THE PACIFIC 1X9 | Okinawa | Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2023
- Caught up on the whole season on Patreon in full length watch alongs.
Here: / diegesischad
Arianna and Maple's first time watching Tom Hank's The Pacific in a reaction.
Maple's Links: msha.ke/mapledivine
#Reaction #ThePacific #HideTomHanks 
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No, it's not unnecessary to depict the reality of the war. Your reactions show exactly why it is necessary. Far too often Hollywood romanticizes war instead of showing the awful truth. It's important we keep the reality of war more in the forefront so just maybe people will be a little more hesitant to immediately view it as a solution for conflict. It would be a disrespectful disservice to the men who suffered in the Pacific to sugar coat and glamorize their experience just because audiences feel uncomfortable with being confronted by the truth IMO.
Exactly. This series is not meant to be fun or easy to watch
Totally agree. I thought their reactions demonstrated exactly why we need the Pacific particularly with the heating up relations again in the Pacific.
NAIL MEET HAMMER.
You hit it right on the head !
THIS is what Pacific is About!
So glad they made this
yeah, there were far more horrific things they did to civilians... this isn't even 20% of it. example, they bayonetted a womans baby and flung it away off the bayonet. Unit 731 that did biological and chemical weapons tests on live subjects, dissected them alive with no anesthetics to get the "most accurate results". oh and the unit was never tried for war crimes.
THIS IS HISTORY. Marines, Solders, Sailors and Airmen went through this. The directors did not add anything in that was not experienced by the men that the story is about. If you don't show it on-screen, the audience won't know it happened. In a day and age when people say that history has been rewritten to take out some of the ugly truths, now people are complaining the whole truth is being told. This is what the men saw and went through. The fighting in the Pacific was a lot different than in Europe. That's why comparing B.o.B. to this is not an accurate thing to do. They were both extremely tough and extremely nasty fighting but different. My heart and prayers go out to all my Marine brothers and sisters that went before me and that came after me.
In the actual events, according to Eugene Sledge’s book, he went to find a corpsman for the old woman, but a younger marine then found and executed her. The real events were FAR darker, the show is tame by comparison. I was stunned, and I’m an AFG vet. There’s a story Sledge tells about digging a foxhole on Okinawa and accidentally digging into the chest cavity of a decomposing buried Japanese soldier. The way he described it was nauseating, and I’ve seen plenty of bodies.
Edit: the honor they’re paying is by accurately(relatively) retelling the events. War is not glorious. War is not nice, or proud, or clean. It may seem unnecessary, but THIS is what these men, and many millions afterward went through. The 3 seconds that a camera holds on a gory scene is what thousands of these men saw every night for the rest of their lives. Band of brothers is good, but it’s a churched up “nice” version of war. It’s almost cartoonish in how polite it is. The pacific does a way better job of showing the duality, brutality, and insanity of war. If you feel sick watching it, it’s just right. No one should be able to see combat and feel ok.
The book is nightmare fuel, and it really was just a simple re-telling of Sledges experiences. I dont know if these girls would really rather read it lool
The book, along with Helmet for my pillow, are modern masterpieces.
Both Sledge and Leckie’s books are on audible and read in their entirety by the actors from the show.
Both Sledge and Leckie’s books are on audible and read in their entirety by the actors from the show.
I almost got to meet Sledge in 1995 when stationed in Okinawa. He was part of tour coming through as 50th anniversary. But USAF decided I needed to be in Korea for a month to hold back the commie hoards. C’est la vie.
Ladies, I would be remiss as a veteran and a Pacific War historian if I didn’t tender this comment on your end-of-show commentary on this episode. You made very valid and salient points concerning your take on the absolute graphic depiction - even over the top, of the Battle for Okinawa. As the series showed so vividly, the Japanese fought differently than most nations, especially as the Allies began to close in on the Japanese homelands. They became even more fanatical and suicidal at this point. The fact is, the Battle for Okinawa was the absolute worst hellish nightmare ever encountered by US forces during the war. This is why “The Pacific” is a hard watch. It was not gratuitous, and they spared you from the worst. Your response is what the producers intended. The Pacific was no BoB.
Well said, I don’t even think they showed half of the brutality of the Japanese during WWII.
this battle also had the worst Kamikazi attack that US Navy encountered.
I agree, there is no depicting OKINAWA without showing this type of material. This is what happened. I am sorry it is hard to watch. Luckily you have been spared 99% of the brutality.
@@Silky808 no, they didn't show the worst
Totally agree, if we read about the Pacific theater in WW2, it s whole different level of brutality, not to mention the IJA was doing that before the US entered the war
"Could there have been a better way to tell the story?"
No. War is hell. You cannot sanitize what happened. As many others have said, the book takes it even further into detail. I don't know that anyone is supposed to "enjoy" this, that isn't the goal. It's to gain some small understanding or appreciation for the absolute horror these men had to endure. It absolutely honors them by telling the truth of what happened.
War is too sanitized after the fact. These kind of things are necessary. Not everyone's cup of tea, but necessary.
Perfectly said. War is not all roses and daisies and everyone needs to remember that.
These women have no idea. As a matter of fact, unless you’ve been there (and I have, Iraq OEF) you have no fucking idea just how horrible war is. Which is exactly why it needs to be shown.
Unfortunately I agree
@@joeybossolo7 OIF and OEF. And you are correct yet we are giving them money by watching them react
To videos.
@@joeybossolo7 so what kind of reaction do you want exactly?
"Could there have been a better way to tell this story?"
No.
It was the Battle of Okinawa.
This is why women have no place in warfare. Men can't even stomach it, women become a liability.
If you are horrified, the movie achieves it’s intent.
Can you imagine the horror for both the US and the Japanese people if we had been forced to invade the Japanese mainland rather than forcing a surrender with the A-BOMB.
The bomb was a horrible, but necessary, mercy for both sides.
This series, and BOB needs to be shown at every high school in the world to teach what actually occurred in WW2. To my mind, BOB could have been more graphic and less touchy feely to illustrate the true nature of war, and what soldiers endure.
I am a Vietnam vet, my dad was WW2 vet, my sons are both “war on terror” combat vets. No offense meant but, You ladies have no clue.
Yeah have to agree, the brutality of the fighting on places like Okinawa was a big factor in the decision by America to use the A-bomb. As horrific as it was, I think it was a benefit to both sides when you look at the bigger picture.
