tried to find ways to get deals (like Madness Tuesdays). Anyway, the thing is that she chose her credibility was more important as a reviewer than getting affiliate codes.
I loved her doing her target deals when that stopped and the PR packages 📦 came in as soon as she said I’m not paid to promote this product ( she was paid to unbox it ) the more unboxing the more you make from different brands not just one off commission paid for one product review ( do the math on how many boxes Tati opened ) and background product placement. Tati went quiet when a new disclaimer rule came in especially in Europe if it’s a add or the RUclipsr is doing a paid promotion it has to be tagged or it’s not shown in Europe- TikTok owe millions ( 500million ) for failure to display adverts and failure to protect its community but it’s the add revenue that’s going to get TikTok closed down, I digress, Tati had her own game she played poker kept her cards close to her chest. Probably why she didn’t have other RUclipsrs on her channel she didn’t have to share her secrets and commission.
I will never forget watching the Bye Sister video. I had unfollowed Tati by that point because of her friendship with JS, but I was TUNED in for the video. I'm so glad I watched this because I never understood how people got that JC was a predator from Tati's video. I feel like the drama did not match what Tati's points were. It was always obvious to me that the vitamins were just the straw that broke the camels back for Tati. JC is a clout goblin (as is JS tbh) and she felt he owed her loyalty that he never intended to give to her bc he's more worried about the bag and having fun. Which isn't really that crazy for a 19 year old. It just sucks that because of JS and SD (I believe Shane was involved) that the plot got lost and Tati in the end paid the price for their meddling. We tried to warn Tati about JS but she didn't listen. It's a shame because Bye Sister kind of gave JC a free pass to continue his dangerous behaviors.
It was such a shame that the toxic friends got to her at that time. Her describing SD committing to her in "this life and the next" gives me the creeps every time. He's a skilled manipulator and people underestimate his involvement in everything that happened.
I feel so seen lol I feel like people who followed Tati during that time could clearly see her reasoning/how we got there, but people on the outside thought she was just a vindictive bitch. Not saying she’s perfect, I definitely think her downfall was befriending these truly vile people, but it’s just way more complicated than “well she’s 40 and should know better”
I love the direction your channel has gone! I never make it to live chat, but I always watch it. What's up in Makeup continues to be my favorite, but when you mentioned Swoop and her docs on RUclips and kind of emulating that kind of vibe I think I actually squealed out loud! I absolutely LOVE her, love her integrity and think you also have that in spades. Much love to you my friend and hope today is an amazing one! 💕
Thank you so much! Yes! I admire what Swoop is doing, DeAngelo Wallace, ContraPoints. So many people do this format so well. I hope that I can do the "deep dive" style justice the way they do!
The way Tati dealt with the whole situation still to this day blows my mind. As a 37-year-old why would you go about dealing with the situation like that with a 19-year-old instead of having direct contact with him and asking him the specific questions and sharing your feelings as the mentor that she calls herself? She goes and listens to the opinions and advice of no other than Jeffree star and Shane Dawson and lets them get in her ear?? It's crazy to me. James might be guilty of the things that he's done, but I just feel like Tati as the full grown adult in that situation could've handled this wayyyy better. And honestly, the people around her at that time who advised her not to get into direct contact with James Also blow my mind because even if he did lie about anything at least you could've sat there with one or two people who would've heard him lying directly to you if you did find out something later. It's just so weird to me how it was dealt as old as she was at that time.
She claims she did though. She says she tried having talks about her concerns many times and he wasn't listening, so she took it public and figured he would hear her, but she would get the hate because he was bigger than her on yt. Tati doesn't really understand her audience/the internet. She seems extremely sheltered sometimes. Idk if it's an act or what, but she doesn't seem to pick the best ppl on yt to associate with.
@@seroquelz and she should've done it AGAIN as his so called mentor and a grown ass adult in the situation. It's no surprise at all that a 19 year old that she knew from when he was 17 isn't gonna listen the first time or even the 10th time, but in this case where he's the one reaching out to you multiple times through multiple people trying to get the situation right she should've taken it. I don't think it takes not having much experience in the internet to know how to interact with those much younger than you. Shit, I would've personally went to his parents first with my concerns as someone who claims to care about him soooo much before the thought of making a tell all video about him without confirming any facts and listening to the words of 2 class A manipulators.
@@seroquelzDid she ever ask James about the "receipts" that made her believe in Jeffrey's accusations? She claimed in her later video that she was manipulated by JS but a good friend would first seek out the truth by talking to the accused. Clearly, she just chose to believe what she wanted.
My mind is blown that she thought she would get the most flack from Bye Sister when she uploaded a video about the most popular gay man on social media and insinuated that him flirting with a stranger was predatory. She seriously thought his career wouldn’t end from that? What world is she living in where homophobia is apparently nonexistent 🙄
@@incognitofelon Idk man, if someone came to me with receits about a friedn of mine abusing someone I wouldn't ask them about it. Like, you think james would say what? "Oh, yeas, I used my power as a top influencer to try to hook up with (allegedly) minors?
Hi Jen… I know you probably won’t see this but I do think you missed one very important issue regarding Tati and James, and that is that she connected with him when he was brand new. She was already established and he was not -she and her husband took him under their wing. Her husband helped him on the business end of things and Tati gave him exposure by Collab Ing with him on her channel and bringing him on the trip to her destination wedding. She also had him do her wedding make up, which was major exposure also. They had numerous conversations about business. I don’t think she was wrong to expect loyalty because she and her husband had done so much for James Charles… And I think that is one part of the story that you may not have had or may not have thought about.
@@fiftyfeistyandfabulous7402 I’ve always thought it was weird that she expected so much of his character as a teenager, even if she poured into him. She comes off as a major people pleaser and naive.
Yes, because as a mentor you're giving so much valuable insight, time, and emotional support. I hate people talking about how Tati is so much older and should know better, but James was old enough to know better. He was hungry for wealth and fame. I think Tati was very emotional and taken advantage of. She was very supportive of James, but James should understand that when someone helps you so much, you do need to show some loyalty because she shared makeup and business know-how. He could really hurt her. I think there must have been more lying from James and then all the bad behavior he was showing online affected Tati. Everyone shows emotions differently, so yes, I think some people are better at trying to control their tears and emotions.
@@Cocochantelle Yeah, God forbid we have expectations of others... Him being a teenager is exactly why she reached out to him to help him. The time their relationship began, it was not easy to navigate the YT landscape and the beauty industry was literally hounding influencers left and right to promote their stuff and take advantage of smaller creators. Can't say I agree with your take at all. You come off as a major judgmental and shortsighted person.
Nah he was a teenager yeah he was obnoxious but he was a kid she thought needed guidance and obviously he didn't. She got sour about gummies and canceled a kid. Don't expect that kind of respect from a kid you "expect to grow up eventually".
At 19 I was getting married. It’s not an excuse to be an ass because of age. It can be a factor. But not an excuse. He could do better and should have. He had the people around him feeding what to do. Example Tati and James. Stop excusing peoples bad behaviour on gender and age or life circumstances. Because then the fact is true, boys will be boys, and all the other sayings.
So James obviously lied about the sleep bears working out for him, cause he had one night before the video to try them out 🤣. I know he lies about a lot but it shows how easily he lies to his fans. Without blinking.
I feel that's par for the course for literally every sponsorship though, unless someone already used and loved a product long before the sponsorship happened
This series is definitely the best break-down of the bye sister scandal (and James's career) that I've come across and I've watched sooo many videos about it ever since it happened. I learned so many things that I didn't know before; making the timeline of it all so clear and discussing things linearly helped me understand the situation more and how chaotic it really was. You must've spent so much time on the research for this series but it's much appreciated!
The situation of course isn’t funny but “time and place” and “you did it at my birthday dinner” always kills me when people randomly reference it online.
Jeffree Star is a terrible person who thinks he rules the world. Tati was manipulated into doing this but she’s not flawless either. James is also a terrible person but nobody deserves to have bad thoughts. Everyone in dramageton is a bad person and could have been avoided. Thank you Jen for this deep dive! Edit: THANKS FOR THE LIKES EVERYONE!
Yes expecially since Jeffree has mentioned this voice memo all the time but never published it. He's never done anything about such terrible actions. If let's say I knew a close person hurted somebody I'd go to the police or warn others unless it was for my safety. But in this case there isn't no safety issue. They're both rich people who can afford to deal with it. It makes me question the validity of it all. It almost sounds like fake fish bait just hanging there for people to grasp and believe it's real food.
sooo true he said he had this whole file… like was he lying or did he realize the internet might not be fully behind him “exposing” JC after his redemption
@@bambamberg I don't think it's the latter. He either is lying about the whole thing. Or he's an enabler. I don't care if they've got redemption. If they killed someone they deserve punishment. Same for James. If he's hurt someone and is a know predator then show us, report it. This really shows where he got his morals. I mean he powered through the accusations of being a racists and acted like it never happened. Surely he can do the same with James. If he talks crap about him behind his back why be so cryptic? Just expose the damn guy to the authority. Unless it's all fabricated. I believe Nick from the Viewer's Voice had the same idea as we both have: that it's all a made up lie because if it was so damning then why didn't he expose him?
lmao a grown ass 40 year old woman played by jeffree - nah she was pressed about the vitamins. She used jaffar as her out. She's just as petty and childish.
Tati expected James, a then very young adult, to behave like her an older woman. For the Coachella thing, James did what anyone his age would do and just find any reason to continue to have fun. Your right when u said Tati was never really his friend but a mentor. To James Tati was a mentor only.
"Tati was saying James was taking advantage of straight boys and trying to convince them they were gay, not that he was a predator." Eh... The thing is, that is describing predatory behaviour so I can see why people very much conflated that with Jeffree and others outright calling him a predator and p*dof*le and assumed Tati meant the same thing. Especially as she namechecks Jeffree and "his receipts" several times in the video. This whole thing is such a murky mess. It's a fascinating and disheartening example of how social media and humans having emotions can spread misinformation and misunderstandings at the speed of light. 🙈🙈
While I agree there was a lot of misinfo being spread, I wouldn't lay that in Tati's lap. She was clear (tm atleast) on her issues and worries. She stated her concerns, and 'hinted' at the fact that she'd heard some worrying rumors. She never called him a p3do, but expressed concerns of things she had personally witnessed herself which isn't spreading misinfo. JS and those other rando celebs fanned the flames with misinfo and half truths, and then the flat out lies from those young guys looking for clout just made it worse. People online are rabid and lack media literacy.
But watching the first 2 parts we know they weren't wrong about him, dming under age b0ys. Man1pulating people's sexuality and his family. I belive the master mind behind all this was Jefrey, and he did it for his own ego, I don't see him having an issue with anything James did. But at the end of the day, James did do all those things.
@@flavialm1 Yes, I wasn't saying James didn't do those things. My point is, Tati's fear that there was a hit piece coming coupled with believing Jeffree when he said he had receipts (also the drama channel did the latter) meant that her video muddied the waters for true accusations since she was operating on incomplete or incorrect information. Similarly, those who lied about James m*lesting/ab*sing them and then recanted now means that James survives genuine accusations cos it very much appeared he'd been the victim of an unfair character accusation. There were other examples of that kind of incomplete or poor or wilfully deceptive information spreading that helped create the mess that exists today.
Agreed. Even though Tati didn’t use the word ‘predator’, what she described was clearly predatory behaviour. The subtext of ‘Bye Sister’ clearly painted James Charles as somebody who preyed on straight men.
@@anitaspinucci agreed but predatory behavior is immoral but isn't always illegal, pedo behavior is. She stated what she say, Star being the drama fien, that he is doused the story with gas and threw a match. I believe Tati did what she did cause she was concerned for some one she cared about, Star is just a crap human.
I find all of these people unstable and insufferable. But I watched this whole thing because your journalism, storytelling and analysis are exceptional! Great work!
My personal thoughts: It allegedly seems like JS and SD created all of this to eliminate competition and get more crowd for the documentary and the makeup collab. 1. They get Tati to trust them and got a lot of personal information on her, to then manipulate her to make a video against JC by saying "he wanted to share this info with drama channels".. and they both knew where her soft spot was. Why didn't JS publish a video about JC but let Tati get the love/hate about it? Why was he comfortable talking bad about JC with anyone and even sharing a voice memo of a allegedly victim just to let people hate him and didn't contact anyone of JC's family or the police? 2. JS created lot of excuses to never met JC after the dinner party just to say "tati is right 100%,, i've never saw him again after the birthday dinner and my boyfriend won't let him in our house".. but never said he exchange messages with JC and.. why would u still hang out and collab with someone that u don't feel comfortable in your house? I imagine this is going on way before the Bye Sister video and the gummy bears, otherwise the timing is.. suspicious 3. JS and SD were ready to let out new info against JC to stand by Tati.. but when the people where on JC side suddenly they didn't want to make the video anymore and made Tati the bad guy. First they convince her to publish a video (even tho it could have led to JC not being with us anymore), they stood always by her side.. but then she is a liar? She's fake crying? Lots of things aren't adding up but one seems clear: It looks like JS never really cared about JC 🤔
i have a feeling that JS and Tati backtrack all their words and Tati backtracked her videos is because James had lawyers telling them to STFU. JS was about to post his own video and JC was like, oh hell naw. Tati has already exposed me I don’t need anyone else doing it. So he lawyered up and that’s why Tati deleted her videos. Because she was probably forced to by his lawyers, not because RUclips told her to. I think RUclips was living for this drama. 😂
I think all of this was encouraged, and manipulated by JD & SD. I hope Jen does a deep dive on them too, and all of this. I know she touches on them but I'm sure there is a ton more to discuss.
