Is Hell Separation From God? - Wm. Paul Young
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Wm. Paul Young, author of "Lies We Believe About God," describes many of the issues he sees in the concept of a hell of everlasting torment.
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"We have literalized scripture and ignored the Word of God." ~~~Wm. Paul Young
Oh, my word...this makes my thinking so much clearer. I have never accepted Eternal Torment, thank you, Paul!
So grateful for the scriptures and the logic. He is the Logos! Thank you.
Believing in eternal hell says more about what is in our heart, and our fear of punishment (or our desire others have it) then what is in the heart of Love. 1 John 4 makes it clear. Those who fear are in fear because they believe in torment. And until that is removed from them they do not know Gods love.
Your 'god's love' being torment.
Very powerful statement!
@@williamoarlock8634Deluded.
@@eekay5710 Pot calling the kettle black.
You are wrong!! He'll is a place of never-ending torture and suffering, don't wait until you arrived to believe it!
In Lamentations 3:31, God said that he would not cast off anyone forever, and in 2nd Samuel 14:14 God devizes ways that people will not be banished from him, just those two verses seem to make it plain enough, but if it's not enough, Isaiah 25.8, this is a prophecy of what Jesus would come to do, he will swallow up death in victory and wipe away tears from All faces!!
Thankyou so much! That was extremely helpful as after 20 years of being a Christian my mind is starting to open up to other possibilities! I agree with all you are saying!
Spot on brother
The Gospel of Truth says that, " It was amazing: they were within the Father while not recognising Him..." God brings knowledge. Hell is being in forgetfulness of God.
We need FACT. Not 'truth' composed of sophistry.
@@williamoarlock8634 What do you mean William? What facts are you looking for?
@@DIBBY40 Objective ones.
@@williamoarlock8634The only objectíve is God. You can ask Hím to prove you. Everything, answer comes from the connection with Hím. He can not be avoided and it is good 4 us! 🙏
@@csgabriella5658 Yes, I know your pre-Ayn Rand objectivist god that is totally self-seeking 'love' which is exclusive to whited sepulchre churches, graven imagery scriptures and believers egos is no good 4 me and many, many others!
Paul, this is great. I agree and am so blessed by you. God has been teaching me so much on this subject, and it is not what I used to believe. Great job.
This is exactly why I was an agnostic for like 10-11 years. None of the teachings I'd been taught up to that point made any sense, as William Paul Young here points out very well.
I agree 100%. I came from the traditional background believing in Hell but, when I took the time to do a focused study and discovered that the word “Hell” is not found in any of the original languages I had to change my mind. Hell had to had come from the Greek influence seeing how Hades is a Greek God of the underworld and Tartarus is another Greek Godlike creature. The word Jesus used “Gehinnom” is a physical location where they did Human sacrifice of babies 1,000 years before, and Jesus used Gehinnom because His audience knew their history. These 3 words cover all the words used to translate into Hell as eternal, conscience torment and could not possibly be accurate. The last world, “Sheol” is the Hebrew OT world which simple means, The Grave or pit where all go after death…… the righteous and the unrighteous….
Although the word "hell" appears in the Bible, it only was brought in during the time churches decided to have more control over people (fear;💰). That was the perception of many in those day, but the word 'hell' is definitely translated wrong.
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The next paragraph is by DA Taylor from his book EXECUTED to suppress His message:
Hell is a false doctrine.
The doctrine of hell was created by the Catholic Church to scare people into becoming Christians. And the doctrine worked so well, that most Protestant churches added it to their list of doctrines.
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The most common words that are used, are the Hebrew word Sheol & the Greek word Gehenna, Tartaro & Hades. Sometimes Abussos are also used as ref to 'hell'.
SHEOL - this word is mostly used in the OT where 'hell' could be interpretated, but it is only refers to the 'place' where everybody who dies, go. Temporary, only where the bodies were put in 'rest', nót a place of eternal punishment of any negative scare thought. We can also call this place the grave.
People of faith in the Old Test like king David (Ps 49:16 and 88:4), Jacob/Israel (Gen 37:35) and Hiskia (Jes 38:10) knew they were going to this 'place of rest', the grave). Súrely these 3 men never would ended up in the so-called' hell' as we have it in our thoughts!
HADES simply means 'not to see'. Spiritual blindness. Jesus in John 9 to the Pharisees & the man born blind.
The word hell is actually pagan. Helheim or Hel was the opposite place of Valhall.
