The fact that Tanner and Samantha found each other in this world is the only thing that makes me think there might be a God. 😉 Love them. Their friendship truly brings me joy.
“It felt like going in to the holy of holies, walking up to the mercy seat, tearing away the veil and seeing yourself sitting there. And then laughing hysterically because it took you this long to realize that”. Gave me chills, so well said.
I’m Mormon who hasn’t left yet but am in the process and I’ve been taking them for a few years and it has been so helpful in exploring feelings and emotions and so many things.
Sam and Tanner pretty well killed my "angry phase" before it could even start. I'm not really into the spiritualism things that they've gotten into, but I still enjoy their work immensely. Loved their live streams of the Mormon Bachelor, even though it was obvious that Tanner was not loving that at all. We had some overlap at BYU-I, and I wish that I had known them. Sam, Tanner, if you do read this comment, I just want to say thank you two for being so authentic and sharing that with the rest of us.
Knocking it out of the park lately with MS, John!! So much love for Sam & Tanner. I have listened to their original episode quite a few times. I found MS about 6 months before and I was deep in the muck when their episode aired. I remember feeling so validated by Sam's experience of being a teen convert, raised in a family without religion, going to a church school as a convert, etc. I think in that episode she talks about converts being sometimes more disaffected by having a faith crisis than lifetime members and that was a huge lightbulb moment for me. I had literally turned away from my secular upbringing, joined the church and put all my stock in it. So when my shelf broke, it was a massive, messy crash. My husband who was a lifetime member, barely even seemed phased by leaving. He was like "I always thought church was boring" and that was basically it! I was angry for months and anguished for quite some time, while he seemed fine. Sam talking about that really gave a voice to how I was feeling and that helped me a lot. Thank you, all 3 of you stellar, amazing humans, for this thought provoking and spirituality edifying conversation.
The original episodes you did 5 years ago happened during the peak of my faith crisis and were absolutely instrumental in me leaving the church and starting my life outside of it. Been following both Mormon Stories and Zelph on the Shelf since that day, and seeing the reunion here is amazing. Absolutely appreciate this now and it feels weirdly sentimental. Seriously, thank you so much for what you do and all of the work you have put in, looking forward to another follow up in 5 years!
Former born-in lifetime JW, now 51, and only lucky enough to find my way out and awake in my 40's--wanting to say these two beautiful souls speak for my experience and journey in and out of--and beyond--my religion/cult of birth. Thank you for all you do and share.
Have been out for about 5 years and I am still struggling to fill some of the voids that were created when leaving the church. This video left me feeling hopeful and excited for the future. Thank you to all involved.
Go look at Psycholofist - hope I got the name right. Just found him yesterday. Hope I got it right. So many young people are leaving the church and finding help with Mormon Stories and others doing the hard work of reconstructing their lives. Thank you John and Sam and Tanner! 👍🏾🇿🇦💜🙏🏾
@2:33:14 "A high-demand religion is organized to distract yourself from yourself." No truer words have been said. Absolutely true! Early-morning seminary, Mormon missions, getting married and having a family while you're still studying, Church callings, etc. @2:39:20 "Getting out of a high-demand religion...is a major life accomplishment."
I'm just in the first few minutes of this and realizing I'm in the same spot Tanner was when he was so hopeless and searching for meaning. Then, he realized he was a creator and he needed to do something to actively create a life he loved. It's clicking for me and I think I'm realizing I am a creative type too. Thanks for sharing this part of his story💕 I love these podcasts, they're so so helpful in deconstructing faith and giving me hope for a future.
Came here from rewatching their original, and WOW you can see a visible difference in their level of joy. Freedom looks good on you, Samantha and Tanner. Thank you for your contribution and your story. ♥️
Sooo good. Thank you! I am a former JW and can entirely relate to everything Sam & Tanner articulated. And how they view life now--the philosophy and compassion that guides them--all of this reflects my experience. It took me a heartbreak and a breakdown before I woke up at age 43. I am now 51 and life is so good now, every day is such a gift, and my time is precious, leading me to find the sacred in the mundane, the deep joy in the small things. Thank you for articulating what is so similar to my journey.
I'm a never-mo but was raised in another high-demand Christian sect. I love Mormon Stories and Zelph on the Shelf. This interview really spoke to me, especially talking about creativity as spirituality. I really resonated with a lot of their comments like about music and being such a self-critic. It can be hard to give myself permission to just do creative things because they bring me joy and reject toxic productivity. Anyways, I just wanted to say thank you to them and you, John, for sharing this with us. I hope you know it has an even wider, meaningful reach than just the ex/post/progressive Mormon community.
