To add onto non targeting removal effects I'd like to mention Olorin's searing light, from the holydays lotr set. It takes care of the biggest creature from each opponent and also has some nice free burn if you have enough instant and sorceries. I really like it in my Narset, enlightened exile deck because being able to use it twice feels super good!
Someone played Voja against me and it was awesome to see what it is cable of. He didn’t have much on the board but it definitely got me down to a very low life total in two-three turns after he summoned it. I think he got out Voja on turn three or four and it was a haste Voja. So double trouble. Definitely love the play style and I am going to build one myself. Thanks EDHREC for ideas of cards.
I wish Voja required you to control another wolf and elf for its ability to trigger on attack. While it would make Voja less powerful, it would better encourage a wolf/elf hybrid rather than trending Voja so aggressively towards Naya elf ball.
I think they should have reversed the benefits - get the counters from the wolves and the draw from the elves. Would make more sense to move and force you to run more mediocre wolves than just a million already-good elves.
@@NateFinch I think we'd still end up with an elf ball deck in that situation but just one more heavily focused on adding anthem effects stapled onto elves. Elves have so much support that, IMO, unless having out another wolf was required to get Voja's effect the deck still ends up as Naya elf ball if building for power.
@@MrGeoghagan yeah, I did veer off into the night, to create more wolves, and play a midrangy deck. Rather than as joey elegantly put it" edgar but naya"
@@W4llh4k Yeah kind of the same boat for me. I had a wolf deck built around Tolsimir Friend to Wolves and just converted that over to Voja. While not as powerful as Voja with nothing but elves, I love my wolves too much to go full on elves.
Hoping this series is still going just stumbled across it and as new player to mtg it’s great resource to help understand how the average deck page can lead you astray sometimes
Naya Charm is basically Cryptic Command at home, both can sleep, 3 damage to a creature is basically Gruul Unsummon, and regrowth is kinda draw a card, it just cant counter something but still a really good
8:37 speaking of the spirit of the deck I added all three tolsimir cards to this deck. Not because they’re amazing but because I wanted to keep some flavor from where Voja started in magic
@@thriftypsgr the fact that this card is "so powerful by itself that makes other ok/trash card looking good" is not an argument in favor of its balance, but *against* its "balance-ness." It has 5/5, 2 nice keywords, a lovely protection, a very likable, usually ready-to-go, often huge, _permanent_ *mass* pump and a reasonably decent card draw. All in a single card for *just* 5 mana. Not 7, nor more. No drawbacks, no costs, no restrictions. That's too much. Luckily he's not an Elf alongside being a Wolf
I'm glad you caught the need for evasion! This deck really struggles to close out if there's chump blockers in play, so cards like Bramblewood Paragon and Garruk's Uprising can really make the difference, but if your willing to branch out I'm also a fan of Pridemalkin, Gnarlid Colony, and Abzan Falconer. Anything that can load you up on elf tokens, like Ghaldrim's Ambush, Elvish Promenade, or Hunting Triad effectively scales much harder than most elfball decks: every token is an additional counter *and* attacker, so numbers quickly get out of control. I would disagree about not needing fixing, though. This deck wins by getting Voja out ASAP and that's generally not happening on turn 3/4 unless you have a rock or dork that taps for the color you need.
oh, thing I forgot to mention: Modal interaction cards *slap" in this deck, given how quickly you want to overrun the board and the need to draw the right answers. Dromoka's Command can do any combinations of prevent a boardwipe, fight a creature, or destroy a problem enchantment for the low price of GW and a single card. Other good examples are Atarka's Command or Archdruids Charm.
@@jonathonharris1758a lot of popular ramps spells can slow down your game plan, and general don't help you grab your other colors as effectively. the only rocks I would run would be Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, and Talisman of Conviction. They each provide a partial refund when they go down and provide fixing. Highest priority is dorks that fix but have other value, like Elvish Harbinger, Kami of Whispered Hopes and Paradise Druid.
Mutavault might be my favorite addition of yours to the deck Joey, its basically a library of Alexandria with voja in play plus its a heavily discounted gavony township at the same time. Really sweet 😄
If we're talking removal spells that become elves, have any of yall heard about Mercy Killing? It is a bonkers card from Lorwynn that could be even used on your own creatures that are about to eat a removal spell to make your board just as terrifying as it was previously.
Red has a lot of damage spells that can't be countered. The wording of ward is that the spell or effect is countered if you don't pay the cost, so you can circumvent it using these spells, or spells like them in other colors. lithomantic barrage neatly removes voja for a single red mana, for example.
