I read both of Mr. Herman Wouk's novels and these series followed his novels closely and were well written, produced and especially acted! Historically accurate!
Generally accurate, although Wouk somewhat buys into the Good Wehrmacht myth promoted with success by Franz Halder. Historians have largely demolished that-the Wehrmacht was as murderous and complicit in war crimes as the SS.
Robert Mitchum has an aura, he is a Spencer Tracy type actor, so believable and men & women that I know can never get their attention on many others when he is in the film. He is right there with Tracy, Burt Lancaster, Holden and Glenn Ford. Remarkable actor and American. I have seen other series, The Richard Chamberlain ones amazing but something in this that I watch it over & over, never get tired of something so well put together. Length of it is great; I longed for another session/episode when the final one was done. Thanks RUclips for this excellence.
Among his admirable talents, Mitchum was absolutely terrifying as a villain (Cape Fear, The NIght of the Hunter). I agree he is on par with the other actors you mention. I cannot remember any of them taking on roles anywhere near as menacing.
@@valkyriesardo278 Burt Lancaster played villains in a few films, including "The Sweet Smell of Success" and "Seven Days in May." Neither were thugs but intimidating in their own way. I happen to be a Mitchum fan but I believe Lancaster to be one of the best American actors of the 20th century.
I am grateful to Herman Wouk for his masterpiece without which the movie could not have been made. The magic book and movie is that it will edify all generations who otherwise may never understand the foundation on which they stand.
I was born in 1935. When he died, FDR was the only president I had ever known. I have seen him portrayed on the screen many times but never ever as authentically as Bellamy.
It’s reprise of his Tony-award winning performance as FDR in Sunrise At Campobello (also a movie). Don’t miss him as the bird-calling rancher in Brother Orchid.
FDR was the greatest president, I wish he was the president today. He would fix all the country’s problems. He was a real American politician, for the people not for himself or money. He’d give congress and the current president an earful on what there job is and to get there act together. He wouldn’t be happy to see what is happening in America today. It’s too bad all those good men are gone. I’m 33 years old and appreciate what these men did for our country.
@@NguageTrains FDR was a ideolog socialist clown Jeremy. We did great things with our industrial might in spite of FDR not because of him.. For example the Great Depression lasted longer in our country than the rest of the world because of his "my way or the highway" fantacy economic policies. I call him an Ideolog because when face with certain economic situations that could have been fixed right away he kept to his failed "Party-Policies" that hindered economic growth. A great president he wasn't...Not our worst (Wilson, Carter, Obama, and Biden) but Not our best ! !
Yes, I'm now watching it for the second time. Due to these interesting comments needed to go back and watch for some of the details and found that it does not get old. I saying I am enjoying it as much this time as the first time.
What I like about watching this series so many years later on my computer is catching the nuanced looks the actors give one another when they're not speaking. I like catching those looks on my PC a short distance away, instead of from across a room. Having seen the original years ago, watching again makes it seem, almost, like something I had not seen, but also do remember Rhoda was a piece of work.
Agree with you on Robert Mitchum. A great actor and most wonderful in this film.. My favorite movie with him is " His Kind of Woman" . Nothing like this, but Jane Russell and Vincent Price make it extremely entertaining.
My mom and dad went thru these times. Mom worked on the homefront , dad was on a destroyer in the pacific , u.s.s. John d. Henley ( dd 553). He was a radarman. 3/c.
He basically saves the series, by making believable an impossible, indispensable 'Forrest Gump' character who is always right in the crucible of history.
I love this series Robert Mitchum and his adversary Von Roon were excellent and made the film.i think it is one of the best WW2 mini series ever I too think Natalie and her grandfather are entitled pompous people who just flit around like nothing is happening around them
Would you agree that the first book in the Henry Family Saga is better than the second one, but the second miniseries is better than the first. That's how I see it. Both the second book and the second series share the same flaw: Louis Henry survives. It's a sentimental detail that just doesn't fit the reality of the Holocaust. In the book, Wouk crawfished by pointing out that this was all just a work of fiction. In Wouk's last book he revealed he began the saga with the idea that the big climax would be the Battle of Leyte Gulf, but it's not a particularly compelling arc in either the book or the series. Pug rides around in his flagship as his superior Halsey kept racing after a decoy fleet while the day was saved by a few insanely brave small ships and second-line fliers---but we don't see any of this. Byron's only part is having an awkward breakfast with Pug. I was never impressed by Ali Macgraw. Jan Michael Vincent showed some chops in "Buster and Billy" and especially "The Mechanic", but not so much in "Winds". I doubt if Wouk was happy with either of these casting choices. But Houseman was spot on. He was supposed to be playing an obnoxious know-it-all and he did it superbly.
Love these scenes with RAF, PUG, Pam so many parts of this mini series. When I see the crews go up think of my.late uncl who was a Tailgunner in B-17S flying from England
I have the Books too ! The first ( Wind of War ) in Italian language end the second ( Remembrance of war ) in english language . What effort to read the second book !
@Iranian Bob Yes, I'm definitely going to read the books. A friend loaned me and already I have found the books to be superior to the TV series but that is frequently the case, yes?
I don't believe we even have TROLLS in here. If you don't like the movie, what are you effing DOING in the comments TO PART FIVE? Transparent troublemakers!
@@njmccormackgmail Exactly there was NO unity when it came to race, ot was the complete opposite. Writing from Britain. BTW the winds of war was first shown in Britain in September 1983 when I was sixteen.
@@maureenjackson2041 a nation is a people. Not a piece of land. English men get English mens rights. There is no unity between nations. When two nations share a country you have wars of supremacy. It is how man has behaved for 1000s of years. Now you have to share your country with another nation who hate you. Won't last long. Anglo saxons deserve a place to exist without another nation infringing on them.
Agree. That’s one of my favorite parts. Listen to the segment, starting at around 1 hr. 4 min. part when the Brig. Gen. Armin von Roon character, during the chess match, criticizes the U.S. for letting, in this case, the British spill their blood while the Americans stand on the sidelines. Kind of like the U.S. fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian-not that the U.S. should intervene militarily for any reason.
*It's a 'Story' alright...but as for 'well-told' as it pertains to reality?* *No* ( *If Wouk had known Einstein...what a sweeping epic that would be!* *Even now, Albert's role in 'saving democracy' is almost completely unknown* )
So agree Sir! And I don't know the producer, director, etc. Who were these ppl who made this experience, to say nothing of Herman Wouk writing the teleplay based on his book! Amazing production ~ flaws and all.
No matter how many times I watch this, I always wish that Jane Seymour had played Natalie in the first series as well. I don't know why Ali McGraw is so bad here. It's not like she's terrible in everything she's ever done. She's just really, really bad in this show. Horribly miscast. And if you watch the casting director's interview, he talks about how she was a pretty big "get" for them. It's so bizarre.
@@caomhan84 McGraw was a model and had acted in commercials when cast in Goodbye Columbus (1969). Neither that nor Love Story was particularly demanding, so she could get by on her presence despite having modest talent and little to no training. She had a couple of other hits in the 70s (The Getaway, Convoy) and still had something of a reputation when cast in The Winds Of War. WOW was massive undertaking, and ABC/Paramount wanted some bankable names in the cast. McGraw was a name, but plainly not up to the part. (There’s no way that she could have remotely credible in the Theresienstadt/Auschwitz sequences in W&R). Still, she connected with Vincent-another modest talent who got by on presence-and had a chemistry with him that Seymour and Hart Bochner simply didn’t have. Unlike McGraw, Seymour was a professional actor. I like to think that she would have brought some insouciance to the Natalie of WOW, but it’s hard to know. Chemistry is really important, and she would have acted rings around Vincent. It may be that WOW was better off with two (very) limited talents who connected than a superior actor who might well have found little in Vincent to work with.