On a separate note, John, I really see and value the work you've put into the craft of interviewing. You've always been great, but I've noticed your growth over all the years. I appreciate your constant effort to learn more and improve. I see you looking out for power dynamics you might not have noticed before, seeking to elevate less-heard voices, and just overall being an active and empathetic listener. Keep up the great work!
Well done for supporting these two John! They are both so talented and so helpful to others who may be struggling with a faith crisis. Two outstanding young people who have so much to give and they are so genuine in everything they do. I love their humor and the silliness, I love their depth, integrity and tenacity, they are a shining light, a breath of fresh air. Sam, Tanner and John thank you for all the wonderful work you do and Merry Christmas!🎄
5 years ago... wow. Their original interview with John was the newest episode when I found Mormon Stories, and the first material I consumed that was outside of the correlated material. Life has changed so much.
Thank you for addressing how finding out at a later age affects you emotionally thinking you’ve wasted your life. I just found all this out and 52. I’m not going through depression as of yet but am so angry thinking about the decisions I have made in my life that I could have made differently. Oh the possibilities that have been list. But it’s not too late to look within and find out my new self and what that means. Beautiful.
I discovered Mormon Stories because of Zelph on the Shelf. Discovered Zelph randomly through suggested video despite not looking for anything related to Mormonism.
Glad I found this channel. So strange Samantha, I am also from Essex, UK but have a different story. You found religion in your teens. I grew up in Christianity, and went to Christian primary and senior school, which I did not have a good time at. But as a teen and early 20’s I was questioning the religion, went through periods of trying really hard to believe. Finally moved from the area, left Christianity, for me the best choice I have made, but it’s not easy. In my 30’s I finally cut ties with friends when they came down to visit and I got judged for living with my partner outside marriage. Being judged for what I was wearing as a woman.
So, the one out of the three of them that doesn’t drink, do pot, or do psychedelics was the one who came up with the name “Zelph on the Shelf”? A bit shocking.
I love Sam and Tanner! Also, when John mentioned creators that are making post mormon content, it made me think of a post-mormon embroidery page I follow. Please interview apostitch!!! I would love to hear her mormon story.
I love you guys so much!!! Gorgeous, deep, wise, profound souls!!! You’ve all helped me so much on my journey out of Mormondom. Life is so amazing and full and joyful out in the wonderful universe. Keep up the amazing work !!
@Mormon Stories Podcast -- John you are such an incredible resource to the ExMo and Mo communities. Thank you for consolidating so much ExMo/Mo Knowledge into one place. Your channel will continue to have so much success with content like this. Keep up the tremendous work!!!
Great conversation. I think the range of topics covered has been a welcome emotional/intellectual entree. Thank you to the three of you (and everyone behind the scenes).
“People are what life has made them to be...” - There is so much truth relating to free will and neuroscience wrapped up in that statement. David Eagleman and Sam Harris have spoken on those topics in such amazing detail. Thank you both for bringing those topics to light.
I love the story of the zelph on the shelf logo rebirth. It shows they're willing to take criticism, change something, and be open and honest about it. And it's beautiful!
Thank you for this!! I’ve always said that I’m not a creative, but I AM! I love to organize and I need to focus more on organizing for my creative outlet.
I found it really hard after my faith transition to cope with feelings of "what's the point any more" and also having just this massive, overwhelming fear of death. As a mormon, I never feared death, I welcomed it. Looked forward to it even, because I thought it would be so much better than this life. But when I went through my faith transition and realised that there was no way to know what's going to happen when we die, I became terrified of it! The thing that helped me, was something my husband helped me to realise: even when I was mormon, I most likely wasn't right about the after life because beliefs don't change reality. Reality is just... reality and being mormon doesn't change what's going to happen. Heck, if it's completely different to what you expected, being mormon might actually make it worse because then you'll be very confused! I now compare it to when you're waiting in line to enter an exam hall. When you're in that situation, there's nothing more you can do. So you might as well just calm down and not stress about it. The same thing applies to death. Death is going to happen, and there's nothing we can do to prepare for it. So we might as well enjoy the ride, do what helps you to feel fulfilled and greet death as a friend you just haven't met yet. Before, I was living so I could enjoy death. But now, I'm living so I can enjoy life and its so much better!
Totally related to Tanner saying “disordered eating”. I’ve used that term for over a decade! I was never diagnosed officially with an “eating disorder with capital letters” like he said. And it’s true for me also that the church played a big part. Anyways. Really enjoyed this episode. Thanks to all of you who participated!
damn this is so good. the three of you are each so astute and articulate. dont you think ex mormons embody the only truths of mormonism: kindness, generosity and honesty?
Thank you for talking about spirituality, sense of self, food, etc. I am currently on the journey to find what spirituality means to me which includes all those things, and I added The Power of Now to my book list. I don’t hear these topics talked about too much so I was very interested. It’s also very different when you come from a high-demand religion and have to teach yourself all of those things. Good episode!