I feel Uncivil unrest is there mainly for the riot, getting haste on your mana dorks and Voja changes the power of this deck dramatically. The counter dmg synergy is just the cherry on top. 👌
Adding one Elvish Champion is the greatest finisher in the deck btw. I have a similar list and trust me, not once my opponents thought that they die to forestwalking elves :D
Great video! I also agree with Joey’s sentiment here - while I normally try to throttle my decks somewhat to keep them more themed or fun, this was the first deck that I really let off the leash to be as fast and hard-hitting as possible. 👍😄
I would like to add the Elf Harbinger,which prepare the next draw by placing an elf on top of the library, and Kami of False Hope, which is Hardened Scales on a stick AND FIL the mana Anyway, the X counters on everybody is power creepy, it should have been either be: "put X counters on a single target" or "put a single counter on up to X creatures" .. or,just to push a bit more: "distribute X counters"
edit: It has 5/5, 2 nice keywords, a lovely protection, a very likable, usually ready-to-go, often huge, _permanent_ *mass* pump and a reasonably decent card draw. All in a single card for *just* 5 mana. Not 7, nor more. No drawbacks, no costs, no restrictions. That's too much. Luckily he's not an Elf alongside being a Wolf
While I agree that if you’re trying to up the power level of the deck getting rid of the wolves is probably correct I don’t think anyone is actually going to do that cause we know what commander players like 😂
Like, yeah removing the wolves of the first good wolf tribal commander, bar werewolves, is so ludacris. I disliked the video, since telling ppl to make elfball seems a bit to uninpiring to me. When wolves haven't gottem this much love, in like... FOREVER
An another cheaper way to make voja in trouble just focus him since the begining of the game. If you had flying creatures too don't forget to just swing on it. Even if elfes have bows is not so frequent to see a good elfes for the deck with the keyword reach or flying and it's pretty hard to block. For this main reason i had in my voja deck : Kodama of the west tree for ramping + give trample + reach,(he's just crazy on this deck) Abzaan falconer to give to all of my creature flying and make them hard to block but also good blocker again'st heavy flyer deck, card to grant to me to grab more quickly this card for this kind of deck (Wordly tutor, eldanari's call, trying the discovery with contest of claws) Choose some kind of versatile removal to work great with my legolas master archer to ping another creature. Even with that it's true it's hard to win when 3 or just 2 player play deck with many flyer, know you are a menace and focus you. But in the other part if they just sleep on it you just swing and kill easilly one or two player. And after that it's just snow ball. Other card i don't understand in the average build some people don't play Bamblewood paragon ?-? on the first preview on edhrec it was on each average build and now it's not the case why ? I mean she cost nothing play and just some peny and she's so destructive on the deck.
I found that Invigorating Hot Spring made this deck go a little faster. It might be a little redundant with Fires of Yavimaya, but it really cranked up the pressure when I played it.
To anyone thinking of building this, please be careful. Understand that YOU the player will have fun for a night or two but depending your friends / playgroup that might end quickly once they start teaming up. Your deck can be frail because of how commander centric // dependent it can feel at times. This is an insanely fun deck but you have to be able to take the heat as well as understand that your wins are permanent based and can be countered easily. All the best fellow Voya players 🫡
Joey! you did it! you made your own pun! Lycan subscribe! for blue players wanting to deal with Voja, Mocking Doppleganger, and Mystic reflection easily come to mind (mystic subdual is going to have to have the ward cost paid, though it'll shrink down Voja immediately and make the text box blank). Involving White, Blind Obedience buys you a turn, and Don't Move kills the other creatures when attacks are declared (same with sunblast angel). red and black don't care as much as others (blastphemous act and Chain reaction totally exist, same with Living End and the many other black board wipes)
@@MEver316 Thank you! I was losing my mind trying to figure out what he meant! I'm new to this channel and I was wondering if complaining about not being able to play Damnable Pact in non-black decks was some sort of inside joke I was not privy to.
I wish you could do Elesh Norn mother of machines upping the average. I made a giada deck following your video about her and it has been the best deck I've ever had. Thank you so much!
I feel that odric lunarch marshal could shine here making voja a really craterhoof behemoth. Yes it is not either a wolf or an elf, but making the board have vigilance and trample sounds insane powerful to me.
