Do cables matter? | In the Shop Episode #41 | Thomann
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2019
- Rob and Andy on a not very scientific journey comparing the cheapest cable at Thomann with the most expensive one ;) Do cables matter in the end? What do you think?
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Видеоклипы
1:28 close your eyes and enjoy the conversation
Thanks
Thanks
Nice
thank you.
That was on purpose had to be
There is definitely a sonic difference.... the more expensive cable adds the sound of people snickering because you spent $400 on a cable.
Exactly. It's the quality of the shielding and quality diameter of the copper inside that counts, along with the efficacy of the soldering and connectors. Greater rigidity combined with improper handling and a core can fracture even more easily. A cosmetic shroud covering the outside? Add it yourself for .20c if it's that important to you. o.O
Like guitars, a quality construct with decent components e.g. Harley Benton, that is good enough that is ceases to be the weakest link for the overwhelming majority. Beyond that, return on spend - I won't call it investment, is exponentially abysmal. Those of us who actually had to work to achieve what we have prefer to avoid pandering to price gouging by some big name brand's CEO out to achieve an annual record profitability bonus sufficient to acquire his fifth palatial mansion.
That sonic difference is not effected by quality. No sound is same always, so in guitars and other instruments, when people change cables even to identical one, you will hear slight difference even when they play exactly the same notes etc. Only audible difference there can be, is in volume (as one guy stated), but not really on anything else.
Hate to break it to you, but unless you are chain linking multiple outboard gear to your mixer or whatever, only difference expensive cables brings to you is that they can be durable as fuck and next to impossible to break by accident or even on purpose. Also they isolate static interference better and sound can be bit louder due to signal being stronger.
Reason audio engineers and artists use expensive cables, is because they can take more abuse and you can chain link more outboard gear together to single link etc. Of course there is a difference between expensive cables and cheap ones, but the difference is basically in strength of the signal and durability rather than over all audio quality, and that's between all cables of any price range.
Great idea adding the audio spectrum analyzer at the right-bottom corner! It is very useful to backup what your ears perceive.
A couple of suggestions.
1- For this type of A-B tests it is really useful to have sample A and sample B side by side.. if you have other sounds in between the test is pretty much useless unless the difference is radical (scrolling back and forth from the user side is a PITA).
2- It is very likely this type of very expensive gear is meant for studio use, I don't think a live setting recording sample with several points in your chain helps.
Cheap cables use to be more focused with fewer bottom end. You'll see the difference in the graph (as it is there to assist your hearing, not to replace it)
I recently read about Stevie Ray Vaughan's tech giving him a high quality efficient cable one time... Stevie gave it back to him and said "It lets too much electricity through". I think that this means that it let too much treble through. Stevie's idol, Hendrix, famously used coiled cables because it reduced treble. This obsession with cable efficiency is much like being obsessed with getting the exact gear that you favorite guitar hero uses... I know this because I am guilty of falling into these traps myself.
After you've played guitar for 10 or 20 years you finally realize that all this hype is ridiculous and is merely a distraction from doing the real work, the only work that WILL make you sound amazing.... which is practicing.
I recently was STUNNED to learn that the solos in the Journey song "Stone in Love" were recorded on a cheap practice amp because it cut and sat in the mix right where the producer needed it to.
"I can make any rig talk" - Neal Schon
Gear obsession is a lie. The sooner we get over it, the sooner we will get better.
Though, now that we are in 2019, I will point out that my personal opinion is that there is no substitute for a quality tube amp (and it doesn't need to be more than 18 watts either).
The expensive cable, costs moe than most HB guitars!
You're just Benton causing trouble, aren't ya?
@@meadish that was quite a solid pun, I think that we can safely that if this was a competition, you would certainly have took... *the lead*
I now use only Award Session Cleartone Yellowtab cables. They are top quality cables for not much money. When I first bought one it immediately made all my guitars sound significantly better, really good in fact so I soon replaced all my old cables (some of which were meant to be quite good) with them. Most important one which needs to be GOOD is the one that plugs into your guitar; if you only get one decent cable get that one.
No thank you.
I'm fine with Fender Professional Cables.
Excellent quality and very reasonably priced.