I 100% agree. JS and SD were definitely trying to eliminate their competition so he can be number one. As soon as Jeffree entered the beauty community, the biggest dramas revolved around him and it never even backfired for him. To this day he’s still very popular
The fact that someone like James has faced no consequences from social media platforms and is freely allowed to influence teens is disturbing and disgraceful
I remembered this when it was happening in real time. James was (and is) still entitled. I just restarted watching Tati, because I do like her. Love this series, Jen.
@@barbbandurski3679you don't have to do anything you don't want to. Atleast she's grinding so that she can make her subscribers happy and relaunch her makeup line that they desperately want and trying to do it all on her own this time without investors. She's trying to stay out of the drama in more ways then one. Can't hate on her for that.
Sorry Tati isn't innocent, she wasn't manipulated into hating James, she cited first hand experiences in Bye Sister. No where did she say that she heard this from Jeffree or Shane. Doesn't mean they didn't badmouth him, but she is a grown woman who spoke for herself.
The way people act about how Tati came forward is the reason why when I am hurt and backstabbed I am afraid to stand up for myself. Everyone just acts like you don’t deserve to stand up. They will point fingers at you and say “well you’re older you should know better” or “why are you upset?? They’re so young” “how old are you?? Why can’t you be the bigger person and just move on??” and imply other ageist things. Thanks for age shaming. Thanks for putting a person down when she rightfully stood up. Thanks for being such a toxic society. Not claiming *this* community is toxic, but please take a look around.
Amen to that. Age is literally just a number. It doesn't reflect your experience in life. We're talking about a bully with a busy social life against an "island" who seems to have had less experience dealing with people. Comments like that are just more bullying.
People were not upset about her age, they were upset that she made ruthless and damaging accusations about her "friend' over her own pettiness and financial gain. You clearly have no idea what ageism is so stop throwing the word around where it does not belong.
And...Tati uploaded 5 days a week for many years!! Plus, she did not do sponsorships! So, she really grew her audience & channel based on appearing to be a very genuine person who was honest about her reviews...And clearly, she did get tons of PR but since she didn't do sponsorships like pretty much every other RUclipsr in the beauty space she wasn't beholden to any brand!! Edited to add - Jen, I think you are spot on with your assessment of the relationship between Tati & James - I totally agree! Therefore, in hindsight (bcse at the time I did not fault Tati for making her video) I believe that Tati's bye sister video was really a poor choice on Tati's part - understandable in the moment due to feeling so hurt & betrayed - but had cooler heads prevailed - how her story unfolded after that video would have been very different!!
Honestly Tati was the biggest loser in the Bye Sister situation. As a 37 year old causing this drama over vitamins with a 19 year old is WILD. And then to blame Jeffree and Shane, when again, she was 37 and should've known better than to trust two racists who were 9 times out of 10 always involved in social media drama in some way. They were known to not be trustworthy way before then! James even showed that he made an effort to reach out to Tati before she posted bye sister but instead of dealing with this maturely one on one with James, she chose to listen to the two worst people on the Internet. I've never been a James fan but I agreed with Gabriel's opinion of the situation. Jeffree is the actual danger to society here. Also, I feel like you're splitting hairs she definitely insinuated that he was engaging in predatory behavior. She may not have said it explicitly, but she opened the pandoras box.
I unsubscribed from Tati right before Dramageddon 2 because of how silly and immature she’d become on her channel. I honestly believe if she’d taken a beat and remembered that she was grown, Tati could have handled this situation appropriately.
thank you!! the fact that James did genuinely reach out to her and fix whatever she felt upset about and she chose to create a drama-storm and capitalize off of it. how sad to railroad a 19 year old when she could have just walked away. icing him out and THEN uploading bye sister was wild. you wanted to talk but just not to him? lol yikes. this comment is exactly how i felt too lol
As someone who was onto all of this things at the time, can confirm: JS video was a very 'wtf' moment, since he showed nothing, and nothing he said would happen did happen. On my view, Tati was far too deep into her emotions and was easily misguided, since also she was the dark horse in the race, as you mentioned in the beggining of the video: She was, and still is, a nice aunty that swatches makeup and brand did noticed her, but no one wants to take an aunt to a beach party full of teenagers, right? Her praise was somewhere else, and it was fine! But as she got in the turmoil that was full of super-egos, she reacted by fear. Jen, you have a great widespread view of this events, a view that I did had at the time when it happened, but had no one to confide on (I'm no american, no one on my social circle followed these people or events). I also sympatized with Tati because of that, since when I was yound I was also thrown in a similar situation with frinds (but not at the same level, omg), with each and every part saying a different story...
My point was always - she felt lonely all this time, found someone who accepted her and she got blindsided. But she was also kinda right in her Bye sister video… if only it wasn’t made that quickly and she gave herself time to think about everything, things would turn out a lot different.
I was following Tati over two years when that happened, and I was Team Tati since the beginning because I did not like James. But I do think that the way she did it wasn't correct, but I always knew she was right. I'm glad time showed the truth.
I’m only 40 minutes in but I had to stop & give credit where it’s due. Jen, your hard work & dedication to this series is unmatched! WOW! I think you’ve found your niche with the Friday deep dives. I love your makeup content & I tune in every Sunday & Monday religiously for WUIM but you’ve unlocked a gift within yourself here. Your natural talent & growth as a creator is on full display here. Beyond proud of you! I hope this series garners the views & attention that it deserves.❤ Incredible work!🏆🏆🏆
Jeffree Star saying "all I know is honesty" makes me absolutely scream. I still can't believe the nerve he had acting like he's better than James. They're all horrible people. The only one I think has any redeeming qualities at all is Tati, because she just seemed so lost in this whole thing with how manipulative everyone around her at the time was. She's not innocent, but she was definitely a pawn in a bigger game. I do think Jeffree had way too much to do with this whole situation, he truly is like a cancer, he ruins everyone around him. And that is not me defending James Charles. He's one of the worst of all and still hasn't truly been held accountable to any justifiable degree for the disgusting things he's done.
Shane Dawson is 1000x worse than Jeffree Star imo, and his involvement in all of this was well hidden and understated. Shane knows exactly how to get people to do his dirty work. He plants seeds in their minds and uses his faux empathy to lure them into a false sense of security. He also loves to stir up shit for content, and because he's bored. He's very willing to spin a tale about anyone, any time, because he's literally just bored. When I watched him around the time all of this was happening, there were small things he'd say, passing it off as jokes, but it was obvious to me how he really viewed others. Plus the way he treated sweet old Garret.. Yeah, he's the poison in the well. I really don't get that vibe from Jeffree. I do think he's done plenty of insensitive things, especially when he's angry. But I also think Jeffree is a product of his extremely harsh, abusive environment growing up and he's way more likely to be honest than Shane. Shane doesn't have that same background to excuse his bizarre, duplicitous and honestly nasty behavior. Like who would joke about jerking off onto a cat or call a baby sexy MULTIPLE TIMES, while also sounding unironic? Nah.. he hinds behind a very well crafted mask of feigned innocence.
Hey Jen! I hope you see this message: I've been a subscriber for nine years now, and I still love your content just as much as I did when I first joined. I was only 19 at the time, and naively thought that the influencers with the most subscribers were the real deal… but wow, was I wrong. It wasn't until Dramageddon 2 that I realized how often the big influencers seem to copy or steal ideas from smaller creators. But you've been solid from day one-I remember when you had just 15k subscribers! There's something so genuine and real about you that I have no doubt you're exactly the same in real life as you are in your videos (which isn't something I can say about most other influencers). Over the years, I've stopped watching almost all the influencers I used to follow, but I'm still obsessed with your channel. And now that I'm more into deep-dive content, I'm absolutely LOOOOOVING your "Behind The Controversy" series. I can't wait to see what you have in store for us next (also, I always thought you have an amazing voice for podcasts). Hope you have an amazing day-you’re awesome! ❤
2.5 hours and you still felt like you needed to do a 4th part. I appreciate your commitment to getting things accurate and lining up all of the facts! You're wonderful, Jen!
Wow what an awesome piece you have earned my subscription and I'm not even into beauty/makeup sphere. It's a real clear concise expose easy to follow for someone unfamiliar with any of this drama. Thank you this obviously took an enormous amount of time and this only partial in a larger story. So fascinating what I do t understand is why these creators don't first try to resolve things privately I mean I know JC made many attempts to resolve with Tati. I feel like no matter how long it takes for the conversation to get started that they continue it in person privately. I'm obviously waaay outside the loop. What a crazy world these people live in!You should be proud this is an excellent informative video. Kudos! Thanks! edit - and you are very funny. Ever consider doing stand-up you have great delivery lol
The other thing I took from this is this Jeff Starr is a terrible, horrible, no good person!! My goodness I don't even think he gets involved in this drama out of fear that JC or other beauty creators get more popular or have more followers but just because he can. Like he gets his cheap thrills trying to bring people down. Ok I'm done now.
rewatching all of this go down now that im older has me thinking one thing: holy shit the internet IS NOT YOUR DIARY. i think 90% of this became as bad as it did because everyone involved was just blasting every single thought onto the internet. i just wanna shake everyone and scream THE INTERNET IS NOT YOUR DIARY!! THE INTERNET IS NOT YOUR THERAPIST!!!
I’m very anti James Charles and was for Tati in the situation, but honestly in hindsight like it never was that deep. Makeup brands are competitors. I understand the hair vitamin game is much smaller, but it was 1 post, no money was exchanged. It was a legal matter after things were signed, it centered the sleep gummies, it was a story that would disappear in 24 hours, like yes I could understand feeling a little hurt by it but CRYING ON THE STORY?now if it was a longtime partnership deal and this was something premeditated I’d maybe be a little upset but I wouldn’t feel the need to put up and expose
Ok I thought I was the only one who felt this way lol, totally agree. While I definitely agree with Tati that James should have just left, I can imagine that he was trying to find any way out of a stressful situation without leaving Coachella-so it's understandable that he wasn't thinking about her vitamins at all when he agreed to do the sponsorship in exchange for artist passes. If I was in Tati's position, I might be hurt, but people make mistakes and James wasn't necessarily trying to be hurtful, so I probably wouldn't end the friendship or put him on blast only because of of this. Also obviously James even agreeing to do this sponsorship for a brand he's never used before is shady AF, but idk, it's not surprising to me at all that he did? Like that's just how most big influencers *are*, imo
@@laur83^*THIS*!!! It drives me crazy that everyone boils Tati's reaction down to "it's just gummy vitamins". No, gummy vitamins were the straw that broke the camel's back. They were the tipping point. I think if people are honest with themselves and they look at the times when they decided to withdraw from a toxic relationship, the tipping point is always something relatively small in the grand scheme of things. It's the final betrayal, and it comes when you are already on the brink. Plus, when you consider the other forces behind the scene manipulating her and whispering in her ear, it all makes perfect sense.
@@seroquelz I agree, and I understand what she did what she did, but still I feel like she could have handled the situation privately at first, or at least taken a few days to think it over so she would be able to explain the full context when she went public with it.
@41:50 I honestly am with James on this one. I really don’t like him for many reasons but it’s just ridiculous to expect your friends to pledge brand loyalty to you. I lost respect for Tati for starting this whole thing over her vitamins. When I first watched the bye sister vid I thought the falling out had to do with some serious allegations Tati knew, not because she was butthurt over this hs level bs. the truth is, as self-absorbed as James is, there is something really off about a 30 something woman who makes using her dumb vitamins as a requirement for being her friend.
im new here and i was absolutely shocked when u said "in my 46 years of life", i fully thought you were early 30s max, you look really good, love the video
nu uh she's really 46 no way. I thought she was early 30s tops I wish I knew her skincare routine. For some reason I think that just made me like her more and I already really love her show and how she spills the tea with facts and receipts.
1:24:07 She is a audible/verbal processor, so the more she speaks, the more her brain connects the dots. It's incredible normal in neurodivergent people, since we tend to have processing issues. This is why a lot of us may seem stupid in new encounters, but deep inside, we tend to be a lot smarter than others, since our cognitive empathy and empathy in general, is very high.
I feel like Jeffree manipulated everyone, us included, because he wanted to bring everyone down a few notches. Jeffree gives the vibe of someone that wants to be top dog and I think he saw James and Tati as serious competition. So he manipulated things so that James and Tati would make bad PR moves and he could swoop in like everyone's problematic fave.
