Dr. Mike, I just want to say that you have made me a much better personal trainer. I have 20 years of experience and taken many different certifications and have learned more form you on this channel than any of these other certs. And all of your content really applies to the general population that just wants to lose fat and build muscle. Keep up the good work. I hope to run into someday and thank you in person.
Thank you for constantly learning. Your clients are lucky. Countless buff dudes out there thinking they can be PTs because they look good (mainly due to genetics)
I always considered the main distinction to be that the SLDL is an *actual* deadlift, in the sense that the bar starts on the floor on every rep (the "dead" part"). The RDL is a partial SLDL where you don't lower the bar all the way to the floor to maintain tension (also seems to reduce stress on the lower back and personally I find it much easier on the hip joints).
I've heard people refer to RDL as the variant where you start from a rack, so the lift goes eccentric > stretch reflex > concentric (much the way bench or squat go) instead of concentric > lockout > eccentric
This is the way sensible people talk about the RDL, it's top down incorporating a stretch reflex, which is different from an SLDL which is truly a dead lift. idk why Mike chose this hill to die on and quibbling about some shit that happened 30 years ago is wack
I kinda always thought they were the same thing. I have heard from some peeps that a SLDL touches the floor, and an RDL doesn't, but always thought that it really depends on flexibility/mobility and body structure. This video NEEDED to be made! Thanks for clearing things up like always Mike!
I always drew the distinction between the two was that the RDL starts at the top and ends at the top, the SLDL starts at the bottom, ends at the bottom. Also, the RDL would stop once your hips couldn't travel back any further you would initiate the concentric portion. Where as the SLDL, you would go all the way down to the ground no matter how much the torso would go down even though the hips were already as far back as possible.
@@tanthai3653 One remains loaded throughout the entire rep scheme, the other is intentionally unloaded at the bottom(otherwise it is an RDL or some kind of cheated SLDL with your back in a compromised position)
@@KneeGrowDoingKneeGrowThings then do touch-and-gos, your maximising tension perhaps but not the amount of effort you need to get the weight moving. Muscles, ligaments/etc store energy which is why your tng's are easier after the first rep.
@@joeschmo2693 with SLDL I'd start from the floor and touch the floor each time pulling from a deadstop, with RDL I would unrack it at the top and not quite touch the floor each rep
Thanks Doctor Mike :D I’ve been subbed for almost a year and I’ve started to gain a reputation in my circle as “the guy that knows what he’s talking about” and I have you to thank for it ! This might be an interesting anecdote for you. I‘ve always been a calisthenics guy but I’m 36 now and I’ve just started doing RDLs in the last 9 months to help with my Hamstring Flexibility (low-to-moderate load, slow eccentric pause reps for upwards of 4 sets a session twice a week and I gotta say, when I started, I had to maintain a ‘soft’ knee bend that was almost 45 degrees of knee flexion to accomodate for my lack of flexibility. Right now I’m very close to having almost locked out knees with the same stimulus to the hamstrings unless I intentionally keep them at a soft-bend. It took almost 9 months for them to loosen up and then there’s this unfortunate side effect lately where my hamstrings and ass has gotten bigger and beefier… and as I calisthenics guy I certainly can’t have that ! What will my peers think ! (Shock horror) there must be some truth to this stretch-mediated hypertrophy stuff they’ve been going on about. Can’t be sure though, need to do some kind of uhh… research or something on that. Thanks again and hope this like and comment gets you one step closer to your next Lamborghini
I thought it goes like this; SLDL: Deadlifts off the floor with straight / slightly bent legs RDL: emphasis on hamstring stretch while pushing glutes back as far as possible with straight legs, doesnt usually touch the floor
I've usually used the distinction that RDLs are as you described: focus on the eccentric, start from the top, more hips back with a bias to hamstrings and some glutes potentially with a slight knee bend. Whereas a SLDL is focussing on the concentric, pulling from the floor with a more open knee angle (ie less knee bend), less of a focus on eccentric and torso is more bent over. But I don't mind the terms being used interchangeably they are essentially the same movements after all.
Well the old joke in the gym was that this boy in Romania was not allowed to bang the weights so once he picked it up he would have to do his set continuously without the bar touching the ground, until he was done setting it down gently as to not make noise, basically preventing him from ever going to failure so that later made the distinction that a Romanian deadlift is where you don't set the bar down until you are done versus a stiff-legged where the bar may touch every single repetition. Same motor pattern but different loading on the nervous system
This is a fantastic one Dr Mike Thank you for all the clarification. Also I enjoyed that dee held in beltch after saying the words depth differences. Very appropriate timing.
I have always considered the RDL a top-down movement focussing on the eccentric component, and the SLDL a bottom-up movement focussing on the concentric. After carefully considering this video, this is how I will continue to define the two in a programming sense for myself and my clients. Thankyou.
Easy to do that when he literally not mentions the obvious distinction (starting from top vs bottom) *once* despite the quarter-hour lecture with PP and everything.
@@canererbay8842 it annoyed me when he said “oh it’s a spectrum of movement, there’s so many variations like wide grip or deficit” as if those aren’t distinctions already made on a written program.
@@strongmansam289 Dr. Mike didn't say those things don't matter, he just said they're distinctions. Variations. They're not different movements entirely.
I adore sldls, they’re the only deadlift variation I can challenge my glutes and hamstrings with without my back rounding cause it just puts them in a more difficult position. I have a super long torso and a weak back (I’m bringing it up) so deadlifts never felt right. I make the arbitrary separation in my training log for clarity cause I do them 3 different ways. An sldl is a dead stop with a full lockout and an rdl is without a lockout or dead also starting from the top position out of a rack. An sldl with a dead stop is more conducive to deadlift training because you have to set your back and brace from the bottom like in the conventional deadlift, it typically means some upper back rounding because you didn’t set your back before tensioning the hamstrings like an rdl starting from the top position, I do both because having variations is typically a good idea. I find dead stop sldls are also great for lower reps if you really wanna blow up your conventional deadlift, 3x3 or 3x5 even doing singles and cluster sets like speed work can be awesome, if your bottom position sucks you won’t be able to move the weight so it’s ultra strict.
@@TransNeingerian yeah I know but it looks ugly to me so I don’t like it, same reason I squat atg and pull conventional. Also I do have active rounding on heavy sets which is dangerous as you’ve said.
In my experience without delving into the historical context. I’ve always thought of the SLDL as a deadlift used to target the hamstrings with less knee flexion than the RDL. Whereas the RDL I would execute with slightly more knee flexion targeting a combination of both the glutes and hamstrings. Interesting to hear the origin of both terms
The way I was taught about it was SLDL start from the floor like a regular deadlift but you limit the knee bend as much as possible. An RDL is where you start at the top, lower down with a little bit more knee bend allowed and back to the top.
Hey Dr Mike Glad that YT Algo Recommended Your Videos I watched several of your YT videos about Glute exercises As I am Quad Dominant, Here what I gather to create a Focus & Growth Glute Program Don’t hesitate to correct me 1/I will start with Bulgarian Split Squat on Smith Machine =>Back leg on a Bench (I feel more my glute when my back leg is on a bench Vs Front Foot Elevated: don’t know why…) *3 sets of 10-20 reps per leg *Moderate weight *Pause at the bottom *Rest between each Leg 2/Hip Trust Machine: 3 sets of 10-20 reps *Light Weight *2sec Hold Top &squeeze glutes *30 sec Rest 3/Modify Deadlift : 3*10-15 reps => Bend Beginning with relatively straight knees As go down, let the knees come forward just enough not a big bend Pause at the bottom What Do you Think of the program? I must have missed your video talking about « Kick Back » exercice & « Hip Abductor machine » for the « side/round » booty : is it useful to do it? Thank in advance for your feedback
I am no doctoe neither my name is Mike but did you said that your training must be quad dominant? What uou do is more glute and hams dominate. Only the bulggarian split squad will put the focus on the guads if your leg is closer to the bench. Maybe I got it wrong but ur training style does not focus on quads but hey whatever works for you.
I always saw SLDL starting and ending on the floor, with straighter (slightly) legs, whereas RDL was starting from the top, not touching the ground with a slightly more bent knee and never really got why you guys always argued that they're the same. I see it now though, I get where you're coming from and can't disagree. All just part of a spectrum (cue 150 new names within the SLDL category 🙄).
I agree with you. They are different movements, kind of like how a pause bench and touch and go are different movements. SLDL being from a dead stop makes the bracing more important, and I see SLDL as a more specific movement for strength in the conventional DL whereas RDL are more capable of being taken into hypertrophy rep ranges. I don't think you can argue that an RDL is a type of SLDL, it's not. They're both types of deadlift, but RDLs can be done with more knee bend and with a dynamic knee, depending on whether you're biasing the hips or hamstrings.
Mike is great but he definitely has to concede this one. Ultimately names only.mean as much as they are used to describe, so when people ask sldl vs rdl we all know what they're asking so why get caught up in etymology?
