@@poopinbabe8972 And there is no way to know you’re not with fakes rn in a simulation and not your actual family and friends outside of it so you just end up valuing the potential fakes similarly, the same way it’ll be within the IT.
Thing is, infinite tsukuyomi doesn't rob you of free will. It's actually the ONLY WAY to have free will. The reality is a perfect creation of your own will/desires. You literally will yourself into your own perfect world.
Not everybody would sign up for the infinite tsukuyomi because it isn’t real but I’m 100% sure people in BAD situations like slaves 3rd countries etc would sign up for a world of dreams even if they know it isn’t real
Theres no way, if it was real, everybody would sign up. Not even the richest of individuals have had their life go perfectly. The infinite tsukuyomi would fulfill that.
I'd rather live an illusion of a good life than the reality of a bad one. Which, y'know, we could be in an illusion right now and we'd never be the wiser to it anyway, so
@@monkfruit that mean Naruto and his ninja way and ideals are pointless He should realize he can't always save everyone around him he is human how can he stop something we know is going to happen Destiny and fate are something out cantrol we need move on and accept that Naruto is just foolish child run away from the truth shinobi are warrior not peace maker fight in the dull to the death
This video is more than just explaining Madaras ideology. It left me thinking about a lot of things. Very well done. Also, the backround track made this a lot more impactful.
No he is not. He is someone who has a god complex and is forcing his idea of peace to people's throats by putting them into illusion without thinking of their free will. He is the literal opposite of Hashirama. Although fundamentally he is a good guy but he had become desperate and needed to carry out his methods.
Was having a God complex wrong? Yes! Were his actions wrong, yes! Was his idea right? In my opinion, yes. The truth is, in this world, as long as people have free will, there will always be good stuff in this world, but also....there will always be suffering, struggle, war and hatred. You probably typed that message on your phone, and from that I'll imagine that you wake up in a comfy bed, eat food and have somewhere a normal life so obviously you think madara is wrong. But....ask a kid in the slums, waking up on the street not knowing what they'll eat, If they even find something to eat. I can with 99% assure you that they'll see madaras idea as a paradise. "BUT ITS NOT REAL" yes and so what? If noone knows it's fake or noone knows how to escape it, then does it matter?
"NEOOO WAKE UP NEO YOUR COMFY PERFECT LIFE IS FAKE YOU NEED TO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD NEO IN THE SEWERS EATING SOISLOP AND HIDING LIKE A RAT ITS 1000% BETTER THAN LIVING IN THE FANTASY WORLD WHERE YOU HAD A REGULAR LIFE NEOOOOOOOOO WAKE UP NEO" - Morpheus
For real man. In the matrix universe the world is over. Humanity is over. The planet is uninhabitable. All this obsession for free will is just dumb where you don't do an heck with it. Free will of what? Of starve to death? Of hurting another human being? It's better to live a better life in a fake world than have to face that shit for nothing
Every single one of us goes through life depending on and bound by our individual knowledge and awareness. And we call it reality. However, both knowledge and awareness are equivocal. One's reality might be another's illusion - Uchiha Itachi.
There is no need for an alternate world itself. To solve all these problems, death is enough. After death, pleasure doesn't matter because there is basically no want for pleasure. If you want something and when u r not able to achieve it only, u have a problem or suffering. Otherwise it's always fine.
I'm from Russia, we have a couple of videos about Madara in our country, really worthy ones , in more detail about growing up and what he came to, I can notice from you, peace came anyway after the war with Madara In any case , even if Madara became Hokage , he would take all the power to himself ( in a conversation with Onoki , saying you obey the person , there will be no alliance ) As a result , everyone would unite against him , there would be the same situation and the same world after the war He wanted peace and he achieved it
Six months ago I commented on this video, but I think I have some better insight I'd like to give after having changed my perspective a little bit. I think everyone, to some extent, has the desire to leave an impact on the world around them. Be it raising a child to carry on your legacy, protecting and saving people who'll ultimately remember you, or even just forging friendships and maintaining family bonds with the subconscious intention to positively impact your friends and family, and not be forgotten. The main theme here is *impact.* We all strive to make an impact, we all fight for something. But if you live a dream until the day you die, you can't impact anything, because the world you live in dies along with you. A dream world is based on shallow blissful ignorance. It directly clashes and opposes with the human nature of wanting to be part of something more, or wanting to leave an impact or a legacy on the world. Jiraiya died to Nagato, but he was ultimately satisfied because he left a legacy he could be proud of in the form of Naruto. In the Tsukuyomi, that legacy would vanish and die right then and there. Even if you aren't aware of that, it still happens, youve still been played for a fool because someone else decided you weren't competent enough to be trusted with the real world. As a side note, after the fourth war, long lasted peace between the nations is plausible. During Hashirama's time, the villages were used to the warring states perspective of "everyone is your enemy." During Naruto's, however, they had the perspective shift that fighting alongside then would bring. Which also toes back to legacy. The legacy of Naruto and the five kage was a legacy that could ensure a long-lasting world peace. Thats what the Will of Fire is all about, after all. Entrusting your legacy to those who come after you, and trusting that they can keep makimg things better and right.
I don’t think anyone can determine whether or not they are in reality right now so really any accomplishment or perception of leaving a legacy is just as valid inside the genjutsu/simulation as it is in another possible layer so what matters more to humans is the perception that they are leaving an impact rather than the knowledge that they have after their deaths. Secondly, existing within the current world is not without cost, to survive as a species we have to cause an untold amount of suffering even outside the exploitation of fellow humans, think of slaughterhouses, animal experimentation, and animals killed during crop harvesting and protection. Then what happens in the wild: predation, parasites, diseases, starvation, etc All these are real experiences by sentient, suffering organisms that have no respite or hope. to continue this world is to doom trillions of sentient beings to inevitable and brutal ends. Regarding the peaceful era, even if peace lasts a few generations it is almost guaranteed conflict will arise again, in centuries or possibly millennia Naruto and possibly even ninjas will be forgotten, new civilizations will spring forth and these new civilizations will have different ideologies, different interests and that inevitably leads to conflict. Within the infinite Tsukuyomi, you get the benefit of perception of leaving a lasting impact, which is the same thing you have in the “real” world (rather than the knowledge you did), a customized world that ensures everyone’s fulfillment and happiness whatever that might look like, no organism has to be sacrificed for the possibility of impact for members of a stronger species (nonhumans animals end up in the IT too) and no one can be harmed by not being outside the genjutsu since to them that is the real thing (and by all measures we have of what real is it is), it really is by any rational standard in the interest of all sentient beings. The will of fire is entrusting your legacy to others in the hope they can do better and throwing everyone that comes after you into the furnace if things do get worse, as acceptable fodder for your dream. To quote Farquaad: "Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make"
This is nature. Nature is born and nature dies. That's how it works. Who are you to decide how things should go? Everything in our reality is so old, complex and mysterious and then human being exists. We are simply part of nature moreover a result of nature(unless ofc you believe in some sort of skydaddy). That concludes saving living nature. To end it on brighter tone, long after the human rase goes extict nature will exist once again. Now about IT, reality, perception & etc. The line between reality and vr(IT for example) is very slim. That's the case because of perception. That much is true. If one cannot come to the realization that IT is not real then why should we care? In my view living a perfect life without the chance to go through struggle, growth and faillure is nothing more than pitiful existentce, hiding from reality. You could argue that ,,you could have all that there if you want it", but those are not notions that we would think about if we lived in such reality. Why? Because they would be non existent. Let me give an exmaple: in such world how would you strive for peace if you never knew war? Problem:,,why should we care if it's real?" We should because it is only justful if someone is able to make the concious desicion to live in a world of this sort, even if they cannot tell what is what. There, where the fate of someone is decided, the idea of choice must be present. This is how i see this dilemma.
@@rabbss830 Not putting everyone in the IT results in far more breaches of consent over the long term, so I’d rather put everyone in the genjutsu if given the option.
@@rabbss830 You'd rather have more Danzo's come along in the future since we would have "free will" it's better than a dream. In a hudred years, the cycle will repeat itself in violence. So many crimes and atrocities are commited yet we need to accept that since it's real, not caring about the bodies left behind but only their legacy? Also the lasting legacy is flawed since not everyone dies will leave a legacy and even if they did, they get punished for not getting to see if it does. Homelessness dying unceremoniously, people getting killed in grisly deaths, sexual assault, etc. Yeah they'd be stoked about leaving some pseudo-legacy that they won't even see at the cost of what they'd have to suffer through.