Yeah I think the fact that Tati WAS so isolated and behaved like a person while still being an influencer worked against her as far as forming friendships in the influencer community. She expected these people and this kid to also be well adjusted and ~human when that's just not the case for many of these beauty influencers of the time tbh. Tati wasn't an AD machine or shill at the time like most of her counterparts and her reviews were always thorough and heartfelt and came from a place of experience. The kind of popularity that comes from being a shill changes a person and their content and you can see it even in influencers today. Tati expected James and Co. to care about what she would think (whether that was as a friend, mentor, or peer) when those kinds of creators just Do Not care about anything other than their views and what that can get them. James and Jeremiah Starfish are especially bad examples of the community, first of all for the obvious reasons of predation and racism, but also because they are the pinnacle of mean girl behavior. As soon as you get near them at the top to either step on their turf or say/do anything to threaten the idealized vision of their world they'll turn on you in an instant and bring their followers with them. People poke at Tati for being overly emotional and jumping the gun on making a video about James but in all reality she probably had been dealing with microagressions/issues for a WHILE before this final straw, and we know if she had said or done even one thing Jeff would've gone ballistic waaay sooner.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Not to mention JS and SD were behind the scenes hyping her to make the video. She was all in her feelings and allegedly they were bts stoking the flames and encouraging her to speak out. People also forget that she's a SA survivor and hearing that voicenote probably sent her spiraling. I think a lot of people need to look inward and deal with their misoginy and ageism before they trash an "old woman" for being hurt by someone she thought cared about her feelings and her business. I see people in the comments here hinting that Tati is some kind of pred herself smdh.
If Tati had really cared she would have picked up the phone and talked to James rather than taking him down publicly. That woman is so self-righteous and dishonest, she probably even believes her own lies.
I think what so many, and especially Tati, missed at the time, was it’s not about “trying to turn straight men gay”. It’s *harrassment* regardless of their sexuality. The former has a homophobic air about it.
It's only harassment if someone keeps bothering despite being turned down. Tati and a lot of people are clearly homophobic when they say DMing straight men is predatory. No one would ever think that a woman DMing a gay guy is predatory.
@@incognitofelonsimply DMing, no. Harassing people, yes, which he did do. What Tati said was homophobic. She was right, but for the wrong reasons. What she saw was harassment, but she interpreted it in all the wrong ways. (And notice, I did say it “has a homophobic air about it”, but I wish I had been direct now). Edit, I also see you’re blindly defending him everywhere, so I’m not going to bother.
I think it’s also worth noting that in the case of the birthday dinner; flirting with and asking coworkers for information about another staff member is harassment. They’re at work, they can’t tell you to buzz off or or stop because they might get in trouble/lose their job. There’s a power dynamic in play and that seems to me what James likes.
To me, I think James supporting a rival product was Tati’s tipping point. Plenty happened prior to this and I think the vitamin was the final straw. James lied about his use of the sleeping vitamin as he could have only tried for one night. I think he is definitely a narcissist and rather creepy in his interaction with straight males. I am glad Tati no longer has him in her life and that she is back being her beautiful and authentic self. Well done Jen, you have done an amazing job with this series.
No one was innocent in Dramageddon 2.0 ! I remember watching this go down and thinking the mastermind behind all of this was Jeffree Star. However, from the very beginning when ppl felt so bad for Tati, I didn’t! A grown woman going on her huge platform crying about vitamins, but hiding under the guise of how much she truly cares for James, but in reality this about greed and a huge ego. No one will ever convince me til this day that Tati did not know exactly what she was doing, I’ve always agreed that Jeffree may have manipulated her, but in reality that was Tati’s way of taking zero accountability, and further victimizing herself. One thing for certain is that we all know James Charles is a predator. He has been caught multiple times speaking to minors and his behavior continues to be enabled til this day.
Yeah I followed Ashlye at the time, and her video saying she was on the payroll really disappointed me, but also it was pretty obvious that she was in regular communication with him. I'm glad she stepped back
1:24:31 yup. Therapists will use active listening in coordination with validating reflection statements. This helps people hear themselves out, process the problematic issue, and find their way to the core issue(s). Then working to make a values consistent and mindful decision of what the person then wants to do about it. Good intuition Jen! 👋🏻 from a fellow ND peep.
I am very anti James Charles but there’s also something really icky to me about Tati and her husband icing out a teenager who is repeatedly trying to apologize and looked to them like parents instead of directly stating anything about ending that relationship.
@@lidaloo263 I fully agree. I think Tati should have taken his calls. JC's confusion and hurt at being dropped from their life seemed genuine. She should have handled it privately and could have remained a voice of reason in his ear.
@@raetona Exactly, she listened to gossip and ignored both private apologies and a very public one that he made without request. He was trying every way to rectify the situation but she immediately cancelled someone she claimed to be a parent figure for. At least Jeffree Star was responsive. For claiming to be a mother figure, Tati acted far more immature than James Charles and seems to have used her age gap as an excuse to be holier than thou when she was just as childish. She didn’t have the decency to at least say please give me some time and space.
@@laurazepam8382 yes, but that actually makes it worse. They completely shut him out, cut off their access to know what he was up to, and didn't do a single thing that actually could protect the public. "I saw enough to be afraid" okay, well, encourage medical help? Gather actual evidence to build a case? Abandoning a mentally ill teen escalates their behaviors.
@@laurazepam8382 I mentioned I’m anti James Charles, but what broke their relationship was Coachella and hair vitamins. How long would she have been in his corner if he didn’t perceivably slight her business? There weren’t any minors making allegations at that point and in her video she was bothered by his approach to straight men as if tacking on every bad detail she can recall. Didn’t say she should maintain the relationship, it’s not an appropriate one anyway to be mother/mentor/colleague, but the way she went about stonewalling rubbed me the wrong way.
I know this is serious but “AND YA DID IT AT MY BIRTHDAY DINNER” gives the same exact vibes as *”HARRY DID YA PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GOBLET OF FIYAH?!” Dumbledore asked calmly* like they exist in the same space in my head
I'd like to add one thought to all the wonderful comments so far before finishing this part: it still doesn't sit right with me that this was called "Dramageddon" (even though I totally get why it was coined that way) - because even though the reasons WHY these people went off against each other was Drama, but the topic discussed most definitely was and is NOT.
I watched the whole drama in real time when it happened. Revisiting it with your telling of the story, Jen, I'm more and more convinced that: While there may have been "business reasons" for JC and SD to get competitors out of the way, there also may have been the sheer enjoyment of power, manipulation, chaos and destruction. In the words of Batman's butler Alfred: "Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." That may be too overly dramatic a view for some of you. But to those of us who've been targeted by abusers, narcissists and sociopaths, it often rings awfully true.
I agree. Looking back it was so calculated. And when tati’s video explaining how she was manipulated dropped, the reaction from Shane was the nail in the coffin
Imma be real being that famous that young would’ve also made me do stupid things but a 37 year old letting a 19 your old call her mom and then being so dramatic over something so small is crazy
I’m at 1:47:40 im not at all a James C supporter, I do not agree with most of his behavior. HOWEVER, seen everything told in the timeline it happened we can all agree that JEFFREE STAR was the MAIN reason everything unfolded the way it did, he manipulated everyone behind the scenes to say things… Years later and now being a grown adult myself I can say Jefree constantly harassing James and manipulating people to do things and say things could’ve had catastrophic consequences with James. Jefree/Tati were grown adults James was still a teenager !!!!
20:15 the reason was that she saw snotty and rude people at these trips. She has a video sharing this. She went to one event like that, and she didn't like it bcz of that exactly. Tati is a classy gal and doesn't mix with just anyone. Of course she is also innocent where she didn't have much discernment and that is how she let herself fail when friending with Jeffrey and Charles. But you live and you learn.
I liked Tati and because I'm about the same age I could never understand why she became friends with these group of awful individuals, it was as clear as day at the time that they were all disgusting. She was old enough to have better judgement. She totally lost me there.
Watching this while I eat a nice big breakfast. Its so interesting to see you summarize this as someone who was "there". I was mostly a fan of Tati, never of James. I was subscribed to Jeffreee. And the drama channels, I ate all this drama up for breakfast, llunch and dinner. It was a fascinating dance battle between a bunch of successful influencers with narcisssitic traits. I still like Tati, I think she is a sensitive person like myself, I understand her, it wasnt about the vitamins, its about the principle of it. You help someone be successful with genuine care and love, only for them to show no loyalty whatsoever. Yes she should have taken his age into account, a 19 year old boy can be insufferable with the cockiness. However, he was old enough to be doing business so he knew what it was. I'd love to see you breakdown the whole Shane, Jeffree, Trisha drama.
As a lesbian the whole trying to turn straight men gay is so fcked up and I hate how society treats it like a joke. My bff is straight but so many of our classmates and “friends” don’t believe that because he’s a dancer and kind of feminine. He keeps telling them to stop but they just treat it as a joke. We get upset when a straight man says he’ll turn a lesbian straight so why don’t we get upset when gay men say that?
I'm definitely not a james charles fan and have never been his target demographic. However, as a woman in her 30s, it makes me very uncomfortable that Tati would ever expect anything from James--whether that be promotion of a brand or even friendship. He was a teenager, talk about predatory behavior. IMO he just seems like a reactionary teenager that would have benefitted from being able to live like a normal kid
I think when someone hypes you up and you help them out and then they act a fool it’s hurtful. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable because she’s not a gross person plain and simple.
Eh, I'm a woman in her 30s and I don't know about this. I get not expecting anything from a teenager, but at the same time they were both moving in the same professional and personal circles and those sorts of deals and transactions and friendships were common. And he had, for all intents and purposes, had those types of relationships with lots of other people who were significantly older than him. It's interesting how Tati gets all sorts of criticism for being an adult woman having this relationship with a teenager, but what about literally every other drama influencer in James' circle? They were all older than him, but his interactions with them aren't as scrutinized. And, let's be real, he was a teenager but also a legal adult. He was making business deals with major brands, he was forming deep connections with other major influencers, he was making requests of other major influencers (like his deal with Nikita), but Tati is somehow out of line for seeing all of that and expecting the same? Maybe it was unrealistic in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think it's that ridiculous to see a legal adult who was making deals with huge brands like Morphe and had friendships with adults in their 20s and 30s and not knowing from the outside that he was actually extremely immature and unprofessional.
This just feels ageist tbh lol her and her husband were mentoring him and were actually responsible for a lot of his success with brands like Morphe. They were looking over contracts and things for JC. She wasn't partying with him. She expected loyalty because her and JW had made JC millions of dollars by directing him on how to handle brand deals and in the text msgs that were shown he made a promise to only promote Halo. She shoulda got it in writing tbh, because that's a brand collab, but she thought JC was like family (mistake). She shouldn't have expected much from him though, he was a kid and kids do thoughtless crap all the time.
@@seroquelzso they were grooming him? Yeah it’s fucking weird. She knew he was younger and freshers with a potential that she could capitalize on and get her ROI. She’s worse than James because she weaponized her tears and she also showed her ass by flip flopping as ppl started to see that she clung to something (confirmation bias) just to get her revenge on her lost investment.
I will never forget the day bye sister was uploaded, I was in high school at the time and every single person had a think piece about it. Never in my life have I seen such a crossover from internet to in person spaces
My problem with Bye Sister is, JC prey over minors and "straight boys" long before this, but it was all fine for Tati until the vitamin incident. Like, why did you wait Tati?
What type of people go online and attack their "real world" friends to millions of literal strangers, but refuse to actually speak to their "friends"? I have no respect for any of them. They are all narcissists who show zero respect for other people.
I haven't been interested in social media very much. I'm an older woman and I guess I've seen more of the darker side it can cause in people when their entire day is flooded with every type of "social media star" coming into their world. Their interests are picked up as soon as they click on something, and they are suddenly bombarded with that type of content. I've been watching your research on James Charles. I think he's left quite a lot of damage behind him and doesn't really care. In my opinion, he's a narcissist with some other very obvious issues and needs serious help. I hope what you're doing here can give some of his victims a sense of hope that there are people who see them and wish them well. Thank you for the work you put into this. You've done an incredible job.
I think for younger people, Bye Sister was when we took a moment and realized how parasocial our relationships with beauty gurus were. Because we had no way of verifying any of the drama and I remember suddenly realizing I had no idea how any of these people could be using their fame for manipulation. I haven’t been “into” any influencer content since, it’s lost its sparkle for me!
When she did the bye sister video it seems maybe Tati was still coming at it from a place of concern and hurt, feeling like she couldn’t trust him because of things done or said, things that none of us know were said. I think we all have our “here is my line in the sand” area. But we don’t always know when there will be that one action, or words used that will be the straw that breaks the relationship. I know that’s a lot of metaphors. I just remember it happening with a former friend of mine. I was shocked at what that straw was and when it happened and why it happened and I never saw it coming. But when certain things happen, you mourn it. You mourn what was, what could have been, and you mourn the loss of that person from your life. Maybe that is where some of Tatis initial video came from.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
*UPDATE* Tati has uploaded an interview with OG beauty guru, Michelle Phan, where she talks about the events that we talked about in this video. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/EBVCiT7J0dU/видео.htmlsi=hJVAERhH5uKaADcj
@@jenluv what did you think of the interview? For me it kind of felt like Tati was trying to minimise her involvement with Jeffrey and James, like these relationships happened to her and she didn’t have agency
I'm realizing that the difference between Tati and Gabriel Zamora's reactions to the gummy vitamins situation is probably rooted in a difference in how they view sponsorships.
