I always liked Angron because he was one of the few Primarchs who understood the Emperor was a tyrant, and he even had a sense of nobility under all that rage and pain, but the tragedy is he was too broken to be anything other than a monster. I guess his horrific treatment of his legion makes sense if he considers them as some tyrant’s army rather than his own sons.
Huh, d'you know the name of that AU heresy..? (It sounds a little like " _what if Angrin were the Primarch of the Soul Drinkers_ "… which isn't a bad thing :)
Yeah but he ends up willingly serving khorne he couldn't care less about his state of being. If the emperor really was a tyrant than he wouldn't have bothered saving angron he would've put a bolt round in his head and called it a day.
@@apacalypsagon3758 I don’t see how the Emperor not killing Angron is a counterpoint to his tyranny. Angron was a useful butcher, that’s a good, and callous, reason to keep him alive. Also, pretty sure the Emperor is a tyrant, even some of the Loyalist Primarchs seem to think so.
His fate is very cruel indeed, and this too is the Emperor's fault, to a certain degree. It's probable that Angron's original design was to be used as a battering ram to propel the Crusade forward before being discarded and culled, just as was done with the Thunder Warriors on Terra when they were no longer of use.
@@dekai7992 I've heard that his original plan was to be an empath (like a healer class in a video game) but the butchers nails kinda put the kabosh to that idea.
@@barklordofthesith2997 Sounds plausible, too. And very cruel in a typical 40k way. That would make you wonder why the Emperor didn't remove the nails, as it's hinted at the fact that he had the power to do so. Maybe he's just always been a bad dad.
@@Ray-yv7kn Yes and no. It is implied that the Emperor had the ability to remove them, but chose not to, presumably because Angry Angron was a more useful tool at the time than a healer.
I remember the nails were ultimately going to kill him but Angron was ok with that. So becoming an immortal Deamon Prince is a terrible fate because he is still in pain. Damn Lorgar.
I remember reading somewhere any normal human eventually would be killed because they gradually burrow deeper into the brain like porcupine quills. But being a primarch, his healing is strong enough that while he can't push them out, he can at least keep them at bay.
I will (ironically) die on the hill that Angron could have stayed loyal. All the Emperor had to do was teleport down to Nuceria with a handful of marines, and fight off the slavers alongside Angron. It would show Angron that the Emperor isn’t afraid to do the fighting himself (which was demonstrated throughout the Crusade), and that he understands how important the Primarch’s heritage is to Him (which, with how Emps treated Sanguinius’ homeworld, is something that Emps is capable of recognizing). A workaround for the Nails is another issue entirely, but it would start their relationship on a better footing. But no, Emps Way or no way, because He said so.
Yep, Neoth's decision was a great example of how he'd all but lost his humanity following the creation of the primarchs and whatever shit he had to do on Moloch.
I like to imagine that the Emperor being a gestalt being has different personas "in the driving seat" at different times, which explains why he behaves in such a wildly inconsistent manner.
The emperor was a being born of the ritual suicide of thousands of psykers (and currently he’s basically a god in the Warhammer sense of the word) “humanity” has always been a vague concept for him and also “humanity” has several bad traits
I don't believe that Lorgar was trying to save Angron - I think he was trying to get a Primarch for each of his gods. After he'd ticked Khorne off the list he ignored Angron, gave him no assistance or insight into what he'd done to him and basically left him to rot. This is my own interpretation, nothing to do with the quality of your video which was excellent! Thank you.
I honestly don't think Lorgar would have understood the difference, at least in how ADB characterizes him. And since no one was gonna give Angron the rehab, therapy, medication and retirement he needed, I think ascension to daemonhood may actually have been about the best life he was ever going to get, kind of in an addiction-isn't-a-problem-if-it-doesn't-have-negative-consequences-kinda way.
They would also use chains to chain their weapons to their arms so they never dropped them in battle, this is a trait that was adapted and still used by the Black Templars chapter because their original leader Sigismund was friends with Kharn and would duel in their gladiatorial pits on occasion.
It's always interesting seeing the ways even Loyalists continued to be influenced by practices developed by the Traitor legions. The World Eaters as mentioned above. The Librarian structure pioneered partially by Magnus. Lorgar basically writing the book on Emperor worship that became the religion of the Imperium. Etc, etc.
I've been wanting to start collecting a Loyalist army for the Horus Heresy to compliment my love of all the baddies of the setting, and honestly this video is very much tempting me to begin an army of Loyalist War Hounds. The fall of the World Eaters as they desperately try and understand their broken primarch and connect with him in the only language he understands, the constant ring of the Butcher's Nails in their heads, is truly crushing to see.
I've always wanted an army of loyalist war hounds too! Love the idea and also their colour scheme. And now I have to go and spend more money on more space marines 🤣
This is sort of my plan. Maybe someday. Loyalist warhounds, maybe lead by one of the last librarians, trying to stop the spread of what they have become before they too descend into madness.
Having only just started the Heresy novels, I didn't realize Angron was such a tragic figure. Wow. And I didn't realize how true the memes were about how bad a dad the Emperor was, and how many seemingly short-sighted decisions he made leading to such catastrophic consequences. Really loving this series Ian, as always!
Betrayer by ADB is the book that covers Angron and Kharn during the rampage through Ultramar. It's one of the best books I've read, Horus Heresy or otherwise. You're in for a treat when you get to it.
Many said that the Emperor just hated him because basically every Primarch was the ruler of their world when the emperor arrived. Angron however was not the ruler of his world and was on the verge of death when he showed up. The emperor could have avoided all of this if instead of transporting Angron up, he instead fought alongside him and brought some marines to defeat their enemies which would have made Angron insanely loyal.
i just finished reading the betrayer Horus heresy novel and i think it does the best job of explaining Angron’s character and the tragedy that is the XIIth legion. For some reason the emperor teleported Angron away from his gladiator slave brothers and sisters before what should’ve been Angron’s greatest and final battle against those who enslaved him and his comrades. instead of the emps just coming down and helping with Angron’s legion and saving and healing his planet like he had done with the Lion or provided an opportunity for bonding like he did with Vulcan. From then on Angron would obviously resent his father for his actions meanwhile his sons who admire and honor him want to connect more with him and almost all the legion go through with the installation of the butchers nails in their brains. sacrificing their minds to literal constant pain when not in combat just to understand their distant and pained primarch bit more truly grimdark
Angron’s an odd duck who missed a bit of his potential as a character. The idea that he was supposed to be a healer is extremely interesting, it wasn’t used nearly as much as it should’ve been. It also didn’t match with the idea of the world eaters already being butchers before he arrived. I would’ve loved it if it was lent into more, and the world eaters had of started off as medics, healers and defenders of the weak before being turned into bloody butchers. That said, Kharn is stupidly cool, as is that lady flying their ship.
Angron was not a 'healer', that's a huge leap in what his powers are actually described as being in "Slave of Nuceria" and perpetuated by people who don't actually read the series very well or care about its nuance, like Majorkill. He could simply absorb other people's pain, particularly the pain of his comrades-- a trait that goes well with a primarch who seemed to have been designed to have been the embodiment of martial brotherhood, which seems to be what the Emperor had originally intended him to be.
