Hello again! Thanks for the quick response to the previous question. A new question - do you know an example that anyone managed to restore the operation of the BMS in full, with protection after the protection was triggered? In my opinion, methods with disabling protection, or installing another BMS are very fire hazardous, since the vacuum cleaner turns on and works by itself on a timer. Some apply this to a drill or other hand-held power tool. Even so, I wouldn't recommend it. You can simply burn your hands during operation, in addition, when charging, the device is usually left unattended.
I would be reluctant to use one of these battery packs without the protection circuit working. I was not able to find the exact replacement triggerable fuse. It is hard to find any of them that are less than 10 amps. So If the fuse is blown, I would probably scrap the pack.
Nice very clear elaborated schematic teaching,,,may i ask that strangest thing f1 fuse i have tested it its opened on my samsung jet 90 battery pack its hard to find online can i just make it connected its other like shorting them its other thanks
It appears to be a special type of fuse called a - Self Control Protector or Self Control Fuse. Something like this: www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bussmann-Eaton/SCF4030-12-05?qs=Li%252BoUPsLEntK5nHGRSTGhw%3D%3D. But I have no idea what current rating the one in the battery pack is. Can jump it out for testing. I wouldn’t put it in use with the fuse jumped out. I think it would be a fire hazard.
thank you for your video. i have dj96-00193a battery . i've made the test like you at 6.35 minute of this video. one fuse f1 works, but the other f2 one no. there is some possibility to restore it?
If you don't have 20-something volts on both the big leads of F1 then it is blown. It is a special self-protector for batteries. Something like these: www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/littelfuse_battery_protectors_itv4030_15a_datasheetpdf.pdf . But I don't know what the specs are for the one in the battery pack. When everything is normal all 3 leads should have almost the same voltage on them.
The yellow and white wires are a serial communication interface. Probably telling the vacuum what state the battery pack is in. So if the vacuum doesn't get the correct information from the battery pack it probably won't do anything. That will make it very difficult to use any other type of battery.
Hi~ I left a comment on another video about your Samsung battery. And I took a closer look at this video and your comments, and there is a little controversy in Korea. The main IC of Samsung BMS has memory for the basic battery set, so it is set at 18650 1800mA. Therefore, it is meaningless to change to a higher-efficiency battery, i.e., a high-efficiency 18650 such as 3,400 mA, and it is meaningless because 12 cells are recognized as 6 cells even if they are inserted into a 6-cell battery pack. They say that unless the main IC is initialized, it is meaningless to do high efficiency or 12 cell battery repackage work. What do you think?
I’m not sure. I think it would depend on how they are monitoring the charge and discharge state of the cells. The only way to know for sure is to try it.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 I think the answer to the question is easy to check. Simply measure the battery capacity after replacing the cells. I promise to do so and let you know if I can unlock my BMS :)
Hi, I have this kind of robot vacuum cleaner. I realized that the BMS is broken and I have to change it. I disassembled the battery pack, the battery pack is a 6S2P of 21.6V 4.4 Ah. Can you help me choose the BMS that can replace the original? Give me a link where to buy it. Thank you
The battery pack BMS has to communicate with the vacuum, so I doubt there are any replacement BMS boards. I think the best bet would be to try and find an entire battery on eBay or the like.
Thank you very much for the information. Thanks to you, I managed to repair several batteries. Unfortunately, a lot of blocked batteries end up after long-term storage. My question is next. Interchangeability of dj96-00193a and dj96-00193a. Dimensions, connectors, wires, voltages are the same. The only difference is in the capacity. I did not find the official Samsung substitution table. Do you have a schematic for 96-00193A?
hi, I have a problem with my powerbot vr 7000. After replacing the batteries, the robot works for about 15 minutes and goes to the base to charge, although the batteries still have sufficient charge. Do you know what could be wrong? I will be very grateful for your answer
I don’t know for sure, but I would suspect one of the cells is discharging differently from the others. And the battery monitor is trying not to let that happen. That's the only thing I can think of at the moment.
Yeah that connector on the micro is weird. I would have said JTAG, but after looking at the schematic and seeing how it traces out, it's definitely not JTAG. The Renesas datasheet for the RAJ240080 isn't much help - those pins have names, but they're all DIN, DOUT, and DIO. While searches for DIO gives results high on the nostalgia factor, it's not getting us anywhere. Those NDD1 FETs (if that's what they are) come up as 600V/8A ON-Semi numbers, but all the datasheets I see are not SOT-23s, they're DPAKs and TO-220s. You don't usually see FETs in that package. I wish I could be more help. Those codes don't come up as anything recognizable by any of the usual datasheet sites and smd code book sites.