If you can't ever even doubt your tsukuyomi life isn't real, then it is real to you. Infinite tsukuyomi was an awesome idea and anybody with a brain would sign up for it
The only people who don’t agree with Madara’s plan are those who revel in Voilence. I couldn’t care about what people say but I agree that Madara was right. Even if you see Naruto next generations, it’s a mess like Cold War.
Madara was right. In my honest opinion, many people love lies and ain't no good anyway. I think even madara knew that people love lies. Let humans have their illusions so they won't destroy the planet earth with their petty differences.
A detractor's primary argument is "It's all fake and there is no happiness without suffering". I sincerely disagree. Think back to when you were ages 1 through 3. Happiness and contentment is all one knows. We didn't need to SUFFER to understand happiness! Pain and suffering is introduced as we age and engage with one another. Why fight for something when you don't have to and get what you want immediately at any time? Also, the other reason why anyone would disagree with this philosophy is they themselves are afraid of no longer mattering in the eyes of the public. As humans, we are a social species. Most things we do revolve around attention and greed. We want to keep living so people can see how well we're doing. "If everyone is happy and no one is around to acknowledge my success, however minute, then what's the point?" EXACTLY! Our existence is fueled by narcissism! The same narcissism which causes suffering in the first place! Madara WAS right. The Infinite Tsukuyomi is the way.
Naruto has easy speaking, hes the choosen one, has great genetics, great teachers, sure his backstory is sad but what if he didnt even had the potential to become a ninja. He could have hard worked all he wanted and it would have never worked, he even would had to accept it and become miserable. At the end he would have snapped one day releasing kurama and letting him destroy the village. Naruto was very lucky to be the main charakter in an Anime.
A lot of Narutos characters ties into the Bamboo Cutter tale, which talks about men not getting what they want. Minato: "fastest man alive" Always late when it really matters. Hashirama: "Children don't have to die anymore with the founding of the village" Then has his cells used to perpetrate child murder through experiments so that his cells then can be used in warfare. Madara: "Wants everyone to wake up to reality and make a better world" Forcefully tries to put everyone asleep. I feel like Madara is a walking contradiction. He also talks a lot about peace but gets a hard on whenever he meets Hashirama because he can't wait to get a fight.
Madara with "Wake Up To Reality", he meant that the world wasn't roses and flowers and the longer you lived in It, the more you realized how much dark It Is. He did not mean that the Shinobi World should focus on making a better world, especially because he himself knows perfectly well that no matter how kind you are and try to bring peace like Naruto and Hashirama did, eventually people will find an excuse to wage war again
Well he was a child soldier that's been fighting/challenging his friend all his life so of course he would like fighting and especially someone he believes is equal/his better
Of course madara was right the shnobi system is hell no wonder many people become villains the world broken them I mean every character has a tragic back story end 33 proves madara was right the shnobi world is dark and cruel
definitely true that every single character had some form of tragic backstory, Madara was definitely trying to make things the best he could make them for everyone
@@monkfruit like kimimaro says I am not afraid of the dark I was born in it for a child to say that shows how dark the naruto world is and naruto is idiot he thinks that friendship can bring peace he thinks like child he is too naive and idealistic he way of thinking won't work in the real life
@@monkfruit I am glad that someone the madrara was right you if really think about many of villains were right nagato was right about the cycle of hatred madrara was right about the shnobi system being hell zabuza was right about shnobi being used by thier vliages as tools and neji was right about destiny naruto is the child destiny many of them had a better understanding about the world than naruto
@@dytgyfgyffuh243 yeah, I definitely think that confronting the curse of hatred and having SO MANY different perspectives is one of Naruto's greatest strengths as a series. Really glad you liked the video man :)
9:56 yes this is the point i love the most, it explains the characters of madara obito itachi, pain and sasuke, under the title of Akatisuki, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, as long as people out there that both suffer the same pain, there can be no hate, you actually become grown because of the pain and set aside old struggles in order to face a new struggle together, now if the threat continue to grow in scale, the shinobi world will always look pass its childish quarrels and join forces to take that threat out, looking at it that way it makes sense that conflict is needed for peace to be mentained, but if that conflict is an external force outside the shinobi world, then peace will be maintained.
Does not that explain how we feel about anime? For a lot of us, real life is worst to deal with, real world issues suck, so we escape with anime and enter a dream world with adventures and battle and innovation and emotions of great scale, if you compare it to that then it makes sense
@@rabbss830the IT allows you to set hardships and struggle if that's what you'd desire, its not just pure bliss but your conscience and subconscious desires manifesting. If you desire war like Madara you'd get it (without anyone actually being affected), you want Paradise you'd get it, you want a normal world but things are going well you'd get that. People suffering from poverty, sickness and physical/sexual abuse won't have to go through that anymore.
This makes me think. We didn't need for a story about aliens as a follow up to Naruto. Two Blue Vortex is great right now, howeber, we could have gotten something much greater. Instead of aliens, we could have gotten a new group of people who had been sufferring their whole lives. When their Infinite Tsukuyomi dream came to an end, they wanted it back so much, they began to do the akatsuki's plan all over again. But this time, it's not war that brings sufferring, it's literally the world amd how some higher ups can treat the lower class. It's hard to explain what exactly I mean here, but I think you get the idea?
I believe that there is one thing that goes unmentioned. Humanity itself, one of its key characteristics, is to be able to have choices. It could be as small as what color shirt to wear, or to buy one pair of shoes or the other. The point is, on the large scale, fate may be unchangeable. But the small details, those are ones own "free will." Most people will never be really influential, or have their names known world wide. That is the truth. But Humanity strives to try either way. Its part of what makes us human. The Infinite Tsukuyomi robs humans of that. It is not good or bad, right or wrong, it just takes away all choices. Yes, it makes it easier to live. hard decisions don't have to be made. But, It also doesn't allow for the momentary pleasures that feel all the much better, or human growth, the thing that is most important, what makes us us.
If dream is good than that is better than reality. Everyone’s struggle, some achive and rest of them get nothing but failure.True thing is no one is leading a good life. Most of the human Desire never full fill. Most of the himan struggle. We are only a slave of our true goal nothing else. Infinite tsukuyomi is 100% right, if we can not figured out it is not the reality than what matter. This is fake but 1000 time better than reality. A good dream is better than anything. Human bron, strugle, suffer and then die. Reality is hopples and crule.
Great job and very intelligently stated, however I would like to quote Arthur Schopenhauer to make my point. "There is only one inborn error and that is the notion that we exist in order to be happy". Life is innately about suffering, suffering in the old context of movement or journeying, as well as misery and pain. I believe its our God given right to suffer and choose what our lives and destinies are beyond what life throws at us. I do understand Madara's thinking, as a parent and friend I can see how this could be attractive. However for me personally, I reject this notion and would never want it placed on me. My life has never been easy, but it has been real and it has forged me into someone who is learnt and capable in different realms and spheres. I guess it's the ideological difference that comes into place, for me anything artifical is artificial. The soul would know, and the spirit would find a way to figure it out. Just like the copper tops waking up and fighting the machines in the matrix. I guess I'm more like Guts (Berserk) than Madara ideologically, I rather keep fighting and bleeding as a human than live in some false dream utopia. We will all die but in that dream world, would we truly live? All the beautiful aspects of life that happen either because or despite pain, would be lost and that existence would be blissfully hollow.
Now this. This is what was saying (albeit a lot more intelligent said), life isn’t exactly about finding happiness or really about anything at all. It just is, humans are the ones who seek purpose where there is none, other humans each purpose and so on and so forth. If I live an eternal stagnant heaven. What is there to be happy anymore? When happiness becomes the norm then it stops being happiness, if there’s no low to make the highs feel that much better then what’s the point? It’s not that Madara is wrong because everything that is created is an illusion, it’s that everything within the genjutsu robs humans of their humanity.