@@nadanone8905 hmmm, I’m not sure I’d call that a huge leap, it seems an equal stretch to say that power is really a specific expression of “martial brotherhood”. Regardless, that’s a lot more boring than than what people “like majorkill” interpret, as a legion of medics and healers would be interesting whereas most legions were already expressing martial brotherhoodyness.
@@Thetallestgirrafe Majorkill can make amusing content, but he is a TERRIBLE source of information on 40k lore and should only be taken as a comedy act, like TTS or 1d4chan, and the idea that War Hounds was a bunch of healers is a line I've only ever heard him promote. And you don't have to worry about it being 'boring', because they stopped being the legion of brotherhoodness when Angron took over.
For being a very blood thirsty legion you do have to admire how well they manage their supplies especially the fact that all their battles are basically battles of attrition
Something that has always bothered me. Not so much for the HH, but the idea that in 40k there are ANY World Eaters left alive when there tactic is to run directly at the enemy is a little insane.
@@LemanRussVanquisherOh bud, like the Alpha Legion there's staggeringly few true Veterans of the Long War left. Berzerker-Surgeons use sorcerous rituals and hereteknica to mass produce new warriors in a months time in birthing vats. It's wasteful, more so than Warsmith Honsou's Daemonculaba, but they can pop out new marines brainwashed with millennia of memories of combat experience stolen from dead World Eaters veterans to accommodate the constant slaughter. These new recruits are also completely insane but they're essentially born as Khorne Berzerkers so ymmv
Angron is probably my favorite primarch just because how tragic his life was. He became a monster not because he wanted to, but circumstance pushed him to be so.
"So... this guy was called Angron. And he was angry all the time?" "Yes." "And his legion had a reputation for brutality? And then when they found their primarch they started putting chips in their head to make them very angry? They changed their name to the *World Eaters*?" "Yes!" "And you are saying it was a surprise when they turned against the Imperium?" "Yes! No warning signs at all!"
Curze had no one. Lorgar was tainted from the whispers of Erebus and Kor. Horus was jealous. Mortarion wanted his vengeance. Fulgrim got corrupted. Perturabo wanted recognition. Magnus was put into a position where he was damned either way. Alpharius Omegon ..[REDACTED] I feel some of the primarchs had reasons to turn but none had as much a reason as Angron did. Put into slavery to fight in the gladiatorial pits, finally after years of killing he breaks out with his slave sisters and brothers. Finally thinking he was going to get some peace and have a warrior's death with his friends for all the years of pain and suffering in the pits only for that flame to be snuffed out by the Emperor who teleported Angron out of the final slave battle. Thus Angron watched as all his friends died in that finale battle, then having to watch the Emperor keep the rulers and planet alive all because they bent the knee to Him. No War Hounds were sent, no Custodes were sent, no Imperial Wrath. Angron was a slave beginning to end. From the early life on Nuceria to his crusade with his brothers, to his eternal damnation and rise through Chaos. And thus Angron the betrayed would grow into Angron the betrayer. Tis a sad tale, truly.
It always seemed so stupid that the Emperor teleported Angron away instead of sending forces down to fight with him. It's the obvious choice and it makes the Emperor look like an idiot that he made the choice that guaranteed his son would betray him.
I always took it as a punishment. Almost all primarchs took control of the worlds they ended up on. Angron got enslaved and almost killed in a pretty minor rebellion.
My theory is this: The Emperor wanted a legion with the butchers nails, and foresaw that he'd get that if he teleported Angron away from his comrades. Angron would have NEVER put the nails in a Jochura, or an Asti, or any of his other gladiator kin had they been allowed rise into legionaries. And if the Emperor had sent the War Hounds down to save Angron's legion, he would have seen his legion as an extension of his gladiator brothers and sisters, and wouldn't have made them suffer his malady either. By letting the Eaters of Cities die, the Emperor caused Angron to see his legion as the tyrant's army that forcibly replaced the brothers and sisters he'd suffered with on Nuceria and caused him to resent them. Now he saw implanting the newly found World Eaters with nails as a way of actually making his army HIS instead of belonging to the man who had essentially allowed his entire family to die. Now the Empeor had a savage army of berzerkers that could conquer worlds quickly and perhaps make up for that fact that he'd lose two of his legions as the crusade progressed, and all he had to do to get it was lose the love a son who was predicted to die before the end of great crusade anyway.
My theory is that Nuceria had agreed to compliance already. If the Emperor had allied himself with Angron & his fellow rebels then there would have been a protracted compliance campaign. Ultimately, the Emperor’s practicality would cost him a great deal more than he expected.
Which is, of course, the Tragedy of it all. The Emperor was so obsessed with his own fascist vision of total galactic control, he cared not for the feelings of his own sons. Acts which, in the end, alienated them, and made them susceptible to Chaos. Though, in truth, I think Angron was always going to rebel against the Emperor, even without Chaos's influence.
The only thing that can make the Emperor's treatment of Angron make sense is if Angron's hatred of the Emperor was the only thing that kept him alive. Maybe if the Emperor had helped Angron, his lifespan would have naturally been shorter and the effect of the nails more detrimental.
The explanation is really quite simple: to begin with the emperor looked at the primarchs as tools. Some he grew fond of (Horus to name the most obvious one) others he simply disliked or felt they were less useful than he had planned for them to be. That was the case with Angron. He found him “broken”by the butcher’s nails so he had no incentive to invest resources and upset a human planet. He simply took his defective tool away and left the rebels to die, but doing so he misjudged Angron’s loyalty to his brothers and sisters and earned his eternal enmity
Some suggest that the Emperor had predicted the Heresy, and was trying to manipulate which legions fell to chaos to his own benefit. In this, he must have only been partially successful.
@@SonofSethoitae it’s a retcon from the original lore and it doesn’t make much sense because the Emperor named his favored tool, Horus, as the war master and Horus ends up betraying him (and his corruption is also an addition to the lore I don’t really care for)
Another solid summary Ian. I have not read all the lore so I find these really informative. I am currently leaning toward the White Scars or Salamanders for my legion army build.
The main issue I have with blood angels is that when you paint them it’s hard to see their icon because the black doesn’t stand out from the red so it just looks like a red shoulder with a dirty smudge on it.
If you haven't already, READ CHRIS WRAIGHT'S WHITE SCAR BOOKS. I didn't care about the White Scars at all before I read "Scars", "The Path of Heaven", "Jaghatai Khan: Warhawk of Chogoris" and "Siege of Terra: Warhawk", now they're my favorite loyalist legions. Even other Black Library writers like Dan Abnett say those books completely changed their opinion on the legion, such is their awesomeness.
You are an inspiration my friend. Already finishing the first trilogy in the Heresy novels, and your insightful and illuminating observations are always a wonder to take in. Have a great day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
Great video. Here are a few necessary additional details (in my opinion): Eldar troups attacked Angron (as a toddler) upon his arrival on Nuceria (probably due to some prophecy, those stupid meddling Eldars). Angron actually fought them off (primarchs are that powerful) but suffered severe injuries which in turn allowed the high-riders to enslave him (it would probably have been impossible otherwise). Also, Angron was an empath and was most likely created to provide support (emotional and perhaps also medical) to the other primarchs. He was however slowly stripped of his empathic abilities by the implantation of the butcher's nails which had been done against his will, after he had been forcefully sedated. Truly a tragic fate.