General Kenney in his book General Kenney Reports: A Personal History of the Pacific ...said that thy were surrendering hard and that the A bomb was not as much a factor a everyone was told.
Arianna mentioned she could do without the visuals. On the contrary, it is the visuals that in a small way, convey the magnitude of the horror.
Why did he (Tom Hanks) have to show this? Because it happened! And it’s important we NEVER forget. Otherwise it’ll happen again.
It is truly insane as it IS happening again. The Ukrainians have lost nearly as many in a year as the US lost in all of WWII.
Thank you for saying this!🙏🏾
Looking around today..we`re already already halfway back there!
I don't know. Plenty of people even after watching this seem to want to go back to the good old days of the so called "greatest generation ever." AND join the military despite having not much financial hardships. Just saying. Same people who want gays and trans gone. Just like Natsis.
@@ca9968 i dont know what you're pointing at but I agree.
If you ever meet Tom Hanks, you should thank him. Until you saw this, you had no idea what these men experienced and endured. Eugene Sledge and Robert Leckie wrote their books after the war and gave detailed, first hand accounts of the battles they fought. They should be required reading, but I’ll bet you never heard of them until now. I’m not criticizing you. It’s just a fact. This is a part of our history that deserves to be remembered forever.
It's like they don't really realize that this is a true story, like it is something that Tom Hanks just cooked up in his imagination.
Im not going to thank a pedo for telling history.
I'm pretty sure they know all that...
@@oldking8276 I’m pretty sure they don’t. That’s why I made the comment.
@@CuttinEJ I replied to the wrong person, my bad. I think Maple's comment about punching Tom Hanks was because he included the child shooting scene instead of ommitting it. I think Hanks did the right call, just to keep hammering how horrible the Pacific was.
My uncle fought for 30 days on Okinawa when he was about 19. He did see the Japanese solders use civilians as shields and as bomb carriers. He came away physically unhurt, but he had issues later in life. By the time I was old enough to know him he was a kind, quiet old man. We attended his burial at Arlington National Cemetery a few years ago. RIP, Uncle Joe. Semper Fi.
My grandfather fought in the pacific and never fully recovered. He once had a flashback while my grandmother was at the store and shot at her when she came home, thinking she was the Japanese. The suggestion that this series is somehow “more gratuitous” than what he experienced really rubs me the wrong way but I know it is only born of ignorance. Here’s hoping all our soldiers can sleep in peace.
I never really knew my uncle Gene, one of my dad's older brothers. He was in the army on Guadalcanal. I wish I knew more about when and where else he served. I think he managed to find some peace, but I was told he and his wife could never sleep in the same bed due to the nightmares.
Your heart will not recover from this episode but take heart: you were not shown the worst of what happened in The Pacific Theatre. Not by a long shot.
War IS shallow. That's the whole point. You're not supposed to be happily entertained during this episode. You're supposed to see the horrors that these men went through. (Which were far worse in reality, btw.)
Making an lighthearted "action series" out of the Pacific would have done a disservice to every man that served there, and would have misguided the younger generation into thinking war is cool and fun.
It’s not about honor, it’s about war. The actual horrors these men were subject to were far greater than the little bit of visuals in this series.
There’s no honor in war. Watch a kid detonate a fuckin PBIED and tell me there’s honor in war.
You hit the nail.
You honor these men by telling the truth and not glamorizing what they went through. Showing the world the true effects of war, not just the unnecessary killing of human life, but the mental anguish suffered by the survivors.
@@Silky808 breaks my heart to think they barely had a language to describe the psychological turmoil too many of these men experienced for the rest of their lives. You survive the most brutal war in modern history after seeing or doing some of the worst things a human being has ever seen or done, and once you finally get back to your old life you can’t even validate why you’re not back to normal bc you don’t even have the words to understand what you’re feeling. And you get to live with that miserable confusion until you die, f me. Then I think of Vietnam vets who were spit on and hated when they made it home and didn’t even have “my country appreciates my sacrifice” to numb their trauma. I can’t even imagine
Dan Carlin in his "Supernova in the East" podcast series mentioned this. He said people reacted to the stories of war journalists who came back from the Pacific theater by saying "you're ruining the story by adding so much unnecessary gore" and they, just like this show, had actually been "watering down" the gore from real life. Read Sledge's book and you'll see the show did everything it could to water down what these Marines went through for general audiences.
Journalists of WWII had certain guidelines to adhere to, every story written had to be submitted and reviewed for approval by a body called the Office of Censorship.
Even photographs had to be submitted for review. Someone should point that out to this Dan Carlin, sounds like he's talking out of his ass, to put it bluntly.
@@deependz3231 Dan Carlin is the host of a, tbh phenomenal, podcast series Hardcore History
He goes hyper in depth on a wide range of historical events/eras with third, second and first hand accounts as much as possible and absolutely does not spare detail or water down, simply tells what happened, how it was perceived, what came of it.
I haven't listened to the one mentioned above but would HIGHLY recommend Blueprints for Armageddon (covers WW1 start to finish, uses LOTS of accounts in written form like letters from the front for example, and the series Wrath of the Khans, tells the epic and horrible history of the Mongolian empire. Seriously quality stuff)
Sledgehammers book really goes into detail to explain on just hellish the pacific theatre was for the United States had the entire war. That’s how they got certain scenes like snafu throwing rocks into the Japanese guys head previous episode.
The civilians in Okinawa were tricked into thinking American Soldiers & Marines would kill their families if taken so many of the mothers would actually kill their children with themselves, there was a cliff where marines saw families throw themselves off. We’re lucky they didn’t show that part.
The caves that saw mass suicides on Okinawa are really haunting stuff. One group was saved because two of the Okie civilians had been to Hawaii and knew American soldiers wouldn't hurt them if they surrendered. They convinced the group to give up and come out.
It's nice to sugarcoat history every now and then. There are some of us that will kill everything breathing just so my Brothers will have a better chance to go home.
Yes, I agree, this was true. The true malevolence and evil of the empire of Japan is overshadowed by Nazi Germany. We faced two terrible foes, and thanks to men like Eugene Sledge and others we are a much better world.
That was a cliff overlooking the Marpi Point Airfield on Saipan in July of 1944.