Now that'd be long term planning, or just reveal that Sasuke legit used his Sage of Six Paths powered Rinne Sharingan to more or less recreate the Infinite Tsukuyomi because given that Sasuke's Rinne Sharingan far surpasses Madara's I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard for him to do this, especially since the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the moon reflects the Rinne Sharingan just like Kaguya used
Those lessons are only of instrumental value though in so far as they prevent further suffering or alleviate it, if suffering ceased to be then the lessons of life would be wholly unnecessary IMO. It’s like being glad cancer exists because if all the losses incurred by it didn’t happen we wouldn’t have chemotherapy, chemo’s value clearly comes from the potential to alleviate a greater harm but I would sacrifice such invention any day if we could just eradicate any possibility of cancer/harm entirely. This isn’t even to mention that most of the experiences by all sentient beings on earth don’t lead to further lessons or growth but merely an agonizing death, at least I don’t think starving children in Africa learn much as they’re dying of malnutrition. The world also relies on the unwilling sacrifices of others for the benefit of the self, think of how many creatures with subjective experience have to go through hell only to be eaten alive/killed in slaughterhouses and that’s just a fact of how life works and how it is sustained. In a world like the infinite Tsukuyomi, everyone wins, no one has to be sacrificed for the benefit of others and life’s lessons are unnecessary (not to mention you can still get the pain and conflict within the ninjutsu if you really desire it this time without the necessary but unwilling harm to anyone).
@@monkfruit i agree with that, plus the infinite tsukiyomi dream isn’t “everything is good and happy” it’s your truest desire, if you wish to go through stuff and grow from it, you will
Growth is only of instrumental value, it’s only good because with more wisdom and strength you can overcome future suffering or at least alleviate the current one, growth has never been valuable in and of itself. Think of fertilizer and chemotherapy, both were the result of our growth to try and overcome the suffering of hunger and cancer, but I wouldn’t say I’m glad hunger and cancer exist because we managed to grow through them resulting in these inventions but rather that these inventions derive their value from helping to overcome the suffering. I think you’d agree that it’s better if neither ever existed. The infinite Tsukuyomi allows you to go through struggle if that’s what you desire anyway just that the rest of the creatures on earth who don’t value the same get to experience what they want without deprivation or suffering so it’s a win-win anyway. To not cast the infinite Tsukuyomi is to pretty much render those whose lives are defined by torture (a lot of humans and almost all sentient nonhuman animals) into cannon fodder to be unwillingly sacrificed for the continuation of a world mostly defined by torture.
its just so sad that, hashirama, jiraiya, yahiko and maybe others dream about peace, when everyone understand each other pain, can be achieve by uniting to fight a common enemy (madara, obito) its like, the achieved peaceful era by Hero Naruto, is because Madara, and Obito exist
If it doesn’t matter if you live in a world of truth, only if you are happy, then you can reverse the argument. No matter how much you try to be happy there is no inherent value of it rather than feeling good inside. If you completely rip off the flesh human ideas and show the bones, it is based on the subjective. Eventually, there is just emotion, no rational thought.
Love madara he was my fav naruto villan, but im more into characters like batman, morpheus(from sandman comics) and even now i like boruto, and if u watched tv show or watched the comic u would know about that sand episode or issue (bassiclly he has his sand and he can put people into dreams etc. and some girl gets addicted to it and she is like living in this fake reality where she is with her man and everything is perfect, but on outside shes like corpse and she dies when that sand is taken away from her) And that reminded me of infinite tsukuyomi, fake reality where ue body is rooting and ur real life is forgoten. And yes living in world where there is no bad thing happening to you seems really good but im christian and i belive in heaven. I also belive that heven is place where only good thing happend, and u can relive ur happy memories and all u do is making new good memories. And cuz of that i see this life like a test, i want to be best version of myself and i dont look at death like worst thing that happend but i also dont want to die young. We all have one life on earth and we should expirience it fully, point is to have as much as fun here (like partying but not too much that we became addicted to alcohol, drugs etc, earn money but not too much so we become addicted to it, u get what im saying) and also like good things are part of your life so are bad, we only have one it may not be perfect but its at least real. My mother has s
Part 2. My mother has schizophrenia and i was watching movie called beautiful mind (2001) its about genius with schizophrenia. And its like there are all these events and people that u are not sure that are real, and now imagine all u love and care about are just part of your imagination, imagine now naruto.. he loves hinata, has his children boruto and himawari and manny other things and he dies and goes to heaven, there is hinata and all his firends he made in dream and none of them are real, none of them lived same dream as he has etc. He would be pretty sad, even tho he had best 50years of his life in that dream none of it matters cuz its not real acctualy, so im saying, in real life yes he went through some really bad stuff but it only made his stronger ans better in some way, in the end he wont remeber these bad times cuz good times will overshine it, nostalgia is remembering only good things about ur past so the bad thing just come and go but good things say with you till the day u die. It doesnt matter if its bad now cuz at the end its gonna be good. If u got to this part j want to thank you. I have been thinking about this past 2 or 3 days and i had to say it. I really like life even if i didnt before and id be verry happy if this helped anyone cuz i have been there and i eish you best in life❤❤❤
As much as I personally would love the infinite tsukuyomi. It has two flaws when applying it to the real world, firstly, you have to think about whether there's people who deserve an infinite tsukuyomi like criminals and other bad people. Secondly, we have to be aware of things outside of the genjutsu on Earth, like natural disasters, potential asteroids hitting earth, and whatnot as well as the reality that the universe is a finite existence it will come to an end. An infinite thing within a finite thing will ultimately come to an end when that finite thing ends as well. So to conclude: 1. Not everyone deserves it. 2. It's generally impractical. Edit: I also forgot to mention that it's unfair to deprive past and deny future generations of good people from experiencing the infinite Tsukuyomi. In regards to the inner peace paradox, I completely disagree since the infinite tsukuyomi is practically heaven true bliss also creates inner peace and your good experiences will infinitely be good it defeats any paradoxes.
People of Madara's caliber are casually splitting moons. I don't think anyone has to worry about asteroids and natural disasters ruining the experience. the god tree is extremely durable. As for the finitude of the universe, well, everyone in the Shinobi world will simply be long gone by the time it arrives, so it doesn't really matter. Future generations would never come to be with everyone in the genjutsu, so there's no one being deprived here, as deprivation is a feeling exclusive to conscious creatures. Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice the application of it to the real-world part, though I guess it doesn't matter if you're in the simulation and something destroys it; you'll just go from feeling absolutely bliss to feeling nothing at all and not realize what even happened-not ideal but not exactly something you'll feel harmed by.
Madara is the true savior of the world, because He used His godly powers to bring true happiness and peace to ALL living things in the world. Meanwhile, naruto used his to shut down other people's suffering/trauma (talk-no-jutsu) and perpetuate the Kage system, which as the Hokage, only benefits himself.
@Monkfruit i get the defense but i don't think the otsutsuki count as a valid arguement against the peace naruto brought to the world since they are literally aliens that come from space.
Yeah though not everyone deserves happiness, the world is perfect you just can't see it, no one is fit to make worlds accept the Devine creator aka God
Naruto way of peace is wrong but he stopped that minded set of taking the worlds hatred because of itachi, Naruto used the concept of shadow clone jutsu, a united equal force that’s unstoppable and never ending, true teamwork
He was right, but trying to force people to do the right thing is where he went wrong. People, even irl, need to learn on their own. No one is coming to save you once you’re grown.
right but people can still be the victims of unfortunate circumstances. Disease, war, etc. Everyone isn’t given a fair and equal chance in our own world irl so tbh in a world like naruto’s it makes even more sense. The idea of everyone living their best life, free to do as they please with no consequences to others because of it kinda seems like the perfect world to me. But only if you can’t be aware of it
So you'd rather let bad people hurt innocent people irl so those innocent people can learn... something? About how life sucks and is unfair? Does them taking revenge when justice isn't meted out make them bad people too? And IF those bad people, their innocent loved ones have to just take and suffer, so they can learn something... too?
@ No one came to save me, they tried to make it worse in fact. I had to learn the hard way cuz no one can teach anyone the hard lessons. That’s why if they didn’t learn as kids they either will never learn or they will get it brutally and it’s never pretty or fair. It’s always best to focus on the kids and let the grown folks fuck themselves. Tbf here I have tried, and my efforts have always been wasted. People I know that I have tried to help still smoke crack, beg for money, are homeless, unemployed, joined a gang, are racist, afraid of people/being social, etc etc etc. People don’t listen cuz they think they know better. Until they eventually learn and holy fuck do they get it bad, some are dead due to drugs and gangs, some are locked up. Though some have a wife and kids, and decent careers now, it’s not all bad. But it is mostly bad.