You gotta use an A/B switcher to get instantaneous change, else too hard for ears to perceive any difference. The Vovox cable definitely sweetened up the treble tones on my Nocaster and made it less ice-picky. So worth having a Vovox for special occasions.
Shit I play through Vovox at home
Vovox cables make a huge difference when you use it between the head and the cab.
And I just want to point out that, a better test would have been to plug directly in the amp without anything in between...
Scientifically speaking, cable components absolutely matter and make a difference, which is measurable. However, not all those differences are immediately detectable to every set of human ears, especially without being played side by side. Only takes a moment for your ear to "forget" anyway, and without a reference to something "better" or "worse", most peoples ears don't have an expectation and adjust quickly. Often we listen with our eyes, anyway. ;)
Bottom line: most people don't think about the cable they use, they just need it to work and be reliable. So play the cable you can afford and let your guitar do the talking. Nothing has to be the absolute best to be usable or inspire you.
Well said!
I compared 4 high end name brand cables = one of them was a Vovox .
After playing guitar lines on medium dirty '60s Fender Pro Reverb .... and this took about
4 rotations of the cables being swapped around , I realized it really was more to do with how the guitar
and amp responded . With the other cables my right hand was more aggressive to make the amp
break up where the Vovox cable made my right hand flow better across the strings . If you're
looking for tone change George L's have a sheen on the top end ( some people might not like) ,
they are very low capacitance cables .
What was the bluesy song played around 3 min? The driven one
What guitar is that? Never seen one. :-p
I have many different cables, also different Vovoxes from different aeras (they are improving constantly). I know them from the beginning, because they are Swissmade and I'm living in the same town. Anyway, they all sound great or should I say different? Surely it's one of the best cable, built with best components you can find. But: I also love my very old, 30 years old, selfsoldered Zeck cable with Neutrik plugs. I use different cabels for different guitar and amp combinations. Fact is, the cable is a capacitor and it shapes the sound. Try it out, you can hear it. And last thing: the Vovox cables have a right direction to plug in, you can hear the difference, when you plug it turned around! By the way: This one is much cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper) and much more flexibel, it works also for stages (the one here in the video is just for non-stagework and the say, it's very stiff) www.vovox.ch/de/professional-audio/produkte/sonorus/instrumentenkabel/
Cool riff Rob!
the innuendos killed me
I could hear no difference on headphones,. But with the rigid Vovoxcabel there could be wonderful Mr Beans moments: Switching an amp on from the distance and trying to insert it to the input from 2 meters away.
Oh this is brilliant. I love this. I’m going to do this!!! Watch out a future “In the shop” with me doing that!
//Andy
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses you can put the blame on me, if the comments are too harsh....
Going back and forth between different parts of the video I can absolutely hear a difference between the sound with the cheap cables and the sound with the crazy expensive cables. The Vovox cables add more clarity to the tone, it's more defined and more rounded than with the cheaper cables. That said, I'd say the difference is probably 10-15% in quality and you could probably get close to that sound with a) some tweaking on the amp/pedals or b) a good quality cable for about 20 bucks. So over 300 euros per cable is not justifiable in my opinion.
So which cable would you rather being stolen or lost taking out to a gig ?
Should have played with a strat, without humbuckers!
1:10 i had to seriously focus on the subject beeing cables... 🍆 #Andyscableismuchthickerthanmine 😂
I’ll stay with my Wire World cable. Thanks for introducing the expensive cables.🌞
I had a horizon braided cable and a Spectraflex “Rock” braided cable and straight into an overdriven amp the Spectraflex sounded way crunchier and the harmonics just popped. That was in 1995. Now I have tons of cables and can’t hear a difference between them. Now I buy cables to have different colors so I can see what’s what on stage or in the studio. Hmmmm?
You should check out Planet Waves cables. Some models feature interchangeable colored plastic pieces on the connectors.
New cables need to burn in as well after a while they start to sound better. I know this from been in to hi end hifi for years
Fake news. 😂
I dont hear a difference but i like the feel of the cable
However, im a bit confused on shielded vs unshielded. Which one should i get and does it matter?