In the book it is Pug who phones Pamela, and later in a scene in Washington (not in the series) says "I love you" before she does. This suggests a slightly different relationship to the TV series.
Well it is dramatized! I didn’t want to say thank you very very much for serving if it wasn’t for heroes like you we wouldn’t enjoy the freedoms that we have today.
I didn’t serve because, well frankly, I wasn’t even born yet! However, back to the topic at hand, this is just a dramatized film , about things behind the scenes of the actual battles and a lot of what was historically accurate. Not everyone was privy to what was being said and done! To me, the whole thing was a tragedy. Every war is. But WWI and WWII was especially tragic because of a diabolical maniac of a man! His ego was so big that he couldn’t fathom what lay ahead for Germany. He was also a coward! And every German man who lied their way into getting into the US were cowards as well!
I detest her. One of the worst characters in 20th century fiction. Her uncle is equally useless. I never understood how H.W. could write them so stupid.
Without any doubt this is my favourite mini series, this and War and Remembrance. I love the way it presents some rather boring and complicated politics, like Hitler's decision to invade Russia, in an entertaining way. A person can get an education in modern history while enjoying one of the finest pieces of television ever produced.
Yes including the fictional characters of Pug and that German general gives the audience the inside look at the secret information going down , you’re right very educational for me.
The smoke in front of the little tea house ... the guy's burning leaves. That used to be a thing, you'd rake leaves into a pile and them burn 'em. That was a standard way to get rid of things like that, burn 'em. In fact when I was a kid in Hawaii, on Portlock Road (home to many WWII vets) they used to have trash fires on the beach. I thought it was great fun, throwing things into the fire.
Why isn't Byron ever in uniform and Lisbon. I thought that was totally improper. So glad to see that Herman walk wrote the broke the screenplay.. I read his books more than once and I think he did a great job transferring it to film
Okay I'm among the vast minority who thinks Ali McGraw did a great job portraying the character. Although I always like Jane Seymour I thought she softened the character too much. Possibly that's a director decision but I don't think she was supposed to be easy to like. At least that's the way I see it.
I think that Slote had a fortuitous escape there can you imagine Natalie as a diplomats wife? She'd make Rhoda look demure and act like the sole of propriety.
Good point! Nathalie stated Leslie delayed marrying her because of career due to her Jewishness, but her brashness would have made things interesting as a diplomat’swife. She was no airhead like Rhoda, but she had no filter.
The lady Natalie Jastrow, played by Ali McGraw, is an absolute horror. She is supposedly engaged to one man, makes out with another guy, and just whatever she wants to do! She agrees to marry one and then another. She is really too much to put up with!
In the book, both her and Pamela Tudsbury were "free spirits" - rich college girls who ran around Europe f*cking and s*cking all through the 'Thirties. Dey was Stank Hoes. I would not have gone near either one of those b*tches.
Well, in Natalie's defense, she wasn't yet married to anyone. At least as part of the Henry clan she would have Pug and Rhoda to serve as excellent role models in the "remain faithful to your spouse" arena.
In my view, the best scenes in the whole series are of the American Navy entering Canadian waters to meet up with the British Prince Of Wales and Winston Churchill. That was a historic moment very well recreated.
Yes, as a WWII reenactor I really see all these war scenes as excellent re-enactments of those momemtous events. This February marks the 40th anniversary of the original air dates. I saw every episode as a13 year old kid really interested in this time period. I was then and I am now.
@@AnthonyCatella I agree. I think the TWW reanactments, including actual footage of events, is well done. And it's likely to be a more human interest introduction to these events many people will be able to appreciate. But it's best feature is something done BETTER than most histories: placing a few families in the midst of momentous events, and understanding how human beings actually lived as those events went on. However implausible it is for a Henry to wend his way through so many historic events, still people DID live through those events, and TWW helps place those events in a human perspective people can appreciate. I just got done reading Volume I and Volume II of Stephen Kotkins excellent biography of Stalin, and a mightily good story that is! Still, it's very useful to see how Henry comes in contact with Stalin and other personalities, placing that real history next to something more in understandable human terms. And it's always possible that those stories from TWW influenced me to read a formal and academic study of Stalin, too. So while some may dismiss TWW as fluff, I do not.
My father in law joined the navy in 1948 he started at the bottom and less than Ten years he was chief, then he went to OCS and became a officer he retired at commander he served 30 years that man was all navy, he was in electronic warfare on JFK and others, he is what we call a mustanger captain Henry reminds me of him…I miss him dearly
Those scenes in War and Remembrance of concentration camps will 1:36:40 haunt me the rest of my life. In no other movie has it had such an impact. Staggering. I heard that Wouk demanded this accurate portrayal before signing the contract for the series.
Joan Fordham, yes. Unfortunately, Leslie started out rather pompous and privileged to the manor born Ivy Leaguer. Like most of the younger characters they grow a great deal over the course of the two series, so in time Leslie’s character develops into one of conscience and courage. In fact, the scene in which he chastises his Quaker colleague for his conscience is ironic given how it all ends.
After seeing how it all turns out in war and remembrance. Watching the scene as byran and Natalie say farewell at the docks hits the feels as that will be the last time they see each other as love struck innocent lovers. Only a story but sad non the less.....
Novelists used to write entire novels in longhand. I believe Hemingway did, and a bunch of others. If you start out learning a good way to hold a pen, you should not get writer's cramp.
It is my understanding that Britain did pay off the lend lease bills about the 1970s or thereabouts. But they did pay it. Russia, on the other hand, did not pay their debt in cash. They paid in blood, a lot of it.
Here, I'll give you a dollar to hold off this bully from beating me up for a while. Once you have completely worn out his fist with your face, I'll be right there with you. You're gonna pay me back the dollar, right?
I know I am late to watching this but it just struck me in the scene with Stoller how much he reminded me of Hans Landa in the Inglourious Basterds!! That same smarmy acting - good though!
Thomas Dragt, They certainly don’t look those ages. Jan Michael Vincent was an awfully gorgeous 38. Many 20-somethings don’t look that good. Most of us never do.
Five years later when the sequel in the works Ali looked too old for the part and Jan had gained 50 pounds and been in several car crashes. So both characters were recast.
Not to mention the difference between Pug's age and "Thunder Road" Mitchell's. It may have been no coincidence that those two who you mentioned being replaced, were most often panned for their acting. Ali McGraw was not as bad as, say, the acting in the original _Lost in Space_ series, but.... And Byron looked like he was on Quaaludes the whole time.
Yes, cheesy. That is exactly it. Why in such a quality production did they have cheesy. A mystery to me. That and what would have been easily corrected errors in time and place ...
I guess they thought Ali is so cute (and at the top of her popularity) that no one would notice she didn't realize she wasn't still filming _Love Story_
Mitchum was a generation ahead of me. I was not a fan until this series, in part because he was so good in roles that I did not like. This is a truly great performance and how I will remember him.
@ 1:30:10-25, MP's Jeep is totally out-of-time-reference; Military-spec Jeeps were first designed & developed by Bantam in Nov 1940, and then after 2675 Jeeps were built it was phased into mass-production by Willy's and later Ford in mid-1941, mostly sent to Soviet Russia under Lend-lease, and more-broadly distributed for US and allied Mil use in Europe '42-45 (building a total of around 650,000!). At this time-period of the movie, Pearl Harbor hadn't yet occured and US was not yet in the war, other than lend-lease support, so for US to have had provided Jeeps for MP duty in neutral states like Portungal in late '41 would have been extremely unlikely, if not virtually impossible. This isn't even a quibble in such an excellantly written, produced, choreographed, well-acted and directed stellar dramatic production!
That isn't as far off, though, as Byron rushing to LaGuardia Airport _circa_ 30 years before it was called that. Why rush, he had PLENTY of time before there would even BE a LaGuardia Int'l Airport.
