We know Iroh was helping the avatar because he was already a white lotus member from the start, we just don't learn about this until it's revealed at the end.
@@garlicsalt317no it didn't, the white lotus had been an organization for many centuries, possibly MILLENIA. They're just an extremely secret organization so no one even knows about their existence. The red lotus split from them after the events of the last Airbender because they felt it got too close to the avatar, but the white lotus existed to keep balance when the avatar couldn't or wouldn't. That's why the red lotus came into being in the first place because they didn't believe the white lotus was holding the avatar accountable enough.
I love Uncle Iroh and Zuko's relationship. Iroh understood that Zuko had to come to these realizations himself and that he couldn't force or rush the process of Zuko's growth. But even though Iroh understands zuko's character to be kind and ultimately antithetical to the fire nation's values, he doesn't know whether Zuko will choose the right path in the end. He might have faith in Zuko, but he doesn't presume that he has control over zuko or can make him choose the right path. Even though that sounds obvious, I think respecting someone's individual personhood and decisions the way Iroh does with Zuko is rare (esp with parental figures and the people they raise)
Plus they had a dire time limit. Out of all people, Iroh must definitely have known that Ozai was planning on destroying everything when Sozin's Comet arrived. All Iroh did was what he could and hoping Zuko would realize these things for himself soon enough.
You forgot in the episode The Waterbending Scroll, when Zuko captures Katara and then the pirates bring Aang and Sokka, Katara apologizes and says it's all her fault. Aang says it's not her fault, but then Iroh contradicts him saying "Yeah, it kind of is" and throws her an annoyed look. He came across as irritated that Katara got herself and the Avatar caught. Probably because he doesn't want to do anything directly sabotaging Zuko, but if Aang was caught, he'd have no choice.
My understanding was he was practicing neutral Jing from even before he was attacking ba sing se. He was playing his part in the fire nation. Waiting and listening hoping he would take the throne and slowly end the war. But when his throne was usurped, he was defeated and his son died. He felt like he had nothing. Went traveling to learn more about the world. Came back and took Zuko under his wing. When Zuko was banished he went with him, hoping to guide Zuko as he was the crown prince of the fire nation.
Wasn't the reason ozai gave to azulon about him taking iroh's birthright the fact that he was defeated and lost his son? (Meaning that happened before the usurpation)
Yeah the white lotus tile up his sleeve is just foreshadowing, he is very clearly helping aang in that scenario once youve finished the series and rewatched it. They didnt just accidentally choose that he loses that tile by accident or somerhing, theyre putting the pieces there and if you remrmber them you are reqarded later on when the whote lotus is unveiled yo the viewer. They do iy later on with Sokka's master as well, he gives then a white lotus tile as well. The fact it was up his sleeve also adds onto the intent too - you are right about that. These are pieces put in the show intentionally because they knew how Iroh was going to to end up from the start, but for first time viewers they havent seen enough of iroh to know his intent at first so you dont expect its a tool used outside of the game (or within it i guess) to find other white lotus members in secret code. That is also just like the Lion Turtle, theee are 3 or so parts throughout the show where they mention lion turtles and so rhey are trying to add those easter eggs before the final episode - i wish there'd have been MORE foreshadowing about the lion turtles though, they didnt mwntion them enough and they ahouldve at least added a bit where someone tells them about lion turtles briefly, like a part of lore/myth about how they were the original entities that gave people the ability to perform bending, but they could've portrayed that person as being crazy or something so we as viewers doubt what they're saying makes sense. Hell, aang could've even just eead about it in the library, if they would've given it just a little bit extra time in (spelling?) wan shi tong's library when aang finds the book about lion turtles it would've been great.most people wont remember the lion turtle's mention because its just THAT BRIEF when aang brings it up, he just says "look this is about liob turtles!!!" As he shows the page to the gaang and the viewers, and then its done. They should've given just a LITTLE more about them so it didn't seem so damn random. I gotta sayz after finishing the show like 5 times its clear they knew aang would meet a lion turtle that would help him defeat ozai, but to the average person it just seems way yoo random.
My first thought when I read the title was all his antics in 'The Waterbending Scroll' so I'm glad you brought it up. Tbh it was pretty clear from the get-go that Iroh wasn't remotely invested in the hunting the Avatar like Zuko was - if he was he'd have got the job done in Ep.2 as the Gaang are flying away. Zuko & Iroh 'shoot' at them together, but given how much of a master firebender Iroh was, I have no difficulty believing he'd have successfully shot them down there & then had he been so inclined to go full force rather than lazily give a half-assed attempt that still matched Zuko's best, so as to not arouse suspicion.