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong about this series. The Pacific Theater was *so* much more barbaric than the European Theater. Sanitizing it to make it more palatable would do a disservice to the experience of these men. Men like my Grandfather who piloted landing craft at Luzon and Okinawa.
Perhaps the US experience was more barbaric in the Pacific Theater than the European but the fighting on the Eastern Front between Germany and Russia was plenty barbaric.
@@ericsierra-franco7802 I mean, how is this relevant to the discussion? The ladies are comparing BOB to the Pacific. Not comparing Mein Krieg to the Pacific.
I read a comment once that went something like this:
"In WWII, the European Theater was a classic battlefield, the Russian Theater was a post-apocalyptic nightmare, and the Pacific was a straight-up horror movie."
@@ericsierra-franco7802 You're confusing size and scale with barbarity. They are not the same things.
@@ericsierra-franco7802no one said that it's worse or better than the Eastern Front
For me, I think what the series does perfectly is telling the story of what war is. BoB is a great series, but when I watch it, it makes me want to join the fight for my country, when I watch the Pacific, it reminds me what real war is about, a day in and day out grind of suck. That feeling of dread and exhaustion you feel every time you watch the next episode is what the show is trying to do. Its putting you, the audience, into a fraction of the experience of a soldier in the pacific. BoB is almost a story of heroes fighting a heroic fight...Pacific isn't heroic, and the experiences of those men weren't really heroic. And they were left with very little left to show for their sacrifice. With BoB, you get to feel like their fight had some sort of noble purpose, and that they got to keep their humanity. The Pacific does not. Their are two scenes in the last episode that hit the hardest with me out of the whole series, both involving sledge. And I don't think those scenes would hit me as hard if I didn't get to see all that lead up to them. In the end, I'm sorry this wasn't what you were expecting...war isn't
Well said.
Well said
I know this was a very difficult episode for many us to watch but it's very type of thing we need to witness because some of our recent ancestors were forced to endure firsthand for us.
If all depictions of war were watered down, entire perception of past warfare would be subject to cognitive adjustment. The moment we believed it all wasn't that bad, we'd be less wary about repeating it. Frankly, I believe it already is watered down way too much - and the horrors were furthermore diluted by glorification of one of the sides that was typical to earlier war movies - and still is in some countries, like Russia.
If Russians weren't taught they were the saviors of entire free world, maybe they wouldn't be so cheerful about killing Ukrainians today.
Showing the truth is always the best approach. We should appreciate the choice we have of not watching gory stuff - unlike people who witnessed it IRL - but if we want to watch their stories, we should not demand it watered down. They had no such choice.
@@vonz8413 Thanks for expanding on how I feel also because you explained it much better than me. Thank you again
I honestly have to say this is the first time I've disagreed and honestly to the point where I'm a bit angry. I understand that you guys aren't used to this level of brutality, but as other comments have said this is genuinely what the pacific theatre of war and combat with Japanese was like, and it could even be said that this is a toned down version. The idea that depicting the veterans of these and other conflicts around with this level of realism being disrespectful is what makes me angry though. To depict the struggle these men went through with more concern to upsetting audiences than showing the authentic, if horrible, reality is an insult to the sacrifices they made. My great grandfather fought in Burma and had nothing good to say about it, he came home and threw his medals in the river Severn. While I think he'd rather have forgotten the war, I can't imagine anything he'd have hated more than someone coming along and making a nice sanitised and glorified version of his experience just to show deference to him or keep the audience happy. As a serving soldier myself, I believe I'd feel the same in that situation.
Exactly. Very, very well said.
These two girls are so ignorant
I think you did need to see this. Clearly it did its job, you got the closest visual experience to what it was like there. Doesn't matter if you didn't want to see it, it wasn't overkill, it was important to the story. Okinawa was one of the most horrifying battle ever fought and this was actually pretty tame. My grandfather was wounded twice on that island. This was not sensationalism, if anything this was mild compared to what actually happened.
Agreed. I think they’re both a little selfish and overly dramatic, and just uneducated.
@@c__b9193 I don't think selfish or dramatic at all, just ignorant. And not ignorant like "You guys are stupid", ignorant of what the Pacific War was truly like. I think they're giving their honest thoughts as civilians who were never exposed to this stuff, real or cinema.
@@c__b9193 no, they're normal. And unless you are a combat vet, you aren't. You can't honestly expect a "omg what a great thing" reaction after showing what amounts to a snuff film purely in terms of visual. Not saying The Pacific is one, but it is pretty severe.
@@agarlicsorbet6482 I'm not a combat vet, and I sat back after this series and said "wow that was great" because it is. It had the balls to at least somewhat show how horrific an often forgotten about front of the largest war in history was. Fighting the Nazis is all we here about, but they were nice fellas compared to Imperial Japanese. This was tame compared to what really happened. They didn't even show Tarawa, or Manila. And a snuff film shows real death sooooo
It’s underkill if anything.
Having read the books, everything in the show is described in the books. In fact what is described is often more horrific than what is portrayed.
This is one of the most powerful episodes in the series. I know its hard to watch, but this is is why The Pacific is special. The Pacific and the the memoirs from Leckie and Sledge, have taught me a lesson like nothing else. How terrible the world can be and why we should never let this happen again. So much was stolen from the men and women who had to be there for these events, regardless of what flag they fought for. The Pacific is heartbreaking, and it should be. We cant let this happen again. Thank you for experiencing the show, these kinds of artforms are painful but remind us of what's important. Love the channel, you guys are awesome
at least you have the privilege to only have to see it in a movie
The episode being so dark, relentless, and horrible, to me, was the whole point of it. It doesn't matter if I didn't enjoy it, the point is that this truly terrible event happened and so I felt obligated to educate myself. From doing so, we remember how much people sacrificed and lost. These are not easy lessons, but learning from the past and being grateful for our lives today is all we can do to honour those who died. In my opinion anyway.
FYI it's war and death .... You are not intended to be entertained but taught the horror they lived for our freedom. So we do not have to. So we never forget .
That's a problem with today they forgotten
@@charliecostella We've all become far too accustomed to modern comforts. We live in society that genuinely believes there is no longer wolves at the door.
