Given the development of the game and the erosion of the formation, would be cool to see a JJ analysis of how Leicester won the league with the old 4-4-2
Baumgart's FC Koln. They play with 2 target man type strikers in Modeste and Andersson. Mark Uth is a good crosser from wide but isn't the quickest. Florian Kainz who is wide on the right is also good technically and a decent crosser. Benno Schmitz,the RB,is the key creative cog though with excellent delivery. The heartbeat of the team is Skhiri,a true 2 way Midfielder. They have been really good to watch and gave both Bayern and Leverkusen a game. Hoffenheim annihilated them but aside from that they keep the ball well and play on the front foot. That defence though🥶 probably the worst in the league. Czichos is a defender who doesn't know how to defend.
Leicester 15/16 was the perfect example of how to maximise the 442 strengths and minimise the weaknesses in the modern era. Narrow laterally and vertically, flexible switching between a 4-4-1-1 (Okazaki dropping off) or Diamond/4-1-3-2 (Kante aggressively pressing the ball carrier ahead of Drinkwater) to help combat different systems, and Mahrez/Vardy providing different types of options on the counter (vardy off the ball, and Mahrez on the ball) Was an absolute joy to watch, one of my favourite sides ever in the premier league.
Yes, and if you want your wingers to cover the FB position, you are wasting the wingers attacking ability. Basically, there’s no point of having wingers. You might as well have wingbacks in a back 3.
It's just a matter of discipline and communication. In 4-4-2 it's very important for the wingers to track back, but when the fullback pushes the adjustment in shape usually involves the remaining 3 defenders shifting over and one of the central midfielders staying back.
For me it was Jose Mourinho's Chelsea that ended the 4-4-2 in the Premier League. Most teams were still playing it in the mid 2000's but when they saw how outnumbered they could be in midfield, even managers who'd had great success with 4-4-2, like Alex Ferguson, made the switch to a 3-man midfield.
I remember reading an article about SAF. It says SAF copied the formation of successful teams, and with good management and right players he got better results than the others. And it also mentioned the things with Chelsea exactly like you said.
@@super_organist I don't think he's doing that at the moment, but I'm pretty sure there was a period in every season when Liverpool under Klopp defended in a 4-4-2. Actually, if I remember correctly when Elliot was fit Mane often tucked into the LM and the midfield 3 shifted so that Harvey played RM.
@@super_organist only really set up like that for the second half of that season. With a more dedicated defensive midfielder the defensive shape changed
I occasionally use the 4-4-2 but with a shadow striker or false 9 so more a 4-4-1-1. I remember in FIFA 2005 both Australia and England were setup as a 4-4-2. Two-man striker teams of Viduka & Kewell and Rooney & Owen respectively. Those pairings were deadly.
Italy under Marcello Lippi won the 2006 FIFA World Cup mostly using a 4-4-1-1 with Pirlo as a regista and Gattuso anchoring the midfield while Totti occupied a false 9 playmaker role and generally Luca Toni was the more traditional striker up top.
whenever i play games like FIFA or Football Manager i always use 4-4-2 but have the LB and RB in wingback positions. Went invincible one season with it
I remember when i was a kid, i used to play this formation with Man Utd... Dont ask me about how these players came to United.. im the manager .. haha Casillas Nesta. Bordon. Dani alves. Roberto carlos Gerrard. Essien Kaka. C.Ronaldo Vineeth 😛. Rooney
I miss watching teams play 4-4-2, used to see it a lot in the Premier League but you rarely see it nowadays. That's one of the reasons I like watching Atletico Madrid these days, they use 4-4-2 to great effect
One of my favourite FM formations is a 4-4-2 with inverted wing back and a striker who drops deeper like a false nine. You still get that width with conventional wingers (even though they are pretty rare nowadays), but pretty sturdy midfield when in possession.
442 and 424, when used right, and the right players are used, is the strongest shape all-round in Football Manager. Nothing else comes close. It doesn't matter if you are Man City or Macclesfield, it will work just as well. Some things should be borne in mind: Man Marking. You have to get really good at figuring out how to man-mark the other team's players, especially when your midfield is outnumbered, and you need to be able to be good enough that you know what to do no matter how the other team lines up. Going forward, pace is key. Going backwards, organization, marking and concentration is key. Your shouts from the sideline are key. 442/424 is about defending deep, getting the ball forward quickly, turning the opposition defence and getting in behind them before they can stop you. Therefore, endlessly fannying about in midfield with your Very Short Passing and your 'Work It Into The Box' is not impressing anyone, and unless you have a team full of Lionel Messis, will break down the first time you play in a British winter on a pitch that's been all cut up by the snow and ice.
I used a 3-2-3-2 wing backs in my first season with Villarreal (my longtime preferred formation), and finished 3rd. Well for this season, I wanted 3 things. 1. More midfield dominance. 2. More aggression and penning in of the opponents in their own half. 3. Remain defensively solid when the opponent penetrates our first line of defence. I’ve been using a 3-5-1-1. Sweeper keeper, 3 ball-playing defenders, 2 wide midfielders, 3 ball winning midfielders, 1 shadow striker and 1 target man. We’ve been dominant for the first 9 games. 8 wins, 1 draw, 0 losses, scored 19, conceded 3. Lots of possession, high pass completion, dominating action zones and conceding very few shots. We play a fast tempo, short passing game with a high block, aggressive pressing and hard tackling. Really enjoying the stats I’m seeing. Not 4-4-2 related, of course, but I thought I’d share if someone wanted to try it to see if they get along well with it.