It's pretty obvious that most influencers (including James, Gabriel, and Nikita) view sponsorships as business transactions, as just how they get paid. They see it as just reading a script and cashing a check. They don't have a connection in any way to the product, they just say the words. So, of course Nikita wouldn't care if Gabriel promoted a competitor, because it doesn't mean anything.
Whereas it's clear that Tati sees sponsorships as an honest review of a product. That you only take and do sponsorships for brands you love and use and trust. She saw them as meaningful, so her giving James promo code was her way of supporting someone she cared about. She views James promoting her product as endorsing their relationship, so his promoting a different brand was a betrayal.
You can argue which perspective is correct, but in retrospect this is really just people talking past each other.
I think you’re absolute right.
Oh definitely. I think Tati tries her best to be a good and honest person (my personal opinion is she’s not great still) but fails in several ways because she’s blinkered by her, well, privilege.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
True but I still think in that situation with James it was a little ridiculous to get that mad at a 19 year old when u are 37 you know? Also vitamins that grow your hair don’t actually work so it was all bull
I was a regular viewer of tati's before bye sister and I remember her being VERY selective of her sponsorships. They were rare but it was a product/brand that she loved for months or years. So I think your point makes total sense that she views sponsorships as honest and absolute love reviews
I think what so many missed at the time, was it’s not about “trying to turn straight men gay”. It’s *harrassment* regardless of their sexuality.
It’s creepy but he enjoys making straight men uncomfortable you can see it especially around his brother it’s like a twisted power trip
I see and mostly agree with your point but i do want to note that there is a fetishization of straight men in the gay community, in the same way that straight men fetishize lesbians. It's not everyone, but it's there for sure
YES!!!! But the behavior of Jeffree (mainly) took the focus away from that. That’s the worst part.
Yup, he's a predator.
@@jenniferromano5152it was lost before that tbh, but yes, he fuelled the fire. I actually think Jeffree had something, more than one thing probably, on James, but he’s so useless at being a communicator in any useful way he totally screwed it up. After the tide turned, Jeffree went with it because he’s too worried about losing his income (and my suspicions are, he’s done the same to many people himself anyway).
Being online when Bye Sister dropped actually changed my life I cannot believe how it’s completely left the beauty community and changed the social media landscape. The fallout is incredible we’re still watching it happen.
It's crazy how this series has been 4.5 hours, and it's not even done yet😂 I cant even begin to imagine how much time this has taken you, Jen. Thank you
And to think it could could be triple or more than what it will end up being.
When someone is constantly saying that they are an empath, they're not an empath
Sometimes. Other times they are just open about it. But not like how Shane says it smh
lmao i never believe anyone who tells me they’re an empath. if you’re a real empath you’ll show it through your actions not just your words
This is true. Also, it seems unwise to state that you're an empath unless you want every narcissist in a 30 mile radius to zero in on you lol
It's like bragging about being vegan, and making sure to bring it up in every conversation.
Someone telling you they're an empath and they feel your pain when you're breaking down to them is not an empath they're a narcissist and they're making your pain about them
I never understood why everyone seemed so convinced by James' "No more lies" because when he showed the texts he had exchanged with some of those young men illustrating his "innocence" ---those texts read to me as so awful. The way he talked to the other person was so manipulative, and applying pressure on the other person to make them feel guilty as though they had done something wrong by figuring out they were not interested. It was disgusting and gross. It read to me exactly how my abuser communicated, with overwhelming long texts sent rapid fire pressuring me to see my own actions and my own feelings as the problem and trying to turn my own words against me. I have never understood why I never really saw anyone raise that issue. Honestly "No more lies" convinced me that James was manipulative, self-interested/narcissistic, and abusive far more than anything Tati or Jstar put out. James' texts showed who he is. He was not interested in the wellbeing of the young men he was interacting with, he was not interested in helping them explore their sexuality, he was pressuring them to give him what he wanted whether that was affection or admission that they were horrible people who deceived him--because he can't accept rejection.
You're right, I never see people talk about that online much. I never understood why after NML people were suddenly like "He's innocent of EVERYTHING!" The only thing he showed was how inappropriate he was with those boys (which was Tati's whole point, mind you) and that JS was two faced (no one is surprised by this). Those texts look like someone who is dubious about concent and definitely isn't opposed to coercing someone into consenting.
Right?? I knew that was going to happen the moment that video dropped because he had too many followers for them not to forgive him and it pissed me off so much. I never even watched that video because I knew he was still trash and he was still manipulative, but now that narrative was going to be buried and I didn't want to watch that happen.
@@ml609 I am kind of a boomer when it comes to the beauty community. I wear some eyeliner and mascara MAYBE 10 times a year. I have never been a consumer of any of the people involved in all this drama's content. That being said, I saw James Charles video, without all of the context, when all of it was going down, and was hella triggered reading the messages. Even though I dont have an opinion on Jstar, James saying, "I knew the twins weren't involved because they were some of the first people to make sure I was okay." Is not all that convincing to me. I could be wrong about this, and will definitely educate myself, but a*users get protected by their victims all the time. Especially when somebody brings the situation up before they are ready to deal with it.
Exactly.
EXACTLY 💯
Honestly, Tati should have trademarked “OMG. Time and place” & “…and you did it at my birthday dinner.”
I still laugh anytime I hear those phrases. 😂😂😂
aydiambd is such an iconic pop-internet culture moment 😭
i feel bad for her because that sounds like a Nightmare Scenario but “sucking [redacted] and [redacted]” makes me giggle
To be fair, she likely would have spent more on attorneys than she made in merch. It’s not like other people would actually pay to license those phrases. I am sure we’ll see that Jools gal kind of have to run demure & mindful into the ground, in order to really make it financially worthwhile. Trademarking is meant to be an investment, once you protect yourself, you may be boxed in to a very specific niche if you want to get your moneys worth. My dad spent his life trying to copyright or trademark everything he did, even tho as a visual artist, his signed paintings automatically got copyright protection. He wasted so much money protecting himself, not realizing you have to be able to push product if you don’t already have loads of extra money. The government, quite frankly, doesn’t care about low level IP theft. The protections are largely designed to protect commerce & trade in the big picture, esp goods & services that we actually need. It is very unfair, but social media is a creative world that has no one limiting how many people get to participate, it’s a morass of mostly tiny economies that won’t impact the GDP or affect our daily lives. It’s a bit much for internet creators to think that IP enforcement should center on their funny sayings.
you did it at my birthday dinner will be the phrase of the century.
It always cracks me up
Shane Dawson calling himself an "empath" while anyone he's putting others against a "psychopath" or "narcissist" is one of the biggest ironies of the world.
This! A true empath (besides probably not telling people they’re an empath) wouldn’t have flippantly thrown away a concern about someone else hurting themselves, even if that person is a narcissist.
I nvr followed him cos he gives me the "oh, I wanna act all nice and innocent", but is actually a crappy person irl.. I never liked him.. he always gives me bad vibes...
People who call themselves empaths are never empaths. Calling yourself an empath is centering someone else’s pain on yourself, which isn’t empathic. People who really are don’t need to say it. Empathic people show it.
@@NoelleTakestheSky yes, thank you!
TOTALLY! The entire time he was the Narcissist. Oh well, he fooled us for a while. I haven’t watched him in 5 years and don’t miss his fake
personality a bit.
I've been faithfully watching the series, knowing I haven't seen a James Charles video ever in my life.
I love that for you, Felicia. 🤗
@@feliciafelicia6965 I’m glad I’m not the only one lol.
Hahaha, same here!
Same! I never watched Tati, JC, or JS-but I’m here because I just keep hearing everyone reference dramageddon and I still didn’t know what it was about. It honestly sounds like some petty high school drama at its core.
Same lol
I'm Tati's age and I cant imagine expecting loyalty and friendship from a 19 year old kid. She seemed really immature and naive to expect anything from a teenager. Just my opinion.
@aliciaohara8794 agreed, I'm 36 and work with a 20 year old. I wouldn't expect the same level of maturity in her. She's barely out her teens, she's going to be immature and make mistakes. I find it bizarre Tati came online to call out a teenager the way she did.
Yes, all of it is Tati’s fault. She is a grown ass woman and then tries to back pedal with the follow-up video and blame everyone else. Changed my opinion of her for sure.
Plus, I’m sorry, I wish people would stop coming online and crying all the damn time. Just stop!
Completely agree. I was 34 at the time turning 39 and cannot comprehend this.
Totally agree. This seems so silly now
Nothing good ever starts with “Jeffree Star got on Snapchat….”
TRUTH!
😂
@@Whiskin87 😂😂😂
💯 FACTS! Jeffree Star is not a nice person at all! That is just my opinion after watching and reading the things that he says and does! He can never just shut up!
Nothing good ever starts with Jeffree Starr. He's been a menace since the early MySpace days.
As someone in their mid-40s, dating is STILL a stream of “someone says they’re interested and then all of a sudden they aren’t”. It’s just life.
Yeah, this is the thing, there’s all kinds of reasons someone can suddenly go cold when they’ve been apparently all “go go go” before. My brother had a tendency to be attracted to “straight boys” too, so for a long time he had a lot of bi curious flings and near romances, but they never went anywhere because they guys just weren’t ready to come out as bi (or gay in one case, 20 years after!) or were simply far more attracted to women.
@jaybee4118 I would tell your brother never to date someone who is bi otherwise get used to saying bye trust me I thought I was bi for over a decade and it's an endless stream of confusion those who are gay or lesbian really should just date other gays and lesbians for their own good
When my now husband and I started to date he said he was burned out of dating and didn’t want to anymore because they always ended up breaking up. I said “News flash, every relationship ends until you find the one that doesn’t. You just keep trying otherwise you’ll never find it”.
It doesn't matter if that's how it is to James. He felt that the rules didn't apply to him. That was the problem. It was obvious his young, stupid brain was also manipulative and controlling because he felt entitled. And it turned out there was a pattern of behavior before he became "famous" that supported how predatory he was when it came to sexual things. He didn't seem to mind taking advantage of other people or making them feel uncomfortable, or even emotionally manipulating them. It turned out that he was already a POS before his internet fame.
just becz you were stupid ad didn't know your sexuality doesn't mean every bi is stop mainstreaming your biphobia @@nunyabizness6113
Im so sorry to joke about this but I still regularly quote “oh my god time and place & you did it at my birthday dinner” 💀
Literally, any time someone says something stupid or something that I don't like. It doesn't even have to make sense, I'll still say it 😅
@@alyssamendoza7708 my sister and I had a joint birthday dinner and we both labeled it in our calendars as “and you did it at my birthday dinner” 😂🤣
Merch ✨
@@glowyaf lmao love that😂
unironically, tati actually finds the remark funny now😂 feel free to reference this quote without feeling guilty😂
So, to summarize: Top-tier narcissist, master manipulator and general no-goodnik Jeffery Starr recognizes in the younger, more attractive James Charles not just an arrogant little tick but an actual rival for Starr's throne.
Starr sets out on a campaign of manipulating other beauty influencers against James. It's subtle and long-term, but ultimately successful because one of Starr's talents is the ability to zero in on and exploit others' weaknesses. It might be ego, insecurity, emotional thinking, naivety, whatever, Starr could stay mostly behind the scenes while other influencers threw his bombs.
And of course, James' own massive ego, greed, and lack of scruples made him a ridiculously easy target. It was the social media equivalent of watching a viper fighting a scorpion.
@@RobinGH YES! I Just saw deep dive about Starr on Nikki Carreon..it was so good waiting for part 3. And Jen doing about Charles what a good combo!
@@RobinGH except for the fact that it turns out james actually is a predator and jeffree was right all along ...
yeah i really think jealousy + feeling threatened is what was always behind jeffrees hatred for james
More attractive?😂😂😂
@@Silenceeify 😆😆 Relatively speaking!
8:17 It's barely started and I'm already DEEPLY uncomfortable. All of the other morally questionable things aside, WHY is James talking about his sex life and ability to give b*ow jobs in detail, with hand gestures, with his FIFTEEN year old brother, who is clearly very uncomfortable, and broadcasting it to his audience that he knows is primarily young teens? It's wildly inappropriate
You see less and less boundaries between adults and children these days. All of my alarm bells go off. I wonder who was around James? As a parent, I look at them and wonder WTF???? Not in my wildest dreams could I even attempt to imagine speaking like that in front of my parents, even as a married adult. I dont ever actually speak like that, come to think of it. haha great video!
@@jaycievictory8461 yeah i have an older sister and we never talked or even joked ab that stuff before i became an adult that would be so weird it made me sad seeing his brother cringe and close off his body language cuz he was SO uncomfortable esp being posted online its bad
@@jaycievictory8461 Yes it was disgusting. He seems genuinely unaware of his actions and attitude and how it affects others. Or he’s just very selfish. Or it’s as Tati said, that much fame & money can change anyone.
