The Pacific - 1x9 Okinawa - Group Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Saddened doesn't even to begin to express the feelings felt surrounding this episode, let us know what you thought of this episode in the comments and don't forget to leave a like and Subscribe! Be sure to stick around after the reaction for the discussion! This is The Pacific Episode 9! Okinawa!
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#ThePacific #Okinawa #HBO
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And to address Marketa's question, Okinawa was taken by the Japanese before the war, they were a separate people, treated as inferior and discriminated against. They hated the Japanese for what they did to them.
Wasn't this where Okinawan mothers jumped off cliffs with their children because they'd been told the Americans were cannibals?
@@citizenbobx Yeah.
@@samuelculper7125 No, that was Saipan.
@@budmeister No, that was Okinawa too and more famously, or rather infamously. Not that hard to look up in the slightest.
@@Nyx_2142 wasnt it both...
Timeline check: US landings on Okinawa took place at the same time that Easy Company was present in Haguenau (Band of Brothers, Episode 8) and their occupation of the Eagle's Nest (Band of Brothers, Episode 10, first part) took place while the Battle of Okinawa was still ongoing.
What Basilone is depicted in the show doing isn’t fictional...he really did do those things which is why he received the Medal of Honor for Guadalcanal and the Navy Cross for his actions on Iwo Jima.
21:30 The possibility of nuclear annihilation is too abstract a concept to process, but a small village shelled by mortars and artillery is real enough to be horrific.
it might be to abstract a concept to process for simple minded people but not everyone. Everyone might get acquainted first hand with nuclear annihilation very soon so get ready!
This episode, while very brutal, is toned down significantly from the reality. The fighting in the lowlands on Okinawa bore the greatest resemblance to the fighting in the First World War on the Western Front. Between the rain, the mud, and the unclaimed bodies on both sides that gave the living ghastly company.
The superior was green and new and Sledge didn't like him very much... so yeah when sledge yelled that at him as the guy who had been in combat all it did was shut the lieutenant up. He didn't get in trouble.
So true you have battle hardened soldiers who have been through hell and then here comes a green officer most likely trying to make a name for themselves.
They genuinely hated Mac. Not only was he over eager and green, but his was also inept and a genuine ass hole with poor discipline who did not take care of his men, or apply the same standards that he applied to himself as he did to them. Allegedly he was unilaterally hated, and was not well liked by some of the battalion leadership either.
@@austinoginski9513 mac did suck but it actually wasn't mac in that scenario. It was a officer nicknamed Shadow. A slender man hated by everyone who would constantly Berate the men.
@@austinoginski9513 you can tell by the fact no one even tried to stop sledge. If he was liked/respected him in any fashion someone wouldve at least tried to break them up at most yoked him up.
@@omalleycaboose5937 I am aware, though I genuinely forgot that it was Shadow in this instance, so thank you for the correction. Im sure you are also aware that Mac and Shadow were combined throughout the series to simplify the plot. I wish they had kept both, but I doubt the regular viewer would be able to follow along.
Let’s remember here that these men in the pacific were at war from 1941-1945.. while we invaded France (d day) in 1944. Imagine being at war for YEARS..in conditions like that. It’s no surprise they lost their humanity like this.
Exactly while they were on guadalcanal The army was fighting in the desert in North Africa. When the marines invaded boaganville We were fighting in Italy And that's The Thing a lot of the guys that were in Europe, they joined up in like, 42 and 43. These Marines had been in the shit since 1941, basically.
Bud us canadians were fighting from 1939 to 45 man 😅
@@shanefowler3349 That is absolutely true. You are involand some of the very earliest. Battles of world war two, including the failed landing at dippie
@@ClancyWoodard-yw6tg then we got payback on d day on Juno pushing the further in then any other country
@@ClancyWoodard-yw6tg and have to remember canadians training the Americans in the devil's bridged who already saw action lot of Americans didn't join the war till harbor but we fought along side marines in Africa Italy pacific and in France with the French residence
Iwo Jima and Okinawa were the only two islands of the Japanese Home islands that was taken by US forces. The US government saw how fanatically and more desperately the Japanese fought as US forces got closer to mainland Japan; so that’s why President Truman decided to drop the Atomic 💣s
Truman could have starved the Japanese into submission with a naval blockade
@@theawesomeman9821 Which would've killed more Japanese than the 100,000-200,000 ultimately killed by the nuclear bombings. No good options in that scenario.
@breaking the 4th wall like good point
Nukes were quicker and less risky
War is hell but the pacific theater and the eastern front in ww2 were on a whole other level
15:06 “Fuck Sledgehammer, he’s losing his mind” Wow it’s almost like he’s been in a fucking war for years
She really understands no perspective but her own.