Ah, one of my favourite Legions since I started getting into Warhammer a few months ago! This was an awesome video, haha, I'm so glad I discovered your channel! Very tempted to choose them for my 30k army, but also leaning towards my other favourite Legions the Night Lords, the Iron Hands and the Thousand Sons, too many cool factions to decide 😅
I will always have mixed feelings about Angron. His resentment of the Emporer is justified, as the Emporer chose the worst possible option because he didn't understand Angron... But I don't agree with many that Angron could be redeemed. He is one of the few traitor legions that I felt was always going to turn traitor. The nails just precluded him from ever being anything but a warlord (also doesn't help Angron is basically a meme in 40k). And, while some of his commentary about the Emporer is spot on, unlike other Legions, Angron was always in a rush to start wars. Call the Emporer a tyrant all you want, doesn't mean anything when you're the legion looking for a reason to kill millions on a planet because they looked at you weird. I mean, atleast other Legions tried to avoid war. Horus even went so far as to try to forge alliances with people like the Interex... Damn Word Bearers.
The fact that emps looked at angron and was like "yep imma give this guy total control of an army of super soldiers." Is proof that he was pretty much asking for the horus heresy
Besides just the Minotaurs, Bellasarius Cawl has also been extremely sketchy about using Terran recruits and traitor geneseed to try out while making Primaris Marines, so definitely another option in 40k And so many second founding chapters look wildly different even thought they were based on loyal legion heraldry, it's not a stretch to use some combination of red, white, blue, black, gold as your own force. Between the preference for their unique grill helms, or gladiator style slits, chains and chain axes, I think even an all black armor force would be able to be modeled very appropriately to World Eater loyal successors
One thing I do find interesting with the Warhound is that they were another legion who could be considered the Emperor’s beat stick and one closer to himself like the First or the Rout. Interesting to hear about how they have this common feature but it represents itself in different ways from the secret keeper and illegal gear of the First, the hunters and more autonomous Rout to the personal hammer of the Hounds.
Good video,. however you missed two pretty important bits of lore. 1) the infant Angron was found by slavers amongst a pile of dead Eldar warriors, presumably sent to kill him. Which is why he was weak enough for them to enslave him. 2) the butcher's nails were only fitted after he had attempted numerous escapes as a way to control him.
I plan on getting some khorne berserkers and painting the front of them in their 40k colors and then having the backs painted in their Heresy colors with the idea being their fronts are covered in blood
Never thought I could see Angron as noble and sympathetic, or the World Eaters as having honor, but having just finished the Horus Heresy novel "Betrayer: Blood for thr Blood God" I was shocked to come away with just those opinions. Great book.
Big E: "My son is obviously extremely loyal to his people and despite his clear mental instability shows signs of honor and devotion. Horus: "Helping him defend his people would likely secure his loyalty forever and give his legion a proud leader" Big E: " ... I imagine pulling him away from all his friends and allies at the last second will definitely not backfire in anyway"
Really nice video. So much was very tragic. Now in 40K they are nothing but angry axe murder man. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Just want to say I love your videos! I’ve never been a fan of 40k personally but the way you present and talk about the lore is engrossing, and you’re a great steward of the hobby :)
Angron is one of the primarchs that is most understandable why he revealed himself against the Emperor, it was not so difficult for the Emperor to help him in the revolt and then take him away, but he preferred to take him out without any explanation.
The next Siege of Terra novel is going to be "Echoes of Eternity" by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, who wrote "Betrayer", the quintessential World Eater story of the Horus Heresy, which has a part where Angron and Lorgar speculate as to why the Emperor did what he did and Angron promising he WILL get an answer once he gets to terra. So it could very well be that we'll get an answer in a few months.
My idea has always been this: Angron was found VERY late during the Crusade, Big E wanted really bad to get back to Terra and start his webway project. Nuceria was in fact one of the 500 worlds of Ultramar. Altho decadent, the nucerian ruling class was compliant, paying taxes, etc. So Emps 1) didn't one to sepend more time with his "primarchs" because he had other things in mind and 2) didn't want to antagonize one of the most loyal Primarchs, and stable regions of his new Imperium by ancting unilateraly on one compliant world. And before you say "but those gladiator traditions were Barbarinc!", sure, but im sure there were more planets doing it. If you followed the Imperial Truth, payed taxes, I think most non-religious traditions were tolerated.
Angron and the World Eaters have always been a legion that made no sense to me. Their legion is known for unrivalled savagery? Well, except for the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Night Lords, Iron Hands...all the legions were renowned for their brutal savagery so what makes them any different? As for Angron, the other primarchs have stories like "when he was a toddler, he killed 1000 adult men with his nappies and took over the planet and was an indestructible living god by age 3" So did they implant the Butcher's Nails in a baby in a hope he would be a gladiator? If he was as big as a tank and an unstoppable beast of carnage, how did his masters keep him in check? I can easily just handwaive and accept many of the other Primarch stories *cough*batman*cough* but Angron's story still doesn't make sense to me.
@ DHK48 When Angron first came out of the birthing pod he was attacked by what’s widely assumed to be Dark Eldar reavers and killed them with a rock and his teeth, but he was bloodied and weakened enough that the slavers were able to capture him with tranquilizers. He was not given the butcher’s nails immediately but instead they were put into him for refusing to kill a fellow gladiator who was also his foster father. After putting the nails into him they high riders put him right back into the arena where he killed said foster father in a berserk rage. This is all detailed in “Angron: Slave of Nuceria”. Ian only gives an overview of the legion histories in these short videos, so I’d recommend actually reading if there are plot points that don’t make sense to you because, odds are, the questions you have have already been addressed by the twelve or so Black Library writers who’ve been writing the Horus Heresy books for over 17 years.
Please do a video on the time periods which have the least amount of detail. When creating say a unique space marine chapter having ideas of where those chapters can fit in would be amazing!
In one of the first 3 horus heresy books (False Gods, I think?) It is said that Angron specifically refused to have the butchers nails removed. Not sure if this is just what the other legions think happened or if it is a continuity error, but it is a fun lil tidbit
Man, what a sad fate for Angron, in so many ways. I can't not draw a tiny parallel between his loyalty to his fellow slaves, and Sanguinius' loyalty to the IX legion. I wonder what the latter thought of the former's treatment by the Emperor.
It's odd to hear about the pre-gene sire Worldeaters as a legion of butcherers but with better discipline. Angron's primarch novel slave of Nuceria shows a moment were his touch is able to take away another persons pain and absorb it into himself. This ability seems to have been lost or forgotten about when he recieved the nails but implies to me the warhounds was to be more akin to healers than war makers. Like maybe they'd be a special apothercary heavy legion who were deployed to worlds blighted by disease and sickness and figure out how to cure them.