Just watched the song playlist on zelph on the shelf channel…what the hell it’s actually pretty good! More songs, I feel the spirit when I listen to your songs.
To quote Neil DeGrasse Tyson: "A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong." That's such a weird and difficult concept for Mormons and other religious people. Personally, I like to believe on a God but that's not because I actually think God exists. It's because believing in a God helps me feel better. I know I'm probably wrong about my perceptions of what God is (or isn't), because I've never seen it!
Go Streisand Effect! Jonathan Streeter commented on another video that his TBM brother had never heard of John Dehlin nor the CES Letter until the Fair Mormon video aired and asked him about them.
The church finds vulnerable people and leverages their vulnerabilities to get them to join. There is even a priesthood session talk about it. A church leader was super impressed with how an Elder's quorum president was able to re-activate so many elders. He did it by waiting for the men to have a crisis and then gave them support, help, counsel - whatever they needed with church strings attached to it. This is also why third-world countries have insane conversion rates. This is how all cults work - prey on the vulnerable.
Everything about Tanner’s experience with nature, spirituality, and psychedelics speaks to my very core. What groups or communities in UT does he recommend?
Was I the only one who had never heard of Zelph before? Been a Mormon all my life, just learned about it on Wikipedia. But this is evidence that Zelph on the Shelf is a great name, because even for people like me who totally miss the reference, it's super memorable and fun to say.
This was AMAZING. I love John and I love ZotS (I've been a proud though small Patreon supporter for a couple of years) and these two young people are who I want to be when I grow up!
Understanding and accepting, let alone leaving the Mormon Church and high-demand religions in general, requires intellectual, emotional, and moral courage; intellectually because accepting that it is not true is an immense intellectual realization to make; emotionally because dealing with the collapse of one's worldview and even identity is a painful emotional ordeal to go through; and morally because doing what is right by leaving and letting the consequences follow is the hard moral decision to make.
John, you’re right. You’re stuffy and crabby and old-fashioned (and wonderful, though). 🤪 Go grab a beer and get back to us. 🍻 What a FANTASTICALLY UPLIFTING interview. I feel kinship with these fabulous exmo millenials, being a fabulous exmo millenial myself. Evolving and growing is our jam. What a time to be alive. Ever grateful for the many who went before us so that we can break free now. Thank you, John. You do you. It’s changing the damn world.
I, too, love ecstatic dance & dislike the bar scene. I hope more people (post covid) can discover it. Shed your ego, don’t concern yourself with appearances, or doing the “right moves”, or bother with small talk-just dance! So fun!
My best friend and her husband are Poly. For them they are open. About everything with each other. They talk with each person who enters their space as a group. Both she and her husband must be happy with each partner brought in, even if only one of them is dating that new person. For them, cheating would be seeing someone and not talking. About it, or seeing someone who makes the other uncomfortable. Often, he’ll have partners that only he has, but she (as a Demi sexual) will have partners who they both are dating as she tends to date more women than men as she gets closer to women easier.
For myself, monogamy isn't a belief system--it merely suits me entirely--feel so natural to me. It doesn't feel restrictive nor confining and I don't believe one way is the right way for all. f my partner feels the need and desire for another sexually, I would be sad, but not hold them back, but it wouldn't work for me and I would bless their leaving for a relationship that works better for them. Totally agree with wanting to be a Separate and Individual Person and also the relationship being a Living Thing.
Exactly. His description of monogamy is just incorrect. It isn't about forcibly owning someone. It's two people deciding that they want to be exclusive because that is what they instinctively desire. You are free to pursue others even in a monogamous relationship. It just might mean the end of your current relationship. I think it takes a strong person to set up boundaries and leave if those boundaries are not respected. I feel like a lot of polyamorous people don't really desire to have multiple partners themselves, they are just afraid to lose their one partner if the don't allow them to be with others too.
John, it's very good to hear about your weight loss and new healthy self. I also lost almost 50 pounds after leaving an unhealthy relationship. It was as if my emotions were literally weighing me down. It took me 3 years to finally realize I actually lost the weight. Everyone else saw it but me. It's a syndrome called phantom fat syndrome. It's where your self image is still of the overweight person you were. John, check out my playlist on my channel for food. Everything you love is veganized. I miss nothing. I actually love all of my favorite foods even more because there is no cruelty involved. Might I recommend reading a book by Dr. Melanie Joy called "Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows". Think of it like this, is your body a temple, or is it a graveyard? Just something to think about.