When Sledge got back to his Civilian life he had a hard time adjusting before the war he was a hunter but after war he could never hunt again this Show is Based on the Book he wrote and also Lucky's Book too
And you think she’d keep her mind if she endured the same? She has no empathy or compassion.
@@catherinelw9365 I think after a 2nd watch she'd understand more, or maybe reading the book. We "history buffs" have to realize that when people who don't know about WWII or much about it, see something like this episode, their first reaction being revolted by Sledges wartime behavior is actually a good thing. It brings that understanding about how a brutal war like that changes people. I hope that they don't stop learning here and think that's where sledge's or other soldiers story arcs end. Some soldiers reclaimed their humanity. Some didn't. This is also why episode 10 is one of my favorites, really helps to show the impact the war had on the survivors for the rest of their lives.
That could have been what she said, but the vibe I got was when she said, "Fuck Sledgehammer..." was more like, "Fuck man... he's losing his mind..." I could be wrong, but I think she felt more pity than she did anger.
None of us can judge any of these people or even comprehend what could be or should be going on in their minds. There’s no logic or reason. It’s so psychologically and emotionally insane and traumatic just going day to day.
Okinawans aren't ethnically Japanese, japan conquered them in either the 15 or 16 hundreds(I think), so the Japanese saw them as lesser and thus using them as human shields and living bombs was fair game in their eyes. though I don't doubt if it went to the mainland they would eventually use fellow Japanese the same
My mother and aunt were raised in Okinawa as kids, living near the US base my grandfather was stationed, according to them the natives identified as Japanese folks and were very nationalistic. Everyone spoke Japanese and had Japanese traditions
The Ryukyu Islands were formally annexed by Japan in 1879 but had been under de facto Japanese control since 1609. After the annexation the Japanese government instituted a policy of forced assimilation, leading to widespread bias and discrimination. There is still an undercurrent of resentment towards the Japanese (government) among some Okinawans.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands
@@theawesomeman9821 Nowadays this is true, though even Okinawan accents are mocked in Japanese culture to this day.
@@whenthedustfallsaway I mean they're basically hicks isolated on a island so it makes sense that their accents sound strange to other Japanese
Thats classic western propaganda. Okinawa are considered japanese back then as now
The Marines particularly pride themselves as an all-volunteer force so that contributed to their lack of trust towards draftees
There was a distinction between japanese and okinawans, despite “home land” sentiment. But they had a militaristic expectation of civilian behavior pretty much everywhere they went. I imagine the military would have expected willing assistance and sacrifice of home island civilians in certain circumstances. If such a civilian failed to comply...
The messed up fact is that the two Atomic bombs saved Japan. The US and allied forces were gonna invade the Japanese main islands in an operation call Operation Downfall. The numbers of casualties is staggering. Japan itself wouldve been destroyed.
'Projected' casualties are not the same as casualties. I know the difference is academic, but historians have been juggling how Operation Downfall was formulated and questioned the assumptions on projected casualty rates. It becomes relevant when discussing the use of the Atomic bomb. Also, most people assume that the two bombs brought the war to a close, but the historical record is far messier.
@@andreraymond6860 Messier? Youre talking about the Soviet invasion of Manchuria?
The death toll would have been insane on both sides. The japanese own death toll predictions are staggering. It would have been the end of japanese culture for a long time period
@@andreraymond6860 no on this occasion the projected casualties were accurate. If not would of been higher. Iwo Jima alone took more US lives then it did Japanese soldiers. The Japanese were absolutely 100% ready to sacrifice and die for every speck of dirt on Japanese territories. Especially the mainland of JAPAN. Those 2 bombs alone showed the Japanese the US were ready to to wipe them all out to end the war. It was needed and saves so many more lives on both sides then it took
@@andreraymond6860 The sad fact is that these two bombs did not decide the outcome of the war. This was decided by the Red Army (USSR), after defeating Nazi Germany for 3 weeks, it defeated the Japanese Kwantung army (numbering about a million soldiers). Thus cutting off Japan from the supply of necessary resources from mainland China. After this event, there was no point in Japan continuing to resist, since without resources, it would not even be able to produce the necessary ammunition. The American government did this only for one purpose - to scare the whole world, and first of all, the main winner in the 2WW of the USSR. American historians have been writing various stories for 70 years to somehow justify this inhumane act of extermination of the population of two cities. And according to your comment, it is clear that they succeeded.
