I swapped my 100mm stem last week for an 80mm. This was a game changer, I no longer have this feeling of being too stretched out. I did it based on James statement that feeling stretched out usually translates into being way too stretched out.
Ye, I went from a stock 110 I think it was to an 80 and back at 90 now for a while. It's not dialed in quite yet but the weather's been shit so! I do think it's made a difference. Much better. 👍😀
I plan on doing exactly what you did. I came up with the idea after comparing by two bikes. One feels like a better fit and that is the bike that does not make me feel stretched out. It's about 7/8" shorter stem and just feels better. It will cost me ~$115 but is worth it if it makes the ride improved.
@@sisophous if you don't want to spend too much ask your bike shop if they have demo stems so you can try before your buy. Otherwise buy a cheap one check if the size is correct and then go for the fancy carbon stem 😉
@@JoJoLaPompa some shops will also let you swap them out for a different size within 30 days, I went through 4 before settling on the one I really like.
I'm glad to see this worked, I just got an 80mm to replace my 100mm and everywhere I've read said this is wrong wrong wrong. I feel good but get neck pain after about 2-2.5 hours. Trying to determine if its a fit issue or something I need to condition.
These videos are the best advertising James could ever want. Ever time I watch a bike fit Tuesday I want a bike fit from James. Maybe one day I will 🤔😂
@@HumaneNewt but in all seriousness, second studio is almost finished so the lead time ought to come down - if you book a session we’ll call you to bring it forward
I agree and it'd be fun to just enter his shop and look around and join the television audience for Bike Fit Tuesdays. And I could see James being like the surf shop proprietor in the skateboarding movie Lords of Dogtown--"Hey, this isn't a museum, if you're not gonna buy anything, get outta here!" lol and plus it'd be nice to get a photo with Bones.
As a person who lives all the way around the world from London and otherwise would not be able to afford a bike fit, I really appreciate this videos. Time for experimentation.
I never thought there was anything wrong with my bike until, I bought a smart Trainer and started doing indoor training. Then I started getting really uncomfortable, my back hurt, my butt hurt, my hands hurt... Never felt like that when I was on the road. Then I came across these videos, and this particular one made all the difference. A small investment later ( smaller than a new bike that is ) I now feel ultra comfortable on my bike, less pressure everywhere . Top class guys !
I switched from a 100mm stem (-7°) to a 110mm (-6°) after feeling to 'squished' while riding, I kept finding myself at the very top of the hoods in order to feel comfortable. It made so much difference, not just to my comfort but also the stability on fast descents.
I purchased my dream bike BMC SLR02 54cm this past summer. At 5'8" (30" inseam, shortish torso), it is on the large side for me but in a year with no bikes available, close enough. After riding most the summer with the seat pressed fully up, I finally swapped out the 100 mm stem for a 70mm. It made a big difference in how the bike fit feel feels (does that make sense). Now my seat is more central on the seat post and pedaling feels right where it should be. And yea, pressure on the hands is less with the smaller stem.
I'm 198 cm tall (6'6") two of my bikes are 64cm bikes with 120 mm stems, my gravel/cyclocross bike is 61cm frame it had a 120 mm stem, it was too short I felt cramped. Put on a 140 mm stem, and it just feels much better. GCN did a video on stem length and they found long stems felt better, and maneuvered just a well.
Francis, Jimmi, and everyone else, thank you so much. You folks are on fire these last few weeks, providing more information than anyone. And you’re fun, so thank you again.
Put a 80mm on my already agile and aggressive race bike. It makes it feel snappy and prone to speed wobble, but I absolutely love it. Sure, I have to shift my weight around to stop it bucking me off at anything over 30mph, but that's part of the fun.
head tube angle also gets steeper with every frame size up, or every second size depending on the manufacturer. That means the 44cm frame size with 70~degree headtube can have exactly same handling characteristics with 60-70mm stem compared to 55cm frame wit 72degree headtube and 100-110mm stem
Loving all of these bike fit Tuesday videos! It would be really cool if you guys could do one on how to do an at home DIY bike fit. I understand that James does bike fits for a living so this idea may seem counter intuitive and has probably been asked countless times before, but having a reasonably quick video guide with some step by step tips about which area of a bike should be fitted first, and then what to fit next, and so on would be great. Either way, love the videos! Cheers boys!