Sincere question: Didn't the US use a 442 to beat Spain in 2009? If so, I'd love to see a breakdown in how Bob Bradley used it so efficiently that day.
442 and its variations are very popular for national teams as it's simple and can be implemented during the short time national teams have. Even Spain used a variation of 442 very often, specifically a narrow version with an attacking, defensive and two central midfielders because they had so much talent in the centre of the pitch.
I do not remember how exactly the game played out in terms of possession and all but it can be effectively used when mainly counter attacking as having two strikers to working together up front to play off can be enough to score vs more common sole man up front these days when parking the bus that will likely not yield much especially against good defenders. Also as Domen Bremec mentions, it is more popular with national teams as everyone basically knows how to play it. The formation when coached correctly can be very fluid and flexible with the right discipline to mitigate the deficits (example, when I played a 442 if a side midfielder surged forward the rest of the mids would shift to create something closer to a 433, or one cm would step a bit more forward than the other to create a tandem akin to CAM and CDM to create triangles and defensive solidity depending on the situation)
The Leicester team that won the league mostly deployed as a 442 but obviously Albrighton was the "midfielder" as the opposite side Mahrez was more of a "winger" but in principal it was a 4-4-2 with Vardy + Okazaki or Ulloa
@@sagnasswe2114 it's great for a team that does not want to have the ball and turbo forward like vardy, he will run every long ball even if he get a heart attack.
This is still one of the best formations to use in most levels. He mentions the weakness in the midfield with only 2 central players as opposed to 3. But you forget about the 2 outside mids. So its really a 4 mid vs 3 and you can easily exploit that 3 central mids by stretching them out with the outside mids. You can also push up the outside backs to give more offensive output. So in theory, your attacking shape looks more like a 2-4-4.
It hasn't fallen out of favour with me in Football Manager, that away and 424 at home. Once you've got the right players in, there's no stronger shape, I don't care who you are, from Barrow to Barcelona, it will dominate.
I'm a Liverpool fan so I generally gravitate towards (and hear the most about) a 4-3-3. I was watching the video thinking, oh, getting the fullbacks up in a 4-4-2, thats cool. You'd probably have to drop a midfielder back then though for cover. If you have the fullbacks go up you probably want your left and right midfielders to tuck in leaving room for the overlap and create a passing triangle with the strikers. Cool. Then I thought oh if I'm pulling them in, I might as well push up the other centre mid to attack the box seen as he'll have cover. I realized at this point I'd basically created a 4-4-2 with a diamond in midfield. Then I realized with the way Firmino plays arriving late like the 10 I'd just gone all the way round to Liverpool's 4-4-3 again 🤦
To be fair, unless we are talking about really exotic formations then pretty much all shapes in football can be made by just shuffling around 1 or 2 players. The individual roles and tasks of each player are far more important. Many modern coaches don't like talking about formations as numbers because that rarely matters to them.
@@ralfrudi3963 Yeah exactly! I love it, tactics are like an art, it's impossible to summarize them and formations are just a shorthand to do so. It was more just my brain showing my internal bias towards the team I support amusing me.
Currently doing a version of 442 with Arsenal on fm. Won the league with 433 but the team forgot to play football during the second season. Just reverted back to a simple 442 and saved the season with a top4 season.
United should use 442. Wan bissaka,Varane,lindelof and Shaw/telles. At cm VDB and Fred, lm rashford, RM Sancho and Bruno as second striker and cr7 as the main striker
That would be one of the greatest attacking squad if not the greatest in Europe but defensively they would get exposed. The midfielders being deployed have no sense for defending and Fred is too poor to play consistently
I was surprised not to hear about the two upfront, those were an important part for many teams, with one of them being strong tall and imposing, long balls from defence or fullbacks were laid down by the target man to the other striker to dribble finish or just make play, meaning much faster transition. Also the big guy usually held the ball up when needed. For me this was one of the main reasons 4-4-2 was famous, much faster transition
I believe this system can stilk work. Having the full backs invert gives freedom to both cm to push up. This creates passing lanes for the strikers to outnumber the defenders providing that you set you wingers to stay wide and drag defenders away from thier defensive position. Defensivley you can have you full backs pull back from inverting to the central midfield back into their defensive wing positions with help from the wingers. This formation is still solid. Just need the right players to pull it of.
indeed... 4-4-2 formation require a very well rounded central midfielder and pacy winger... and don't forget, discipline fullback and Central defender... and also natural/competent passer Central Forward... in all my years playing fm 4-4-2 is my only formation... of course it need discipline and balanced mentality... a bit deep defence and never ever rely on offside trap... never mark the fastest forward... your central defender should be free... don't let them mark anybody... and stay back... with a bit of a witdh, bit direct ball , bit fast tempo... start from the back, and... this is a bit of a twist... focus on center... and let your winger / full back decide what they are going to do in final 3rd of opponet half... and this formation really rely on box to box midfeielder / central midfielder / mezalla ... because of their abilty to shoot outside the box... and in my experience... player in that position will always come as the most the develope player in fm (well... last i played fm is fm19) if u use that exact tactic...
That's the case with most teams that play in a 4-4-2. You rarely see the two strikers on the same line. One is usually more of a classic centre forward while the other is more of a deep-lying forward who drops deeper to collect the ball. As was the case with Bergkamp at Arsenal, Griezmann at Atletico, or Rooney at Man.United. And those were all forwards, not midfielders, even if they didn't play on the same line as the other striker. Hence why it's also accurate to call it a 4-4-2.