Oly lifters don't need to lockout at the 'top' or hip. Hip is where the launching of the barbell really starts, and it's commonly called 'second pull'. For oly lifters, not locking out at the hip(top) is a pretty natural thing to do, because they have to launch from the hip. Also, as Dr. Israetel pointed out, locking out doesn't offer any significant stimulus. Thanks for the clear explanation. It can't be more clear than this.
I am Romanian and my ❤ melted when you said "Romanians are sweet" 😊. Cheers, dr. Mike To me, RDLs are more knee bend and a combination of hammies & glutes, while SDLs are less bend in the knees and more hammies 😊. I like both variations 🥰
The technique variations clear a lot of my concern up around all the interpretations / strict & single-option instructions from a lot of people of there
Personally completely agree. That rounded back, etc example you gave sounded a lot like a Jefferson Curl which a lot of people like to use and is also a variation of an SLDL. Sounds like the RDL is arguably the best variation for muscle growth, which is the goal of the channel.
I have posted the same thing without the detail saying RDL is a synonym for sldl that works the hamstrings more effectively than variations that stimulate your spinal erectors more heavily through flexion and extension vs. hip hinging movement with the erectors and abs bracing and stabilizing the spine while in extension during the entire set providing a more effective stretch on the hamstrings. I figured I was wrong after reading articles on channels with great information. When you provided the historical perspective it put things in perspective . A high bar squat and a low bar squat are simply ways of more clearly describing a general squat. Bar on back, descend to slightly below parallel or more and stand back up. Whether you lean or stay more upright is a function of both the bar position but moreso the length of your torso relative to your femur
I define them more by where I start the movement. For me, I start from a rack for an RDL, focused on the eccentric. I'm horrendously inflexible so mostly i can get a burn just below my knees. SLDL I don't really train my definition, which is from the floor. I also use the term RDL as it is easier to say and most people I talk to about training understand what I mean. I'm just an overweight hack who likes to lift weights, no PHD. i would like to shout out to Dr Mike and the rest of the RP team! Great content, I've recently incorporated a lot of training principles and exercise variations and have a renewed vigour to train. Some decent gains and strength progress from lots of your videos. Keep up the good work and all the best with your Lambo collection!
I always thought SLDL was with a dead stop on the floor and RDL was hovering just above the ground. I learned the just below the knee as the Dimel DL variation.
First of all - the shirt - I love it! And of course also thanks for the video. As usual good fun to watch, very informative and after doing rdls just yesterday I think the Internet is stalking me 🤣
In Olympic style weightlifting we like the bar close and shoulders in front of the bar, and definitely helps load the back like the lats which is super important to keeping positioning for snatch and clean. So not just massive hamstring hammering. That positioning might not translate in powerlifting or body building Just thought I'd add that perspective so people know why they do it like that and can choose if its important.
If you start at the top and control the stretch its an RDL if you start at the bottom and the main focus is the concentric its an sldl. You can't change my mind
JFYI: Nicolae "Nicu" Vlad (born 1 November 1963) is a retired heavyweight weightlifter from Romania. He competed for Romania at the 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996 Olympics and won a gold, a silver and a bronze medal. He won the world title in 1984, 1986 and 1990 and European title in 1985 and 1986 and set world records in the snatch in 1986 and 1993.
Dr Mike - no Lambo for you - just RUclips count $$. Three takeaways for me. Warm up with what you plan to lift. Do BASIC movements and build up. Explode Concentric Slow/expand Eccentric. And most of the details are not applicable if you don’t get your diet right. Loved crushing 475# bench with 50# dumbbell. Anything on reconnecting fast twitch - other than start moving a little faster and build up?
I KNEW IT. Also, with all the content I watched, nobody seemed to care about the etymology of the term "Romanian Deadlift". That's a real scholar right here.
When I was coaching Olympic lifts, we shied away from using traditional SLDL so that our clients wouldn’t lock out in the power position or second pull of the clean. SLDL are great for a hamstring strengthening/hypertrophy stimulus but it did confuse the muscle memory of some of our clients.
I know many powerlifters use the two terms to refer to differently performed exercises, not always for the purpose of just hamstring growth. For example, Dan Green uses the term "romanian deadlift" to refer to a stiff legged deadlift where you arch your entire back and never touch the ground, while he uses "stiff legged deadlifts" to refer to a stiff legged deadlift that does reset on the ground after each rep, and you allow your upper back to round more than in his "RDL". At the end of the day, what you're doing matters more than what you call it, and if it makes it easier to call something a certain term to memorize or track it or whatever, then I don't see the issue. It is easier to say "romanian deadlift" than "flat back non-ground touching stiff legged deadlift", or "stiff legged deadlift" than "thoracic rounding but lumbar flat stiff legged deadlift touching the ground each rep".
Ha! I trained at The Sports Palace in San Francisco and worked for Jim there. Some great lifters came through there. I remember that training day. I miss that place.
SLDL starts from and ends at the floor (or below, if deficit version) each rep whether in touch and go or dead stop style plus all other nuances that Dr. Mike mentioned. RDL is an SLDL that follows the opposite, and starts and finishes at the top position with all other nuances of SLDL applicable. This is what I could understand in simple words.
Crazy how life works....I was literally looking for a video like comparing these exercises on the RP channel this morning and couldn't find it....few hours later, it's uploaded 😂
Perhaps a distinction without a practical difference. With the RDL, I considered it to be used more as a Olympic lifting accessory and trains the 2nd pull movement (less ROM)
My understanding has always been that they're basically the same lift, expect the first rep of RDLs is pulled from the front of a rack, and the first rep of SLDLs are pulled from the floor. Though, I have in fact at times, had to pull the first rep of my RDL's from the floor when the racks were taken. So yeah, it's a bit of a distinction with out MUCH of a difference, though their is a slight difference.
I use RDLs with a hefty knee bend just below the knee to give my lower back TUT work. But I SDL with nearly straight legs to the floor to focus my hinging and blow up my hamstrings
In the general strength/ performance world they really are two different things, and I don't know how you missed this. A stiff legged deadlift is pulled from the ground, from a dead stop. It is basically a deadlift with the the quads taken out. The pull from the dead stop is more specific to the start of the deadlift. The systemic fatigue generated is slightly less than the deadlift because of the reduced load, but it hits the hamstrings harder, and usually hits the erectors better as well because the back is more horizontal. You are basically kicking out the leg muscles that cannot be developed by the deadlift (the quads) and hammering the ones that can (glutes, and hams). It can even be done as a substitute to the deadlift in base building phases, or a squat only block. If you get stronger without the quads then you should be stronger with them. The RDL allows you to use a stretch reflex, and thus you are training your ability to arrest momentum as opposed to breaking a weight from a dead stop. There is a different type of coordination involved than with the SLDL. It won't fatigue you as much as the stiffed legged deadlift because if you do it correctly it comes with a very reduced load. You can do it more frequently, and because you are under more constant load it let's you really practice staying tight. You can correctly say that the two work all of the same muscles, and in hypertrophy world that is all great, and a valid semantical argument. However in the strength and performance world there are two very different things happening, with very different programming implications, and very different criteria for choosing one over the other.
I don't think your assumption about RDL applies to everyone or that the load should be or is less than the SLDL. For people with great mobility, there is not much stretch reflex if they don't go "below the floor" and regarding the load, you can go and maybe should go really heavy on RDLs in some cases and it will be very taxing, maybe even more than the SLDL.
@@SamHamHam No I'm not wrong. In the SLDL you are able to be more neutral, or round your back a little more to get it to the bar. You may also have more knee bend. In an RDL that would be considered a cheat if we are going by it's normative use. That will allow more weight used on the SLDL. Even if you did modify an RDL to where you could use the same weight as the SLDL, the SLDL would still fatigue you more because you are pulling it from a dead stop. This isn't even controversial, it's well known that pulling from a dead stop is not just different, it's harder, and fatigues you more. Look you can probably make dozens of different use cases that would help Mike's argument look better on paper. However, that isn't going to change the fact that the normative uses of these lifts in the strength world, are very different. The idea that they are the same can only exist in super niched hypertrophy world.
@@leinekenugelvondoofenfocke1002 I am not sure what definition you are using for SLDL. All trainers that I have heard making the distinction between SLDL and RDL, say that in SLDL you must have the legs as stiff or straight as possible. Additionally a lot of athletes exploit the stretch reflex in the SLDL while repping the weight (they basically do bounce reps), a lot more than they do on RDL since they pause the reps while going down in RDL. Yes, loading is more difficult in what people know as RDL, but that is because they are weak in that movement and more disadvantaged due to leverages. Also, is getting potentially more fatigue a plus? Don't you want the best SFR?
