Best saddle position for Time Trial gains?
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
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About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit....
About the RCA: roadcyclingaca...
Where should you put the saddle on a time trial bike? Many cyclists will slam it forward, thinking that produces the most speed and power, but is that actually the right move? Expert bike fitter Neill Stanbury explains.
#cycling #timetrial @saddle
This is really interesting, especially since it goes against just about everything I’ve been taught for Ironman. Ie..Forward saddle, rearward cleats to disengage the calves, get low my rolling/rotating forward, be quad dominant and stomp on the pedals to save you hamstrings and calves for the run, don’t pedal in circles, lower your cadence, watts saved by being lower/aero is more important than generating watts etc… I love my position and I’m very comfortable on the bike, but this video really makes me wonder.
I think Neill has just confirmed/reaffirmed everything I suspected I was getting wrong last season when I took up the IP on the track. I have a pursuit frame that, like he says of TT bikes, naturally positions me forward of my normal fit. And every time I wound it up in the IP, I would feel myself fighting my hips trying to move back, and sometimes almost off the saddle. I know Neill is speaking to longer efforts, but even in the '5 minute' effort, I knew something wasn't right.
Does your normal set up have your saddle nose more than 5cm behind the BB? 5cm is the UCI limit (unless you keep your extensions
Thanks for this. Even as a fitter with only a couple of years experience, the amount of people who come for a fit with their saddle slammed forward saying those exact words, "but I can put bigger numbers out", is scary! Trying to explain why the smart Pro rider misses a few turns in a typical break in order to "save" power, is the easiest way to drive the message home!!
Another video full of accurate and very useful information. Thanks chaps.
Neil spreading wisdom... Just awesome!
I'm not a competitive rider, but I ride a variety of bikes, including one that puts me 350-400mm behind BB. Very comfy on long rides, but allows me to apply power when needed.
I love the content !! Also the paradox that the Seka bike in the background has the seat shoved all the way forward :D :D :D (well ... it has a setback seatpost, so ... still funny !)
It's a crit bike. :P It's for relatively short races...
That's not really far forward. It seems pretty standard. Seems to have a 73ish angle at the seat tube. If you want to see what they mean grab a bike off Google with a 0mm setback post and the seat all the way forward.
Neill is the master! Have learned so much. Thank you!
Great video! I would like to see some fit principles when using roadbike with clip on tri bars (like me as a poor person do).
Love these videos, really detailed and valuable info in each and every one of them, keep up the good work!!
Love these videos. I actually experienced something similar on my road bike. I felt massively powerful when going from 11-15 o'clock on the pedal stroke, and thought it was ideal because I was light on the hands and was not falling forward; however, I later realized that my setback was too far since my foot lost control at 17 o'clock and my left hip dropped to reach the bottom of the pedal stroke, resulting in left leg IT-band pain and some lower back pain. Paying attention to what happens before and after the bottom of the pedal stroke really is key.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Great insight. I was wondering what your thoughts are on the Ironman positions of the elite pro's? Their hips are almost completely above the pedals!
Would love to see Neil chat about current pro positions for TTs ( I know he did one for road bikes already)... you definitely see them quite far forward
You guys are doing a great job!
Spreading so much valuable knowledge.
Thank you. I’m grateful!!!
Also, my personal practice confirms what Neilll is saying. My triathletes after a fitting session done with this approach, do finish bike portion far more relaxed.
Terrific explanation. Very clear and articulate.
Especially in triathlon you see a lot of positions with crazy steep (effective) seat angles. Obviously things are a bit different in UCI TT events due to rules, but it is an interesting question, what would be the optimal value or range for the effective seat angle if the rules wouldn't limit the bike setup / position.
Such great info and everything makes sense...I need to ship Neill to the US so I can get a real fit!
So, we're getting back to an "effective seat angle"? So which angle works the best? Anytime you move the seat, relative to the BB, isn't this changing? Of course, seat tube angle changes this as the seat rail adjustment would only account for a degree of angle (+ or -). Most road bikes have seat tube angles of 74 degrees, and most TT bikes are 78+ degrees.
Where is the correct position to sit on the saddle in the aero position? I see a lot of riders sitting on the tip of their saddle and I noticed that I do the same. Would it be better to move the saddle more forward and sit on the back?
So here's my question. I run a TT specific saddle on my TT bike, and normal saddle on my road bike. If I can't compare them with a definitive number, how could I do it? I use an ISM saddle on the TT and am 52mm behind the BB. My PRO Stealth road saddle is 60mm behind. But I'm sure I sit on them differently. I think I'm using my posterior chain well, but after I watch these videos I swear my brain explodes with questions and a wish I lived nearby to get a fit by you.