Love Melanie Joy. I went vegetarian 10 years ago when I was still in the church, and my mother in law lost it. My family didn't blink an eye, but the TBMs in my life on my husband's side lost their 💩. I've been vegan for about 7-8 years and now my in laws are mostly vegan! They think I'm an apostate, but they've followed my example nonetheless 😉
AMEN to the nuance on drugs! I don't want them illegal in the traditional sense, but after reading some of Tell Your Children, I also say it can be some drugs are a terrible choice for some people. Psychosis + potent marijuana = potential violence. Drugs + trauma = potential addiction. These are my basic thoughts.
Yes it's very important one doesn't have any of these underlying issues or in their family before experimenting. P.S there is a mormons on mushrooms podcast + FB page that is good. I have researched a lot and 1st tried mushrooms over 10 years ago and in my opinion they are 1 of the safest & their is a lot of new research/studies/evidence online now that also backs up that its not "addictive" like other drugs can be, it's safe, & actually beneficial for the brain for various reasons. I really don't think mushrooms could be compared to anything else out there they are so unique.
Hey girl! It’s 965 E 3370 S in Millcreek. I ran the farm there last summer and pretty involved in the dance and garden community there over the last few years. Things dwindled quite a bit with covid but I hope to see the community revived this year!
@@SamanthaShelley ( Just felt a ripple of joy in the aether....That feeling when you meet another Terence lover....) Y’all are real and awesome. Thank you.
Here’s one: The translation process of the Book of Mormon was also a miracle. This sacred ancient record was not “translated” in the traditional way that scholars would translate ancient texts by learning an ancient language. We ought to look at the process more like a “revelation” with the aid of physical instruments provided by the Lord, as opposed to a “translation” by one with knowledge of languages. Joseph Smith declared that through God’s power he “translated the Book of Mormon from [hieroglyphs], the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event [he] stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation.”11 The Lord’s help in the translation of the plates-or revelation, so to speak-is also evident when considering the miraculously short time Joseph Smith took to translate them.12 www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/23soares?lang=eng
So right- monogamy is over rated!! I have had many sexual experiences and glad I have! I am also well past my child bearing years and my kids are grown. I do think that if you have children in the household it is important to consider their emotional health. They need to know their parents are both committed to them and their parents relationship matters
I clicked this so fast. Zelph was soooo positively influential to my faith crisis 2 years ago. They’re so incredible
M
The fact that Tanner and Samantha found each other in this world is the only thing that makes me think there might be a God. 😉 Love them. Their friendship truly brings me joy.
Me too! Love their dynamic.
Tanner is such a beautifully genius and imaginative person. Hearing him speak about these ideas is such a pleasure.
I felt the spirit hearing Tanner testify about psychedelics.
“It felt like going in to the holy of holies, walking up to the mercy seat, tearing away the veil and seeing yourself sitting there. And then laughing hysterically because it took you this long to realize that”. Gave me chills, so well said.
I’m Mormon who hasn’t left yet but am in the process and I’ve been taking them for a few years and it has been so helpful in exploring feelings and emotions and so many things.
Sam and Tanner pretty well killed my "angry phase" before it could even start. I'm not really into the spiritualism things that they've gotten into, but I still enjoy their work immensely. Loved their live streams of the Mormon Bachelor, even though it was obvious that Tanner was not loving that at all.
We had some overlap at BYU-I, and I wish that I had known them. Sam, Tanner, if you do read this comment, I just want to say thank you two for being so authentic and sharing that with the rest of us.
Knocking it out of the park lately with MS, John!! So much love for Sam & Tanner. I have listened to their original episode quite a few times. I found MS about 6 months before and I was deep in the muck when their episode aired. I remember feeling so validated by Sam's experience of being a teen convert, raised in a family without religion, going to a church school as a convert, etc. I think in that episode she talks about converts being sometimes more disaffected by having a faith crisis than lifetime members and that was a huge lightbulb moment for me. I had literally turned away from my secular upbringing, joined the church and put all my stock in it. So when my shelf broke, it was a massive, messy crash. My husband who was a lifetime member, barely even seemed phased by leaving. He was like "I always thought church was boring" and that was basically it! I was angry for months and anguished for quite some time, while he seemed fine. Sam talking about that really gave a voice to how I was feeling and that helped me a lot. Thank you, all 3 of you stellar, amazing humans, for this thought provoking and spirituality edifying conversation.
The original episodes you did 5 years ago happened during the peak of my faith crisis and were absolutely instrumental in me leaving the church and starting my life outside of it. Been following both Mormon Stories and Zelph on the Shelf since that day, and seeing the reunion here is amazing. Absolutely appreciate this now and it feels weirdly sentimental. Seriously, thank you so much for what you do and all of the work you have put in, looking forward to another follow up in 5 years!
Former born-in lifetime JW, now 51, and only lucky enough to find my way out and awake in my 40's--wanting to say these two beautiful souls speak for my experience and journey in and out of--and beyond--my religion/cult of birth. Thank you for all you do and share.