2:00. It's possible shield-maidens did exist, but not in the way they were depicted in the show. They were more likely to be a militia force trained to fight off invaders when all of their warriors or the majority of them were away raiding.
Guys it was either nuclear bombs or invade mainland japan with over an estimation of over hundreds of thousands of casualties which would be your choice the bombs or casualties in the hundreds of thousands not as an easy choice to make.
Also the millions of Japanese civilians and 2 some-odd million Japanese military personnel.
Japanese gov was predicting over 10 million close to 20 million Japanese deaths.
If ww2 happened right now it’s crazy how many people would be like he’s not that bad of a guy and don’t be a bigot. China has concentration camps for Muslims yet we have NBA players and movie companies saying China is great and don’t be racist. Whhhhhaaaatttt?!?!!?!?
Or let the Soviets take them from the other side, which they were definitely geared up for at the time. This was a pivotal decision in the beginning of the Cold War.
There were so many Okinawa citizens who either died, got used as human shields, starved or commited suicide since they were told the Americans would come and torture, rape or eat them.
From 300.000 civilians there was an estimated 150.000 civilian fatalities, and the Americans would find entire villages like the one depicted in this series that would be filled with citizens that had commited mass suicide, next to a few japanese soldiers who had also commited suicide.
Okinawa was reminiscent of the static destructive WW1 battles, and so was the Italian campaign when they reached the Apennine mountains south of Rome at the city of Anzio. The absolute carnage of Okinawa which was when the Japanese deployed mass scale kamikaze attacks, with over 1500 aircraft and also some motorboats, Thousands of American and British soldiers lost their lives on the ships, however the actual ships didn't go down.
It was what convinced the Americans to start the campaign of carpet bombing the Japanese mainland with fire bombs on their wooden houses, and what in the end helped persuade the Americans into using even greater weapons like the Atomic Bomb.
The WW1 like battle in the Apennine Mountains in Italy, and especially at Anzio was what convinced Eisenhower that they needed to invade in Normandy to defeat the Germans. Audie Murphy parcipated in the battle around Anzio, he is the most decorated soldier in US history even to this day, with a Medal of Honor and 32 other medals, but he got completely tormented by PTSD from the battle of Anzio. The memoirs of Audie Murphy is very similar to the description that the father of Eugene Sledge gave to him, how the soldiers from the Great War were just a shell of themselves.
The absolute horror of WW1 and the complete lack of treatment of what was then called "shell shock" left everyone spooked, even in WW2 and they wanted to prevent a repeat at all cost. In 1939 it had only been 25 years since WW1 started, so most of the career soldiers in WW2 had started their careers as 18-20 years old in WW1 and survived. Eisenhower and most of the other top generals in WW2 all came from the class of 1915, so they graduated in the middle of WW1, but before USA joined in. WW1 and the short aftermath of that was just printed so deep into the back of their skull that on the strategic and tactical level, that they were willing to do high risk operations just to avoid ending in such a situation. It is why they make all these choices that in retrospect is not what we would have done if we were to make it, and it is why we still can't come to terms with if some of these things were worth or not.
I had to take a break before watching the finale after this episode. I still think about this episode years after seeing it when it premiered.
To answer Marketa’s question at 35:10, yes you can be drafted into the Marines during wartime, especially in 1944 and 1945 when the United States needed more troops to replace the losses they were experiencing on the battlefields. US forces were suffering increasingly heavy casualties in the Pacific as the battles were becoming more and more bloody the closer they got to Japan, so it makes sense towards the later part of the war that you would be seeing more draftees on the frontlines. They also drafted Americans to serve in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War. Thankfully that was the last time we had a draft.
As far as the justification of the use of the Atomic bomb, if we had to invade (Operation Downfall was planned) the estimates vary, and no one will ever know, but were projected to be, 1.7-4 million American casualties, including 400,000-800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. It's use while brutal, saved lives.
The sad fact is that these two bombs did not decide the outcome of the war. This was decided by the Red Army (USSR), after defeating Nazi Germany for 3 weeks, it defeated the Japanese Kwantung army (numbering about a million soldiers). Thus cutting off Japan from the supply of necessary resources from mainland China. After this event, there was no point in Japan continuing to resist, since without resources, it would not even be able to produce the necessary ammunition. The American government did this only for one purpose - to scare the whole world, and first of all, the main winner in the 2WW of the USSR. American historians have been writing various stories for 70 years to somehow justify this inhumane act of extermination of the population of two cities. And according to your comment, it is clear that they succeeded.