Yes!!! I’ve thought this for so long. In the second part of the pilot when aang goes into his room and he’s fast asleep- I always thought that was iroh not wanting to reaaaallly capture aang and pretending to be asleep but I always thought that was just my personal head cannon
Another amazing Avatar video from monkfruit! Very logical arguments! Keep producing such great work. Iroh had so much wisdom and a great sense of humor. I wonder how different the world would have been if only he had become the fire nation lord!
It was also probably a good idea for him to get out of the capital and away from his crazy murderous brother especially since he was the rightful heir to the throne. I always thought he worked so hard on helping Zuko become a better man in the hopes he would take the throne back from his crazy father and right the wrongs of the past. And in raising the next fire lord he also gets to put his legacy on the throne basically taking it back from the usurper using his own blood without anyone even realizing it
Season 3 forces this reinterpretation of seasons 1 and 2, but I don't like the whole white Lotus reveal: Bumi, Jeong Jeong and Pakku all work better as the single characters with their individual world view and goals they appear as in season 1 and this holds for Iroh, too. Iroh being there for Zuko while not caring about anything else is a better story than Iroh secretly working towards ending the war the whole time.
Hmm I respectfully disagree. I think that Iroh having values of his own allows him to guide Zuko to the right path, if he truly cared about nothing else then he would just support Zuko no matter what he did and I personally think it's way cooler that Zuko is forced to make a real choice between iroh and ozai
Yeah, I noticed a bunch of points in the show where Iroh was covertly helping Aang by either not helping as much as he could/pretending to be preoccupied, and/or "playing dumb." One example is when he was "sleeping" in episode 2 and came out yawning while Aang escaped. On my most recent re-watch, I felt like he was pretending to be tired and confused so Aang could get away, because we all know if he wanted to he could have jumped into action immediately and whooped ass. He could have definitely helped to stop Aang from getting away in that moment, if he *wanted to*. One thing I wanted to point out though about your video though; the type of clothing Iroh is wearing is based on Traditional Japanese attire, which typically has pockets in the sleeves. So it's not odd that he had the lotus tile in his sleeve -- though I agree with you that he just pretended to lose it in order to secretly help the Avatar. :)
Ever since his adventure to the spiritual world in search for his son, by that point he had chose good and left all of his fire nation beliefs in the past. He was also a member of the white lotus which supported the avatar and aimed to create balance in the world. He was in fact stalling the entire series because he knew zukos path too well, as his brother took the exact same path zuko was taking in season 1.
I don’t think these instance are for aangs sake but rather for zuko’s he knows this obsession Zuko has is unhealthy and wants Zuko to relax and just move on with his life It is not to do with helping the avatar but rather trying to get zuko to be less obsessed.
all these evidences are just over-intepreting from audiences perspective, and to say that he actively sabotaged Zuko's mission is far reaching. No he didn't help much in capturing the avatar even if he can on many occasions, but he also did not interfere Zuko's path on finding his own destiny unless Zuko put his life in danger. All his actions came out of his own take-it-easy and benevolent character. Iroh pretty much saw the whole finding the Avatar thing a long vacation for him and his nephew to take their minds off the trauma fire nation has inflicted on them. If Iroh were to sabotage the whole mission, he would have done something in season one, when he found things not under his control. Say when Zhao captured Aang, Iroh and Zuko would both come to rescue because that was when Aang was truly in danger.
Yea that water bending scroll episode was kind of off for me tbh. The white lotus in his sleeve never sat righted with me. Glad someone else thought it was weird. But I never considered he was secretly working in Avatars favors then.
Of course he is secretly helping the avatar. He is a member of the white lotus which exists directly to assist the avatar
Glad u agree!
I agree but the white lotus only became a organization to help the avatar after the series ends
We know Iroh was helping the avatar because he was already a white lotus member from the start, we just don't learn about this until it's revealed at the end.
@@garlicsalt317no it didn't, the white lotus had been an organization for many centuries, possibly MILLENIA. They're just an extremely secret organization so no one even knows about their existence. The red lotus split from them after the events of the last Airbender because they felt it got too close to the avatar, but the white lotus existed to keep balance when the avatar couldn't or wouldn't. That's why the red lotus came into being in the first place because they didn't believe the white lotus was holding the avatar accountable enough.
