An I've seen on RCBOs with earths is that the current flowing through the earth lead under normal operation can be significant, about 1.5mA ( think it was a Contactum unit) . I had an unusual setup for an art installation with about 25 lengths of mains LED tape that were underwater, with each feed was protected by an individual 6A RCBO. The leakage through the earths of all the RCBOs tripped out the 30mA RCD on the upstream supply. The RCBO functionality seemed to work fine with the earths disconnected so we just left them off.
I'm not sure the given explanation of how an rcd functions is complete. Yes, an rcd will trip if it sees less in the neutral than line, as when an earth fault occurs. However, it will also trip when there's more current in the neutral than the line conductor, as in a borrowed neutral scenario; again an imbalance in the core. I went to a property the other day with a split load board that had both RCDs tripping. Turned out it was a borrowed neutral problem. The line to a light was through one rcd while the neutral was through the other, so an imbalance in both cores, so both tripped.😀
Great video Joe. Things are changing that fast in the industry, it's difficult to tell what's coming next. But, this product from Schneider covers all bases. So until something better comes along, i'm sticking with them.
Here in Germany there is no functional earth at any RCD or RCBO available on the market. I think the functional earth is depending on the amount of electronic in the RCBO. In Germany we have RCD and RCBO which must operate without a proper power supply. Our RCDs also trip in an TNS System with disconnected main fuse if you connect N and PE. May be the efixx team could analyze the different reactions at tripping if the different terminals are not connected.
Yup, never seen that here. I've read this is used as some kind of reference. My guess was it could be connected to the test function of the test button and the resistor inside, that requires only a thin wire too. But it seems this is really only a reference for the electronics inside.
@@Marcel_Germann I think that functional earth is needed because in this RCBOs are using electronic to detect leakage current. In case of a Brocken N the RCBO function is out of order. So is gets dangerous. If there is an alternative path over PE, it is possible to design the electronic circuit redundant. In Germany this kind of RCBO is not allowed for fix installations any more.
Have a question. I have few IKQE RCBO and Loadcentre KQ in garage. Properly connected, i.e. reference earth wire to earth terminal. It happened during recent work on EVSE that L/N were swapped on the supply side. None of IKQE RCBOs has tripped. Took few days, before fault was noticed and rectified. Would it not be expected for RCBO with reference earth to trip when there is 220V between N and PE (and zero between L and PE)? Also could prolonged operation of RCBO under polarity reverse fault damage it? (not sure, but definitely there must be diodes and similar parts inside IKQE RCBO)? Found on internet that IKQE support "polarity reverse detection" - apparently not in my case.
Can somebody tell me (after some controlled-tests) that, will the RCBO Tripped off if the FE lead is being applied with voltages 'nearing' to Line voltage while both L & N are under normal operation??🤔 And also FE lead being applied voltages of equal/near to both L & N voltages under abnornal or loss of Incoming PEN (causing all three(3) terminals/leads namely L, N and FE to be of No Potential Difference anymore)??🤔 Is this FE merely a potential-reference lead, against L and/or N to 'watch out' for abnormal events to give it a more 'sophisticated tripping' for added protection??🤔
Interesting video well explained, I wish it showed the plug-in architecture a little more. I think at some point we're going to see all new electrical panels and consumer units where everything is a plug-in module. I'm not happy about some aspects of it and in another way I think the installation will be improved for the installer.
Checkout this video to see the PoN - NO MORE NEUTRAL FLY LEADS- Schneider Acti9 Three Phase Distribution Board with PON & ISOBAR - ruclips.net/video/e54ud_CIvEU/видео.html
Can you use non active earth and active earth type rcbos in same box ? Or they all must be same type ? For example if I'll use the ones without for lights and some device like water heater and then for the sockets it be with functional earth fly lead ? Is that all legal ?
For a long time, I've felt that there's a crying need for a Neutral busbar-style solution plus, with RCBOs with their functional earth, the same for earth. Acti9 looks to deliver all this ease of installation, but at a commercial price. When are we likely to see this kind of design trickled down into domestic CUs?