@@GoodAngel25 : Wrong. The American submarines controlled all the waters around Japan, heck the American fleet (by far the largest in the world at the time and might I also add the most modern) controlled the waters as well. Japan didn't even have the fuel reserves to use the few remaining capital ships it had left (all were damaged on top of that)- they couldn't go out on any sorties. Come our invasion the Japanese Ketsugo Plan was for the few remaining air craft carriers and battleships to function as basically floating Anti Aircraft platforms and it was even considered to beach a few and just use them as heavy gun emplacements. Why is all this important? Japan was starving for oil, for food, and for weapons because we pretty much had them blockaided. US land based bombers in China (B29s) were another hazard for any shipping. Anyway, my point? Russia, with hardly a navy (seriously, look it up. How many carriers did you have to protect against Japan's 12000 dedicated Kamikaze planes? How many troop transports? What was your shipping capacity? How much troops were trained in amphibious warfare? ) was not going to be able to invade mainland Japan for another year and a half minimum. And that would be only if Stalin decided to crash produce a navy, and stockpile the enormous amount of food and troops necessary for the invasion. He would do that at the expense of occupying Eastern Europe and at the expense of probably a few million more Russian civilian starvation deaths as the Nazis had left your country devastated and presumably the millions of tons of American food supplies that were being shipped from USA to Soviet Union would have ended by that time. Also, unless he wanted to fight the American Navy he'd have to get our permission. Now you may bring up the invasion of the Kuril Islands and think Stalin was more prepared than he was, but , in fact, if you look into it you see that the invasion of those two small, lightly defended Islands was done using American equipment and with American training. The real message of the Russian Invasion of Manchuria against the already downsized and poorly equipped (lots of the Japanese Manchurian Armies equipment had already been shipped to Japan months or even a year earlier when they could foresee the need to fortify the homeland and before we totally took control of Japan's home waters) was not "The Home Land is Next" but "You can no longer use us to try and negotiate a better bargain". So no, given that a Russian invasion of the Japanese mainland before around November or December of 1946 (and with American permission at that) was literally impossible for logistical reasons alone (no ships, food, supplies or training in any large quantities), I dare say the Atomic bombs pretty much ended the war. After all, the Emperor mentioned the atomic bombs in his surrender speech, he didn't mention the Soviet Union at all.
@@remo27 Of course, I understand that you are still being brainwashed at school. But how distorted are your ideas about history. Stalin is a bloodthirsty tyrant, the USSR is poor and hungry, without the "paid" help of "good Americans" she would not have been able to win, and the Russians used not their own, but American weapons and equipment. The defeat of the Manchurian army, numbering 1 million soldiers, in 3 weeks is not a victory.
And about the storming of the Kuril Islands, so in general it's just a laugh)) The Soviet Marines stormed the fortified island in 3 days, the American Marines would have done it in 3-4 weeks)))
I don't understand whether there is any point in continuing a conversation with such a stupid person whose head is full of propaganda.
@@remo27 im not russian or american but your arguments are so thickly laced with patriotism and bias and post war propaganda in you its hard to take you serious. its clear you are the type that always identifies as a country rather than history
Fun fact sledge actually served in China for a while after the war in the pacific
Ironic when he said that as a preventive measure against the communist rebels attacking US forces they had to reinstate and rearm the Japanese garrison there to ‘keep the peace’, the very enemy he had been fighting months prior was now drilling and running patrols right outside their posts 😂
You guys should react watching hacksaw ridge that’s based on a true story that medic fought in the battle of Okinawa saving many American soldiers
Ughh that movie is pure propaganda.
A decent movie. Pretty accurate in its brutality but there's some things that really take you out of the film and leave you scratching your head. Like running towards the enemy while using a body as a shield, and it working. And unlimited M3 grease gun ammo for Vince Vaughn's character. Artistically adapting source material is fine, the Pacific and many other shows/movies do that, but Hacksaw Ridge made me cringe a bit.
@@yongyea1398 It was sensationalized, because Hollywood can't portray Doss' character and depth the way he was IRL despite numerous accounts from reliable sources.
sledge got a part of his humanity back, what ever is left...
Just imagine how many lives those atomic bombs saved.
Edit: Not so fun fact the US military minted so many purple hearts ready for the Invasion of Japan in anticipation for the losses suffered there that they are still giving away them into the Afghanistan war. And that's just the US. That's not counting how many countless Chinese, Burmese,Indian, Philippino, Indochinese,Dutch,Kiwi,British,Korean,Australian,French,Soviet and japanese ( and others I probably missed) lives would need to be added to the death tally for every day Japan still fought. military and civilian. I mean even with the surrender men like Hiroo Onada were still murdering Philippino Civilians until 1974.