I’ve only just found your channel and I am loving these videos you’ve done the HH. These are so intestine and I love listening to them. Listening to these really make me want to have a go at the HH. These are great to work out which legion to focus on. Of course it will be a traitor one for me. Looking forward to your Death Guard video.
"I have conquered entire civilizations that desired nothing more than to simply be left alone. I am ordered to demand tithes and tributes of soldiers from them and we call this liberation, because we're too afraid to call it what it is, slavery." - Angron
Bit off topic since Im talking about 40k not 30k but if the day ever comes for me to collect a second 40k army it's gonna be a world eater army for sure.
@@alfieingrouille1528 well I hope so for the sake of others, I personally don't care for it because I overall don't care much for named hero models in 40k in general. Kinda for the same reason I don't have much care for rpg games that makes ya play a fixed, establish character.
hey Ian, i'm absolutely loving these videos as a new horus heresy fan. i'm wondering if you would consider doing one of these for the loyalist titan legio and traitor titan legio?
I've seen people try to shoot down the idea that Big E should have helped Angron fight the high riders. There seems to be much comparison to the fact that he helped Mortarion and all Morty did was resent him for it. I wholeheartedly believe that in Angron's case it would have worked perfectly. Angron valued martial skill, honor and most of all *camaraderie* He would have seen Big E fighting in person to help his warrior brothers and sisters and a bond would have been forged. I also believe that, as others have stated, Angron would have eventually led his own "heresy" against Big E. Even with the Nails eating his mind, Angron knew a tyrant when he saw one. Hehe, "saw one".
I’m really enjoying these videos. It would be cool to have videos about all the legions currently. I like Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim. I know it’s ironic but I see myself in both of these characters. Should I turn myself into the authorities now or no?
I mean if the emperor was actually pragmatic about things and someone with actual compassion, he should've told Angron the truth and given him the option of carrying on or peacefully ending his life. Then emperor could do his bullshit and cloned Angron so he'd have a none Butcher's nail Angron, but when has then emperor ever actually cared about his tools
What books should I read to learn about the WEs role in the shadow crusade against ultramar? I'd like to know more about that as it sounds great for themeing my 30k WE army around
The Horus Heresy novel Betrayer is the best novel for that. It's supported by the novellas Slave of Nuceria and The Butchers Nails and it follows directly on from The First Heretic, which is the big Word Bearers novel. I'd go: The First Heretic Butchers Nails BETRAYER Slave of Nuceria
*Games Workshop* : We need deep Lore and interesting names for planets and people. *Also Games Workshop* : We will fkn name him Angron and you cant stop me.
One of the biggest mistakes in Heresy era artwork that seems to consistently missed is the presence of the 40k era armoured prows. These were not brought into service until millenia after the Heresy, yet the anachronistic use of them in Heresy artwork continues. People would rightfully point out the mistake of other 40k era equipment in Heresy art, I imagine this is simply a case of lack of awareness amongst the fanbase and more importantly the artists.
@@ArbitorIan Fair enough, although the Glorianas varied in design massively and are very much a special case. Armoured prows apparantly didn't become more widespread until well after the Heresy so my point stands, a lot of Heresy era artwork is incorrect (I'm going off the BFG rulebook here so please correct me if it's since been retconned).
I was always skeptical that the emperor tried his best to fix angron and remove the nails. When your goal is a peaceful universe and one of your killing machines has a built in kill switch why fix it
probably the most tragic Primarch, was he supposed to be empathetic and probably a guardian of sorts kind fo like Vulkan ? Instead he is the angry man Angrron, who angry angers
It is a tale of tragedy, Angron was truly empathetic, but twisted by the nails and his situation. Had he arrived on a planet similar to horus, he would have led the loyalist, not sanguinius or girlyman.
Mass infantry assault? Their early tactics kind of sound similar to the Lunar Wolves. Those fought at the very front of th unification wars though and weren't held in reserve.
Angron: *delivers the hardest line about his life you've ever heard*
Ian: *gets right back into talk about the World Eaters fleet and supplies*
😆
9:20 is the start of the Angron line for those looking for a bookmark.
@@barklordofthesith2997 May you live happily and may your children never turn against you for providing such simple comfort as providing a bookmark.
I always liked Angron because he was one of the few Primarchs who understood the Emperor was a tyrant, and he even had a sense of nobility under all that rage and pain, but the tragedy is he was too broken to be anything other than a monster. I guess his horrific treatment of his legion makes sense if he considers them as some tyrant’s army rather than his own sons.
"Maybe I would mount the steps to our fathers throne.... and take the slaving bastards head!"
There's an Alternate Heresy out there somewhere, where Angron revolts against both the Emperor AND Chaos.
Huh, d'you know the name of that AU heresy..? (It sounds a little like " _what if Angrin were the Primarch of the Soul Drinkers_ "… which isn't a bad thing :)
Yeah but he ends up willingly serving khorne he couldn't care less about his state of being. If the emperor really was a tyrant than he wouldn't have bothered saving angron he would've put a bolt round in his head and called it a day.
@@apacalypsagon3758 I don’t see how the Emperor not killing Angron is a counterpoint to his tyranny. Angron was a useful butcher, that’s a good, and callous, reason to keep him alive. Also, pretty sure the Emperor is a tyrant, even some of the Loyalist Primarchs seem to think so.
I feel very sorry for Angron. He was broken but he didn't have to be. There was a nobility to him that he never had an opportunity to really show
His fate is very cruel indeed, and this too is the Emperor's fault, to a certain degree. It's probable that Angron's original design was to be used as a battering ram to propel the Crusade forward before being discarded and culled, just as was done with the Thunder Warriors on Terra when they were no longer of use.
@@dekai7992 I've heard that his original plan was to be an empath (like a healer class in a video game) but the butchers nails kinda put the kabosh to that idea.
@@barklordofthesith2997 Sounds plausible, too. And very cruel in a typical 40k way. That would make you wonder why the Emperor didn't remove the nails, as it's hinted at the fact that he had the power to do so.
Maybe he's just always been a bad dad.
@@dekai7992 Coz Angron would die if the nail is removed.
@@Ray-yv7kn Yes and no. It is implied that the Emperor had the ability to remove them, but chose not to, presumably because Angry Angron was a more useful tool at the time than a healer.
I remember the nails were ultimately going to kill him but Angron was ok with that. So becoming an immortal Deamon Prince is a terrible fate because he is still in pain. Damn Lorgar.
Its canonical that the nails no longer have an effect on him. There is no anger, no pain, just slaughter.
@@tfan2222 they removed that cannon. The nails still affect him even as a demon prince
I remember reading somewhere any normal human eventually would be killed because they gradually burrow deeper into the brain like porcupine quills.
But being a primarch, his healing is strong enough that while he can't push them out, he can at least keep them at bay.
@@haroldsandahl6408 Kinda dumb, how does human tech cause pain to a daemon prince?
Never understood why they couldn’t take them out.