@@boogaloobaloo it's the fact we are the wolves at the door now for many countries so ofc this country would rather have us be ignorant about war when we're the ones perpetrating it
@@jeambeam3173 We have been since the beginning of the industrial revolution, and permanently took up the mantle under Woodrow Wilson. You're absolutely right about the govt keeping the populace at large ignorant of it.
Also, the moment of Eugene calling into the puddle with the corpse- that was one of those things in his book that is HUGELY impacting. It jumps off the page and into your brain. It was one of those things that when they said they were making this series based on his book I thought 'they could never show that'. But they did- to be honest to the material. Even in the book the event is a major moment in his memory, and you can tell that it was a major impact on him for the rest of his life. The show includes it because IT WAS REAL- both the event AND the impact it had on him.
I will agree with you that this is a very, very difficult watch, but don't accuse it of being gratuitous. This is as honest a portrayal of war as you will get in American cinema. Everything else is gratuitous by comparison- not for its violence, but for its glorification.
Unfortunately, they couldn't do the opening discussions with as many of the actual men for this series. By 2008-10, most of the men were already dead. BoB was made 10 years earlier, when many more of those veterans were still alive.
Very well said...better than I did. I was very angry at these two girls after listening to their "critique." I'm a former combat medic. War is hell and unimaginable to those who haven't seen it.
His entire book jumped off the pages and into my brain. He was too good of a writer, and you can see in perfect detail everything he describes. That being said I do kind of wish they would've made another Okinawa episode. There was so much more Eugene experienced there that wasn't portrayed in the show.
@@EBRoyJr I wouldn't be too critical of them, I feel like it's an honest critique from someone who's not exposed to this kind of stuff. Real or cinema. If they had read a couple books, like Sledge's book, before watching, they would probably understand that it's not gratuitous at all.
Yes, so much of the book is consumed by the horrors on Okinawa. I think it's at least a third of his book, IIRC, and it's just as bad as what's on screen, if not worse. It has stuck with me ever since I read it over a decade ago.
I noted in the first episode reaction the Pacific theatre was SAVAGERY. "Respect" is telling the truth on the subject. Your reaction to the series doesn't grasp the increasing and vitriol intensity of this theatre. Hiroshima and Nagasaki stopped MILLIONS of casualties both sides.
RUclips has Sledges book in a narrated series and it is what this series is based on. Your disdain for the production of this demonstrates a generation raised on television war. This highlights why our returning veterans from the 20+ years of warfare don't reintegrate into a society which has no concept of what violence, real violence, looks like.
Disappointed in your lack of why this was done in the cinematic manner it was done.
There is a passage from Eugene's book that stuck with me where he goes into great detail describing the rotting corpse of a BAR gunner that is "looking" at him in his foxhole for days. Eugene wanted people to know how horrible Okinawa was.
I just listened to that passage today. Gruesome.
Can we get a video of them giving their input to the comment section of this episode? I'd very much like to how they feel after seeing everyone's input.
One thing to point out, the absolute disgust and uncomfortableness that you feel is how all those 17,18, 19 year old kids felt when they saw it in real life. The series is more focused on expressing and sharing the level of trauma that young Americans AND Japanese went through. What you feel is perfectly normal and natural, war is hell where innocent young men die for old men's pride. But this is all the more reason to take these movies/series as a serious learning tool to understand what some of these people have been through. The sick feeling in your stomach is what they probably all felt too, but they couldnt close the window to make it go away. Unpleasant events in history doesn't give us an excuse to not understand them.
8:49 The thing is though, the Japanese didn't see the Okinawan's as "their own people". It's messed up but they saw them as lower and beneath them. That's why you see them shooting them, using them as human shields and blowing them up.
They still don't treat okinawan people that good today. It's the most poor, neglected prefecture in japan for a reason
Its actually very telling how you were able to handle Band of Brothers but The Pacific crossed your threshold. Very good anecdote for how much more brutal the pacific war was. Both series are very true to how those theaters were.
"Is there a better way to tell this story?" -Maple.............ummmmm, who wants to tell her that this series is based on the books of all of these men, that experienced it with the exception of John Basilone? This isn't a case of writers sitting in a room, imaging ways to gross out viewers. This is an extremely tamed down version of all of these men's memoirs. I really feel that this entire series has been lost on these two for the fact that this is probably tame compared to what these men went through. Also, how is recreating these men's memoirs not paying reverence to their sacrifices? I really feel like trying to put a more glamorized and positive lens on these men's experience would have been a travesty to the sacrifice they made. I can admit that maybe I'm wrong and reading this situation wrong, but I really feel that their attitudes are far too common of most women and the general publics thoughts on war.
*****I really agree with the consensus of the commenters that their reactions really disappoint me and seems to have missed the mark completely. They're only human, but I really feel that this series main intent flew right over the both of their heads. I guess that is the reality of reaction channels and that this isn't an echo chamber and their reactions are genuine. I want to stress for that reason I will continue on this journey with them. I am sorry if my comment seemed to insinuate that I expect either of these wonderful gals and Chad to "react" a certain way. Keep up the good works you guys, I really do enjoy the channel.
I agree, Sledge wrote his book because he WANTED people to know what the Pacific War was truly like. He was even more "gratuitous" (to use their word) in the book than they were in the show. To make some sanitized hero worship like BoB or SPR, would be insulting to the men who actually faught in the Pacific
The European theater was not the same as the Pacific and that’s the truth. Eugene’s book is truly horrific and a sad read. They have toned down things from the books. You hate the excessive violence. Yet you watched 1 hr of content of an 80+ day battle. And to think that they didn’t see horrible things everyday. The war in the Pacific was a war of extermination.
If Episode 9 left you with the mindset of: "What? You mean this would have gone on for another 2 years? With 1 million American casualties if it were not for the atomic bombs? Then so be it: use the damned bombs and end this disgusting, ugliness and suffering," then mission accomplished by the film-makers. You have been transported back to 1945 and the mindset of the people of that day who made those decisions.
I don't normally watch the end of a reaction video because I just enjoy the reaction during, but I let it go on and was very displeased with how you think this wasn't an accurate depiction or in terms of portraying this in a more gracious way. This series was very well done and from all the books I've read about the Pacific and shows the brutality that the Marines went through in this campaign. Band of Brothers seems more personal because that is the way it is tailored. It is focused on Easy Company's role and men. The Pacific focuses on the brutality and the horrors of this side of the war that not many people think about when they think about World War 2. The Japanese were fanatics and as the war made it onto their homeland, their attitude changed very drastically for the worst.