On the topic of suicide attacks. Throughout history, we've known about various accounts of them. A few examples include the Devotio of Ancient Rome where the commander, in the face of defeat, would swear the oath that would put all the bad luck of their army onto them, don the cloak of the Devotio, and charge headfirst into the battle with his cavalry. Sometimes it resulted in their victory because the enemy army wouldn't expect such an endeavor from a nigh defeated enemy.
Other examples would be Fire Ships, usually obsolete naval vessels filled to the brim with gunpowder and set ablaze. Famously used by the English in the battle against the Spanish Armada Their skeleton crews would steer the ships to ram into enemy ships, jump into the lifeboats, and watch as their ship explode upon impact and hopefully spreading fire to nearby vessels.
A similar idea to the kamikaze was also developed by the Germans in WW2 to fight against bombers. The pilots would steer their aircraft into the paths of bomber formations to ram them, and jump out of their plane at the last second and activate their parachutes.
The sheer desperation and the concept of honour and serving the divine ruler.. or just the fact that you're dying for your country in some supposedly noble fashion, rather than face defeat and live with it. Terrible way to fight a war, truly terrible. I don't know how any officer could live with asking people to do that, or being in charge of such tactics.
That last example should be prefaced by an explanation. By the end of the war the Luftwaffe was sending green pilots into the air. They barely had enough flight experience to know how to take off and land, let alone execute aerial dogfights. Also, Germany was so low on fuel the pilots would not have had enough to do complex maneuvers. Punching through enemy formations in the hopes of clipping a large bomber was just about the best they could hope for.
Fire Ships weren’t suicidal. The intention wasn’t to die with the ship.
4:31 “That’s what we call in the business foreshadowing”
One of my favourite shows ever, "Sledge's right, had to be done..." .
My Great Grandfather fought on the island of Ie Shima which was located right next to Okinawa. The US Army invaded it because the Japanese had an airfield on that island that was going to be used against US forces invading Okinawa. He never spoke of what he saw or did there.
My grandfather was wounded on Okinawa and was also preparing for the invasion of Japan. That would have made Normandy look like a cake walk. I for sure would not be here today if they went ahead with the invasion and not drop the bombs. People nowadays have no idea what they are talking about.
I can't imagine the smell on that battlefield.
Band of Brothers hads the same stuff with replacements. The old timers struggled to get to know the new guys cause the new guys are always more likely to die and with them also dies a part of you. It's just a way to shield yourself from that emotional price you pay. Every death of someone you knew brings you closer to that breaking point.
We see what even the contemporary wars do to people. The stress you live with, even if you never end up in a firefight yourself. And those who do struggle even more.
But in contemporary wars people are taken care of a little better.
WW2 was something else, something truly terrible. It broke so many people, so many broken minds. So many folks who lived with it for the rest of their lives, never able to deal with it.
But those aren't the guys you hear stories of. It's the ones who somehow managed to stay together, keep their minds together despite the horrors. You don't hear about the ones who got broken, they just get swept away or turn up as bad guys in stories as abusive alcoholic fathers or whatever.
If y'all are interested in what the alternative to the atomic bombs were, I recommend looking up Operation Downfall. The RUclips channel AlternativeHistoryHub did a video on it.
Also, my understanding is that Okinawa is part of Japan but the citizens aren't seen as true Japanese people by other Japanese people
Okinawans were seen as less than Japanese, correct. However, saying that Operation Downfall was the only alternative to the nuclear bombs is a little disingenuous and I would recommend you watch the video "Dropping the Bomb: Hiroshima & Nagasaki" by a channel called "Shaun" Fair warning, the video is over 2 hours long but it is very detailed in its argument that the nuclear bombs were unnecessary.
Didn't mean to come off like it was the only alternative. Just one of many - invasion, naval blockade, continued bombing raids, demonstrating the bomb in a uninhabited place, etc. I'll check out the video
@@PhilHug1 I'm sorry if I came off as too aggressive. I'm always looking to learn more and spread some knowledge, so I do hope you enjoy it.
@@Cevorus315 What were the alternatives that wouldn't have also led to mass death? I'm genuinely curious.
The bloody month of May on Okinawa. Even as battles go it was absolutely brutal K35 landed with 240 men. 15 of those men walked away unhurt.
Ok I have a serious question. Do you really censor/remove the graphic content out of respect, to keep the video monetized, or both? Or is it because ya’ll are genuinely uncomfortable with showing extreme violence? I’m only asking because I’ve seen other channels show every bloody moment on the show and the video still gets ads on, so I was just wondering.
I think it's both.