Even Burnley tend to drop one striker deeper than the other on the defense, but they alternate. Which ever striker is on the same side as the ball tends to be further forward while the other striker drops back with the aim of supporting the striker who is furthest forwards at that time. Goal being that they can ping a long ball quickly up to the forward striker upon winning possession back and have the other striker coming in to potentially receiving a lay-off or cushioned header.
Lille won the Ligue 1 just last season playing 4-4-2. André and Renato Sanches bossing the midfield, Burak Yilmaz and Jonathan David complimenting eachother well up front, they're a great example.
Love it if you did a special on this formation like you did with Milan’s 4-2-3-1. Maybe Sweden’s 4-4-2? Worked well so far..and I’m not biased at all 😉🇸🇪
The key characteristics of 442 under Ferguson: 2 world-class strikers who can dominate defenses and work off each other - as threats and creators. Eg take a target man who can hold up a long-ball then feed a speedster to break the off-side trap or else both work as strikers anywhere in the box as well as foils for the other striker to then shoot for goal. WIth that said, there's a reason it's no longer optimal in general: Because all roles in football keep evolving towards taking on more active contribution across more areas. In 442, ManU had top defenders Stam, Ferdinand etc who again could bully strikers and stop goals effectively. A big moan of old-style pundits from EPL is "Defenders an pass better these days but they're not doing the basics of defense". That's a bit of bias there because more defenders are hybrids: Eg Reece James is a wing who also is a left-defender (of the attacker's pov). Liverpool's Right-Back is an assist-machine and distributor for speedsters up front (along with VVD). Equally strikers are also goal-scorers, pressers, creatives to each other merging the AM into their roles. These are all much more efficient uses of those positions for the overall team.
Maybe 3-1-4-1-1 while in possession could work to help alleviate pressure in the middle and make more of a "chain" for progress with the ball, with a more standard 4-4-2 when out of possession.
If only we had wingers who could cross the ball now. Hojulund is starved but if garnacho and amad could adapt to this system you could play rashford as the second striker. Mainoo and ugarte/Neves in midfield. Drop bruno
4:43 this is exactly why amateur teams should shy away from the 4-4-2. Even though its a really simple formation, it really does require more discipline from the midfielders. Last season, our biggest complaint was that we had often had gaps in the midfield. Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond could be better, but that'd require more discipline from the backs. Or 4-2-3-1 Although i do prefer them going over the wings than trough the middle, since forcing the opponent to the wings would require them to walk longer distances,
With more knowledgable players formations can be a bit more fluid as ultimately you attack and defend as a team. Got to make use of the width and length of the pitch to stretch the opposition or make them break you down. 442 will probably return over the next decade as other weaknesses get exploited in the more modern systems.
Tifo, please do Egil "Drillo" Olsen. He's heavily criticised for bringing primitive tactic yet effective for Norway National Football Team to rise in international competition
Well, how about 4-4-2 diamond? With double box-to-box between DM and AM, it can covers wing back area when facing counter attack, and provides solidity and creativity in the minddle. Sorry, I commented before the video over, lol
are you talking about the 4-1-2-1-2 like milan used during the early to mid 2000's with pirlo, gatuso, seedorf and kaka on a diamond? in the modern game this formation is easy to compress vertically due to the lack of width.. the fullbacks would get overrun in the halfspaces near the box and would have important attacking and defensive duties, that milan side had cafu on the right maldini, kaladze or jankulovski on the left (verry talented set of fullbacks and centre backs), part of the reason why it worked..
@@littlewing62 he meant 4-2-2-2 4 defenders rb, lb, rcb,lcb 2 cm, one defensive and the other box to box 2 cam that act like wingers and creative midfielders And 2 strikers
In the 80s, my primary school In Cornwall played a 2-3-5. We played a right (me) and a left back (my best friend), a centre mid, left mid and right mid, and then up front, a right and left wing, an inside left and inside right and centre forward. In the 3 years I played, we won most games 8-1 or 9-1, always allowing a consolation goal (teacher orders), and we only lost one game. I think this was the team that realised that we had no centre backs, and even then they only outscored us. Any chances on making a video highlighting the benefits of such a formation?
It must have been very exciting. However, most of school team follows the formation which is in fashion then. In my case, mid 2000’s our school team used 4-4-1-1, imiating that of Arsenal or Man u. In the 80s , was really English team(division 1, 2 or whatever) used 2-3-5? Or was it just an original tactic by school team?
In my opinion, I say a 4-4-2 is the easiest formation to play and if a player is not tactically disciplined for it, he is unlikely to be disciplined for any other formation. In Football Manager, I use it as a backup formation for when I play against a bus parking team or when my players are low on confidence.
Great video! Would like to hear more about your thoughts why more modern systems are less used in lower leagues. If, say 343, is superior to 442 why does club use 442 instead? I have some ideas e.g. there is a greater churn among clubs lower down so they need a simplier system players can quickly adapt to, or perhaps 343 requires more technically accomplished players for it to work. But I think love to see what TIFO make of it.
My FIFA CM teams usually are 442. I'd have one side with 2 wingbacks who can take turns making runs in behind, and the other side having a FB/CB hybrid that allows for a winger to free roam (it also allows for CBs to make occasional runs forward). 2 B2B midfielders who can track back but also make forward runs. And a ST/CF partnership, with one more of a target man and the other more mobile.