It would've been so much better if they just ignored her kaguya. Cut it at madara, that'd have been enough Also, I disagree the truth maters euthanasia is fun and all but you can't have the good without the bad. It is easy not just but that's just me
Only one downside, humans would extinct. Either short-term because no new children can be born. Or long term through cataclysm because we fail to become multi planetary.
Only counter argument i have, what if all the suffering is for progressing towards a better future, to extend human life. Would it be worth? Jesus and Ed Snowden would probably say yes.
@@Tskuyomi28 Progress mostly gets its value from solving our problems if there are no problems there is no value in progress (See some of my other comments on this video). Whether it’s worth it or not is entirely subjective so you should be asking yourself that.
Everything you said is nice and all. But isn’t the infinite tsukuyomi will kill everybody? So yeh everyone live a happy life then die. But theres no way to reproduce. So my simple point is the plan is bad because it will just be the end of mankind.
i disagree with this video, and the reason was because he tried to away ppl's freedom who didn't want that, he also was walking contradiction bcuz he wanted to end battle yet he was the most one who enjoy to have a battle and find someone who's stronger than him, that's why he end up failing and getting stab by zestu who he tought he was his will, madara betray himself to reach a level of kaguya but failed bcuz he was human and human can't become goods!! what actually madara want to control and rule the wrold, also putting ppl in fake world is just like someone who start to feel satisfaction whenever strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
It's a world without breathing, moving, eating, making offspring, this world sounds like trash and would eventually lead to the human race dying out. And with what we know, everyone would have been turned into a Zetsu, so people would die out and this would be the worst possible thing for anyone, who could actually agree with Madara either way? I would rather fight in a war and die over being wrapped up and turned into a Zetsu or shriveling up and feeding a tree in a dream, both are trash.
Wll tecknically speaking since Itachi allowed his girlfriend Izumi live a complete and happy life in like a nanosecond in the light novels this would actually work. Of course its kinda a moot point considering the infinite tsukuyomi was complete bs that Black Zetsu used to manipulate the reincarnations of Indra to help him get Kaguya back. So while humanity has a good dream the human race dies out as everyone is turned into White Zetsus. Plus Madara caused a lot of evil and many wars and hell he basically loved fighting more than anything so even if his want for peace is somewhat genuine he was still extremly hyppocritical about it. His whole plan was actually more about stroking his ego and show off his power as what really matters was that he was the one who brought peace. We also see just how far he has fallen in the present as he basically was the root of all the bad things in the world to a degree. Also considering the whole plan was just a way to resurect Kaguya it was clearly doomed from the start.
I like your points but I have to respectfully disagree. The purpose of life is not happiness but meaning. A life of only pleasure, happiness, and peace is a meaningless one. Consider why suicide rates are highest in prosperous well developed nations. We actually need the adversity and struggle in order to grow as humans. When happiness is divorced from pain and struggle it loses all meaning. I think this is what kishimoto was trying to suggest by having those trapped in the dream world too long becoming white zetsu.
@ thats not the point I was making. The issue is far more nuanced than the childish myopic perspective of “if it feels good then it is good”. Only children believe pleasure is the end goal of life. That’s why we have to parent them and restrict their access to things like video games and candy.
He wasn't ever right. The egoistic character of his clan wasn't right. True happiness lies in the mutual help, if I make everybody around me better and happier, then WE are happy doubled. If I spread hate and dominance, I make a chain which will affect not only me, but also my close ones. That's the thing egocentric Madara couldn't understand and was he's downfall. Success achieved by stepping on others heads is no success at all. Even if you achieve it, you can only share it with emptiness, so it's meaningless.
An entire video explaining why what accounts to slavery is good. If it's REALLY a dream you have no control over it, it's just what your mind thinks up. A life of nothing but luxury, of never having to earn anything, of never having to strive for something, invalidates what it means to be alive and a conscious person and takes away from the achievements of everyone before and after. Anyone who would want to live in that type of false world has never strived for anything and has never wanted for anything of meaning.
Facing them is what us, well… Us. Illusions no matter how sweat can’t exactly replicate reality, because reality is what one takes from it and when reality is robbed of all nuance then it stops being reality. This is primarily why I kinda despise the concept of “perfection”
@@anhthai7005 The terms illusion and reality only hold meaning when you can differentiate between the two. The Infinite Tsukuyomi doesn't allow for this, so it basically would be reality by every sense of the world. I think Madara was right, because ironically, the Infinite Tsukuyomi is the most free thing imaginable.
@@zemox2534Why don't you say this to those people who were born with disabilities or an orphan, I can bet You're commenting on this while sitting inside an Ac room, and live with your father's money.
@@limbo9993 you still take away ppl freedom who didn't want that, and that's still illusion just like someone who fail satisfaction when he strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
What makes you think he was wrong, He tried to save everyone, Even in real life People are suffering outside, Crime etc, People born with disabilities it's funny How people, give statements, While sitting in an Ac room.
@@iamvengeance4583 he tried to away ppl's freedom who didn't want that, he also was walking contradiction bcuz he wanted to end battle yet he was the most one who enjoy to have a battle and find someone who's stronger than him, that's why he end up failing and getting stab by zestu who he tought he was his will, madara betray himself to reach a level of kaguya but failed bcuz he was human and human can't become goods!! what actually madara want to control and rule the wrold, also putting ppl in fake world is just like someone who start to feel satisfaction whenever strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
@@falconx4803 Still, Madara is not wrong. If Madara not forcing it to other people but let people to choose where they want life in mugen tsukuyomi or not, hes not wrong. He just wrong because forcing it to the other.
“If there’s no way to figure out it’s not real, why does reality even matter?” That hit
If it's not real it must be Cannon.
it does matter because your not actually with your family and friends, your with fakes.
@@poopinbabe8972 what’s the difference?
@@poopinbabe8972 And there is no way to know you’re not with fakes rn in a simulation and not your actual family and friends outside of it so you just end up valuing the potential fakes similarly, the same way it’ll be within the IT.
@@Sometuy11A i know they are just like the real ones but still i want it all to be real not a simulation.
Thing is, infinite tsukuyomi doesn't rob you of free will. It's actually the ONLY WAY to have free will. The reality is a perfect creation of your own will/desires. You literally will yourself into your own perfect world.
This is a very thoughtful comment
- from Indonesia -
Not everybody would sign up for the infinite tsukuyomi because it isn’t real but I’m 100% sure people in BAD situations like slaves 3rd countries etc would sign up for a world of dreams even if they know it isn’t real
yup great point. I've definitely wished for an infinite tsukuyomi at some points
Theres no way, if it was real, everybody would sign up. Not even the richest of individuals have had their life go perfectly. The infinite tsukuyomi would fulfill that.
@@goopboop7746wow, glorifying escapism huh??
@@rabbss830why not we all die at some point anyway
@@King_ace22*"Why not?! We all die at some point anyway!"
I'd rather live an illusion of a good life than the reality of a bad one. Which, y'know, we could be in an illusion right now and we'd never be the wiser to it anyway, so
exactly!
@@monkfruit that mean Naruto and his ninja way and ideals are pointless
He should realize he can't always save everyone around him he is human how can he stop something we know is going to happen Destiny and fate are something out cantrol we need move on and accept that Naruto is just foolish child run away from the truth shinobi are warrior not peace maker fight in the dull to the death
For real
Thing is, the illusion would literally be just about as real as reality too.
This video is more than just explaining Madaras ideology. It left me thinking about a lot of things. Very well done.
Also, the backround track made this a lot more impactful.
Madara was the true hero of the world
No he is not. He is someone who has a god complex and is forcing his idea of peace to people's throats by putting them into illusion without thinking of their free will.
He is the literal opposite of Hashirama. Although fundamentally he is a good guy but he had become desperate and needed to carry out his methods.
your right
Was having a God complex wrong? Yes! Were his actions wrong, yes! Was his idea right? In my opinion, yes.
The truth is, in this world, as long as people have free will, there will always be good stuff in this world, but also....there will always be suffering, struggle, war and hatred. You probably typed that message on your phone, and from that I'll imagine that you wake up in a comfy bed, eat food and have somewhere a normal life so obviously you think madara is wrong. But....ask a kid in the slums, waking up on the street not knowing what they'll eat, If they even find something to eat. I can with 99% assure you that they'll see madaras idea as a paradise. "BUT ITS NOT REAL" yes and so what? If noone knows it's fake or noone knows how to escape it, then does it matter?