I’ve actually just spent about 7 hours over a period of 3 days…achieving absolutely nothing! I tried to set my new bike up like my old one, which is actually 2cm too small, though I do have short arms in comparison to my legs, so felt it would be approximate! OMFG was I wrong! The back pain on the new bike, which I think was influenced by the saddle, was chorionic! The inseam length x 1.09 is quite accurate at getting the correct leg angle but this usually results in having to slam my stem at exactly 1 metre from the bottom of the pedal stroke, thereby increasing the angle to the handlebars, the effects of which I was able to offset slightly by buying an endurance frame, though you’d feel the difference on an aero race bike. What recently occurred to me is to calculate the difference between the ideal saddle height (1 metre for a 36 inch inseam) and the top of the handlebars (use a spirit level to find a horizontal line extending from pedal, or simply use stack height) and if it falls around the 10-12cm, I think it’s approximately correct. I think it’s just generally trying to maximise one thing with only a slightly compromise on the other, unless it’s truly a custom bike. Increasing or decreasing the saddle height changes the angle of the knee, which necessitates fore/aft adjustments, which could potentially affect reach and possibly a change in crank length if you can’t get saddle/knee in the right position. Because of this never ending process on the route to perfection, I’ve just accepted an “acceptable position”.
Annoyingly my bike fitter recommended a M/L frame with at least an 80mm stem despite telling me I have long legs and short arms. I ended up ignoring his advice and buying a M with a 60mm stem, and the reach is still too long.
For what it's worth. A 5 time Tour de France winner once told me that your stem is to long when. You can't push back into the saddle without creating dynamic tension through the arms and back. In other words you "wind up" your upper body for leverage, transferring it through the legs down to the pedals to produce more power.
Hi, thanks for the video, it helped me alot. For some reason my bike came with 2cm longer stem than it must be for that bike model and I wasn't able to set saddle height correctly for months until I saw your video and figured out that stem was too long for the bike model and for my comfortable reach! Regards.
Thanks Francis and James. I have found that as I have gotten older, I am overextended on my 100 mm stem. I recently had a fit on my current bike to tweak my position and will be going to a 90 mm to improve my position.
I bought a used Cervelo about 4 years ago and it rode and felt better than anything I had ridden prior. However, I am learning to set it up better and why I have some discomfort from watching this channel. I have already adjusted the seat forward - it was too far back, and lowered the seat, both of which have helped tremendously. The bike did come with a shorter extra stem - I am off the install that! Thanks Francis and James!! If I am ever in the position to get a new bike, part of the cost will be a flight to London to see James.
Also as point of note. If you are quite friendly with the people down at your local bike repair shop. You could always ask them if they have any old, unwanted or trashed stems in their parts bin that you could borrow to try out which feels more comfortable for you. Even if they let you have something for free - always remember to tip them some beer money for going out of their way for you.
Many years ago, I was at a trade show in Canada and had lunch with Greg LeMond, me and a few other reps. Chat got to bike fit and rule of thumb measurements, and Greg suggested that a quick check of a stem length for a bike fit was to have the rider have his elbow on the nose of the saddle and extend his fingers outward over the stem. If the fingertips were about halfway up the stem's length, it was more or less correct length ... It's actually not far off, I found out over the years
I just bought a bike as that was originally used for gravel racing. I primarily do city riding and gravel trails. It’s a 61cm frame with a 130 mm stem. For reference I’m 6’4 with pretty damn long arms. I actually use standard length golf clubs if that means anything to y’all. The stem looked super bad ass and I did my best to make it work, but found myself constantly adjusting the handlebar, position, saddle and break levers to try and find something comfortable and didn’t feel like I was reaching for the brakes. Even with my n neanderthal reach it was wayyy too aggressive. Went to a 90 and it’s a whole new bike
I think pros go for longer stems due to the fact they race on the smallest frames they can be fitted on. I am more concerned with handling when I'm fitted. My goal is to stay with a 110 cm because I like the handling, but that depends on the frame. When I used to ride Treks, I rode a 60cm frame size with 110; With my Felts and Cannondales, I ride a 58 with 110. I can go 60 on those as well, and drop to a 100cm stem and the handling would feel similar due to them having longer top tubes than the Treks I used to ride.