You're asking to get killed on counters with 2 wingbacks in a 4-4-2, specially with how superficial and basic player roles and instructions are on fifa.
i think pressing from opposition 433 is also a problem, the attacking 3 will press the two CDs and the gk and if the wing backs are high on field and no dm to drop the gk will be forced to play long balls
What I find most frustrating about 4-4-2 and most teams that use it is the lack of creativity that the system allows and how difficult is to break the line of pressure of the opposition.
Great teams didn't just stop using it for more midfielders, but to create three lanes of attack by inverting wingers. After inverting wingers and pushing 2 fullbacks up they make five lanes of attack rather than 4-4-2s maximum 2 in the attack line
Surely if its the most effective at covering space when defending, that's because the back line is narrower than the midfield line, forming triangles? If it forms triangles when defending, and when attacking the fullbacks and the wingers are typically more advanced than their counterparts, why would it ever suffer for lack of passing lines?
I feel like it is hard to play midfield 2 now at the higher end of the table and in europe, a lot of teams play midfield 3 and control possession or have high energy players that press and harass, so they either run circles around you or they shut down your midfield. I would argue that the style liverpool play with Firmino dropping deep has 4 midfielders.
I use 4-4-2 in my schalke 04 team Really defensive and a good counter attack Thats how i defeated bayern munich 1-0 in dfb pokal and dortmund 4-1 in the Bundesliga
I am sure there's more to it, but the shock Euro 2004 win of Greece under Otto Rehhagel seemed to make 4-4-2 unfashionable overnight. almost every team moved to a formation that bulked up the midfield and relied on a single strong striker.
TIFO should do a guide for each formation as a series, maybe the Christmas Tree could be released during the holiday season
Amen - great suggestion!
Agreed
Agreed
A guide to Christmas Tree on Dec 24th... YES Please
amazing idea, they could do tuchel's 5-2-3 or mourinho's 4231, or historical formations like the WM 3-3-4 formation
I'm now convinced that this football channel is partly an outlet to fullfill joe's childhood dream of being a singer.
I am still waiting a TifoVEVO channel appears
@@airynod someone uploaded joe's music on youtube that was origonally shared on myspace. Give it a try.
@@muhammadrifqi7308 got a link?
Given the development of the game and the erosion of the formation, would be cool to see a JJ analysis of how Leicester won the league with the old 4-4-2
they had Kante!
@@HarjasSingh0123 they were playing 4-5-2 in reality due to Kante counting as two players.
@@IncredibleMet exactly my point.
They arealdy did it. Look at the old videos.
Baumgart's FC Koln. They play with 2 target man type strikers in Modeste and Andersson. Mark Uth is a good crosser from wide but isn't the quickest. Florian Kainz who is wide on the right is also good technically and a decent crosser. Benno Schmitz,the RB,is the key creative cog though with excellent delivery. The heartbeat of the team is Skhiri,a true 2 way Midfielder. They have been really good to watch and gave both Bayern and Leverkusen a game. Hoffenheim annihilated them but aside from that they keep the ball well and play on the front foot. That defence though🥶 probably the worst in the league. Czichos is a defender who doesn't know how to defend.
Ljubicic is the key to success
@@brandizzler9152 ljubicic in the pivot is finished
Honest Koln fan.
Agree with the other comments: Please do a series where you go through the classic set-ups like 4-3-3, 5-3-2 and so on
Leicester 15/16 was the perfect example of how to maximise the 442 strengths and minimise the weaknesses in the modern era. Narrow laterally and vertically, flexible switching between a 4-4-1-1 (Okazaki dropping off) or Diamond/4-1-3-2 (Kante aggressively pressing the ball carrier ahead of Drinkwater) to help combat different systems, and Mahrez/Vardy providing different types of options on the counter (vardy off the ball, and Mahrez on the ball)
Was an absolute joy to watch, one of my favourite sides ever in the premier league.
Overlapping as a LB/RB in a 4-4-2 is fun until you realize your wingers didn’t cover behind and you suddenly have to track back all the distance
Yes, and if you want your wingers to cover the FB position, you are wasting the wingers attacking ability.
Basically, there’s no point of having wingers.
You might as well have wingbacks in a back 3.
Oh
@@alohatigers1199 plenty of point, easy wide overload creation being one, destroying man-marking being another.
It's just a matter of discipline and communication. In 4-4-2 it's very important for the wingers to track back, but when the fullback pushes the adjustment in shape usually involves the remaining 3 defenders shifting over and one of the central midfielders staying back.
😂😂😂
For me it was Jose Mourinho's Chelsea that ended the 4-4-2 in the Premier League. Most teams were still playing it in the mid 2000's but when they saw how outnumbered they could be in midfield, even managers who'd had great success with 4-4-2, like Alex Ferguson, made the switch to a 3-man midfield.
I remember reading an article about SAF. It says SAF copied the formation of successful teams, and with good management and right players he got better results than the others. And it also mentioned the things with Chelsea exactly like you said.
Give us an insight into Marcelo Bielsa's 3-3-3-1 formation
At the end of the 17/18 season Klopp used to defend in a 442,with Mané tucking into a left midfield position, while Salah moved more centrally
Does he still do that?
@@super_organist I don't think he's doing that at the moment, but I'm pretty sure there was a period in every season when Liverpool under Klopp defended in a 4-4-2. Actually, if I remember correctly when Elliot was fit Mane often tucked into the LM and the midfield 3 shifted so that Harvey played RM.
