1:12 I personally believe that miquella and godwyn did absolutely exist at the same time because he went on a crusade to try to give godwyn a “true death” and we see statues of the twins holding on to a third figure who some people believed to be marika but I think it is actually godwyn because the hair is not braided in the way that we traditionally see marika and flows freely like godwyn’s hair that we see in the intro
I don't disagree! And for the reasons you detailed. My grievance is really with our moon wife not telling us even though she knew about Miquella and Godwyn.
Glad to see another video by you! To me, the omission of the Sun in a game where the Moon and stars are heavily focused on leads me to think it's as important as the Elden Ring perhaps. There was a Jesuit scholar in the 17th century called Anasthasius Kircher who was praised for his erudition. Unlike Orthodox Christianity, which believed the Earth to be at the center of the cosmos, having it's own generative powers like a womb, Kircher thought differently. He believed the planets revolved around the Sun, and that it was a roiling mass of fire that had various properties. His idea was that the sun's rays carried liquid fire to fertilize the Earth with its energy. He used an analogy to explain the sun's fires having different properties, comparing it to a Crucible, where metals are melted and blended, with the fumes being dispersed having varied properties. My thinking so far is that the Crucible in Elden Ring drew its powers from the Sun to give birth to all of the varied life. I believe the "ancient holy essence" spoken of in item descriptions is the Sun's powers, now usurped by the Golden Erdtree. It's like a reverse Dark Souls situation where instead of Gwyn screwing over everyone for the Sun, Marika screwed the Sun instead. Gwyn is rolling around in his grave I bet.
Thank you so much! And that's a really fascinating historical parallel! I'll definitely have to dig into Kirchner. I do like the idea of the Crucible deriving its powers from the sun; we even have the warming stone item description, which may hint at that: "It's said that the Erdtree was once as warm as the gentle sun, and would gradually heal all who bathed in its rays."
‘Twas 15~ years ago that I overheard Jerry Stiller’s “airing of grievances” bit on TV… I tucked the idiom away in some far-off pocket of the mind, hardly comprehending what a ‘grievance’ was, let alone how one would air them - the verbiage sounded cultured to my fledgling ears at the time, so I held fast onto it… And so the years went by - and all throughout them I searched, longing for an opportunity to let loose my knowledge of this most obscure pop-culture reference, but as you might’ve guessed, nary such an opportunity arose… until today! At long last, the time’s come to dust off these olde neurons and proclaim that I indeed understood that reference, friend!
This is basically why I prefer Dark Souls lore. A clear timeline, a fairly simple world, but emotionally very impactful in so many ways. ER is too abstract, full of whens and whats, but not whys and wherefores. Also great use of the Cleric Beast OST when talking about Goldmask's disappointment with clerics gone mad from lust for power to have an absolute evil to fight lol
Fair enough. The main themes of Dark Souls are brilliant too. But Elden Ring's lore and world completely surpassed my expectations as we slowly pieced it together these last 2 years. I don't think there is ever gonna be a fantasy world I enjoy more tbh
Glad to know I'm not the only one; ER is excellent in many ways and I have gotten quite attached to the personal storylines of various NPCs, but the overarching story felt so vague, even when I actively tried to understand it during gameplay. The opening cinematic is probably a good example: in DS1, we learn of many of the key players, the history of the world, and the curse of undeath, zooming in on our own situation. Still much to learn, but the foundation was there. In ER, the opening cinematic just made me more confused than anything - mention of various events, the introductions of a bunch of characters, but very little understanding of how any of those were connected to each other and to the wider world.
Marika removing death from the Elden Ring is what caused so many of the downstream issues the Lands Between face, and why we can meet the participants of the Shattering war. I think the DLC is going to focus in on this point and finally make the game's story cohere. As for Iji's flames, I have seen one rationalization: the black flame is only red when it's actively killing, and since Iji is dead, it regresses to the weaker variant that the Godskins have. Is this justified anywhere? I have no clue
To me Marika’s motivations have to be the biggest ??? Thing in Elden Ring. Like, she’s crucial to so much of the game and we have tons of dialogue of her doing spooky stuff (looking at you, Gideon) but we have no idea why. And I doubt this will be experienced in the dlc
I think that's alright, personally. Marika is, after all, a God. She's about as far removed from others as one can get, her motivations and schemes only known to her. Heck, we probably know more about her other half, Radagon, and that feels intentional. The entirety of the Shattering seems like such an incredibly bizarre event that it invites wild speculation, fueled by the absolute scraps of knowledge on Marika. I guess I like the vibe there. Makes for all sorts of interesting interpretations and theories, from a grief-stricken mother lashing out in anger, to a cunning manipulator who orchestrated the timeline of her age in order to destroy an order she came to despise, to the Shattering being a gamble to force the Greater Will into appearing out of desperation, etc. Although I do also hope we'll get more of a clue in the DLC. The speculation surrounds Miquella, Godwyn and the Haligtree, so, I imagine there would be space there to clarify the exact relationship of Miquella's order with Marika's, thus fleshing both out.