Back in the 90s I had a 130mm stem on my 'mountain bike'. Mind you, back then, a mountain bike was a road bike with nobbies and a front suspension fork ... if you were a baller. A fun video or series would be to have James do some reaction videos watching the old Steve Hogg fitting videos. I think he collected the craziest negative rise stems, then started a fitting business to convince people to purchase them off of him.
My 5 year old loves James. Her words earlier were ‘That man looks like a burglar’ 😂 So... having bought my road bike back at the end of August (without getting a bike fit first, because I didn’t even know it was a thing), and averaging around 150k a week on it since, I don’t have any pain anywhere. But watching James’s videos makes me feel so paranoid that I think I should get a fit done... but don’t want to be told I bought the wrong size bike. So my question is... bearing in mind I’m 42 and riding for fun and fitness rather than to be competitive, should I bother trying to fix what isn’t broken, or do you think that I could make my rides even more enjoyable if I got one done? Thanks for all the content guys. Hope you’re well.
why would you consider to fix something unbroken? Now you are riding in that magic zone (150km/wk) where you might start to want to get faster. You know, just to see how better you can get. Then you'll go out a get a power meter to measure your output. When you do that, you'll want a bike fit to maximize your output.
I noticed you used the same clip of James talking about over-extending reach in last week's video about frame sizes.. Which, ironically, is what made me take a look at my own stem lengths. I've been fighting saddle comfort forever, and I now think it's due to the extended reach...even tho I like to ride long and low...but I suspect it was pulling me too far forward on the saddle. So I've gone back to the stock stems and will see if that alleviates the problem.
Also try a more comfortable saddle. And don’t believe that mantra that the problem is not in the saddle. Especially if you’re a little bit heavier like I am. It made my riding so much more enjoyable, when I bought a comfier saddle.
Stem length is really a matter of torso and arm length in relation to top tube length. It is a bit different for every one. As well bar height to seat height.
If you're riding on the hoods you can compensate for a longer stem by simply moving the hoods further up the bar, but then still have that deep aero reach for the pulling efforts
@@Bikefitjames I'm an old geezer but I reckon I'd give you a run for your money getting to the bar first 😉 Keep up the good work, it's much appreciated 🍻
7:00 I live with the first option. I use a size 44 bike with a 175mm stem i got from ebay. Even if i'm 184cm the bike feels quite good, of course my seatpost has to be longer too so i get a kind of Midosouji style of bike XD
Interestingly, Giant's SL stem now comes in a 0 degree option. Much like the Specialized hover bar, I think this is a silent nod to the point James has been making - race bikes are not the right bikes for most people!
Thanks for the video! I have always had to size up in frames (5'5" with longer arms and legs, shorter torso) and almost always have had to size down on my stems. Recently I bought a used "endurance" geometry road bike and am trying to get my position similar to my gravel bike (which fits me really well). I compared the geometry of the two before buying, and based on that, and the physical measurements, it does seem that my stem might need to be longer than the current 100mm. I will put some miles on it as is first, and may schedule a fit (here in Colorado). Appreciate the content!
Negative rise stems: I like them, I sit aggressive but comfortable on the hoods and only use the bends for descending, massive headwinds and sprinting. For those instances the discomfort weighs less then the benefits of having a lower position.
You will only get my 14cm stem when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers 😄. I am 6’2” and a former cat 2 racer. I have tried shorter, it just doesn’t work. Thanks for the video 👍
@@Cade_Media Considerations regarding long stem+short reach handlebars vs short stem+standard reach handlebars? E.g. any difference in bike handling (assuming that the length of stem+handlebars produce the same reach)?
There’s some good stuff there trouble is people expect to be comfortable off of a few hours a week riding that will never happen and generally those people will also be far to heavy to support there weight in my 40 years of cycling/racing hours in the saddle is the key with a decent riding position👌
Pretty funny, I have that exact 3T stem in a 130mm on one of my favorite bikes! 😂And it's probably my best handling bike too! Admittedly it's a hair small so the stem puts the bars in the perfect spot for me, it just clears my knees when I'm standing and sprinting and still has a very lively ride. My other bikes have a longer top tube and I have the normal 110mm stem.😎
Average height (5-11), but really long arms. Most of my bikes running 130s on frames with 55-57cm top tubes (horizontal). However, while I do believe I'm positioned on a more extreme stem length, the main reason is the arms - Ape Index of +9 (My arm span is just over 9 inches longer than my height, which is pretty unusual, but handy for swimming) . I think this really messes with the fit parameters. I tend to stick to older "traditional" frames as the the newer ones (especially mass produced in "Med" or "Large"), just fit really badly for me. My fitter tried to move my saddle forward and put me on a 120 stem, but I felt cramped and reverted after a while - this could also be the result of 40 years of the same position though. I do still try the shorter position every time I build / rebuild a bike, and I always end up slamming the saddle all the way back and sticking a 130 on. Great videos, try not to miss any.