1:08:50 or so... "Under four eyes." In other words, "What we say now for the next several moments, it doesn't leave this room." Or... in today's popular talk," What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
SuperPat88- Pug had a ridiculous reaction to their pitch in the novel. The Germans weren't in any, way, shape, or form, asking him to commit treason. He should have simply stated, in no uncertain terms, why he couldn't be of any help to them and why, in reality, he was against everything they were suggesting. Instead he threw a hissy fit like a spoiled child. Ah, well, it was only a work of fiction.
William Anthony Pug was a fictitious character to allow the audience to see the inside of everything as was That Nazis Roon. Both were unrealistic as was Byron’s Character And that crazy as hell Natalie.
if this were a western, Pug would have been crossing the Delaware, chasing the British in new orleans. defending the alamo, owned a gold claim in California. was on the first iron clad. caught john wilks booth, Pug was everywhere.
I know when I first watched this.....a million years ago? Wow! Anyway, way back they could understand the accents, German or British. Now? Not so much.
Rhoda at 20.00 redeems herself and the performance. Not so flighty after all. "He is so Navy....That's Pug Henry for you." Puts the rest of the performance in a new context. Polly Bergen. I do love this show so.
Yes I loved that scene as well and I felt sorry for her. He left her at the alter waiting to bring his commanding officer to the airport? Polly Bergen was very good in this role.
Had to laugh when FDR sent 55 ships to England, saying they were old and we needed to get rid of them anyway. Still the same today: us and nato getting rid of old inventory while taxpayer funds new equipment. 😅😅😂
WOW! That scene at the end where Natalie is still standing on the dock @ daybreak is heart breaking to say the least. For as sure as war was, she didn't if or when she was see her loving husband again. WHAt a dramatic closing for Part V
I must be strange because the Natalie character irritated me throughout. I know she was meant to irritate viewer some of the time, but OMG she was always playing the field, keeping men on the hook, always looking for the best deal, switching at will, and the men putting up with it. She's attractive but jeez the men are portrayed as so weak. I had more sympathy for Hitler than Natalie. No loyalty whatsoever. Actually all the female characters had no moral character at all imo. Thankfully RUclips has fast forward.
That scene is almost identical to Roots: The Next Generations when Bertha is waving goodbye to Simon @ the train station after he enlisted in the army for the first WW. ruclips.net/video/LSPKDyxgd6I/видео.html 1:31:32
I wonder if all the people watching this associate what happened in 1939 - 1945 to what looks like is going on inn 2022 - 2023. This isn’t prophetic but it does describe events we are no seeing and it seems like the world is taking the Rhoda Henry/Professor Jasper attitude; ignore it, it’s not as bad as they say and it will all go away.
@@nhmooytis7058 Early 70s for me and it was 40c cheap. You got two movie parodies per issue and the other stuff. Well, where I lived, new movies took about a year to get to us. And MAD held off parodying a movie until it had made the rounds, but still soon enough that people would find the parody entertaining. About a year delay. So when the other kids could afford to see the movie, I could read the parodies in MAD (40c cheap!) and know what the movies were basically about and have some good wisecracks about them too.
@julianne remley. Rhoda definitely needs a time out for how she treats Natalie. In fact all Christians need to realize that even the bible prints a lie Jews didn't kill Jesus. His sellout of his own kind and Poncious Pilot Govenor General of Rome killed him.
@@nhmooytis7058 Afghanistan wasn't WW2, it was 2021! However, the amount of hardware we left all over the world post WW2 would have been insane if you didn't consider that bringing it back would have cost far more. Plus, liberated countries needed it for their militaries.
Well, Natalie, enjoy your trip to Italy and even more so the marvelous surroundings of Theresienstadt and Auschwitz. This character in the series makes me want to punch the screen sometimes.
The uniform that Goering wore was mostly light grey and sometime a darker grey version. This baby blue in this series is very weird. He did wear a lot of medals and some bling.
ron m Nah,he is a lot older than she is and tired out Better wait a bit Do’tget all you money out of the bank and blow it all at Christmas New Year is round the corner !
The Bed Should Have Been A'ROCKIN' ! ! ! But O'l Herman Wouk was a prude ! ! Nothing " Spicy" here.................But then again could you imagine a scene like that with Big BOB in it ? EEEEEEww. Some things you just can't Un-See and that could have been one of them ! ! ! Good thinking Herman ! ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Indeed. More so than “tell Reichsmarshall Goering from me to shove his Swiss bank account up his fat ass.” Though that was funny, it was undiplomatic and therefore out of character for Captain Henry.
Yes even though as a confidential informant for the president he might have found out some interesting information if he had went along with him for awhile. Of course tell the pres before hand lol. But as a fictional character his tough attitude added drama and hate for the Nazis.
I read both books back in the 1980’s and they were very well written by Mr. Wouk. I read and did back then anything I could about WW2 and the Holocaust, mainly the European theatre of war. This series was excellent, but the series War and Remembrance was even better. Jane Seymour as Natalie was a much better choice as Natalie in my opinion. She was/is a much better actress and portrayed Natalie as the way the character should be, a strong, loving woman who survives Auschwitz with her son.
In the book, it is explained that Natalie had been pursuing Sloat for years and had even proposed to him. His only objection to marrying her was that her being a Jew would adversely affect his career.
With all due respect, I don't feel sorry for Leslie Slote because he had the chance to marry her but he chose to put society's anti-Semitism and his own career ambitions ahead of her. Natalie had proposed marriage to him but he turned her down because he was afraid it would have a bad effect on his Foreign Service career since, especially in those days, the Foreign Service, the State Department and other government agencies were a majority (if not totally!) made up of WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) and racism & anti-Semitism was RAMPANT among these groups. Its also one of the reasons why, in addition to refusing to increase immigration quotas (even temporarily!) to give Jewish people safe haven from the Nazis, on top of that, in the several years prior to World War II, it is estimated that LESS THAN HALF of even the 20,000 AUTHORIZED immigration slots per year were filled. Not only that, but the US government even refused to pass a bill (the Wagner-Rogers Bill) that would have allowed 20,000 unaccompanied children to come to the US, kind of like the British "Kindertransport" program which enabled over 10,000 Jewish children to escape to England from Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia & Poland which saved their lives. But the US State Department among others refused to accept a similar program, not even to SAVE THE LIVES of the CHILDREN. So given this kind of atmosphere, the potential negative effect of Leslie having a Jewish wife, is why he didn't want to marry Natalie when she loved him and proposed to him. But then as soon as she started falling in love with Byron, that's when he suddenly decided that he wanted her, when she was no longer his to have. It's kind of like that old joke, "I want whatever apple that my brother Tommy wants to have!". Basically, it was NOT Natalie who "gave him the runaround" it was LESLIE who CHOSE to refuse Natalie when she was totally in love with him in Paris. He was the one who left her heartbroken by turning her down when she proposed to him. Which is actually why she went to work for her Uncle Aaron in the first place. Which is why I absolutely do NOT feel sorry for Slote. Leslie didn't want Natalie when she loved him and wanted to marry him, and only when she and Byron were getting serious about each other then all of a sudden he has a change of heart, and expects Natalie to just jump to his call and drop everything to run back to him. That being said, if Leslie had not turned Natalie down when she had proposed, Natalie might never have gone to work for Aaron, and gotten to know him and become so attached to him -- and maybe then she would NOT have gotten trapped in Nazi Europe, and Leslie wouldn't have ended up the way he did! So no, I do NOT feel sorry for Leslie one bit. He brought it on himself, as well as Natalie, and maybe even Aaron also (because if he and Natalie had been married, he might have had more power to get Aaron out of Europe in time, with Natalie actually being his wife and Aaron being her biological family)
Dukes wasn’t Jewish. Ali is half Jewish, as were Houseman (birth name Haussmann), and Anton Diffring who played Von Ribbentrop. Topol was Jewish from Israel. Ferdy Mayne, Herr Rosenthal, was also Jewish.