I need vocal, guitar and instrument cables
Thanks
Shielded for your instrument and pedal BEFORE your Amp. Between the amp and the Cab, you need unshielded cables (Speaker cables).
Holy crap. Did Rob get Neuralink?
The effect of my Neutrik Timber plug is way easier to hear with a Strat as with a humbucker LP - the low resonance frequency and "immunity" to humm makes it not as picky with cables as a single coil with a good resonance.
That guitar!
Did not see or hear a difference. And that rigidity would be a pain in the rear trying to coil it into a guitarcase/pedalboard. And I've forgot/lost more cables than I've broken. Does that even bend into the jack if wrapped behind the strap?..
Decades ago I discovered expensive guitar cables. I thought it was nonsense by greedy people. But never actually tried good cables. Then I stumbled over an ad of a cable company. It featured a musician I know personally. I still assumed it was BS. But because of his endorsement I ordered the cable to do an A/B. After plugging it in - awesome. The difference day and night. It was just like another league of sound quality. Just by replacing my instrument cable. Then I did some research, bought some reasonably priced good quality cable to replace my 4 cable method wiring and was wowed again. My 2 Cents: Cables matter, a lot that is. But there are really good cables out there for a couple of bucks. Spending more didn’t put me in a new league. There might still be a subtle 1% sound difference. But that wouldn’t make me spend 10x as much. Turning an EQ knob would most probably do the same in that case.
Bet it's a bugger to cut back and solder if it breaks. Buy the cheap one, some tools and a soldering iron for less and have a cable for life (although it may get a bit short).
2:55 what is this song?
THe vovox cables that you used were HP cables aren't they ?
what about wireless system vs cables?
"andy's cable is much thicker than mine"
I think the biggest difference would be in the shielding, where the the expensive one would only make sense if you need to run it across a lot of electronic interference.
perhaps the better cable sounds better in an environment where there is a lot of noise..but perhaps at Thomann the electrical system is designed and built to have little noise..hence no noticeable difference
The thing is, it's not a data cable, it's just electrical signal transfer so there shouldn't be any discernable difference. There may be less distortion in the signal if you put it into a oscilloscope but it will mostly come down to build quality
A whole lot of money for something really close to a simple "TV antenna coaxial cable" ... which is actually the kind of cables that I use to wire my studio for all what is mono cables, as it's super cheap, and nearly no tone alteration even for long cables (10m and above ... I don't run very long cables anyway).
Rob is asking: " So, do you wanna play the guitar?" ...but plays the guitar himself!?!?! LOL
I think it's a matter of durability
oh, and where the hell is the GOLD plug on the more expensive one! :D
Gibson is still making authentically flimsy headstocks and I'm ok with that but THIS.IS.UNFORGIVABLE.
silver is the best conductor , after that is copper and gold comes in 3rd place
The Vovox sounds way more full and powerfull. But the price is insane......................
Nothing wrong with cheap cables. They won't last, but sonically for live use, they're fine. The problem comes with wear and tear. However the top of the range cable here isn't any use either. It's far too stiff.
Bad shielding and connectors leads to hum, ESPECIALLY in a live setting where you're surrounded by lights and active speakers
Maybe low output single coils would have revealed more of a difference? I suppose I shall never know because even if I won the lottery I still would not spend that much on a cable.
It's actually the opposite. The higher the output level, the more noticeable the capacitance.
Is the Vovox 95% better than the Pro Snake? No, I don't think so. Two things that I kept thinking of during this video. 1. Durability, is the Vovox going to last years? Yes, Is the Pro Snake going to last the same? No, So after a year I would still have confidence in the Vovox. 2. If you went gigging with the Vovox I would be scared of loosing it or it being stolen. 300 odd quid/euro is a lot of money to lose as a gigging musician. Thats where the Pro Snake wins. If something happens just buy another one. It won't break the bank. So my view on cables is thickness doesn't matter it's the quality of the cable inside that counts. I spend around £15 to £20 on a cable, more depending on length. I find in that price range great quality and reliability. If I bought the Vovox it would never leave my studio. Cheap cables for at a pinch moment and don't need anything high quality. All I can recommend is spend a decent amount of money on cables because they are an important part of the signal chain. Expensive cables are worth it in studios and pro musicians like back line where gear is safe and need reliability. Average touring musicians in a van £20 mark cable will be perfect.