Have been out for about 5 years and I am still struggling to fill some of the voids that were created when leaving the church. This video left me feeling hopeful and excited for the future. Thank you to all involved.
Go look at Psycholofist - hope I got the name right. Just found him yesterday. Hope I got it right. So many young people are leaving the church and finding help with Mormon Stories and others doing the hard work of reconstructing their lives. Thank you John and Sam and Tanner! 👍🏾🇿🇦💜🙏🏾
@2:33:14 "A high-demand religion is organized to distract yourself from yourself." No truer words have been said. Absolutely true! Early-morning seminary, Mormon missions, getting married and having a family while you're still studying, Church callings, etc.
@2:39:20 "Getting out of a high-demand religion...is a major life accomplishment."
These two are ENDLESSLY delightful, feels like I'm in a conversation with old friends. Thanks for what you do Zelph and John!!
I'm just in the first few minutes of this and realizing I'm in the same spot Tanner was when he was so hopeless and searching for meaning. Then, he realized he was a creator and he needed to do something to actively create a life he loved. It's clicking for me and I think I'm realizing I am a creative type too. Thanks for sharing this part of his story💕 I love these podcasts, they're so so helpful in deconstructing faith and giving me hope for a future.
Came here from rewatching their original, and WOW you can see a visible difference in their level of joy.
Freedom looks good on you, Samantha and Tanner. Thank you for your contribution and your story.
♥️
“Passive consumer of a lifestyle fed to me by others”
What a great insightful turn of phrase, Tanner! I’ll be thinking about that for a while.
Sooo good. Thank you! I am a former JW and can entirely relate to everything Sam & Tanner articulated. And how they view life now--the philosophy and compassion that guides them--all of this reflects my experience. It took me a heartbreak and a breakdown before I woke up at age 43. I am now 51 and life is so good now, every day is such a gift, and my time is precious, leading me to find the sacred in the mundane, the deep joy in the small things. Thank you for articulating what is so similar to my journey.
The fact that you guys invite one another on your shows underlines your unity and makes you so much stronger. I'm loving it. ♥️
I'm a never-mo but was raised in another high-demand Christian sect. I love Mormon Stories and Zelph on the Shelf. This interview really spoke to me, especially talking about creativity as spirituality. I really resonated with a lot of their comments like about music and being such a self-critic. It can be hard to give myself permission to just do creative things because they bring me joy and reject toxic productivity. Anyways, I just wanted to say thank you to them and you, John, for sharing this with us. I hope you know it has an even wider, meaningful reach than just the ex/post/progressive Mormon community.
On a separate note, John, I really see and value the work you've put into the craft of interviewing. You've always been great, but I've noticed your growth over all the years. I appreciate your constant effort to learn more and improve. I see you looking out for power dynamics you might not have noticed before, seeking to elevate less-heard voices, and just overall being an active and empathetic listener. Keep up the great work!
Thank you Callie!!!
Agreed. I listen to Mormon Stories a lot & have noticed the same.
Well done for supporting these two John! They are both so talented and so helpful to others who may be struggling with a faith crisis.
Two outstanding young people who have so much to give and they are so genuine in everything they do. I love their humor and the silliness, I love their depth, integrity and tenacity, they are a shining light, a breath of fresh air.
Sam, Tanner and John thank you for all the wonderful work you do and Merry Christmas!🎄
Ahhh thank you!!!! 💜💜
5 years ago... wow. Their original interview with John was the newest episode when I found Mormon Stories, and the first material I consumed that was outside of the correlated material. Life has changed so much.
Thank you for addressing how finding out at a later age affects you emotionally thinking you’ve wasted your life. I just found all this out and 52. I’m not going through depression as of yet but am so angry thinking about the decisions I have made in my life that I could have made differently. Oh the possibilities that have been list. But it’s not too late to look within and find out my new self and what that means. Beautiful.
Love it Kim. Thanks for sharing that.
The anticipation... 😍
My husband and I enjoy both channels content.
Their first interview is still one of our favorites.
Beautiful interview with some beautiful souls. I bought about 5 new books on audible based on Samantha's recommendations. Thanks to all of you!
I discovered Mormon Stories because of Zelph on the Shelf. Discovered Zelph randomly through suggested video despite not looking for anything related to Mormonism.
I love what Sam said about sitting with your emotions. So important.
Glad I found this channel. So strange Samantha, I am also from Essex, UK but have a different story. You found religion in your teens. I grew up in Christianity, and went to Christian primary and senior school, which I did not have a good time at. But as a teen and early 20’s I was questioning the religion, went through periods of trying really hard to believe. Finally moved from the area, left Christianity, for me the best choice I have made, but it’s not easy. In my 30’s I finally cut ties with friends when they came down to visit and I got judged for living with my partner outside marriage. Being judged for what I was wearing as a woman.