USAF Vet, as I said earlier the pacific war was different then the European theater. The Japanese were in a culture of death, to die for the emperor was a great honor. What you are seeing is the true horror of war. can't sugar coat it.
That's partly true. While there were some fanatics in japan at the time, there was also the fear of retaliation from the japanese government by the population
This episode is very dramatic and emotional. One my favorite highly artistic series, real military epic.
wonder if they know what unit 731 is or what the Japanese did to the Chinese civilians who helped the Doolittle raiders if they wanna say tom hanks went overboard
The one thing that I have to disagree with you wonderful ladies on, is that you did need to see it. Everyone needs to understand that the sacrifices made by those who serve make lasting changes. You need to understand and know what we go through. It isn't overkill, it's underplayed.
"Thank God it's over"
This episode is a success. If that's how you feel you know just a little bit how the men felt. This is Not Sanitized story telling.
It is supposed to evoke these feelings though. This is the thing, this is not over kill. I'd anything, if you look at some of the realities of the war in the pacific... this isn't even ad bad as it was. What those men went through was hell on earth. This is real. It isn't for "cinematic effect". This is true story telling. They are telling the story how it happened and honored the men who went through it
It's very easy to be judgmental about "war crimes" when you're not in it. You keep that judgmental energy handy when you see *your* friends blown up in front of you. Supposed principles are nothing without having them actually tested.
That is a very flippant reaction to a very real moral issue. You can empathize with what these guys are going through without losing your own sense of morality. There is a very big difference between understanding why something like hitting prisoner might happen and excusing it.
@@Brendissimo1 Your morality changes between the couch and the trench. You're not a serious person if you don't realize that. Your morality changes when your friends are ambushed, blown to bits, hacked to death, mutilated, tortured. Your morality changes when you've seen death served a hundred ways.
Stop moralizing on top of your milk crate. Your morality in the safe embrace of peace and security and plenty means less than nothing.
@@Brendissimo1(comment made by person whos nation havent seen war in their ground for more them a century) i doubt you would have this dont judge war criminals position if you wasnt an bennefitiary of one whos sure will never be victim of an war never
@@bernardoblanco4286 You know nothing about me, don't pretend like you do. And don't pretend like striking unarmed prisoners or shooting them, torturing them, raping them, castrating them, or all the thousands of other horrible things that happen to POWs in real conflict right now are in any way necessary or excusable to win a war. Abusing or murdering POWs who are in custody and disarmed is NEVER excusable. Take your moral relativism elsewhere.
Now you have a better ideal of what they sacrificed for our freedom.
Exactly. This is the price those men paid so these two can carelessly sit and react to movies in the comfort of their home.
What they're complaining about, contrary to their description, is that this show doesn't dramatize or stylise the violence. The violence is shown as it was. The war in the Pacific was one battle after another as the Americans hopped from island to island and was as ugly a campaign as it gets. There's a reason the European campaign is emphasized in history classes. I guess these two wanted it to be prettier.
Note: American Civil War veteran and author Ambrose Bierce would be proud of this shows hyper real depiction of the ugliness of war
That's a really bizarre reaction to me. They were warned that this series was going to be really dark and get worse. If they didn't want to watch it, they shouldn't have watched it. This series is about how terrible war is, it's not meant to be "enjoyable." What did they expect that they were going to get from it. After seeing the scene with the women strapped with explosives, I had to wonder, how do you ever come back from that, how do you not just lose you mind right there. But these are things that people experienced and somehow came back and lived their lives.
Also, Sledge and Leckie died well before the series came out, so the veterans you see talking aren't them.
Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History Podcast series “Supernova In The East” is absolutely worth listening to. You will gain SO MUCH Japanese perspective, not understanding but a glimpse in to the perspective of the Japanese people and how things got to this point. There’s a saying Dan uses many times throughout the series, “The Japanese are just like everyone else, only more so” and nice you learn more historical context and just how “more so” they culturally were you really can see how the pacific became the war that it did. Because in the series “The Pacific” we barely scratch the surface. The Chinese and the Koreans got it much worse unfortunately.
An example of how much surrender was not in their culture there were thousands of soldiers that didn’t surrender when the war ended. Hundreds that continued for years, a few for decades. Hiroo Onoda, a Japanese lieutenant, didn’t surrender until 1974. 1974! And he was still causing casualties. He did t surrender until the Japanese government found the exact officer that had ordered him to stay and fight to come order him to stop.
It really is a fantastic pocast series. Can't recommend it highly enough.
There's a reason why Band of Brothers seems more "personal" than The Pacific. For BoB, the research for the book began in about 1990. They ended up with a ton of written material and filmed interviews. For TPac, the research started much later, based mostly on Leckie's and Sledge's books.
It's also due to the fact that BoB centers around a single Company, one that managed to take us through the European Theatre from Normandy landings to the capture of Eagle's Nest. Concersely, this show gives us spotlights on a few soldiers spread across three different Regiments of the Marine Corps.
Yes, but also BoB has a much more limited scope. The men of one company, plus a few higher officers, throughout the whole liberation of Europe. The Pacific on the other had has three protagonists from the same division but all in different units, each with their own groups of friends and comrades and assignments. That's where some of the narrative lack of focus comes from.
And the Pacific, as originally envisioned, would have been even broader, including Naval Aviators and POWs and their experiences. I am glad they limited it to just the 1st Marine Division, though. Trying to cover the whole theatre would have been way too much.
The show is the watered down version of what really happened. The book is more graphic and detailed.
I am a vet as well and having known WW2 vets and hearing the stories and reading several books, I can say this show toned down the gore and terrible things by far. There was no gratuitous violence here at all.
Being able to handle the graphic nature of this show doesn’t mean you’re desensitized. I’ve seen this show multiple times over and I’ll never be used to it but what I can do is appreciate it for showing the true nature of war. It’s not supposed to be an enjoyable watch and when it comes to war, sometimes that’s the most valuable reminder a tv show or movie can provide.
Band of brothers is good to learn leadership traits. The Pacific shows the reality of combat. The Japanese were beyond brutal, and this does show what the marines actually dealt with. In the next episode, there is one scene that perfectly sums up the difference between fighting in Europe and in the Pacific.