Taunting Elf mentioned! Let's goooooooo. I also like Unbreakable Formation, it's simple Indestructible and also you can spread counters and Vigilance, it's great. Lapse of Certainty is a nice counterspell on the standard 3-mana rate, and Fires of Yavimaya is both a great budget replacement and redundancy for Rhythm of the Wild. I made this sort of deck a while back for exactly that mentioned reason: wolves are good boys and elves are fun. Difference is that I actually don't like playing at a massively high level, and so my Voja deck, while it would be an intelligent choice to include Teferi's Protection and Galadriel's Dismissal due to literally every W deck at my LGS running the very fair and balanced card known as Farewell, instead runs actual wolves. Not even good ones like Anara or Pyreheart (though they're both in the Considering on my Moxfield list), but ones that actually use the colors like the First Strikers Fearless Pup, Scourge Wolf, and Tundra Wolves, or weird ones like Witchstalker or Immerwolf because I'm also running some Werewolves (namely Mayor of Avabruck and Tovolar, yes having wolf lords is redundant but it's fun to hit like a plane sometimes). Honestly, I even considered Timber Wolves and Dire Wolves because Banding is a funny mechanic and you might get a Plains out in Naya colors. Still threw in Radha though, that's basically just free mana. But it was little more than pulling up Scryfall and putting in "(type:wolf OR type:elf) commander:rgw" than anything properly designed. Also, honorable mention for my boy Turntimber Ranger with the changeling tech being thrown around. It's an inexpensive Elf card (it's a bit of mana, but lmao mana troubles in an elf deck) that makes a Wolf token if an Ally-type creature ETBs. ETB with changeling means it ETBs as an Ally, which makes the Wolf token ETB as an Ally, on a "may" ability, so you can make exactly as many wolves as cards you want to draw. Or alternatively, Warleader's Call to Impact Tremors people to death with a critical mass of good boys. That's really where I figured out that Voja is cracked, when you reach the point of card advantage where you have to actively consider not decking yourself out if you get Fog'd, which is always a consideration because I'm low-power and love Fogs.
I was super excited for this card when I seen it got announced. I bought a Hollowhenge Overlord for $4 and when it went up to like $15 the seller just refunded my order, so they could resell it for more. I hate TCGPlayer. 💀
Hmmm, damn. I was excited for this as the home for wolves and elves as support but you're right. If the goal is to stomp then elves are the main focus. That said, where does wolves find a good home? I want to build a fun wolves deck for one of my daughters and cats for the other one.
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about Maskwood Nexus. It's usually going to turn your elves into wolves, which isn't bad, but far too slow for what's effectively a 4 mana Shamanic Revelation in a deck that wants to go fast.
Hey! I'm new to Magic EDH. I was inspired to play by Rhystic Studies' video starring Gonti, Lord of Luxary. It would be awesome if you did an Upping the Average on Gonti!!!!!
I want this card so bad. I have a fun bant elf deck with Galadriel, Light of Valinor, and Voja would be fun to hot swap out and play with red instead of blue.
I am afraid to admit that I think WotC knew *exactly* what they were doing when they designed Voja. Seriously POWERFUL commander even went built basically. Going to the be the bane of many casual tables.
One card I don’t see enough is Delina Wild mage for Voja. She can target Voja when she attacks and make a non legendary token copy of Voja, allowing us to go even crazier with multiple Voja and can get even more explosive with dice rolls over 15.
Delina puts the token in tapped and attacking. It is never declared as an attacker, and therefore never triggers. And the tokens all exile afterwards. You will be adding another Wolf to your board for the original Voja's trigger to see, but you will not be getting multiple Voja triggers per attack this way.
Myriad works the same. You won’t get attack triggers from the newly created Vojas, but will draw extra cards from the original Voja seeing the new wolves you’ve created. If you have a way to keep the tokens around then yes you will later get all the triggers on each Voja.
This is actually my biggest beef with the deck. I love the idea of a wolf and elf deck with Voja at the helm, but it's SO strong that even a budget deck wrecks people. I kinda want to rule 0 a powered-down version that's more fair.
@@NateFinch I think the powered down version is honestly just running a bunch of wolves and only a few elves. The elves make the deck much more powerful.
Its aggro baby. I love making them control and combo player's cry. Hey, at least it is a quick death. We don't shut anyone off, nor does it take us 20 minutes figuring out how to win!
I'm not "above" this commander by any means, but I would just say for those that are excited to build this, expect to be instantly removed. And if people don't have targeted removal, player removal usually is the Plan B. Just expect it, I'm not assuming you will complain about the attention by any means, but this just can't be left alone.
Right? I've alwats hated these archenemy commanders. The only one having some kind of fun is the person playing it, until the rest of the table starts to gangin'up on him, so they finally CAN play the game 🤣
Run it as intended. If people have a hard time with the ward, there are ways around it. Notably, if your spells can't be countered (such as Void Rend), they go right past the ward trigger.
There’s enough salty decks out there now that everyone probably has at least one made. Your sheoldred, koma, toxrill, yuriko, isshen, shalai and hallar, lathril and so many more. Instead of being salty, just add onto the salt.