I thought the Helphen Steeple’s placement was quite justified. Sure, it was only accessible after meeting many of the Tibia Mariners… but, specifically, a tibia mariner in the Mountaintops. There’s incredible detail in the Mountaintops to set it apart from the rest of the Lands - that, it is a land close to spirits. The worlds between Spirits and physical becomes blurred once reached the mountains, as climbing the world’s heights would bring one closer to death. Spectral Trees, spectral animals, abundance of death-related items and bosses, Castle Sol, the Moons light is brighter here…all of these aspects leading to the realisation that it would probably make sense why a weapon of Helphen would be found amongst a Spirit enemy found amongst a half-spirit land. Sidenote: the lore of the Helphen is near-non-existent, so I thought the obscurity of the Helphen steeple’s placement was apt in a way. Ultimately, I disagree with the second grievance *personally* but I whole-heartedly agree with the placement of Orderhealing lol like why tf is it there😂 Also as for your 3rd Grievance. I think them REMOVING details such as: Miquella being successor, Carians helping Miquella, Beast intelligence granted by GW, Trinas quest line blatantly revealing Miquella’s alterego. ‘Removal’ of all of these things are justified, in my opinion, in the sense that they explicitly detail revelations of the world in a way I think Fromsoft and Miyazaki don’t typically do. All details of context of things mentioned above can already be found within the game currently to support these, previously 1.00, explicit lore canonisation, just in a less obvious way. Staying on topic of 3rd grievance. I think the REMOVAL of lore data is fine, but I can definitely see how the CHANGING (e.g - maliketh blade colour) or ADDING (e.g - Iji death flame) of lore can prove as being discombobulating lol. It is for this exact reason I try to stay away from any unused/cut-content, as it tends to ruin my enjoyment of the game I had Miquella’s secret identity as St Trina spoiled to me through Dataminers, where the quest literally would explicitly say “St Trina, no, I meant Miquella”, instead of discovering this on my own through the abstract details of the basegame. It’s also good to stay away from this type of behind-the-scenes content as it may not be the dev’s intentions/ may be accidental, so they change, remove, or add George RR Martin is guilty of rewriting complete scripts and concepts for ASOIAF, like his original intentions for Jaime Lannister to be king on the Iron throne (source: ruclips.net/video/evsnpnTJ5iA/видео.htmlfeature=shared), but he rewrites these details in order for it to fit more for the person he is at his respective age of writing the books. Imagine if fans were somehow able to “datamine”, in a similar sense, to see all of his original work that would vastly differ from what we have today, it would drive fans crazy into thinking crazy things that may not even be relevant anymore as GRRM deleted those concepts. I see the same here, as the searching of 1.00 details and/or datamining of particularly Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring turned me off to their respective basegame lores for a while. I had to later accept that these datamining details as simply deleted-scenes lol I 100% agree with your first take tho😂😂 playing Elden ring feels like a dream because I literally do not know how to picture most of the order of events in my head, in that sense lmao (Note: I use GRRM as an example, not because he worked on Elden ring, but more that he and Miyazaki are coincidentally my favourite fantasy creators lol😅)
Very well said! As for the order healing, it could have been carried there by D's twin and dropped to be collected by the scarab when he lost his armor maybe? This altercation between the golden order and the nox people kinda mirrors the church hunters vs the vilebloods. We even get a dialog similar to Alfred when he kills the queen from D's brother when he kills Fia. There's golden centipedes all around the scarab too. I don't think anything is ever placed anywhere haphazardly in these games. We just have to keep thinking and exploring more deeply.
Thank you for watching and for leaving such a detailed comment with great points! You're right: having the Helphens's Steeple drop in the Mountaintops of the Giants with all those spirits thematically fits quite well. (And now that you mention it, I would if it would have been even better if we found it in the Forbidden Lands, considering the red light. Then again, that might be too obvious for FromSoft 😅) Though my main criticism still stands: the Tibia Mariner should have been more of a unique and memorable boss encounter (Tibia Admiral?) considering the importance of the item he drops. (There's already a great example of FromSoft reusing a common boss enemy in a unique way in the Mountaintops of the Giants, with the Erdtree Avatar that can summon its own Mimic Tear.) And I certainly understand why folks prefer to steer clear of cut content! Though what makes the 1.0 version so compelling is that these changes were made so late in development, they reveal that a lot of the details for the lore were still up in the air, even after the game discs were being printed. It would be like if GRRM released The Winds of Winter (this is a hypothetical, so bear with me 😅) but he made significant revisions and edits between the printing of the dead tree versions and the ebook you can buy for Kindle, etc.
So I definitely think it makes sense for a Golden Order Fundamentalism spell to be placed near D's twin! In addition to all those great points you brought up, it is downstream of the Deeproot Depths, which reminds me of how the curse of immortality spread through the rejuvenating waters becoming stagnant and corrupted on Sekiro. (And the centipede was a symbol of ill omen/death in Japanese folklore!) That said, it's still frustrating that the spell they chose was so tied up with Goldmask's ending and nothing in the quest has you explore that area. (The fact that you get half of Goldmask's signature T pose from one of the D twins does make me wonder if the Goldmask quest was somehow tied in at an earlier stage of development, but that's just speculation.) And you're right: so many of the item and enemy placements are absolutely deliberate and purposeful. But then there are a couple that seem bizarre/haphazard (looking at you, Consecrated Snowfields!). So that can present a bit of a maddening dilemma when lorehunting: Do you try to go even deeper and uncover the significance (when it could just be nothing)? Or do you concede that you might be reading waaaay too much into it and just need to touch Grace, (and potentially miss out on a major revelation)? Basically, it's why I love/hate FromSoft 😅
I'd just like to note that I am strongly starting to think that time as a concept in the Lands Between seems to be somewhat broken. From my understanding, it's not just me who has come to this vibe/conclusion that there is something off with how time flows (or doesn't/works in general) in the Lands Between. It's also almost paradoxical how events can be both ancient history and almost feel like affairs of yesterday. It's also not restricted to the demigods or gods, but you also have people like Queen Rennalla and the Carrian royal family being a bit of an oddity seeing as they are both ancient yet so very feeble/feeling like a very young dynasty. Even minor characters of less importance like Thops, who, per his own wording, had just "popped out for a bit" prior to the Raya Lucaria academy sealing spell being cast is still around healthy and fairly young. The academy sealed itself off after declaring it will take no part in the shattering, meaning it's been like this for a while. This means Thops would have been locked out for a long time...yet the guy is still a pretty spring chicken. Yet another example of how the passage of time is being very odd, as he certainly should be if not dead from aging, quite a crusty old bat. Despite being sympathetic and actually quite brilliant in his own way, he is not a mage of grand power able to cheat death by gaining long age from great forces or magical machinations. By all means, just about as regular of a fellow as you can have around the Lands Between. And yet still oddly safe from the ravages of time and hostile forces alike until our Tarnished meddles. Furthermore, it also feels like different regions have differing workings of time, with only some individuals (usually related to the divine or having their own part to play in things ala quest npcs) able to do anything to alter their state of being (and usually only with a push or violence from the Tarnished) stuck in time. Most entities, NPCs, enemies, and the likes seem doomed to repeat endless cycles of being stuck in decay. Dispatch them, and they will just rise again as soon as the Tarnished sits down to rest at a found site of grace.
I can definitely see the appeal of that theory! That's certainly the impression I got for Farum Azula at least. And you're right that sometimes seems a bit off about Thops. Though it is interesting that the Raya Lucarian robes say that the academy's sorcerers have "extended life," which could explain why he hasn't aged at all in the years (centuries?) since the Shattering.
@@garrulousgoldmask Unlikely that our good buddy Thops got to go on such a field trip, but it's also worth noting the Four Belfries which is in Raya Lucarian/former Carrian territory contains a portal that drops you off in... Farum Azula. Considering what the potential implications of the Four Belfries/key locations is, it's amazing no lore channel seems to have so far gotten really interested in it. Gateway to Farum Azula, Nokron, and the chapel of flipping anticipation where the returning Tarnished pop up in after crossing the mists. A certain demoralised Queen (with dragons sworn to her service) whose territory it sits in probably had some seriously big plans with that last one. Would be right up her alley, knowing how she liked to build power bases and allies to try and get first introductions/good first impressions.