I will (ironically) die on the hill that Angron could have stayed loyal. All the Emperor had to do was teleport down to Nuceria with a handful of marines, and fight off the slavers alongside Angron. It would show Angron that the Emperor isn’t afraid to do the fighting himself (which was demonstrated throughout the Crusade), and that he understands how important the Primarch’s heritage is to Him (which, with how Emps treated Sanguinius’ homeworld, is something that Emps is capable of recognizing). A workaround for the Nails is another issue entirely, but it would start their relationship on a better footing.
But no, Emps Way or no way, because He said so.
Yep, Neoth's decision was a great example of how he'd all but lost his humanity following the creation of the primarchs and whatever shit he had to do on Moloch.
I like to imagine that the Emperor being a gestalt being has different personas "in the driving seat" at different times, which explains why he behaves in such a wildly inconsistent manner.
The emperor was a being born of the ritual suicide of thousands of psykers (and currently he’s basically a god in the Warhammer sense of the word) “humanity” has always been a vague concept for him and also “humanity” has several bad traits
Yeah, why didn't he just help Angron win?
He did exactly that for Mortarion, who resented him afterwards.
I don't believe that Lorgar was trying to save Angron - I think he was trying to get a Primarch for each of his gods. After he'd ticked Khorne off the list he ignored Angron, gave him no assistance or insight into what he'd done to him and basically left him to rot. This is my own interpretation, nothing to do with the quality of your video which was excellent! Thank you.
I honestly don't think Lorgar would have understood the difference, at least in how ADB characterizes him. And since no one was gonna give Angron the rehab, therapy, medication and retirement he needed, I think ascension to daemonhood may actually have been about the best life he was ever going to get, kind of in an addiction-isn't-a-problem-if-it-doesn't-have-negative-consequences-kinda way.
They would also use chains to chain their weapons to their arms so they never dropped them in battle, this is a trait that was adapted and still used by the Black Templars chapter because their original leader Sigismund was friends with Kharn and would duel in their gladiatorial pits on occasion.
It's always interesting seeing the ways even Loyalists continued to be influenced by practices developed by the Traitor legions. The World Eaters as mentioned above. The Librarian structure pioneered partially by Magnus. Lorgar basically writing the book on Emperor worship that became the religion of the Imperium. Etc, etc.
I've been wanting to start collecting a Loyalist army for the Horus Heresy to compliment my love of all the baddies of the setting, and honestly this video is very much tempting me to begin an army of Loyalist War Hounds. The fall of the World Eaters as they desperately try and understand their broken primarch and connect with him in the only language he understands, the constant ring of the Butcher's Nails in their heads, is truly crushing to see.
I've always wanted an army of loyalist war hounds too! Love the idea and also their colour scheme. And now I have to go and spend more money on more space marines 🤣
This is sort of my plan. Maybe someday. Loyalist warhounds, maybe lead by one of the last librarians, trying to stop the spread of what they have become before they too descend into madness.
Having only just started the Heresy novels, I didn't realize Angron was such a tragic figure. Wow. And I didn't realize how true the memes were about how bad a dad the Emperor was, and how many seemingly short-sighted decisions he made leading to such catastrophic consequences. Really loving this series Ian, as always!
Betrayer by ADB is the book that covers Angron and Kharn during the rampage through Ultramar. It's one of the best books I've read, Horus Heresy or otherwise. You're in for a treat when you get to it.
Many said that the Emperor just hated him because basically every Primarch was the ruler of their world when the emperor arrived. Angron however was not the ruler of his world and was on the verge of death when he showed up.
The emperor could have avoided all of this if instead of transporting Angron up, he instead fought alongside him and brought some marines to defeat their enemies which would have made Angron insanely loyal.
@@DaniMol No it wasn’t, not to this scale at least. It would be a fucking stupid idea
i just finished reading the betrayer Horus heresy novel and i think it does the best job of explaining Angron’s character and the tragedy that is the XIIth legion.
For some reason the emperor teleported Angron away from his gladiator slave brothers and sisters before what should’ve been Angron’s greatest and final battle against those who enslaved him and his comrades. instead of the emps just coming down and helping with Angron’s legion and saving and healing his planet like he had done with the Lion or provided an opportunity for bonding like he did with Vulcan. From then on Angron would obviously resent his father for his actions
meanwhile his sons who admire and honor him want to connect more with him and almost all the legion go through with the installation of the butchers nails in their brains. sacrificing their minds to literal constant pain when not in combat just to understand their distant and pained primarch bit more
truly grimdark
Angron’s an odd duck who missed a bit of his potential as a character. The idea that he was supposed to be a healer is extremely interesting, it wasn’t used nearly as much as it should’ve been. It also didn’t match with the idea of the world eaters already being butchers before he arrived. I would’ve loved it if it was lent into more, and the world eaters had of started off as medics, healers and defenders of the weak before being turned into bloody butchers.
That said, Kharn is stupidly cool, as is that lady flying their ship.
Angron was not a 'healer', that's a huge leap in what his powers are actually described as being in "Slave of Nuceria" and perpetuated by people who don't actually read the series very well or care about its nuance, like Majorkill. He could simply absorb other people's pain, particularly the pain of his comrades-- a trait that goes well with a primarch who seemed to have been designed to have been the embodiment of martial brotherhood, which seems to be what the Emperor had originally intended him to be.
@@nadanone8905 hmmm, I’m not sure I’d call that a huge leap, it seems an equal stretch to say that power is really a specific expression of “martial brotherhood”. Regardless, that’s a lot more boring than than what people “like majorkill” interpret, as a legion of medics and healers would be interesting whereas most legions were already expressing martial brotherhoodyness.
@@Thetallestgirrafe Majorkill can make amusing content, but he is a TERRIBLE source of information on 40k lore and should only be taken as a comedy act, like TTS or 1d4chan, and the idea that War Hounds was a bunch of healers is a line I've only ever heard him promote. And you don't have to worry about it being 'boring', because they stopped being the legion of brotherhoodness when Angron took over.
Lotarra Sarin something
Not a interesting idea. It's so unoriginal and predictable.
For being a very blood thirsty legion you do have to admire how well they manage their supplies especially the fact that all their battles are basically battles of attrition
Something that has always bothered me. Not so much for the HH, but the idea that in 40k there are ANY World Eaters left alive when there tactic is to run directly at the enemy is a little insane.
@@LemanRussVanquisher Khorne gives them plot armor except in close combat
@@LemanRussVanquisherOh bud, like the Alpha Legion there's staggeringly few true Veterans of the Long War left. Berzerker-Surgeons use sorcerous rituals and hereteknica to mass produce new warriors in a months time in birthing vats. It's wasteful, more so than Warsmith Honsou's Daemonculaba, but they can pop out new marines brainwashed with millennia of memories of combat experience stolen from dead World Eaters veterans to accommodate the constant slaughter. These new recruits are also completely insane but they're essentially born as Khorne Berzerkers so ymmv
Angron is probably my favorite primarch just because how tragic his life was. He became a monster not because he wanted to, but circumstance pushed him to be so.
"So... this guy was called Angron. And he was angry all the time?"
"Yes."
"And his legion had a reputation for brutality? And then when they found their primarch they started putting chips in their head to make them very angry? They changed their name to the *World Eaters*?"
"Yes!"