"NEOOO WAKE UP NEO
YOUR COMFY PERFECT LIFE IS FAKE YOU NEED TO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD NEO
IN THE SEWERS EATING SOISLOP AND HIDING LIKE A RAT ITS 1000% BETTER THAN LIVING IN THE FANTASY WORLD WHERE YOU HAD A REGULAR LIFE
NEOOOOOOOOO WAKE UP NEO" - Morpheus
People would be like "b..but muh free will and choices need to have consequences"
@@GrimReaper-qp6fvNot that free will even exists IRL lol.
The Matrix is ahead of it time.
For real man. In the matrix universe the world is over. Humanity is over. The planet is uninhabitable. All this obsession for free will is just dumb where you don't do an heck with it. Free will of what? Of starve to death? Of hurting another human being? It's better to live a better life in a fake world than have to face that shit for nothing
Neo took the red pill just to be homeless. Y’all GOAT is a junkie.
Every single one of us goes through life depending on and bound by our individual knowledge and awareness. And we call it reality. However, both knowledge and awareness are equivocal. One's reality might be another's illusion - Uchiha Itachi.
Even though this quote is true Itachi never seemed to apply it to him self which is very ironic
There is no need for an alternate world itself. To solve all these problems, death is enough. After death, pleasure doesn't matter because there is basically no want for pleasure. If you want something and when u r not able to achieve it only, u have a problem or suffering. Otherwise it's always fine.
I'm from Russia, we have a couple of videos about Madara in our country, really worthy ones , in more detail about growing up and what he came to, I can notice from you, peace came anyway after the war with Madara
In any case , even if Madara became Hokage , he would take all the power to himself ( in a conversation with Onoki , saying you obey the person , there will be no alliance )
As a result , everyone would unite against him , there would be the same situation and the same world after the war
He wanted peace and he achieved it
Is about escapism and self happiness. Good and bad its only perspective. Unless...
God is ex-
Six months ago I commented on this video, but I think I have some better insight I'd like to give after having changed my perspective a little bit.
I think everyone, to some extent, has the desire to leave an impact on the world around them. Be it raising a child to carry on your legacy, protecting and saving people who'll ultimately remember you, or even just forging friendships and maintaining family bonds with the subconscious intention to positively impact your friends and family, and not be forgotten.
The main theme here is *impact.* We all strive to make an impact, we all fight for something. But if you live a dream until the day you die, you can't impact anything, because the world you live in dies along with you.
A dream world is based on shallow blissful ignorance. It directly clashes and opposes with the human nature of wanting to be part of something more, or wanting to leave an impact or a legacy on the world.
Jiraiya died to Nagato, but he was ultimately satisfied because he left a legacy he could be proud of in the form of Naruto. In the Tsukuyomi, that legacy would vanish and die right then and there. Even if you aren't aware of that, it still happens, youve still been played for a fool because someone else decided you weren't competent enough to be trusted with the real world.
As a side note, after the fourth war, long lasted peace between the nations is plausible. During Hashirama's time, the villages were used to the warring states perspective of "everyone is your enemy." During Naruto's, however, they had the perspective shift that fighting alongside then would bring. Which also toes back to legacy. The legacy of Naruto and the five kage was a legacy that could ensure a long-lasting world peace.
Thats what the Will of Fire is all about, after all. Entrusting your legacy to those who come after you, and trusting that they can keep makimg things better and right.
I don’t think anyone can determine whether or not they are in reality right now so really any accomplishment or perception of leaving a legacy is just as valid inside the genjutsu/simulation as it is in another possible layer so what matters more to humans is the perception that they are leaving an impact rather than the knowledge that they have after their deaths.
Secondly, existing within the current world is not without cost, to survive as a species we have to cause an untold amount of suffering even outside the exploitation of fellow humans, think of slaughterhouses, animal experimentation, and animals killed during crop harvesting and protection. Then what happens in the wild: predation, parasites, diseases, starvation, etc All these are real experiences by sentient, suffering organisms that have no respite or hope.
to continue this world is to doom trillions of sentient beings to inevitable and brutal ends.
Regarding the peaceful era, even if peace lasts a few generations it is almost guaranteed conflict will arise again, in centuries or possibly millennia Naruto and possibly even ninjas will be forgotten, new civilizations will spring forth and these new civilizations will have different ideologies, different interests and that inevitably leads to conflict.
Within the infinite Tsukuyomi, you get the benefit of perception of leaving a lasting impact, which is the same thing you have in the “real” world (rather than the knowledge you did), a customized world that ensures everyone’s fulfillment and happiness whatever that might look like, no organism has to be sacrificed for the possibility of impact for members of a stronger species (nonhumans animals end up in the IT too) and no one can be harmed by not being outside the genjutsu since to them that is the real thing (and by all measures we have of what real is it is), it really is by any rational standard in the interest of all sentient beings.
The will of fire is entrusting your legacy to others in the hope they can do better and throwing everyone that comes after you into the furnace if things do get worse, as acceptable fodder for your dream.
To quote Farquaad:
"Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make"
This is nature. Nature is born and nature dies. That's how it works. Who are you to decide how things should go? Everything in our reality is so old, complex and mysterious and then human being exists.
We are simply part of nature moreover a result of nature(unless ofc you believe in some sort of skydaddy). That concludes saving living nature. To end it on brighter tone, long after the human rase goes extict nature will exist once again.
Now about IT, reality, perception & etc. The line between reality and vr(IT for example) is very slim. That's the case because of perception. That much is true.
If one cannot come to the realization that IT is not real then why should we care?
In my view living a perfect life without the chance to go through struggle, growth and faillure is nothing more than pitiful existentce, hiding from reality. You could argue that ,,you could have all that there if you want it", but those are not notions that we would think about if we lived in such reality.
Why? Because they would be non existent. Let me give an exmaple: in such world how would you strive for peace if you never knew war?
Problem:,,why should we care if it's real?"
We should because it is only justful if someone is able to make the concious desicion to live in a world of this sort, even if they cannot tell what is what.
There, where the fate of someone is decided, the idea of choice must be present.
This is how i see this dilemma.
@@Sometuy11A you're just a pessimistic person are you? If you wantwd to escape then just go alone, don't bring others with you.
@@rabbss830 Not putting everyone in the IT results in far more breaches of consent over the long term, so I’d rather put everyone in the genjutsu if given the option.
@@rabbss830 You'd rather have more Danzo's come along in the future since we would have "free will" it's better than a dream. In a hudred years, the cycle will repeat itself in violence.
So many crimes and atrocities are commited yet we need to accept that since it's real, not caring about the bodies left behind but only their legacy?
Also the lasting legacy is flawed since not everyone dies will leave a legacy and even if they did, they get punished for not getting to see if it does. Homelessness dying unceremoniously, people getting killed in grisly deaths, sexual assault, etc. Yeah they'd be stoked about leaving some pseudo-legacy that they won't even see at the cost of what they'd have to suffer through.
I'm from Indonesia. This is such a very underrated video. It's very thoughtful, & deep analysis, even philosophical!
If you can't ever even doubt your tsukuyomi life isn't real, then it is real to you.
Infinite tsukuyomi was an awesome idea and anybody with a brain would sign up for it
The only people who don’t agree with Madara’s plan are those who revel in Voilence. I couldn’t care about what people say but I agree that Madara was right. Even if you see Naruto next generations, it’s a mess like Cold War.
That music in the background paired with the video made for something truly deep....
Another great video from monkfruit! Live this channel!!
Thanks so much!
Madara's the greatest hero Ive ever heard of
Madara was right. In my honest opinion, many people love lies and ain't no good anyway. I think even madara knew that people love lies. Let humans have their illusions so they won't destroy the planet earth with their petty differences.
I personally think he had a point and a good plan, the only thing that doesn't sit right was the way he went about doing it.
A detractor's primary argument is "It's all fake and there is no happiness without suffering". I sincerely disagree. Think back to when you were ages 1 through 3. Happiness and contentment is all one knows. We didn't need to SUFFER to understand happiness! Pain and suffering is introduced as we age and engage with one another. Why fight for something when you don't have to and get what you want immediately at any time? Also, the other reason why anyone would disagree with this philosophy is they themselves are afraid of no longer mattering in the eyes of the public. As humans, we are a social species. Most things we do revolve around attention and greed. We want to keep living so people can see how well we're doing. "If everyone is happy and no one is around to acknowledge my success, however minute, then what's the point?" EXACTLY! Our existence is fueled by narcissism! The same narcissism which causes suffering in the first place! Madara WAS right. The Infinite Tsukuyomi is the way.