Heh, it's funny you mention the Four Belfries since I've had a lot of lore theories/scripts that tried to reckon with them but I couldn't quite put everything together. The furthest I've come along is piecing that it might have been used on the Night of the Black Knives because it would have allowed Ranni easy access to snatch the Rune of Death from Maliketh and you find one of the magic imp keys in Sellia, which is heavily implied to be the home of the Black Knife Assassins. Though I admit I hadn't really considered Rennala's role in the Four Belfries, since she almost certainly was the one who had them built so close to the Carian Manor; it definitely seems like an avenue worth reopening!
@@garrulousgoldmask I'd be interested in seeing a video on it. As said, it's pretty untapped potential, too. Rennalla's role in the whole thing by proxy of her commissioning the building of the installation in raises good questions about her own role in the Night of the Black Knives conspiracy. Could she be a thus far undiscovered co-operator or a facilitator? She did care for Ranni very dearly. Though I can also see it being a part of her political maneuverings with the chapel of anticipation and all that. And to keep contact with the Nox (probably also made the Sellians very happy), as well as Nokron being where the finger slaying blade was kept. Did she on purpose have it designed to aid Ranni? Is it a happy coincidence? Or perhaps: a contingency plan. In the event peace somehow dissolved, I could totally see Rennalla being savvy enough to foresee the need for a contingency plan to oust Marika/give her pause to halt her territorial aggression. The Rune of Death would make for a very heavy bargaining chip, or a weapon of last resort to get her to back off. Though, the portals could just as well have been for magical study. Farum Azula and Raya Lucaria both have one thing in common. They are stuck in a certain time of day. Farum Azula in day, Raya Lucaria in night, with Rennalla's moon still to this day looming down upon the academy. Considering how deep the Four Belfries were in her territory, she obviously wanted it to be kept very secured. It still has the spirits of trolls guarding it to this day, to boot. So it must have been a very important project to warrant its location and still lingering security measures. I suppose it depends a lot on when the facility was built. And how much Rennalla actually knew/what lengths she was willing to go to. Also, I find it an odd coincidence there just so happens to be a caravan transporting a Carrian knight's sword away from the Four Belfries. How'd it get there? If all the knights were reported to have died facing Radagon, then how did one of their swords end up over there? Did that battle happen around there, meaning the Four Belfries were marked as a priority target? If so, perhaps the whole reason Marika sent her second host to invade led by herself as Radagon was Rennalla getting dangerously close to gaining access to The Rune of Death, marking her as an extinction level threat to the Golden Order. After repelling Marika's first army, it would be logical that a savvy ruler like Rennalla would begin looking for alternative means of defense/a deterrent. I'm just hurling darts here. Definitely a lot to this whole mystery, and my opinion is that the chronology of events is kinda key to unlocking the riddle/intent/speculative groundwork to walk on. Meaning when were the Four Belfries built is a critical piece of the puzzle.
This is just speculation on my part, but I think it’s possible that the black flames on iji was an oversight something similar happened with the corpse wax cutter aow
What happened with the corpse wax cutter aow? I must have missed that! And to clarify, are you saying that you think that adding the black flame in was an oversight? Or that Iji not having the black flame in 1.0 was the oversight?
I invite you to use the black knife of the assassins on any Carian Troll (whoch Iji was). Hitem with the skill Blade of death and you'll see the same black flame effect on them.
@@garrulousgoldmask pretty much it’s a weapon that you get from the black blade kindred and it does a big destined death vacuum slice but instead of doing the destined death effect it does the black flame one instead so I believe that they accidentally use the wrong visual effect on iji as well
Elden Rings lore is kind of weird imo. Some of it is very straightforward like in regards to the demigods and how they ended where they are in the game. Yet, at the same time you have characters like Marika, who is arguably the most important figure to the lore, yet we barely know anything about her or her reasons for shattering the Elden Ring. Hopefully the DLC can clear things up but I feel like we're only going to be left with more questions than answers by the end.
My main gripe with the game is that your character is very limited when it comes to the choices they can make regarding the story. There should be a way to visit those (otherwise locked) areas in Liurnia without having to play pretend with Ranni for example (a golden order character has no reason to even address Ranni, them doing her quest would be immersion breaking to say the least)
We've been with Elden Ring for so long now and discovered so much that we've gotten used to all of its bullshit and imperfections. I remember my immeasurable disappointment when I realised how many copy and paste or bare bones item descriptions there were in a world just begging for the extra attention.
About the important story telling items (healing order and helphans stepple) i also dont like how fromsoft handled that in this game, to often i fight a boss with a weapon in his hand and i dont get that weapon from that enemy, no i get it from some random dude who doesnt even wear the weapon... or weapons like golden order sword are just with a misbegotten without a real explaination...
My biggest gripe is that a lot of characters seem to have tragic endings just for the sake of being tragic. Sellen’s ending in particular is really bad. You go on a whole quest and uncover an incredible secret of glintstone, and then at the end she just transforms into a graven mass with no explanation. Other characters say that she is evil so I guess the implication is she was being evil offscreen and it backfired somehow. Either way it’s really random.
Souls Veterans: "First time?" But on the plus side, at least some quests have happy endings. Nepheli (and by extension the great Kenneth Haight), Boc, and Rya to name a few.
One grievance I have always had is that it is maddeningly unclear who the player character is and how they got to the chapel of anticipation. Especially as a beginning player, it makes basically no sense whatsoever, and is quite obviously the sort of thing that your character would know. Even if they DON'T know these things, they would know that they don't know them, but as it stands it all feels incredibly ambiguous in an unfun way.
I can't remember where I read/eard but the code in game is supposed to be for the destined death flames on iji but for some reason the black flames appear instead and they can't fix it for some reason. Take with generous amount of salt
Re the black flame effect on Iji: if you use the black knife skill Blade of Death on any Carian Troll, you will get the same black flame effect. The black flame is just drained of its red color after Maliketh defeated the GEQ. My gripe is kinda the same as yours: I never got a clear grasp on the timeline. Rogier even contradicts himself regarding the time of the shattering. Within the same dialog even. I don't know if it's just meant to be confusing. We know "time is convoluted" and all that. And if the lands between represent Marika's inner world and psyche, I can kinda understand why everything is vague if she suffered some.kind of a breakdown or memory loss...