Hi guys In 2013 I purchased from Andertons music UK two cables they are Whirlwind leader Elite and the are still are in perfect alder about £25.00 each you can't beat that .... or can you :-)
For 3m I pay around 25 to 35 €, how would such a cable compare to those two?
Very close to the second.I'm going to get myself some Sommer Spirit XXL cables after a try because they sound noticeably better than some cables I've used before while still being affordable
maybe a little word about the real thing : how long will they last ?
I make my cables on my own. Buying 50-60m with the specs I want from a manufacturer and then cut it to the leght I want it to have and solder Neutrik silent plugs on it. It's not the cheapest way but I get exactly what I want.
Even I can here huge difference via compressed RUclips. It is so funny he just WANTS TO DENY.
The Vovox rolled the high end off ever so slightly. I imagine this cable is meant for studio use (when the label is paying for it) and not for 99.99% of the players out there. Half of what you pay for cables is materials and construction, the other is just markup.
it sounds like the expensive cable preserve clarity to the high end. not like that would make me buy them, though
In 1982 I bought fixable Fender cables. It came in a spool. If it breaks you just snip the end off and push it back into the tip. I still have them they're almost 40 years old. I can't find the history of them on the Internet. If somebody ever had them let me know.
I'd like them to be knock-offs because it would make your story THAT much funnier.
The expensive ones are definitely quieter. Sounds more rich but lacks the boldness the cheap one has. Weird. It would take 40 years to get to that price point with cheaper cables. I take care of my cables.
Rob Chapman and Rab on Thomann what is the world coming too?
I think I'll be at least 10 years of using the cheap cables before they sum up to the expensive ones.
Orange OR15 model ??? :) \m/
If it was actually super thin, so that the cable struggled with transmitting the signal there could be some difference, but at the girth of even the cheap one, it cannot make a difference. So the Vovox Cables seem overpriced AF. And as far as the Sonorus named variant of Vovox cables is concerned, they most likely are. Their linear „Protect“ cables might be somewhat better in bang for buck, but the premium you pay will most likely not be covered by the results. And even the longevity of the cables will have a hard time. Live gigs nowadays are much More likely to be done with wireless systems and even if we talk studio, a cable this thick can be bothersome to use. And with a cable this stiff, you will also put more strain on the jack or the plug.
If you're familiar with The Fast Show, they did totally see you coming...
I’m sure there is a measurable difference via some sort of a a machine but I promise with the naked ear you can’t hear it?
The spectrogram looks slightly cleaner (waves are less cranky and rounder) on the expensive one. But not that much to orgasm about it. If it lasts as long as 100 cheap cables I guess it makes sense
The cable sniffing begins. Such a hilarious image there! Do people actually say hella? Besides Taylor Swift? Apparently. I could replace a cable very easily and cheaply. Don’t buy expensive or it will really hurt when you leave it behind or it does break. Buy a decent low capacitance cable. Why would I want a stiff cable anyway? Pain in the ass.
What's up with chappers and that bandaid behind his ear? Has he been getting plastic surgery? Also noticed he's dyed his hair a funny shade of red lol what the hell?
He had to have his brain checked. It was making him too intelligent and making the rest of us look stupid-dumb
//Andy
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses hey Andy. Completely irrelevant comment but your video about the Gibson trust to mistrust relationship really brought to light a lot of realizations about how corporations work for me. I have been a Gibson fan since i started playing guitar and I almost exclusively own Gibson (2 Gibson LPs, one Epi Custom, one LTD) but i love how you expressed your honest opinion without the fear of fanboy backlash. I think youre one of the honest reviewers that make it worth checking gear on RUclips for! Cheers
By jumbo jet? It wasn’t easy...
Planet Waves, for me.
no longer PW, just D'Addario ;)
M.O.G.A.M.I
Rob, I know barbecue is no properly enjoyed unless you end up with barbecue sauce behind your ears. BUT, putting a napkin behind your ears does not help you.