Good video, I bought a ridley helium xxs with a 90mm srem.I'm only 5ft 2. I felt hunched up on it. The shop suggested that I needed to stretch out and I needed a 120mm. I ended up using a 100mm that was a better fit. It's a bit trial and error, I found.
Im 187cm At 17 -17° 130mm stem 565mm top tube 165mm head tube At 33 -6° 120mm stem 575 top tube 190 head tube Both were comfortable setups considering my flexibility.
Went down the rabbit hole of bike fit James videos and have noticed him say a few things i find peculiar -James says most people shouldn’t buy race bikes - says people buy bikes that are way too big for them (Said he is 5’10 or 5’11” riding a 52 or 53) -says 120mm stem is rare and if ur on a 130mm the bike is too big How does a man that tall fit on a bike that small and not use a 120 or 130 mm stem?? 😂😂😂
Given one's hands are riding the hoods typically, about 22-26 cm from the steering tube, I have ridden stems from 100mm to 45mm, with actually far less sense of the supposed twitchy changes predicted. Moreover, at road speeds steering is initiated by leaning and pushing down on the bar, and paradoxically, riders eating or drinking will often leave the one hand near the steering tube, precisely because leverage is reduced, and one is less likely to deflect the front wheel with a slight push or pull. Myths can be easily dispelled with simple experiments.
I shortened my stem from a 100 to a 90 to relieve pressure on my hands and shoulders. I was feeling stretched out with the 100. The handling is a bit more twitchy now than when I had the 100, but it’s something I’m looking forward to getting used to.
Sometimes my reach feels too long and I realize my pelvis and lower torso are slouching lazily. Then I tighten it up and it’s better. Too many moving parts!
I don’t understand why everybody is obsessed with such short stems these days, I hate the feel of having too fast and erratic steering and run between 60 to 70 and ride downhill / enduro
Okay i am a heavy big dude. I ride an endurance all road bike. And i had a 100mm stem with 7 rise. I was kinda okay, till i got an ISM saddle. I love the saddle but i had to push it all the way back to actually feel comfortable on the pedals cause my foot would be too far forward before. Okay that resulted in the handlebars being too far for me. So i got an 80mm stem with 7 rise today. The bike became like 10 times easier to handle. But because of the short length and the rise my position is too upright resulting in a weird feeling and saddle sore. So what do i do now? I turn the stem upside down to make it negative 7 degrees? Or i just place it further down on the spacers? I really need a more bent position, now that i have a shorter stem i feel that i will shine. Especially in my long rides. I still haven't managed to do my first 200km...
I really love this advice, that if you feel stretched out, you're way stretched out. This is my situation, complete amateur, measured my stem, it's 130 mm. Time for a ... downgrade ?
I'm 5'8 and have short arms and ride a size small(52) bike the the reach is 373.3mm and the top tube is 530.8mm. I had to go with a shorter stem because it was still a reach, so I went from a 90mm steam to a 80 and still think I may switch to a shorter stem, I am now wondering If I should just ride a XS bike and if need be go with the opposite and get a longer stem if the bike feels to cramped?
Hey! You touch on the topic of stem angles in this video. It made me wonder - Do you ever install, let say a standard 7degree angle stem to have a rise when you are performing fits, or do you allways install it with a drop and only consider the length? And if so why? Looking forward to your answer, Best regards Keld from Denmark
You missed the 2nd most crucial factor in fitting a bike. The stem effects the diagram tension and lung expansion. A slight adjustment makes a big difference.
I have a mid 90’s Mondonico traditional steel frame. It’s a 61cm center to center and a 120 stem length. One thing worth mentioning is in the beginning of the riding season it feels a little long. By mid riding season it feels perfect. I believe our bodies transition and tend to stretch out as we become more limber. Does this make sense to you. Just wondering what your opinion is. Thanks for all the great tips, especially on saddle height and cleat fore and aft. I dropped my saddle and feel more comfortable. Now I will work on moving my cleats back once I get my new CX332’s. I have a old pair of Lakes about ten years old and been riding with the cleats all the way forward.