@@SamHamHam These dudes you are hearing this from are from hypertrophy world. Yeah, you can bounce SLDLs, and probably get some good development, but you are doing something different than what we are referring too as SLDLs. You are not getting the practice pulling from a dead stop, and you are not getting the practice of arresting momentum. So at that point you are just doing hypertrophy work. That's not a bad thing, but it's a different thing than what we would be doing if performance was a factor. As far as RDLs go, as heavy as you can go, you should still be able to go heavier on an SLDL because it's just a stronger position. The RDL has the hamstrings as the limiting factor on purpose, and that limits load on purpose. On to your question on SFR. If you swap regular deadlifts out for SLDLs you have a better SFR, but you have higher specificity to the deadlift, and don't lose technical momentum. Because you still have to pull the slack out, and you still have to build tension to pull from a dead stop. You might consider doing this in a developmental phase, or a squat only block. The quads are not going to grow from the deadlift, it's a partial to them. So you are either Saving them for the squat, or removing them to distribute the stress to muscles that will actually grow for a while. Say you committed to adding 20 pounds to your SLDL, before switching back to regular deads. When you stop adapting well to the SLDL you can switch back to the deads, and you will then be stronger to benefit more from the deads. The RDL is something you would use as a light pull, while training deadlifts concurrently. It hits the hamstrings, and teaches good bracing. Those are two critical points in deadlifting. The lower fatigue allows this, the two lifts don't interfere with each other to the same extent as the SLDL would interfere with the deadlift. You would choose one over the other based on what else you have going on. If you were competing you would also take meet prep into consideration. Programming considerations for performance are going to be different, and that's where these movements are different.
This was a HUGE help to me!!! Have been thinking about this arching alot lately. I have been in this mindset where all arching is bad but it's not. Thank you. ✨👍
This sounds like a semantics argument to me. An RDL is a glute exercise in which you focus more on extending the hip and driving through with your glutes, whilst an SLDL is a hamstring exercise in which you focus more on getting a stretch on the hamstrings and using them, along with the lower back, to drive through.
This is what CHAT GPT said 😂😂 The Romanian Deadlift and the Stiff-Leg Deadlift are both effective exercises for strengthening the posterior chain, but they have some key differences in terms of technique and muscle focus. 1. Technique: - Romanian Deadlift (RDL): In the RDL, the knees are slightly bent and remain in this fixed position throughout the movement. The hips are pushed back as the torso hinges forward, keeping the barbell close to the body. The movement stops when the barbell reaches mid-shin level or when you feel a stretch in your hamstrings. - Stiff-Leg Deadlift (SLDL): In the SLDL, the legs are kept straight or almost straight, increasing the stretch and tension on the hamstrings. The barbell is also lowered closer to the toes, rather than mid-shin. 2. Muscle Focus: - Romanian Deadlift: The RDL primarily targets the glutes and hamstrings, but also works the lower back and core. - Stiff-Leg Deadlift: The SLDL places more emphasis on the hamstrings, but also works the glutes, lower back, and core. 3. Risk of Injury: - Romanian Deadlift: The RDL is generally considered safer because the barbell stays close to the body, reducing the strain on the lower back. - Stiff-Leg Deadlift: The SLDL can put more strain on the lower back, especially if performed with poor form or excessive weight. In summary, while both exercises work similar muscle groups, the Romanian Deadlift is more hip-dominant and the Stiff-Leg Deadlift is more hamstring-dominant. The choice between the two will depend on your fitness goals and the specific muscles you want to target.
Is there a more glute bias knee bend technique, or sticking the butt back? Also, when doing split squats, is leaning forward more glute bias then back straight up and down? Thanks Dr. Mike, love your videos!
Look up deadlift for the glutes rp strenght, it's a training video and he goes in-depth as far as technique is concerned EDIT* If you split squat with a more upright position it's going to be quad dominant. The more you lean forward (keep your chest up) the more the glutes are involved and stretched
@@kyukoshi1937this. Romanian deadlift can be configured to kill. A slight variation in form leads to more gluteal or quad activation. It's honestly the single exercise you need for legs. Not including calves and tibia. Throw in some Nordic hamstring curls or just regular hammy curls and you have all you need for a competent leg day
Everyone seems to define these differently. One thing that seems consistent is that people let their backs go horizontal with the ground in SLDLs, but in RDLs they keep their backs as vertical as possible. RDL seems to be more of a strongman style deadlift, although that seems to be a third variation. Some strongmen do their best to do a squat.
SLDL = hamstring focus (bar kept as close to shins as possible, knees almost locked but not entirely). RDL = glute focus (knees not at all locked so they can bend quite a bit while bar is not kept strictly close to shins). Both movements allow for the weight to touch the floor, but usuallly the floor isn't touched while executing either movement.
So how do you focus glutes in one hinge movement but hamstrings in the other hinge movement? You don't. They're the same thing. The only thing you're doing is bending knees more in one than the other and calling it a different thing.
I simply could not get good ham activation doing SLDL/ RDL/ whatever until I dropped the bar and picked up dumbbells. So there's another variation. For some reason it's easier for me to stick my butt out and keep the bells traveling essentially up and down my shins
Hey Dr. Mike! Would you consider making videos that go in-depth on the updates to the RP Hypertrophy app? (Which I am loving by the way and highly recommend)
When you’re doing sets of 5 of the Romanian deadlift you must start with the bar in the racked position just above the patella and anterior to the body
Crazy how I've just been learning how to do RDL's properly today as I wasn't doing it right and you pop up with this. I was bending my knees way too much and basically not engaging my hamstrings at all. After my corrected session I almost fell over walking to the kitchen! So after my one afternoon of doing it right I can confirm you are correct. So thanks. I train alone and can't afford to go the gym or hire a trainer right now as I spent my budget on weights, bars and a bench so I rely on good advice from RUclips and it's not always easy to find but I like the detail you go into in your videos.
Gotta disagree here Dr. Mike. And I think this is a great topic of discussion. Agree that they are a variation but I think calling them the “same” implies that you can get the same result. Any time you do a SLDL, there’s almost always certainly more lower back fatigue vs the RDLs where you can put more emphasis on the hams over the spinal erectors because of the increased range of motion. Now you might say, why is this an issue? Well, if my goal is to target my hamstrings, and not exhaust my lower back for things later in the week like squats, then the RDL might be preferable. But let’s say this doesn’t matter to me and that I do want to train my lower back. Why not just do a conventional then? If anything, the SLDL is the man out here. RDLs add more specific to the ham muscle. To that end, I think we can agree that it is a variation. Just my opinion. Love your take as always, Mike.
Have to disagree, Mike. They're not both types of SLDL, they're both types of deadlift. In strength circles, there is a definite distinction between how they're categorized, performed, and applied. SLDL resets from the floor between reps. People usually perform this as a strength movement in the 3-6 rep range, and usually have the same stance and grip width as their conventional deadlift. It's a slightly disadvantaged conventional deadlift that removes leg drive. I think you guys at RP are the only people I've ever seen use this as a hypertrophy movement. I see a lot of strength athletes pushing the weight on this and using as a way to practice bracing and hinging from a dead stop. RDL never touches the floor and can be done with more knee bend. Most people think of this as a hypertrophy movement and program it that way, I think it's less common to see this as a strength movement but it's arguably more versatile than SLDL and can be used that way. Also it's easier to vary, like grip width, for example. Wide grip/snatch grip RDLs are a variation of RDL, not SLDL. You'd need a lot of flexibility to be able to do a snatch grip SLDL with any reasonable weight. I think this video is a weird semantic argument and not representative of how these movements are seen by most trainees.
@@enmorot I think it's an echo chamber issue. Because for him to not even mention this distinction, he'd have to be unaware of the ton of people that refers to SLDL as a from-the-floor movement. And that is surely not cool given his position of authority in the field.
@@canererbay8842 That's a good point. And if this is the case I agree that him not knowing would be very problematic. However, to argue against a rather established and, for all purposes, useful and hence valid distinction that he knows about is just as bad. So it's quite bad in either case.
Interesting. For a long time I stopped asking myself of the difference and thought they were pretty much the same exercise. Then I watched a video where Alex Bromley describes the differences and had an illumination moment... now I'm just lost. Seriously, Bromley treats them as different exercises, but agrees they are fairly similar: the main difference is the RDL is focused on hams and the SLDL is more focused on low back but requires way more flexibility (he keeps kness locked, rounds the lumbar back and begins the motion from the floor as the DL). If anyone reads this comment I suggest you check it out, it's a good video to add to this one.
Well we should give it its own name because a good morning is the same exact motion with the bar above your center of mass, if you put the bar in your elbows and do the same exact motion the weight is closer to your center of mass where putting the bar in your hands puts the weight below your center-of-mass but it is the same exact motion.
No, I think if the glutes are not engaged, it can be problematic for you. Most people will increase axial fatigue to an unnecessary degree if the glutes are not active during any dead lift. But, most of their work is isometric or limited to the very first portion of the decent, and the very last portion of the return to the upright position. Most people find it very difficult to completely engage the glutes when fully flexed at the hip like when you are in the bottom of an RDL/SLDL.
My first thought when he said they were the same thing was "This is basically judo throw classification discourse." Which is funny in a way I think only grapplers can appreciate fully.