Its an old Norse myth. And I think that there was a similar kind of religion in old Germany. Germanic.
I think that the word hell first did show up in christianity in the fifth century. Christianity stole the thing like they have done with so many other things.
Hebrew “sheol” means grave. Greek “hades” means grave. Wages for sin is death not eternal conscious torment in God’s firery torture chamber.
It's very unfortunate that you are deceived by this doctrine. Very few Christians are truly aware of the fact that witches are working within these churches in order to sway them a different way spiritually, and after the spirits deceive them and they are fully convinced of this doctrine, they began to teach it to others. Most of you don't realize that witches are using people to deceive them with a false doctrine, and that all of these people need demons cast out of them. I have never ever known of a universalist who went to a church to have demons cast out and didn't have some cast out, and who didn't then see the truth of the Gospel.
I've seen several universalists go for Deliverance to have demons cast out, and after their delivering stay no longer believe the way they used to, and this is simply because they were under demonic influence and didn't realize it until after their Deliverance.
This doctrine is satanic in nature, and I would even go as far as saying that most who believe this doctrine don't really understand what's going on in the world at all. Most of you believe what you're told on TV, but the media lies to everyone. People or even aware that they are performing satanic rituals in public live on TV every year, that there are non-humans living amongst us everywhere who are either robotoids, (this world of course mean that it is human DNA spliced with robotic DNA), or "alien" hybrids. "Aliens" are in fact demons, but most persons don't have discernment to realize that they're conditioning them through the television set to accept these things coming into this world, and also deceiving people into believing they live on a spinning planet.
Amen
Yeah. And didnt God tell Adam and Eve that if they ate of that special fruit they will die?
He didnt say that they will be tormented for eternity.
Greek hades does not mean grave LOL
@@grimlund Exactly. Adam & Eve were made to live eternally but were not immortal in nature. Once they ate of the fruit, they activated their immortality (some believe they were immortal but lost it when they ate it).
Wonderfully put, Mr William Paul Young! Thank you so much from Germany!
PS: It really appears as if the history of the famous "Sinner´s Prayer" had originated from humans being unredeemed & angry at themselves leading them to all sorts of vile ideas like an everlasting and most cruel fiery torture chamber. It´s no wonder that some manuscripts witness Jesus asking the mind of disciples brave enough to pray for fire falling from sky to destroy people refusing to meet him (Luke 9:55) - Οὐκ οἰδατε οἵου πνεύματός ἐστε ὑμεῖς· = You do not know of what spirit you are!
My son completely quit being a Christian when he studied to be a Special Education Teacher, and had worked with MR/DD adults. He said they cannot understand this gospel, so he thought it was a very unfair God. He went so far as to throw the baby Jesus out with the bathwater, and to this day he is a secular humanist.
Baby Jesus deserves throwing out.
Although the word "hell" appears in the Bible, it only was brought in during the time churches decided to have more control over people (fear;💰). That was the perception of many in those day, but the word 'hell' is definitely translated wrong.
---
The next paragraph is by DA Taylor from his book EXECUTED to suppress His message:
Hell is a false doctrine.
The doctrine of hell was created by the Catholic Church to scare people into becoming Christians. And the doctrine worked so well, that most Protestant churches added it to their list of doctrines.
---
The most common words that are used, are the Hebrew word Sheol & the Greek word Gehenna, Tartaro & Hades. Sometimes Abussos are also used as ref to 'hell'.
SHEOL - this word is mostly used in the OT where 'hell' could be interpretated, but it is only refers to the 'place' where everybody who dies, go. Temporary, only where the bodies were put in 'rest', nót a place of eternal punishment of any negative scare thought. We can also call this place the grave.
People of faith in the Old Test like king David (Ps 49:16 and 88:4), Jacob/Israel (Gen 37:35) and Hiskia (Jes 38:10) knew they were going to this 'place of rest', the grave). Súrely these 3 men never would ended up in the so-called' hell' as we have it in our thoughts!
HADES simply means 'not to see'. Spiritual blindness. Jesus in John 9 to the Pharisees & the man born blind.
@@williamoarlock8634Baby Jesus for 2,000+ yrs already is no longer "baby Jesus", but the Christ.. and this Christ is ríght inside of you whether you believe this eternal or not. Btw, your believe towards "baby Jesus" will for all of eternity never undo what He has accomplished fór and ín us!