Me: I have problems concentrating
Also me: Let’s watch a 3 1/2 hr RUclips video
These two wonderful souls have helped me so much. Love you both.
Tanner and Sam share more wisdom and love in this podcast than the mormon church can ever give you.
I swear this interview is what I needed to see right now. Great as always John, Sam and Tanner
I was just binging on Zelph on the shelf videos and watched their original podcast two days ago! Its great to see how they've grown :)
Buddhist thought and philosophy has been life changing! So healing!
as a gen z teenager, they do have gen z appeal
I'm not even Mormon but everything they cover is fascinating to me
So, the one out of the three of them that doesn’t drink, do pot, or do psychedelics was the one who came up with the name “Zelph on the Shelf”? A bit shocking.
I love Sam and Tanner! Also, when John mentioned creators that are making post mormon content, it made me think of a post-mormon embroidery page I follow. Please interview apostitch!!! I would love to hear her mormon story.
Yay!!! Its the perfect early Christmas gift. I love these two so much. I love getting a younger perspective on post-mormon life.
So do I! Old granny here. People like this got me through and back to a happy, healthy life. ❤️
I love you guys so much!!! Gorgeous, deep, wise, profound souls!!! You’ve all helped me so much on my journey out of Mormondom. Life is so amazing and full and joyful out in the wonderful universe. Keep up the amazing work !!
Favorite Mormon stories yet 🙌🏼 I adore these two and their beautiful friendship! Such great minds and souls.
Edit: also, Tanner is a fashion icon
@Mormon Stories Podcast -- John you are such an incredible resource to the ExMo and Mo communities. Thank you for consolidating so much ExMo/Mo Knowledge into one place. Your channel will continue to have so much success with content like this. Keep up the tremendous work!!!
Can't wait! Their humor and insights have been invaluable for me throughout my faith transition. ❤
Great conversation. I think the range of topics covered has been a welcome emotional/intellectual entree. Thank you to the three of you (and everyone behind the scenes).
“People are what life has made them to be...” - There is so much truth relating to free will and neuroscience wrapped up in that statement. David Eagleman and Sam Harris have spoken on those topics in such amazing detail. Thank you both for bringing those topics to light.
I love the story of the zelph on the shelf logo rebirth. It shows they're willing to take criticism, change something, and be open and honest about it. And it's beautiful!
My friend bought one of Tanner’s paintings. It’s very nice.
your friend is a hero
Where do we find some of this artwork for sale?
@@Foghorn-tr1je on instagram: @tannerg_art
I've got so much respect for all of you! You're all such great people!
John, you look and sound better! Well done, it really shows. Peace ✌️ and love 💜
Thank you for this!! I’ve always said that I’m not a creative, but I AM! I love to organize and I need to focus more on organizing for my creative outlet.
I found it really hard after my faith transition to cope with feelings of "what's the point any more" and also having just this massive, overwhelming fear of death.
As a mormon, I never feared death, I welcomed it. Looked forward to it even, because I thought it would be so much better than this life. But when I went through my faith transition and realised that there was no way to know what's going to happen when we die, I became terrified of it!
The thing that helped me, was something my husband helped me to realise: even when I was mormon, I most likely wasn't right about the after life because beliefs don't change reality. Reality is just... reality and being mormon doesn't change what's going to happen. Heck, if it's completely different to what you expected, being mormon might actually make it worse because then you'll be very confused!
I now compare it to when you're waiting in line to enter an exam hall. When you're in that situation, there's nothing more you can do. So you might as well just calm down and not stress about it.
The same thing applies to death. Death is going to happen, and there's nothing we can do to prepare for it. So we might as well enjoy the ride, do what helps you to feel fulfilled and greet death as a friend you just haven't met yet.
Before, I was living so I could enjoy death. But now, I'm living so I can enjoy life and its so much better!
😘😘😘😘
Totally related to Tanner saying “disordered eating”. I’ve used that term for over a decade! I was never diagnosed officially with an “eating disorder with capital letters” like he said. And it’s true for me also that the church played a big part. Anyways. Really enjoyed this episode. Thanks to all of you who participated!
damn this is so good. the three of you are each so astute and articulate. dont you think ex mormons embody the only truths of mormonism: kindness, generosity and honesty?
Thank you for talking about spirituality, sense of self, food, etc. I am currently on the journey to find what spirituality means to me which includes all those things, and I added The Power of Now to my book list. I don’t hear these topics talked about too much so I was very interested. It’s also very different when you come from a high-demand religion and have to teach yourself all of those things. Good episode!
John did get a glow up. New set and editing. Moving up in the world.