I wonder if this FE lead is monitoring potential-difference against L and/or N. Meaning FE cant tolerate Line Voltages otherwise it will signal it to trip?? Meaning also there should be some degree of potential-difference between all three(3) L, N and FE to rule out/give clearance of any impending abnormalities such as 'seeing live presense/hot' across all L, N and FE means fault in system??
Better idea maybe for the future is to get the DNO to install loss of neutral protection to domestic premises after all its on the DNO side!!!! Until this happens keeping installing loss of neutral protection because as with many things in the country the profit is put before maintenance of infrastructure.
It’s also worth considering why the recent update on foundation earthing has been put forward again cover potential issues on the DNO side like neutral drop out 😬
@@martinogrady6268 The suggestion from schneider is to disconnect the device before doing any IR testing, i would try to avoid these products personally.
If we lose the incoming neutral (PEN) to a property in a TN-CS then we’d also lose the earth that the functional earth lead is connected to which sort of defeats the object to me.
This is not always the case as that’s why parallel earths on the MET are essential to keep touch voltages down and to operate essential fusing devices.
I thought the colour for the functional earth was a cream? Well I'm pretty sure it's cream, as loads of data n telephone systems use cream for the functional earth's 🤔
Good point - Its a defined standard for telephone systems to use cream - I'm sure white for RCBO's etc is defined in a hidden corner of an expensive BS EN / IEC standard.
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Thanks Joe. As some others have commented on, it would be nice if you could explain the "function" of the "functional earth" or maybe its just me.
An I've seen on RCBOs with earths is that the current flowing through the earth lead under normal operation can be significant, about 1.5mA ( think it was a Contactum unit) .
I had an unusual setup for an art installation with about 25 lengths of mains LED tape that were underwater, with each feed was protected by an individual 6A RCBO.
The leakage through the earths of all the RCBOs tripped out the 30mA RCD on the upstream supply. The RCBO functionality seemed to work fine with the earths disconnected so we just left them off.
I'm not sure the given explanation of how an rcd functions is complete. Yes, an rcd will trip if it sees less in the neutral than line, as when an earth fault occurs. However, it will also trip when there's more current in the neutral than the line conductor, as in a borrowed neutral scenario; again an imbalance in the core. I went to a property the other day with a split load board that had both RCDs tripping. Turned out it was a borrowed neutral problem. The line to a light was through one rcd while the neutral was through the other, so an imbalance in both cores, so both tripped.😀
Great video Joe. Things are changing that fast in the industry, it's difficult to tell what's coming next. But, this product from Schneider covers all bases. So until something better comes along, i'm sticking with them.
Good to see a circuit diagram of a unit with a "functional" earth.
Here in Germany there is no functional earth at any RCD or RCBO available on the market. I think the functional earth is depending on the amount of electronic in the RCBO. In Germany we have RCD and RCBO which must operate without a proper power supply. Our RCDs also trip in an TNS System with disconnected main fuse if you connect N and PE. May be the efixx team could analyze the different reactions at tripping if the different terminals are not connected.
Yup, never seen that here. I've read this is used as some kind of reference. My guess was it could be connected to the test function of the test button and the resistor inside, that requires only a thin wire too. But it seems this is really only a reference for the electronics inside.
@@Marcel_Germann I think that functional earth is needed because in this RCBOs are using electronic to detect leakage current. In case of a Brocken N the RCBO function is out of order. So is gets dangerous. If there is an alternative path over PE, it is possible to design the electronic circuit redundant.
In Germany this kind of RCBO is not allowed for fix installations any more.
The best Quality EFIXX
Rcbos what is the function of a functional earth.... "it makes it work" 👍
No no no , it makes it Function 🙂
Great for explanation. It's even perfect if provided with some diagram to show the logic. Appreciate much!
Have a question. I have few IKQE RCBO and Loadcentre KQ in garage. Properly connected, i.e. reference earth wire to earth terminal. It happened during recent work on EVSE that L/N were swapped on the supply side. None of IKQE RCBOs has tripped. Took few days, before fault was noticed and rectified. Would it not be expected for RCBO with reference earth to trip when there is 220V between N and PE (and zero between L and PE)? Also could prolonged operation of RCBO under polarity reverse fault damage it? (not sure, but definitely there must be diodes and similar parts inside IKQE RCBO)? Found on internet that IKQE support "polarity reverse detection" - apparently not in my case.