Yes, I just got to that part. Super uncomfortable. 🥴 Read the room, why would you think your brother wants to hear about your escapades. 😖
His need to make it seem like a man attracted to women was also attracted to him trumps everything else. I'm even surprised he acknowledged that the guy wasn't completely straight. Because in his mind, he looks good /androgynous enough somehow that it would be enough for a straight man. That's not how that works.
oh my goodness I can’t believe my silly “busboy from Bellevue” joke made it into the video. thank you for including it ❤
Credit where credit is due!!!
i still can’t believe how entitled he was during the netflix documentary before knowing it was about counterfeit makeup. It’s insane he thinks he has more experience than a person that has had experience in the beauty industry years before he ever started doing makeup
Couldn't agree more, the blatant disrespect and entitlement was disgusting as hell.
He starts his tweet by addressing her as "this woman". Misogynistic, delusional.
Timestamp?
Or that he's the only one who had the idea to go to Netflix with a show proposal for one of the fastest-growing industries at the time 😂
It was clear misogyny
The problem I always had with Bye Sister was not Tati calling out the behavior but why she was doing it. She wasn't doing it because she saw alarming behavior, she was doing it because she felt slighted. She didn't just call out behavior she witnessed as well, she and Jeffree made a lot of things up, which called into question not only their credibility but it allowed James to walk away cleanly, and from that point forward every allegation fell flat because of them. I also hate when people say Tati was manipulated. She was a willing participant. The more that she leans into the crunchy pipeline these days I have to wonder why are people still giving her a pass?
Right?! If James hadn’t done the Sugar Bear Hair sponsorship would she ever have called out his suss behaviour? The birthday situation happened in February, and Tati didn’t say anything about it to James or anybody until after Coachella in May.
@@anitaspinuccispeculation.
Absolutely correct!!! if it wasn’t for the sugarbear sponsorship we would still not know
I think she was manipulated and a willing participant. I don't know if she would've started this without outside pressure, but she did choose to go forward with it and just trust that her sources were telling the truth. Exposes have to have lots to back them up, but she went forward and hoped that the evidence would follow. I suppose the evidence did follow, but not for a few years. James proved much of what she said all on his own, but that would've happened regardless of her making that video
Tati is FAKE AF
This series is turning into what I thought the conspiracy palette makeup series would be! Thank you for taking so much time to thoroughly cover one of the largest RUclips events in the platforms history. We appreciate your findings, narration, and touch of humor with sensitivity when dealing with the heavy stuff.
I just gave birth and had my first night home from the hospital with baby. Baby kept me up all night because she was always hungry. This video came right on time. I watched it while I was up with her. It helped me get through some of that rough night. Thank you ❤
Good job taking care of a hungry baby all night! Look at “night 2” stuff about babies and hopefully it’s a little calmer now. Take care new parent!
congratulations! wishing you and your baby the best ❤
One thing I will say about Tati is she's the prettiest crier I've ever seen. I'm a snot dripping, voice shaking mess when I cry, Tati pauses talking & delicately dabs her eyes.
@dizzieblonde same! I've never had tears elegantly fall from my eyes lol
She probably does that off camera tbh. On camera she’s holding it together more, and editing :)
Anyone can be a pretty crier and an ugly crier. A pretty crier is just a person who is holding back their tears and fighting to stay calm. An ugly crier can be the same person on another day. When someone actually lets themselves cry, their eyes get red and swollen, their nose gets stuffy, their expression contorts, their voice shakes or gets hoarse, and it happens to everyone if they cry enough. However you cry, it's all normal and nothing to be ashamed about!! 🙂
May she is a good actress 🤷🏼♀️
That because she’s a good actress. Look up her background
*NOTE* I've gotten a few comments asking about how I know that Sam recorded James illegally. You're right that most US states are "One-Party Consent States". However, Sam was in his home (or a friend or family member's home) in Washington and James was in his home in California when the recording happened. According to Justia, BOTH Washington and California are All-Party Consent States. Here's the info for the nerds, like me, who want to know more. :)
California "Under California law, it is a crime punishable by fine and/or imprisonment to record a confidential conversation without the consent of all parties, or without a notification of the recording to the parties via an audible beep at specific intervals. The California Supreme Court has defined a confidential conversation as one in which the parties have a reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or eavesdropping. In addition to criminal penalties, illegal recording can also give rise to civil damages."
Washington "Washington law requires the consent of all parties to legally record in-person or telephone conversations. Consent is considered obtained via a reasonably clear announcement made to all parties during the recording. Violations are considered a gross misdemeanor and can also lead to civil damages."
Since James was in California and the person whose rights were being violated, it's my understanding that California law would apply here. If found guilty of a misdemeanor, the penalty could be Up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $2,500. If found guilty of a felony, Sam could have gotten up to three years in prison and a fine of up to $2,500.
Even worse for Sam, if the alleged victim suffered economic damages as a result of the wiretapping, he or she may sue for $5,000 or three times the amount of the economic damages, whichever is greater.
So yeah Sam recorded James illegally and James had an absolute right to sue him.
Source: www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/ and tinyurl.com/5n78cksp
Yes, you’re right. Since James was the one being recorded he is the “victim” and the California law would apply. Same with making harassing phone calls, identity theft, and a whole host of crimes. It’s where the victim lives that matters.
@@jenluv Thanks for that! I had never thought about illegal recordings until I watched the Monica Lewinsky one on Hulu called Impeachment. I was a teenager when it all happened and I didn’t understand everything that was happening and didn’t have the google machine to help me. But now watching that show and what Linda did was illegal because of the law and recordings etc and that’s why things didn’t go the way she wanted them too..now things are adding up in that scenario. But anyway, it helps now knowing what I learned from that show and applying it to this situation and it’s all adding up!
As an attorney I approve this message 😂 You did such a good job of explaining it! ❤
This kind of research is what makes Jen’s video content so respected! 😊
@@christiedugal279 It was so well researched! So much respect for that! It’s better than just a bunch of opinions that don’t have much to back it up!
Jen. Your long form journalistic content is top notch. I trust your content so much.
@@Logger2008 right? The effort is priceless!!!
and as someone who studied journalism, i can say that jen does it WELL and does it RIGHT. she has integrity.
THANK YOU!I scrolled way too long for this comment. Drama and personalities aside, Jen's journalistic brilliance is what shines in these videos! Your unbiased, well researched and balanced views on things are what keeps me coming back! Thoroughly entertaining and informative, just absolutely professional! 👏👏👏
This is quite dark to think about but I also feel that since Shane (and possibly Jeffree) knew about the awful things Tati has experienced in her life, it was very easy to manipulate her emotionally. The allegations against James that, rightly so, labelled him a predator would have hit Tati hard.
I know as a SA survivor that that would send me in a tail spin emotionally.
this whole situation is so ridiculous. it's a bunch of people who instead of having an adult conversation they made vaguely worded videos and posts on social media.
Well they also love their lives in social media. I think the line for them is kind of blurred. Social media is literally more important to them, than anything.
And tati did talk to James.
It's really no different than any other friend or family spat these days... I see it every day.
Especially at tatis big age. I was like “girl if you don’t tighten tf up”…..
@@CHEFBO1ARDE3 She tried to talk to James before everything, but wasn't assertive enough so he never listened. Unless you walk in her shoes, please just recognize that you have zero idea how you'd be nor do you understand anything that happened behinds the scenes at any given time. Why be so judgmental? You bored?
Great job as always! I love your insights, research, and presentation. Thanks!
Tati also never had affiliate links. Which made her seem trustworthy.
She wasn't, of course. She was just already wealthy along with her husband and didn't need to spend the energy.
@@CrystalFiermore money never hurt anyone😂
@@CrystalFier I don’t think she would opt out of getting money just because she has money. That’s actually the opposite mindset to a lot of wealthy people.
She always disclosed when she bought things with her own money and when she got things in PR. She always tells the story of how she was broke when she started and that’s why she tried to find ways to get deals (like Madness Tuesdays). Anyway, the thing is that she chose her credibility was more important as a reviewer than getting affiliate codes.
I loved her doing her target deals when that stopped and the PR packages 📦 came in as soon as she said I’m not paid to promote this product ( she was paid to unbox it ) the more unboxing the more you make from different brands not just one off commission paid for one product review ( do the math on how many boxes Tati opened ) and background product placement. Tati went quiet when a new disclaimer rule came in especially in Europe if it’s a add or the RUclipsr is doing a paid promotion it has to be tagged or it’s not shown in Europe- TikTok owe millions ( 500million ) for failure to display adverts and failure to protect its community but it’s the add revenue that’s going to get TikTok closed down, I digress, Tati had her own game she played poker kept her cards close to her chest. Probably why she didn’t have other RUclipsrs on her channel she didn’t have to share her secrets and commission.
I will never forget watching the Bye Sister video. I had unfollowed Tati by that point because of her friendship with JS, but I was TUNED in for the video. I'm so glad I watched this because I never understood how people got that JC was a predator from Tati's video. I feel like the drama did not match what Tati's points were. It was always obvious to me that the vitamins were just the straw that broke the camels back for Tati. JC is a clout goblin (as is JS tbh) and she felt he owed her loyalty that he never intended to give to her bc he's more worried about the bag and having fun. Which isn't really that crazy for a 19 year old. It just sucks that because of JS and SD (I believe Shane was involved) that the plot got lost and Tati in the end paid the price for their meddling. We tried to warn Tati about JS but she didn't listen. It's a shame because Bye Sister kind of gave JC a free pass to continue his dangerous behaviors.
Yup
It was such a shame that the toxic friends got to her at that time. Her describing SD committing to her in "this life and the next" gives me the creeps every time. He's a skilled manipulator and people underestimate his involvement in everything that happened.
I feel so seen lol I feel like people who followed Tati during that time could clearly see her reasoning/how we got there, but people on the outside thought she was just a vindictive bitch. Not saying she’s perfect, I definitely think her downfall was befriending these truly vile people, but it’s just way more complicated than “well she’s 40 and should know better”
I love the direction your channel has gone! I never make it to live chat, but I always watch it. What's up in Makeup continues to be my favorite, but when you mentioned Swoop and her docs on RUclips and kind of emulating that kind of vibe I think I actually squealed out loud! I absolutely LOVE her, love her integrity and think you also have that in spades. Much love to you my friend and hope today is an amazing one! 💕
Thank you so much! Yes! I admire what Swoop is doing, DeAngelo Wallace, ContraPoints. So many people do this format so well. I hope that I can do the "deep dive" style justice the way they do!
And Cruel world happy mind
@@jenluv when your fave loves your other faves 🥹💜💜
swoop and integrity? you gotta be tripping i'm sorry
@@jenluv I think you do it better!!!!!!!
Really appreciate the level of detail and effort you've put into this
The way Tati dealt with the whole situation still to this day blows my mind. As a 37-year-old why would you go about dealing with the situation like that with a 19-year-old instead of having direct contact with him and asking him the specific questions and sharing your feelings as the mentor that she calls herself? She goes and listens to the opinions and advice of no other than Jeffree star and Shane Dawson and lets them get in her ear?? It's crazy to me. James might be guilty of the things that he's done, but I just feel like Tati as the full grown adult in that situation could've handled this wayyyy better. And honestly, the people around her at that time who advised her not to get into direct contact with James Also blow my mind because even if he did lie about anything at least you could've sat there with one or two people who would've heard him lying directly to you if you did find out something later. It's just so weird to me how it was dealt as old as she was at that time.
She claims she did though. She says she tried having talks about her concerns many times and he wasn't listening, so she took it public and figured he would hear her, but she would get the hate because he was bigger than her on yt. Tati doesn't really understand her audience/the internet. She seems extremely sheltered sometimes. Idk if it's an act or what, but she doesn't seem to pick the best ppl on yt to associate with.
@@seroquelz and she should've done it AGAIN as his so called mentor and a grown ass adult in the situation. It's no surprise at all that a 19 year old that she knew from when he was 17 isn't gonna listen the first time or even the 10th time, but in this case where he's the one reaching out to you multiple times through multiple people trying to get the situation right she should've taken it. I don't think it takes not having much experience in the internet to know how to interact with those much younger than you. Shit, I would've personally went to his parents first with my concerns as someone who claims to care about him soooo much before the thought of making a tell all video about him without confirming any facts and listening to the words of 2 class A manipulators.
@@seroquelzDid she ever ask James about the "receipts" that made her believe in Jeffrey's accusations? She claimed in her later video that she was manipulated by JS but a good friend would first seek out the truth by talking to the accused. Clearly, she just chose to believe what she wanted.
My mind is blown that she thought she would get the most flack from Bye Sister when she uploaded a video about the most popular gay man on social media and insinuated that him flirting with a stranger was predatory. She seriously thought his career wouldn’t end from that? What world is she living in where homophobia is apparently nonexistent 🙄
@@incognitofelon Idk man, if someone came to me with receits about a friedn of mine abusing someone I wouldn't ask them about it. Like, you think james would say what? "Oh, yeas, I used my power as a top influencer to try to hook up with (allegedly) minors?