The way the Japanese fought on places like Saipan and Okinawa really did a lot to convince Truman that the atomic bombs had to be used. Invading the home islands of Japan would have been an enormous blood bath. Some estimates were as high as 1 million US casualties.
Dudes, you were a bit off mark there. The brutality of the pacific war brought out the worst in everyone. The japanese gave no quarter, and the americans started to do the same, it was a brutal war. It's not about being a soldier that inherently makes you that way. The european theater wasn't like that, unless you were dealing with SS troops, then it might have been the same.
And another thing is when Sledge First joined up he grew up in alabama and When he was growing up there were Confederate veterans alive So that's why he had some of these ideas when he first got over there
Because he grew up hearing stories from people who fought in the Civil War.
Wasn’t expecting to have Vikings spoiled for me sooo thanks for that 😑
Marketa is right. Both the archeological record and the written sources suggest that scandinavian women sometimes took part in fighting, both in the viking age and before that, but there's no way to know how common it was, since there's no method of getting actual data on that.
That was the second time Bill was wounded. The first was on Peleilu at the bunker. Grenade blast caught him.
@22:22: You asked about "the two pilots," please remember The first aircrafts commander, Robert A Lewis was moved to Co-Pilot and the 509th Commander Col Paul Tibbetts displaced him, to drop the first bomb. (This made Tibbetts a celebrity, and the plane famous)
I've been waiting for this episode cuz I knew a few of you watched Shameless and wanted to see if you recognized Noel Fisher aka Mickey Milkovich and I was not disappointed.
The scene with the wounded okinawan woman in the hut played out differently in real life. In the book "With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge, he said that he went for a medic after finding her, but by the time he came back another marine had just shot her.
The Japanese government was probably perfectly willing to let more of their civilians die anyways, but as others here have said, the Okinawans were different. And are still different. Certainly different enough to be discriminated against. Despite the notion that Japan is homogeneous, many Okinawans are ethnically different and culturally different. And their traditional languages, while related to the normal Japanese language, are different enough to be incomprehensible to other Japanese.
And now Okinawa is home to the highest number of American military bases in Japan, regardless of protests by the Okinawan populace.
Saipan was actually the first large scale exposure to Japanese civilians that the Marines had in the Pacific. The Japanese had told the civilians there that the Marines would torture them. Many leapt off cliffs to their deaths. The actual footage of this is out there. It is absolutely devastating.
There's a reason a lot of Vets in the Pacific never forgave the Japanese
The nuclear bomb was the best option. About 250,000 people died with both bombs. If operation downfall happens it was a estimated 1.7 to 4 million u.s. soldiers die plus a estimated 5 to 10 million Japanese soldiers and civilians die.
The sheer brutality of both Iwo Jima and especially Okinawa is what convinced the American military planners to drop the Atomic Bombs on Japan instead of trying to invade the Home Islands. Both islands were Japanese territory and were defended fanatically so an invasion of Japan was going to take much longer and cost many more lives. The Battle of Okinawa lasted four months and cost the Americans 21,000 killed and 55,000 wounded. The Japanese lost 110,000 killed and another 15,000 captured (which was quite shocking because all throughout the war in the Pacific the Japanese almost never surrendered). On top of that an additional 150,000 Okinawan civilians were killed or committed suicide or went missing. IF you want more on Okinawa you can watch the movie Hacksaw Ridge that came out in 2016. Excellent film
Almost 90% of Okinawa's civilian population died in the battle. Many of them commited suicide because Japanese propaganda told them the US troops would torture, rape, and eat them. Others were used as shields. Others simply were caught in the crossfire.
With this in mind, imagine how many would have died had we been forced to invade the main Japanese Island. A lot more would have died than just the two cities we nuked.
"Fuck Sledgehammer."
Jesus christ, Marketta is the woooorrrrssst.
Hum, I think she said: "Fuck! Sledgehammer, he is losing his mind". She is just saying the obvious, but nothing wrong with that.
@@gimabihc2854 " *I* was saying 'Boo-urns'..."
I heard y’all talking about the A Bomb at the end and while I know it is terrible to think about you have to realize the enemy they were up against. This episode only touched the surface of what the Japanese were like in a no surrender situation and they would have put as many men, women, and children between the Americans and Emperor. It’s a horrible situation but think about Okinawa but on a much larger scale with millions of casualties
After watching this show, you have the right mind, watch a fun show like "All That", just something to bring some spark of life back. It's a heavy show.
24:04 Actually the Japanese didn't pioneer it, the Chinese were using to fight the Japanese long before WW2 even started.
