EL84 vs 6V6 18watt amp by Dave Brons
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2014
- www.davebrons.com Here I've my 18 watt amp biased for EL84 and
6V6.
I can't decide which I like best, can you help? Post in the comments.
Settings Clean, crunch and with booster pedals.
Recorded using the Two Notes Torpedo Live and the Two Notes Torpedo
Reload.
Best test so far. Thanks man. It validated my preference for the EL84.
Great demo of the two sets of valves Dave. I definitely preferred "Valve 1" ( EL84's ) in the video, and I understand they will sound different in different amps, but I've got a Swart MOD 84 on the way, and they've got EL84's so I'm hoping that I will get similar results, and be very pleased. Thanks for the great work here, and stellar playing.
Wow: what a surprise ! I was convinced valve 2 was an EL84 !! I definitely prefer the 2, so it's a 6V6... Warmer crunch, brigther clean, Cheers \m/
Me too!!.....
Me likewise
Couldn't agree more. Took the thoughts right out of my head!
Yes, I got a couple of soviet 6V6 for a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo that came with the awful RUBY 6L6GC, I also changed the pre valves with soviet ones, The sound got great.
I was totally blown away that they were so similar (in that you couldn’t hear an obvious switch between them), but the 6V6 edged out the EL84s completely! More dynamics, more glass, more punch, more cry. Thanks so much for the comparison. Super-helpful!
AWESOME video / demo dude!!! Really love the Amp!
Great blind test! Made me a 6V6 fan, and your "rough playing" is way better than my best!
Dude , excellent sounds and playing. and well done on making your amp .
Thanks !
I really like the EL84 for being a little more rounder and dynamic, the 6V6 on the other hand has that "big valve" compression and distortion similar to 6L6.
Good god that is a fantastic rig. Beautiful tone! Nice playing too! The solution is two amps!
Thanks for this. It's exactly what I was looking for.
At first I went toward valve 1, but found myself going toward #2.
I thought maybe they were the other way around.
I see this is 2 years old. I reckon you've made up your mind by now...
Good playing, by the way.
Valve 1 for me! :)
And I'm glad you made this blind test video!
it comforts me in my choice of choosing the EL84 to build my very first tube amp!
cheers
There was less sag in the EL84 than with the 6v6 without the boost, which sounded far, far better. With the boost, the sag was taken up by the pedal and it was not so apparent. That said, the 6v6 with boost sounded very rigid in the attack (since the pedal was doing all the work) and better as the note(s) carried, but still seemed somewhat stiff compared to the smoothness of the EL84 tubes.
Thanks for the test,
Eric
They both sound fantastic. What a great amp you've built
if i missed anything, let me know! i know this is an old video, but it sure is useful! thanx to the creator and viewers!
el84 clean: 1:05
6v6 clean: 1:14
el84 crunch: 1:43
6v6 crunch: 1:49
el84 distortion: 2:16
6v6 distortion: 2:20
6v6 single note dist: 2:30
el84 single note dist: 2:45
el84 solo with boost: 2:56
6v6 solo with boost: 3:00
el84 solo with boost 2: 3:07
6v6 solo with boost 2: 3:15
el84 solo with boost 3: 3:27
6v6 solo with boost 3: 3:56
Was for valve 1 in most of the tones , but they were both very close.
Both sound wonderful
Awesome playing there!
I preferred #2-- #1 was a bit harsher sounding. I wasn't surprised about which was which.
Very nice tone all around!
Very nice playing :-) I also thought that #2 was the EL-84.
Both sounds very good, but I am also in doubt which one I like the best.
great comparison, thanks for sharing this.
The EL84 are the tone I am looking for at the moment. But I like how the 6V6s broke up just a little sooner, a bit spongier. With the boost pedal on, they were even closer in sound and I thought they both sound awesome.
This is an awesome vid, thanks for posting.
The 6V6s had a nice fatness, but there was also a suckout in the mids and a scratchiness on the top. So I'd go with the EL84s for sure. Very nice tones.
Thanks for the comparison! My choice is the 6V6.
This is a great demo. For crunchy chords, I thought I was all about Valve 1 at first, because at 1:48, Valve 2 sounded kind of splatty on both the low and high end, whereas Valve 1 sounded tighter with more growl. Once the AC/DC riff kicked in though, it was toss up between the two valves for crunchy chords. I might say that Valve 1 is more JMP and Valve 2 is more JTM. For leads, I think Valve 2 is better, at least in this amp. Also, cool t-shirt!