Yea I suspect some off brand semi manufacture. I’m pretty sure all the transistors are MOSFETs. I think it was made to set on a shelf for a long time with out running down the batteries. The main controller IC is something I would like to know more about.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Should be that Renesas part number I gave above. I thought I linked right to the datasheet, but I guess our youtube overlords don't approve of such behavior. Or maybe it's just me. idk.
Thanks, That has to be it. Datasheet says it supports up to 5 cells but sure looks like it will work for 6. Very nice, I really appreciate it. I'll have to update schematic now. And yea I think You tube strips out links and I can kinda under stand that.
I don’t know. I’ve never used any Renesas MCUs. The header on the board just has the tool0 pin, 2 reset pins, port P122 pin, ground and 3.3 volt regulator pin. But that header may be for testing and not programming. Someone that has used a Renesas RL78 MCU could probably shed some light on it’s use.
There is a special fuse and 2 MOSFET switches in between the power leads and the batteries. I drew up a schematic for it here: github.com/mlplel/rev_schmatic_dj96_00193e . I think it's pretty close to the actual battery pack.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Hi there, i do not understand very much about electronics, would you explain more details how to get it recharged?. I have a warehouse and recently got returned lots of these robot vacuums from samsung. Please need help.
I believe the battery pack has to communicate with the vacuum to charge or discharge. The battery cells could be charged manually, but charging Li-ion cells safely and properly is not any easy task. If the pack will not charge with it in the vacuum on the charging base, then one of the three items is defective. If you have multiple items, try different combination of charging base, vacuum and battery pack. But it’s not just a simple matter of supplying a dc voltage to the battery to get it to charge.
That would not be a safe way to charge the batteries. If you just want to test to see if the batteries will take a charge, it could work. I would limit the current to less than 500 milliamps for the test.
Hello everyone, I have a problem with my robot, it seems charged, I replaced the battery cells and they are at 3.9V, it moves away from the charging station, dies and the LEDs go out. Do you have experience with this problem? Would it be possible to have the schematic in PDF? Thank you very much
How far does it move off the base? If it just moves off the contacts then I would suspect battery pack problems. I updated Github with a PDF of the schematic. github.com/mlplel/rev_schmatic_dj96_00193e
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Some times it pulls off and twists and turns on the vacuum motor to start cleaning, other times it moves off the contacts. I have suspicions about the battery board. I check it. Thanks a lot.
It sure sounds like the battery pack. I would try and put maybe a half an amp load on the batteries and see what the voltage reading is. If it's good, then I would look for something around the MOSFET power switches.
my board positif wire no supply which part do i need to check? when i check using multimeter -ve on black wire +ve on b+ have 21.40v but when measure on red n black wire no supply.
F1 has 3 leads. Check the resistance between the two pins that are close together. They should read almost shorted. If not F1 is probably open. It is a special triggerable fuse. If it is okay, The controller may have FET2 and FET3 turned off. That will disconnect the batteries from the power leads.
Then F1 is defective. I believe it is something like these: www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electronic-components/resources/data-sheet/eaton-scf4030-self-control-fuse-data-sheet-elx1133-en.pdf But finding one in stock for a 5 or 6 cell battery pack is difficult. And who knows what the current rating is supposed to be.
It's a special fuse. Probably a fire hazard without the right one in place. And I don't know if one of those would work. 12 amps seems a bit high. But that’s the smallest current rating I’ve seen. If the batteries are rated for 10 amps. I would not feel comfortable having a 12 amp fuse on them. Certainly not something that is going to be running around my home.
Hi my robot have problem about battery. Now i check voltage from line battery but i don't know about voltage of line red white yellow black (good battery) please advice 😂😂
If I remember correctly, the red and black are the power lines. Around 24 volts should be on them, but the battery pack will have to be connected to the vacuum to make the measurement. The yellow and white are serial data lines. The battery controller has an electronic switch that the vacuum has to tell it to turn on for the battery voltage to appear on the red and black wires.
Thank you for the video and schematic reversing. Very helpful!!!! You have an impressive background!!! BR- Lee
Glad it was helpful!
Hello again! Thanks for the quick response to the previous question. A new question - do you know an example that anyone managed to restore the operation of the BMS in full, with protection after the protection was triggered? In my opinion, methods with disabling protection, or installing another BMS are very fire hazardous, since the vacuum cleaner turns on and works by itself on a timer. Some apply this to a drill or other hand-held power tool. Even so, I wouldn't recommend it. You can simply burn your hands during operation, in addition, when charging, the device is usually left unattended.