@@eekay5710 The same way you 'know' the universe is less than six millennia old 🙄
Sorry to hear.
I believe the O.T. defines man and mans beliefs about God and The New Testament defines God through Christ, in other words, The Truth that sets man free!!!!!!
What a difference it makes when you read Bibles that are translated from the Hebrew and Greek ( Young’s Literal Translation, Rotherham Emphasized Bible), compared to the English translations that came from Latin translations. It gives you clarity and the true meanings of certain words. It also reveals the Augustine agenda influence that created fear and control. For example; Matthew 25:41 these shall go away into age-abiding correction (Rotherham)
Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire.(kjv).
Good Bibles, I own hard copies of both
What about NDE's many talk about seeing hell, and demons.
I am convinced that the bible teaches Eternal Annihilation or Annihilation the Total Detruction of unsaved in the sense that they will Never be existed or ceased to exist. Thats Biblical, Bible Teaches that Immortality and Eternal living is Given to those who believe only and Believe in the Finish work of Jesus Christ through His Death, Burial and Ressurection
Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of believers! Oh wait…that’s not it. Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the WORLD! There it is
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV
All will be reconciled
@@laylascott6096 God Bless you sister My Stand is for Apocatastasis Universalism or Annihilationism
@@johnkristofftimbal5053 perhaps I have misunderstood what you have written here dear one. Are you saying Apocatastasis Universalism is the same as Annihilationism?
@johnkristofftimbal5053 why do you think the Bible teaches annihilation? Where are you getting that? I find that just as horrible as the idea of God saving the elect and damning the rest to hell.
Very well explained ! What about the so called unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the holy spirit however ?
All the best points!
There's so much here that I agree with, but also some that I find frustrating. He seems to be equating eternal conscious torment with externally imposed punishment. While there certainly have been views like that, I would argue that the earliest Christians believed in ECT, but believed it was a result of how our sin had shaped us, not something imposed by God.
The just started reading 'Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of Christian Church During It's First Five Hundred Years' by John W. Hanson. It's highly recommended by Robin Parry aka Gregory MacDonald...
@@jhq9064 hopefully I can check that out in the future. I've heard the claim made many times, but have not yet seen convincing evidence (and have seen plenty of counter evidence). Certainly there were some key figures, particularly from Alexandria, that did affirm it, but they were still a minority and few generations removed from the apostles, to my understanding.
...thanks for this. there's way too much content for me to respond to in particular, but i really appreciate it.
Thank you ❤️
I saw NIV version in luke 9:56 the verse is remove but the version of Tyndale , Geneva and KJV is complete ,
Luke 9:56
[56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy mens lives, but to save them. Then they went to another town.
It was all those convolutions that got me wondering and questioning.. because about the soteriologies that the general populations of Christendom would generate out of a loose account of "witnesses" in the scriptures or entirely philosophically derived, such ideas as "the age of accountability" or "who gets a direct pass because of states of health" etc.
These all come by what assumptions they thought ought to be made to uphold what doctrines they've been inundated with as "the truth". And it's always tandem with E.C.T. or Annihilationism, usually the former. Goes with the whole thing Paul warned about when he said "they've preached a different gospel than the one I've given [*amplification*: the only one we ought to give, to be equally yoked by]".
Because all the most horrendous convolutions come from philosophizing about half-baked notions about justice and judgment, falsified philosophies born out of the worldly minds of humankind that never investigates nor ponders long enough about the full context of what universalism as a concept implies.
Universals versus particulars, parts are parts of a whole, that's what hermeneutics is all about. We ought to see that the problem is entirely solved and entirely coagulated in the One True God already and always. And yet the fact that Alchemy and Christianity have a long history together is no surprise to the adept student and yet also this fear-inducing stigma has kept the adherents of the faith pejoratively in fear of hell against seeing what these esoterics have been withholding this whole time..
Anyway, not to digress too much.
But indeed it was these very things that really always rubbed me the wrong way and eventually got me to dive in to investigating universal salvation, where all convolutions are demystified, and where real mysteries become apparent.
Now I'm invested and certain and can never believe the things that were once novel and distracting but showed me that all the convolutions came from their plot holes of reasoning and lack of knowledge.
P.S. Here's a plot hole that isn't only scripturally able to be answered quite easily, not only philosophically and therein logically figured out but ought to immediately upon hearing such plot holes the Holy Sprit within begs us through intuition is silly and false.