I been playing a lot with the same kind of tubes myself so it was very easy for me to know which tube was playing here but it is very hard to tell exactly which one was playing best compared because they sound good in their own way. the EL84 was sounding pretty gentle and nice and the 6V6 more aggressive with more detail so it probably goes together differently depending what is going to be played, having variable negative feedback can bring control of the aggressive side on the 6V6 and make it more controlled and less sharp and then I love the way they sound, 20-120K VR on the feedback works very good where 20K is resistor and 100K pot (In series) to adjust the level and it will bring a lot of variation in the sound to tweak different tubes to optimal sound
I too thought #2 was the EL84. Anyway, it depended on the example. In the first few, I preferred valve 1, but toward the end, especially with the metal and rock sounding licks, I preferred #2. I'll say this, both sound great, and each fits different styles better. thanks for a great demo.
Valve 2 for me Dave, Both sound great, much more similar than i was expecting!
Thanks for taking the time to listen! Why did you prefer it? anything specific?
Wow. Thanks for sharing!
The 84s sounded great, no question. I'd take that amp with the ELs and wouldn't think twice...
BUT
Those creamy lead neck pickup tones with saturated drive, + a little verb/delay - those tones were magic. The 6v6 tubes really bring a humbucking neck pickup to life!
props on your build, I've been building amps since the 70's and must admit you've got a great preamp design on this build. I build 1974 derived amps on occasion and am not often impressed with most EL84 based designs because they are inherently so bright to the point I cant voice enough low frequencies into the tone stack to achieve a musical substitute for the deep low end crunch that comes from larger output marshalls... Curious what all you've got on the front end of this thing though, the combination of effects your running really sound great - Eric Johnson esque ... Cheers Mate!
Rio Grande Amps hey thanks ! It’s the 18watt lite 2b the the Ac15 ef86 preamp . A quick google should find the schematic or if not ask about on 18watt.com or Watkins.com
I preferred V2 almost every time but thought it was the EL84. Good to know.
Love both in different ways. The 6V6s definitely have an openness and sound bigger & fuller but the focus, midrange and grind of the EL84s is nice. Just very different sounds....
Good vid. Answered my question. 6v6 is the best power tube for lower wattage amps
Valve 1 just had a bit more focus and imo sounded better across the board.
Picked valve 1 as the EL84. It has a stronger mid and slightly smoother distortion when pushed hard. The 6V6 has a more scooped mid and produces very nice clean sounds IMO. Nice comparison and nice playing.
EL84.
Now I can't trust myself; I was sure the 6v6 would sound better.
Beleza pura, som alto e claro. Perfeito! Rio RJ Brasil
FWIW, I had the tubes picked right and I preferred the 6V6 for much of what you were playing. The EL-84 sounded "spitty" to me. I'm thinking of converting my two Fender Pro Juniors to 18W's and the tube choice won't really change the cost of the project too much. Ironically, I'm thinking I'll stick with EL-84's.
Totally the 6V6, in every way. I'm a busy player but also a tech, and I feel the same way about most 15-20 watt amps I've met. EL84's tend to sound thin and lack low-end punch. Not that they can't sound good in certain amps, but hearing 6V6 vs. EL84 in the same chassis really drove the point home. Thanks for the demo.
Both sound very good and very similar.
The 18Watt amp is one of my favourites! For cleans I prefer Valve 1 for its clarity and sweet tone. For distorted V2. With the Booster I prefer V1. So for me EL84 for cleans and Booster pedal and 6V6 for overdrive/distortion.
Thanks for the video! Was entertaining and really helpful!
Hello! Nice test you came up with your custom amp. I personally liked the EL84´s because the sound of the "valve2" was maybe too bright to my taste. In the end both were good. But I found the sound difference best in the clean test tones.
Valve 2 clearly adds more gain, i like gain :) Tell me, did you do biasing when replacing the valves? I have an Engl gigmaster 15 and i'm curious to try those 6V6. Can one simply replace the valves or is it really necessary to do biasing? Is there any danger biasing is not performed?
Great video. I was totally bamboozled. I was 100% certain valve #1 was 6V6. Also to answer your question, I liked #1 the best, the EL84 with maybe the exception of what you played more aggressively with more overdrive in front of it, then I think #2 sounded just a hair better, but MIC'd cabinets sound is very different from stage volume sound. Two different worlds, so you would have to decide what your goal was--studio sound/tone or live sound/tone.