I love Uncle Iroh and Zuko's relationship. Iroh understood that Zuko had to come to these realizations himself and that he couldn't force or rush the process of Zuko's growth. But even though Iroh understands zuko's character to be kind and ultimately antithetical to the fire nation's values, he doesn't know whether Zuko will choose the right path in the end. He might have faith in Zuko, but he doesn't presume that he has control over zuko or can make him choose the right path. Even though that sounds obvious, I think respecting someone's individual personhood and decisions the way Iroh does with Zuko is rare (esp with parental figures and the people they raise)
Plus they had a dire time limit. Out of all people, Iroh must definitely have known that Ozai was planning on destroying everything when Sozin's Comet arrived. All Iroh did was what he could and hoping Zuko would realize these things for himself soon enough.
You forgot in the episode The Waterbending Scroll, when Zuko captures Katara and then the pirates bring Aang and Sokka, Katara apologizes and says it's all her fault. Aang says it's not her fault, but then Iroh contradicts him saying "Yeah, it kind of is" and throws her an annoyed look. He came across as irritated that Katara got herself and the Avatar caught. Probably because he doesn't want to do anything directly sabotaging Zuko, but if Aang was caught, he'd have no choice.
Iroh just be chilling in the back in season one lol 😂 not even trying to capture the avatar
I always thought he didn't want to find the avatar, however I never thought about him actively sabotaging Zuko's hunt of Aang
yeah the evidence is definitely there!
The lotus tile was up my sleeve the whole time!!
*Zuko throws the tile off a cliff*
😂 that part was funny
My understanding was he was practicing neutral Jing from even before he was attacking ba sing se. He was playing his part in the fire nation. Waiting and listening hoping he would take the throne and slowly end the war. But when his throne was usurped, he was defeated and his son died. He felt like he had nothing. Went traveling to learn more about the world. Came back and took Zuko under his wing. When Zuko was banished he went with him, hoping to guide Zuko as he was the crown prince of the fire nation.
Wasn't the reason ozai gave to azulon about him taking iroh's birthright the fact that he was defeated and lost his son? (Meaning that happened before the usurpation)
Yeah the white lotus tile up his sleeve is just foreshadowing, he is very clearly helping aang in that scenario once youve finished the series and rewatched it. They didnt just accidentally choose that he loses that tile by accident or somerhing, theyre putting the pieces there and if you remrmber them you are reqarded later on when the whote lotus is unveiled yo the viewer. They do iy later on with Sokka's master as well, he gives then a white lotus tile as well. The fact it was up his sleeve also adds onto the intent too - you are right about that. These are pieces put in the show intentionally because they knew how Iroh was going to to end up from the start, but for first time viewers they havent seen enough of iroh to know his intent at first so you dont expect its a tool used outside of the game (or within it i guess) to find other white lotus members in secret code.
That is also just like the Lion Turtle, theee are 3 or so parts throughout the show where they mention lion turtles and so rhey are trying to add those easter eggs before the final episode - i wish there'd have been MORE foreshadowing about the lion turtles though, they didnt mwntion them enough and they ahouldve at least added a bit where someone tells them about lion turtles briefly, like a part of lore/myth about how they were the original entities that gave people the ability to perform bending, but they could've portrayed that person as being crazy or something so we as viewers doubt what they're saying makes sense. Hell, aang could've even just eead about it in the library, if they would've given it just a little bit extra time in (spelling?) wan shi tong's library when aang finds the book about lion turtles it would've been great.most people wont remember the lion turtle's mention because its just THAT BRIEF when aang brings it up, he just says "look this is about liob turtles!!!" As he shows the page to the gaang and the viewers, and then its done. They should've given just a LITTLE more about them so it didn't seem so damn random. I gotta sayz after finishing the show like 5 times its clear they knew aang would meet a lion turtle that would help him defeat ozai, but to the average person it just seems way yoo random.
My first thought when I read the title was all his antics in 'The Waterbending Scroll' so I'm glad you brought it up.
Tbh it was pretty clear from the get-go that Iroh wasn't remotely invested in the hunting the Avatar like Zuko was - if he was he'd have got the job done in Ep.2 as the Gaang are flying away.
Zuko & Iroh 'shoot' at them together, but given how much of a master firebender Iroh was, I have no difficulty believing he'd have successfully shot them down there & then had he been so inclined to go full force rather than lazily give a half-assed attempt that still matched Zuko's best, so as to not arouse suspicion.
Yes!!! I’ve thought this for so long. In the second part of the pilot when aang goes into his room and he’s fast asleep- I always thought that was iroh not wanting to reaaaallly capture aang and pretending to be asleep but I always thought that was just my personal head cannon
Ooh another really good example!!!
Another amazing Avatar video from monkfruit! Very logical arguments! Keep producing such great work. Iroh had so much wisdom and a great sense of humor. I wonder how different the world would have been if only he had become the fire nation lord!
Thanks for the support!!!!