Many uphold the notions of freedom and justice, but they only allow these terrible things that we all know are wrong to manifest on one side of the cosmic drama. Some will say that the Holy God cannot look upon evils as they manifest yet still has an account, like somebody else watched for Him and He must trust another's witness and thus not directly know all things.
Others will say that the Holy God knows all things very intimately, and I'd go with the latter out of the two.
But to say that once one goes to Hell in the model of E.C.T. is suddenly no longer free in pretty much any regard because it's the most isolated and empty of all places in which no sense can be made. Some say this. This goes against the libertarian free-will notions.
Others will say that all manners of sin persist and that evil people forever do deceitful, decrepit and depraved vulgarities against each other. This goes against the people who say the Holy God is forever and always about justice.
To think that the Holy One will simply remain blind to any cosmic point and has no plan is paramount to extinguishing the very essence of our need for salvation and why its promises are so crucial for us to investigate.
Really now, to think that the Holy God is so small to have no plan to rectify the injustices of any place is simply anathema to the very worldview Christians are supposed to be sharing.
How far have we gone? To all what degrees has the gospel been so very perverted??
It's about time to really step up the revival folks. Let us keep working hard and faithfully!
- Your Quality Apologist
On what all sin is founded? On pride, yes, pride is the root and the foundation of all sin and evil. There is not one place found in the Bible that would say that God is so unimaginably weak and powerless that He has no abilities to deal with pride and humble it down, not one place which would say that pride is as indestructible and as eternal as God himself is and that God cannot do anything about it.
What Bible does mention in many places is the following:
Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble. Daniel 4:37
"Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from the fearful presence of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty! The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day." Isaiah 2:11
"Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at all who are proud and bring them low, look at all who are proud and humble them" Job 40:11
"Now your impurity is lewdness. Because I tried to cleanse you but you would not be cleansed from your impurity, you will not be clean again until my wrath against you has subsided." Ez 24:13
So the idea that many Christians are claiming, that God is this total failure who cannot humble down pride and make all sin disappear is not Biblical. It is created for the following reasons: many Christians do not want to believe that God can humble all sinners down and cleanse them from their filth, yet still, even after there is no more pride, no more rebellion and no more sin left, God would continue to burn them forever and ever in flames of fire, because that would be the purest forms of evil, so they came up with this unbiblical idea that God has no power to humble the sinners down, therefore He would have no choice but torment them in flames of fire forever and ever.
If Universalist are right and true, why is it that the early apostolic christian fathers like st. Clement of rome, st. Ignatius and st. Polycarp and St. Ireneaus write letters about warning about the punishment to come eternal punishment in lake of fire, and that in there letters concerning about Eternal conscious torment punishment, and the doctrine of apokatastasis is only exist in the time of st. Clement of alexandria and Origen,
Vince I guess they didn't notice that those in the lake of fire will still be in the presence of Jesus and the holy angels, just like we are today.
Revelation 14:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone👉 in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:👈
I don't believe in hell.
See? It's easy to say!
The fact you exist proves there's no heaven either.
@@williamoarlock8634
non sequitur
Some people need to believe in hell as eternal conscious torment to be able make themselves as good as they can be. They may have a very tenuous relationship with the Spirit of God or even no relationship to make themselves feel “Christian”.
God gives us a choice. LIFE or DEATH. And DEATH is not LIFE somewhere really awful. Malachi 4:1 tells us what will happen to the unbeliever. AND I QUOTE - "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." If you believe that that unsaved live somewhere forever - you must believe that our souls are immortal. BUT THEY ARE NOT IMMORTAL. And only the souls of the saved ever become immortal.
Separation is a quality we declare, claim and maintain (out of ignorance)by our resistance. Hell is the state experienced when we are RESISTING The Presence of God as if we are separate. The “eternal” aspect of hell is in the experience, because if I experience separation from God, and all I see from inside my resistance is that separation, how would I ever imagine any relief or resolution? I couldn’t imagine or hope for an end to it.
People who say 'separateness is an illusion' are themselves deluded.
@@williamoarlock8634 I would suggest that an insistence on "genuine separation" as a "reality" (as opposed to human experience/perspective) place a limitation on the qualities of God and are operating from within a dualistic perspective that is, in fact, gnostic, not Christian.
it requires that "The Highest", "Almighty" Infinite God be subject to a fundamental limitation and co-equal with (or inferior to) another "more absolute" "reality" that He finds Himself situated "in" and limited by. God IS Reality, there is no context larger then Him which would permit Him to be a discretely "separate object" in reality . Otherwise we engage in a profound idolatry and worship a lesser deity more akin to Yaldabaoth/Demiurge then "The Highest".