As a person who loves wolves and has been building wolf and werewolf decks for year....im going to ignore all ofnthis advice and stuff in as many fun wolves as I can
I am starting to feel this format is losing some of its charm with how often folk push into the ideal of truly optimizing. Not massively, but it's starting to feel a lot more like the casual side is being stripped down to just CEDH-lite at times. Still, I do like this breakdowns and this series despite that feeling. Especially since I am so rarely drawn to new Commanders that it's just kind of a neat informational thing on what these other cards can do that I've more or less skipped over.
As always, very good swaps. But also, i feel like these episodes aren't as warranted on new commanders. It's a new commander so it's going to be a mess at first, let the community figure out and streamline the average deck. Then, when it's older i think an upping the average makes more sense :) Also, i feel like you're hand motions in these videos feel very forced. I'm sorry. I can imagine how you feel it needs more movement to not feel stale when you're alone in the screen. But it's not natural and everyone can tell :/ you don't do this in the podcast, gameplay episodes or when someone meets you in person, do you? I appreciate natural ways of talking more (even though it's pre written) :)
Voja is just the newest Miirym or Urza where you would have to be incompetent to build a bad deck around them. These are basically CEDH only or training wheel decks for new players.
Miirym is an incredibly powerful casual commander, but certainly not a CEDH one, Voja falls into the same camp, most likely (I personally don't play CEDH, but those decks care about mana efficiency, combo and control elements more than anything else, Miirym falls outside of that spectrum entirely).
@@Nr4747 Thus the OR not AND. I was referring in general to certain Commanders that you should really only see in EDH if you are the type of person that likes to play on Easy mode or where everyone agreed to have no limits on deck power. No critical thinking required, just a “hulk smash” kind of OP deck.
Forcing you to sacrifice Voja is such an easy way to beat Voja, it's not that overpowered. There are countless better commanders. I know I have a Voja deck.
Voja is so good he needs to spawn the “Lowering the average” series XD
I came by just to say the same.
You can add Yuriko to that list.
This idea should be an April's Fool video.
Could call it FUNraising
I love the explanation of how to play against Voja decks at the end. It adds another different dimension to the videos. Keep up the good work 😊
It's been so long since we have gotten a Upping the Average video. I forgot what it was a thing.
I love the Upping the Average series, we should have it more often.
To add onto non targeting removal effects I'd like to mention Olorin's searing light, from the holydays lotr set. It takes care of the biggest creature from each opponent and also has some nice free burn if you have enough instant and sorceries.
I really like it in my Narset, enlightened exile deck because being able to use it twice feels super good!
Dang, Jodah was so good that they were able to split him into Voja, and Pantlaza, and both are still a bit much.
I laughed so hard because I built all three of those XDDDD
So happy to see another upping the average! Its my favorite deck building series, but omg this fella did not need his average upped
lmao, I just got called out in real time
I've missed upping the average. Glad to see it back!
Someone played Voja against me and it was awesome to see what it is cable of. He didn’t have much on the board but it definitely got me down to a very low life total in two-three turns after he summoned it. I think he got out Voja on turn three or four and it was a haste Voja. So double trouble. Definitely love the play style and I am going to build one myself. Thanks EDHREC for ideas of cards.
Can I just say, thankyou for pronouncing Voja correctly 😂
A budget card I added is Maze of Ith. If we don’t have any good attacks with Voja, we can maze him and still get our attack trigger in a pinch.
Great timing, I am building this deck right now. Got it as my promo during the prerelease.
I wish Voja required you to control another wolf and elf for its ability to trigger on attack. While it would make Voja less powerful, it would better encourage a wolf/elf hybrid rather than trending Voja so aggressively towards Naya elf ball.
I think they should have reversed the benefits - get the counters from the wolves and the draw from the elves. Would make more sense to move and force you to run more mediocre wolves than just a million already-good elves.
@@NateFinch I think we'd still end up with an elf ball deck in that situation but just one more heavily focused on adding anthem effects stapled onto elves. Elves have so much support that, IMO, unless having out another wolf was required to get Voja's effect the deck still ends up as Naya elf ball if building for power.
@@MrGeoghagan yeah, I did veer off into the night, to create more wolves, and play a midrangy deck. Rather than as joey elegantly put it" edgar but naya"
@@W4llh4k Yeah kind of the same boat for me. I had a wolf deck built around Tolsimir Friend to Wolves and just converted that over to Voja. While not as powerful as Voja with nothing but elves, I love my wolves too much to go full on elves.
@@MrGeoghagan I literally did the same thing and it IS hard to pull wolves from it but hey if you play in a casual group keep the wolves and have fun!