I can't for the life of me hear a difference. I am however thinking if there is one, it would stand out greater with very low output pickups and extra long cables? To me at least the best argument to spend extra money on a cable is to buy once and never look back.
What if you lose it?
//Andy
For that kind of money it should include at least a small bottle with gypsy tears.
Sorry guys but this really is a soppy 'comparison' of cables. Total cable capacitance is the only thing that affects the sound of the guitar. Otherwise you're looking for wear resistance, low triboelectric noise, good screening, ease of use and value for money. While it has a low capacitance per metre of 95pF the Vovox product is a bit ridiculous because it is made from solid core wire making it really stiff. Bend that stuff backwards and forwards a few times and it is going to break. Vovox even say their cable is meant for studio use and should be treated with care.
Cant help but notice there is NO background interference
get the best cable you can afford or you'll be buying new ones more often.
Maybe model an amp with expensive cables and then cheap ones and compare them I call it the Kemper cable test!
This is great advice, PN.
Nice idea for a test, too!
//Andy
Poo Ninja Great idea, Poo! Seriously
David D and those are few and far between for me 😂
dont listen to the audio by itself
Clear case of reassuringly expensive, but bugger all aural difference. One would hope it would last forever, but it's still not worth the money, just plain daft!
Many reasonably priced cables feature a lifetime warranty today anyway
as a professional sound engineer for over two decades - here are the facts:
cheap cables tend to break more often.
-home use? maybe okay pro use? not good.
cheap cables tend to hum more
-home use? maybe okay. pro use? not good.
cheap cables have no warranty
home use? up to you. pro use? you can exchange broken, non abused cables at major retailers for free.
cheap cables made with low quality copper etc tend to sound more and more dull over time due to internal corrosion.
home use? up to you. pro use? not good.
cheap cables allow more handling noise to transmit through the cable.
it's all up to you.
these are the issues most videos on youtube don't cover.
a decent, name brand cable will generally last you longer than a cheap cable all while maintaining at least a small improvement in sound transmission. if a name brand cable stops working you will get a free exchange. if a crap cable stops working it's garbage. do the math.
what I find breaks cables most often is stepping on the ends (the plugs). when you unplug your guitar etc drop the cable end away from where someone can step on it. also, loop the cable through your guitar strap while playing.
Rob, is that scar on the side of your head from the knife someone used to cut the sexual tension between you two?
Good enough cable is perfect if you make good music.
bitte macht klarere, etiketierte und blinde A-B Vergleiche ....
I’ve paid about €60 tops for a guitar cable,I do believe in good cables especially patch cables between pedals but €368 for a cable fuck that shit🤬🤯
It's pro cable, for recording.
Wow...thanks for nothing ;) a REAL A-B comparison would have been nice, but hey some guys saying it's louder and some other saying well I heard no difference is very helpful :P
So many sexual references... fuck ive got a immature mind XD
cable = capacitor
Don't think my 74 year old ears would detect any difference.
get yourself one to go with the guitar Rob Whats another $400.00?
Cables which remain stiff for 4 or more hours are considered a medical emergency and will require the attention of a physician.
Cheap cable higher capacitance poorer quality. Doesn’t mean it’ll sound terrible. But quality cables sound better and have FAR less noise. Don’t want to go to low on the capacitance either. Between 20-30 is usually the sweet spot. They’re merely trying to sell you cheap s*** here. Classic Rob. He will paint a turd and tell you it sounds good if he’s getting paid to say it.
george ls
Andy? Please keep doing interviews. Truly the most human interviewer. Nothing against kris. But sorry you eek him out. Kris is great tho
Chapman is just a really creepy guy.
Who cares about cables in this video, if you play THAT guitar thru that sweet Orange amp
I think it's matters in sustainability, at least that's my experience. I bought a cable for 65€
I bought the best guitarcable in the world Mogami
It about time the two of you come out of the closet.😉
We are fine where we are as long as we are together.
//Andy
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses lol
Pig Hog cables....thank me later
A waste of money. For people with too much cash. I am shocked that Ro says he wanted one. It seems totally impractical.
I would never buy that cable
ofc it doesn't make difference if you have ear cancer
n
My Cable is bigger than yours
Worthless "test". Just measure the damn cables!