What if i have a too small bike. It have 90mm stem, can a 110mm stem help and i can set seat 10mm back? I get hurt in the lumbar spine after 15 minutes on the bike right now. I think the frame is 53 and i usually use 56.
Thanks so much for the videos, I really enjoy them. You advocate having a bike fit prior to choosing and buying a bike. What is the deliverable, so to speak, and then how does one use that to evaluate bikes on the market to make a purchasing decision? Thanks!
You will get a report with the best numbers for you, like best reach, stack etc...then you can go and compare that to what's available om the bike market and make an informed decision. I did not have a pre- bikefit but from my normal bikefit I got a report which I have used to decide what new bike to get. I contacted my bike fitter just to make sure I got the right size and geometry and he told me it was spot on. The thing is, these numbers will change with time and depend on your fitness level, flexibility, age etc...so I might go for a bike fit again soon, just to see if its still right and the best position for me.
I swapped my 100mm stem last week for an 80mm. This was a game changer, I no longer have this feeling of being too stretched out. I did it based on James statement that feeling stretched out usually translates into being way too stretched out.
Ye, I went from a stock 110 I think it was to an 80 and back at 90 now for a while. It's not dialed in quite yet but the weather's been shit so! I do think it's made a difference. Much better. 👍😀
I plan on doing exactly what you did. I came up with the idea after comparing by two bikes. One feels like a better fit and that is the bike that does not make me feel stretched out. It's about 7/8" shorter stem and just feels better. It will cost me ~$115 but is worth it if it makes the ride improved.
@@sisophous if you don't want to spend too much ask your bike shop if they have demo stems so you can try before your buy. Otherwise buy a cheap one check if the size is correct and then go for the fancy carbon stem 😉
@@JoJoLaPompa some shops will also let you swap them out for a different size within 30 days, I went through 4 before settling on the one I really like.
I'm glad to see this worked, I just got an 80mm to replace my 100mm and everywhere I've read said this is wrong wrong wrong. I feel good but get neck pain after about 2-2.5 hours. Trying to determine if its a fit issue or something I need to condition.
These videos are the best advertising James could ever want. Ever time I watch a bike fit Tuesday I want a bike fit from James. Maybe one day I will 🤔😂
Pity about the 4 month waiting list :(
@@HumaneNewt gives me time to save up haha
@@HumaneNewt would you rather be fitted by someone with a two day lead time??
@@HumaneNewt but in all seriousness, second studio is almost finished so the lead time ought to come down - if you book a session we’ll call you to bring it forward
I agree and it'd be fun to just enter his shop and look around and join the television audience for Bike Fit Tuesdays. And I could see James being like the surf shop proprietor in the skateboarding movie Lords of Dogtown--"Hey, this isn't a museum, if you're not gonna buy anything, get outta here!" lol and plus it'd be nice to get a photo with Bones.
I just come here for Bike FIt Tuesdays that are posted on Wednesday and recorded on Sunday.
Stop it 😂
As a person who lives all the way around the world from London and otherwise would not be able to afford a bike fit, I really appreciate this videos. Time for experimentation.
I never thought there was anything wrong with my bike until, I bought a smart Trainer and started doing indoor training. Then I started getting really uncomfortable, my back hurt, my butt hurt, my hands hurt... Never felt like that when I was on the road. Then I came across these videos, and this particular one made all the difference. A small investment later ( smaller than a new bike that is ) I now feel ultra comfortable on my bike, less pressure everywhere . Top class guys !
Short reach bars are the best kept secret to keeping a "pro" stem length
Hahaha genius!
That's why I use Specialized short reach bars!
Agreed. Love my specialized short reach bars! Especially for only about $30 USD
I switched from a 100mm stem (-7°) to a 110mm (-6°) after feeling to 'squished' while riding, I kept finding myself at the very top of the hoods in order to feel comfortable. It made so much difference, not just to my comfort but also the stability on fast descents.
I purchased my dream bike BMC SLR02 54cm this past summer. At 5'8" (30" inseam, shortish torso), it is on the large side for me but in a year with no bikes available, close enough. After riding most the summer with the seat pressed fully up, I finally swapped out the 100 mm stem for a 70mm. It made a big difference in how the bike fit feel feels (does that make sense). Now my seat is more central on the seat post and pedaling feels right where it should be. And yea, pressure on the hands is less with the smaller stem.