I loved the video! Good job!
thank you!!! :)
Naruto has easy speaking, hes the choosen one, has great genetics, great teachers, sure his backstory is sad but what if he didnt even had the potential to become a ninja. He could have hard worked all he wanted and it would have never worked, he even would had to accept it and become miserable. At the end he would have snapped one day releasing kurama and letting him destroy the village. Naruto was very lucky to be the main charakter in an Anime.
THISS!! You hit all the points, and I'd honestly love to see any kind of counterargument too.
very interesting video buddy! keep it up!
thank you! very glad you enjoyed :)
Great job! Loved it!
Thanks so much!
I totally agree...actually madaras philosophy is some what similar to mine and i can relate well
The most deepest word than any quotes from philosophycal anime ever ->02:08
A lot of Narutos characters ties into the Bamboo Cutter tale, which talks about men not getting what they want.
Minato: "fastest man alive"
Always late when it really matters.
Hashirama: "Children don't have to die anymore with the founding of the village"
Then has his cells used to perpetrate child murder through experiments so that his cells then can be used in warfare.
Madara: "Wants everyone to wake up to reality and make a better world"
Forcefully tries to put everyone asleep.
I feel like Madara is a walking contradiction. He also talks a lot about peace but gets a hard on whenever he meets Hashirama because he can't wait to get a fight.
Madara with "Wake Up To Reality", he meant that the world wasn't roses and flowers and the longer you lived in It, the more you realized how much dark It Is. He did not mean that the Shinobi World should focus on making a better world, especially because he himself knows perfectly well that no matter how kind you are and try to bring peace like Naruto and Hashirama did, eventually people will find an excuse to wage war again
Well he was a child soldier that's been fighting/challenging his friend all his life so of course he would like fighting and especially someone he believes is equal/his better
Great Video!
ty!
If madara was real i would follow him and his Mindset no matter what, this Reality and Life Sucks so yes for me Madara is the Hero.
Of course madara was right the shnobi system is hell no wonder many people become villains the world broken them I mean every character has a tragic back story end 33 proves madara was right the shnobi world is dark and cruel
definitely true that every single character had some form of tragic backstory, Madara was definitely trying to make things the best he could make them for everyone
@@monkfruit like kimimaro says I am not afraid of the dark I was born in it for a child to say that shows how dark the naruto world is and naruto is idiot he thinks that friendship can bring peace he thinks like child he is too naive and idealistic he way of thinking won't work in the real life
@@monkfruit I am glad that someone the madrara was right you if really think about many of villains were right nagato was right about the cycle of hatred madrara was right about the shnobi system being hell zabuza was right about shnobi being used by thier vliages as tools and neji was right about destiny naruto is the child destiny many of them had a better understanding about the world than naruto
@@dytgyfgyffuh243 yeah, I definitely think that confronting the curse of hatred and having SO MANY different perspectives is one of Naruto's greatest strengths as a series. Really glad you liked the video man :)
@@monkfruit do you think they had better understanding about the world than naruto
9:56 yes this is the point i love the most, it explains the characters of madara obito itachi, pain and sasuke, under the title of Akatisuki, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, as long as people out there that both suffer the same pain, there can be no hate, you actually become grown because of the pain and set aside old struggles in order to face a new struggle together, now if the threat continue to grow in scale, the shinobi world will always look pass its childish quarrels and join forces to take that threat out, looking at it that way it makes sense that conflict is needed for peace to be mentained, but if that conflict is an external force outside the shinobi world, then peace will be maintained.
Does not that explain how we feel about anime? For a lot of us, real life is worst to deal with, real world issues suck, so we escape with anime and enter a dream world with adventures and battle and innovation and emotions of great scale, if you compare it to that then it makes sense
But at some point you must realized that kind of happiness is not real and are only temporarily. Problem are there to be overcomed, not escaped.
@@rabbss830the IT allows you to set hardships and struggle if that's what you'd desire, its not just pure bliss but your conscience and subconscious desires manifesting.
If you desire war like Madara you'd get it (without anyone actually being affected), you want Paradise you'd get it, you want a normal world but things are going well you'd get that.
People suffering from poverty, sickness and physical/sexual abuse won't have to go through that anymore.
Japanese would 'extinct' with that mindset.
This makes me think. We didn't need for a story about aliens as a follow up to Naruto. Two Blue Vortex is great right now, howeber, we could have gotten something much greater.
Instead of aliens, we could have gotten a new group of people who had been sufferring their whole lives. When their Infinite Tsukuyomi dream came to an end, they wanted it back so much, they began to do the akatsuki's plan all over again. But this time, it's not war that brings sufferring, it's literally the world amd how some higher ups can treat the lower class.
It's hard to explain what exactly I mean here, but I think you get the idea?
Madara was right but in the words of Integra Hellsing: "You're not entirely wrong. You just didn't have to be an a$$hole about it."
Of course he is right but it’s too enticing to think that paradise is right if we give up on reality.
I believe that there is one thing that goes unmentioned. Humanity itself, one of its key characteristics, is to be able to have choices. It could be as small as what color shirt to wear, or to buy one pair of shoes or the other. The point is, on the large scale, fate may be unchangeable. But the small details, those are ones own "free will." Most people will never be really influential, or have their names known world wide. That is the truth. But Humanity strives to try either way. Its part of what makes us human. The Infinite Tsukuyomi robs humans of that. It is not good or bad, right or wrong, it just takes away all choices. Yes, it makes it easier to live. hard decisions don't have to be made. But, It also doesn't allow for the momentary pleasures that feel all the much better, or human growth, the thing that is most important, what makes us us.
If dream is good than that is better than reality.
Everyone’s struggle, some achive and rest of them get nothing but failure.True thing is no one is leading a good life. Most of the human Desire never full fill. Most of the himan struggle. We are only a slave of our true goal nothing else.
Infinite tsukuyomi is 100% right, if we can not figured out it is not the reality than what matter. This is fake but 1000 time better than reality. A good dream is better than anything.
Human bron, strugle, suffer and then die.
Reality is hopples and crule.
Great job and very intelligently stated, however I would like to quote Arthur Schopenhauer to make my point. "There is only one inborn error and that is the notion that we exist in order to be happy". Life is innately about suffering, suffering in the old context of movement or journeying, as well as misery and pain. I believe its our God given right to suffer and choose what our lives and destinies are beyond what life throws at us. I do understand Madara's thinking, as a parent and friend I can see how this could be attractive. However for me personally, I reject this notion and would never want it placed on me. My life has never been easy, but it has been real and it has forged me into someone who is learnt and capable in different realms and spheres. I guess it's the ideological difference that comes into place, for me anything artifical is artificial. The soul would know, and the spirit would find a way to figure it out. Just like the copper tops waking up and fighting the machines in the matrix. I guess I'm more like Guts (Berserk) than Madara ideologically, I rather keep fighting and bleeding as a human than live in some false dream utopia. We will all die but in that dream world, would we truly live? All the beautiful aspects of life that happen either because or despite pain, would be lost and that existence would be blissfully hollow.
glad you liked it! :)
Now this. This is what was saying (albeit a lot more intelligent said), life isn’t exactly about finding happiness or really about anything at all.
It just is, humans are the ones who seek purpose where there is none, other humans each purpose and so on and so forth.
If I live an eternal stagnant heaven. What is there to be happy anymore? When happiness becomes the norm then it stops being happiness, if there’s no low to make the highs feel that much better then what’s the point?
It’s not that Madara is wrong because everything that is created is an illusion, it’s that everything within the genjutsu robs humans of their humanity.
So just continue the cycle of suffering for the sake of it?
@@fayelis better to stay to true oneself than chase an empty fantasy land
@@anhthai7005 reality does not have inherent value in itself.
Nice video! But next time try to put the volume of the music a bit down it was sometimes hard to hear what you say
Watch all of Boruto be an illusion from Madara’s dream spell.