I've been loving your videos bro, really killing it with the in depth aspects of different shows
Thank you for following along fam, appreciate u 🙏🏾
I need that from the beginning thank you for finally not missing me I am not alone❤
I SWEAR YOU GOT IT PERFECT XD
Another great video ❤️
Ayy thanks a lot Jacky, appreciate your constant support 💚
@@monkfruit I gotchu broo
Wow this is a very good theory
Lol it got you a new subscriber 🤞🏼
Loved this episode!
omg this is so right. i love iroh his story and teachings are incredible
Me too! Definitely one of the most unique characters I've ever come across
It was also probably a good idea for him to get out of the capital and away from his crazy murderous brother especially since he was the rightful heir to the throne. I always thought he worked so hard on helping Zuko become a better man in the hopes he would take the throne back from his crazy father and right the wrongs of the past. And in raising the next fire lord he also gets to put his legacy on the throne basically taking it back from the usurper using his own blood without anyone even realizing it
Iroh didn't "track" in Ba Sing Se. He captured a Dai Li agent & had a "conversation" with him.
Season 3 forces this reinterpretation of seasons 1 and 2, but I don't like the whole white Lotus reveal: Bumi, Jeong Jeong and Pakku all work better as the single characters with their individual world view and goals they appear as in season 1 and this holds for Iroh, too. Iroh being there for Zuko while not caring about anything else is a better story than Iroh secretly working towards ending the war the whole time.
Hmm I respectfully disagree. I think that Iroh having values of his own allows him to guide Zuko to the right path, if he truly cared about nothing else then he would just support Zuko no matter what he did and I personally think it's way cooler that Zuko is forced to make a real choice between iroh and ozai
Yeah I thought this was pretty obvious, he was manipulating zuko from the start but in a good way.
Yeah, I noticed a bunch of points in the show where Iroh was covertly helping Aang by either not helping as much as he could/pretending to be preoccupied, and/or "playing dumb." One example is when he was "sleeping" in episode 2 and came out yawning while Aang escaped. On my most recent re-watch, I felt like he was pretending to be tired and confused so Aang could get away, because we all know if he wanted to he could have jumped into action immediately and whooped ass. He could have definitely helped to stop Aang from getting away in that moment, if he *wanted to*.
One thing I wanted to point out though about your video though; the type of clothing Iroh is wearing is based on Traditional Japanese attire, which typically has pockets in the sleeves. So it's not odd that he had the lotus tile in his sleeve -- though I agree with you that he just pretended to lose it in order to secretly help the Avatar. :)
I mean, after Iroh is revealed to be the Grand Lotus, one has to pretty much conclude that he always worked, at least indirectly for Aang.
Ever since his adventure to the spiritual world in search for his son, by that point he had chose good and left all of his fire nation beliefs in the past. He was also a member of the white lotus which supported the avatar and aimed to create balance in the world. He was in fact stalling the entire series because he knew zukos path too well, as his brother took the exact same path zuko was taking in season 1.
I don’t think these instance are for aangs sake but rather for zuko’s he knows this obsession Zuko has is unhealthy and wants Zuko to relax and just move on with his life
It is not to do with helping the avatar but rather trying to get zuko to be less obsessed.
Poor Zuko though
you sound like mittensquad (RIP)
👏
Master manipulator and one of the strongest fire benders huh? Sounds like Azula has inherited Iroh's genes 🤨
lol i thought most people knew this
I thought he was helping zuko les and less ass time went on i guess he was never helping in the first place,
Except in episode 2 of course...
how u only got 300 ish views??
youtube success takes time my man, if you like the video and my channel feel free to share but i'm just doing my best every single day :)
I just finished rewatching avatar. Yes I know he sabotage zuko couple times so no his not underrated in my eyes
all these evidences are just over-intepreting from audiences perspective, and to say that he actively sabotaged Zuko's mission is far reaching. No he didn't help much in capturing the avatar even if he can on many occasions, but he also did not interfere Zuko's path on finding his own destiny unless Zuko put his life in danger.
All his actions came out of his own take-it-easy and benevolent character. Iroh pretty much saw the whole finding the Avatar thing a long vacation for him and his nephew to take their minds off the trauma fire nation has inflicted on them.
If Iroh were to sabotage the whole mission, he would have done something in season one, when he found things not under his control. Say when Zhao captured Aang, Iroh and Zuko would both come to rescue because that was when Aang was truly in danger.
Nice video, disrespectful title.
Yea that water bending scroll episode was kind of off for me tbh. The white lotus in his sleeve never sat righted with me. Glad someone else thought it was weird. But I never considered he was secretly working in Avatars favors then.