Slight preference for the el84. Feels like it has a bit more headroom, but pretty similar overall. But, that low end grind you do at the very end with the 6V6 did sound pretty righteous! Overall, this is a good testimony to how much the circuit contributes to the tone for sure.
Btw, your setup here is almost exactly what I am building right now at home. 18 watt marshall style amp running into a torpedo unit (probably the Live or the Studio). I'd love to know what 18 watt circuit you built given how stellar yours sounds. EDIT: I see you answered this question in the comments below (ampmaker.co.uk) and that you cascaded the preamp and added the VVR. I assume the VVR is for when you are using an actual cab vs. the Torpedo? Not sure why you would need it in the torpedo given it allows you to crank the amp fully.
Killer job on this! Sound freakin' awesome.
guessed that 1 was the el84 . 2 was the 6v6. A tough call, el 84's sounded better balanced and more chimey. The 6v6 sounded darker and fuller in the bass, but more biting on the highs. liked the el 84 slightly better overall, but both are very cool.
Very interesting comparison.
Overall i prefer the valve 1 so it seams like i'm an EL84 kind of persona.
But even more interesting is to note how much the difference get more and more subtle as the overall gain goes up.
Well, it was very entertaining to watch and especially listen to this nice video. I have made this kind of experiment several times myself so it was easy to tell which was which. I have tried the best NOS Telefunken, Mullard and Siemens etc. E84Ls available, and the best 6V6s, especially NOS RCA 6V6s.
IMHO it is impossible to find better clean sound than a matched pair of old unused NOS RCA 6V6s. It just is a sweet and pure sound, with no harsh dirtyness at all.
I like the sound of the 6v6 better. but i think the 84s sit in the mix better. i think if i wanted to be heard in a live setting, i would surprisingly pick the 84s. however, at home just jamming the 6v6 is much more satisfying!
Agreed! gotta have both 😉
this is an excellent test, I like the 6v6
That’s a good sounding amp you made
Nice sounding amp. Both tube sounded great to me. Any chance on getting a schematic of that amp?
Great build. I prefer the 6V6 for lead tones and EL84 for clean/rhythm tones. Either way the amp sounds great.
#2, More open, more dynamic. Now to see which I picked. In big tubes I prefer 6L6's over EL34's.
Hi - I preferred valve 1 for the cleaner sections, but valve 2 as you cranked the gain up! Probably not much help 😉🎸
Well, years late but I nailed the ID of the valves! As for preferred sound, it depends on what you are playing. I like both but would definitely go with a 6V6 for my "warmer", swampier blues work, but like the EL84 high end better for cleans. But, it is all subjective. In the end you've made a fine amp no matter which valves you choose (I would probably build two and have an EL84 and 6V6 rig switchable, but I'm a gear/hardware nerd)
I see this is an old video, but wanted to give my opinion. I think the 6V6 sounded better on the first clips when the tubes are just starting to break up, but the AC/DC riff sounds just amazing with the EL84. Much more attack and power. That's the sound I love.
'course somebody else said the total opposite, but hey its nice to have all these choices - not a bad time to be making amps :)
I had an AC30 for a while and made an AC30 like 'thing' from an old chassis,
which was great fun
I'll have to get some EL84's. I've been using 6V6GT's for some time now. The EL84 just sounds smoother. It's almost like the notes melt into each other. The 6V6 is harsh in comparison, most probably like that for metal riffs, but I play more variety.
Valve 2 was my fave. I have 6V6 Valves in my Marshall DSL 15c. I love them. Egnater also puts 6V6 Valves in his Tweaker amps. I haven't been a fan of EL84's ever. Not since I had a couple squealing 84's in a Mesa Boogie 22 Calibre amp from the 90's. Most of what I run is 6L6 but to tell the truth both valves sound great to my ears. rock on.
EL84 = more Mids , wide response , crunchier
6V6 = more Bass , tight lows , smoother distortion
So glad you did this video. Im buying my first amp with el84 and very much enjoyed the blind test to see which flavor i liked the best. To my ears there was alot of similarities. In the end i like the 6v6 better. But not by much. What amps are out there that use those in the Vox ac15c1 price range. Also, with its simplicity. Not looking for a thousand dials. Great video
I was thoroughly convinced which tube was which and was wrong. Actually both sounded stellar but tube 1 had authority like it wasn't being pushed too hard. Tube 2 had certain dynamics though. Very interesting and thank you
Valve 2 mainly for the cleans. Tough to decide on the distortion.,
I have Marshall dsl 15 watts tube amp it’s got 6v6 and the distortion sounds like shit. I can’t figure out what went wrong. I play through my PRS SE 245
It's Valve 1 for me. Although I was sure it was going to be the 6V6. Nice surprise to see it was the EL84.