@@nhmooytis7058 I'm not talking. It's called writing. I never wrote about the actors (personal beliefs or religions) who played the characters they portrayed. Perhaps if you want to initiate an argument, you could start with Meryl Streep. She was raised a Presbyterian. She played a Jewish mother. She was acting!! My initial comment seems to have gone over your head.
Charlie Smith, my sense is that too many people perceive the outcome of the Second World War as inevitable, when it wast and the people living it had no better sense of what tomorrow will bring than we do today amidst our own crises. It is interesting to read period diaries because as the reader you know what will happen, but the diarist is living and recording the drama as it unpredictably unfolds day by day with little sense of what direction history will go.
What you bring up, is the most essential thing to know about ww2. Imagine that war fought with the german military leadership actually leading the war, and not the nazi party leadership that hatched disaster after disaster. The guys in OKW were brilliant. With them at the helm, Germany would not have beaten. World history would have looked very different.
They built Adolph to be a cult leader, then they believed their own puppet was the master they had told the masses he was. Cults are absolutely fascinating!
There is something wrong: The last episode ended with the bombing plane with the american navy officer onboard as observer was going to land in France, and the pilots asked him how his french is. In this episode, we just see him back in safety in England of USA! Isn't ehere an episode which is missing?
I read both of Mr. Herman Wouk's novels and these series followed his novels closely and were well written, produced and especially acted! Historically accurate!
Generally accurate, although Wouk somewhat buys into the Good Wehrmacht myth promoted with success by Franz Halder. Historians have largely demolished that-the Wehrmacht was as murderous and complicit in war crimes as the SS.
Wouk did the screenplay.
Try "The Caine Mutiny" if you haven't already. Both teh book and movie are great.
@@jimsilvey5432 I agree
@@PaulGoodeK Here's the OTHER jewish narrative, only fair to hear the flip-side of the coin...... ruclips.net/video/-dRd3Ajiu4Q/видео.html
This is the very definition of epic.
Robert Mitchum has an aura, he is a Spencer Tracy type actor, so believable and men & women that I know can never get their attention on many others when he is in the film. He is right there with Tracy, Burt Lancaster, Holden and Glenn Ford. Remarkable actor and American.
I have seen other series, The Richard Chamberlain ones amazing but something in this that I watch it over & over, never get tired of something so well put together. Length of it is great; I longed for another session/episode when the final one was done. Thanks RUclips for this excellence.
Among his admirable talents, Mitchum was absolutely terrifying as a villain (Cape Fear, The NIght of the Hunter). I agree he is on par with the other actors you mention. I cannot remember any of them taking on roles anywhere near as menacing.
@@valkyriesardo278 Burt Lancaster played villains in a few films, including "The Sweet Smell of Success" and "Seven Days in May." Neither were thugs but intimidating in their own way. I happen to be a Mitchum fan but I believe Lancaster to be one of the best American actors of the 20th century.
Chamberlain is a wimp, unbelievable. This was a good platform for Mitchum
I like the way Roosevelt used him as a confidential informant like the police and CIA uses. He was a fictional character but interesting.
@@ronniebishop2496
Its a pile of rubbish.
I am grateful to Herman Wouk for his masterpiece without which the movie could not have been made. The magic book and movie is that it will edify all generations who otherwise may never understand the foundation on which they stand.
Beautifully stated! Powerful!
well most of it is propaganda . some "foundation"
@@josephagnello9335 ) ppl popping p ppl0p0
But our children don't read doorstopper books like that anymore.
No one could Play Roosevelt better than Ralph Bellamy ❤
I've seen this seres so many times, and when I see a photo of the real FDR I'm like "who is that guy?" 😂
Great mini series. Ive seen many war movies. This is a classic. I always loved
Robert
Mitchum. Great actor. So cool❤
I was born in 1935. When he died, FDR was the only president I had ever known. I have seen him portrayed on the screen many times but never ever as authentically as Bellamy.
He seemed to have the correct altitude and attitude, didn't he?
How so? Is there a scene where Stalin makes a berk out of FDR?
It’s reprise of his Tony-award winning performance as FDR in Sunrise At Campobello (also a movie). Don’t miss him as the bird-calling rancher in Brother Orchid.
FDR was the greatest president, I wish he was the president today. He would fix all the country’s problems. He was a real American politician, for the people not for himself or money. He’d give congress and the current president an earful on what there job is and to get there act together. He wouldn’t be happy to see what is happening in America today. It’s too bad all those good men are gone. I’m 33 years old and appreciate what these men did for our country.
@@NguageTrains FDR was a ideolog socialist clown Jeremy. We did great things with our industrial might in spite of FDR not because of him.. For example the Great Depression lasted longer in our country than the rest of the world because of his "my way or the highway" fantacy economic policies. I call him an Ideolog because when face with certain economic situations that could have been fixed right away he kept to his failed "Party-Policies" that hindered economic growth. A great president he wasn't...Not our worst (Wilson, Carter, Obama, and Biden) but Not our best ! !
I too watched it on TV in 83, I'm 83 now! what a joy. from Pittsburgh PA
I have to say that the WINDS OF WAR is the greatest TV Miniseries ever on tv, with Shogun #2.😊
This is an excellent series, nice to be able to watch episode one after the other. Good work
Yes, I'm now watching it for the second time. Due to these interesting comments needed to go back and watch for some of the details and found that it does not get old. I saying I am enjoying it as much this time as the first time.
I had to go find #5 it went from 4 to 6
Daniel Paulsness it is best to use the playlist from the channel.
What I like about watching this series so many years later on my computer is catching the nuanced looks the actors give one another when they're not speaking. I like catching those looks on my PC a short distance away, instead of from across a room. Having seen the original years ago, watching again makes it seem, almost, like something I had not seen, but also do remember Rhoda was a piece of work.
Yes,I agree 100%
Yes Rhoda is a real piece of work on top of being immature and narcissistic she’s a slut.
Agree with you on Robert Mitchum. A great actor and most wonderful in this film.. My favorite movie with him is " His Kind of Woman" . Nothing like this, but Jane Russell and Vincent Price make it extremely entertaining.
My mom and dad went thru these times. Mom worked on the homefront , dad was on a destroyer in the pacific , u.s.s. John d. Henley ( dd 553). He was a radarman. 3/c.
Robert Mitchum 🥰 Don’t make em like him anymore ♥️
He basically saves the series, by making believable an impossible, indispensable 'Forrest Gump' character who is always right in the crucible of history.
@@hermitcrabbot i
You need a focus, a pivotal character as an observer to history to make it personal. That is Victor.
I love this series
Robert Mitchum and his adversary Von Roon were excellent and made the film.i think it is one of the best WW2 mini series ever
I too think Natalie and her grandfather are entitled pompous people who just flit around like nothing is happening around them
In the novels, Henry and Roon never met. Roon’s character was shown exclusively through his strategic analysis of WW2 in a book that Henry translated.
Agree that these scenes are consistently strong and that Mitchum and Kemp are very good together.
Dont forget John Housemans portrayal. You can see class oozing from his acting. goes well together with Mitchum and Von Roon
The "Natalie" character is the weakest of all the main characters.
Would you agree that the first book in the Henry Family Saga is better than the second one, but the second miniseries is better than the first. That's how I see it. Both the second book and the second series share the same flaw: Louis Henry survives. It's a sentimental detail that just doesn't fit the reality of the Holocaust. In the book, Wouk crawfished by pointing out that this was all just a work of fiction.
In Wouk's last book he revealed he began the saga with the idea that the big climax would be the Battle of Leyte Gulf, but it's not a particularly compelling arc in either the book or the series. Pug rides around in his flagship as his superior Halsey kept racing after a decoy fleet while the day was saved by a few insanely brave small ships and second-line fliers---but we don't see any of this. Byron's only part is having an awkward breakfast with Pug.