Hoping this series is still going just stumbled across it and as new player to mtg it’s great resource to help understand how the average deck page can lead you astray sometimes
Naya Charm is basically Cryptic Command at home, both can sleep, 3 damage to a creature is basically Gruul Unsummon, and regrowth is kinda draw a card, it just cant counter something but still a really good
8:37 speaking of the spirit of the deck I added all three tolsimir cards to this deck. Not because they’re amazing but because I wanted to keep some flavor from where Voja started in magic
This is lovely, actually. Not competitive maybe, but lovely. Kudos
@@marcoottina654 Voja makes his friends look good, even the high cmc cost gets me a wolf and an elf. I love this commander.
@@thriftypsgr the fact that this card is "so powerful by itself that makes other ok/trash card looking good" is not an argument in favor of its balance, but *against* its "balance-ness."
It has 5/5, 2 nice keywords, a lovely protection, a very likable, usually ready-to-go, often huge, _permanent_ *mass* pump and a reasonably decent card draw. All in a single card for *just* 5 mana. Not 7, nor more.
No drawbacks, no costs, no restrictions.
That's too much.
Luckily he's not an Elf alongside being a Wolf
As much as I like to see these videos it would be nice to see an upping the average on a commander that is powerful but not played often.
I'm glad you caught the need for evasion! This deck really struggles to close out if there's chump blockers in play, so cards like Bramblewood Paragon and Garruk's Uprising can really make the difference, but if your willing to branch out I'm also a fan of Pridemalkin, Gnarlid Colony, and Abzan Falconer.
Anything that can load you up on elf tokens, like Ghaldrim's Ambush, Elvish Promenade, or Hunting Triad effectively scales much harder than most elfball decks: every token is an additional counter *and* attacker, so numbers quickly get out of control.
I would disagree about not needing fixing, though. This deck wins by getting Voja out ASAP and that's generally not happening on turn 3/4 unless you have a rock or dork that taps for the color you need.
oh, thing I forgot to mention: Modal interaction cards *slap" in this deck, given how quickly you want to overrun the board and the need to draw the right answers. Dromoka's Command can do any combinations of prevent a boardwipe, fight a creature, or destroy a problem enchantment for the low price of GW and a single card. Other good examples are Atarka's Command or Archdruids Charm.
When it comes to having green and gaining ramp via spells, how many rocks would think to add? Curious cause I am building this:)
@@jonathonharris1758a lot of popular ramps spells can slow down your game plan, and general don't help you grab your other colors as effectively. the only rocks I would run would be Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, and Talisman of Conviction. They each provide a partial refund when they go down and provide fixing. Highest priority is dorks that fix but have other value, like Elvish Harbinger, Kami of Whispered Hopes and Paradise Druid.
Been obsessed over this brew! You nailed this one on the head sir. Only comment….feed the pack….trade a beefy elf for hella card draw one turn.
Mutavault might be my favorite addition of yours to the deck Joey, its basically a library of Alexandria with voja in play plus its a heavily discounted gavony township at the same time. Really sweet 😄
If we're talking removal spells that become elves, have any of yall heard about Mercy Killing? It is a bonkers card from Lorwynn that could be even used on your own creatures that are about to eat a removal spell to make your board just as terrifying as it was previously.
Red has a lot of damage spells that can't be countered. The wording of ward is that the spell or effect is countered if you don't pay the cost, so you can circumvent it using these spells, or spells like them in other colors.
lithomantic barrage neatly removes voja for a single red mana, for example.
I feel Uncivil unrest is there mainly for the riot, getting haste on your mana dorks and Voja changes the power of this deck dramatically.
The counter dmg synergy is just the cherry on top. 👌
Adding one Elvish Champion is the greatest finisher in the deck btw. I have a similar list and trust me, not once my opponents thought that they die to forestwalking elves :D
I was just thinking about elvish champion too when reviewing the list because the deck already runs Yavimaya which combos with it 😂
Great video! I also agree with Joey’s sentiment here - while I normally try to throttle my decks somewhat to keep them more themed or fun, this was the first deck that I really let off the leash to be as fast and hard-hitting as possible. 👍😄
I would like to add the Elf Harbinger,which prepare the next draw by placing an elf on top of the library, and Kami of False Hope, which is Hardened Scales on a stick AND FIL the mana
Anyway, the X counters on everybody is power creepy, it should have been either be: "put X counters on a single target" or "put a single counter on up to X creatures"
.. or,just to push a bit more: "distribute X counters"
edit:
It has 5/5, 2 nice keywords, a lovely protection, a very likable, usually ready-to-go, often huge, _permanent_ *mass* pump and a reasonably decent card draw. All in a single card for *just* 5 mana. Not 7, nor more.
No drawbacks, no costs, no restrictions.
That's too much.