I would be reluctant to use one of these battery packs without the protection circuit working. I was not able to find the exact replacement triggerable fuse. It is hard to find any of them that are less than 10 amps. So If the fuse is blown, I would probably scrap the pack.
Thanks for the gerat in depth video! Glad to know it's working after battery replacement!
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the comment.
Nice very clear elaborated schematic teaching,,,may i ask that strangest thing f1 fuse i have tested it its opened on my samsung jet 90 battery pack its hard to find online can i just make it connected its other like shorting them its other thanks
It appears to be a special type of fuse called a - Self Control Protector or Self Control Fuse. Something like this: www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bussmann-Eaton/SCF4030-12-05?qs=Li%252BoUPsLEntK5nHGRSTGhw%3D%3D. But I have no idea what current rating the one in the battery pack is. Can jump it out for testing. I wouldn’t put it in use with the fuse jumped out. I think it would be a fire hazard.
thank you for your video. i have dj96-00193a battery . i've made the test like you at 6.35 minute of this video. one fuse f1 works, but the other f2 one no. there is some possibility to restore it?
If you don't have 20-something volts on both the big leads of F1 then it is blown. It is a special self-protector for batteries. Something like these: www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/littelfuse_battery_protectors_itv4030_15a_datasheetpdf.pdf . But I don't know what the specs are for the one in the battery pack. When everything is normal all 3 leads should have almost the same voltage on them.
What do yellow and white wires go to in robot? What should voltages be? Really want to convert these robots to use dewalt or hart 20v batteries
The yellow and white wires are a serial communication interface. Probably telling the vacuum what state the battery pack is in. So if the vacuum doesn't get the correct information from the battery pack it probably won't do anything. That will make it very difficult to use any other type of battery.
Hi~ I left a comment on another video about your Samsung battery. And I took a closer look at this video and your comments, and there is a little controversy in Korea. The main IC of Samsung BMS has memory for the basic battery set, so it is set at 18650 1800mA. Therefore, it is meaningless to change to a higher-efficiency battery, i.e., a high-efficiency 18650 such as 3,400 mA, and it is meaningless because 12 cells are recognized as 6 cells even if they are inserted into a 6-cell battery pack. They say that unless the main IC is initialized, it is meaningless to do high efficiency or 12 cell battery repackage work. What do you think?
I’m not sure. I think it would depend on how they are monitoring the charge and discharge state of the cells. The only way to know for sure is to try it.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 I think the answer to the question is easy to check. Simply measure the battery capacity after replacing the cells. I promise to do so and let you know if I can unlock my BMS :)
@@VladimirVassiljev-qg6rd Hello! So, have you discovered if It makes any difference using 6 or 12 cells?
Hi, I have this kind of robot vacuum cleaner. I realized that the BMS is broken and I have to change it. I disassembled the battery pack, the battery pack is a 6S2P of 21.6V 4.4 Ah. Can you help me choose the BMS that can replace the original? Give me a link where to buy it. Thank you
The battery pack BMS has to communicate with the vacuum, so I doubt there are any replacement BMS boards. I think the best bet would be to try and find an entire battery on eBay or the like.
Thank you very much for the information. Thanks to you, I managed to repair several batteries. Unfortunately, a lot of blocked batteries end up after long-term storage. My question is next. Interchangeability of dj96-00193a and dj96-00193a. Dimensions, connectors, wires, voltages are the same. The only difference is in the capacity. I did not find the official Samsung substitution table. Do you have a schematic for 96-00193A?
No I sure don't. I drew up the E schematic from the batter pack I had.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Ok. Thanks for the quick advice.
hi, I have a problem with my powerbot vr 7000. After replacing the batteries, the robot works for about 15 minutes and goes to the base to charge, although the batteries still have sufficient charge. Do you know what could be wrong? I will be very grateful for your answer
I don’t know for sure, but I would suspect one of the cells is discharging differently from the others. And the battery monitor is trying not to let that happen. That's the only thing I can think of at the moment.
Yeah that connector on the micro is weird. I would have said JTAG, but after looking at the schematic and seeing how it traces out, it's definitely not JTAG. The Renesas datasheet for the RAJ240080 isn't much help - those pins have names, but they're all DIN, DOUT, and DIO. While searches for DIO gives results high on the nostalgia factor, it's not getting us anywhere.
Those NDD1 FETs (if that's what they are) come up as 600V/8A ON-Semi numbers, but all the datasheets I see are not SOT-23s, they're DPAKs and TO-220s. You don't usually see FETs in that package.