@@Rsvohi More meaningless word salad and two millennia old nonsense. But your Christ fetish orders you oppose 'the world' (reality).
Our real life is hidden in God with Christ, so if our real life is hidden, then this life obviously is not our real life. We need to awake from the deep sleep Adam has brought mankind into.
Excellent interview, and great content
My comment while ago got cut off accidentally so read both of them together about 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 this is destruction it actually means ruin this destruction is something that is coming from God not that we are being pushed away from God the church has twisted this passage to fit their eternal doctrine this is age-abiding destruction coming from God
I think you're reaching a little bit with this concept. Alienation in this case means you become separated from all the positive attributes of God as your soul is destroyed so yes, it is a separation from God, from a life with God. I think it's a pretty obvious understanding most will have when the term "separation from God" is used. No need to use the term "alienation" to make people get it "better" intellectually. 2 Samuel 14:14 states a general statement that God's desire is to always find ways to preserve life but this does not mean that the outcome will always be preservation of life. God absolutely destroys lives as it is stated in Mt 10:28, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." God did provide a way for lives to not be banished, Jesus Christ. However, the ones who REJECT the way, do get destroyed. God fulfilled his promise, to provide a way, but his way is not forceful. Stating that the fire of hell will somehow force the evil out of a person is not in God's nature the same way that eternal torment isn't. The most loving way to eradicate evil for the sake of the ones who showed loyalty to goodness is by eradicating the evil altogether.
I feel “eternal life” and “eternal punishment” are qualitative and not supposed to be referencing time.
You could also say “the life that comes from God” or the “the punishment that comes from God.
The only question to answer now is if Gods punishment never ends to which I would say
“Mercy triumphs over judgement”
So no, he’ll doesn’t last forever but it is still fearful to go through Gods eternal court.
The scripted answer from those who believe in E.C.T. is, God is not just a God of love, He is a God of justice. To which i reply, your God is far more retributive than loving. He can love me for 80 year's, then torture me eternally for the bad deeds of a lifetime. That's not balanced, c'mon who you trying to convince.
Hell is an Experience; NOT A PLACE !!!
Jonah, King David; where did They Experience hell ?
There is NOTHING THE/OUR Almighty God is not in charge of; Amen
Isaiah 45-7
Deut. 32-39. Etc.
The The allegory of Lazarus and the rich man is about going out of the law day church and the coming in the grace day church !
The Five Brothers are
A reference to the Five
Books of Moses !
Thank you for this. I dialogue with Christian’s all the time about how the Bible never says that it is the inerrant word of God but it literally says that Jesus is!
What good is this for a starving woman dying in a desert watching her malnourished baby die, like there was in Ethiopia.
Wow
Still sounds terrifying.
Give me some verse that proves that the Eternal hell or lake of fire is just purgatorial or restorative or temporary, No where in the bible says its temporary but the bible says in matthew 25 :41 Eternal punishment , Revelation 14:11 their torment forever and ever
That's a little complex as the answer lies within the verses that many assume goes on endlessly. For instance, the word ETERNAL comes from the Greek word, aiónios which means age enduring. It's temporary, as in for an era or period of time, but never ongoing. The same for EVERLASTING and FOR EVER. The lake of fire isn't a proper noun. It's symbolic fire, as in GOD'S CONSUMING FIRE. The old English word, hell is a mistranslation from the words Sheol, hades, and Gehenna, all of which from Jewish culture simply meant death and the grave. Look it up and you'll start to see it.
Let us Pray to God for the Holy spirit to help us to Reveal us the truth from His word the Bible to have right interpret in the bible and guidance of the Holy Spirit , if Hell is not Eternal why this write in the bible
On what all sin is founded? On pride, yes, pride is the root and the foundation of all sin and evil. There is not one place found in the Bible that would say that God is so unimaginably weak and powerless that He has no abilities to deal with pride and humble it down, not one place which would say that pride is as indestructible and as eternal as God himself is and that God cannot do anything about it.
