Karl Barth and Universalism
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- The question of whether Karl Barth's theology points in a universalist direction is explored by Marty Folsom, Douglas Campbell, and Andrew Torrance.
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It seems I made a mistake with the image appearing from 0:58 - 1:14 and it is not actually a picture of Karl Barth. Sorry about that!
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Hi Marty, I recall reading (gad, 5 years ago!) at the conclusion of George Hunsinger's essay "Hellfire and Damnation" a reference to Church Dogmatics in which Barth writes something like, "While I cannot support Universalism in the sense that all are saved, it is nonetheless the duty of every Christian to pray that it is so."
Barth is one of my most important influences, so I’m glad to see a video focusing on his side of the “universalism” argument. I too never say that I am a “universalist” or that I believe in “universalism”. I say that I believe in the total victory of God over sin and death. What does total victory look like for the very ground of being? Well, I would guess that it looks like all things being restored to Godself.
Excellent point! If we aren't limiting God then we shouldn't limit our understanding (s). God will in fact be ALL IN ALL!
thank you, I Hope and We Hope that Universalism o Universal Salvation is True and Correct , Because Infernalist or ECT Believers Are Against of Universalism and Universal salvation and Calls It Cult , We Pray to God Our Lord Jesus that Universal Salvation for All and that this Doctrine is True by the Power of the Holy Spirit
Church Dogmatics should be read slowly over time,it’s like scaling a mountain..I do believe if Bart completed the last part of his Dogmatics covering redemption,we would see a clear picture of Universalism in his thesis!
It really comes down to what you use as the "regulator" scriptures, the character of God texts (all knowing, all loving, all powerful) or the Lake of Fire texts. Most of Christianity uses the Lake of Fire texts as the regulator. They allow God's character to be diminished (i.e., He is subordinate to human "free will") by the LOF texts. I do the opposite--use the character texts as the regulator, and then interpret the LOF texts. Let every man be a liar but let God be true. Eternal life is to know the true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. John 17:3.
To know God is to love him.
Why is revelation 14:9-12 says tormented day and night forever and ever can you explained?
The Greek word that is used for torment is the same one used to test gold or other precious metals for their purity. So it's shown as a refinement process not a destructive one. And then also the words used forever and ever are aonios which means for an age or ages. Which means it's some expansive time but there is an end. It's usually the same word used as eon.
@@johnkristofftimbal5053 If God is not loving and torments his Children, I want nothing to do with that god! I wouldn't dare do that to my kids no matter what they did! and as a mortal father I can't be that mean to my kids then how could an all loving perfect Father do that? Jesus was the perfect representative of God the father, yet when they were hanging him on the cross he forgave them. what worst could you or I do!? I have full faith that God is good.
@@johnkristofftimbal5053 amen
@@deeveevideos traditional believer says that (aion) is eternal and eternity for there research for them hellfire is Eternal Eternity and I Hope and We Hope that Hell lake of fire is Not Eternity because God Is Love and Good it contradicts to His Nature for me even theres a scripture says eternal or Eternal Punishment in Hell But For me God is Good and Love and Mercyful His Character is EResistable and He Is Not Just Love and Mercy but He is The Source of Love and Mercy
@@johnkristofftimbal5053 amen
I don't believe in the freedom to choose theory. We didn't have a choice to come into this world, not to mention our eyes have scales over them in this world, we can't and don't know much of anything.
Apocalyptic Plastic Poetry
An extract from the Hymn on Paradise by
Bernard of Cluny:
"The world is very evil;
The times are waxing late;
Be sober and keep vigil,
The Judge is at the gate:
The Judge that comes in mercy,
The Judge that comes with might,
To terminate the evil,
And diadem the right."
This poem could apply to the Apostolic times of Saint James (the judge is at the door 5:9) and the end of that Age.
Unfortunately, it has been taken up by every generation since and the focus has been one of petty Apocalyptic schemes that has created a riot of thoughts concerning the approaching end of our world.
Since St. James' time of the ends (plural) of the age ie; the back end of the OT and front end of the NT, we've had a long list of failed and disappointing prognostications about the end time destruction of our world. Should we not learn to take a more positive stance on the developments in the world around us?
And perhaps be inspired by the idea that God as Creator and Redeemer is working out His Kingdom purpose in gathering into a unity all its varied strands through Jesus Christ our Lord.
In a moment of teachableness ,if we could,
I would postulate two things:
1 The Kingdom of God was inaugurated by the coming of Jesus and the end of the OT religious system and its economy
2 The Spirit of truth has been poured out and is still active in outworking all truth.
To see all the outworkings we should take a look at the developments of the various disciplines of revealed truth in our world.