I think it's because the actual physical shattering of the elden ring and the Shattering war are two different events that take place at different points in time. The war didn't take place until a while AFTER the elden ring was shattered, as the narrator for the intro says
There definitely was an Interregnum between the shattering of the Elden Ring and the Shattering War. And we catch glimpses of that period with Morgott's "willful traitors" speech. Having all these demigods jockeying for power in an uneasy alliance is absolutely stacked with narrative possibilities, I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually becomes the basis for an HBO adaptation.
@garrulousgoldmask Agreed! I think Succession on HBO has a lot of similarities with Elden Ring. Logan Roy as Marika ready to sacrifice his children if they fail to be aught at all. I guess they both draw on Shakespear with elements of Jungian psychology, Eastern theology, alchemy, occultism and esotericism. Although Jung definitely was inspired by these concepts himself. Marika may very well be the devouring mother archetype and Logan is definitely a devouring father!
Oh man, Succession was such an amazing show! And there are some great parallels to Elden Ring too (I hadn't thought of the devouring father with Logan Roy and Marika, but now I can't unsee it!) I might have to revive the Succession-style intro vid for Elden Ring I scrapped a while back 😅 I also hadn't thought of viewing Succession through a Jungian/esoteric lens; I could always use another reason for a rewatch! 😅
I agree with the grievances about the lore changes, but anything else i disagree a bit. I my opinion elden Ring lore must the treated as myths, and like some of the norse or greek mythology, is will never be 100% clear and some stuff will be open to interpretation. Our character is basically walking the path of writing/becoming a legends, and as in real world, history sometimes gets written from the perspective of the winner instead of just stating facts. I can think of the bible as an example, there's so many "plot holes" and parts that do not make sense, mentions of other deities and events that we know do not make sense in reality because they're myths attempting to explain stuff throught the perspective of people who didn't knew better or that wanted to push certain beliefs. Of course it would be nice to have a 100% clear and canon lore, but i think the most interesting and fun part of the world building of elden ring is being able to be open to interpretation, that people can believe different things based on that they encounter because it mimics the complexity of how myths and beliefs work irl.
I think fromsoft got lucky with elden ring with how much people put up with its convoluted and confusing story. I don't know really what's about elden ring that makes people fill in the gaps themselves and keep on speculating years after the game release. If the dark souls story was this complicated and lacking major cohesiveness, fromsoft would never be able to take off. Even Bloodborne would be straight-up avant garde if its story was this hidden and mysterious, I don't think it will able to hit the mainstream like it did. Also in the future if fromsoft keep this form of story-telling it will shoot itself in the foot, ER is an exception.
That's really funny because I think a lot of background elements in Elden Ring are a lot more direct than Dark Souls. Also, people are still coming to new conclusions about Dark Souls lore over 10 years later, the vagueness is a selling point, not a problem.
I agree that the vagueness is a selling point I'm not against that, however in dark souls there's at least a clear timeline even if not detailed or straight-forward. There's also clear motivations like Gwyn's and the age of fire. In ER, we don't even know the camps that are at war or why it happened or the scale of it or when. It's just vague for the sake of being vague. There are characters who lived throughout these events and no one seems to acknowledge it or give you even a hint for you to form a cohesive understanding. Like you said basically everything about ER is pure speculation and fan theory. I think they went too far with the mystery, the very little that was given is not enough to form a satisfying story.@@Fullmetalnyuu0
The timeline doesn't need to be explained. The lore of Elden Ring is meant to feel like a whole mythology depicting the events of a world inhabited by a pantheon of gods. In the same way you can't really decipher a clear timeline in, say, Norse mythology. I don't think that takes away from those stories, or Elden Ring's. In fact, it feels mysterious and otherworldly in a perfect way.
I understand what you mean, but i liked the storytelling way more like fromsoft did in dark souls... i didnt understand everything, but i understand every bosses emotions, values and why i have to kill him... 3 things i really cant say about elden ring, often i just face a boss and dont know anything about him
0:44 My guy you’re overthinking so many it’s ridiculous especially this one. Gideon wasn’t talking about Marika’s reasons for shattering the Elden Ring was because of Miquella’s kidnapping. You’re removing context to the dialogue. “So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form. Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story...” This is him recalling a rumor and acknowledging he the rumors was actually true. “Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified... Ah, my apologies. Lost myself, for a moment there.” The this is him talking to himself, separate from the previous discussion. He is just acknowledging that if the rumor he heard about Miquella is true then the rumors he heard Marika is true. They aren’t connected he’s just saying stuff he said could be true nothing more. The problem is that you have is that you’re over complicating things that aren’t that complicated.
This a classic problem that every Lore person gets when heavily speculative to every minute detail whether it makes sense or not. I would honestly just go back to drawing board cuz yah spiraling. Most of these lore complaints are easily surmised simple context clues, like my guy? You’re questioning why a ghost in a doll can still be in the Land Between where natural death is not a concept (This isn’t speculation, this literal fact btw). Come on man.😅
😭 this is such just nitpicking, u simply don’t like fromsofts story telling. It went from you not liking things being convoluted to you complaining about item descriptions to you complaining about them changing the lore in their own game??? 😭😭
That's weird. He said that he loved From Software story telling in their previous games, and provided examples of how Elden Ring fell short from their previous games. Me thinks you are too personally attached to From Software and can't take even the most lukewarm of criticisms.
@@sgtpastry Elden ring is my least favorite fromsoft game, my comment was based off of what he said. If you read my comment i’m pointing out things that he said, how does that = me not understanding criticism. I simply don’t think the points he made make or break the storytelling, i can list criticisms that i feel like are actually warranted about the games lore. Don’t try nd talk all high to me😭 idc about this game company that much
@@k2geekd nice i am not alone... i love dark souls (all3 of them), i like bloodborne, sekiro is ok, but elden ring just didnt gave me that feeling like other fromsoft games...
A video compiling the lore changes from 1.0 would be really cool!
1:12 I personally believe that miquella and godwyn did absolutely exist at the same time because he went on a crusade to try to give godwyn a “true death” and we see statues of the twins holding on to a third figure who some people believed to be marika but I think it is actually godwyn because the hair is not braided in the way that we traditionally see marika and flows freely like godwyn’s hair that we see in the intro
I don't disagree! And for the reasons you detailed. My grievance is really with our moon wife not telling us even though she knew about Miquella and Godwyn.
Glad to see another video by you! To me, the omission of the Sun in a game where the Moon and stars are heavily focused on leads me to think it's as important as the Elden Ring perhaps.
There was a Jesuit scholar in the 17th century called Anasthasius Kircher who was praised for his erudition. Unlike Orthodox Christianity, which believed the Earth to be at the center of the cosmos, having it's own generative powers like a womb, Kircher thought differently.