Hi Jen… I know you probably won’t see this but I do think you missed one very important issue regarding Tati and James, and that is that she connected with him when he was brand new. She was already established and he was not -she and her husband took him under their wing. Her husband helped him on the business end of things and Tati gave him exposure by Collab Ing with him on her channel and bringing him on the trip to her destination wedding. She also had him do her wedding make up, which was major exposure also. They had numerous conversations about business. I don’t think she was wrong to expect loyalty because she and her husband had done so much for James Charles… And I think that is one part of the story that you may not have had or may not have thought about.
@@fiftyfeistyandfabulous7402 I’ve always thought it was weird that she expected so much of his character as a teenager, even if she poured into him. She comes off as a major people pleaser and naive.
Yes, because as a mentor you're giving so much valuable insight, time, and emotional support. I hate people talking about how Tati is so much older and should know better, but James was old enough to know better. He was hungry for wealth and fame. I think Tati was very emotional and taken advantage of. She was very supportive of James, but James should understand that when someone helps you so much, you do need to show some loyalty because she shared makeup and business know-how. He could really hurt her. I think there must have been more lying from James and then all the bad behavior he was showing online affected Tati. Everyone shows emotions differently, so yes, I think some people are better at trying to control their tears and emotions.
@@Cocochantelle Yeah, God forbid we have expectations of others... Him being a teenager is exactly why she reached out to him to help him. The time their relationship began, it was not easy to navigate the YT landscape and the beauty industry was literally hounding influencers left and right to promote their stuff and take advantage of smaller creators. Can't say I agree with your take at all. You come off as a major judgmental and shortsighted person.
Nah he was a teenager yeah he was obnoxious but he was a kid she thought needed guidance and obviously he didn't. She got sour about gummies and canceled a kid. Don't expect that kind of respect from a kid you "expect to grow up eventually".
At 19 I was getting married. It’s not an excuse to be an ass because of age. It can be a factor. But not an excuse. He could do better and should have. He had the people around him feeding what to do. Example Tati and James. Stop excusing peoples bad behaviour on gender and age or life circumstances. Because then the fact is true, boys will be boys, and all the other sayings.
So James obviously lied about the sleep bears working out for him, cause he had one night before the video to try them out 🤣. I know he lies about a lot but it shows how easily he lies to his fans. Without blinking.
I feel that's par for the course for literally every sponsorship though, unless someone already used and loved a product long before the sponsorship happened
@@joannamarieart probably 🙈. But this makes it so obvious since he came home that same day that he talks about them.
@@jennypettersson Oh I know, it's for sure one of the most egregious examples 😂🤦♀
@@joannamarieart oh yes 🤣.
@dizzieblondeI HATE that lying woman so much🤩
This series is definitely the best break-down of the bye sister scandal (and James's career) that I've come across and I've watched sooo many videos about it ever since it happened. I learned so many things that I didn't know before; making the timeline of it all so clear and discussing things linearly helped me understand the situation more and how chaotic it really was. You must've spent so much time on the research for this series but it's much appreciated!
The situation of course isn’t funny but “time and place” and “you did it at my birthday dinner” always kills me when people randomly reference it online.
Why does Jeffree always act like he's a mafia boss or something. He's so unhinged.
Because he's constantly (allegedly) on meth & that can put you into an alternate universe of your creation. That and the lack of food
@@JuicyfruitJessieBYou think a multi millionaire does meth 🤣🤣 sweetie he's on coke if anything
Jeffree Star is a terrible person who thinks he rules the world. Tati was manipulated into doing this but she’s not flawless either. James is also a terrible person but nobody deserves to have bad thoughts. Everyone in dramageton is a bad person and could have been avoided. Thank you Jen for this deep dive!
Edit: THANKS FOR THE LIKES EVERYONE!
Yes expecially since Jeffree has mentioned this voice memo all the time but never published it. He's never done anything about such terrible actions. If let's say I knew a close person hurted somebody I'd go to the police or warn others unless it was for my safety. But in this case there isn't no safety issue. They're both rich people who can afford to deal with it. It makes me question the validity of it all. It almost sounds like fake fish bait just hanging there for people to grasp and believe it's real food.
sooo true he said he had this whole file… like was he lying or did he realize the internet might not be fully behind him “exposing” JC after his redemption
@@bambamberg I don't think it's the latter. He either is lying about the whole thing. Or he's an enabler. I don't care if they've got redemption. If they killed someone they deserve punishment. Same for James. If he's hurt someone and is a know predator then show us, report it. This really shows where he got his morals. I mean he powered through the accusations of being a racists and acted like it never happened. Surely he can do the same with James. If he talks crap about him behind his back why be so cryptic? Just expose the damn guy to the authority. Unless it's all fabricated. I believe Nick from the Viewer's Voice had the same idea as we both have: that it's all a made up lie because if it was so damning then why didn't he expose him?
Yes he's a whole big drama story all on his own
lmao a grown ass 40 year old woman played by jeffree - nah she was pressed about the vitamins. She used jaffar as her out. She's just as petty and childish.
Jeffree Star must be just the most exhausting person to be around
I am tired just knowing I share an internet with him
Who remembers where they were when Bye Sisters dropped 🤚🏼Thanks for uploading this so early Jen. Been loving this series ❤
I was in MN visiting family and I was dying to watch the video but the family wanted to spend time together. 😐 🤣
@@jenmajczan3113😂😂😂
It was a time to be alive 😂
I was in my history class, completely ignorant to what was happening, and came home to the internet fighting for its LIFE.
I had just got off work. I literally watched it on my drive home 😂
Tati expected James, a then very young adult, to behave like her an older woman. For the Coachella thing, James did what anyone his age would do and just find any reason to continue to have fun. Your right when u said Tati was never really his friend but a mentor. To James Tati was a mentor only.
She also benefited from their association and looked the other way at his problematic behavior until her business was directly affected.
"Tati was saying James was taking advantage of straight boys and trying to convince them they were gay, not that he was a predator." Eh... The thing is, that is describing predatory behaviour so I can see why people very much conflated that with Jeffree and others outright calling him a predator and p*dof*le and assumed Tati meant the same thing. Especially as she namechecks Jeffree and "his receipts" several times in the video. This whole thing is such a murky mess. It's a fascinating and disheartening example of how social media and humans having emotions can spread misinformation and misunderstandings at the speed of light. 🙈🙈
While I agree there was a lot of misinfo being spread, I wouldn't lay that in Tati's lap. She was clear (tm atleast) on her issues and worries. She stated her concerns, and 'hinted' at the fact that she'd heard some worrying rumors. She never called him a p3do, but expressed concerns of things she had personally witnessed herself which isn't spreading misinfo. JS and those other rando celebs fanned the flames with misinfo and half truths, and then the flat out lies from those young guys looking for clout just made it worse. People online are rabid and lack media literacy.
But watching the first 2 parts we know they weren't wrong about him, dming under age b0ys. Man1pulating people's sexuality and his family. I belive the master mind behind all this was Jefrey, and he did it for his own ego, I don't see him having an issue with anything James did. But at the end of the day, James did do all those things.
@@flavialm1 Yes, I wasn't saying James didn't do those things. My point is, Tati's fear that there was a hit piece coming coupled with believing Jeffree when he said he had receipts (also the drama channel did the latter) meant that her video muddied the waters for true accusations since she was operating on incomplete or incorrect information. Similarly, those who lied about James m*lesting/ab*sing them and then recanted now means that James survives genuine accusations cos it very much appeared he'd been the victim of an unfair character accusation. There were other examples of that kind of incomplete or poor or wilfully deceptive information spreading that helped create the mess that exists today.
Agreed. Even though Tati didn’t use the word ‘predator’, what she described was clearly predatory behaviour. The subtext of ‘Bye Sister’ clearly painted James Charles as somebody who preyed on straight men.
@@anitaspinucci agreed but predatory behavior is immoral but isn't always illegal, pedo behavior is. She stated what she say, Star being the drama fien, that he is doused the story with gas and threw a match. I believe Tati did what she did cause she was concerned for some one she cared about, Star is just a crap human.
I find all of these people unstable and insufferable. But I watched this whole thing because your journalism, storytelling and analysis are exceptional! Great work!
cosign!
Add in manipulative and entitled.
My personal thoughts:
It allegedly seems like JS and SD created all of this to eliminate competition and get more crowd for the documentary and the makeup collab.
1. They get Tati to trust them and got a lot of personal information on her, to then manipulate her to make a video against JC by saying "he wanted to share this info with drama channels".. and they both knew where her soft spot was.
Why didn't JS publish a video about JC but let Tati get the love/hate about it?
Why was he comfortable talking bad about JC with anyone and even sharing a voice memo of a allegedly victim just to let people hate him and didn't contact anyone of JC's family or the police?
2. JS created lot of excuses to never met JC after the dinner party just to say "tati is right 100%,, i've never saw him again after the birthday dinner and my boyfriend won't let him in our house".. but never said he exchange messages with JC and..
why would u still hang out and collab with someone that u don't feel comfortable in your house?
I imagine this is going on way before the Bye Sister video and the gummy bears, otherwise the timing is.. suspicious
3. JS and SD were ready to let out new info against JC to stand by Tati..
but when the people where on JC side suddenly they didn't want to make the video anymore and made Tati the bad guy.
First they convince her to publish a video (even tho it could have led to JC not being with us anymore), they stood always by her side.. but then she is a liar? She's fake crying?
Lots of things aren't adding up but one seems clear:
It looks like JS never really cared about JC 🤔
i have a feeling that JS and Tati backtrack all their words and Tati backtracked her videos is because James had lawyers telling them to STFU. JS was about to post his own video and JC was like, oh hell naw. Tati has already exposed me I don’t need anyone else doing it. So he lawyered up and that’s why Tati deleted her videos. Because she was probably forced to by his lawyers, not because RUclips told her to. I think RUclips was living for this drama. 😂
Exactly, that JS guy is just bad news
I think all of this was encouraged, and manipulated by JD & SD. I hope Jen does a deep dive on them too, and all of this. I know she touches on them but I'm sure there is a ton more to discuss.
I 100% agree. JS and SD were definitely trying to eliminate their competition so he can be number one. As soon as Jeffree entered the beauty community, the biggest dramas revolved around him and it never even backfired for him. To this day he’s still very popular
The fact that someone like James has faced no consequences from social media platforms and is freely allowed to influence teens is disturbing and disgraceful
I remembered this when it was happening in real time. James was (and is) still entitled. I just restarted watching Tati, because I do like her. Love this series, Jen.
Now Tati is trying to sell our souls by getting us to watch her on TikTok
And i will 😂❤@@barbbandurski3679
@@barbbandurski3679you don't have to do anything you don't want to. Atleast she's grinding so that she can make her subscribers happy and relaunch her makeup line that they desperately want and trying to do it all on her own this time without investors. She's trying to stay out of the drama in more ways then one. Can't hate on her for that.
I love Tati. She made mistakes but she has always grown with humility and grace
Sorry Tati isn't innocent, she wasn't manipulated into hating James, she cited first hand experiences in Bye Sister. No where did she say that she heard this from Jeffree or Shane. Doesn't mean they didn't badmouth him, but she is a grown woman who spoke for herself.
Thank you.
You have a gift for storytelling Jen. This series has been so impressive to watch.
Right?! I don't even care about James and I been watching these religiously lol
The way people act about how Tati came forward is the reason why when I am hurt and backstabbed I am afraid to stand up for myself. Everyone just acts like you don’t deserve to stand up. They will point fingers at you and say “well you’re older you should know better” or “why are you upset?? They’re so young” “how old are you?? Why can’t you be the bigger person and just move on??” and imply other ageist things. Thanks for age shaming. Thanks for putting a person down when she rightfully stood up. Thanks for being such a toxic society.
Not claiming *this* community is toxic, but please take a look around.
Amen to that. Age is literally just a number. It doesn't reflect your experience in life. We're talking about a bully with a busy social life against an "island" who seems to have had less experience dealing with people. Comments like that are just more bullying.
People were not upset about her age, they were upset that she made ruthless and damaging accusations about her "friend' over her own pettiness and financial gain. You clearly have no idea what ageism is so stop throwing the word around where it does not belong.
She was ok with him being a predator until it affected her bag lol that's why she is inauthentic.
Well.
Expecting adults to conduct themselves like adults is ageism now? Do these words not have any meaning anymore?
And...Tati uploaded 5 days a week for many years!! Plus, she did not do sponsorships! So, she really grew her audience & channel based on appearing to be a very genuine person who was honest about her reviews...And clearly, she did get tons of PR but since she didn't do sponsorships like pretty much every other RUclipsr in the beauty space she wasn't beholden to any brand!! Edited to add - Jen, I think you are spot on with your assessment of the relationship between Tati & James - I totally agree! Therefore, in hindsight (bcse at the time I did not fault Tati for making her video) I believe that Tati's bye sister video was really a poor choice on Tati's part - understandable in the moment due to feeling so hurt & betrayed - but had cooler heads prevailed - how her story unfolded after that video would have been very different!!