I liked #1 better but I could see using valve 2 for some serious rock/metal jams. Overall, I would love to have both options. Great Video!
Can you always change tubes in a self-biasing Plexi/JTM amp between 6v6 and EL84?
valve 2 undoubtedly but only because it sounds fuller, if you were to mess with eq settings im not sure which one i would prefer to be honnest.
Wow I like the 6v6 apparently. It had a little more thump. I wonder which one sounds better farther away
Thanks. The EL84s sound like a Marshall 18W: high transconductance small bottles working hard. Depending on how they are set up, the 6V6 have less gain, and therefore less distortion.
Interesting to hear them side-by-side but it would also be interesting to hear el84 vs 6V6 turned up to equalise the volume/distortion.
cheers
They are biased differently fir similar gain
I was surprised - at the results. I liked Valve 2 better overall - deeper/smoother (expected it to be the EL84). but Valve 1 for the overdriven lead sounded better - brighter, tight, punchy, articulate.
Hi Dave,first of all,well done ,nice video ,in my opinion i prefer the 6v6 on this amp ,as its more crunch ,brighter,and give you more punch of specially on high gain ,what is the mvolts on the el84 that you bias ?Cheers man
6V6 for me, What would I use for Bass Guitar?
what kind of b+ supply you were using to obtain 18 watts with 2 el84 !!??? I am just curious .
Can I put an EL84 in my Fender Champion 600 that has a 6V6? Does it fit?
Thanks so much for posting this video. I have a 6V6 based Marshall 18 watt clone by Avatar. I've since swapped to EL84s using the VHT converters. Your video really helped convince me to give it a try.
Hi glad it helped. Did you change the bias of the cathode resistor for EL84's ? If not they'll not last very long
Dave Brons Hi Dave! I have not changed the resistor. Am I correct in assuming the switch on your chassis at 1:08 in the video is for toggling between cathode resistors? Can you tell me what value I should use for EL84s vs 6V6s? Since I did not build the amp, I'm not even sure which one currently in there is the cathode resistor (although I am familiar with electronics and can read resistor color codes). Thank you!
bluecajun2000 I think I used 150ohm for EL84's and a 220ohm for the 6v6's. If you do a search for 18watt schematics for 6v6's and EL84's you should get an idea. If you are unsure, take it to an amp repair guy or get guidance on wattkins.com forum or 18watt.com I learnt everything I know about amp building from the good folks on those forums.
Dave Brons Got it. I'll check out both of those sites. Thank you!
Nice playing
It all sounds great. There are times where V2 sounded better, but overall, they sounded great
The thing is both sound really nice pal, its more likely to be what your playing or what its playing over as opposed to the isolated tone.
I think your style will suit either tube with the high / medium gain pickups.
Also post mix/mastering I bet the end product would be very close to each other.
Thanks man, kind of you to say! In my head I'm always goin for a Blues Saraceno type tone... dunno if you've heard him, but he is the tone guy for me. Not too much gain and dynamic tone so that when you dig in you get more sustain but not so compressed that it all sounds the same....I you know what I mean!
Nice-sounding amp with either tube.
It's a full staff of different kind of sound machines. Only end-stage was changed? Where is clean tones? Without that lot modulators, reverbs, modeller sound?
Awesome sounding amp and a great test. You should try some tung sol or tad in it though, made my 20 watt plexi build sound closer to a jtm with KTs. JJs are great tubes but they're kind of hairier if that makes sense. The tung and tad tubes are a bit more true to the 6v6gt design and are a bit rounder. That being said I definitely prefer the JJ in a DR over the true 6v6 style. Some are just better suited for different designs.
The 6V6 breaks up earlier/more with the same input from the preamp ? it sounds like so, assuming the preamp and guitar signal was the same. That might affect what people think about both tubes (maybe that's why I thought the 6v6 had more bite). Maybe different brands, within same tube type, differ on what's this break point ? I know you can order Groove tubes that break up earlier or later depending on what you like.
Honestly couldn't tell, they both sounded good
They sounded awfully close to me, but I thought the EL84s sounded a bit tighter and more focussed on the crunch and distorted tracks. So, I'll say I had a slight preference for the EL84s.
i liked the first one better .. but they both sounded good .. just a bit more bite from the first one and more bass and mids from 2 .. so was the 1st one the el84's ?? that would be my guess ..