"And you are saying it was a surprise when they turned against the Imperium?"
"Yes! No warning signs at all!"
The world eaters actually had some of the highest amount of loyalists among the traitor legions during the heresy
@@rocksaltzwidaz3411 I think that was due to a lot of them hating their primarch.
Curze had no one. Lorgar was tainted from the whispers of Erebus and Kor. Horus was jealous. Mortarion wanted his vengeance. Fulgrim got corrupted. Perturabo wanted recognition. Magnus was put into a position where he was damned either way. Alpharius Omegon ..[REDACTED]
I feel some of the primarchs had reasons to turn but none had as much a reason as Angron did.
Put into slavery to fight in the gladiatorial pits, finally after years of killing he breaks out with his slave sisters and brothers. Finally thinking he was going to get some peace and have a warrior's death with his friends for all the years of pain and suffering in the pits only for that flame to be snuffed out by the Emperor who teleported Angron out of the final slave battle. Thus Angron watched as all his friends died in that finale battle, then having to watch the Emperor keep the rulers and planet alive all because they bent the knee to Him. No War Hounds were sent, no Custodes were sent, no Imperial Wrath. Angron was a slave beginning to end. From the early life on Nuceria to his crusade with his brothers, to his eternal damnation and rise through Chaos.
And thus Angron the betrayed would grow into Angron the betrayer. Tis a sad tale, truly.
It always seemed so stupid that the Emperor teleported Angron away instead of sending forces down to fight with him.
It's the obvious choice and it makes the Emperor look like an idiot that he made the choice that guaranteed his son would betray him.
I always took it as a punishment.
Almost all primarchs took control of the worlds they ended up on. Angron got enslaved and almost killed in a pretty minor rebellion.
I mean, the emperor did many stupid things
My theory is this: The Emperor wanted a legion with the butchers nails, and foresaw that he'd get that if he teleported Angron away from his comrades. Angron would have NEVER put the nails in a Jochura, or an Asti, or any of his other gladiator kin had they been allowed rise into legionaries. And if the Emperor had sent the War Hounds down to save Angron's legion, he would have seen his legion as an extension of his gladiator brothers and sisters, and wouldn't have made them suffer his malady either. By letting the Eaters of Cities die, the Emperor caused Angron to see his legion as the tyrant's army that forcibly replaced the brothers and sisters he'd suffered with on Nuceria and caused him to resent them. Now he saw implanting the newly found World Eaters with nails as a way of actually making his army HIS instead of belonging to the man who had essentially allowed his entire family to die. Now the Empeor had a savage army of berzerkers that could conquer worlds quickly and perhaps make up for that fact that he'd lose two of his legions as the crusade progressed, and all he had to do to get it was lose the love a son who was predicted to die before the end of great crusade anyway.
My theory is that Nuceria had agreed to compliance already. If the Emperor had allied himself with Angron & his fellow rebels then there would have been a protracted compliance campaign.
Ultimately, the Emperor’s practicality would cost him a great deal more than he expected.
Which is, of course, the Tragedy of it all. The Emperor was so obsessed with his own fascist vision of total galactic control, he cared not for the feelings of his own sons. Acts which, in the end, alienated them, and made them susceptible to Chaos.
Though, in truth, I think Angron was always going to rebel against the Emperor, even without Chaos's influence.
🧐6:52. Cairn: A Pile of Rocks. Khârn: 8th Assault Captain.
This series is excessively good! Great for old timers and perfect for anyone pondering what legion they should collect.
The only thing that can make the Emperor's treatment of Angron make sense is if Angron's hatred of the Emperor was the only thing that kept him alive. Maybe if the Emperor had helped Angron, his lifespan would have naturally been shorter and the effect of the nails more detrimental.
The explanation is really quite simple: to begin with the emperor looked at the primarchs as tools. Some he grew fond of (Horus to name the most obvious one) others he simply disliked or felt they were less useful than he had planned for them to be. That was the case with Angron. He found him “broken”by the butcher’s nails so he had no incentive to invest resources and upset a human planet. He simply took his defective tool away and left the rebels to die, but doing so he misjudged Angron’s loyalty to his brothers and sisters and earned his eternal enmity
Some suggest that the Emperor had predicted the Heresy, and was trying to manipulate which legions fell to chaos to his own benefit. In this, he must have only been partially successful.
@@SonofSethoitae it’s a retcon from the original lore and it doesn’t make much sense because the Emperor named his favored tool, Horus, as the war master and Horus ends up betraying him (and his corruption is also an addition to the lore I don’t really care for)
@@Tulkash01 Hasn't Horus' corruption been part of the lore since Rogue Trader? Certainly since the Realms of Chaos books
@@SonofSethoitae The way it happened? I think not. The way the current lore is it makes it seem the corruption wasn’t actually Horus’ choice
Another solid summary Ian. I have not read all the lore so I find these really informative. I am currently leaning toward the White Scars or Salamanders for my legion army build.
Thought about blood angels? That’s my favourite personally but love both salamanders and white scars!
The main issue I have with blood angels is that when you paint them it’s hard to see their icon because the black doesn’t stand out from the red so it just looks like a red shoulder with a dirty smudge on it.
If you haven't already, READ CHRIS WRAIGHT'S WHITE SCAR BOOKS. I didn't care about the White Scars at all before I read "Scars", "The Path of Heaven", "Jaghatai Khan: Warhawk of Chogoris" and "Siege of Terra: Warhawk", now they're my favorite loyalist legions. Even other Black Library writers like Dan Abnett say those books completely changed their opinion on the legion, such is their awesomeness.
You are an inspiration my friend. Already finishing the first trilogy in the Heresy novels, and your insightful and illuminating observations are always a wonder to take in. Have a great day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
Angron’s novel fleshed out his character. Really enjoyed it.
Great video. Here are a few necessary additional details (in my opinion): Eldar troups attacked Angron (as a toddler) upon his arrival on Nuceria (probably due to some prophecy, those stupid meddling Eldars). Angron actually fought them off (primarchs are that powerful) but suffered severe injuries which in turn allowed the high-riders to enslave him (it would probably have been impossible otherwise). Also, Angron was an empath and was most likely created to provide support (emotional and perhaps also medical) to the other primarchs. He was however slowly stripped of his empathic abilities by the implantation of the butcher's nails which had been done against his will, after he had been forcefully sedated. Truly a tragic fate.
I've fallen asleep to this 2 days in a row. Got some stuff going on and your super laid back videos are doing a world of good
Ah, one of my favourite Legions since I started getting into Warhammer a few months ago! This was an awesome video, haha, I'm so glad I discovered your channel! Very tempted to choose them for my 30k army, but also leaning towards my other favourite Legions the Night Lords, the Iron Hands and the Thousand Sons, too many cool factions to decide 😅
I will always have mixed feelings about Angron. His resentment of the Emporer is justified, as the Emporer chose the worst possible option because he didn't understand Angron... But I don't agree with many that Angron could be redeemed. He is one of the few traitor legions that I felt was always going to turn traitor. The nails just precluded him from ever being anything but a warlord (also doesn't help Angron is basically a meme in 40k).