I imagine Jeffree would have had a part in that given his reputation for calling people out and the constant bad mouthing of JC
Honestly Tati was the biggest loser in the Bye Sister situation. As a 37 year old causing this drama over vitamins with a 19 year old is WILD. And then to blame Jeffree and Shane, when again, she was 37 and should've known better than to trust two racists who were 9 times out of 10 always involved in social media drama in some way. They were known to not be trustworthy way before then! James even showed that he made an effort to reach out to Tati before she posted bye sister but instead of dealing with this maturely one on one with James, she chose to listen to the two worst people on the Internet. I've never been a James fan but I agreed with Gabriel's opinion of the situation. Jeffree is the actual danger to society here. Also, I feel like you're splitting hairs she definitely insinuated that he was engaging in predatory behavior. She may not have said it explicitly, but she opened the pandoras box.
I unsubscribed from Tati right before Dramageddon 2 because of how silly and immature she’d become on her channel. I honestly believe if she’d taken a beat and remembered that she was grown, Tati could have handled this situation appropriately.
@@stefflores best comment
Yuuuuuuup
thank you!! the fact that James did genuinely reach out to her and fix whatever she felt upset about and she chose to create a drama-storm and capitalize off of it. how sad to railroad a 19 year old when she could have just walked away. icing him out and THEN uploading bye sister was wild. you wanted to talk but just not to him? lol yikes. this comment is exactly how i felt too lol
As someone who was onto all of this things at the time, can confirm: JS video was a very 'wtf' moment, since he showed nothing, and nothing he said would happen did happen. On my view, Tati was far too deep into her emotions and was easily misguided, since also she was the dark horse in the race, as you mentioned in the beggining of the video: She was, and still is, a nice aunty that swatches makeup and brand did noticed her, but no one wants to take an aunt to a beach party full of teenagers, right? Her praise was somewhere else, and it was fine! But as she got in the turmoil that was full of super-egos, she reacted by fear. Jen, you have a great widespread view of this events, a view that I did had at the time when it happened, but had no one to confide on (I'm no american, no one on my social circle followed these people or events). I also sympatized with Tati because of that, since when I was yound I was also thrown in a similar situation with frinds (but not at the same level, omg), with each and every part saying a different story...
My point was always - she felt lonely all this time, found someone who accepted her and she got blindsided.
But she was also kinda right in her Bye sister video… if only it wasn’t made that quickly and she gave herself time to think about everything, things would turn out a lot different.
Same, when I watched the whole thing go, I couldn't believe how people reacted to it.
“I’m not shamin’ the butt-ness” had me rolling!! 😂😂😂
OMG!! So far you are the only person who has brought up the weekend 1 and weekend 2 issue!! Makes a huge difference in the narrative.
I was following Tati over two years when that happened, and I was Team Tati since the beginning because I did not like James. But I do think that the way she did it wasn't correct, but I always knew she was right. I'm glad time showed the truth.
I’m only 40 minutes in but I had to stop & give credit where it’s due. Jen, your hard work & dedication to this series is unmatched! WOW! I think you’ve found your niche with the Friday deep dives. I love your makeup content & I tune in every Sunday & Monday religiously for WUIM but you’ve unlocked a gift within yourself here. Your natural talent & growth as a creator is on full display here. Beyond proud of you! I hope this series garners the views & attention that it deserves.❤ Incredible work!🏆🏆🏆
Jeffree Star saying "all I know is honesty" makes me absolutely scream. I still can't believe the nerve he had acting like he's better than James. They're all horrible people. The only one I think has any redeeming qualities at all is Tati, because she just seemed so lost in this whole thing with how manipulative everyone around her at the time was. She's not innocent, but she was definitely a pawn in a bigger game. I do think Jeffree had way too much to do with this whole situation, he truly is like a cancer, he ruins everyone around him.
And that is not me defending James Charles.
He's one of the worst of all and still hasn't truly been held accountable to any justifiable degree for the disgusting things he's done.
Shane Dawson is 1000x worse than Jeffree Star imo, and his involvement in all of this was well hidden and understated. Shane knows exactly how to get people to do his dirty work. He plants seeds in their minds and uses his faux empathy to lure them into a false sense of security. He also loves to stir up shit for content, and because he's bored. He's very willing to spin a tale about anyone, any time, because he's literally just bored. When I watched him around the time all of this was happening, there were small things he'd say, passing it off as jokes, but it was obvious to me how he really viewed others. Plus the way he treated sweet old Garret.. Yeah, he's the poison in the well. I really don't get that vibe from Jeffree. I do think he's done plenty of insensitive things, especially when he's angry. But I also think Jeffree is a product of his extremely harsh, abusive environment growing up and he's way more likely to be honest than Shane. Shane doesn't have that same background to excuse his bizarre, duplicitous and honestly nasty behavior. Like who would joke about jerking off onto a cat or call a baby sexy MULTIPLE TIMES, while also sounding unironic? Nah.. he hinds behind a very well crafted mask of feigned innocence.
2 and half hours?! Let's goooooo.
Yes I’m at work like thank god I won’t be bored
I opened this video, and my husband said "I'll see you at noon!" 😅 He knows me so well!
Literally!!! I needed this today!
@@AubreyBouck_Brandavir😂😂😂 lol
These videos are so well researched, organized, and the commentary is on point. Excellent job and looking forward to part 4
Hey Jen! I hope you see this message:
I've been a subscriber for nine years now, and I still love your content just as much as I did when I first joined. I was only 19 at the time, and naively thought that the influencers with the most subscribers were the real deal… but wow, was I wrong. It wasn't until Dramageddon 2 that I realized how often the big influencers seem to copy or steal ideas from smaller creators. But you've been solid from day one-I remember when you had just 15k subscribers! There's something so genuine and real about you that I have no doubt you're exactly the same in real life as you are in your videos (which isn't something I can say about most other influencers). Over the years, I've stopped watching almost all the influencers I used to follow, but I'm still obsessed with your channel. And now that I'm more into deep-dive content, I'm absolutely LOOOOOVING your "Behind The Controversy" series. I can't wait to see what you have in store for us next (also, I always thought you have an amazing voice for podcasts). Hope you have an amazing day-you’re awesome! ❤
Yes!! We need a Jen podcast!!!!
2.5 hours and you still felt like you needed to do a 4th part. I appreciate your commitment to getting things accurate and lining up all of the facts! You're wonderful, Jen!
Wow what an awesome piece you have earned my subscription and I'm not even into beauty/makeup sphere. It's a real clear concise expose easy to follow for someone unfamiliar with any of this drama. Thank you this obviously took an enormous amount of time and this only partial in a larger story. So fascinating what I do t understand is why these creators don't first try to resolve things privately I mean I know JC made many attempts to resolve with Tati. I feel like no matter how long it takes for the conversation to get started that they continue it in person privately. I'm obviously waaay outside the loop. What a crazy world these people live in!You should be proud this is an excellent informative video. Kudos! Thanks! edit - and you are very funny. Ever consider doing stand-up you have great delivery lol
The other thing I took from this is this Jeff Starr is a terrible, horrible, no good person!! My goodness I don't even think he gets involved in this drama out of fear that JC or other beauty creators get more popular or have more followers but just because he can. Like he gets his cheap thrills trying to bring people down. Ok I'm done now.
rewatching all of this go down now that im older has me thinking one thing: holy shit the internet IS NOT YOUR DIARY. i think 90% of this became as bad as it did because everyone involved was just blasting every single thought onto the internet. i just wanna shake everyone and scream THE INTERNET IS NOT YOUR DIARY!! THE INTERNET IS NOT YOUR THERAPIST!!!
I’m very anti James Charles and was for Tati in the situation, but honestly in hindsight like it never was that deep. Makeup brands are competitors. I understand the hair vitamin game is much smaller, but it was 1 post, no money was exchanged. It was a legal matter after things were signed, it centered the sleep gummies, it was a story that would disappear in 24 hours, like yes I could understand feeling a little hurt by it but CRYING ON THE STORY?now if it was a longtime partnership deal and this was something premeditated I’d maybe be a little upset but I wouldn’t feel the need to put up and expose
it was most likely the straw that broke the camel’s back. she was never mad at him for “just vitamins”.
Ok I thought I was the only one who felt this way lol, totally agree. While I definitely agree with Tati that James should have just left, I can imagine that he was trying to find any way out of a stressful situation without leaving Coachella-so it's understandable that he wasn't thinking about her vitamins at all when he agreed to do the sponsorship in exchange for artist passes. If I was in Tati's position, I might be hurt, but people make mistakes and James wasn't necessarily trying to be hurtful, so I probably wouldn't end the friendship or put him on blast only because of of this.
Also obviously James even agreeing to do this sponsorship for a brand he's never used before is shady AF, but idk, it's not surprising to me at all that he did? Like that's just how most big influencers *are*, imo
@@laur83^*THIS*!!!
It drives me crazy that everyone boils Tati's reaction down to "it's just gummy vitamins". No, gummy vitamins were the straw that broke the camel's back. They were the tipping point. I think if people are honest with themselves and they look at the times when they decided to withdraw from a toxic relationship, the tipping point is always something relatively small in the grand scheme of things. It's the final betrayal, and it comes when you are already on the brink.
Plus, when you consider the other forces behind the scene manipulating her and whispering in her ear, it all makes perfect sense.
The vitamins were the straw that broke the camels back. It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was just another issue that added to her growing list.
@@seroquelz I agree, and I understand what she did what she did, but still I feel like she could have handled the situation privately at first, or at least taken a few days to think it over so she would be able to explain the full context when she went public with it.
@41:50 I honestly am with James on this one. I really don’t like him for many reasons but it’s just ridiculous to expect your friends to pledge brand loyalty to you. I lost respect for Tati for starting this whole thing over her vitamins. When I first watched the bye sister vid I thought the falling out had to do with some serious allegations Tati knew, not because she was butthurt over this hs level bs. the truth is, as self-absorbed as James is, there is something really off about a 30 something woman who makes using her dumb vitamins as a requirement for being her friend.
Tati 100% felt like James success was because of her
im new here and i was absolutely shocked when u said "in my 46 years of life", i fully thought you were early 30s max, you look really good, love the video
nu uh she's really 46 no way. I thought she was early 30s tops
I wish I knew her skincare routine. For some reason I think that just made me like her more and I already really love her show and how she spills the tea with facts and receipts.
yes...........I was shocked too............I heard her say her age in another video and couldn't believe it. I thought early 30s too.
I always thought that Jen was younger too. I was shocked when she said that she was my age. I thought she was like 35.
I was so shocked too! There’s no way she’s a day over 35!
1:24:07 She is a audible/verbal processor, so the more she speaks, the more her brain connects the dots. It's incredible normal in neurodivergent people, since we tend to have processing issues. This is why a lot of us may seem stupid in new encounters, but deep inside, we tend to be a lot smarter than others, since our cognitive empathy and empathy in general, is very high.
Coffee made, calls cancelled, SEATED.
I have chores to do 😭😭 I'll watch it while im cleaning lol
I feel like Jeffree manipulated everyone, us included, because he wanted to bring everyone down a few notches. Jeffree gives the vibe of someone that wants to be top dog and I think he saw James and Tati as serious competition. So he manipulated things so that James and Tati would make bad PR moves and he could swoop in like everyone's problematic fave.
Yeah I think the fact that Tati WAS so isolated and behaved like a person while still being an influencer worked against her as far as forming friendships in the influencer community. She expected these people and this kid to also be well adjusted and ~human when that's just not the case for many of these beauty influencers of the time tbh. Tati wasn't an AD machine or shill at the time like most of her counterparts and her reviews were always thorough and heartfelt and came from a place of experience. The kind of popularity that comes from being a shill changes a person and their content and you can see it even in influencers today.
Tati expected James and Co. to care about what she would think (whether that was as a friend, mentor, or peer) when those kinds of creators just Do Not care about anything other than their views and what that can get them. James and Jeremiah Starfish are especially bad examples of the community, first of all for the obvious reasons of predation and racism, but also because they are the pinnacle of mean girl behavior. As soon as you get near them at the top to either step on their turf or say/do anything to threaten the idealized vision of their world they'll turn on you in an instant and bring their followers with them. People poke at Tati for being overly emotional and jumping the gun on making a video about James but in all reality she probably had been dealing with microagressions/issues for a WHILE before this final straw, and we know if she had said or done even one thing Jeff would've gone ballistic waaay sooner.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Not to mention JS and SD were behind the scenes hyping her to make the video. She was all in her feelings and allegedly they were bts stoking the flames and encouraging her to speak out. People also forget that she's a SA survivor and hearing that voicenote probably sent her spiraling. I think a lot of people need to look inward and deal with their misoginy and ageism before they trash an "old woman" for being hurt by someone she thought cared about her feelings and her business. I see people in the comments here hinting that Tati is some kind of pred herself smdh.
THIS!! Tati was expecting to deal with human beings, not manipulative jerks obsessed with their own infamy.
@@thecryingcryptid I still love the use of name Jeramiah starfish 🤣- js will always be the Voldemort of the beauty community
If Tati had really cared she would have picked up the phone and talked to James rather than taking him down publicly. That woman is so self-righteous and dishonest, she probably even believes her own lies.
@@incognitofelon there are literally receipts in the video above of tati messaging james about it??