Luckily he's not an Elf alongside being a Wolf
I love these upping the average videos so much I wish we could get more
While I agree that if you’re trying to up the power level of the deck getting rid of the wolves is probably correct I don’t think anyone is actually going to do that cause we know what commander players like 😂
Like, yeah removing the wolves of the first good wolf tribal commander, bar werewolves, is so ludacris. I disliked the video, since telling ppl to make elfball seems a bit to uninpiring to me. When wolves haven't gottem this much love, in like... FOREVER
An another cheaper way to make voja in trouble just focus him since the begining of the game. If you had flying creatures too don't forget to just swing on it. Even if elfes have bows is not so frequent to see a good elfes for the deck with the keyword reach or flying and it's pretty hard to block.
For this main reason i had in my voja deck :
Kodama of the west tree for ramping + give trample + reach,(he's just crazy on this deck)
Abzaan falconer to give to all of my creature flying and make them hard to block but also good blocker again'st heavy flyer deck,
card to grant to me to grab more quickly this card for this kind of deck (Wordly tutor, eldanari's call, trying the discovery with contest of claws)
Choose some kind of versatile removal to work great with my legolas master archer to ping another creature.
Even with that it's true it's hard to win when 3 or just 2 player play deck with many flyer, know you are a menace and focus you. But in the other part if they just sleep on it you just swing and kill easilly one or two player. And after that it's just snow ball.
Other card i don't understand in the average build some people don't play Bamblewood paragon ?-? on the first preview on edhrec it was on each average build and now it's not the case why ? I mean she cost nothing play and just some peny and she's so destructive on the deck.
I love Upping the Average, do more of it!
I found that Invigorating Hot Spring made this deck go a little faster. It might be a little redundant with Fires of Yavimaya, but it really cranked up the pressure when I played it.
To anyone thinking of building this, please be careful. Understand that YOU the player will have fun for a night or two but depending your friends / playgroup that might end quickly once they start teaming up. Your deck can be frail because of how commander centric // dependent it can feel at times. This is an insanely fun deck but you have to be able to take the heat as well as understand that your wins are permanent based and can be countered easily. All the best fellow Voya players 🫡
for more haste enablers I love using Rhythm of the Wild and Invigorating Hot Springs, they are great
Joey! you did it! you made your own pun! Lycan subscribe!
for blue players wanting to deal with Voja, Mocking Doppleganger, and Mystic reflection easily come to mind (mystic subdual is going to have to have the ward cost paid, though it'll shrink down Voja immediately and make the text box blank). Involving White, Blind Obedience buys you a turn, and Don't Move kills the other creatures when attacks are declared (same with sunblast angel).
red and black don't care as much as others (blastphemous act and Chain reaction totally exist, same with Living End and the many other black board wipes)
15:21, 15:37
Damnable... pact..? The black draw spell?
I think he meant Damning Verdict? He was talking about removal and that's quite expensive now
@@MEver316 That makes sense
@@MEver316 Thank you! I was losing my mind trying to figure out what he meant! I'm new to this channel and I was wondering if complaining about not being able to play Damnable Pact in non-black decks was some sort of inside joke I was not privy to.
I wish you could do Elesh Norn mother of machines upping the average.
I made a giada deck following your video about her and it has been the best deck I've ever had.
Thank you so much!
I feel that odric lunarch marshal could shine here making voja a really craterhoof behemoth. Yes it is not either a wolf or an elf, but making the board have vigilance and trample sounds insane powerful to me.
Would love to see an upping the average on Hylda of the Icy Crown
I had to cut All Will be One from the Voja deck I'm building. I'm just not running enough red to justify the 2 red pips.
Taunting Elf mentioned! Let's goooooooo. I also like Unbreakable Formation, it's simple Indestructible and also you can spread counters and Vigilance, it's great. Lapse of Certainty is a nice counterspell on the standard 3-mana rate, and Fires of Yavimaya is both a great budget replacement and redundancy for Rhythm of the Wild.
I made this sort of deck a while back for exactly that mentioned reason: wolves are good boys and elves are fun. Difference is that I actually don't like playing at a massively high level, and so my Voja deck, while it would be an intelligent choice to include Teferi's Protection and Galadriel's Dismissal due to literally every W deck at my LGS running the very fair and balanced card known as Farewell, instead runs actual wolves. Not even good ones like Anara or Pyreheart (though they're both in the Considering on my Moxfield list), but ones that actually use the colors like the First Strikers Fearless Pup, Scourge Wolf, and Tundra Wolves, or weird ones like Witchstalker or Immerwolf because I'm also running some Werewolves (namely Mayor of Avabruck and Tovolar, yes having wolf lords is redundant but it's fun to hit like a plane sometimes). Honestly, I even considered Timber Wolves and Dire Wolves because Banding is a funny mechanic and you might get a Plains out in Naya colors. Still threw in Radha though, that's basically just free mana. But it was little more than pulling up Scryfall and putting in "(type:wolf OR type:elf) commander:rgw" than anything properly designed.