I was never impressed by Ali Macgraw. Jan Michael Vincent showed some chops in "Buster and Billy" and especially "The Mechanic", but not so much in "Winds". I doubt if Wouk was happy with either of these casting choices. But Houseman was spot on. He was supposed to be playing an obnoxious know-it-all and he did it superbly.
Love these scenes with RAF, PUG, Pam so many parts of this mini series. When I see the crews go up think of my.late uncl who was a Tailgunner in B-17S flying from England
Many thanks to your grandfather if it weren’t for heroes like him we would enjoy the freedoms that we have today.
Winds of war what a great show
The right movie to see on x-mas evening!!
In case you haven't heard, Herman Wouk, author of the Winds of War died a week and a half ago. He was 103 years old.
Eye wkid eww sfqqttf
@@joehaskew5679 What?
Married officers get more allowance
Thanks. I hadn’t heard. Another masterpiece of his was The Caine Mutiny.
@@marthacanady9441 You mean you didn't know that Wouk died four years ago?
"Some hours of joy weigh against a whole lifetime, don't they?"
Yes, they do Pamela. Yes, they do.
and to think Pugs son would be the pilot of Air Wolf 40 years later he must be so proud.
Many thanks for the upload. I appreciate you bringing this great series to me
Terrific story from a great writer, I have both books in my library of WWII history.
I have the Books too ! The first ( Wind of War ) in Italian language end the second ( Remembrance of war ) in english language . What effort to read the second book !
@Iranian Bob Yes, I'm definitely going to read the books. A friend loaned me and already I have found the books to be superior to the TV series but that is frequently the case, yes?
@@josfitz +++
jos fitz usually the book author doesn't write the screenplay, so this one is far more like the book than most.
I don't believe we even have TROLLS in here. If you don't like the movie, what are you effing DOING in the comments TO PART FIVE? Transparent troublemakers!
In the 1940s and 1950s we were a United country to be proud of.
Then the elites killed JFK, and we began to awaken from the dream.
You looked that you were.🇦🇷
Oh right, civil rights for all?
@@njmccormackgmail
Exactly there was NO unity when it came to race, ot was the complete opposite.
Writing from Britain.
BTW the winds of war was first shown in Britain in September 1983 when I was sixteen.
@@maureenjackson2041 a nation is a people. Not a piece of land. English men get English mens rights. There is no unity between nations. When two nations share a country you have wars of supremacy. It is how man has behaved for 1000s of years. Now you have to share your country with another nation who hate you. Won't last long. Anglo saxons deserve a place to exist without another nation infringing on them.
although from a novel a great accurate historical record of events that so many these days try to rewrite, forget or ignore.
1:12:56 Pug's refusal of the bribe is epic.
"You have asked me to commit treason for money".
Imagine the weasels in DC showing this kind of integrity.
There isn't a politician who wouldn't commit treason as long as he or she got paid well for it.
And he told him to go to hell. Yes, how desperatly do we need persons of high integrity TODAY!
You think that Jamie Raskin would say anything other than “go to hell”? Grow up.
Agree. That’s one of my favorite parts. Listen to the segment, starting at around 1 hr. 4 min. part when the Brig. Gen. Armin von Roon character, during the chess match, criticizes the U.S. for letting, in this case, the British spill their blood while the Americans stand on the sidelines. Kind of like the U.S. fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian-not that the U.S. should intervene militarily for any reason.
Sounds like you been propositioned for oral sex when you were serving....😮
Admit it. For all its flaws, it is a good story, well told.
*It's a 'Story' alright...but as for 'well-told' as it pertains to reality?* *No*
( *If Wouk had known Einstein...what a sweeping epic that would be!* *Even now, Albert's role in 'saving democracy' is almost completely unknown* )
So agree Sir! And I don't know the producer, director, etc. Who were these ppl who made this experience, to say nothing of Herman Wouk writing the teleplay based on his book! Amazing production ~ flaws and all.
No doubt about it. But it’s fun ragging on Ali McGraw!
No matter how many times I watch this, I always wish that Jane Seymour had played Natalie in the first series as well. I don't know why Ali McGraw is so bad here. It's not like she's terrible in everything she's ever done. She's just really, really bad in this show. Horribly miscast. And if you watch the casting director's interview, he talks about how she was a pretty big "get" for them. It's so bizarre.
@@caomhan84 McGraw was a model and had acted in commercials when cast in Goodbye Columbus (1969). Neither that nor Love Story was particularly demanding, so she could get by on her presence despite having modest talent and little to no training. She had a couple of other hits in the 70s (The Getaway, Convoy) and still had something of a reputation when cast in The Winds Of War. WOW was massive undertaking, and ABC/Paramount wanted some bankable names in the cast.
McGraw was a name, but plainly not up to the part. (There’s no way that she could have remotely credible in the Theresienstadt/Auschwitz sequences in W&R). Still, she connected with Vincent-another modest talent who got by on presence-and had a chemistry with him that Seymour and Hart Bochner simply didn’t have.
Unlike McGraw, Seymour was a professional actor. I like to think that she would have brought some insouciance to the Natalie of WOW, but it’s hard to know. Chemistry is really important, and she would have acted rings around Vincent. It may be that WOW was better off with two (very) limited talents who connected than a superior actor who might well have found little in Vincent to work with.
In the book it is Pug who phones Pamela, and later in a scene in Washington (not in the series) says "I love you" before she does. This suggests a slightly different relationship to the TV series.
“Now is the time to settle with Russia”. Crazy how that line is relevant today.
As a man who fought in World War II, this movie doesn’t betray the reality of what really happened
I cared for my uncle before his death. He never recovered from WW2 but his love for our country was still there.
Well it is dramatized! I didn’t want to say thank you very very much for serving if it wasn’t for heroes like you we wouldn’t enjoy the freedoms that we have today.
I'm sure it was 10 times worse respect to all vetrans of wars
yeah it's like everyone sat around drinking coffee
I didn’t serve because, well frankly, I wasn’t even born yet! However, back to the topic at hand, this is just a dramatized film , about things behind the scenes of the actual battles and a lot of what was historically accurate. Not everyone was privy to what was being said and done!
To me, the whole thing was a tragedy. Every war is. But WWI and WWII was especially tragic because of a diabolical maniac of a man! His ego was so big that he couldn’t fathom what lay ahead for Germany. He was also a coward! And every German man who lied their way into getting into the US were cowards as well!
Natalie has the common sense of a parsnip.
overstated!
Totally agree. She's hard to watch.
I detest her. One of the worst characters in 20th century fiction. Her uncle is equally useless. I never understood how H.W. could write them so stupid.
Ali MacGraw portrayed Natalie like a dumbass. Jane Seymour was the superior Natalie in War & Remembrance.
they sure don't make movie's like this anymore, that's sad.
But Babylon Berlin is just as good! Made in Germany, starts in 1929. Not sure if you can watch it in English.
Without any doubt this is my favourite mini series, this and War and Remembrance. I love the way it presents some rather boring and complicated politics, like Hitler's decision to invade Russia, in an entertaining way. A person can get an education in modern history while enjoying one of the finest pieces of television ever produced.
Yes including the fictional characters of Pug and that German general gives the audience the inside look at the secret information going down , you’re right very educational for me.
At least they TRY to follow written historical account and animate it. Now-a-days we got Drumpf and the poor portaryal by Maqarading MajorMedia.
@@desidaru1118 What? lol 😂
@@ronniebishop2496 Merry Christmas! And a Happy New Year! Oooop..... sirens blowing, typical Christmas Eve. :( Bah Humbug!
@@desidaru1118 Merry Christmas to you and have a happy New year 🎊
The end had me in tears...🙈 I don't know what's with this series, that I just see myself in it back then.....