What Bible does mention in many places is the following:
Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble. Daniel 4:37
"Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from the fearful presence of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty! The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled and human pride brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day." Isaiah 2:11
"Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at all who are proud and bring them low, look at all who are proud and humble them" Job 40:11
"Now your impurity is lewdness. Because I tried to cleanse you but you would not be cleansed from your impurity, you will not be clean again until my wrath against you has subsided." Ez 24:13
So the idea that many Christians are claiming, that God is this total failure who cannot humble down pride and make all sin disappear is not Biblical. It is created for the following reasons: many Christians do not want to believe that God can humble all sinners down and cleanse them from their filth, yet still, even after there is no more pride, no more rebellion and no more sin left, God would continue to burn them forever and ever in flames of fire, because that would be the purest forms of evil, so they came up with this unbiblical idea that God has no power to humble the sinners down, therefore He would have no choice but torment them in flames of fire forever and ever.
@@jasonegeland1446
The thing is that in Jewish culture there was Sheol that was considered to be just darkness in a grave, even though already in the OT there are hints that it is not just a state of non-existence but rather an unpleasant place of existence in some underworld. Jesus, however, came with a clear message about what the afterlife is for the sinners is, it is not a state of non-existence but a state of torment.
Now I am convinced that the state of torment is not literally endless. In the Bible we do have several places where endless torment seems to be clearly indicated.
Agreed. This video is utter nonsense. Hell is real,. eternal and a complete separation from God. Not just Rev 14:11 too but remember Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1 Corinthians 6:9
*Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?* Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
If Universalist where right why is that the apostolic fathers like, st. Clement of Rome, st. Polycarp amd ignatius in there letters for the church in the early centuries, have warned again to the punishment to come after judgment, they teach eternal torment punishment and warned the church, so the apostolic faithers they are the disciples of st. John and st.peter who teaches also eternal punishment torment in the lake of fire, so why is it universalism and apocatastasis exist? Its starts from origen of alexandria and clement of alexandria
What do you think happens if a young person dies 5 seconds after passing the magical mythical “age of accountability”? Is that on his 12th birthday? The second of that day he was born, 12 years ago? Did someone have to make all that garbage up? Hell is complete and utter nonsense! Why were Adam and Eve and all the Old Test people never told a single word about any kind of eternal fire pit?
The Bible teaches over and over again all through the Old testament and Paul taught it in Romans 8:39 not even things to come can separate us from the love of God then people will say yeah but what about second Thessalonians 1:9 boy Jesus is going to come and separate all of us in Romans chapter 9 through 11 Paul made universal salvation abundantly clear so what he said in second Thessalonians 1:9 the church has twisted it around even in The New American standard version they added the word away to fit the doctrine but what 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is really saying this word from is atto.
I am not sure what hell is. But I do know one thing. I know sadistic narcissist abusive Muslims (I am Iranian) that do the wrongest acts but still do their prayers and feel safe and comfortable. If God is not holding them accountable we should. It is just psychology, they think do whatever they want but won't be punished because they pray so they feel good.
Here's the bottom line, what did Jesus come to do? Here are just a couple of scriptures, Isaiah 25:8 Hosea 13 verse 14, which go directly to 1st Corinthians 15 and 55, and last but not least, 2nd Timothy 1 10.
Salt is a preservative
😂😂
As I said in earlier comments,
History shows that the doctrine of eternal punishment was an invention of people, long before it was introduced into the Christian faith. So it deserves as much discussion time as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.
He'll is separation, from a Holy and Righteous God. Jesus said, he'll is a place, whear the worm, dieth not, the fire is not quench, their will be weeping, and wailing, and nagging of teeth. You are not Jesus.
My answer to his comment at 14:22
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
Your 'hopefully' wicked and even more deceitful deity who made us in his image apparently...
The septuagint reads, "The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man, and who can know him? I would suggest a translation of the verse as “The heart is complex (from the idea of deceptively unknowable) and fragile (the concept of being extremely vulnerable to life-threatening conditions), who can know it?” From this translation, verse 10 now flows more naturally. God searches this complex and fragile thing to give to each one according to his ways. For the ways of man flow from this complex and fragile heart, as Jesus taught us.
@@robertmichaud8313 More sophism.
@@williamoarlock8634
Not trying to deceive anyone. Just trying to clarify something that has been twisted by religious beliefs that we are basically flawed.
When I was evangelical I had that exact question you mentioned as well. If Jesus payed the price for our sins and took on our punishment to fulfill God's wrath, then wouldn't he be in hell for eternity being tortured? Cuz that's the punishment we are told we deserve and await in hell. Jesus should be in hell right now being tortured, but obviously that's not true. Penal Substitutionary Atonement is not and cannot be the fullness of the Gospel.