I agree with you. But when I do SLDL I concentrate on hammies and stretch of them. DRL version I try to use the glutes as the concentric driver. Who knows if that’s crazy or the same thing
loved this video as always, I always thought sldl was from the ground a deadlift with stiff legs and rdl was stopping short so the stretch component where the sldl was more of a stiff legged push who knows
I remember not having any differentiation between the two until Bromely suggested the distinction being Romanians don’t touch the ground between reps while a SLDL does. Appreciated the history lesson on origins quite a lot.
What i heard was you start the RDL at the top, while SLDL starts from the floor so basically a reverse RDL. I feel like everyone just made up their own definitions this shit is like folklore lol
I am a complete novice when it comes to deadlifts and I still can't understand the difference between an RDL vs a regular deadlift besides the range of motion being different. Maybe one day I will get there.
An RDL puts the primary focus on your hamstrings. A standard deadlift puts stress on your entire body. You can lift substantially more with a regular DL than an RDL
I do RDLs with a large knee bend because it works almost entirely on my lower back, not the hamstrings. So for me these are different exercises that work on different muscles.
My RDL turned into and SLDL with a light touch and go as I got more flexible. Touch and go is more ROM, so probably better than not touching. But I do RDLs with a small deficit if the deficit platform is not being used at the gym. If i go slow enough, i feel my lats the next day too. Still never had an RDL/SLDL hit my hams as hard as a single leg deadlift.
SLDL: Every deadlift variation that start/end at the floor and done with *straighter* than regular knees. RDL: Every deadlift variation that start/end at the top and turn-around point at the bottom is subjective. This is literally it and how I've always seen pretty much everyone refer to them. It's probably the historical description that muddies the waters but it doesn't matter anymore in that case. The above distinction is clearly difference enough to make them 2 distinct deadlift variations.
Interesting. I have always distinguished between the two with the only difference being that a SLDL touches the floor, and you pull from a dead stop each time. Whilst with a RDL you don't touch the floor, so you have to reverse direction in mid air. And I didn't know that technically you're not supposed to lock your knees at the top of the rep, or lock your hips. I have always done it with a very slight knee bend, but I've always "completed" the rep each time by locking out both the hips and knees on each rep P.S. the attempt to pronounce that Romanian name was dope, you definitely made it sound cool 😂
I always thought that the difference was that with a SLDL, you let the bar fully come to rest on the ground between reps, but with the RDL you don't let it touch the ground.
@@SOC-ir6im It isn't, romanian deadlifts are just properly executed bodybuilding stiff-legged deadlifts... Touching the floor doesn't necessarily mean resetting the weight and tapping the floor with each rep can encourage a proper stretch of the hamstrings but isn't necessary for full range of motion on a romanian deadlift... Quit listening to intermediate powerlifters with weak inflexible hamstrings about stiff-legged deadlifts and romanian deadlifts... Romanian deadlifts are just the way bodybuilders have been and should be doing stiff-legged deadlifts whereas what powerlifters do for "stiff-legged deadlifts" are just glorified conventional deadlifts with the knees behind the bar... It is a lot of semantics and ego... Dimmel/dorian deadlifts are also not romanian deadlifts or stiff-legged deadlifts and are pointless since incline back raises and/or good mornings are 100 times more effective for both upper and lower back hypertrophy
@@iangraham-white5717 you’re an absolute idiot kid. Get off the internet and go learn from someone that know what they’re talking about because you obviously have zero idea. Go lay down goofy. And tapping the floor for anything is for underdeveloped newbs like yourself 🤡 I’m sure you’re as weak as your opinion too lmao
In my opinion, you never have to ever bother with doing a typical SLDL. Starting from the ground every rep is pretty straining on the back for no reason. The RDL can do both things, the hams and glutes, much better. Just keep your legs straight for more ham focus, and bend your legs until you feel your glutes burn. This bend is different for everyone to feel it the best. Just don't ever drop the weight, and hold the stretch for a bit.
Olympic Weightlifters not locking their RDLs at the top has nothing to do with muscle hypertrophy and everything to do with sports specificity: 1. This is not how weightlifters finish their pulls; Locking the RDL at the top trains a movement pattern that might cause the lifter to push the barbell away from him in the Clean and the Snatch (which is very undesirable). 2. SLDLs are already non-specific to weightlifting, however they have a special place in the toolbox because they can teach the lifter to be patient and keep his shoulders over the bar as long as possible before completing extending. By pushing the hips through ("locking at the top") you are depriving the exercise from its selling aspect that can make one choose it over the much more specific Clean Deadlift and Snatch Deadlift to begin with.
1. Not true. Hip extension will finish in a heavy clean or snatch, ideally. 2. Assistant exercises shouldn't be used to teach fundamentals likes "keep shoulders over the bar". If a lifter struggles with this, they probably can't even deadlift correctly yet and thus shouldn't be worried about cleans and snatches, but about finding a better coach.
I think I have got it. A Zercher Jefferson Curl (with completely stiff legs) off of a dead stop each rep sort of checks off all the boxes of an SLDL and is obviously not an RDL!
And that’s definitely a back exercise, super scary movement but kinda awesome for the same reason. Super deficit sldls can have back rounding like that too, so any sldl ignoring the active Rom for the hamstrings is not an rdl? That could technically mean a stiff legged rack pull could be a non rdl if your hamstrings are super short (splitting hairs I know)
As far as I'm concerned they are barely different, but the only real distinction that I make between SLDLs and RDLs is the goal I am thinking about when I program them for myself; however I think most people think about RDL/SLDL in those terms but just aren't self aware about the fact that it's a useful but made up difference. That sort of hip hinge can be a tool for hypertrophy, or it can be a tool to develop deadlift specific strenth as an accessory for the deadlift. So the language of 'SLDL' or 'RDL' is just shorthand which goal and therefore how I should be executing the movement. RDLs mean starting from the top, controlled eccentrics, keeping the back arched and being strict as fuck with form while trying to fuck my hamstrings up as much as possible and using higher reps like 8-12. SLDLs mean I want to start from the floor with a more neutral back that mimics my normal deadlift, just without much knee bend; I'm focused on moving the weight rather than my hamstrings, with about the same concentric/eccentric tempo and lower rep ranges like 4-6. IDK, in my head when I'm doing SLDLs I'm focused on training my deadlift, when I'm doing RDLs I'm focused on training my hamstrings
They are not the same thing. The Romanian Dead Lift came from Romania. The Stifflegged Dead Lift came from Stiffleg, Sweden.
Ahoy
Thanks for spurting truths, Oaf.
I mean, it’s really obvious.
And skull crushers came from crushed skulls , somewhere on planet earth 💀
Maybe the real Stiff Leg is the friends we made along the way
Dr. Mike, I just want to say that you have made me a much better personal trainer. I have 20 years of experience and taken many different certifications and have learned more form you on this channel than any of these other certs. And all of your content really applies to the general population that just wants to lose fat and build muscle. Keep up the good work. I hope to run into someday and thank you in person.
Exactly same.
Thank you for constantly learning. Your clients are lucky. Countless buff dudes out there thinking they can be PTs because they look good (mainly due to genetics)
Same!!
Ditto. 🙋🏻♂️🇦🇺
Same here! Thank you Dr. Mike and RP
I always considered the main distinction to be that the SLDL is an *actual* deadlift, in the sense that the bar starts on the floor on every rep (the "dead" part"). The RDL is a partial SLDL where you don't lower the bar all the way to the floor to maintain tension (also seems to reduce stress on the lower back and personally I find it much easier on the hip joints).
Depends. I RDL at a deficit so it doesn't touch the ground but I go deeper than a SLDL.
I've heard people refer to RDL as the variant where you start from a rack, so the lift goes eccentric > stretch reflex > concentric (much the way bench or squat go) instead of concentric > lockout > eccentric
This is the way sensible people talk about the RDL, it's top down incorporating a stretch reflex, which is different from an SLDL which is truly a dead lift. idk why Mike chose this hill to die on and quibbling about some shit that happened 30 years ago is wack
Interesting distinction! I buy it.
That was my understanding too I'm surprised he didn't bring that definition up.
I kinda always thought they were the same thing. I have heard from some peeps that a SLDL touches the floor, and an RDL doesn't, but always thought that it really depends on flexibility/mobility and body structure. This video NEEDED to be made! Thanks for clearing things up like always Mike!
TLDR: Squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. RDLs are SLDLs but not all SLDLs are RDLs.
I like it
Yep. This video was an awfully long-winded way of investigating this minor detail. Nothing wrong about it, just nitpicking imo.
I always drew the distinction between the two was that the RDL starts at the top and ends at the top, the SLDL starts at the bottom, ends at the bottom. Also, the RDL would stop once your hips couldn't travel back any further you would initiate the concentric portion. Where as the SLDL, you would go all the way down to the ground no matter how much the torso would go down even though the hips were already as far back as possible.
Once you start repping, where is the difference. You With enough flexibility they become the same thing with this definition.
@@tanthai3653 One remains loaded throughout the entire rep scheme, the other is intentionally unloaded at the bottom(otherwise it is an RDL or some kind of cheated SLDL with your back in a compromised position)
@@wolfy9005if you're unloading the weight on any deadlift you're not maximizing muscular tension.