Now that'd be long term planning, or just reveal that Sasuke legit used his Sage of Six Paths powered Rinne Sharingan to more or less recreate the Infinite Tsukuyomi because given that Sasuke's Rinne Sharingan far surpasses Madara's I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard for him to do this, especially since the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the moon reflects the Rinne Sharingan just like Kaguya used
There is something in suffering, as in sadness, as in struggling. Happiness is not grand enough to make up the absence of sadness and suffering.
Sometimes you must hurt in order to know, fall in order to grow, lose in order to gain, because life's greatest lessons are learned through pain
Good for you that you accepted your gonna see your loved ones get killed so that you to grow as a person :)
Those lessons are only of instrumental value though in so far as they prevent further suffering or alleviate it, if suffering ceased to be then the lessons of life would be wholly unnecessary IMO.
It’s like being glad cancer exists because if all the losses incurred by it didn’t happen we wouldn’t have chemotherapy, chemo’s value clearly comes from the potential to alleviate a greater harm but I would sacrifice such invention any day if we could just eradicate any possibility of cancer/harm entirely.
This isn’t even to mention that most of the experiences by all sentient beings on earth don’t lead to further lessons or growth but merely an agonizing death, at least I don’t think starving children in Africa learn much as they’re dying of malnutrition.
The world also relies on the unwilling sacrifices of others for the benefit of the self, think of how many creatures with subjective experience have to go through hell only to be eaten alive/killed in slaughterhouses and that’s just a fact of how life works and how it is sustained.
In a world like the infinite Tsukuyomi, everyone wins, no one has to be sacrificed for the benefit of others and life’s lessons are unnecessary (not to mention you can still get the pain and conflict within the ninjutsu if you really desire it this time without the necessary but unwilling harm to anyone).
You will do all those in a Tsokunomi as well
Without struggle, without suffering there is no potential for growth for every indivual.
hm maybe! i personally think I'd rather have guaranteed happiness than growth but that's just me haha
@@monkfruit i agree with that, plus the infinite tsukiyomi dream isn’t “everything is good and happy” it’s your truest desire, if you wish to go through stuff and grow from it, you will
@@demetriustyson4418 interesting point, i didnt consider that.
Growth is only of instrumental value, it’s only good because with more wisdom and strength you can overcome future suffering or at least alleviate the current one, growth has never been valuable in and of itself.
Think of fertilizer and chemotherapy, both were the result of our growth to try and overcome the suffering of hunger and cancer, but I wouldn’t say I’m glad hunger and cancer exist because we managed to grow through them resulting in these inventions but rather that these inventions derive their value from helping to overcome the suffering. I think you’d agree that it’s better if neither ever existed.
The infinite Tsukuyomi allows you to go through struggle if that’s what you desire anyway just that the rest of the creatures on earth who don’t value the same get to experience what they want without deprivation or suffering so it’s a win-win anyway.
To not cast the infinite Tsukuyomi is to pretty much render those whose lives are defined by torture (a lot of humans and almost all sentient nonhuman animals) into cannon fodder to be unwillingly sacrificed for the continuation of a world mostly defined by torture.
@@Sometuy11Awhy would you if you're in a dream living out your deepest desires? No sickness, no death, like bro.
Black pilled af. However I kinda agree...
For me the begging of the infinite tsukyomi was the whole shippuden and boruto arcs .
4:54 madara actually gives people free will, since the tsukuyomi lets people live their perfect lives and dreams… so… their choice, lol
Even with kaguya aspect is it really black and white? I’m not so sure if they are still in their own reality who cares what happens to their body
its just so sad that, hashirama, jiraiya, yahiko and maybe others dream about peace, when everyone understand each other pain, can be achieve by uniting to fight a common enemy (madara, obito)
its like, the achieved peaceful era by Hero Naruto, is because Madara, and Obito exist
Yeah Madara is a gee
If it doesn’t matter if you live in a world of truth, only if you are happy, then you can reverse the argument. No matter how much you try to be happy there is no inherent value of it rather than feeling good inside. If you completely rip off the flesh human ideas and show the bones, it is based on the subjective. Eventually, there is just emotion, no rational thought.
Love madara he was my fav naruto villan, but im more into characters like batman, morpheus(from sandman comics) and even now i like boruto, and if u watched tv show or watched the comic u would know about that sand episode or issue (bassiclly he has his sand and he can put people into dreams etc. and some girl gets addicted to it and she is like living in this fake reality where she is with her man and everything is perfect, but on outside shes like corpse and she dies when that sand is taken away from her)
And that reminded me of infinite tsukuyomi, fake reality where ue body is rooting and ur real life is forgoten. And yes living in world where there is no bad thing happening to you seems really good but im christian and i belive in heaven. I also belive that heven is place where only good thing happend, and u can relive ur happy memories and all u do is making new good memories. And cuz of that i see this life like a test, i want to be best version of myself and i dont look at death like worst thing that happend but i also dont want to die young. We all have one life on earth and we should expirience it fully, point is to have as much as fun here (like partying but not too much that we became addicted to alcohol, drugs etc, earn money but not too much so we become addicted to it, u get what im saying) and also like good things are part of your life so are bad, we only have one it may not be perfect but its at least real. My mother has s
Part 2.
My mother has schizophrenia and i was watching movie called beautiful mind (2001) its about genius with schizophrenia. And its like there are all these events and people that u are not sure that are real, and now imagine all u love and care about are just part of your imagination, imagine now naruto.. he loves hinata, has his children boruto and himawari and manny other things and he dies and goes to heaven, there is hinata and all his firends he made in dream and none of them are real, none of them lived same dream as he has etc. He would be pretty sad, even tho he had best 50years of his life in that dream none of it matters cuz its not real acctualy, so im saying, in real life yes he went through some really bad stuff but it only made his stronger ans better in some way, in the end he wont remeber these bad times cuz good times will overshine it, nostalgia is remembering only good things about ur past so the bad thing just come and go but good things say with you till the day u die. It doesnt matter if its bad now cuz at the end its gonna be good. If u got to this part j want to thank you. I have been thinking about this past 2 or 3 days and i had to say it. I really like life even if i didnt before and id be verry happy if this helped anyone cuz i have been there and i eish you best in life❤❤❤
Madara was right.
Madrara was end 33 proves it
Everybody with high iq would sign up for it dont be foolish
100 percent agree
indeed
Is there a single RUclipsr who thinks that Madara wasn’t right?
haha well saying Madara was wrong doesn't really make the most clickable video u know
As much as I personally would love the infinite tsukuyomi. It has two flaws when applying it to the real world, firstly, you have to think about whether there's people who deserve an infinite tsukuyomi like criminals and other bad people.
Secondly, we have to be aware of things outside of the genjutsu on Earth, like natural disasters, potential asteroids hitting earth, and whatnot as well as the reality that the universe is a finite existence it will come to an end. An infinite thing within a finite thing will ultimately come to an end when that finite thing ends as well.
So to conclude: 1. Not everyone deserves it. 2. It's generally impractical.
Edit: I also forgot to mention that it's unfair to deprive past and deny future generations of good people from experiencing the infinite Tsukuyomi. In regards to the inner peace paradox, I completely disagree since the infinite tsukuyomi is practically heaven true bliss also creates inner peace and your good experiences will infinitely be good it defeats any paradoxes.
People of Madara's caliber are casually splitting moons. I don't think anyone has to worry about asteroids and natural disasters ruining the experience. the god tree is extremely durable. As for the finitude of the universe, well, everyone in the Shinobi world will simply be long gone by the time it arrives, so it doesn't really matter.
Future generations would never come to be with everyone in the genjutsu, so there's no one being deprived here, as deprivation is a feeling exclusive to conscious creatures.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice the application of it to the real-world part, though I guess it doesn't matter if you're in the simulation and something destroys it; you'll just go from feeling absolutely bliss to feeling nothing at all and not realize what even happened-not ideal but not exactly something you'll feel harmed by.
Madara is the true savior of the world, because He used His godly powers to bring true happiness and peace to ALL living things in the world.
Meanwhile, naruto used his to shut down other people's suffering/trauma (talk-no-jutsu) and perpetuate the Kage system, which as the Hokage, only benefits himself.
@Monkfruit i get the defense but i don't think the otsutsuki count as a valid arguement against the peace
naruto brought to the world since they are literally aliens that come from space.
How they Reproduce in tsukiyomi ?