Sledge's book is fantastic and also incredibly graphic. The main difference from the show is that you're able to clearly understand the depth of his thoughts and emotions. If anything, the book is more horrific than anything they showed on screen.
My Dad was a Navy Corpsman with the Marines at the Battle of Okinawa. It was not till almost 20 years after his death when my oldest brother went to Saint Louis and got a copy of his record did we learn he was at Okinawa. Dad never talked about Okinawa, so I did not know he had been there the several times I was sent there with the Navy. Our Dad only told us about him being stationed at Naval Hospital Pearl Harbor and being part of the occupation Marines in Japan after the war.
My Dad was also a Navy Corpsman for 23 years.
He served from Korea to the Vietnam war. The only things he ever talked about was when he was stationed on aircraft carriers later in his career.
I'm sure he saw some really dark things since after he was out he always carried a sidearm.
He passed long before I was old enough to ask him what he did.
My dad was a landing craft operator (coxswain) in Africa, and at Normandy on D-day. He didn’t speak of it. My uncle served on destroyers during the battles of the Atlantic . He never said anything. But we knew.
I served in the Navy and am a member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club ( look it up) . We pulled so many Vietnamese refugees out of the South China sea trying to escape that hell.
Both my sons served in Iraq and Afghanistan during the wars on terror. My oldest was in Army special forces and still deals with PTSD along with an injured leg. My younger son was career Air Force Master Sargent .Both are disabled vets now.
Sorry sensibilities are disturbed by watching these historical events, but people need to see what we ask of our service people and the price these folks pay for our freedom.
When you said it wasn't enjoyable television, I think that was a the point. Far too many shows/movies focus on the heroics for the sake of "Entertainment". The rawness of it is meant to inspire every negative emotion you can muster, so you can associate them with the most realistic feelings soldiers experience. Looking at the gratuitous nature and thinking what's the point, is exactly what many of them feel.
I come from a military family and all the "Thank you for your service" and super hero like treatment is often not as appreciated as you may think. From what my veteran family has told me, it's nice to know people care, but often brings more guilt than anything. Not because they don't appreciate it, but because it makes them feel like people have an overly romanticized notion of the "Brotherhood" and what "Heroic" acts they do. This makes them feel cloistered. That helplessness, exhaustion, and feeling of thank god this is over you got from watching this, is probably the closest a film or television series could ever bring you to the real feelings soldiers had when going through this. If anything, watching something this brutal can truly help you to see a soldier for what they are, as opposed to what entertainment tries to make them out to be. I think a truer sense of empathy came come from something this visceral which allows you to honor them in a more profound way than just being a cheerleader. Just my 2 cents, and I appreciate the honesty and reaction.
All you can ask of a filmmaker is: Did you tell the truth?
These chics really said: "you guys, can you tone down your TV show about the deadliest war in human history (which is based on real experiences from soldiers) just a little bit? It's kinda scary and disgusting 😊"
I am a US Army Combat Medic Veteran, I did 2 tours in Iraq, I am proud of serving.
One of the worst things that I found were clearing houses in Small villages. I cant really explain the feelings and what you go thru and lose of yourself.
That being said: I think it is important to tell these stories to make an impact to deter people away from war and conflict.
I am probably the biggest advocate of peace after my experiences, I dont talk much about them, but what happened should be known. If there is a chance that it would turn one person away from violence!!!
Imagine bring proud of serving on the aggressing side of a war that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of civilians. Every scar and trauma you carry is punishment for the war crimes you helped perpetrate. Being a medic doesn't absolve you of shit when your primary job was to help fellow war criminals continue their aggression. You and every American vet since 1946 deserve every bit of pain and suffering you get, the victims of your wars can find some small comfort in that.
Insisting on a sanitized version of events or people's inability to handle the truth about what happens in war is actually one of the reasons veterans feel obligated to shut themselves out from society. I usually like hearing the discussions after each episode but this one is honestly a little detached from reality and disrespectful
One thing The Pacific is NOT about is dramatic effect or gratuity. This is what all war films should be- show it as it is. American war films tend to propagandize what happened. They hold up the men as heroes and make it seem like this fantastic adventure. Even a gory, brutal film like Saving Private Ryan, still portrays the men as heroic. Eugene, Snafu, etc. were pushed to the absolute edge, were lucky to survive, but carried DEEP emotional scars from what they saw for the rest of their lives. This is why. This is why most Pacific veterans NEVER talked about their experiences. They were just far too horrific.
The Pacific succeeds in portraying war as hell. In recent years, only it and Fury do this, in terms of American films. If you watch military films from other countries, they tend to be much darker/more honest. Films like Come and See, or Das Boot, Stalingrad, etc. are as dark or darker.
We need these dark films to remember in peacetime (or at home) just how terrible war is.
Ladies be glad they didn't show the brain washed Okinawans jumping off cliffs, even with their children in their arms, because they had been told the Americans would do evil thing to them.
As the battle of Okinawa goes this representation isn't even close to how bad it was.
We as later generations have a duty to try to see what they went through on that island for 82 days.
82 days of hell on Earth.
The horror of Okinawa was the main factor in the US's decision to use the atomic bombs in Japan.
"They're Okinawans". Japanese treated, and still do, Okinawans as second class people. During the second world war the atrocities of the Japanese were on par with the Nazis.
Correct. The Japanese military had no concept of the Geneva Convention and never adhered to it. An American soldier's chance of dying in a German prison camp was one in 25. In a Japanese camp those same odds were one in four.
The Japanese were much worse then the Germans , they killed and raped their way through Asia for no reason other then they could. The shit they did on the Philippines island was horrific and what makes it worse they didn't really need to do any of it they just did.
@@elitexpgaming1810 It was more "master race" stuff, very similar to the Germans, but often the comparison isn't made. When you think you're chosen and all other Asians are inferior, it's easy to think you have a divine right to rule over them and do whatever you want.
One thing that isn't mentioned enough is that really up until this series, the Pacific theater was mostly portrayed in such a glossed over way that they seem almost completely fictional to what actually happened.