My cousin's wife's family are Okinawans and they dont consider themselves Japanese.
You guys definitely need a wind down after this, I recommend watching Generation Kill! Finish the unofficial trilogy.
"The bomb is a political act", "it was the Government".
War is politics. The declaration of war is a political act. Every act those soldiers, and Marines, made was because of the decisions made by the political leadership. On every side.
The use of the atomic weapon was a strategic decision, not just some political maneuvering. The decision to use that weapon, was made when it was ordered to be researched and made. The idea for the nuclear weapon came from Germany. It was a race to who would create it first.
The target of the atomic bomb was a considered one too. There are other cities that were more significant, but were dismissed because of deep cultural importance to the Japanese. They also wanted a city that had a real military target in them. Keep in mind there was no stopping Truman from dropping that bomb on the Imperial palace other than considering the consequences of that act.
Keep in mind this was not long after Roosevelt's death. Harry Truman is now President. He did not know about the Manhattan project. To him it was a new weapon made for the war. So he signed off on it.
They also dropped fliers telling people to get out.
Ethnicity is the word youre looking for
"Get the fuck out!"
You think you can just walk away from this???
Snafu isn't responsible for other people's terrible, terrible decisions.
Hamm made an independently stupid choice.
Okinawa is to Japan like Sicily is to Italy essentially.
The U.S. Navy suffered more casualties off Okinawa, through Kamikaze attacks, then Marine and Army forces lost on land!!
I want to say this is the first time that our troops had to actually deal with an enemy that would use Civilians As human Shields and at this stage in the war, Japan was getting very desperate. And was preparing for An invasion of the home islands by American and Allied forces And in that desperation, they got very, very dark.
With what they were willing to do To try to stop it from happening.
Did we miss an episode over Iwa Jima or was there never an episode about that battle?
This series is mainly based on "Helmet for my Pillow" by Leckie and "With the Old Breed" by Sledge. Neither of them were there, so we only got a glimpse of it for Basilone's story.
Sledge's first hand account was even more graphic than this episode. The Sgt (Mac) would pick up skulls and take a piss inside their mouths.
Hey man those two bombs ended that conflict real fuckin quick didnt it
Before WWII, the Japanese had never surrendered in their entire history
My Tio was a boozaman who fought on Okinawa
In this type of series, it is expected to see your reaction to the worst parts, I do not understand why you do not transmit those parts. You can see their reactions but not the fact.
Pretty sure they got most of them.
In regards to the wet mortar fiasco, yes rami makes character took the new guys poncho but you see he still wears a good newly issue poncho so the shitty one was only to be used for keeping rounds dry. Of course take a fresh one off a new guy who 1. Might not even make it and 2. He can learn what it’s like to be wet and cold if it means the rounds stay operational
SNAFU had seen Hamm in his original ratty poncho earlier, so when the ammo crate was suddenly covered with a shitty poncho while Hamm had a brand new one he made the connection.
@@tehdipstick It wasn’t Hamm it was the other new guy who later gets Hamm killed when he freaks out. And I was originally referring to when they first arrived on the island and you see snafu trick the new guy into giving him a freshly issued poncho for the cruddy used one that causes all the fuss
Okinawa and the Ryukyu Islands became a part of Japan in the 17th century; though it wasn't until the founding of the Empire of Japan where the Japanese fully annexed Okinawa and the islands. Long before WW2, the Japanese treated Okinawans poorly by attempting to rid native Okinawan culture, traditions, cultural practices, religion, even the Okinawan language. In WW2 before the Battle of Okinawa; about 39,000 Okinawans were drafted (in some cases by force) into the Japanese army including children (the first battle of the war where the Japanese began drafting children of both genders), though the Okinawans wore regular clothing. Speaking in the Okinawan language was strictly forbidden, and those that spoke it were executed to suppress traitorous spying. Food was restricted to the army; resulting in a small famine to the Okinawans. During the battle: As you guys witness; the Japanese would use the Okinawan civilians as human bombs or shields. Those that attempted to escape (drafted or not) would be shot on sight. What you probably didn't know, was that the Japanese would outright kill Okinawan civilians to prevent them from being captured, or the belief that the civilians would betray the Japanese army. Finally, the Japanese would also indoctrinate the Okinawan civilians to kill themselves through propaganda of the Americans being savages that would show no mercy to Okinawans; among other false stories from anti-allied propaganda of WW2.
But yeah the Japanese Army in WW 2 were complete savage zealots in general with obviously some small exceptions.