Ephesians 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Its Jesus' death on the cross that pays the price for our sins. jesus was never meant to burn in hell you really need to read the bible properly. Charismatics believe this garbage that Jesus burned in hell for 3 days
@@RuggedCross1 Yeah I agree. His death was a sacrifice for all mankind, but it wasn't a sacrifice to appease God's wrath. PSA as taught by almost every evangelical church, at least all the ones I've been in, doesn't make sense. The Gospel is so much bigger and more beautiful than penal substitutionary atonement.
That enmity that Christ slayed on the Cross in that scripture you quoted, was death. He defeated death by death.
@@adrummingdog2782 Jesus' sacrifice is exactly that- penal substitutionary atonement. To say anything else about it is adding to scripture
@@RuggedCross1 I'm not adding anything to Scripture at all. I just disagree with your interpretation. Look up Christus Victor, that is what my position is called roughly. It is the more ancient christian view.
@@adrummingdog2782 No it isnt. You are adding to scripture when you see things that arent there
Revelation 14:9-12 says, "Whosoever's name was not found in the Book of Life was thrown into the Lake of Fire and the smoke of their torment (not annihilation) rises forever and they shall have NO REST DAY OR NIGHT." If the wickeda are burned up and annhilated, then why would the Bible say, "The smoke of their torment rise forever with no rest day or night?" If the wicked are annihilated then there is no rest or reason to consider rest. And if annhilated, there is no day or night. There is nothing.
As I said in earlier comments no one would even be talkin about hell if they weren't reading toxic Bibles, he'll came to Us by Augustine through the Latin Vulgate, there is no hell in the true Hebrew or Greek from cover to cover,!!
Absolutely true!
How would you explain the tree of life?
He'll is real!!!!.. eternal torment, don't believe this sweet dessert. Don't wait until you reach there to find out.
Eternal torment is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the original Hebrew and Greek Bible texts. Jesus NEVER said the word "hell". "Hell" is a word that comes from Norse mytholigy, not the Holy Scripture. Jesus indeed paid the price for our sin. However if that price is eternal torment, then why is Jesus not undergoing eternal torment?
Don’t be deceived ,God is not mocked that what a man sows he shall also reap. Hell is real likewise heaven is real as Jesus talk about both places and said you must be born again , and Jesus said he is the way, the truth, and the life no man can come to the father except through him .
Are we not all mentally impaired?
Yes, as this is what was caused by the first Adam, but then Jesus was sent as the LAST Adam and He has undo all the wrong that was done in the garden of Eden! Rom 5:12-21
Our innocence has been restored at the cross. We are perfect in Christ! Eph 1
Viewers, would you be surprised to learn that the original Bible manuscripts do not contain the word "hell" or any word which means hell.
Sheol is not hell.
Hades is not hell.
Gehenna is not hell.
The Lake of Fire is not hell.
If there was a hell the Bible would say so, wouldn't it?
Stop making up man's narratives! Christ made this subject matter clear) Believe This man or Christ?
The bible says eternal lake of fire forever and ever torment especially in book of revelation brother. Why we are believed that are this universalism true ??
Romans 11:32-36, 5:18. Colossians 1:16-20. "All things" and "all in all" all through Ephesians 1. Revelation 21:4-5. 1 John 2:2, 1 Tim. 2:4, 4:10. Lamentations 3:31-33 and Jeremiah 31:31-34 and many more. Aion and olam only mean "eternal" if connected to God, otherwise in context means an age or an indefinite period of time such as Jonah in the whale or things of the old covenant.
Give me some verse that proves that the Eternal hell or lake of fire is just purgatorial or restorative or temporary, No where in the bible says its temporary but the bible says in matthew 25 :41 Eternal punishment , Revelation 14:11 their torment forever and ever
Learn what olam (Hebrew [and mistranslated in Jonah 2:6) and aion in Greek (refer to Strong's 165 and 166 also other concordances such as Young's (Robert and no relation to Brigham) and Thayers etc.. and what it's adjectives really mean. Only God is "Eternal" from that Latin word (never really in Hebrew or Greek) since it also means no beginning.
Give me a coherent view of both God's Love and Sovereignty and half truths of one or the other from big eva
In the same way your broken English isn't the best way to convey a thought. I'm not shaming your communication ability, I'm simply pointing out that these texts were written in Greek, translated into Latin, and our English Translations are combinations of both, over a long period of time where words and meaning take on different forms.