Thanks Joe for excellent explanation 👍
Can somebody tell me (after some controlled-tests) that, will the RCBO Tripped off if the FE lead is being applied with voltages 'nearing' to Line voltage while both L & N are under normal operation??🤔
And also FE lead being applied voltages of equal/near to both L & N voltages under abnornal or loss of Incoming PEN (causing all three(3) terminals/leads namely L, N and FE to be of No Potential Difference anymore)??🤔
Is this FE merely a potential-reference lead, against L and/or N to 'watch out' for abnormal events to give it a more 'sophisticated tripping' for added protection??🤔
Still non the wiser😂😂
Interesting video well explained, I wish it showed the plug-in architecture a little more. I think at some point we're going to see all new electrical panels and consumer units where everything is a plug-in module. I'm not happy about some aspects of it and in another way I think the installation will be improved for the installer.
Checkout this video to see the PoN - NO MORE NEUTRAL FLY LEADS- Schneider Acti9 Three Phase Distribution Board with PON & ISOBAR - ruclips.net/video/e54ud_CIvEU/видео.html
Can you use non active earth and active earth type rcbos in same box ? Or they all must be same type ?
For example if I'll use the ones without for lights and some device like water heater and then for the sockets it be with functional earth fly lead ? Is that all legal ?
For a long time, I've felt that there's a crying need for a Neutral busbar-style solution plus, with RCBOs with their functional earth, the same for earth. Acti9 looks to deliver all this ease of installation, but at a commercial price.
When are we likely to see this kind of design trickled down into domestic CUs?
Wouldnt an RCD without FE trip if there is loss of N? As it would see current on the L but no current on N?
What happens if I do connect “Functional Earth” lead to Neutral Bar together with Neutral fly lead?!
If you lost the PEN on a TN-C-S system, the FE would do nothing, shirley? (unless you connected the FE to terra firma via a rod?)
I wonder if this FE lead is monitoring potential-difference against L and/or N.
Meaning FE cant tolerate Line Voltages otherwise it will signal it to trip??
Meaning also there should be some degree of potential-difference between all three(3) L, N and FE to rule out/give clearance of any impending abnormalities such as 'seeing live presense/hot' across all L, N and FE means fault in system??
@@piratedprivacy9052 That sounds good to me.
Better idea maybe for the future is to get the DNO to install loss of neutral protection to domestic premises after all its on the DNO side!!!! Until this happens keeping installing loss of neutral protection because as with many things in the country the profit is put before maintenance of infrastructure.
It’s also worth considering why the recent update on foundation earthing has been put forward again cover potential issues on the DNO side like neutral drop out 😬
why do you need a wire FE
Maybe it's just me but did he explain what the functional earth does I've watched it 2 or 3 times and I still don't get it
Wao👍👍👍🤝🤝
Nothing to do with the functional test then? Also can't do an IR test with that functional earth connected which can be quite irritating.
Never thought of that. How would you ir a board made up of these rcbo’s then?
@@martinogrady6268 The suggestion from schneider is to disconnect the device before doing any IR testing, i would try to avoid these products personally.
Hager RCBOs allow IR at the load side of the device without disconnecting. Much cleaner solution for 99.999999% of situations.
Hello sir
In our country usually we don't have earth in our electrical system
So the RCBO should it work correctly?
Yes provided it doesn’t need a functional earth to work the RCD
@@efixx Could you please elaborate this to me
If we lose the incoming neutral (PEN) to a property in a TN-CS then we’d also lose the earth that the functional earth lead is connected to which sort of defeats the object to me.
I think the functional earth will detect voltage and current if the neutral is lost on a TNC-S system and then disconnect
@@Spark101. I was hoping he was going to explain key information like that. Another disappointing video
This is not always the case as that’s why parallel earths on the MET are essential to keep touch voltages down and to operate essential fusing devices.
I thought the colour for the functional earth was a cream?
Well I'm pretty sure it's cream, as loads of data n telephone systems use cream for the functional earth's 🤔
Good point - Its a defined standard for telephone systems to use cream - I'm sure white for RCBO's etc is defined in a hidden corner of an expensive BS EN / IEC standard.
Lovely 😍💋 💝💖❤️
So you didn't explain anything really