For instance, the progress from A to Z in
Anthropology, Biology, Cosmology, Dermatology, Engineering, Floriculture, Gastroenterology, Hydroponics, Ichthyology, Jurisprudence, Kalololgy, Liquids, Mathematics, Neurology, Obstetrics, Pomology, Qanonology, Radiology, Sphygmology, Theology, Uni Blastology (study of having fun ha), Veterinarianolgy, Wordsmithing, Xbox, Yoga, and last but not least Zen Buddhism just to name a few.
Even now (2023) we are on the cusp of developing outer/lower space. How wonderful the potential of that could be! But it needs churchmen to influence it away from evil.
The list goes on and on but it does allow ,if we will, a greater and more practical view of our world as we find it today.
It is the amazing fact that all this development and progress has taken place in the midst of suffering, disease, famine and war ect.
But once you realize the similarity to what happened at Calvary (Power through weakness, ultimate triumph over evil in the midst of suffering) you might want to consider an enlarged view of the Gospel of His Kingdom and its developments in this our "world without end".
The true church and its real disciples are always struggling to adjust to the activity of its neighbors in the world and take a stand in relation to them.
If we have eyes to see and ears to hear we would come to understand that this is the pattern we have inherited from our forefathers in the faith. And that "the faith bequeath to us is as metal tempered in the fire and just because the fire heats up again it does not mean that the metal melts away".
It is in the midst of troublesome times like our present situation that the church and its disciples have come to understand their greater purpose and ,in so doing, find great victories and triumphs in the betterment of our world.
Thereby giving glory to God through our Savior Jesus Christ.
Isn't this a better approach than all the sowing of discord, bickering and lashing out that goes on in the name of defending the faith.
COME ON MAN!
As far as I can see, the Mantel of "Defender of the Faith" is now lying in the gutter waiting to be taken up. Who will pick it up depends on being commissioned with the capacity of a titanic personage in service to the operation of divine Wisdom.
A prickly vocation I'm sure.
What happened at Calvary? The Christian god consummating his 'holy passion' for suffering.
United Church of God is not universalist per se, but they do teach universal post mortem opportunity for all mankind.
God's will is inevitable regardless of how much of himself he pours out. He works his will through us, each of us. Every what if will be played. Just my view.
All that pederasty in 'the church' for example.
Thanks for your reply.
Loved the book different ways of reading the scriptures.
The full Apostolic witness is still around.
Enjoy
The Glory of the Cross poem
See him there at Calvary dressed out in full array
The penalty for sinners Gods justice on display
The slaughtered lamb now speaking, His soul is open wide
I'm smitten and forsaken, My God My God Oh Why!
A mocking crowd comes tempting, with wagging heads allied
A crown of thorns they gave him, set hard above his eye
Yet some in sore amazement, let out a desperate cry!
'Tis Jesus friend of sinners, My God My God Oh Why
Then the earth began to tremble and the sun now shut its eyes
Lest sin should reign eternal, the cursed of God must die
With troubled hearts we see him, but faithful we must be
This blessed act of mercy , t'was My God My God for me!
His sheep had all been scattered, alone and all undone
His Fathers heart now grieving, they'd soon have aid to come
His work was now accomplished, the trembling cup lay bare
Sins darkness now upon Him, as he hung in great despair
Before the day was finished, His parched lips would rehearse
The only words befitting, My God My God I Thirst
Through smitten, bruised, abandoned, faith eye would let him see
In three days he would be risen, with the keys of victory
At the dawning of the morning on the first day of the week
He left the grave behind him, now gone to tend his sheep
He spoke with his disciples, at a dinner by the sea
Three times he asked one question, Peter lovest me?
The Righteous King Eternal, t'was this man from Galilee
By faith, you can receive him and live life full and free
All nations now are groaning, while silent hearts just cry
A broken heart of sorrows, O' our God will not deny
Return thy tears of sorrow, to the One who died for thee
No! You have not been forsaken, just but look to Calvary
JS 2014
The opening minutes of this ramble show how *useless* Barth and that sophistry/tautology called 'theology' are.
@Oskar God's Love being sophistry/tautology.
@Oskar But 'God's Love' isn't reality and when 'lived' is indoctrination. 'Theologians' are pretty much windbag men and narcissistic women. Isn't the Jesus idol 'word made flesh' a boxed-shadow? Plus the whole blackwhite/doublethink religion hinges on 'signifiers' as signified.
You cannot claim Christ and go around calling people “useless”. That is the opposite of Him. He came to reveal worth and value in all of humanity and to restore our broken identities.
@@josiahhodge3712 🤣
@@josiahhodge3712 I don't claim your superhero 'Christ'. You believe Blackwhite and Doublethink.