Also, honorable mention for my boy Turntimber Ranger with the changeling tech being thrown around. It's an inexpensive Elf card (it's a bit of mana, but lmao mana troubles in an elf deck) that makes a Wolf token if an Ally-type creature ETBs. ETB with changeling means it ETBs as an Ally, which makes the Wolf token ETB as an Ally, on a "may" ability, so you can make exactly as many wolves as cards you want to draw. Or alternatively, Warleader's Call to Impact Tremors people to death with a critical mass of good boys.
That's really where I figured out that Voja is cracked, when you reach the point of card advantage where you have to actively consider not decking yourself out if you get Fog'd, which is always a consideration because I'm low-power and love Fogs.
I was super excited for this card when I seen it got announced. I bought a Hollowhenge Overlord for $4 and when it went up to like $15 the seller just refunded my order, so they could resell it for more. I hate TCGPlayer. 💀
Hmmm, damn. I was excited for this as the home for wolves and elves as support but you're right. If the goal is to stomp then elves are the main focus. That said, where does wolves find a good home? I want to build a fun wolves deck for one of my daughters and cats for the other one.
I love these videos! When is the next one?
I like how it takes a true mtg fan to pronounce the name correctly
My personal favorite add to this deck is Eladamari, Lord of Leaves. It’s not exactly budget though. Haha!
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about Maskwood Nexus. It's usually going to turn your elves into wolves, which isn't bad, but far too slow for what's effectively a 4 mana Shamanic Revelation in a deck that wants to go fast.
aren't the surveil lands just better than the scry lands in a green deck?
Hey! I'm new to Magic EDH. I was inspired to play by Rhystic Studies' video starring Gonti, Lord of Luxary. It would be awesome if you did an Upping the Average on Gonti!!!!!
Naya Charm is the best Charm. Hands down.
Crazy how the prices jumped. I bought hollowhenge overlord when it was like $3
I want this card so bad. I have a fun bant elf deck with Galadriel, Light of Valinor, and Voja would be fun to hot swap out and play with red instead of blue.
I am afraid to admit that I think WotC knew *exactly* what they were doing when they designed Voja. Seriously POWERFUL commander even went built basically. Going to the be the bane of many casual tables.
Voja would be good at 5 mana for a trample vigilance ward 3. Then they stapled “god of elves and wolves” to him.
Craterhoof Behemoth indeed. My Voja deck is named Craterwoof Howly-mouth.
See you at magiccon Chicago
They are good dogs, Brent.
Love the series can you pls make one with sovereign Okinec Ahau
Heeey requesting Stella Lee, she is so much fun
Requesting Eriette of the Charmed Apple.
One card I don’t see enough is Delina Wild mage for Voja. She can target Voja when she attacks and make a non legendary token copy of Voja, allowing us to go even crazier with multiple Voja and can get even more explosive with dice rolls over 15.
Delina puts the token in tapped and attacking. It is never declared as an attacker, and therefore never triggers. And the tokens all exile afterwards. You will be adding another Wolf to your board for the original Voja's trigger to see, but you will not be getting multiple Voja triggers per attack this way.
@@Arvensa then how about with myriad like blade of selves?
@@Arvensa and what about the other copied tokens, when you hit 15+ for the trigger and they stay in subsequent turns?
Myriad works the same. You won’t get attack triggers from the newly created Vojas, but will draw extra cards from the original Voja seeing the new wolves you’ve created. If you have a way to keep the tokens around then yes you will later get all the triggers on each Voja.
I built this with wolves and elves. I always build for flavor!
I've been saying to people the Wolves are redundant and unnecessary. I'd still keep the guy that gives your commander Indestructible.
One of the few decks I've built recently and legitimately feel bad using 😔
This is actually my biggest beef with the deck. I love the idea of a wolf and elf deck with Voja at the helm, but it's SO strong that even a budget deck wrecks people. I kinda want to rule 0 a powered-down version that's more fair.
@@NateFinch I think the powered down version is honestly just running a bunch of wolves and only a few elves. The elves make the deck much more powerful.
I wonder any chance of a Syrix the flame Carrier upping the average?
I'd love to see a video for commander mustard
Its aggro baby. I love making them control and combo player's cry. Hey, at least it is a quick death. We don't shut anyone off, nor does it take us 20 minutes figuring out how to win!
Actually combo wins against aggro. You win against control.