They do just not for real
Yeah though not everyone deserves happiness, the world is perfect you just can't see it, no one is fit to make worlds accept the Devine creator aka God
Naruto way of peace is wrong but he stopped that minded set of taking the worlds hatred because of itachi, Naruto used the concept of shadow clone jutsu, a united equal force that’s unstoppable and never ending, true teamwork
He was right, but trying to force people to do the right thing is where he went wrong. People, even irl, need to learn on their own. No one is coming to save you once you’re grown.
right but people can still be the victims of unfortunate circumstances. Disease, war, etc. Everyone isn’t given a fair and equal chance in our own world irl so tbh in a world like naruto’s it makes even more sense.
The idea of everyone living their best life, free to do as they please with no consequences to others because of it kinda seems like the perfect world to me. But only if you can’t be aware of it
So you'd rather let bad people hurt innocent people irl so those innocent people can learn... something? About how life sucks and is unfair? Does them taking revenge when justice isn't meted out make them bad people too?
And IF those bad people, their innocent loved ones have to just take and suffer, so they can learn something... too?
@ No one came to save me, they tried to make it worse in fact. I had to learn the hard way cuz no one can teach anyone the hard lessons. That’s why if they didn’t learn as kids they either will never learn or they will get it brutally and it’s never pretty or fair. It’s always best to focus on the kids and let the grown folks fuck themselves.
Tbf here I have tried, and my efforts have always been wasted. People I know that I have tried to help still smoke crack, beg for money, are homeless, unemployed, joined a gang, are racist, afraid of people/being social, etc etc etc.
People don’t listen cuz they think they know better. Until they eventually learn and holy fuck do they get it bad, some are dead due to drugs and gangs, some are locked up. Though some have a wife and kids, and decent careers now, it’s not all bad. But it is mostly bad.
Can you analysis kawaki character
It would've been so much better if they just ignored her kaguya. Cut it at madara, that'd have been enough
Also, I disagree the truth maters euthanasia is fun and all but you can't have the good without the bad. It is easy not just but that's just me
Only one downside, humans would extinct. Either short-term because no new children can be born. Or long term through cataclysm because we fail to become multi planetary.
Only counter argument i have, what if all the suffering is for progressing towards a better future, to extend human life. Would it be worth? Jesus and Ed Snowden would probably say yes.
And who’d be there to realize any of this happened and be hurt by it?
@@Tskuyomi28 Progress mostly gets its value from solving our problems if there are no problems there is no value in progress (See some of my other comments on this video).
Whether it’s worth it or not is entirely subjective so you should be asking yourself that.
Do u have a discord server?
not yet haha, hopefully one day :)
Everything you said is nice and all. But isn’t the infinite tsukuyomi will kill everybody? So yeh everyone live a happy life then die. But theres no way to reproduce. So my simple point is the plan is bad because it will just be the end of mankind.
It would be an infinite matrix where you live an infinite cycle of perfect lives of your own creation.
i disagree with this video, and the reason was because he tried to away ppl's freedom who didn't want that, he also was walking contradiction bcuz he wanted to end battle yet he was the most one who enjoy to have a battle and find someone who's stronger than him, that's why he end up failing and getting stab by zestu who he tought he was his will, madara betray himself to reach a level of kaguya but failed bcuz he was human and human can't become goods!! what actually madara want to control and rule the wrold, also putting ppl in fake world is just like someone who start to feel satisfaction whenever strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
And your parents, your boss, your government, society as a whole, don't take away your freedom either?
It's a world without breathing, moving, eating, making offspring, this world sounds like trash and would eventually lead to the human race dying out. And with what we know, everyone would have been turned into a Zetsu, so people would die out and this would be the worst possible thing for anyone, who could actually agree with Madara either way? I would rather fight in a war and die over being wrapped up and turned into a Zetsu or shriveling up and feeding a tree in a dream, both are trash.
Wll tecknically speaking since Itachi allowed his girlfriend Izumi live a complete and happy life in like a nanosecond in the light novels this would actually work. Of course its kinda a moot point considering the infinite tsukuyomi was complete bs that Black Zetsu used to manipulate the reincarnations of Indra to help him get Kaguya back. So while humanity has a good dream the human race dies out as everyone is turned into White Zetsus. Plus Madara caused a lot of evil and many wars and hell he basically loved fighting more than anything so even if his want for peace is somewhat genuine he was still extremly hyppocritical about it. His whole plan was actually more about stroking his ego and show off his power as what really matters was that he was the one who brought peace. We also see just how far he has fallen in the present as he basically was the root of all the bad things in the world to a degree. Also considering the whole plan was just a way to resurect Kaguya it was clearly doomed from the start.
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I like your points but I have to respectfully disagree. The purpose of life is not happiness but meaning. A life of only pleasure, happiness, and peace is a meaningless one. Consider why suicide rates are highest in prosperous well developed nations. We actually need the adversity and struggle in order to grow as humans. When happiness is divorced from pain and struggle it loses all meaning. I think this is what kishimoto was trying to suggest by having those trapped in the dream world too long becoming white zetsu.
Tell the people who've struggled their whole lives and never achieved happiness that they shouldn't wish for IT and should just keep struggling...
@ thats not the point I was making. The issue is far more nuanced than the childish myopic perspective of “if it feels good then it is good”. Only children believe pleasure is the end goal of life. That’s why we have to parent them and restrict their access to things like video games and candy.
The mate wanted to bring the matrix, pretty evil end goal.
Terrible take. The matrix isn't a world of joy
He wasn't ever right. The egoistic character of his clan wasn't right. True happiness lies in the mutual help, if I make everybody around me better and happier, then WE are happy doubled. If I spread hate and dominance, I make a chain which will affect not only me, but also my close ones. That's the thing egocentric Madara couldn't understand and was he's downfall. Success achieved by stepping on others heads is no success at all. Even if you achieve it, you can only share it with emptiness, so it's meaningless.
Your comment is very difficult to follow.
You are basically explaining why Sasuke was right and Naruto wrong all along.
An entire video explaining why what accounts to slavery is good. If it's REALLY a dream you have no control over it, it's just what your mind thinks up. A life of nothing but luxury, of never having to earn anything, of never having to strive for something, invalidates what it means to be alive and a conscious person and takes away from the achievements of everyone before and after. Anyone who would want to live in that type of false world has never strived for anything and has never wanted for anything of meaning.
And the masses working dead-end wageslave jobs to make a few people into billionaire isn't slavery?
If you seriously think Madara was right you need counseling tbh.
Living in an illusion is just another way to run away from your problems.
Facing them is what us, well… Us. Illusions no matter how sweat can’t exactly replicate reality, because reality is what one takes from it and when reality is robbed of all nuance then it stops being reality.
This is primarily why I kinda despise the concept of “perfection”
@@anhthai7005 The terms illusion and reality only hold meaning when you can differentiate between the two. The Infinite Tsukuyomi doesn't allow for this, so it basically would be reality by every sense of the world. I think Madara was right, because ironically, the Infinite Tsukuyomi is the most free thing imaginable.
@@zemox2534Why don't you say this to those people who were born with disabilities or an orphan, I can bet You're commenting on this while sitting inside an Ac room, and live with your father's money.
@@limbo9993 you still take away ppl freedom who didn't want that, and that's still illusion just like someone who fail satisfaction when he strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
No winners no losers, literally just salty he can't beat Hashirama. Hell tobirama was right.
Im sorry but Madara was wrong
What makes you think he was wrong, He tried to save everyone, Even in real life People are suffering outside, Crime etc, People born with disabilities it's funny How people, give statements, While sitting in an Ac room.
@@iamvengeance4583 he tried to away ppl's freedom who didn't want that, he also was walking contradiction bcuz he wanted to end battle yet he was the most one who enjoy to have a battle and find someone who's stronger than him, that's why he end up failing and getting stab by zestu who he tought he was his will, madara betray himself to reach a level of kaguya but failed bcuz he was human and human can't become goods!! what actually madara want to control and rule the wrold, also putting ppl in fake world is just like someone who start to feel satisfaction whenever strart watching porn for the first time! it's fake!! we're human because we can decide we don't want anyone to take our freedom so yes madara was wrong
@@falconx4803 Still, Madara is not wrong. If Madara not forcing it to other people but let people to choose where they want life in mugen tsukuyomi or not, hes not wrong. He just wrong because forcing it to the other.
@@falconx4803and are you free to sleep in and tell your boss to f off when he asks why you skipped work without losing your job?