There is also a companion book to this series and while it focus less on Leckie (t recommendeds just straight up reading his book) it does take from sledges, Syd Phillips and Burgins books. It also adds two other perspectives, that of a marine officer who is captured at the start of the war, escapes and is actually the commander of the sledges battalion on the first day of peleliu before being injured, And that of a navy pilot who from literally the day of the pearl harbour attacks, through many decisive and famous naval battles (midway, Guadalcanal etc) until the Japanese surrender. It's definitely well worth the read!
Sorry you gals are so messed up over this...
However, everyone needs to see this to have better appreciation for what they did..
This is a speck of what they had to endure..
Only the dead see the end of War- Plato
Consider this. This is the version of the story they felt could adequately generate the right type of response from the audience without haunting them for the rest of their lives as it did for many of the men who experienced the war as it happened. This is the toned-down version. The War in the Pacific theatre was brutal and animalistic to the core and yet it got more brutal as it progressed. Hiding this brutality would have effectively told the story of these men through a set of rose-tinted glasses, ensuring the audience would never have a chance at understanding what they went through.
Your whole conversation is basically when I say
“I don’t like horror. There’s a better way to do it. I don’t understand horror. You know, we don’t have to focus so much on Jason and Freddy. I could have read a book about this.”
I honestly hated their reaction at the end. 21:22 How can you accurately portray events without showing them? Their whole take is "I don't like seeing people die/suffer so this show is bad." You're not supposed to enjoy seeing this but to learn from it so it doesn't happen again and be aware of what Americans suffered so you can be free today. Not all entertainment media has to be positive to be worth while.
Another thing the show achieved was making the viewer feel as close to what those soldiers were feeling everyday as possible. The helplessness, the desensitization, the horror, the anxiety, the fear.
The Pacific was the second deadliest conflict in American history behind the Civil war. Against the most fanatical military and culture on earth at the time. None of this is romantic or hollywood, it isn't meant to be.
"I prefer to read the book than to watch the series again..." Unbeknownst that the Eugene book is way more brutal than the motion picture. Seems like a preposterous statement, but yes, the book is total carnage with sparing periods of lull and dull (like when Sledge mentions the cleaning parties). This series is brutal because the Pacific Theatre was brutal. Europe from BoB was different, though hard and gory, it was less savage and battles were fought mainly in and/or around cities, with more and less access to confort. This series makes us praise and thank our vets for what they have done in WWII. Marines FTW!!
The thing about Snafu, I believe, is like the classic saying "It takes one, to know one". He only shows remorse or respect, when he recognize his own state in others. He is not an asshole by choice, pacific war made him.
Those civilians were not "their people" because they were Okinawans rather than mainland Japanese. Okinawans had their own Okinawan culture and own form of martial art they practiced on their island, the Japanese considered the island a part of their Japanese islands but considered Okinawans to be inferior people and so occupied the island treating the natives like trash. They didn't let them practice their island's native martial art and basically treated them like cannon fodder. They didn't mind sending Okinawan women and children running at American lines and then opening up a firefight making it hard to fight back without hitting civilians, it was a tactic of theirs that they did without hesitation.
*War is not supposed to be entertaining. But girls you will most certainly prefer episode 10. Its cathartic. Episode 9 of the Pacific is literally the HARDEST episode to watch of any of these TV show war mini series (including **_Band of Brothers_** ). I'd like to see you both watch Band of Brothers together* 📺
When you feel horror or repulsion at what you are witnessing on the screen in an episode like this, take the opportunity to reflect, attempt to reach within, find compassion and not think of yourself first, today, but of the several generations of people who actually had to live or die through the sharper actuality, gore and soul wrenching power of these events in real life. What you are watching is very much supposed to be too much to deal with.
My parents, along with countless others from their part of the world, had the meat grinder of the eastern front between the Nazi and Soviet war machines march over them twice, and some of them managed to escape and reach the safety of a new life elsewhere in the world. My father fought as his nation was crushed by the main combatants, and my mother tended to the wounded, until they were driven from their homeland, meeting on the long, uncertain journey to where my brothers, sisters and I would eventually be born.
Your freedom, my freedom, our freedom to choose our direction in life and express ourself as we see fit, exist at the behest and sacrifice of those generations, and we all ought reach for the courage to endure a little piece of the story of what they went through, lest any generation ever forget those tumultuous events.
Why? Because it's not about us, it is about those who granted our freedom to be us.
I think they’re take on the episode is a very “first world privileged” take the whole “i know bad things happen but I don’t want to see them because they kill my vibe” …. Yeah you’re suppose to feel these emotions of anger and sadness because war is fucking hell… forgetting the victims and stories of atrocities committed by war is more of an insult to the victims than to sharing their pain and suffering.
I've watched The Pacific a few times and just now noticed something that squares with my own military experience. Sledge comes from a family of educated professionals -- father an MD -- who use proper English. After serving alongside Americans of wide range of backgrounds, his educated speech starts to slip into patterns more typical of the less-educated Marines who surround him. For example, he starts to say "ain't" when he never said that before. Makes me remember how service aboard a ship, surrounded by foul-mouthed sailors, started to make me curse a lot more than I had before. Anyway, just an observation.
I had not noticed that before. Excellent observation. I worked in a shop with a group of guys of Italian descent. After about a year one of the guys made an observation about how my own speach had changed and how much I was swearing.
There goryness on The Pacific exists to hive the viewer a glimpse of what the soldier in the pacific war had to go through.
The horror and savagery of the combat was on a whole different level.
It is horrible, but it was necessary.
Always struck me as odd that the Germans rightly were labeled racist for the Holocaust but the Japanese largely got a pass...
The book is far worse and makes you feel so much worse. They honestly couldn’t put everything in the show, because it would be far darker.
To respond to your comment about how the Japanese could make their own people blow themselves up like that; the Japanese didn't consider the Okinawans as "their own people." Although they look the same and have similar cultures, the Japanese were essentially colonizers of the Okinawans and didn't consider them to be Japanese people. As with anyone else who was not from the Japanese main islands, the Japanese considered the Okinawan people as ignorant country-bumpkin peasants and sub-human, barely above the level of beasts of burden.
The Pacific campaign was horrendous. This series does a great job showing that, but they don't even scratch the surface of the pure brutality it really was.
The violence is over though, the last episode is based back home.
We honor those Marines by showing what they went through, unfiltered. Just to let you know, the show is toned down, it was much worst.