@@DomenBremecXCVI That's right.Nowadays even the 4 3 3 on paper often morphs into 352 , and 325
@@super_organist only really set up like that for the second half of that season. With a more dedicated defensive midfielder the defensive shape changed
I occasionally use the 4-4-2 but with a shadow striker or false 9 so more a 4-4-1-1. I remember in FIFA 2005 both Australia and England were setup as a 4-4-2. Two-man striker teams of Viduka & Kewell and Rooney & Owen respectively. Those pairings were deadly.
Italy under Marcello Lippi won the 2006 FIFA World Cup mostly using a 4-4-1-1 with Pirlo as a regista and Gattuso anchoring the midfield while Totti occupied a false 9 playmaker role and generally Luca Toni was the more traditional striker up top.
@@mistergray9664 I thought they won by diving…
Sorry that Aus v Ita game will forever haunt me as an Australian.😅
whenever i play games like FIFA or Football Manager i always use 4-4-2 but have the LB and RB in wingback positions. Went invincible one season with it
I remember when i was a kid, i used to play this formation with Man Utd...
Dont ask me about how these players came to United.. im the manager .. haha
Casillas
Nesta. Bordon.
Dani alves. Roberto carlos
Gerrard. Essien
Kaka. C.Ronaldo
Vineeth 😛. Rooney
@@vineethkumar6169 having gerrard feels illegal 😂
@@jeffreykolenchery1872 😂😂😂..
@@vineethkumar6169 I question your Gerrard
@@pyrotgr3204 im a fan of him.. great player... Evenif he played for our rivals liverpool... What a quality player he was
Is the Ragnick’s United XI coming soon?
Ronaldo about top né retired by the press
Probably
Ronaldo out, he can't press like ragnick wants.
I miss watching teams play 4-4-2, used to see it a lot in the Premier League but you rarely see it nowadays. That's one of the reasons I like watching Atletico Madrid these days, they use 4-4-2 to great effect
More of this please. Looking at 433, 4231, 352
This ^^
424 is count as sub 442?
I really want the 3331
One of my favourite FM formations is a 4-4-2 with inverted wing back and a striker who drops deeper like a false nine. You still get that width with conventional wingers (even though they are pretty rare nowadays), but pretty sturdy midfield when in possession.
I actually use 4-4-2 a lot in football manager and i have to say I have been fairly successful
How's the tactic?
442 and 424, when used right, and the right players are used, is the strongest shape all-round in Football Manager. Nothing else comes close. It doesn't matter if you are Man City or Macclesfield, it will work just as well.
Some things should be borne in mind: Man Marking. You have to get really good at figuring out how to man-mark the other team's players, especially when your midfield is outnumbered, and you need to be able to be good enough that you know what to do no matter how the other team lines up.
Going forward, pace is key.
Going backwards, organization, marking and concentration is key.
Your shouts from the sideline are key.
442/424 is about defending deep, getting the ball forward quickly, turning the opposition defence and getting in behind them before they can stop you.
Therefore, endlessly fannying about in midfield with your Very Short Passing and your 'Work It Into The Box' is not impressing anyone, and unless you have a team full of Lionel Messis, will break down the first time you play in a British winter on a pitch that's been all cut up by the snow and ice.
@@thegreathadoken6808 so if we have a midfielder with a good marking, it will work perfectly?
What player roles do you use?
I used a 3-2-3-2 wing backs in my first season with Villarreal (my longtime preferred formation), and finished 3rd. Well for this season, I wanted 3 things. 1. More midfield dominance. 2. More aggression and penning in of the opponents in their own half. 3. Remain defensively solid when the opponent penetrates our first line of defence. I’ve been using a 3-5-1-1. Sweeper keeper, 3 ball-playing defenders, 2 wide midfielders, 3 ball winning midfielders, 1 shadow striker and 1 target man. We’ve been dominant for the first 9 games. 8 wins, 1 draw, 0 losses, scored 19, conceded 3. Lots of possession, high pass completion, dominating action zones and conceding very few shots. We play a fast tempo, short passing game with a high block, aggressive pressing and hard tackling. Really enjoying the stats I’m seeing.
Not 4-4-2 related, of course, but I thought I’d share if someone wanted to try it to see if they get along well with it.
Sincere question: Didn't the US use a 442 to beat Spain in 2009? If so, I'd love to see a breakdown in how Bob Bradley used it so efficiently that day.
442 and its variations are very popular for national teams as it's simple and can be implemented during the short time national teams have. Even Spain used a variation of 442 very often, specifically a narrow version with an attacking, defensive and two central midfielders because they had so much talent in the centre of the pitch.
I do not remember how exactly the game played out in terms of possession and all but it can be effectively used when mainly counter attacking as having two strikers to working together up front to play off can be enough to score vs more common sole man up front these days when parking the bus that will likely not yield much especially against good defenders. Also as Domen Bremec mentions, it is more popular with national teams as everyone basically knows how to play it. The formation when coached correctly can be very fluid and flexible with the right discipline to mitigate the deficits (example, when I played a 442 if a side midfielder surged forward the rest of the mids would shift to create something closer to a 433, or one cm would step a bit more forward than the other to create a tandem akin to CAM and CDM to create triangles and defensive solidity depending on the situation)
The Leicester team that won the league mostly deployed as a 442 but obviously Albrighton was the "midfielder" as the opposite side Mahrez was more of a "winger" but in principal it was a 4-4-2 with Vardy + Okazaki or Ulloa
Last season Lille used the same formation in winning Ligue 1
@@sagnasswe2114 it's great for a team that does not want to have the ball and turbo forward like vardy, he will run every long ball even if he get a heart attack.