He believed the planets revolved around the Sun, and that it was a roiling mass of fire that had various properties. His idea was that the sun's rays carried liquid fire to fertilize the Earth with its energy.
He used an analogy to explain the sun's fires having different properties, comparing it to a Crucible, where metals are melted and blended, with the fumes being dispersed having varied properties.
My thinking so far is that the Crucible in Elden Ring drew its powers from the Sun to give birth to all of the varied life. I believe the "ancient holy essence" spoken of in item descriptions is the Sun's powers, now usurped by the Golden Erdtree.
It's like a reverse Dark Souls situation where instead of Gwyn screwing over everyone for the Sun, Marika screwed the Sun instead. Gwyn is rolling around in his grave I bet.
Thank you so much! And that's a really fascinating historical parallel! I'll definitely have to dig into Kirchner.
I do like the idea of the Crucible deriving its powers from the sun; we even have the warming stone item description, which may hint at that: "It's said that the Erdtree was once as warm as the gentle sun, and would gradually heal all who bathed in its rays."
‘Twas 15~ years ago that I overheard Jerry Stiller’s “airing of grievances” bit on TV… I tucked the idiom away in some far-off pocket of the mind, hardly comprehending what a ‘grievance’ was, let alone how one would air them - the verbiage sounded cultured to my fledgling ears at the time, so I held fast onto it…
And so the years went by - and all throughout them I searched, longing for an opportunity to let loose my knowledge of this most obscure pop-culture reference, but as you might’ve guessed, nary such an opportunity arose… until today! At long last, the time’s come to dust off these olde neurons and proclaim that I indeed understood that reference, friend!
Poetic
This is basically why I prefer Dark Souls lore. A clear timeline, a fairly simple world, but emotionally very impactful in so many ways. ER is too abstract, full of whens and whats, but not whys and wherefores.
Also great use of the Cleric Beast OST when talking about Goldmask's disappointment with clerics gone mad from lust for power to have an absolute evil to fight lol
Fair enough. The main themes of Dark Souls are brilliant too. But Elden Ring's lore and world completely surpassed my expectations as we slowly pieced it together these last 2 years. I don't think there is ever gonna be a fantasy world I enjoy more tbh
Glad to know I'm not the only one; ER is excellent in many ways and I have gotten quite attached to the personal storylines of various NPCs, but the overarching story felt so vague, even when I actively tried to understand it during gameplay. The opening cinematic is probably a good example: in DS1, we learn of many of the key players, the history of the world, and the curse of undeath, zooming in on our own situation. Still much to learn, but the foundation was there. In ER, the opening cinematic just made me more confused than anything - mention of various events, the introductions of a bunch of characters, but very little understanding of how any of those were connected to each other and to the wider world.
I blame Karl Popper for making anyone think an ending so Socratic and Plato-coded could possibly be evil. >:/
Marika removing death from the Elden Ring is what caused so many of the downstream issues the Lands Between face, and why we can meet the participants of the Shattering war. I think the DLC is going to focus in on this point and finally make the game's story cohere. As for Iji's flames, I have seen one rationalization: the black flame is only red when it's actively killing, and since Iji is dead, it regresses to the weaker variant that the Godskins have. Is this justified anywhere? I have no clue
@@minerman60101 ehe
The lore just feels incomplete in it’s current state, I’m hoping the dlc will fill in the blanks.
To me Marika’s motivations have to be the biggest ??? Thing in Elden Ring. Like, she’s crucial to so much of the game and we have tons of dialogue of her doing spooky stuff (looking at you, Gideon) but we have no idea why. And I doubt this will be experienced in the dlc
I think that's alright, personally. Marika is, after all, a God. She's about as far removed from others as one can get, her motivations and schemes only known to her.
Heck, we probably know more about her other half, Radagon, and that feels intentional.
The entirety of the Shattering seems like such an incredibly bizarre event that it invites wild speculation, fueled by the absolute scraps of knowledge on Marika.
I guess I like the vibe there.
Makes for all sorts of interesting interpretations and theories, from a grief-stricken mother lashing out in anger, to a cunning manipulator who orchestrated the timeline of her age in order to destroy an order she came to despise, to the Shattering being a gamble to force the Greater Will into appearing out of desperation, etc.
Although I do also hope we'll get more of a clue in the DLC. The speculation surrounds Miquella, Godwyn and the Haligtree, so, I imagine there would be space there to clarify the exact relationship of Miquella's order with Marika's, thus fleshing both out.
Well if honeymoon lasts a thousand years then at least two thousand years have passed.
I don't mind if you make a video about the comparison changes of every version. I would love to watch it
I thought the Helphen Steeple’s placement was quite justified.
Sure, it was only accessible after meeting many of the Tibia Mariners… but, specifically, a tibia mariner in the Mountaintops. There’s incredible detail in the Mountaintops to set it apart from the rest of the Lands - that, it is a land close to spirits. The worlds between Spirits and physical becomes blurred once reached the mountains, as climbing the world’s heights would bring one closer to death. Spectral Trees, spectral animals, abundance of death-related items and bosses, Castle Sol, the Moons light is brighter here…all of these aspects leading to the realisation that it would probably make sense why a weapon of Helphen would be found amongst a Spirit enemy found amongst a half-spirit land. Sidenote: the lore of the Helphen is near-non-existent, so I thought the obscurity of the Helphen steeple’s placement was apt in a way. Ultimately, I disagree with the second grievance *personally* but I whole-heartedly agree with the placement of Orderhealing lol like why tf is it there😂
Also as for your 3rd Grievance. I think them REMOVING details such as: Miquella being successor, Carians helping Miquella, Beast intelligence granted by GW, Trinas quest line blatantly revealing Miquella’s alterego. ‘Removal’ of all of these things are justified, in my opinion, in the sense that they explicitly detail revelations of the world in a way I think Fromsoft and Miyazaki don’t typically do. All details of context of things mentioned above can already be found within the game currently to support these, previously 1.00, explicit lore canonisation, just in a less obvious way.
Staying on topic of 3rd grievance. I think the REMOVAL of lore data is fine, but I can definitely see how the CHANGING (e.g - maliketh blade colour) or ADDING (e.g - Iji death flame) of lore can prove as being discombobulating lol.