Just watched the song playlist on zelph on the shelf channel…what the hell it’s actually pretty good! More songs, I feel the spirit when I listen to your songs.
Love these two!! They should have cocktails and confessions with Heather Gay that would be soooo fun to watch!
👀
To quote Neil DeGrasse Tyson:
"A great challenge of life:
Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know you are wrong."
That's such a weird and difficult concept for Mormons and other religious people.
Personally, I like to believe on a God but that's not because I actually think God exists. It's because believing in a God helps me feel better. I know I'm probably wrong about my perceptions of what God is (or isn't), because I've never seen it!
Here's a link to their Patreon. www.patreon.com/zelphontheshelf
Nihilism is a road side pit stop on the way to deciding your own purpose.
Go Streisand Effect! Jonathan Streeter commented on another video that his TBM brother had never heard of John Dehlin nor the CES Letter until the Fair Mormon video aired and asked him about them.
Well, I am looking forward to eating ar Zest the next time I visit SLC.
You can see such a difference in Tanner's confidence since the last interview.
Omg!! I’m so excited about this!!!
The church finds vulnerable people and leverages their vulnerabilities to get them to join. There is even a priesthood session talk about it. A church leader was super impressed with how an Elder's quorum president was able to re-activate so many elders. He did it by waiting for the men to have a crisis and then gave them support, help, counsel - whatever they needed with church strings attached to it. This is also why third-world countries have insane conversion rates. This is how all cults work - prey on the vulnerable.
Everything about Tanner’s experience with nature, spirituality, and psychedelics speaks to my very core. What groups or communities in UT does he recommend?
This is a great episode to watch as I just put in a 2 weeks notice for my day job to work on my business! 😁
Was I the only one who had never heard of Zelph before? Been a Mormon all my life, just learned about it on Wikipedia. But this is evidence that Zelph on the Shelf is a great name, because even for people like me who totally miss the reference, it's super memorable and fun to say.
This was AMAZING. I love John and I love ZotS (I've been a proud though small Patreon supporter for a couple of years) and these two young people are who I want to be when I grow up!
i loved this whole podcast so much 💗💗 the ending was so wholesome 🥺
“Follow your own bliss...” - In a better world, that would be the topic given to Tanner to talk about during conference to the members.
It's also in a doctor Sues book "theirs a Zelph on my shelf".
Understanding and accepting, let alone leaving the Mormon Church and high-demand religions in general, requires intellectual, emotional, and moral courage; intellectually because accepting that it is not true is an immense intellectual realization to make; emotionally because dealing with the collapse of one's worldview and even identity is a painful emotional ordeal to go through; and morally because doing what is right by leaving and letting the consequences follow is the hard moral decision to make.
"Straight from the tapir's mouth" haha good one Tanner
I want to watch NOW!!!!
Tanner’s hair is just.... 😍
I would love to see links in the description to the episodes you are talking about. 💕
Yes!! Love these 2 ❤️❤️
John, you’re right. You’re stuffy and crabby and old-fashioned (and wonderful, though). 🤪 Go grab a beer and get back to us. 🍻
What a FANTASTICALLY UPLIFTING interview. I feel kinship with these fabulous exmo millenials, being a fabulous exmo millenial myself.
Evolving and growing is our jam. What a time to be alive.
Ever grateful for the many who went before us so that we can break free now.
Thank you, John. You do you. It’s changing the damn world.
Zelph on the Shelf is awesome, very funny, occasionally offensive, but that's what makes them great. Also, I love the bolo tie!
I, too, love ecstatic dance & dislike the bar scene.
I hope more people (post covid) can discover it. Shed your ego, don’t concern yourself with appearances, or doing the “right moves”, or bother with small talk-just dance! So fun!
I hope Zelf gets on TikTok!
Oh I have been waiting for this for so long! Yay! Super random, but @Sam where did you get you sweater? It's so cute.
I thrifted it but I think it’s by Kendall and Kylie at PacSun?! Haha
Great guests John! Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays all ❤️💚🎄
Wow thank you so much for sharing this❤
Loved this interview!
Omg yess!! Went to Zest for my 21st 🍸
My best friend and her husband are Poly. For them they are open. About everything with each other. They talk with each person who enters their space as a group. Both she and her husband must be happy with each partner brought in, even if only one of them is dating that new person. For them, cheating would be seeing someone and not talking. About it, or seeing someone who makes the other uncomfortable. Often, he’ll have partners that only he has, but she (as a Demi sexual) will have partners who they both are dating as she tends to date more women than men as she gets closer to women easier.
Love these two ❤️
For myself, monogamy isn't a belief system--it merely suits me entirely--feel so natural to me. It doesn't feel restrictive nor confining and I don't believe one way is the right way for all.
f my partner feels the need and desire for another sexually, I would be sad, but not hold them back, but it wouldn't work for me and I would bless their leaving for a relationship that works better for them. Totally agree with wanting to be a Separate and Individual Person and also the relationship being a Living Thing.