@@r3zaful well I think from this video what can be referred is that this is a very defensive setup with focus on hitting on the counter.
Thank you Tifo. That's amazing. Can you please do the 4-1-4-1 next? It's an underrated but flexible system.
I'm earlier than Ibrahim sangare, getting into a 4-4-2 lineup
This is still one of the best formations to use in most levels. He mentions the weakness in the midfield with only 2 central players as opposed to 3. But you forget about the 2 outside mids. So its really a 4 mid vs 3 and you can easily exploit that 3 central mids by stretching them out with the outside mids. You can also push up the outside backs to give more offensive output. So in theory, your attacking shape looks more like a 2-4-4.
It hasn't fallen out of favour with me in Football Manager, that away and 424 at home. Once you've got the right players in, there's no stronger shape, I don't care who you are, from Barrow to Barcelona, it will dominate.
Our jv coach wanted us to play 4-4-2, but we didn’t have enough true strikers so we ended up playing 4-4-1-1 😅
woah crazy man
Juvenile?
Probably meant Junior Varsity
Ok
Did you play for Juventus?
I'm a Liverpool fan so I generally gravitate towards (and hear the most about) a 4-3-3. I was watching the video thinking, oh, getting the fullbacks up in a 4-4-2, thats cool. You'd probably have to drop a midfielder back then though for cover.
If you have the fullbacks go up you probably want your left and right midfielders to tuck in leaving room for the overlap and create a passing triangle with the strikers. Cool.
Then I thought oh if I'm pulling them in, I might as well push up the other centre mid to attack the box seen as he'll have cover.
I realized at this point I'd basically created a 4-4-2 with a diamond in midfield. Then I realized with the way Firmino plays arriving late like the 10 I'd just gone all the way round to Liverpool's 4-4-3 again 🤦
To be fair, unless we are talking about really exotic formations then pretty much all shapes in football can be made by just shuffling around 1 or 2 players. The individual roles and tasks of each player are far more important. Many modern coaches don't like talking about formations as numbers because that rarely matters to them.
@@ralfrudi3963 Yeah exactly! I love it, tactics are like an art, it's impossible to summarize them and formations are just a shorthand to do so. It was more just my brain showing my internal bias towards the team I support amusing me.
Currently doing a version of 442 with Arsenal on fm. Won the league with 433 but the team forgot to play football during the second season. Just reverted back to a simple 442 and saved the season with a top4 season.
tifo's athletic promotion is reaching new levels every video😂😂
Tanks! I can now be a football manager in the late 90's/early 00's!
tifo I love your videos keeping do your what your doing
I would really like to see a video on Lionel Scaloni's transformation of Argentina's national squad and another one on River Plate's Julián Álvarez.
5:42 Tifo is teasing us with his new music.
In FM games, my success thanks to 4-4-1-1 with wingbacks + attack wingers
5:40 "DEAL OF THE YEAR!" - Lmao
Great piece xD
Best football channel in youtube
I love the natural progression of the Tifo jingle from catchy, goofy tune to borderline psychological warfare and barely subliminal messaging
Strengths is the longest word in English containing only one vowel.
United should use 442. Wan bissaka,Varane,lindelof and Shaw/telles. At cm VDB and Fred, lm rashford, RM Sancho and Bruno as second striker and cr7 as the main striker
@Rishabh Karthik what about defence?
@@shwetamathur8626 does Fred bring strong defensive qualities
That would be one of the greatest attacking squad if not the greatest in Europe but defensively they would get exposed. The midfielders being deployed have no sense for defending and Fred is too poor to play consistently
Thats how they played for ole tho 424 lol
@@atomiciky no but atleast he brings SOME defensive qualities as he is energetic and also makes interceptions sometimes unlike Pogba
I was surprised not to hear about the two upfront, those were an important part for many teams, with one of them being strong tall and imposing, long balls from defence or fullbacks were laid down by the target man to the other striker to dribble finish or just make play, meaning much faster transition. Also the big guy usually held the ball up when needed. For me this was one of the main reasons 4-4-2 was famous, much faster transition
Atletico doesn't run a 4-4-2 anymore. I know you said past seasons but to this day I fight against the Simeone park the bus stereotype
Pero és verdad.
Yea, I think tifo also done a video where this season atletico madrid didn't use 442 anymore
It's a fact that he parked the bus against Big teams, against Bayern in 2016 he pared the bus for the 180 Minutes.
I believe this system can stilk work. Having the full backs invert gives freedom to both cm to push up. This creates passing lanes for the strikers to outnumber the defenders providing that you set you wingers to stay wide and drag defenders away from thier defensive position. Defensivley you can have you full backs pull back from inverting to the central midfield back into their defensive wing positions with help from the wingers. This formation is still solid. Just need the right players to pull it of.
Still my favorite formation, in FIFA I usually use it because of it balance. It can be defensive and offensive at the same time when played right
I'm going to get the deal of the year.
indeed... 4-4-2 formation require a very well rounded central midfielder and pacy winger... and don't forget, discipline fullback and Central defender... and also natural/competent passer Central Forward... in all my years playing fm 4-4-2 is my only formation... of course it need discipline and balanced mentality... a bit deep defence and never ever rely on offside trap... never mark the fastest forward... your central defender should be free... don't let them mark anybody... and stay back... with a bit of a witdh, bit direct ball , bit fast tempo... start from the back, and... this is a bit of a twist... focus on center... and let your winger / full back decide what they are going to do in final 3rd of opponet half... and this formation really rely on box to box midfeielder / central midfielder / mezalla ... because of their abilty to shoot outside the box... and in my experience... player in that position will always come as the most the develope player in fm (well... last i played fm is fm19) if u use that exact tactic...