It is for this exact reason I try to stay away from any unused/cut-content, as it tends to ruin my enjoyment of the game
I had Miquella’s secret identity as St Trina spoiled to me through Dataminers, where the quest literally would explicitly say “St Trina, no, I meant Miquella”, instead of discovering this on my own through the abstract details of the basegame. It’s also good to stay away from this type of behind-the-scenes content as it may not be the dev’s intentions/ may be accidental, so they change, remove, or add
George RR Martin is guilty of rewriting complete scripts and concepts for ASOIAF, like his original intentions for Jaime Lannister to be king on the Iron throne (source: ruclips.net/video/evsnpnTJ5iA/видео.htmlfeature=shared), but he rewrites these details in order for it to fit more for the person he is at his respective age of writing the books. Imagine if fans were somehow able to “datamine”, in a similar sense, to see all of his original work that would vastly differ from what we have today, it would drive fans crazy into thinking crazy things that may not even be relevant anymore as GRRM deleted those concepts.
I see the same here, as the searching of 1.00 details and/or datamining of particularly Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring turned me off to their respective basegame lores for a while. I had to later accept that these datamining details as simply deleted-scenes lol
I 100% agree with your first take tho😂😂 playing Elden ring feels like a dream because I literally do not know how to picture most of the order of events in my head, in that sense lmao
(Note: I use GRRM as an example, not because he worked on Elden ring, but more that he and Miyazaki are coincidentally my favourite fantasy creators lol😅)
Very well said!
As for the order healing, it could have been carried there by D's twin and dropped to be collected by the scarab when he lost his armor maybe? This altercation between the golden order and the nox people kinda mirrors the church hunters vs the vilebloods. We even get a dialog similar to Alfred when he kills the queen from D's brother when he kills Fia. There's golden centipedes all around the scarab too. I don't think anything is ever placed anywhere haphazardly in these games. We just have to keep thinking and exploring more deeply.
@@steamedhamlet I feel so stupid now. you’re completely right😅
No you're super astute! I might be totally off. Probably am!
But the effort that's gone in to this game makes me believe nothing is arbitrary is all.
Thank you for watching and for leaving such a detailed comment with great points! You're right: having the Helphens's Steeple drop in the Mountaintops of the Giants with all those spirits thematically fits quite well. (And now that you mention it, I would if it would have been even better if we found it in the Forbidden Lands, considering the red light. Then again, that might be too obvious for FromSoft 😅)
Though my main criticism still stands: the Tibia Mariner should have been more of a unique and memorable boss encounter (Tibia Admiral?) considering the importance of the item he drops. (There's already a great example of FromSoft reusing a common boss enemy in a unique way in the Mountaintops of the Giants, with the Erdtree Avatar that can summon its own Mimic Tear.)
And I certainly understand why folks prefer to steer clear of cut content! Though what makes the 1.0 version so compelling is that these changes were made so late in development, they reveal that a lot of the details for the lore were still up in the air, even after the game discs were being printed.
It would be like if GRRM released The Winds of Winter (this is a hypothetical, so bear with me 😅) but he made significant revisions and edits between the printing of the dead tree versions and the ebook you can buy for Kindle, etc.
So I definitely think it makes sense for a Golden Order Fundamentalism spell to be placed near D's twin! In addition to all those great points you brought up, it is downstream of the Deeproot Depths, which reminds me of how the curse of immortality spread through the rejuvenating waters becoming stagnant and corrupted on Sekiro. (And the centipede was a symbol of ill omen/death in Japanese folklore!)
That said, it's still frustrating that the spell they chose was so tied up with Goldmask's ending and nothing in the quest has you explore that area. (The fact that you get half of Goldmask's signature T pose from one of the D twins does make me wonder if the Goldmask quest was somehow tied in at an earlier stage of development, but that's just speculation.)
And you're right: so many of the item and enemy placements are absolutely deliberate and purposeful. But then there are a couple that seem bizarre/haphazard (looking at you, Consecrated Snowfields!). So that can present a bit of a maddening dilemma when lorehunting: Do you try to go even deeper and uncover the significance (when it could just be nothing)? Or do you concede that you might be reading waaaay too much into it and just need to touch Grace, (and potentially miss out on a major revelation)? Basically, it's why I love/hate FromSoft 😅
I'd just like to note that I am strongly starting to think that time as a concept in the Lands Between seems to be somewhat broken. From my understanding, it's not just me who has come to this vibe/conclusion that there is something off with how time flows (or doesn't/works in general) in the Lands Between. It's also almost paradoxical how events can be both ancient history and almost feel like affairs of yesterday. It's also not restricted to the demigods or gods, but you also have people like Queen Rennalla and the Carrian royal family being a bit of an oddity seeing as they are both ancient yet so very feeble/feeling like a very young dynasty.
Even minor characters of less importance like Thops, who, per his own wording, had just "popped out for a bit" prior to the Raya Lucaria academy sealing spell being cast is still around healthy and fairly young. The academy sealed itself off after declaring it will take no part in the shattering, meaning it's been like this for a while. This means Thops would have been locked out for a long time...yet the guy is still a pretty spring chicken. Yet another example of how the passage of time is being very odd, as he certainly should be if not dead from aging, quite a crusty old bat. Despite being sympathetic and actually quite brilliant in his own way, he is not a mage of grand power able to cheat death by gaining long age from great forces or magical machinations. By all means, just about as regular of a fellow as you can have around the Lands Between. And yet still oddly safe from the ravages of time and hostile forces alike until our Tarnished meddles.
Furthermore, it also feels like different regions have differing workings of time, with only some individuals (usually related to the divine or having their own part to play in things ala quest npcs) able to do anything to alter their state of being (and usually only with a push or violence from the Tarnished) stuck in time. Most entities, NPCs, enemies, and the likes seem doomed to repeat endless cycles of being stuck in decay. Dispatch them, and they will just rise again as soon as the Tarnished sits down to rest at a found site of grace.
I can definitely see the appeal of that theory! That's certainly the impression I got for Farum Azula at least.
And you're right that sometimes seems a bit off about Thops. Though it is interesting that the Raya Lucarian robes say that the academy's sorcerers have "extended life," which could explain why he hasn't aged at all in the years (centuries?) since the Shattering.
@@garrulousgoldmask Unlikely that our good buddy Thops got to go on such a field trip, but it's also worth noting the Four Belfries which is in Raya Lucarian/former Carrian territory contains a portal that drops you off in... Farum Azula.
Considering what the potential implications of the Four Belfries/key locations is, it's amazing no lore channel seems to have so far gotten really interested in it. Gateway to Farum Azula, Nokron, and the chapel of flipping anticipation where the returning Tarnished pop up in after crossing the mists. A certain demoralised Queen (with dragons sworn to her service) whose territory it sits in probably had some seriously big plans with that last one. Would be right up her alley, knowing how she liked to build power bases and allies to try and get first introductions/good first impressions.