Exactly. His description of monogamy is just incorrect. It isn't about forcibly owning someone. It's two people deciding that they want to be exclusive because that is what they instinctively desire. You are free to pursue others even in a monogamous relationship. It just might mean the end of your current relationship. I think it takes a strong person to set up boundaries and leave if those boundaries are not respected. I feel like a lot of polyamorous people don't really desire to have multiple partners themselves, they are just afraid to lose their one partner if the don't allow them to be with others too.
Did I hear Tanner and Samantha say they moved to SLC to get away from Mormons? ;)
Salt Lake City is less than 50% Mormon. Logan is like 90%. Crazy I know!
John, it's very good to hear about your weight loss and new healthy self.
I also lost almost 50 pounds after leaving an unhealthy relationship. It was as if my emotions were literally weighing me down. It took me 3 years to finally realize I actually lost the weight. Everyone else saw it but me. It's a syndrome called phantom fat syndrome. It's where your self image is still of the overweight person you were.
John, check out my playlist on my channel for food. Everything you love is veganized. I miss nothing. I actually love all of my favorite foods even more because there is no cruelty involved.
Might I recommend reading a book by Dr. Melanie Joy called "Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows".
Think of it like this, is your body a temple, or is it a graveyard? Just something to think about.
Love Melanie Joy. I went vegetarian 10 years ago when I was still in the church, and my mother in law lost it. My family didn't blink an eye, but the TBMs in my life on my husband's side lost their 💩. I've been vegan for about 7-8 years and now my in laws are mostly vegan! They think I'm an apostate, but they've followed my example nonetheless 😉
It's like withdrawing from drugs... That helped, thanks :)
Just for future reference, Christmas doesn't start until December 25, and ends on January 6.
AMEN to the nuance on drugs! I don't want them illegal in the traditional sense, but after reading some of Tell Your Children, I also say it can be some drugs are a terrible choice for some people. Psychosis + potent marijuana = potential violence. Drugs + trauma = potential addiction. These are my basic thoughts.
Yes it's very important one doesn't have any of these underlying issues or in their family before experimenting. P.S there is a mormons on mushrooms podcast + FB page that is good. I have researched a lot and 1st tried mushrooms over 10 years ago and in my opinion they are 1 of the safest & their is a lot of new research/studies/evidence online now that also backs up that its not "addictive" like other drugs can be, it's safe, & actually beneficial for the brain for various reasons. I really don't think mushrooms could be compared to anything else out there they are so unique.
great conversation!
i want to visit this stake center turned hare krishna temple so bad one day. anybody got info on that?
im not tryna dox john dehlin so my insta is emmastarr444 if anybody knows anything! haha
Hey girl! It’s 965 E 3370 S in Millcreek. I ran the farm there last summer and pretty involved in the dance and garden community there over the last few years. Things dwindled quite a bit with covid but I hope to see the community revived this year!
Yo Sam is from Essex! That's so cool, same here :)
“Passive consumer of life...” - that’s very reminiscent of Terence McKenna’s advice to seek out the fulfilling life.
We love Terence McKenna!
@@SamanthaShelley ( Just felt a ripple of joy in the aether....That feeling when you meet another Terence lover....)
Y’all are real and awesome. Thank you.
@@renegade_of_funk 💜💜💜💜
@@renegade_of_funkwas just listening to ole uncle terry. love him
@@LuckySchmuckers The world is a better place for having had Terence in it. 🧡🍄🦍
The hat...all this time I thought he was promoting that vitamin patch MLM and those are like cults, so glad he mentioned that...
Does anyone know where I can find the Oaks quote Tanner mentioned softening the historical stand on the BOM?
Here’s one:
The translation process of the Book of Mormon was also a miracle. This sacred ancient record was not “translated” in the traditional way that scholars would translate ancient texts by learning an ancient language. We ought to look at the process more like a “revelation” with the aid of physical instruments provided by the Lord, as opposed to a “translation” by one with knowledge of languages. Joseph Smith declared that through God’s power he “translated the Book of Mormon from [hieroglyphs], the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event [he] stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation.”11 The Lord’s help in the translation of the plates-or revelation, so to speak-is also evident when considering the miraculously short time Joseph Smith took to translate them.12
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/23soares?lang=eng
Tanner the Stunner.
So right- monogamy is over rated!! I have had many sexual experiences and glad I have! I am also well past my child bearing years and my kids are grown. I do think that if you have children in the household it is important to consider their emotional health. They need to know their parents are both committed to them and their parents relationship matters
Enjoyed the episode - 12:50 am and I am going to bed LOL