I read Sledge his book 'With the Old Breed' and it is much more graphic than this series. Maybe you didn't want to see all the gore and despair so in detail in this episode, but that's exactly the point of this episode to make you feel empty, exhausted, numb. Just as the marines were. It was just too much to bare.
The series sort of takes you on the same emotional journey as the soldiers. At the beginning, you're excited to watch a new series but by the end you're just emotionally drained from watching the brutality.
Keep watching ladies, I think you will enjoy the last episode. It has many touching moments.
War isn’t just “camping with the guys” and hanging out. You both want The Pacific to focus on personable interactions like in Band of Brothers. But this is not that show. This is the watered down version of what happened in the Pacific. You two owe it to the veterans to sit back and understand in every detail of what they went through. Sometimes the small details are what affected the men the most
Sledges book about the real events is fucking horrifying compared to the show. They tamed EVERYTHING down to make it suitable for audiences, the real stuff is absolute nightmare fuel
Band of Brothers follows an entire company so you get a sense of what is happening because we follow their officers, the Pacifc follows 3 men who fought on the front, orders not making sense to them is par for the course.
After seeing this what do you think about the use of the bomb
A necessary and horrible blessing just to finally end the damned thing. People don't understand what a conventional invasion of mainland Japan would have looked like - a thousand Okinawas all at once for three years at least.
@@peteg475 2.1 million Japanese casualties was the conservative estimate.... For the first week of an invasion. Necessary is damned right. Sometimes the terrible choice is the only choice. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the only choice.
@@boogaloobaloo American war planners thought a Japanese invasion MIGHT be over by 1948. That's if everything went right. Brutal.
One importance of watching something like this is when a politician from either side talks about the necessities of military action you will know what can and does happen when people use war to settle disputes. This is the reality. All too often we deal with war in abstract terms. This brings it front and center. We try to refine warfare with our technologies and our words about Sacrifice and duty but this episode especially brings it home. Only after seeing what war does can we make a truly informed decision.
I know this hurt, but before this show, did you have any idea how brutal and dehumanizing the pacific war was?
A lot of what happened in sledge’s episodes is covered in his book. Just because it is in writing doesn’t make it much easier. The show might have changed characters or chronology a bit but women strapped with dynamite and the pebbles in the open skull.l…. That wasn’t the writers taking liberties. One thing to add, the audible version of sledge’s book is done by joe mazzello so it is interesting to take on.
Okinawa was living hell for the native population. In one hand the Japanese viewed them as inferior and treated them as such. And in the other hand the Japanese told the Okinawa people that the Marines would eat their children and all sorts of vile things. Marines witnessed civilians throwing themselves from the sea cliffs while carrying their young children. Absolute tragedy in every sense imaginable.
I was in infantry for three years and please consider this, there are honorable factors of being in a war, leading by example and even sacrificing yourself to protect your fellow soldiers, but there was nothing honorable about this kind of battle which was more of a slaughter than a gun battle. Although it seems disrespectful to the soldiers to suggest they participated in a massacre. Whats depicted in this episode is an accurate portrayal of this type of combat, this show wasnt made to honor the soldiers for their comraderie or even remaining innocent and good people despite the awful battles they had to take part in. This show instead honors how these soldiers sacrificed their innocence and sacrificed their humanity. Snafu is trying to keep sledge from doing just that through the first few episodes with the mortar team but inevitably this environment makes sledge’s heart stone-cold. Youll see in the conclusion of the series that the very fear that sledge’s father had about him going to war came to be true. Sledge is irreperably changed by his experiences and he has very little meaning to draw from any of it. There are only a lucky few in war who walk away feeling some sense of achievement but seeing your friends get killed right in front of you and inflicting that same thing on the enemy makes a person cold. Band of brothers depicted a group of brothers who are fortunate enough to be in a very tight-knit company where people are emotionally supportive. In the pacific theatre that was not the reality. To depict a wholesome presence of comraderie in the pacific that didnt actually occur or exist would be the ultimate disrespect to the reality of the events and eugene’s retelling of those events.
Appreciate your commentary. Pacific war was drastically different than European war. Just not sure if this series could have been told differently. A Japanese soldier would die before surrendering. It turned the Marines into brutal, viscous fighters. In Episode 8, they didn’t say they entire Japanese garrison either died in combat or by suicide. Very few surrendered.
Don’t worry Diegesis, next episode is return to civilian life. I’m glad you made it this far. Congrats 🙏
I just keep thinking about being those guys. Remembering when you were that age and trying to fathom being in that situation. They lived through a reality that we have a hard time watching a dramatization of. It's not a story. It's what it was really like on Okinawa. It's truly how the Japanese soldier would fight. It's not fun to watch, but it's important to watch.
Arianna, after watching Band of Brothers and the Pacific you might like a very old movie from right after the war. The 1946 movie "The Best Years of Our Lives" is about the adjustment to the men coming home after the war.
Brilliant movie. Suggest "Five came back" series. Exceptional and well done, informative.
That disconnect effect you feel, where they go from being in Hell one minute to Paradise the next, is deliberate, because that's what the soldiers themselves felt. It's one of the things that actually aggravates PTSD and is even worse these days when you can jump on a plane and go from Afghanistan to Atlanta in a matter of hours. The mental gear-shift is too sudden: to push the analogy, peoples' brains slip out of gear, the gearbox breaks, or worse, they select the wrong gear...
Comparing Band of Brothers to The Pacific illustrates the difference between the two theaters of war. In Europe, there has always been the idea that, despite the harsh realities, there was a "nobility" to it all. The war in the Pacific was waged against a very different enemy. One that was willing to fight to the death without quarter. The result was a level of savagery that doesn't fit in very well with the image we have of ourselves as a people. The series, by using the imagery that it does, forces the viewer to experience that reality. And, compared to the real experiences of the people that fought these battles, the viewer is getting off easy. Reading the actual accounts of these veterans doesn't get any easier. There are limits to what a movie or television show can put on the screen. Your imagination, while reading the stories of how it really was, has no such limitation.
If there was a band of brothers version of the eastern front, it would very much be like the pacific
@Stay Curious There was a German miniseries that included the Eastern Front, but the title escapes me at the moment.
It sad that you guys this was Hollywood trying to make it more cinematic. Nothing about what they did was cinematic. It was literally trying to be true to the source material at all times