This one's great. Pls to analyse the 4-5-1, and how England's "Golden Generation" could've won trophies with it.
@@marinusdejager41 it does but not many runs it because lack of connectivity between the midfield and the front (which is when 4-4-1-1 comes in)
@@marinusdejager41 a literally 5 blokes in a straight line does exist but it’s very rarely used.
Manchester United 90's era. KINGS of the 4-4-2.
Your analysis of Lille 4-4-2 from last season was very good !
Wenger's 4-4-2 wasn't really a 4-4-2. It was 4-4-1-1 hybrid where Bergkamp drops down.
Come on, the difference is minimal. Sometimes even unintelligible.
umm its actually a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1
That's the case with most teams that play in a 4-4-2. You rarely see the two strikers on the same line. One is usually more of a classic centre forward while the other is more of a deep-lying forward who drops deeper to collect the ball. As was the case with Bergkamp at Arsenal, Griezmann at Atletico, or Rooney at Man.United. And those were all forwards, not midfielders, even if they didn't play on the same line as the other striker. Hence why it's also accurate to call it a 4-4-2.
Even Burnley tend to drop one striker deeper than the other on the defense, but they alternate. Which ever striker is on the same side as the ball tends to be further forward while the other striker drops back with the aim of supporting the striker who is furthest forwards at that time. Goal being that they can ping a long ball quickly up to the forward striker upon winning possession back and have the other striker coming in to potentially receiving a lay-off or cushioned header.
@@joeltarnabene5026 there is a big difference between a 4-4-2 and the 4-4-1-1
Every formation has it's time to dominate and it's time to left in obscurity
With the right players any formation can be used to lethal effect
@@d3m1g0d4 nah, I don't think a 2-3-5 would dominate nowadays lol
@@LMarcon11 because it's time is past
@@d3m1g0d4 you said any formation with the right players. It's just some friendly banter. peace
These songs man... Are total bangers!
Lille won the Ligue 1 just last season playing 4-4-2. André and Renato Sanches bossing the midfield, Burak Yilmaz and Jonathan David complimenting eachother well up front, they're a great example.
Was a 4-4-1-1
Those were the days.....Uniteds 4-4-2 under Fergie. Much better than our 9-1-0 formation against Chelsea yesterday 😆
United play a 4-4-1-1 under fergie
Enjoyed this series. @Tifo please do a video for the 4-2-3-1
Love it if you did a special on this formation like you did with Milan’s 4-2-3-1. Maybe Sweden’s 4-4-2? Worked well so far..and I’m not biased at all 😉🇸🇪
i was looking forward to buying a 4-4-2 on amazon...this video changed my mind
Like always the best content from TIFO
The last time i was this early, Arsenal used to be in ucl
Oof
The key characteristics of 442 under Ferguson:
2 world-class strikers who can dominate defenses and work off each other - as threats and creators. Eg take a target man who can hold up a long-ball then feed a speedster to break the off-side trap or else both work as strikers anywhere in the box as well as foils for the other striker to then shoot for goal.
WIth that said, there's a reason it's no longer optimal in general: Because all roles in football keep evolving towards taking on more active contribution across more areas. In 442, ManU had top defenders Stam, Ferdinand etc who again could bully strikers and stop goals effectively. A big moan of old-style pundits from EPL is "Defenders an pass better these days but they're not doing the basics of defense". That's a bit of bias there because more defenders are hybrids: Eg Reece James is a wing who also is a left-defender (of the attacker's pov). Liverpool's Right-Back is an assist-machine and distributor for speedsters up front (along with VVD).
Equally strikers are also goal-scorers, pressers, creatives to each other merging the AM into their roles.
These are all much more efficient uses of those positions for the overall team.
Ferguson never really use a 4-4-2 more of a 4-4-1-1
Maybe 3-1-4-1-1 while in possession could work to help alleviate pressure in the middle and make more of a "chain" for progress with the ball, with a more standard 4-4-2 when out of possession.
the man utd 4-4-2 with dwight york and andy cole was monstrous
If only we had wingers who could cross the ball now. Hojulund is starved but if garnacho and amad could adapt to this system you could play rashford as the second striker. Mainoo and ugarte/Neves in midfield. Drop bruno
Wish it was played more
4:43 this is exactly why amateur teams should shy away from the 4-4-2. Even though its a really simple formation, it really does require more discipline from the midfielders. Last season, our biggest complaint was that we had often had gaps in the midfield. Maybe a 4-4-2 diamond could be better, but that'd require more discipline from the backs. Or 4-2-3-1
Although i do prefer them going over the wings than trough the middle, since forcing the opponent to the wings would require them to walk longer distances,
With more knowledgable players formations can be a bit more fluid as ultimately you attack and defend as a team. Got to make use of the width and length of the pitch to stretch the opposition or make them break you down. 442 will probably return over the next decade as other weaknesses get exploited in the more modern systems.
Tifo, please do Egil "Drillo" Olsen. He's heavily criticised for bringing primitive tactic yet effective for Norway National Football Team to rise in international competition
Well, how about 4-4-2 diamond? With double box-to-box between DM and AM, it can covers wing back area when facing counter attack, and provides solidity and creativity in the minddle.