I wish I could be more help. Those codes don't come up as anything recognizable by any of the usual datasheet sites and smd code book sites.
Yea I suspect some off brand semi manufacture. I’m pretty sure all the transistors are MOSFETs. I think it was made to set on a shelf for a long time with out running down the batteries. The main controller IC is something I would like to know more about.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Should be that Renesas part number I gave above. I thought I linked right to the datasheet, but I guess our youtube overlords don't approve of such behavior. Or maybe it's just me. idk.
Thanks, That has to be it. Datasheet says it supports up to 5 cells but sure looks like it will work for 6. Very nice, I really appreciate it. I'll have to update schematic now. And yea I think You tube strips out links and I can kinda under stand that.
DIN, DOUT and DIO pins could represent native Renesas programming port for their E8 programming board.
I don’t know. I’ve never used any Renesas MCUs. The header on the board just has the tool0 pin, 2 reset pins, port P122 pin, ground and 3.3 volt regulator pin. But that header may be for testing and not programming. Someone that has used a Renesas RL78 MCU could probably shed some light on it’s use.
Hi, why there is no reading on black n red wires? But reads 21.6 v between B- n B+6.
There is a special fuse and 2 MOSFET switches in between the power leads and the batteries. I drew up a schematic for it here: github.com/mlplel/rev_schmatic_dj96_00193e . I think it's pretty close to the actual battery pack.
@@metalplasticelectronics354
Hi there, i do not understand very much about electronics, would you explain more details how to get it recharged?. I have a warehouse and recently got returned lots of these robot vacuums from samsung. Please need help.
I believe the battery pack has to communicate with the vacuum to charge or discharge. The battery cells could be charged manually, but charging Li-ion cells safely and properly is not any easy task. If the pack will not charge with it in the vacuum on the charging base, then one of the three items is defective. If you have multiple items, try different combination of charging base, vacuum and battery pack. But it’s not just a simple matter of supplying a dc voltage to the battery to get it to charge.
@@metalplasticelectronics354
Will it gets to charged if connect directly to B-(0) and B+ 6 ?
That would not be a safe way to charge the batteries. If you just want to test to see if the batteries will take a charge, it could work. I would limit the current to less than 500 milliamps for the test.
Hello everyone,
I have a problem with my robot, it seems charged, I replaced the battery cells and they are at 3.9V, it moves away from the charging station, dies and the LEDs go out.
Do you have experience with this problem?
Would it be possible to have the schematic in PDF?
Thank you very much
How far does it move off the base? If it just moves off the contacts then I would suspect battery pack problems. I updated Github with a PDF of the schematic. github.com/mlplel/rev_schmatic_dj96_00193e
@@metalplasticelectronics354 Some times it pulls off and twists and turns on the vacuum motor to start cleaning, other times it moves off the contacts.
I have suspicions about the battery board. I check it. Thanks a lot.
It sure sounds like the battery pack. I would try and put maybe a half an amp load on the batteries and see what the voltage reading is. If it's good, then I would look for something around the MOSFET power switches.
my board positif wire no supply which part do i need to check? when i check using multimeter -ve on black wire +ve on b+ have 21.40v but when measure on red n black wire no supply.
F1 has 3 leads. Check the resistance between the two pins that are close together. They should read almost shorted. If not F1 is probably open. It is a special triggerable fuse. If it is okay, The controller may have FET2 and FET3 turned off. That will disconnect the batteries from the power leads.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 all 3 pin on F1 no reading to each other
Then F1 is defective. I believe it is something like these:
www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electronic-components/resources/data-sheet/eaton-scf4030-self-control-fuse-data-sheet-elx1133-en.pdf
But finding one in stock for a 5 or 6 cell battery pack is difficult. And who knows what the current rating is supposed to be.
@@metalplasticelectronics354 can use that part to replace? i will try to replace it..that unit cant be bypass?
It's a special fuse. Probably a fire hazard without the right one in place. And I don't know if one of those would work. 12 amps seems a bit high. But that’s the smallest current rating I’ve seen. If the batteries are rated for 10 amps. I would not feel comfortable having a 12 amp fuse on them. Certainly not something that is going to be running around my home.
Hi my robot have problem about battery. Now i check voltage from line battery but i don't know about voltage of line red white yellow black (good battery) please advice 😂😂
If I remember correctly, the red and black are the power lines. Around 24 volts should be on them, but the battery pack will have to be connected to the vacuum to make the measurement. The yellow and white are serial data lines. The battery controller has an electronic switch that the vacuum has to tell it to turn on for the battery voltage to appear on the red and black wires.