I also have both saddles (ISM didn't work for me though), so I can relate to what youre talking about. To compare how you sit on different saddles/bikes, you can shoot a video on trainer and try to estimate the effective seat angle you're at, i.e., basically draw a line from bottom bracket to where your sit bones are. There are very easy-to-use and free angle meter apps for iphone/android where you can draw lines and angles on top of photos.
Very good information here! ❤
Great videos! Would the sq labs 612 saddle be a good choice for mtb and if so do you recommend the active or regular model? Thanks.
I'm guilty. I've done that on my normal bike recently and I started cramping from the knee to the hips on both legs, it was awful😭😭😭
Any idea when Cam will be back on his channel i really miss his content......and of course enjoy yours too Neil
I’ll be back in May Dave. Thanks for asking 👍
@@roadcyclingacademy Really looking forward to it Cam
Another informative Video from RCA. Keep up the great work.
What if the technology arrives, which allows the rider to adjust saddle height, saddle shift , and cockpit drop/rise, while on the ride, would that address the concerns you just highlighted?.
Ive found I have solid muscles engagement but my hip flexors fatigue really quickly - Im not sure which way to go haha
Agreed but I’m still faster forward. I need to train with the saddle back and work on my hamstrings. I’m not a runner.
4:53 I’m impressed that TT athlete has not broken his back yet. What is that position? Geez
I have a question...I saw this video a while back and agreed with everything and still do. I made it a point to make sure i feel that full pedal rotation on my roadbike. I now purchased a TT bike and have been experimenting with saddle positions. Guess which has been my favorite so far? Thats right, slammed forward. It just feels natural to me, and it did on my road bike as well, which happens to be designed after a TT bike, I should mention. SOOOoooo, here is the question: can it be that some people are just naturally fit to sit in that forward position and it works for them, even though it is not recommended? I am using my bike for time sprints, so i think I will try leaving it rhis way and see how it goes....
It's because this guy is always in upright position so he sets the saddle backwards. While tt bikes are made to spend most of your time on aero bars so we move our seats forwards. He's full of poo poo bs. Of course forwards is Mathmaticically better as less energy is wasted when you take out weird angles out the equation
I just put my seat back yesterday, i guess im the chosen one😂
I slammed my seat all the way forward and suffered knee pains for weeks.
how does it feel elsewhere (saddle, handlebars) of sitting further forward. l run my saddle forward cause my torso is quite short (got very long arms tho)
I would say, run the seat back further over the rear wheel and then stretch as far forward as possible is THE best bike position possible. Unfortunately, not a concept ever perfected
Haha yes, I only do short TT in Bathurst. Slam and spin it is 🤣
He says if you have correct saddle position on TT bike you should feel similar as your road bike. Sit on your road bike as you normally ride, then lean forward as on TT bike, you will not feel the same at all, not even similar.
That explains a lot... Jason Momoa is a tri-athlete.
Too much weight on the front will also make the bike handle like shite
Good point, thanks for sharing on the thread
Hi, can you please be a little more specific about your comment? I have my saddle slammed all of the way forward and the bike is riding and steering great to me, and that is while I am on the skis, at that! How is it better if the saddle is not forward? Thanks....
TopGanna’ s fit is wrong, ok 🙈😂
I usually very much appreciate your in depth knowledge and explaining... but in this case you are wrong for sure!!! Look at all riders who have dominated the sport: Fabian Cancellara,Tony Martin, Tom Dumoulin, Primoz Roglic, Fillipo Ganna, Jonas Vingegaard, Tadej Pogacar, Remco Evenepoel aso - they have won every single important TT in at least the last 15 years (and not only short ones but also the Hour Record!), and every one of them - without one single exception - is sitting far far more forward than you recommend here. It is simply impossible that they have been so successful if all of them are so wrong in the most basic aspect. The other riders also are no slouches and can produce decent power numbers - so one of them using your superior position clearly would have beaten them... but it has not happened - never!
...and btw, it's the same with triathletes: Frodeno, Kienle, Wurf and many more... all wrong?
@@fiddleronthebike This video is for the average joes, not freaks of nature with a genetically gifted body and access to custom bikes and fysios to massage their bodies.
@@ShadowzKiller please explain to me why and how what works for ALL good TT riders in the world and makes them faster is wrong for all others? That simply doesn’t make any sense - and btw, among them there are extreme variations of body types, small riders (Remco, Jonas); strong riders with much muscles (Ganna); slim and long ones (Frodeno), long or short legs, long or short torsos, heavy powerhouses or tiny riders with almost child-like bodies - no matter, if they are fast, they ride EXACTLY the way what is described to be wrong in this video. So, simple conclusion: he is wrong in this case