Sorry, I commented before the video over, lol
are you talking about the 4-1-2-1-2 like milan used during the early to mid 2000's with pirlo, gatuso, seedorf and kaka on a diamond?
in the modern game this formation is easy to compress vertically due to the lack of width.. the fullbacks would get overrun in the halfspaces near the box and would have important attacking and defensive duties, that milan side had cafu on the right maldini, kaladze or jankulovski on the left (verry talented set of fullbacks and centre backs), part of the reason why it worked..
@@littlewing62 he meant 4-2-2-2
4 defenders rb, lb, rcb,lcb
2 cm, one defensive and the other box to box
2 cam that act like wingers and creative midfielders
And 2 strikers
@@JacoboSnake he did mean 4-1-2-1-1 according his description of 2 Box to box between DM and AM
@@JacoboSnake 4-2-2-2 is a box in the middle of the park with two defensive midfielders and two advanced playmakers
In the 80s, my primary school In Cornwall played a 2-3-5. We played a right (me) and a left back (my best friend), a centre mid, left mid and right mid, and then up front, a right and left wing, an inside left and inside right and centre forward. In the 3 years I played, we won most games 8-1 or 9-1, always allowing a consolation goal (teacher orders), and we only lost one game. I think this was the team that realised that we had no centre backs, and even then they only outscored us.
Any chances on making a video highlighting the benefits of such a formation?
It must have been very exciting. However, most of school team follows the formation which is in fashion then. In my case, mid 2000’s our school team used 4-4-1-1, imiating that of Arsenal or Man u. In the 80s , was really
English team(division 1, 2 or whatever) used 2-3-5? Or was it just an original tactic by school team?
In my opinion, I say a 4-4-2 is the easiest formation to play and if a player is not tactically disciplined for it, he is unlikely to be disciplined for any other formation.
In Football Manager, I use it as a backup formation for when I play against a bus parking team or when my players are low on confidence.
You missed Carlo Ancelotti's diamond 4-4-2 he deployed at Chelsea with Anelka and Drogba up front. He also deployed it at AC Milan (iirc)
Loving the jingles!
Old school 😎
Only one man has mastered the 4-4-2 and that is Mike Bassett. Doesn't get the respect he deserves
Great video! Would like to hear more about your thoughts why more modern systems are less used in lower leagues. If, say 343, is superior to 442 why does club use 442 instead? I have some ideas e.g. there is a greater churn among clubs lower down so they need a simplier system players can quickly adapt to, or perhaps 343 requires more technically accomplished players for it to work. But I think love to see what TIFO make of it.
My FIFA CM teams usually are 442. I'd have one side with 2 wingbacks who can take turns making runs in behind, and the other side having a FB/CB hybrid that allows for a winger to free roam (it also allows for CBs to make occasional runs forward). 2 B2B midfielders who can track back but also make forward runs. And a ST/CF partnership, with one more of a target man and the other more mobile.
You're asking to get killed on counters with 2 wingbacks in a 4-4-2, specially with how superficial and basic player roles and instructions are on fifa.
Sean Dyche there's my guide.
Ahh, Sean Dyche's long ball 4-4-2 😁
That Deal of the Year song is underrated
Great job guys, do you have any subscriptions for this type of analysis?
Sweden uses the 4-4-2 really well
Now I can start my own team using this channel as a guide book🤣
i think pressing from opposition 433 is also a problem, the attacking 3 will press the two CDs and the gk and if the wing backs are high on field and no dm to drop the gk will be forced to play long balls
Pep Guardiola used it too with double false nine.
What I find most frustrating about 4-4-2 and most teams that use it is the lack of creativity that the system allows and how difficult is to break the line of pressure of the opposition.
Last time I was this early Man. United were still competitive
waiting for 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3
Make one on 4231
You made a video about what went wrong in la masia how about you make a video about its resurgence since we're so many talents from there
Great teams didn't just stop using it for more midfielders, but to create three lanes of attack by inverting wingers. After inverting wingers and pushing 2 fullbacks up they make five lanes of attack rather than 4-4-2s maximum 2 in the attack line
I love this Channel!
Can you do a guide to the W formation. Used by Sweden's National Team in the 1958 World Cup?
Thnx for this video
More videos like this please
TIFO please make a video about the back to back libertadores champions palmeiras
Surely if its the most effective at covering space when defending, that's because the back line is narrower than the midfield line, forming triangles? If it forms triangles when defending, and when attacking the fullbacks and the wingers are typically more advanced than their counterparts, why would it ever suffer for lack of passing lines?
I feel like it is hard to play midfield 2 now at the higher end of the table and in europe, a lot of teams play midfield 3 and control possession or have high energy players that press and harass, so they either run circles around you or they shut down your midfield. I would argue that the style liverpool play with Firmino dropping deep has 4 midfielders.
This deal is always available for TIFO and The Athletic 🧐 great advert tho 😎🎤🎶🎙
Seane dyce taking notes
Plot twist: Sean Dyche made the notes and Tifo used it to make this video
I use 4-4-2 in my schalke 04 team
Really defensive and a good counter attack
Thats how i defeated bayern munich 1-0 in dfb pokal and dortmund 4-1 in the Bundesliga
I am sure there's more to it, but the shock Euro 2004 win of Greece under Otto Rehhagel seemed to make 4-4-2 unfashionable overnight. almost every team moved to a formation that bulked up the midfield and relied on a single strong striker.
Still waiting for Tifo to make video on other formation like 352, 4321, 4231, 451, 3133
please a 532 my favourite formation
FC Porto under Sergio Conceição plays a 442 that sometimes its a 424.
Hey, can you do a video on the odd types of formations...like 3-6-1 ...