I think what so many, and especially Tati, missed at the time, was it’s not about “trying to turn straight men gay”. It’s *harrassment* regardless of their sexuality. The former has a homophobic air about it.
It's only harassment if someone keeps bothering despite being turned down. Tati and a lot of people are clearly homophobic when they say DMing straight men is predatory. No one would ever think that a woman DMing a gay guy is predatory.
@@incognitofelonsimply DMing, no. Harassing people, yes, which he did do. What Tati said was homophobic. She was right, but for the wrong reasons. What she saw was harassment, but she interpreted it in all the wrong ways. (And notice, I did say it “has a homophobic air about it”, but I wish I had been direct now). Edit, I also see you’re blindly defending him everywhere, so I’m not going to bother.
I think it’s also worth noting that in the case of the birthday dinner; flirting with and asking coworkers for information about another staff member is harassment. They’re at work, they can’t tell you to buzz off or or stop because they might get in trouble/lose their job. There’s a power dynamic in play and that seems to me what James likes.
@@MaplestreetLaneyes, that what I’m talking about. I’m sorry it wasn’t clear.
How Tati didn’t realize the homophobic language she was using in bye sister could completely end his career is still beyond me.
RUclips needs to have an HR department for their content creators
Omg yes!
To me, I think James supporting a rival product was Tati’s tipping point. Plenty happened prior to this and I think the vitamin was the final straw. James lied about his use of the sleeping vitamin as he could have only tried for one night. I think he is definitely a narcissist and rather creepy in his interaction with straight males. I am glad Tati no longer has him in her life and that she is back being her beautiful and authentic self. Well done Jen, you have done an amazing job with this series.
You have found your niche!!! This is amazing. Long time watcher and will be 4 ever
Well worth the wait for part III... This was beautifully researched, arranged, and edited!! Appreciate all of your hard work!
No one was innocent in Dramageddon 2.0 ! I remember watching this go down and thinking the mastermind behind all of this was Jeffree Star. However, from the very beginning when ppl felt so bad for Tati, I didn’t! A grown woman going on her huge platform crying about vitamins, but hiding under the guise of how much she truly cares for James, but in reality this about greed and a huge ego. No one will ever convince me til this day that Tati did not know exactly what she was doing, I’ve always agreed that Jeffree may have manipulated her, but in reality that was Tati’s way of taking zero accountability, and further victimizing herself. One thing for certain is that we all know James Charles is a predator. He has been caught multiple times speaking to minors and his behavior continues to be enabled til this day.
I think it's a good thing that Ashley had her own wake up call and took a break. These drama channels need to realize the seriousness of their content
Yeah I followed Ashlye at the time, and her video saying she was on the payroll really disappointed me, but also it was pretty obvious that she was in regular communication with him. I'm glad she stepped back
1:24:31 yup. Therapists will use active listening in coordination with validating reflection statements. This helps people hear themselves out, process the problematic issue, and find their way to the core issue(s). Then working to make a values consistent and mindful decision of what the person then wants to do about it. Good intuition Jen!
👋🏻 from a fellow ND peep.
I am very anti James Charles but there’s also something really icky to me about Tati and her husband icing out a teenager who is repeatedly trying to apologize and looked to them like parents instead of directly stating anything about ending that relationship.
@@lidaloo263 I fully agree. I think Tati should have taken his calls. JC's confusion and hurt at being dropped from their life seemed genuine. She should have handled it privately and could have remained a voice of reason in his ear.
@@raetona Exactly, she listened to gossip and ignored both private apologies and a very public one that he made without request. He was trying every way to rectify the situation but she immediately cancelled someone she claimed to be a parent figure for. At least Jeffree Star was responsive. For claiming to be a mother figure, Tati acted far more immature than James Charles and seems to have used her age gap as an excuse to be holier than thou when she was just as childish. She didn’t have the decency to at least say please give me some time and space.
A teenager who is also allegedly a predator
@@laurazepam8382 yes, but that actually makes it worse. They completely shut him out, cut off their access to know what he was up to, and didn't do a single thing that actually could protect the public. "I saw enough to be afraid" okay, well, encourage medical help? Gather actual evidence to build a case? Abandoning a mentally ill teen escalates their behaviors.
@@laurazepam8382 I mentioned I’m anti James Charles, but what broke their relationship was Coachella and hair vitamins. How long would she have been in his corner if he didn’t perceivably slight her business? There weren’t any minors making allegations at that point and in her video she was bothered by his approach to straight men as if tacking on every bad detail she can recall. Didn’t say she should maintain the relationship, it’s not an appropriate one anyway to be mother/mentor/colleague, but the way she went about stonewalling rubbed me the wrong way.
I know this is serious but “AND YA DID IT AT MY BIRTHDAY DINNER” gives the same exact vibes as *”HARRY DID YA PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GOBLET OF FIYAH?!” Dumbledore asked calmly* like they exist in the same space in my head
I'd like to add one thought to all the wonderful comments so far before finishing this part: it still doesn't sit right with me that this was called "Dramageddon" (even though I totally get why it was coined that way) - because even though the reasons WHY these people went off against each other was Drama, but the topic discussed most definitely was and is NOT.
The “dramatic much” on the bday video 💀😂😂😂😂😂
I actually didn't put that in! Tati had that in the original video! But I agree! 😂
I watched the whole drama in real time when it happened. Revisiting it with your telling of the story, Jen, I'm more and more convinced that:
While there may have been "business reasons" for JC and SD to get competitors out of the way, there also may have been the sheer enjoyment of power, manipulation, chaos and destruction. In the words of Batman's butler Alfred:
"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."
That may be too overly dramatic a view for some of you. But to those of us who've been targeted by abusers, narcissists and sociopaths, it often rings awfully true.
I agree. Looking back it was so calculated. And when tati’s video explaining how she was manipulated dropped, the reaction from Shane was the nail in the coffin
Imma be real being that famous that young would’ve also made me do stupid things but a 37 year old letting a 19 your old call her mom and then being so dramatic over something so small is crazy
I’m at 1:47:40 im not at all a James C supporter, I do not agree with most of his behavior. HOWEVER, seen everything told in the timeline it happened we can all agree that JEFFREE STAR was the MAIN reason everything unfolded the way it did, he manipulated everyone behind the scenes to say things… Years later and now being a grown adult myself I can say Jefree constantly harassing James and manipulating people to do things and say things could’ve had catastrophic consequences with James. Jefree/Tati were grown adults James was still a teenager !!!!
20:15 the reason was that she saw snotty and rude people at these trips. She has a video sharing this. She went to one event like that, and she didn't like it bcz of that exactly. Tati is a classy gal and doesn't mix with just anyone. Of course she is also innocent where she didn't have much discernment and that is how she let herself fail when friending with Jeffrey and Charles. But you live and you learn.
I liked Tati and because I'm about the same age I could never understand why she became friends with these group of awful individuals, it was as clear as day at the time that they were all disgusting. She was old enough to have better judgement. She totally lost me there.
Also, imo, she was already rich and wasn’t desperate
@@elizzzabeth82 Exactly Tati is really very wholesome on her channel
She is my same age as well... But not all have the same intelligence when it comes to telling who's bad and who's not.
This has been an incredible series to watch. One can clearly see so much research and effort went into it. Well done
Watching this while I eat a nice big breakfast. Its so interesting to see you summarize this as someone who was "there". I was mostly a fan of Tati, never of James. I was subscribed to Jeffreee. And the drama channels, I ate all this drama up for breakfast, llunch and dinner. It was a fascinating dance battle between a bunch of successful influencers with narcisssitic traits. I still like Tati, I think she is a sensitive person like myself, I understand her, it wasnt about the vitamins, its about the principle of it. You help someone be successful with genuine care and love, only for them to show no loyalty whatsoever. Yes she should have taken his age into account, a 19 year old boy can be insufferable with the cockiness. However, he was old enough to be doing business so he knew what it was. I'd love to see you breakdown the whole Shane, Jeffree, Trisha drama.
Well said. I came to say something similar.
As a lesbian the whole trying to turn straight men gay is so fcked up and I hate how society treats it like a joke. My bff is straight but so many of our classmates and “friends” don’t believe that because he’s a dancer and kind of feminine. He keeps telling them to stop but they just treat it as a joke. We get upset when a straight man says he’ll turn a lesbian straight so why don’t we get upset when gay men say that?
I'm definitely not a james charles fan and have never been his target demographic. However, as a woman in her 30s, it makes me very uncomfortable that Tati would ever expect anything from James--whether that be promotion of a brand or even friendship. He was a teenager, talk about predatory behavior. IMO he just seems like a reactionary teenager that would have benefitted from being able to live like a normal kid
I agree. Her expectations to be able to use his platform to promote her brand was weird and super entitled
I think when someone hypes you up and you help them out and then they act a fool it’s hurtful. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable because she’s not a gross person plain and simple.
Eh, I'm a woman in her 30s and I don't know about this. I get not expecting anything from a teenager, but at the same time they were both moving in the same professional and personal circles and those sorts of deals and transactions and friendships were common. And he had, for all intents and purposes, had those types of relationships with lots of other people who were significantly older than him.
It's interesting how Tati gets all sorts of criticism for being an adult woman having this relationship with a teenager, but what about literally every other drama influencer in James' circle? They were all older than him, but his interactions with them aren't as scrutinized.
And, let's be real, he was a teenager but also a legal adult. He was making business deals with major brands, he was forming deep connections with other major influencers, he was making requests of other major influencers (like his deal with Nikita), but Tati is somehow out of line for seeing all of that and expecting the same?
Maybe it was unrealistic in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think it's that ridiculous to see a legal adult who was making deals with huge brands like Morphe and had friendships with adults in their 20s and 30s and not knowing from the outside that he was actually extremely immature and unprofessional.
This just feels ageist tbh lol her and her husband were mentoring him and were actually responsible for a lot of his success with brands like Morphe. They were looking over contracts and things for JC. She wasn't partying with him. She expected loyalty because her and JW had made JC millions of dollars by directing him on how to handle brand deals and in the text msgs that were shown he made a promise to only promote Halo. She shoulda got it in writing tbh, because that's a brand collab, but she thought JC was like family (mistake). She shouldn't have expected much from him though, he was a kid and kids do thoughtless crap all the time.
@@seroquelzso they were grooming him? Yeah it’s fucking weird. She knew he was younger and freshers with a potential that she could capitalize on and get her ROI. She’s worse than James because she weaponized her tears and she also showed her ass by flip flopping as ppl started to see that she clung to something (confirmation bias) just to get her revenge on her lost investment.
It took me 3 days to watch this video and o finally finished it! I’m so impressed by the way you pulled it together! ❤
Me too😂
I will never forget the day bye sister was uploaded, I was in high school at the time and every single person had a think piece about it. Never in my life have I seen such a crossover from internet to in person spaces
My problem with Bye Sister is, JC prey over minors and "straight boys" long before this, but it was all fine for Tati until the vitamin incident. Like, why did you wait Tati?
Wow 2.5 hours and still another episode to go! What a mess this situation was!!! Thank you for this. So interesting.
What type of people go online and attack their "real world" friends to millions of literal strangers, but refuse to actually speak to their "friends"? I have no respect for any of them. They are all narcissists who show zero respect for other people.
YEesss! My doctor's appointment isn't until 9.30am . Thanks Jen. I'll go and get my breakfast 😎💕
lol you posted under the announcement didn’t you? Haha I’ve been trying to figure out why you could comment 8 hrs ago 😂😂😂
@@standdownrobots_ihaveoldglory lol
This has been the best find ive ever found on RUclips! Your voice is so comforting and i appreciate the next level effort put into the subject matter
I haven't been interested in social media very much. I'm an older woman and I guess I've seen more of the darker side it can cause in people when their entire day is flooded with every type of "social media star" coming into their world. Their interests are picked up as soon as they click on something, and they are suddenly bombarded with that type of content. I've been watching your research on James Charles. I think he's left quite a lot of damage behind him and doesn't really care. In my opinion, he's a narcissist with some other very obvious issues and needs serious help.
I hope what you're doing here can give some of his victims a sense of hope that there are people who see them and wish them well. Thank you for the work you put into this. You've done an incredible job.
I think for younger people, Bye Sister was when we took a moment and realized how parasocial our relationships with beauty gurus were. Because we had no way of verifying any of the drama and I remember suddenly realizing I had no idea how any of these people could be using their fame for manipulation. I haven’t been “into” any influencer content since, it’s lost its sparkle for me!
When she did the bye sister video it seems maybe Tati was still coming at it from a place of concern and hurt, feeling like she couldn’t trust him because of things done or said, things that none of us know were said. I think we all have our “here is my line in the sand” area. But we don’t always know when there will be that one action, or words used that will be the straw that breaks the relationship.
I know that’s a lot of metaphors. I just remember it happening with a former friend of mine. I was shocked at what that straw was and when it happened and why it happened and I never saw it coming.
But when certain things happen, you mourn it. You mourn what was, what could have been, and you mourn the loss of that person from your life. Maybe that is where some of Tatis initial video came from.
Longtime subscriber here-I have to say that I love how your channel is evolving and changing with the times. Great work 👏🏼✌🏼💛