The crimes committed by the soldier's on the ground (JIA not us army) were sponsored and encouraged by Japanese high command, and society which just like the Nazi's viewed the world through a racialist hierarchical lens. The ryukans and okinawans that were killed were not ethnic japanese from the mainland, and since it was for the pursuit of delaying that inevitable invasion, at the expense of 'lesser' peoples then it was seen as justified. That is exactly an answer to the question of 'what is worse, a nuclear bomb, or a grenade strapped to an infant'. There are no 'degrees' of warcrimes, because they all originate from the same place, same mentality, and same state/societal sponsored dehumanization of the 'enemy' whether real or imagined.
Analogy Okinawans and Japanese.
Sicilians and Italians
Wars have brought out the worse in humanity.
This is why the atomic bombs were dropped because of Okinawa. The US did not want to experience a land invasion that would have cost the US hundreds of thousands of lives and millions on the Japanese side including civilians. That's why the 500,000 purple hearts were made for the land invasion. Even worse for Japan, the Soviet Union joined the war and most likely would have invaded from the north of Japan. This is why HIroshima and Nagasaki were sacrificed to save millions of people the war probably would have lasted another year.
The original suicide bomb predates kamikazes by centuries. It was called the petard. Now...don't get me wrong. It wasn't necessarily actually MEANT to be a suicide bomb. But more often then not it ended up as one. The idea was that you would carry a big fat bomb up to a fortress wall, set it, light it, and then try and run away faster than a bald headed chicken fucker. But between all the incoming fire and the short fuses, you might just end up "hoisted by your own petard."
Guys seriously, *images removed out of respect* !? people need to see! Show them how horrible wars can be and how high the price. So we never (or finally learn) not to make the same mistakes!
Theoretically, "people" have already watched the series since, as the Normies have said on at least one occasions, this video is not a market substitute.
should watch generation kill
Watch Generation Kill next.
Nuclear bombs have caused thousands of civilian deaths, but I believe it was the decision that caused the least fatalities. An invasion of the Japanese islands would cause much more casualties and the war would last at least two more years. Unfortunately it was the best decision to end that madness.
If the resistance was brutal in iwo Jima and Okinawa, just imagine what it would have been like in an invasion of Japan's main islands. The death toll of military and civilians would probably have been 50 times higher. War sucks.
Please watch Generation Kill.
when Sledge is calling for mortar rounds hes calling in on grid coordinates. do it loing enough ya get good at it.
A lot of others have already pointed out the practical reason for using the bombs over a full blown invasion of Japan. But another thing worth mentioning is that by late 1945 the American people were war weary. Germany was vanquished; hundreds of thousands of Americans had already been killed; yet the war in the Pacific was still just as bloody as before. By summer of 45, Americans were tired of the overseas casualties, the rationing, and buying war bonds. So can you imagine the public backlash after theoretically hundreds of thousands of more American troops died in a 1-2 year invasion of Japan and the people later discovered (and it would have eventually came out) that US government that ENTIRE TIME had a weapon capable of ending the war before the invasion and DIDNT USE IT?!
The Allies was planning Operation Downfall which would be the invasion of mainland Japan. However the projected casualties for Part I Olympic would cost around 456,000 Americans including 109,000 killed and Part II Coronet were projected at 1.2 million American casualties and 267,000 deaths . On top of years of additional combat. Because of this President Truman authorized the dropping of the 2 Atomic Bombs to try to swiftly end the war, it wasn't just because of a political move.
Imperial Japan's zen spiritual philosophy and Jihadist nihilism sure do have a lot of suicidal methods in common.
People will continue to debate the decision to drop the 2 bombs on Japan for forever. It was one of two options: Invade mainland Japan, or drop the bomb. It is an undeniable fact that it is a logistical nightmare to invade Japan. An amphibious landing on that scale would dwarf D-Day, which was in itself a monster feat. Additionally, Japan had ordered every man, woman and child to defend to the death, with anything that can be used as a weapon. As you can see, it was horrific, and it was simply unacceptable to send hundreds of thousands of Americans into that and, if won, call it a "victory". To the freshly new President of a few months, Harry Truman saw the bomb as new, an option, and a possible answer. It was horrific, it changed the world forever, but it ended the war. Japan changed their ideology, and has since become a strong and friendly ally. Because of the events that took place, no nuke has ever been used again against humankind.
Now imagine if the Allies had to invade mainland Japan. It would have led to millions of casualties spanning at least a year. Compared to “the bombs”, what is more merciful?
Attempt #294: of trying to get The Normies to check out Symbionic-Titan or Primal.
Both made by Genndy Tartakovsky, the guy who made Samurai Jack.
Can you please react to the lady of heaven trailer? ❤️😃👍