@@KneeGrowDoingKneeGrowThings then do touch-and-gos, your maximising tension perhaps but not the amount of effort you need to get the weight moving. Muscles, ligaments/etc store energy which is why your tng's are easier after the first rep.
@@wolfy9005 never knew that. But logics well
My view has always been its the same movement, but i say RDL when taken out of the rack at the top, and SLDL when pulled from the floor
Me too
Do you pull each rep from the floor or rack?
@@joeschmo2693 with SLDL I'd start from the floor and touch the floor each time pulling from a deadstop, with RDL I would unrack it at the top and not quite touch the floor each rep
@@highviewbarbell Sounds like slightly different ways of doing SLDLs.
yeah...they are slightly different@@joeschmo2693
Thanks Doctor Mike :D
I’ve been subbed for almost a year and I’ve started to gain a reputation in my circle as “the guy that knows what he’s talking about” and I have you to thank for it !
This might be an interesting anecdote for you.
I‘ve always been a calisthenics guy but I’m 36 now and I’ve just started doing RDLs in the last 9 months to help with my Hamstring Flexibility (low-to-moderate load, slow eccentric pause reps for upwards of 4 sets a session twice a week and I gotta say, when I started, I had to maintain a ‘soft’ knee bend that was almost 45 degrees of knee flexion to accomodate for my lack of flexibility. Right now I’m very close to having almost locked out knees with the same stimulus to the hamstrings unless I intentionally keep them at a soft-bend. It took almost 9 months for them to loosen up and then there’s this unfortunate side effect lately where my hamstrings and ass has gotten bigger and beefier… and as I calisthenics guy I certainly can’t have that ! What will my peers think ! (Shock horror) there must be some truth to this stretch-mediated hypertrophy stuff they’ve been going on about. Can’t be sure though, need to do some kind of uhh… research or something on that.
Thanks again and hope this like and comment gets you one step closer to your next Lamborghini
I thought it goes like this;
SLDL: Deadlifts off the floor with straight / slightly bent legs
RDL: emphasis on hamstring stretch while pushing glutes back as far as possible with straight legs, doesnt usually touch the floor
I literally just started incorporating these to my leg day last week and wasn't totally sure of the difference. Thanks for clearing it up!
I've usually used the distinction that RDLs are as you described: focus on the eccentric, start from the top, more hips back with a bias to hamstrings and some glutes potentially with a slight knee bend. Whereas a SLDL is focussing on the concentric, pulling from the floor with a more open knee angle (ie less knee bend), less of a focus on eccentric and torso is more bent over. But I don't mind the terms being used interchangeably they are essentially the same movements after all.
Yeah I thought SLDL were from the floor and rdls are usually not put down in between reps.
Well the old joke in the gym was that this boy in Romania was not allowed to bang the weights so once he picked it up he would have to do his set continuously without the bar touching the ground, until he was done setting it down gently as to not make noise, basically preventing him from ever going to failure so that later made the distinction that a Romanian deadlift is where you don't set the bar down until you are done versus a stiff-legged where the bar may touch every single repetition. Same motor pattern but different loading on the nervous system
I struggled to understand how they were functionally different when I started. Now I know why. Thank you for clarifying this so succinctly!
This is a fantastic one Dr Mike
Thank you for all the clarification. Also I enjoyed that dee held in beltch after saying the words depth differences. Very appropriate timing.
I have always considered the RDL a top-down movement focussing on the eccentric component, and the SLDL a bottom-up movement focussing on the concentric.
After carefully considering this video, this is how I will continue to define the two in a programming sense for myself and my clients.
Thankyou.
Easy to do that when he literally not mentions the obvious distinction (starting from top vs bottom) *once* despite the quarter-hour lecture with PP and everything.
@@canererbay8842 it annoyed me when he said “oh it’s a spectrum of movement, there’s so many variations like wide grip or deficit” as if those aren’t distinctions already made on a written program.
Why does it matter where you start when the movement is the same in both? You missed the point. @@canererbay8842
@@strongmansam289 Dr. Mike didn't say those things don't matter, he just said they're distinctions. Variations. They're not different movements entirely.
What are you on about?@@strongmansam289
"You know if that guy is in your weight class, you're f u c k I n g losing." Dead.
Real😂
😂😂😂
I adore sldls, they’re the only deadlift variation I can challenge my glutes and hamstrings with without my back rounding cause it just puts them in a more difficult position. I have a super long torso and a weak back (I’m bringing it up) so deadlifts never felt right. I make the arbitrary separation in my training log for clarity cause I do them 3 different ways. An sldl is a dead stop with a full lockout and an rdl is without a lockout or dead also starting from the top position out of a rack. An sldl with a dead stop is more conducive to deadlift training because you have to set your back and brace from the bottom like in the conventional deadlift, it typically means some upper back rounding because you didn’t set your back before tensioning the hamstrings like an rdl starting from the top position, I do both because having variations is typically a good idea. I find dead stop sldls are also great for lower reps if you really wanna blow up your conventional deadlift, 3x3 or 3x5 even doing singles and cluster sets like speed work can be awesome, if your bottom position sucks you won’t be able to move the weight so it’s ultra strict.
Back rounding isnt a problem with DLs as long as it stays rounded the whole lift.
@@TransNeingerian yeah I know but it looks ugly to me so I don’t like it, same reason I squat atg and pull conventional. Also I do have active rounding on heavy sets which is dangerous as you’ve said.
Wait, does this mean the Single-Leg Romanian Deadlift now have to be called the SLSLDL?
(SL)^2DL-enjoyers assemble
Love the Ironmind shoutout. I have some Ironmind lifting straps that are over 15 years old and still going strong.
Seriously the first real exercise you put me on too especially when you think bout mind muscle connection !!!!
In my experience without delving into the historical context. I’ve always thought of the SLDL as a deadlift used to target the hamstrings with less knee flexion than the RDL. Whereas the RDL I would execute with slightly more knee flexion targeting a combination of both the glutes and hamstrings. Interesting to hear the origin of both terms
The way I was taught about it was SLDL start from the floor like a regular deadlift but you limit the knee bend as much as possible.
An RDL is where you start at the top, lower down with a little bit more knee bend allowed and back to the top.
except once you get to the top on the SLDL, and you start lowering, it becomes the same damn exercise.
Dr. Mike is a hero for all of us who struggle with "performance anxiety" 😞
Hey Dr Mike
Glad that YT Algo Recommended Your Videos
I watched several of your YT videos about Glute exercises
As I am Quad Dominant, Here what I gather to create a Focus & Growth Glute Program
Don’t hesitate to correct me
1/I will start with Bulgarian Split Squat on Smith Machine
=>Back leg on a Bench
(I feel more my glute when my back leg is on a bench Vs Front Foot Elevated: don’t know why…)
*3 sets of 10-20 reps per leg
*Moderate weight
*Pause at the bottom
*Rest between each Leg
2/Hip Trust Machine:
3 sets of 10-20 reps
*Light Weight
*2sec Hold Top &squeeze glutes
*30 sec Rest
3/Modify Deadlift : 3*10-15 reps
=> Bend Beginning with relatively straight knees
As go down, let the knees come forward just enough not a big bend
Pause at the bottom
What Do you Think of the program?
I must have missed your video talking about « Kick Back » exercice & « Hip Abductor machine » for the « side/round » booty : is it useful to do it?
Thank in advance for your feedback
I am no doctoe neither my name is Mike but did you said that your training must be quad dominant? What uou do is more glute and hams dominate. Only the bulggarian split squad will put the focus on the guads if your leg is closer to the bench. Maybe I got it wrong but ur training style does not focus on quads but hey whatever works for you.
I always saw SLDL starting and ending on the floor, with straighter (slightly) legs, whereas RDL was starting from the top, not touching the ground with a slightly more bent knee and never really got why you guys always argued that they're the same. I see it now though, I get where you're coming from and can't disagree.
All just part of a spectrum (cue 150 new names within the SLDL category 🙄).
I agree with you. They are different movements, kind of like how a pause bench and touch and go are different movements.
SLDL being from a dead stop makes the bracing more important, and I see SLDL as a more specific movement for strength in the conventional DL whereas RDL are more capable of being taken into hypertrophy rep ranges.
I don't think you can argue that an RDL is a type of SLDL, it's not. They're both types of deadlift, but RDLs can be done with more knee bend and with a dynamic knee, depending on whether you're biasing the hips or hamstrings.
Couldnt have said it better myself. Many coaches also regard the 2 movements as separate movement. I personally prefer the RDL
Everyone here is saying the same thing, I think Dr. Mike is the only person I've heard say otherwise
Mike is great but he definitely has to concede this one. Ultimately names only.mean as much as they are used to describe, so when people ask sldl vs rdl we all know what they're asking so why get caught up in etymology?
Oly lifters don't need to lockout at the 'top' or hip. Hip is where the launching of the barbell really starts, and it's commonly called 'second pull'. For oly lifters, not locking out at the hip(top) is a pretty natural thing to do, because they have to launch from the hip. Also, as Dr. Israetel pointed out, locking out doesn't offer any significant stimulus. Thanks for the clear explanation. It can't be more clear than this.