And, while some of his commentary about the Emporer is spot on, unlike other Legions, Angron was always in a rush to start wars. Call the Emporer a tyrant all you want, doesn't mean anything when you're the legion looking for a reason to kill millions on a planet because they looked at you weird.
I mean, atleast other Legions tried to avoid war. Horus even went so far as to try to forge alliances with people like the Interex... Damn Word Bearers.
The fact that emps looked at angron and was like "yep imma give this guy total control of an army of super soldiers." Is proof that he was pretty much asking for the horus heresy
I hope some loyalists World-Eater turn blackShields survived and become chapters of Their Own.
No need to hope, the material is out there for you to create this yourself :)
@@Pokemaple I know that, but not what I meant.
There are a few fan theories that the Minotaurs have World Eater geneseed
Besides just the Minotaurs, Bellasarius Cawl has also been extremely sketchy about using Terran recruits and traitor geneseed to try out while making Primaris Marines, so definitely another option in 40k
And so many second founding chapters look wildly different even thought they were based on loyal legion heraldry, it's not a stretch to use some combination of red, white, blue, black, gold as your own force. Between the preference for their unique grill helms, or gladiator style slits, chains and chain axes, I think even an all black armor force would be able to be modeled very appropriately to World Eater loyal successors
@@Crushanator1 Oh, that's going to become a problem in the near future😳
Lorgar: "Time to save my brother from turning into a mindless killing machine" *(feeds Angron to KHORNE)*
One thing I do find interesting with the Warhound is that they were another legion who could be considered the Emperor’s beat stick and one closer to himself like the First or the Rout. Interesting to hear about how they have this common feature but it represents itself in different ways from the secret keeper and illegal gear of the First, the hunters and more autonomous Rout to the personal hammer of the Hounds.
Good video,. however you missed two pretty important bits of lore.
1) the infant Angron was found by slavers amongst a pile of dead Eldar warriors, presumably sent to kill him. Which is why he was weak enough for them to enslave him.
2) the butcher's nails were only fitted after he had attempted numerous escapes as a way to control him.
I plan on getting some khorne berserkers and painting the front of them in their 40k colors and then having the backs painted in their Heresy colors with the idea being their fronts are covered in blood
Never thought I could see Angron as noble and sympathetic, or the World Eaters as having honor, but having just finished the Horus Heresy novel "Betrayer: Blood for thr Blood God" I was shocked to come away with just those opinions. Great book.
Big E: "My son is obviously extremely loyal to his people and despite his clear mental instability shows signs of honor and devotion.
Horus: "Helping him defend his people would likely secure his loyalty forever and give his legion a proud leader"
Big E: " ... I imagine pulling him away from all his friends and allies at the last second will definitely not backfire in anyway"
Really nice video. So much was very tragic. Now in 40K they are nothing but angry axe murder man. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Just want to say I love your videos! I’ve never been a fan of 40k personally but the way you present and talk about the lore is engrossing, and you’re a great steward of the hobby :)
That pronunciation of kharn hurt my brain
Angron is one of the primarchs that is most understandable why he revealed himself against the Emperor, it was not so difficult for the Emperor to help him in the revolt and then take him away, but he preferred to take him out without any explanation.
The emperor doesn't always make the best decisions does he? ^^
Wow! I had no idea Angron was actually kind of a victim.
He really was.. the lore needed such character to see the emperor from a different persepctive ;)
"Angron, calm down. Please, see reason."
- famous last words among World Eaters legion
A really tragic story. And here I am with my World Eaters army I started 25 years ago because of a Bolt Thrower song...
The Emperor refusing to help Angron fight the Slavers always seemed very out of character to me. Oh well. Emperor bad.
The next Siege of Terra novel is going to be "Echoes of Eternity" by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, who wrote "Betrayer", the quintessential World Eater story of the Horus Heresy, which has a part where Angron and Lorgar speculate as to why the Emperor did what he did and Angron promising he WILL get an answer once he gets to terra. So it could very well be that we'll get an answer in a few months.
My idea has always been this: Angron was found VERY late during the Crusade, Big E wanted really bad to get back to Terra and start his webway project. Nuceria was in fact one of the 500 worlds of Ultramar. Altho decadent, the nucerian ruling class was compliant, paying taxes, etc.
So Emps 1) didn't one to sepend more time with his "primarchs" because he had other things in mind and 2) didn't want to antagonize one of the most loyal Primarchs, and stable regions of his new Imperium by ancting unilateraly on one compliant world. And before you say "but those gladiator traditions were Barbarinc!", sure, but im sure there were more planets doing it. If you followed the Imperial Truth, payed taxes, I think most non-religious traditions were tolerated.
"Cerberus! The little Hounds didn't have it All their own way."
Love the actual footage 😂 bit at the top 5:43
Thanks for the videos. Angron is one of the saddest Primarchs.
Angron and the World Eaters have always been a legion that made no sense to me.
Their legion is known for unrivalled savagery? Well, except for the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Night Lords, Iron Hands...all the legions were renowned for their brutal savagery so what makes them any different?
As for Angron, the other primarchs have stories like "when he was a toddler, he killed 1000 adult men with his nappies and took over the planet and was an indestructible living god by age 3"
So did they implant the Butcher's Nails in a baby in a hope he would be a gladiator? If he was as big as a tank and an unstoppable beast of carnage, how did his masters keep him in check?
I can easily just handwaive and accept many of the other Primarch stories *cough*batman*cough* but Angron's story still doesn't make sense to me.
@ DHK48
When Angron first came out of the birthing pod he was attacked by what’s widely assumed to be Dark Eldar reavers and killed them with a rock and his teeth, but he was bloodied and weakened enough that the slavers were able to capture him with tranquilizers. He was not given the butcher’s nails immediately but instead they were put into him for refusing to kill a fellow gladiator who was also his foster father. After putting the nails into him they high riders put him right back into the arena where he killed said foster father in a berserk rage. This is all detailed in “Angron: Slave of Nuceria”. Ian only gives an overview of the legion histories in these short videos, so I’d recommend actually reading if there are plot points that don’t make sense to you because, odds are, the questions you have have already been addressed by the twelve or so Black Library writers who’ve been writing the Horus Heresy books for over 17 years.
Please do a video on the time periods which have the least amount of detail. When creating say a unique space marine chapter having ideas of where those chapters can fit in would be amazing!
Blood for the blood god.
In one of the first 3 horus heresy books (False Gods, I think?) It is said that Angron specifically refused to have the butchers nails removed. Not sure if this is just what the other legions think happened or if it is a continuity error, but it is a fun lil tidbit
Man, what a sad fate for Angron, in so many ways.
I can't not draw a tiny parallel between his loyalty to his fellow slaves, and Sanguinius' loyalty to the IX legion. I wonder what the latter thought of the former's treatment by the Emperor.
Loving these fantastic 40k lore videos. Keep up the great work.
It's odd to hear about the pre-gene sire Worldeaters as a legion of butcherers but with better discipline. Angron's primarch novel slave of Nuceria shows a moment were his touch is able to take away another persons pain and absorb it into himself. This ability seems to have been lost or forgotten about when he recieved the nails but implies to me the warhounds was to be more akin to healers than war makers. Like maybe they'd be a special apothercary heavy legion who were deployed to worlds blighted by disease and sickness and figure out how to cure them.