Would you make an Upping the Average about the First Sliver? :)
Voja-shalai is such a beautiful disaster
I'm not "above" this commander by any means, but I would just say for those that are excited to build this, expect to be instantly removed. And if people don't have targeted removal, player removal usually is the Plan B. Just expect it, I'm not assuming you will complain about the attention by any means, but this just can't be left alone.
Right? I've alwats hated these archenemy commanders. The only one having some kind of fun is the person playing it, until the rest of the table starts to gangin'up on him, so they finally CAN play the game 🤣
Did you just say hits like a plane?! In front of my pet eagle, Tommy Freedom?
How dare you, sir.
#neverforget
I think I'm gonna start running new mkm removal like slice from the shadows to get past this ward nonsense
I do want to build this commander but I might house-rule remove the ward 3. It'd still be very strong but slightly more likely to be removed
Run it as intended.
If people have a hard time with the ward, there are ways around it.
Notably, if your spells can't be countered (such as Void Rend), they go right past the ward trigger.
I think insult/injury should be played in this deck, just for messing with peoples fog plans
I really like these videos but is like to see older commanders.
And yet they couldn't give my boy Kaust Haste... :(
I'm not sure $200 is very budget? I really wanna play voja though.
Nah Pyroheart Wolf has won me games, my opponents had trouble blocking all my huge elves aswell.
Ha! Dog food for thought... nice
Errant and Giada UTA?
Davonte Orchard
Local word from your Red player: the best kind of removal is player removal
Why does this commander make me salty before playing against it?
If I see this thing on the table I think I reach for my Sheoldred the Apocalypse deck and find Lethal Vapors as fast as possible.
And to all those Voja players… don’t gas light others and tell them this deck isn’t sweaty. It can’t not be sweaty.
There’s enough salty decks out there now that everyone probably has at least one made. Your sheoldred, koma, toxrill, yuriko, isshen, shalai and hallar, lathril and so many more. Instead of being salty, just add onto the salt.
@@hiddenleaf414 touché. I see this coming and I know it’s going to be sweaty so I grab something sweaty.
Effertz Plaza
How long has it been since an Upping the Average vid?
Over a month, so approximately 400 sets ago
@@EDHRECastAnd a ton of SECRET LAIR ALERTS!
How, just HOW were bramblewood paragon and taunting elf NOT on yhe average list? Wtf?
Buster Forges
Baby Knolls
I don't know why so many run Druid of the Anima when skyshroud Elf is MUCH better IMO
At the beginning of the video, you said: "elves or wolves, which one to choose?" I said, WHY NOT SHAPESHIFTERS?
Classic elf ball
As a person who loves wolves and has been building wolf and werewolf decks for year....im going to ignore all ofnthis advice and stuff in as many fun wolves as I can
Jessy Meadows
I am starting to feel this format is losing some of its charm with how often folk push into the ideal of truly optimizing. Not massively, but it's starting to feel a lot more like the casual side is being stripped down to just CEDH-lite at times. Still, I do like this breakdowns and this series despite that feeling. Especially since I am so rarely drawn to new Commanders that it's just kind of a neat informational thing on what these other cards can do that I've more or less skipped over.
As always, very good swaps. But also, i feel like these episodes aren't as warranted on new commanders. It's a new commander so it's going to be a mess at first, let the community figure out and streamline the average deck. Then, when it's older i think an upping the average makes more sense :)
Also, i feel like you're hand motions in these videos feel very forced. I'm sorry. I can imagine how you feel it needs more movement to not feel stale when you're alone in the screen. But it's not natural and everyone can tell :/ you don't do this in the podcast, gameplay episodes or when someone meets you in person, do you? I appreciate natural ways of talking more (even though it's pre written) :)
Voja is just the newest Miirym or Urza where you would have to be incompetent to build a bad deck around them. These are basically CEDH only or training wheel decks for new players.
Miirym is an incredibly powerful casual commander, but certainly not a CEDH one, Voja falls into the same camp, most likely (I personally don't play CEDH, but those decks care about mana efficiency, combo and control elements more than anything else, Miirym falls outside of that spectrum entirely).
@@Nr4747 Thus the OR not AND. I was referring in general to certain Commanders that you should really only see in EDH if you are the type of person that likes to play on Easy mode or where everyone agreed to have no limits on deck power.
No critical thinking required, just a “hulk smash” kind of OP deck.
Forcing you to sacrifice Voja is such an easy way to beat Voja, it's not that overpowered. There are countless better commanders. I know I have a Voja deck.
Cummerata Views
Voja? More like VoNo
I don’t think Voja needed any help to be better, this card is so busted
I dislike this commander. Its way too powerful with no downside.