Heh, it's funny you mention the Four Belfries since I've had a lot of lore theories/scripts that tried to reckon with them but I couldn't quite put everything together. The furthest I've come along is piecing that it might have been used on the Night of the Black Knives because it would have allowed Ranni easy access to snatch the Rune of Death from Maliketh and you find one of the magic imp keys in Sellia, which is heavily implied to be the home of the Black Knife Assassins.
Though I admit I hadn't really considered Rennala's role in the Four Belfries, since she almost certainly was the one who had them built so close to the Carian Manor; it definitely seems like an avenue worth reopening!
@@garrulousgoldmask I'd be interested in seeing a video on it. As said, it's pretty untapped potential, too.
Rennalla's role in the whole thing by proxy of her commissioning the building of the installation in raises good questions about her own role in the Night of the Black Knives conspiracy. Could she be a thus far undiscovered co-operator or a facilitator? She did care for Ranni very dearly. Though I can also see it being a part of her political maneuverings with the chapel of anticipation and all that. And to keep contact with the Nox (probably also made the Sellians very happy), as well as Nokron being where the finger slaying blade was kept.
Did she on purpose have it designed to aid Ranni? Is it a happy coincidence? Or perhaps: a contingency plan. In the event peace somehow dissolved, I could totally see Rennalla being savvy enough to foresee the need for a contingency plan to oust Marika/give her pause to halt her territorial aggression. The Rune of Death would make for a very heavy bargaining chip, or a weapon of last resort to get her to back off.
Though, the portals could just as well have been for magical study. Farum Azula and Raya Lucaria both have one thing in common. They are stuck in a certain time of day. Farum Azula in day, Raya Lucaria in night, with Rennalla's moon still to this day looming down upon the academy.
Considering how deep the Four Belfries were in her territory, she obviously wanted it to be kept very secured. It still has the spirits of trolls guarding it to this day, to boot. So it must have been a very important project to warrant its location and still lingering security measures. I suppose it depends a lot on when the facility was built. And how much Rennalla actually knew/what lengths she was willing to go to.
Also, I find it an odd coincidence there just so happens to be a caravan transporting a Carrian knight's sword away from the Four Belfries. How'd it get there? If all the knights were reported to have died facing Radagon, then how did one of their swords end up over there? Did that battle happen around there, meaning the Four Belfries were marked as a priority target? If so, perhaps the whole reason Marika sent her second host to invade led by herself as Radagon was Rennalla getting dangerously close to gaining access to The Rune of Death, marking her as an extinction level threat to the Golden Order. After repelling Marika's first army, it would be logical that a savvy ruler like Rennalla would begin looking for alternative means of defense/a deterrent.
I'm just hurling darts here. Definitely a lot to this whole mystery, and my opinion is that the chronology of events is kinda key to unlocking the riddle/intent/speculative groundwork to walk on. Meaning when were the Four Belfries built is a critical piece of the puzzle.
This is just speculation on my part, but I think it’s possible that the black flames on iji was an oversight something similar happened with the corpse wax cutter aow
It’s VERY likely it’s just a glitch. I wouldn’t think to about it.
What happened with the corpse wax cutter aow? I must have missed that!
And to clarify, are you saying that you think that adding the black flame in was an oversight? Or that Iji not having the black flame in 1.0 was the oversight?
I invite you to use the black knife of the assassins on any Carian Troll (whoch Iji was). Hitem with the skill Blade of death and you'll see the same black flame effect on them.
@@garrulousgoldmask pretty much it’s a weapon that you get from the black blade kindred and it does a big destined death vacuum slice but instead of doing the destined death effect it does the black flame one instead so I believe that they accidentally use the wrong visual effect on iji as well
2:25 wait, WHAT?
I need a vid on this NOW
Elden Rings lore is kind of weird imo. Some of it is very straightforward like in regards to the demigods and how they ended where they are in the game. Yet, at the same time you have characters like Marika, who is arguably the most important figure to the lore, yet we barely know anything about her or her reasons for shattering the Elden Ring. Hopefully the DLC can clear things up but I feel like we're only going to be left with more questions than answers by the end.
My main gripe with the game is that your character is very limited when it comes to the choices they can make regarding the story.
There should be a way to visit those (otherwise locked) areas in Liurnia without having to play pretend with Ranni for example (a golden order character has no reason to even address Ranni, them doing her quest would be immersion breaking to say the least)
We've been with Elden Ring for so long now and discovered so much that we've gotten used to all of its bullshit and imperfections. I remember my immeasurable disappointment when I realised how many copy and paste or bare bones item descriptions there were in a world just begging for the extra attention.
Love this video but more on armored core 6 and alchemy I appreciate if you did also nice video
About the important story telling items (healing order and helphans stepple) i also dont like how fromsoft handled that in this game, to often i fight a boss with a weapon in his hand and i dont get that weapon from that enemy, no i get it from some random dude who doesnt even wear the weapon... or weapons like golden order sword are just with a misbegotten without a real explaination...
Damn if I made this video I would have aired out a LOT more grievances than this
have faith, the doc will clear things up it always has
My biggest gripe is that a lot of characters seem to have tragic endings just for the sake of being tragic. Sellen’s ending in particular is really bad. You go on a whole quest and uncover an incredible secret of glintstone, and then at the end she just transforms into a graven mass with no explanation. Other characters say that she is evil so I guess the implication is she was being evil offscreen and it backfired somehow. Either way it’s really random.
I'm pretty sure that was a result of glimpsing into the primeval current
@@mannmann314yes
Souls Veterans: "First time?"
But on the plus side, at least some quests have happy endings. Nepheli (and by extension the great Kenneth Haight), Boc, and Rya to name a few.
One grievance I have always had is that it is maddeningly unclear who the player character is and how they got to the chapel of anticipation. Especially as a beginning player, it makes basically no sense whatsoever, and is quite obviously the sort of thing that your character would know. Even if they DON'T know these things, they would know that they don't know them, but as it stands it all feels incredibly ambiguous in an unfun way.
I can't remember where I read/eard but the code in game is supposed to be for the destined death flames on iji but for some reason the black flames appear instead and they can't fix it for some reason. Take with generous amount of salt
Re the black flame effect on Iji: if you use the black knife skill Blade of Death on any Carian Troll, you will get the same black flame effect. The black flame is just drained of its red color after Maliketh defeated the GEQ.
My gripe is kinda the same as yours: I never got a clear grasp on the timeline. Rogier even contradicts himself regarding the time of the shattering. Within the same dialog even. I don't know if it's just meant to be confusing. We know "time is convoluted" and all that. And if the lands between represent Marika's inner world and psyche, I can kinda understand why everything is vague if she suffered some.kind of a breakdown or memory loss...