Next week: the difference between reverse grip curls and Zottman curls.
Oh. Stiff leg always meant something else to me. Dr Mike always teaching me new things 😊
I am Romanian and my ❤ melted when you said "Romanians are sweet" 😊. Cheers, dr. Mike
To me, RDLs are more knee bend and a combination of hammies & glutes, while SDLs are less bend in the knees and more hammies 😊. I like both variations 🥰
So Romanians are stealing exercises too now?
Great stuff. Thanks Dr Mike.
The technique variations clear a lot of my concern up around all the interpretations / strict & single-option instructions from a lot of people of there
You will 100% lose if anyone in your weight class is named Dragomir for literally anything
Personally completely agree. That rounded back, etc example you gave sounded a lot like a Jefferson Curl which a lot of people like to use and is also a variation of an SLDL. Sounds like the RDL is arguably the best variation for muscle growth, which is the goal of the channel.
I have posted the same thing without the detail saying RDL is a synonym for sldl that works the hamstrings more effectively than variations that stimulate your spinal erectors more heavily through flexion and extension vs. hip hinging movement with the erectors and abs bracing and stabilizing the spine while in extension during the entire set providing a more effective stretch on the hamstrings. I figured I was wrong after reading articles on channels with great information. When you provided the historical perspective it put things in perspective . A high bar squat and a low bar squat are simply ways of more clearly describing a general squat. Bar on back, descend to slightly below parallel or more and stand back up. Whether you lean or stay more upright is a function of both the bar position but moreso the length of your torso relative to your femur
I define them more by where I start the movement.
For me, I start from a rack for an RDL, focused on the eccentric. I'm horrendously inflexible so mostly i can get a burn just below my knees.
SLDL I don't really train my definition, which is from the floor.
I also use the term RDL as it is easier to say and most people I talk to about training understand what I mean.
I'm just an overweight hack who likes to lift weights, no PHD.
i would like to shout out to Dr Mike and the rest of the RP team! Great content, I've recently incorporated a lot of training principles and exercise variations and have a renewed vigour to train. Some decent gains and strength progress from lots of your videos.
Keep up the good work and all the best with your Lambo collection!
I always thought SLDL was with a dead stop on the floor and RDL was hovering just above the ground. I learned the just below the knee as the Dimel DL variation.
First of all - the shirt - I love it!
And of course also thanks for the video. As usual good fun to watch, very informative and after doing rdls just yesterday I think the Internet is stalking me 🤣
In Olympic style weightlifting we like the bar close and shoulders in front of the bar, and definitely helps load the back like the lats which is super important to keeping positioning for snatch and clean. So not just massive hamstring hammering. That positioning might not translate in powerlifting or body building
Just thought I'd add that perspective so people know why they do it like that and can choose if its important.
And in weightlifting there’s also the snatch grip variation, which I find by far the most intense variant
Thank you, I've been thinking this since I started doing deadlifts.
If you start at the top and control the stretch its an RDL if you start at the bottom and the main focus is the concentric its an sldl. You can't change my mind
Lots of people with low IQs think like this. Look at all the people who think Trump won.
JFYI: Nicolae "Nicu" Vlad (born 1 November 1963) is a retired heavyweight weightlifter from Romania. He competed for Romania at the 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996 Olympics and won a gold, a silver and a bronze medal. He won the world title in 1984, 1986 and 1990 and European title in 1985 and 1986 and set world records in the snatch in 1986 and 1993.
It's like Dr Mike is inside my head. The shit he describes always makes perfect sense and answers those questions I have when I'm training.
Was so ready to argue this, but damn you changed my mind instead. Great argument and video 💪
Dr Mike - no Lambo for you - just RUclips count $$. Three takeaways for me. Warm up with what you plan to lift. Do BASIC movements and build up. Explode Concentric Slow/expand Eccentric. And most of the details are not applicable if you don’t get your diet right. Loved crushing 475# bench with 50# dumbbell. Anything on reconnecting fast twitch - other than start moving a little faster and build up?
I KNEW IT. Also, with all the content I watched, nobody seemed to care about the etymology of the term "Romanian Deadlift". That's a real scholar right here.
When I was coaching Olympic lifts, we shied away from using traditional SLDL so that our clients wouldn’t lock out in the power position or second pull of the clean. SLDL are great for a hamstring strengthening/hypertrophy stimulus but it did confuse the muscle memory of some of our clients.
I know many powerlifters use the two terms to refer to differently performed exercises, not always for the purpose of just hamstring growth. For example, Dan Green uses the term "romanian deadlift" to refer to a stiff legged deadlift where you arch your entire back and never touch the ground, while he uses "stiff legged deadlifts" to refer to a stiff legged deadlift that does reset on the ground after each rep, and you allow your upper back to round more than in his "RDL".
At the end of the day, what you're doing matters more than what you call it, and if it makes it easier to call something a certain term to memorize or track it or whatever, then I don't see the issue. It is easier to say "romanian deadlift" than "flat back non-ground touching stiff legged deadlift", or "stiff legged deadlift" than "thoracic rounding but lumbar flat stiff legged deadlift touching the ground each rep".
Nice comment.
"You know if that guys in your weight class you are fucking losing" Worth the entire video. Classic Dr. Mike
the: circle in a slightly larger circle metaphor is perfect to sum up the video
Ha! I trained at The Sports Palace in San Francisco and worked for Jim there. Some great lifters came through there. I remember that training day. I miss that place.
SLDL starts from and ends at the floor (or below, if deficit version) each rep whether in touch and go or dead stop style plus all other nuances that Dr. Mike mentioned.
RDL is an SLDL that follows the opposite, and starts and finishes at the top position with all other nuances of SLDL applicable.
This is what I could understand in simple words.
Crazy how life works....I was literally looking for a video like comparing these exercises on the RP channel this morning and couldn't find it....few hours later, it's uploaded 😂
We need a video like this for seated leg curl vs lying leg curl
I like the Stiff leg for strength training because I have to brace harder.
Perhaps a distinction without a practical difference. With the RDL, I considered it to be used more as a Olympic lifting accessory and trains the 2nd pull movement (less ROM)
💯
Great video! I took my USAW level 1 cert class several years ago with Jim and he definitely tells this story exactly like that 😂
My understanding has always been that they're basically the same lift, expect the first rep of RDLs is pulled from the front of a rack, and the first rep of SLDLs are pulled from the floor. Though, I have in fact at times, had to pull the first rep of my RDL's from the floor when the racks were taken. So yeah, it's a bit of a distinction with out MUCH of a difference, though their is a slight difference.
I use RDLs with a hefty knee bend just below the knee to give my lower back TUT work. But I SDL with nearly straight legs to the floor to focus my hinging and blow up my hamstrings
In the general strength/ performance world they really are two different things, and I don't know how you missed this.
A stiff legged deadlift is pulled from the ground, from a dead stop. It is basically a deadlift with the the quads taken out. The pull from the dead stop is more specific to the start of the deadlift.
The systemic fatigue generated is slightly less than the deadlift because of the reduced load, but it hits the hamstrings harder, and usually hits the erectors better as well because the back is more horizontal. You are basically kicking out the leg muscles that cannot be developed by the deadlift (the quads) and hammering the ones that can (glutes, and hams). It can even be done as a substitute to the deadlift in base building phases, or a squat only block. If you get stronger without the quads then you should be stronger with them.
The RDL allows you to use a stretch reflex, and thus you are training your ability to arrest momentum as opposed to breaking a weight from a dead stop. There is a different type of coordination involved than with the SLDL. It won't fatigue you as much as the stiffed legged deadlift because if you do it correctly it comes with a very reduced load. You can do it more frequently, and because you are under more constant load it let's you really practice staying tight.
You can correctly say that the two work all of the same muscles, and in hypertrophy world that is all great, and a valid semantical argument. However in the strength and performance world there are two very different things happening, with very different programming implications, and very different criteria for choosing one over the other.
I don't think your assumption about RDL applies to everyone or that the load should be or is less than the SLDL. For people with great mobility, there is not much stretch reflex if they don't go "below the floor" and regarding the load, you can go and maybe should go really heavy on RDLs in some cases and it will be very taxing, maybe even more than the SLDL.
@@SamHamHam No I'm not wrong. In the SLDL you are able to be more neutral, or round your back a little more to get it to the bar. You may also have more knee bend. In an RDL that would be considered a cheat if we are going by it's normative use. That will allow more weight used on the SLDL. Even if you did modify an RDL to where you could use the same weight as the SLDL, the SLDL would still fatigue you more because you are pulling it from a dead stop. This isn't even controversial, it's well known that pulling from a dead stop is not just different, it's harder, and fatigues you more.
Look you can probably make dozens of different use cases that would help Mike's argument look better on paper. However, that isn't going to change the fact that the normative uses of these lifts in the strength world, are very different. The idea that they are the same can only exist in super niched hypertrophy world.