Any idea why my VHT 6 Ultra; the Variable Watts Control would stop working after I changed the 6L6GT tube made in China, to a 6L6GC Goovetube? Sounds did not change, but my watts dose nothing now. Making me crazy and sad. Help anyone.
+Mojo Bro No sorry I don't know how their system works. Better take it to an amp tech
Preferred EL84 any both low and high power output. Middle sounded about the same to me. Nice comparison demo.
I really like both sounds. Such a nice video! Now i am thinking what to do since i want to build an amp. My main question was if ill put a 6v6 or an EL84. Well still is a question but i already have the el84.
I like valve 1 [EL84] especially for clean tone [very spacious and beautiful]. The distortion of the [EL84] is very articulate and sounds more dynamic [dynamic sounds like you can make the tube scream at will]. The 6v6 sounds kind of hollow in comparison but in certain instances of distorted sound it has a raw distortion dynamic that tares open the sonic wave every time. I like them both for different reasons... I would always go with the [EL84] for all around sonic heaven, however, if I was a recording artist I would like to stash a 6v6 amp for that certain something as well. This was a fantastic video Dave Brons because it was so easy to understand and the comparisons were balanced perfectly. Thank you!
Thanks Ken for dropping by. I'm glad you like it!
+Ken Whit i loved valve 1 it was so creamy and smooth i could listen to that on repeat even though im generally a metal person i actually don't like it when the tubes are too bright
Agree totally with Ken's assessment, thought same, EL84 much more dynamic.
Valve 2. But towards the end it seemed the Valve 1 was a bit more thick but valve 2 was tighter and more bottom
which DIY amp kit is your amp ? answer for ur question is valve 2
This video has me thinking about investing in a pair of VHT Special 6 EL84 Adapters for my Pulse PM15H amp head and then buying a couple of EL84 tubes to have the option of swapping them back & forth. The amp I have is a 1x12AX7B & 2x 6V6GT. It's basically a rebranded Carlsbro EVO 15H. even though I preferred the 6V6's, the EL84's would be a nice change up.
Here's a comparison of 6V6 vs 6L6 (USA) vs EL84 vs EL34 (GBR) tubes.
ruclips.net/video/PE3atQ8OZFg/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/XpaW89dVbF8/видео.html
The circuit the amplifier is made plays a huge difference not just the tubes
Really thought till the end v1 was 6v6 … and I liked more v1 over v2 … then the result really surprised me …thanks for the comparison
I prefereer halve no 1 It gives a little broader sound with a tiny bit of extra body compared to valve no 2. Tip is it possible to make an amp switchable to different valve settings at just one click?
seven belt I used two switches . Egnater made an amp that did that though
Pretty good video here and I like the way you held back the answers till the end. I prefer Valve 1 because I like the breakup and overall sustain better than Valve 2. To my ears Valve 2 seems a bit jagged under certain circumstances. It's tough to find one tube that fits all conditions.
Liked V2 by far, but would have guessed it was the 84 not the 6V6. The saturation and sustain sounded more Vox-like vs Smooth like a Deluxe Reverb in the power section.
Hey Dave, I would like to ask you something: Do these sound characteristics of those valves apply when they are in class A/B pushpull poweramp or am I stupid? I'm designing my own amp (plexi style 15 W with FX loop) and it kinda bothers me, because friend of mine has also EL84 push pull amp and it sounds muddy no matter how he sets EQ or no matter which guitar he plugs into it. And no, the preamp itself sounds good, the poweramp somehow makes the sound bad.
Matěj Růžička EL84’s sounding muddy ? That’s a surprise. My amp is a push pull 18watt. I use the standard values for the PA used my 18watt.com on their lite 2 B schematic . My preamp is borrowed from a vox ac15 .
Well, your tone in general was amazing...! I didn't have an overriding preference either way...it changed from sound to sound, so I kept score... :) Overall I preferred sound #1. A little broader and more focused maybe...which wasn't always better depending on the example. I'm using a borrowed 18w Tyler (6V6) at the moment btw. Great with pedals. Thinking of maybe purchasing a Bogner Atma for my very own. We play small to rather large venues but mostly edgy funk so we keep the stage volume fairly low. Thanks...!
Love the AC/DC shirt, bro!
I expected V1 to be the 6v6 as well I liked the EL84. I have a Kustom Defender V5 5 watt amp 12AX7 and 1 EL84, anybody know is it possible to add a second EL84 without transformer changes? Thanks