Reincarnation?
IT WAS A GREAT SERIES WITH SOME FINE ACTORS
The smoke in front of the little tea house ... the guy's burning leaves. That used to be a thing, you'd rake leaves into a pile and them burn 'em. That was a standard way to get rid of things like that, burn 'em. In fact when I was a kid in Hawaii, on Portlock Road (home to many WWII vets) they used to have trash fires on the beach. I thought it was great fun, throwing things into the fire.
Why isn't Byron ever in uniform and Lisbon. I thought that was totally improper. So glad to see that Herman walk wrote the broke the screenplay.. I read his books more than once and I think he did a great job transferring it to film
Don’t think he was even supposed to be there, was he?
Mrs Henry's marriage reflections after the tea party of her and Palmer are a day late and a dollar short.
Okay I'm among the vast minority who thinks Ali McGraw did a great job portraying the character.
Although I always like Jane Seymour I thought she softened the character too much. Possibly that's a director decision but I don't think she was supposed to be easy to like. At least that's the way I see it.
I liked Ali, too!
Agree!
I think that Slote had a fortuitous escape there can you imagine Natalie as a diplomats wife? She'd make Rhoda look demure and act like the sole of propriety.
Good point! Nathalie stated Leslie delayed marrying her because of career due to her Jewishness, but her brashness would have made things interesting as a diplomat’swife. She was no airhead like Rhoda, but she had no filter.
Soul
he sure did, total loser. he can do Waaaaaaaay better.
@@scottweisel3640didn't like her at all, not good portrayal.
No. I have known a few. They are very well raised, discreet and agreeable.
Herman Wouk passed away May 17th 2019, aged 103.
The lady Natalie Jastrow, played by Ali McGraw, is an absolute horror. She is supposedly engaged to one man, makes out with another guy, and just whatever she wants to do! She agrees to marry one and then another. She is really too much to put up with!
everything she was in here was put there by terrible writing and lackluster acting
Yes, I agree. Don’t like her acting anyway always that sky look and nose up I. The air.
In the book, both her and Pamela Tudsbury were "free spirits" - rich college girls who ran around Europe f*cking and s*cking all through the 'Thirties. Dey was Stank Hoes. I would not have gone near either one of those b*tches.
McGraw portrays Natalie as a real prick-teaser.
Neither McGraw nor Vincent had the acting chops to pull off Byron and Natalie in War and Remembrance.
Well, in Natalie's defense, she wasn't yet married to anyone. At least as part of the Henry clan she would have Pug and Rhoda to serve as excellent role models in the "remain faithful to your spouse" arena.
In my view, the best scenes in the whole series are of the American Navy entering Canadian waters to meet up with the British Prince Of Wales and Winston Churchill. That was a historic moment very well recreated.
Yes, as a WWII reenactor I really see all these war scenes as excellent re-enactments of those momemtous events. This February marks the 40th anniversary of the original air dates. I saw every episode as a13 year old kid really interested in this time period. I was then and I am now.
@@AnthonyCatella
I agree. I think the TWW reanactments, including actual footage of events, is well done. And it's likely to be a more human interest introduction to these events many people will be able to appreciate.
But it's best feature is something done BETTER than most histories: placing a few families in the midst of momentous events, and understanding how human beings actually lived as those events went on.
However implausible it is for a Henry to wend his way through so many historic events, still people DID live through those events, and TWW helps place those events in a human perspective people can appreciate.
I just got done reading Volume I and Volume II of Stephen Kotkins excellent biography of Stalin, and a mightily good story that is! Still, it's very useful to see how Henry comes in contact with Stalin and other personalities, placing that real history next to something more in understandable human terms. And it's always possible that those stories from TWW influenced me to read a formal and academic study of Stalin, too. So while some may dismiss TWW as fluff, I do not.
Slote is a glutton for punishment and Natalie makes fools of them all.
I really wanted her character to end up in that concentration camp and not the other lady.
@@ronniebishop2496 she does on war and remember
@@christinamccarthy8683 Well Not Ali McGraw. I wanted to see how tough she was then, instead of meek Jane Seymour.
My father in law joined the navy in 1948 he started at the bottom and less than Ten years he was chief, then he went to OCS and became a officer he retired at commander he served 30 years that man was all navy, he was in electronic warfare on JFK and others, he is what we call a mustanger captain Henry reminds me of him…I miss him dearly
They dont like let those Mustangs make O-6
@@PlateletRichGel that is for sure..he couldn't go higher than Commander
Great series of what is with this war of relationships and hatred
The blond German, Karl Otto Alberty, was the tank driver in Kelly’s Heroes!
A very enjoyable show.
Thanks for upload, I don’t care much for inconsistency just love the movie !
Great mini series along with war and remembrance
Those scenes in War and Remembrance of concentration camps will 1:36:40 haunt me the rest of my life. In no other movie has it had such an impact. Staggering. I heard that Wouk demanded this accurate portrayal before signing the contract for the series.
Oh,poor Leslie Who could prefer the callow youth to this courageous,intelligent,selfless,loving man
Joan Fordham, yes. Unfortunately, Leslie started out rather pompous and privileged to the manor born Ivy Leaguer. Like most of the younger characters they grow a great deal over the course of the two series, so in time Leslie’s character develops into one of conscience and courage. In fact, the scene in which he chastises his Quaker colleague for his conscience is ironic given how it all ends.
inkyguy Thank you
Slote becomes a true hero in War and Remembrance!
After seeing how it all turns out in war and remembrance. Watching the scene as byran and Natalie say farewell at the docks hits the feels as that will be the last time they see each other as love struck innocent lovers. Only a story but sad non the less.....
The ending of this episode just kills me every time 🥺😭💕
The scene at the Concentration Camp and the Dutch Jews and Momma taking her little girl to follow her..GETS ME every time. The tears that flow..
Me, too.
I'm paused about halfway in... I'm surprised Natalie and Byron don't start complaining of "writer's cramp" by now.
Novelists used to write entire novels in longhand. I believe Hemingway did, and a bunch of others. If you start out learning a good way to hold a pen, you should not get writer's cramp.
I was only ten but I was there and they did drink a lot.
It is my understanding that Britain did pay off the lend lease bills about the 1970s or thereabouts. But they did pay it. Russia, on the other hand, did not pay their debt in cash. They paid in blood, a lot of it.
Here, I'll give you a dollar to hold off this bully from beating me up for a while.
Once you have completely worn out his fist with your face, I'll be right there with you.
You're gonna pay me back the dollar, right?
Too bad those fuckers didn't pay in more.
46:42 I love it how he types so diligently using only two fingers :D such attention to detail really ads value
This is a great series. I really enjoyed viewing it. 😀
I've developed a high regard for a London alley 🐈
Now it's great acting and wonderful story.
This should be required in high school history
I know I am late to watching this but it just struck me in the scene with Stoller how much he reminded me of Hans Landa in the Inglourious Basterds!! That same smarmy acting - good though!
1.04 .20 The best description of the US role in WWII that I have ever heard.
Natalie is supposed to be 27, Ali McGraw was 44. Byron was supposed to be 25, Jan Micheal Vincent was 38
Thomas Dragt, They certainly don’t look those ages. Jan Michael Vincent was an awfully gorgeous 38. Many 20-somethings don’t look that good. Most of us never do.
Just enjoy it for what it is.
The casting was terrible for those two, especially Ali McGraw.
Five years later when the sequel in the works Ali looked too old for the part and Jan had gained 50 pounds and been in several car crashes. So both characters were recast.
Not to mention the difference between Pug's age and "Thunder Road" Mitchell's.
It may have been no coincidence that those two who you mentioned being replaced, were most often panned for their acting.
Ali McGraw was not as bad as, say, the acting in the original _Lost in Space_ series, but....