@@leinekenugelvondoofenfocke1002 I am not sure what definition you are using for SLDL. All trainers that I have heard making the distinction between SLDL and RDL, say that in SLDL you must have the legs as stiff or straight as possible. Additionally a lot of athletes exploit the stretch reflex in the SLDL while repping the weight (they basically do bounce reps), a lot more than they do on RDL since they pause the reps while going down in RDL. Yes, loading is more difficult in what people know as RDL, but that is because they are weak in that movement and more disadvantaged due to leverages. Also, is getting potentially more fatigue a plus? Don't you want the best SFR?
@@SamHamHam These dudes you are hearing this from are from hypertrophy world. Yeah, you can bounce SLDLs, and probably get some good development, but you are doing something different than what we are referring too as SLDLs. You are not getting the practice pulling from a dead stop, and you are not getting the practice of arresting momentum. So at that point you are just doing hypertrophy work. That's not a bad thing, but it's a different thing than what we would be doing if performance was a factor.
As far as RDLs go, as heavy as you can go, you should still be able to go heavier on an SLDL because it's just a stronger position. The RDL has the hamstrings as the limiting factor on purpose, and that limits load on purpose.
On to your question on SFR. If you swap regular deadlifts out for SLDLs you have a better SFR, but you have higher specificity to the deadlift, and don't lose technical momentum. Because you still have to pull the slack out, and you still have to build tension to pull from a dead stop.
You might consider doing this in a developmental phase, or a squat only block. The quads are not going to grow from the deadlift, it's a partial to them. So you are either Saving them for the squat, or removing them to distribute the stress to muscles that will actually grow for a while. Say you committed to adding 20 pounds to your SLDL, before switching back to regular deads. When you stop adapting well to the SLDL you can switch back to the deads, and you will then be stronger to benefit more from the deads.
The RDL is something you would use as a light pull, while training deadlifts concurrently. It hits the hamstrings, and teaches good bracing. Those are two critical points in deadlifting. The lower fatigue allows this, the two lifts don't interfere with each other to the same extent as the SLDL would interfere with the deadlift.
You would choose one over the other based on what else you have going on. If you were competing you would also take meet prep into consideration.
Programming considerations for performance are going to be different, and that's where these movements are different.
I've been out of the loop for a long time, but I had no idea some people think SLDL and RDL are not the same thing.
This was a HUGE help to me!!! Have been thinking about this arching alot lately. I have been in this mindset where all arching is bad but it's not. Thank you. ✨👍
This sounds like a semantics argument to me. An RDL is a glute exercise in which you focus more on extending the hip and driving through with your glutes, whilst an SLDL is a hamstring exercise in which you focus more on getting a stretch on the hamstrings and using them, along with the lower back, to drive through.
This is what CHAT GPT said 😂😂
The Romanian Deadlift and the Stiff-Leg Deadlift are both effective exercises for strengthening the posterior chain, but they have some key differences in terms of technique and muscle focus.
1. Technique:
- Romanian Deadlift (RDL): In the RDL, the knees are slightly bent and remain in this fixed position throughout the movement. The hips are pushed back as the torso hinges forward, keeping the barbell close to the body. The movement stops when the barbell reaches mid-shin level or when you feel a stretch in your hamstrings.
- Stiff-Leg Deadlift (SLDL): In the SLDL, the legs are kept straight or almost straight, increasing the stretch and tension on the hamstrings. The barbell is also lowered closer to the toes, rather than mid-shin.
2. Muscle Focus:
- Romanian Deadlift: The RDL primarily targets the glutes and hamstrings, but also works the lower back and core.
- Stiff-Leg Deadlift: The SLDL places more emphasis on the hamstrings, but also works the glutes, lower back, and core.
3. Risk of Injury:
- Romanian Deadlift: The RDL is generally considered safer because the barbell stays close to the body, reducing the strain on the lower back.
- Stiff-Leg Deadlift: The SLDL can put more strain on the lower back, especially if performed with poor form or excessive weight.
In summary, while both exercises work similar muscle groups, the Romanian Deadlift is more hip-dominant and the Stiff-Leg Deadlift is more hamstring-dominant. The choice between the two will depend on your fitness goals and the specific muscles you want to target.
Is there a more glute bias knee bend technique, or sticking the butt back? Also, when doing split squats, is leaning forward more glute bias then back straight up and down? Thanks Dr. Mike, love your videos!
Look up deadlift for the glutes rp strenght, it's a training video and he goes in-depth as far as technique is concerned
EDIT*
If you split squat with a more upright position it's going to be quad dominant. The more you lean forward (keep your chest up) the more the glutes are involved and stretched
@@kyukoshi1937this. Romanian deadlift can be configured to kill.
A slight variation in form leads to more gluteal or quad activation. It's honestly the single exercise you need for legs.
Not including calves and tibia. Throw in some Nordic hamstring curls or just regular hammy curls and you have all you need for a competent leg day
Everyone seems to define these differently. One thing that seems consistent is that people let their backs go horizontal with the ground in SLDLs, but in RDLs they keep their backs as vertical as possible. RDL seems to be more of a strongman style deadlift, although that seems to be a third variation. Some strongmen do their best to do a squat.
SLDL = hamstring focus (bar kept as close to shins as possible, knees almost locked but not entirely). RDL = glute focus (knees not at all locked so they can bend quite a bit while bar is not kept strictly close to shins). Both movements allow for the weight to touch the floor, but usuallly the floor isn't touched while executing either movement.
So how do you focus glutes in one hinge movement but hamstrings in the other hinge movement?
You don't. They're the same thing. The only thing you're doing is bending knees more in one than the other and calling it a different thing.
Dr Mike = the goat
I simply could not get good ham activation doing SLDL/ RDL/ whatever until I dropped the bar and picked up dumbbells. So there's another variation. For some reason it's easier for me to stick my butt out and keep the bells traveling essentially up and down my shins
I get a lot more out of them with dumbells too.
Hey Dr. Mike! Would you consider making videos that go in-depth on the updates to the RP Hypertrophy app? (Which I am loving by the way and highly recommend)
When you’re doing sets of 5 of the Romanian deadlift you must start with the bar in the racked position just above the patella and anterior to the body
Crazy how I've just been learning how to do RDL's properly today as I wasn't doing it right and you pop up with this. I was bending my knees way too much and basically not engaging my hamstrings at all. After my corrected session I almost fell over walking to the kitchen! So after my one afternoon of doing it right I can confirm you are correct. So thanks.
I train alone and can't afford to go the gym or hire a trainer right now as I spent my budget on weights, bars and a bench so I rely on good advice from RUclips and it's not always easy to find but I like the detail you go into in your videos.
This is exactly what I have always felt about rdl and sldl
Gotta disagree here Dr. Mike. And I think this is a great topic of discussion.
Agree that they are a variation but I think calling them the “same” implies that you can get the same result. Any time you do a SLDL, there’s almost always certainly more lower back fatigue vs the RDLs where you can put more emphasis on the hams over the spinal erectors because of the increased range of motion.
Now you might say, why is this an issue? Well, if my goal is to target my hamstrings, and not exhaust my lower back for things later in the week like squats, then the RDL might be preferable. But let’s say this doesn’t matter to me and that I do want to train my lower back. Why not just do a conventional then? If anything, the SLDL is the man out here. RDLs add more specific to the ham muscle. To that end, I think we can agree that it is a variation.
Just my opinion. Love your take as always, Mike.
Have to disagree, Mike. They're not both types of SLDL, they're both types of deadlift. In strength circles, there is a definite distinction between how they're categorized, performed, and applied.
SLDL resets from the floor between reps. People usually perform this as a strength movement in the 3-6 rep range, and usually have the same stance and grip width as their conventional deadlift. It's a slightly disadvantaged conventional deadlift that removes leg drive. I think you guys at RP are the only people I've ever seen use this as a hypertrophy movement. I see a lot of strength athletes pushing the weight on this and using as a way to practice bracing and hinging from a dead stop.
RDL never touches the floor and can be done with more knee bend. Most people think of this as a hypertrophy movement and program it that way, I think it's less common to see this as a strength movement but it's arguably more versatile than SLDL and can be used that way. Also it's easier to vary, like grip width, for example. Wide grip/snatch grip RDLs are a variation of RDL, not SLDL. You'd need a lot of flexibility to be able to do a snatch grip SLDL with any reasonable weight.
I think this video is a weird semantic argument and not representative of how these movements are seen by most trainees.
Shut up, you're not an exercise scientist.
I agree with this view. It seems to me as if Mike is trying to create a problem where there doesn't have to be one.
@@enmorot I think it's an echo chamber issue. Because for him to not even mention this distinction, he'd have to be unaware of the ton of people that refers to SLDL as a from-the-floor movement. And that is surely not cool given his position of authority in the field.
@@canererbay8842 That's a good point. And if this is the case I agree that him not knowing would be very problematic. However, to argue against a rather established and, for all purposes, useful and hence valid distinction that he knows about is just as bad. So it's quite bad in either case.