You can adhere to the idea of eternal conscious torment forever and ever, and *hope* for universal reconciliation. If it violates your conscience as sin to believe it, then it is sin to you.
Do not judge in your heart who is right or who is wrong, or you Judge Christ and the Spirit working within them. Universalism is not the cornerstone of our faith, Jesus Christ is. Some have nearsighted faith, only seeing themselves and few others as saved, others have far-sighted faith given by the Holy Spirit to see the depth, and width, and power God has in redeeming His creation. ALL of creation.
*"Is Hell Separation From God?"* Yes. 100%, all-the-way, eternally dead is separation from God.
✴ _For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish_ *[ "apollumi" - be utterly destroyed ]* _but have everlasting life._ (John 3: 16, KJV)
Jesus taught the regeneration of all things , Matthew 19:28, Jesus said if I be lifted up I will drag all people into me John 1232, the apostle Peter taught it in acts3 21 Paul taught it all through Romans, in Colossians chapter one among other, scriptures,. Look them all up.
"I will draw all judgement to Me), not 'all people'.
U have ni answers seek God be saved..bible describes hell sir❤
God created hell, for the devil and his angels. If you deny he'll, you deny Jesus teachings, and you are not a believer.
On which day of creation did God create hell as accounted in the Genesis account? And on which day of creation did God not say “This is good”?
I can’t find that in my Bible no matter what translation I read. No account of angels being created nor of hell…. 🤔
I could kind of go along with everything up until he said he doesn't believe we have a sin nature...and then he basically negated any respect I have for him as any kind of scholar. It's beyond preposterous insanity to turn on the news or walk down the street or listen to our own thoughts and to deny the absolutely biblical fact that Christ came to save sinners.
I was so ready to watch everything Paul has on youtube until that point in the video. Substitutionary penal atonement is not up for debate. Hell and the interpretation of it is possibly up for a possible translation error but not Christ's work. This is a walk away from Truth and he should be ashamed that he is spewing this dangerous nonsense. This is apostate level blasphemy and calls to be fully rejected.
From context and hearing him talk at other times, I think he just means that he doesn't believe our essential nature is 'sin'. We are image bearers of God and the fall didn't change that. We are still human beings who reflect God, albeit poorly due to sin. I heard some scholars talk about this, and you'd never say someone suddenly had a cat nature or a horse nature. We can't become something we aren't. Our nature is human and that can't change. Is that humanity corrupted or tainted by sin? Most definitely. But it doesn't change our nature into 'sin'.
It does sound like you don't want to let PSA go - I'd watch some more videos on this by different people (NT Wright, Bruce Wauchope, Baxter Kruger, etc), as it really is not a Biblical stance.
Such a shame because for the most part I loved the Shack and my clients told me I could have written it. Jesus said In Matthew 25:41; “then He will say to those on His left depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles.” 2 Peter 2:4; Rev. 20:10. Matt. 26:46. The serpent on the bronze pole represented sin. God is not the camera. Human beings have the chance to know God before choosing to go to hell. This is simply grievous as to how he is imposing his deceived fabricated beliefs as Biblical truths. I pray for Paul’s soul. George MacDonald, C.S. Lewis and Augustine’s beliefs are not to be used to support the Word of God.
If hell is real, then Satan is more powerful than God, and ultimately wins. Hell makes God's love laughable.
Just from the title sure is.
If Universalist where right why is that the apostolic fathers like, st. Clement of Rome, st. Polycarp amd ignatius in there letters for the church in the early centuries, have warned again to the punishment to come after judgment, they teach eternal torment punishment and warned the church, so the apostolic faithers they are the disciples of st. John and st.peter who teaches also eternal punishment torment in the lake of fire, so why is it universalism and apocatastasis exist? Its starts from origen of alexandria and clement of alexandria
I do not speak Greek however the early fathers who spoke Greek as their native language distinguish between retributive punishment (timoria) and corrective punishment/chastisement (kolasin). No where in the NT is timoria used for punishment towards humans. In Matthew 25 Jesus says the eternal punishment is (kolasin) and of a corrective nature. The original meaning of kolasin in Greek literature is a gardening term and it meant pruning away dead so that new life might grow. If Jesus had intended to communicate a tormenting, retributive punishment, he might have communicated it with ‘timoria’ rather than what kind he had in mind ‘kolasin’, correction, chastisement, discipline.