And Byron looked like he was on Quaaludes the whole time.
I love this series
I was SO glad the loud mouth got popped one(smile)
Gripping series that covers all aspects of the war, can forgive some of the cheesy acting
Yes, cheesy. That is exactly it. Why in such a quality production did they have cheesy. A mystery to me. That and what would have been easily corrected errors in time and place ...
I guess they thought Ali is so cute (and at the top of her popularity) that no one would notice she didn't realize she wasn't still filming _Love Story_
Victor Pug Henry is by far the best character in the serie... change my mind !
Mitchum was a generation ahead of me. I was not a fan until this series, in part because he was so good in roles that I did not like. This is a truly great performance and how I will remember him.
And his character was actually fictitious.
Yes he is great
Always have loved Mitchum, Victoria Tennant (Pamela) is very good in this series too.
@@ronniebishop2496 Not only that, in the book he was only 5'8" tall. I liked the presence of Mitchum better.
@ 1:30:10-25, MP's Jeep is totally out-of-time-reference; Military-spec Jeeps were first designed & developed by Bantam in Nov 1940, and then after 2675 Jeeps were built it was phased into mass-production by Willy's and later Ford in mid-1941, mostly sent to Soviet Russia under Lend-lease, and more-broadly distributed for US and allied Mil use in Europe '42-45 (building a total of around 650,000!). At this time-period of the movie, Pearl Harbor hadn't yet occured and US was not yet in the war, other than lend-lease support, so for US to have had provided Jeeps for MP duty in neutral states like Portungal in late '41 would have been extremely unlikely, if not virtually impossible. This isn't even a quibble in such an excellantly written, produced, choreographed, well-acted and directed stellar dramatic production!
Thank you starmanskye for the true facts.
That isn't as far off, though, as Byron rushing to LaGuardia Airport _circa_ 30 years before it was called that. Why rush, he had PLENTY of time before there would even BE a LaGuardia Int'l Airport.
@@TampaDave It would have been presumptious to name it that...La Guardia was still Mayor of New York
1:08:50 or so... "Under four eyes." In other words, "What we say now for the next several moments, it doesn't leave this room." Or... in today's popular talk," What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
SuperPat88- Pug had a ridiculous reaction to their pitch in the novel. The Germans weren't in any, way, shape, or form, asking him to commit treason. He should have simply stated, in no uncertain terms, why he couldn't be of any help to them and why, in reality, he was against everything they were suggesting. Instead he threw a hissy fit like a spoiled child. Ah, well, it was only a work of fiction.
William Anthony Pug was a fictitious character to allow the audience to see the inside of everything as was That Nazis Roon. Both were unrealistic as was Byron’s Character And that crazy as hell Natalie.
William Anthony it was treason. You must be a Nazi apologist.
Another WWII saying was "On the Q.T." which meant, "On the quiet".
All marriages in America should be as time-consuming as the marriage in this episode because that way there would probably be less divorces 🤣🤣🤣
You mean the one where they are cheating on each other?
@@yosemite735 But love each other anyway rather than just kicking each other to the curb and taking the easy way out.!
Perhaps if the wife had to return all the wedding gifts instead of being enticed by financial reward for giving up on the marriage.
if this were a western, Pug would have been crossing the Delaware, chasing the British in new orleans. defending the alamo, owned a gold claim in California. was on the first iron clad. caught john wilks booth,
Pug was everywhere.
Legitimate literary device. Did not originate with Wouk.
OMG enough of Natalie
I guess there were some people as crazy as she was during this insanity. But she’s nuts.
Jane Seymour was exponentially better as Natalie in War & Remembrance. Alie McGraw was just a bad choice.
@@pearly872 Hey pearly, how the heck are you doin". I missed you.
Actually, based on the book, McGraw is not all that far off. Seymour was better, but not as assertive as the Natalie in the book.
@@normanbraslow7902 Yeah, I can see that.
Natalie, as played by Ali McGraw is much more of a user than the book portrays her to be.
I know when I first watched this.....a million years ago? Wow! Anyway, way back they could understand the accents, German or British.
Now? Not so much.
You are suggesting that the audience in 1983 was somewhat less "dumbed down" than today's viewers?
Just think: in 1983, there were ZERO millenials!
@@TampaDave: In a polite way, yes.
Wouk may understand Hitler better than most historians. See 27.00.
Hitler needed an enema
Rhoda at 20.00 redeems herself and the performance. Not so flighty after all. "He is so Navy....That's Pug Henry for you." Puts the rest of the performance in a new context. Polly Bergen.
I do love this show so.
Polly Bergen plays her role very well.
Yes I loved that scene as well and I felt sorry for her. He left her at the alter waiting to bring his commanding officer to the airport? Polly Bergen was very good in this role.
@@pamelarossell7027 I think she plays it as written. That is the root of a lot of the criticism. She displays all the complexity of the character.
Thank you so much for the work you must have done. Very much appreciated. Atlanta
Had to laugh when FDR sent 55 ships to England, saying they were old and we needed to get rid of them anyway. Still the same today: us and nato getting rid of old inventory while taxpayer funds new equipment. 😅😅😂
Better than sending your own boys to do the fighting.
WOW! That scene at the end where Natalie is still standing on the dock @ daybreak is heart breaking to say the least. For as sure as war was, she didn't if or when she was see her loving husband again. WHAt a dramatic closing for Part V
She was as crazy as hell and almost got gassed like her crazy uncle. And he was just to stubborn and stingy to get out.
jeff lockaby Well maybe he just didn’t realize how viscous the Nazis would become?
I must be strange because the Natalie character irritated me throughout. I know she was meant to irritate viewer some of the time, but OMG she was always playing the field, keeping men on the hook, always looking for the best deal, switching at will, and the men putting up with it. She's attractive but jeez the men are portrayed as so weak. I had more sympathy for Hitler than Natalie. No loyalty whatsoever.
Actually all the female characters had no moral character at all imo. Thankfully RUclips has fast forward.
That scene is almost identical to Roots: The Next Generations when Bertha is waving goodbye to Simon @ the train station after he enlisted in the army for the first WW.
ruclips.net/video/LSPKDyxgd6I/видео.html
1:31:32
To call Ali MacGraw’s acting “wooden” is an insult to trees everywhere.
Lol😉
😂🤣
haha yes. why when so many great actresses available.
I wonder if all the people watching this associate what happened in 1939 - 1945 to what looks like is going on inn 2022 - 2023. This isn’t prophetic but it does describe events we are no seeing and it seems like the world is taking the Rhoda Henry/Professor Jasper attitude; ignore it, it’s not as bad as they say and it will all go away.
I'll never forget the Mad parody of this series, which was called "The Windbags of War."
Always loved MAD especially the movie parodies! I started reading it in the mid Sixties.
@@nhmooytis7058 Early 70s for me and it was 40c cheap. You got two movie parodies per issue and the other stuff. Well, where I lived, new movies took about a year to get to us. And MAD held off parodying a movie until it had made the rounds, but still soon enough that people would find the parody entertaining. About a year delay. So when the other kids could afford to see the movie, I could read the parodies in MAD (40c cheap!) and know what the movies were basically about and have some good wisecracks about them too.
love this great great acting
loved this episode and rhoda still needs a time out for how she treats natilie
@julianne remley. Rhoda definitely needs a time out for how she treats Natalie. In fact all Christians need to realize that even the bible prints a lie Jews didn't kill Jesus. His sellout of his own kind and Poncious Pilot Govenor General of Rome killed him.
she should've blocked her
And yet when the US left vast quantities of hardware in Afghanistan, no one even got so much as a slap on the wrist.
You can not compare the US in WWII under FDR to the clown town we live in now 😢
@@nhmooytis7058 Afghanistan wasn't WW2, it was 2021!
However, the amount of hardware we left all over the world post WW2 would have been insane if you didn't consider that bringing it back would have cost far more. Plus, liberated countries needed it for their militaries.