Interesting. For a long time I stopped asking myself of the difference and thought they were pretty much the same exercise. Then I watched a video where Alex Bromley describes the differences and had an illumination moment... now I'm just lost.
Seriously, Bromley treats them as different exercises, but agrees they are fairly similar: the main difference is the RDL is focused on hams and the SLDL is more focused on low back but requires way more flexibility (he keeps kness locked, rounds the lumbar back and begins the motion from the floor as the DL). If anyone reads this comment I suggest you check it out, it's a good video to add to this one.
Well we should give it its own name because a good morning is the same exact motion with the bar above your center of mass, if you put the bar in your elbows and do the same exact motion the weight is closer to your center of mass where putting the bar in your hands puts the weight below your center-of-mass but it is the same exact motion.
Is it wrong to say that the glutes will still be engaged when you prioritize the stretch in the hamstrings?
No, I think if the glutes are not engaged, it can be problematic for you. Most people will increase axial fatigue to an unnecessary degree if the glutes are not active during any dead lift. But, most of their work is isometric or limited to the very first portion of the decent, and the very last portion of the return to the upright position. Most people find it very difficult to completely engage the glutes when fully flexed at the hip like when you are in the bottom of an RDL/SLDL.
My first thought when he said they were the same thing was "This is basically judo throw classification discourse." Which is funny in a way I think only grapplers can appreciate fully.
Mike please do a video on Zercher DLs!!! and all the other Zerchers lifts plz :)
Dr Mike realized it's August and started bringing the heat
As a rock climber, I use SLDLs cause RDLs require that you hold the bar suspended the entire time. Not trying to accrue extra forearm fatigue.
Use straps
the whole point is that that tiny distinction is not what differentiates the two.
Great video. I've watched more RDL and SLDL videos than I care to admit, and I always come away saying, "What's the f***ing difference?!!"
I agree with you. But when I do SLDL I concentrate on hammies and stretch of them. DRL version I try to use the glutes as the concentric driver. Who knows if that’s crazy or the same thing
loved this video as always, I always thought sldl was from the ground a deadlift with stiff legs and rdl was stopping short so the stretch component where the sldl was more of a stiff legged push who knows
I remember not having any differentiation between the two until Bromely suggested the distinction being Romanians don’t touch the ground between reps while a SLDL does. Appreciated the history lesson on origins quite a lot.
What i heard was you start the RDL at the top, while SLDL starts from the floor so basically a reverse RDL. I feel like everyone just made up their own definitions this shit is like folklore lol
I am a complete novice when it comes to deadlifts and I still can't understand the difference between an RDL vs a regular deadlift besides the range of motion being different.
Maybe one day I will get there.
An RDL puts the primary focus on your hamstrings. A standard deadlift puts stress on your entire body.
You can lift substantially more with a regular DL than an RDL
A conventional deadlift also starts by squatting the bar up to shin level then hinging.
A Romanian/Stiff leg deadlift focuses solely on the hinge.
I do RDLs with a large knee bend because it works almost entirely on my lower back, not the hamstrings. So for me these are different exercises that work on different muscles.
Your pronunciation is spot on, and it comes from Serbian guy. Name Dragomir (Drag - nice, Mir - peace) can find among Serbian folk as well
My RDL turned into and SLDL with a light touch and go as I got more flexible. Touch and go is more ROM, so probably better than not touching. But I do RDLs with a small deficit if the deficit platform is not being used at the gym. If i go slow enough, i feel my lats the next day too. Still never had an RDL/SLDL hit my hams as hard as a single leg deadlift.
SLDL: Every deadlift variation that start/end at the floor and done with *straighter* than regular knees.
RDL: Every deadlift variation that start/end at the top and turn-around point at the bottom is subjective.
This is literally it and how I've always seen pretty much everyone refer to them. It's probably the historical description that muddies the waters but it doesn't matter anymore in that case. The above distinction is clearly difference enough to make them 2 distinct deadlift variations.
Great video as always!
And does your shirt say "bloodtype: caffeine"? Because if so I need to know the brand so I can get one.
Interesting. I have always distinguished between the two with the only difference being that a SLDL touches the floor, and you pull from a dead stop each time. Whilst with a RDL you don't touch the floor, so you have to reverse direction in mid air. And I didn't know that technically you're not supposed to lock your knees at the top of the rep, or lock your hips. I have always done it with a very slight knee bend, but I've always "completed" the rep each time by locking out both the hips and knees on each rep
P.S. the attempt to pronounce that Romanian name was dope, you definitely made it sound cool 😂
I always thought that the difference was that with a SLDL, you let the bar fully come to rest on the ground between reps, but with the RDL you don't let it touch the ground.
It is.
Yeah that's what I thought as well
@@SOC-ir6im It isn't, romanian deadlifts are just properly executed bodybuilding stiff-legged deadlifts... Touching the floor doesn't necessarily mean resetting the weight and tapping the floor with each rep can encourage a proper stretch of the hamstrings but isn't necessary for full range of motion on a romanian deadlift... Quit listening to intermediate powerlifters with weak inflexible hamstrings about stiff-legged deadlifts and romanian deadlifts... Romanian deadlifts are just the way bodybuilders have been and should be doing stiff-legged deadlifts whereas what powerlifters do for "stiff-legged deadlifts" are just glorified conventional deadlifts with the knees behind the bar... It is a lot of semantics and ego... Dimmel/dorian deadlifts are also not romanian deadlifts or stiff-legged deadlifts and are pointless since incline back raises and/or good mornings are 100 times more effective for both upper and lower back hypertrophy
@@iangraham-white5717 you’re an absolute idiot kid. Get off the internet and go learn from someone that know what they’re talking about because you obviously have zero idea. Go lay down goofy. And tapping the floor for anything is for underdeveloped newbs like yourself 🤡 I’m sure you’re as weak as your opinion too lmao
In my opinion, you never have to ever bother with doing a typical SLDL. Starting from the ground every rep is pretty straining on the back for no reason. The RDL can do both things, the hams and glutes, much better. Just keep your legs straight for more ham focus, and bend your legs until you feel your glutes burn. This bend is different for everyone to feel it the best. Just don't ever drop the weight, and hold the stretch for a bit.
Olympic Weightlifters not locking their RDLs at the top has nothing to do with muscle hypertrophy and everything to do with sports specificity:
1. This is not how weightlifters finish their pulls; Locking the RDL at the top trains a movement pattern that might cause the lifter to push the barbell away from him in the Clean and the Snatch (which is very undesirable).
2. SLDLs are already non-specific to weightlifting, however they have a special place in the toolbox because they can teach the lifter to be patient and keep his shoulders over the bar as long as possible before completing extending. By pushing the hips through ("locking at the top") you are depriving the exercise from its selling aspect that can make one choose it over the much more specific Clean Deadlift and Snatch Deadlift to begin with.
1. Not true. Hip extension will finish in a heavy clean or snatch, ideally.
2. Assistant exercises shouldn't be used to teach fundamentals likes "keep shoulders over the bar". If a lifter struggles with this, they probably can't even deadlift correctly yet and thus shouldn't be worried about cleans and snatches, but about finding a better coach.
I think I have got it. A Zercher Jefferson Curl (with completely stiff legs) off of a dead stop each rep sort of checks off all the boxes of an SLDL and is obviously not an RDL!
And that’s definitely a back exercise, super scary movement but kinda awesome for the same reason. Super deficit sldls can have back rounding like that too, so any sldl ignoring the active Rom for the hamstrings is not an rdl? That could technically mean a stiff legged rack pull could be a non rdl if your hamstrings are super short (splitting hairs I know)
As far as I'm concerned they are barely different, but the only real distinction that I make between SLDLs and RDLs is the goal I am thinking about when I program them for myself; however I think most people think about RDL/SLDL in those terms but just aren't self aware about the fact that it's a useful but made up difference. That sort of hip hinge can be a tool for hypertrophy, or it can be a tool to develop deadlift specific strenth as an accessory for the deadlift. So the language of 'SLDL' or 'RDL' is just shorthand which goal and therefore how I should be executing the movement. RDLs mean starting from the top, controlled eccentrics, keeping the back arched and being strict as fuck with form while trying to fuck my hamstrings up as much as possible and using higher reps like 8-12. SLDLs mean I want to start from the floor with a more neutral back that mimics my normal deadlift, just without much knee bend; I'm focused on moving the weight rather than my hamstrings, with about the same concentric/eccentric tempo and lower rep ranges like 4-6.
IDK, in my head when I'm doing SLDLs I'm focused on training my deadlift, when I'm doing RDLs I'm focused on training my hamstrings
It's always refreshing when someone doesn't try to make an exercise more than it is. Especially just for ego points.
Cool since I'll be starting a cycle of RDLs next week. I actually prop up my toes with weight plates under them
to get an increased ham stretch.
Are you supposed to lock out glutes when doing RDLs? I’ve seen conflicting opinions on this.
Dr Mike, love the channel! My son is 13...when should I have him start working out....is there any negatives of him starting now?