I think it's because the actual physical shattering of the elden ring and the Shattering war are two different events that take place at different points in time. The war didn't take place until a while AFTER the elden ring was shattered, as the narrator for the intro says
There definitely was an Interregnum between the shattering of the Elden Ring and the Shattering War. And we catch glimpses of that period with Morgott's "willful traitors" speech. Having all these demigods jockeying for power in an uneasy alliance is absolutely stacked with narrative possibilities, I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually becomes the basis for an HBO adaptation.
@garrulousgoldmask Agreed! I think Succession on HBO has a lot of similarities with Elden Ring. Logan Roy as Marika ready to sacrifice his children if they fail to be aught at all. I guess they both draw on Shakespear with elements of Jungian psychology, Eastern theology, alchemy, occultism and esotericism. Although Jung definitely was inspired by these concepts himself.
Marika may very well be the devouring mother archetype and Logan is definitely a devouring father!
Oh man, Succession was such an amazing show! And there are some great parallels to Elden Ring too (I hadn't thought of the devouring father with Logan Roy and Marika, but now I can't unsee it!) I might have to revive the Succession-style intro vid for Elden Ring I scrapped a while back 😅
I also hadn't thought of viewing Succession through a Jungian/esoteric lens; I could always use another reason for a rewatch! 😅
I agree with the grievances about the lore changes, but anything else i disagree a bit. I my opinion elden Ring lore must the treated as myths, and like some of the norse or greek mythology, is will never be 100% clear and some stuff will be open to interpretation. Our character is basically walking the path of writing/becoming a legends, and as in real world, history sometimes gets written from the perspective of the winner instead of just stating facts. I can think of the bible as an example, there's so many "plot holes" and parts that do not make sense, mentions of other deities and events that we know do not make sense in reality because they're myths attempting to explain stuff throught the perspective of people who didn't knew better or that wanted to push certain beliefs.
Of course it would be nice to have a 100% clear and canon lore, but i think the most interesting and fun part of the world building of elden ring is being able to be open to interpretation, that people can believe different things based on that they encounter because it mimics the complexity of how myths and beliefs work irl.
I think fromsoft got lucky with elden ring with how much people put up with its convoluted and confusing story. I don't know really what's about elden ring that makes people fill in the gaps themselves and keep on speculating years after the game release. If the dark souls story was this complicated and lacking major cohesiveness, fromsoft would never be able to take off. Even Bloodborne would be straight-up avant garde if its story was this hidden and mysterious, I don't think it will able to hit the mainstream like it did. Also in the future if fromsoft keep this form of story-telling it will shoot itself in the foot, ER is an exception.
That's really funny because I think a lot of background elements in Elden Ring are a lot more direct than Dark Souls. Also, people are still coming to new conclusions about Dark Souls lore over 10 years later, the vagueness is a selling point, not a problem.
I agree that the vagueness is a selling point I'm not against that, however in dark souls there's at least a clear timeline even if not detailed or straight-forward. There's also clear motivations like Gwyn's and the age of fire. In ER, we don't even know the camps that are at war or why it happened or the scale of it or when. It's just vague for the sake of being vague. There are characters who lived throughout these events and no one seems to acknowledge it or give you even a hint for you to form a cohesive understanding. Like you said basically everything about ER is pure speculation and fan theory. I think they went too far with the mystery, the very little that was given is not enough to form a satisfying story.@@Fullmetalnyuu0
I don’t think Gideon can be trusted regarding his words about Miquella.
And to be fair, Gideon himself said it was speculation.
2:25 EXPLAIN YOURSELF!
I'm interested to hear his perspective, but I highly, highly doubt that's supposed to be miquella
Bro i do whats asked of me by women who call me madienless and I have accord with all the time and cant tell you why Trump tweeted some dumbshit.
The timeline doesn't need to be explained. The lore of Elden Ring is meant to feel like a whole mythology depicting the events of a world inhabited by a pantheon of gods. In the same way you can't really decipher a clear timeline in, say, Norse mythology. I don't think that takes away from those stories, or Elden Ring's. In fact, it feels mysterious and otherworldly in a perfect way.
I understand what you mean, but i liked the storytelling way more like fromsoft did in dark souls... i didnt understand everything, but i understand every bosses emotions, values and why i have to kill him... 3 things i really cant say about elden ring, often i just face a boss and dont know anything about him
TIME BEING CONVOLUTED IS THE POINT! Order is BROKEN. TIME DOESN'T FLOW PROPERLY! I thought you were a lore channel! (I Die)
Read some Dark Tower books
0:44 My guy you’re overthinking so many it’s ridiculous especially this one. Gideon wasn’t talking about Marika’s reasons for shattering the Elden Ring was because of Miquella’s kidnapping. You’re removing context to the dialogue.
“So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree,
but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form.
Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story...” This is him recalling a rumor and acknowledging he the rumors was actually true.
“Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified... Ah, my apologies. Lost myself, for a moment there.”
The this is him talking to himself, separate from the previous discussion. He is just acknowledging that if the rumor he heard about Miquella is true then the rumors he heard Marika is true. They aren’t connected he’s just saying stuff he said could be true nothing more. The problem is that you have is that you’re over complicating things that aren’t that complicated.
This a classic problem that every Lore person gets when heavily speculative to every minute detail whether it makes sense or not. I would honestly just go back to drawing board cuz yah spiraling. Most of these lore complaints are easily surmised simple context clues, like my guy? You’re questioning why a ghost in a doll can still be in the Land Between where natural death is not a concept (This isn’t speculation, this literal fact btw). Come on man.😅
😭 this is such just nitpicking, u simply don’t like fromsofts story telling. It went from you not liking things being convoluted to you complaining about item descriptions to you complaining about them changing the lore in their own game??? 😭😭
That's weird. He said that he loved From Software story telling in their previous games, and provided examples of how Elden Ring fell short from their previous games. Me thinks you are too personally attached to From Software and can't take even the most lukewarm of criticisms.
@@sgtpastry Elden ring is my least favorite fromsoft game, my comment was based off of what he said. If you read my comment i’m pointing out things that he said, how does that = me not understanding criticism. I simply don’t think the points he made make or break the storytelling, i can list criticisms that i feel like are actually warranted about the games lore. Don’t try nd talk all high to me😭 idc about this game company that much
@@k2geekd nice i am not alone... i love dark souls (all3 of them), i like bloodborne, sekiro is ok, but elden ring just didnt gave me that feeling like other fromsoft games...