@@tomb7942 nice try.
@@nhmooytis7058 Pretty good one since you don't have a logical response.
@@tomb7942 which is what all the bots say 😂😂😂
Well, Natalie, enjoy your trip to Italy and even more so the marvelous surroundings of Theresienstadt and Auschwitz. This character in the series makes me want to punch the screen sometimes.
The uniform that Goering wore was mostly light grey and sometime a darker grey version. This baby blue in this series is very weird. He did wear a lot of medals and some bling.
I found a few photos of him in blue but maybe they were colorized.
Get Into Your Pajamas? I DON'T THINK SO ! ! Not with a Welcome Like That !
ron m Nah,he is a lot older than she is and tired out Better wait a bit Do’tget all you money out of the bank and blow it all at Christmas New Year is round the corner !
Who wears pajamas?
The Bed Should Have Been A'ROCKIN' ! ! ! But O'l Herman Wouk was a prude ! ! Nothing " Spicy" here.................But then again could you imagine a scene like that with Big BOB in it ? EEEEEEww. Some things you just can't Un-See and that could have been one of them ! ! ! Good thinking Herman ! ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
All the women in this movie were spoiled brats except for Pamela Tudsbury
@@baronedipiemonte3990 Yes but like all the female characters, she was a cheat.
Powerful moment when captain walked out without shaking hands@1:14:55.
Indeed. More so than “tell Reichsmarshall Goering from me to shove his Swiss bank account up his fat ass.” Though that was funny, it was undiplomatic and therefore out of character for Captain Henry.
Yes even though as a confidential informant for the president he might have found out some interesting information if he had went along with him for awhile. Of course tell the pres before hand lol. But as a fictional character his tough attitude added drama and hate for the Nazis.
I read both books back in the 1980’s and they were very well written by Mr. Wouk. I read and did back then anything I could about WW2 and the Holocaust, mainly the European theatre of war. This series was excellent, but the series War and Remembrance was even better. Jane Seymour as Natalie was a much better choice as Natalie in my opinion. She was/is a much better actress and portrayed Natalie as the way the character should be, a strong, loving woman who survives Auschwitz with her son.
Fantastic movie
Thanks for posting
When did this come out
I felt sorry for Sloat he so loved Natalie and she gave him the runner round.
Yea poor sloat
In the book, it is explained that Natalie had been pursuing Sloat for years and had even proposed to him. His only objection to marrying her was that her being a Jew would adversely affect his career.
He didn't marry her!
Great body but acting -0
With all due respect, I don't feel sorry for Leslie Slote because he had the chance to marry her but he chose to put society's anti-Semitism and his own career ambitions ahead of her.
Natalie had proposed marriage to him but he turned her down because he was afraid it would have a bad effect on his Foreign Service career since, especially in those days, the Foreign Service, the State Department and other government agencies were a majority (if not totally!) made up of WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) and racism & anti-Semitism was RAMPANT among these groups.
Its also one of the reasons why, in addition to refusing to increase immigration quotas (even temporarily!) to give Jewish people safe haven from the Nazis, on top of that, in the several years prior to World War II, it is estimated that LESS THAN HALF of even the 20,000 AUTHORIZED immigration slots per year were filled. Not only that, but the US government even refused to pass a bill (the Wagner-Rogers Bill) that would have allowed 20,000 unaccompanied children to come to the US, kind of like the British "Kindertransport" program which enabled over 10,000 Jewish children to escape to England from Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia & Poland which saved their lives.
But the US State Department among others refused to accept a similar program, not even to SAVE THE LIVES of the CHILDREN. So given this kind of atmosphere, the potential negative effect of Leslie having a Jewish wife, is why he didn't want to marry Natalie when she loved him and proposed to him.
But then as soon as she started falling in love with Byron, that's when he suddenly decided that he wanted her, when she was no longer his to have. It's kind of like that old joke, "I want whatever apple that my brother Tommy wants to have!". Basically, it was NOT Natalie who "gave him the runaround" it was LESLIE who CHOSE to refuse Natalie when she was totally in love with him in Paris. He was the one who left her heartbroken by turning her down when she proposed to him. Which is actually why she went to work for her Uncle Aaron in the first place.
Which is why I absolutely do NOT feel sorry for Slote. Leslie didn't want Natalie when she loved him and wanted to marry him, and only when she and Byron were getting serious about each other then all of a sudden he has a change of heart, and expects Natalie to just jump to his call and drop everything to run back to him.
That being said, if Leslie had not turned Natalie down when she had proposed, Natalie might never have gone to work for Aaron, and gotten to know him and become so attached to him -- and maybe then she would NOT have gotten trapped in Nazi Europe, and Leslie wouldn't have ended up the way he did!
So no, I do NOT feel sorry for Leslie one bit. He brought it on himself, as well as Natalie, and maybe even Aaron also (because if he and Natalie had been married, he might have had more power to get Aaron out of Europe in time, with Natalie actually being his wife and Aaron being her biological family)
The odd thing is poor, suffering, used and teased Slote is the only one who actually looks Jewish!
Dukes wasn’t Jewish. Ali is half Jewish, as were Houseman (birth name Haussmann), and Anton Diffring who played Von Ribbentrop. Topol was Jewish from Israel. Ferdy Mayne, Herr Rosenthal, was also Jewish.
@@nhmooytis7058 So what?? I wrote about the characters NOT the religion or beliefs of the actors playing the characters!!🙄
@@instantkarma8777 so I can’t make informational comments? Only you can talk?
@@nhmooytis7058 I'm not talking. It's called writing. I never wrote about the actors (personal beliefs or religions) who played the characters they portrayed.
Perhaps if you want to initiate an argument, you could start with Meryl Streep. She was raised a Presbyterian. She played a Jewish mother. She was acting!!
My initial comment seems to have gone over your head.
@@instantkarma8777 or maybe it was a dopey comment 😂😂😂
they should have used Diane Lane instead of Alie McGraw or Jane Seymour
mcgraw was not capable to play her part, also, her lines were dopey and her character was absurd, other wise---great film....
Byron fires the first shot in the war bravo
The series show the contingencies of history and what a near-run thing the war was.
Charlie Smith, my sense is that too many people perceive the outcome of the Second World War as inevitable, when it wast and the people living it had no better sense of what tomorrow will bring than we do today amidst our own crises. It is interesting to read period diaries because as the reader you know what will happen, but the diarist is living and recording the drama as it unpredictably unfolds day by day with little sense of what direction history will go.
What you bring up, is the most essential thing to know about ww2.
Imagine that war fought with the german military leadership actually leading the war, and not the nazi party leadership that hatched disaster after disaster. The guys in OKW were brilliant. With them at the helm, Germany would not have beaten. World history would have looked very different.
@@torehaaland6921 Of course, it is unlikely that the German military would have started World War Two.
@@charliesmith4072 Agree. But in any case-the war that was started would have looked very different with an OKW running the show.
They built Adolph to be a cult leader, then they believed their own puppet was the master they had told the masses he was. Cults are absolutely fascinating!
Portuguese bureaucracy-you've got to love it!
@Malcolm Lewis(open): If our burearcracy here in America could operate at least in half that fashion, then a lot of BS would be squished.
O Senor, perhaps you need to visit Brazil...the red tape is maddening 😂😂😂
The blond german who got punched was in Kelly’s Hereos
Kelley's Hereoreoeoeseowwereouisouweoreuoooos? Do say.
One of the best parts of this segment.🤣
There is something wrong: The last episode ended with the bombing plane with the american navy officer onboard as observer was going to land in France, and the pilots asked him how his french is. In this episode, we just see him back in safety in England of USA! Isn't ehere an episode which is missing?
The last episode was left on a cliff-hanger, with the prospect of having to land in France, but the plane made it back.