Cool, I like Warhammer but haven't seen any of your videos before . Here , take this sub
Good video, always liked the pre heresy world eater's
I’ve only just found your channel and I am loving these videos you’ve done the HH. These are so intestine and I love listening to them. Listening to these really make me want to have a go at the HH. These are great to work out which legion to focus on. Of course it will be a traitor one for me. Looking forward to your Death Guard video.
A fitting video on which to misspell interesting as "intestine."
@@stewroo 😂😂😂😂
Remember to add this one /and then/ the Ultramarines to your Heresy 101 playlist.
Angron and the World Eaters I find one of the most interesting primarchs/legions in the 30k setting
Yay!!! The legion I actually play! A grim look at the cycles of abuse and the legacy of violence writ large
The short story of Angron eventually assuming command of the world eaters is a really good basis to know the world eaters and their primarch.
"I have conquered entire civilizations that desired nothing more than to simply be left alone. I am ordered to demand tithes and tributes of soldiers from them and we call this liberation, because we're too afraid to call it what it is, slavery." - Angron
Please keep up on doing each legion. They are great.
When is 13 lucky? When it's the 13th chapter The ultramarines! Next up rowboat elf banger.
The Big-E wanted a pair of attack dogs, one a little wild, and one a dedicated guard/attack dog. Thus were Russ and Angron created.
Maybe.
WORD! Have been waiting for this.
Awesome job as always Ian. Can't wait for my Word Bearers!
Word bearers are coming up! So excited!
Always solid videos. Eagerly awaiting the last few
Bit off topic since Im talking about 40k not 30k but if the day ever comes for me to collect a second 40k army it's gonna be a world eater army for sure.
@@alfieingrouille1528 indeed, very exited to see that.
@@alfieingrouille1528 well I hope so for the sake of others, I personally don't care for it because I overall don't care much for named hero models in 40k in general.
Kinda for the same reason I don't have much care for rpg games that makes ya play a fixed, establish character.
I love how you've still got those candles going in the background - now that you've been using them a while have your opinions on them shifted at all?
I LOVE this series
hey Ian, i'm absolutely loving these videos as a new horus heresy fan. i'm wondering if you would consider doing one of these for the loyalist titan legio and traitor titan legio?
I've seen people try to shoot down the idea that Big E should have helped Angron fight the high riders. There seems to be much comparison to the fact that he helped Mortarion and all Morty did was resent him for it.
I wholeheartedly believe that in Angron's case it would have worked perfectly. Angron valued martial skill, honor and most of all *camaraderie* He would have seen Big E fighting in person to help his warrior brothers and sisters and a bond would have been forged.
I also believe that, as others have stated, Angron would have eventually led his own "heresy" against Big E. Even with the Nails eating his mind, Angron knew a tyrant when he saw one. Hehe, "saw one".
Love the Spartacus reference
I’m really enjoying these videos. It would be cool to have videos about all the legions currently.
I like Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim. I know it’s ironic but I see myself in both of these characters.
Should I turn myself into the authorities now or no?
Wearing a suitable shirt for the legion colors again :)!
Binging these! And I don't even play Horus Heresy, but my psyche does! XD
Man, Angron was *past* the point of no return after the Emperor nabbed him. Should have put a non-Primarch in charge at that pont..
I mean if the emperor was actually pragmatic about things and someone with actual compassion, he should've told Angron the truth and given him the option of carrying on or peacefully ending his life. Then emperor could do his bullshit and cloned Angron so he'd have a none Butcher's nail Angron, but when has then emperor ever actually cared about his tools
Angron: *dying with his comrades on Nuceria*
The Emperor: *kidnaps Angron* *sees Angron's dying comrades* "I'll ignore that"
another amazing video Ian!
are there plans to cover the custodes, mechanicus etc after this as well? Would be really interesting!
What books should I read to learn about the WEs role in the shadow crusade against ultramar? I'd like to know more about that as it sounds great for themeing my 30k WE army around
The Horus Heresy novel Betrayer is the best novel for that. It's supported by the novellas Slave of Nuceria and The Butchers Nails and it follows directly on from The First Heretic, which is the big Word Bearers novel. I'd go:
The First Heretic
Butchers Nails
BETRAYER
Slave of Nuceria
@@ArbitorIanI've read the first heretic, and I've got a copy of betrayer, guess I'll go find butchers nails and slaves.
Many thanks for the help
Angron is the only traitor Primarch I feel sorry for (Because I barely consider poor Magnus a traitor T_T)
Weirdly one of the most tragic Primarchs.
*Games Workshop* : We need deep Lore and interesting names for planets and people.
*Also Games Workshop* : We will fkn name him Angron and you cant stop me.
I love the shirt
Siggestion:
Can you also do videos on the famous 40k Fanfictions, The Dornian and the Robouttian Heresy?
no mention of the night of wolves or the war hound purists rebellion?
One of the biggest mistakes in Heresy era artwork that seems to consistently missed is the presence of the 40k era armoured prows. These were not brought into service until millenia after the Heresy, yet the anachronistic use of them in Heresy artwork continues.
People would rightfully point out the mistake of other 40k era equipment in Heresy art, I imagine this is simply a case of lack of awareness amongst the fanbase and more importantly the artists.
Loads of official art of Gloriana-class battleships have armoured prows.
@@ArbitorIan Fair enough, although the Glorianas varied in design massively and are very much a special case. Armoured prows apparantly didn't become more widespread until well after the Heresy so my point stands, a lot of Heresy era artwork is incorrect (I'm going off the BFG rulebook here so please correct me if it's since been retconned).
I wonder why the Emperor didn’t erase Angron like the other two? Make you question what the other two primarchs did to warrant such an act.
Thank you.
In Angrons tale the Emperor trully is the Vilian.
It's almost as if giving your sons free reign to be complete psychopaths doesn't turn out well... Who could have expected this?
Cairn not karn?
Never heard it said as 'Cairn' before, it's 'Kharn as in Carn' in all official stuff. Just ArbitorIan stuff. 🤷🏻♂️
I was always skeptical that the emperor tried his best to fix angron and remove the nails. When your goal is a peaceful universe and one of your killing machines has a built in kill switch why fix it
Besides removing the nails would kill him.
When it’s killing them, I figure that would be a good reason.
The story of Angron, or another example of why the Emperor really was kinda awful.
probably the most tragic Primarch, was he supposed to be empathetic and probably a guardian of sorts kind fo like Vulkan ? Instead he is the angry man Angrron, who angry angers
It is a tale of tragedy, Angron was truly empathetic, but twisted by the nails and his situation. Had he arrived on a planet similar to horus, he would have led the loyalist, not sanguinius or girlyman.
Mass infantry assault? Their early tactics kind of sound similar to the Lunar Wolves. Those fought at the very front of th unification wars though and weren't held in reserve.
12:28 I know I'm being "that guy" but didn't they land on Istvan III after the virus bombs and the resulting inferno?