I'm 198 cm tall (6'6") two of my bikes are 64cm bikes with 120 mm stems, my gravel/cyclocross bike is 61cm frame it had a 120 mm stem, it was too short I felt cramped. Put on a 140 mm stem, and it just feels much better. GCN did a video on stem length and they found long stems felt better, and maneuvered just a well.
Francis, Jimmi, and everyone else, thank you so much. You folks are on fire these last few weeks, providing more information than anyone. And you’re fun, so thank you again.
I'm in Florida and have been a bike fitter for over 10 years. These are great vids! Thank you
Put a 80mm on my already agile and aggressive race bike. It makes it feel snappy and prone to speed wobble, but I absolutely love it. Sure, I have to shift my weight around to stop it bucking me off at anything over 30mph, but that's part of the fun.
This series is great. Informative, entertaining, compelling. Bonus: James's mannerisms remind me of Hugh Laurie (mostly in his role as House).
Guys you are the best in bike fit discussions. Amazing how much we learn about fitting with your videos. Really congrats and thank you.
Seat post angle? Top tube length? Stem length? Stem angle? Spacers in the head set? E = mc2 and on it goes!
head tube angle also gets steeper with every frame size up, or every second size depending on the manufacturer. That means the 44cm frame size with 70~degree headtube can have exactly same handling characteristics with 60-70mm stem compared to 55cm frame wit 72degree headtube and 100-110mm stem
New life achievement discovered: get a bike fit with James. Hopefully when there is no more virus and travel is sorted...
Thank you Francis - James is the "Bear on the Bicycle" great visual for the demonstration
BFT are wonderfully useful no matter when it's recorded. Great work!
I bought an 80mm stem to replace my 100mm based on the earlier video. I hope I haven’t gone too far. Nothing to do now but install it and try it.
How does it feel. I'm going to the same route.
Lawrence needs to watch this. He was still wobbling in Italy with Sav.
Loving all of these bike fit Tuesday videos! It would be really cool if you guys could do one on how to do an at home DIY bike fit. I understand that James does bike fits for a living so this idea may seem counter intuitive and has probably been asked countless times before, but having a reasonably quick video guide with some step by step tips about which area of a bike should be fitted first, and then what to fit next, and so on would be great. Either way, love the videos! Cheers boys!
I’ve actually just spent about 7 hours over a period of 3 days…achieving absolutely nothing! I tried to set my new bike up like my old one, which is actually 2cm too small, though I do have short arms in comparison to my legs, so felt it would be approximate! OMFG was I wrong! The back pain on the new bike, which I think was influenced by the saddle, was chorionic! The inseam length x 1.09 is quite accurate at getting the correct leg angle but this usually results in having to slam my stem at exactly 1 metre from the bottom of the pedal stroke, thereby increasing the angle to the handlebars, the effects of which I was able to offset slightly by buying an endurance frame, though you’d feel the difference on an aero race bike. What recently occurred to me is to calculate the difference between the ideal saddle height (1 metre for a 36 inch inseam) and the top of the handlebars (use a spirit level to find a horizontal line extending from pedal, or simply use stack height) and if it falls around the 10-12cm, I think it’s approximately correct. I think it’s just generally trying to maximise one thing with only a slightly compromise on the other, unless it’s truly a custom bike. Increasing or decreasing the saddle height changes the angle of the knee, which necessitates fore/aft adjustments, which could potentially affect reach and possibly a change in crank length if you can’t get saddle/knee in the right position. Because of this never ending process on the route to perfection, I’ve just accepted an “acceptable position”.
Good work ... as usual!
There's always one nugget of gold. This time it was that a short stem can lead to high speed wobble.
I love these videos makes me rethink my set up
Annoyingly my bike fitter recommended a M/L frame with at least an 80mm stem despite telling me I have long legs and short arms. I ended up ignoring his advice and buying a M with a 60mm stem, and the reach is still too long.
For what it's worth. A 5 time Tour de France winner once told me that your stem is to long when. You can't push back into the saddle without creating dynamic tension through the arms and back. In other words you "wind up" your upper body for leverage, transferring it through the legs down to the pedals to produce more power.
I'm just glad stems are clearly a stand-in for something. I was worried that double entendre would be missed.
Hi, thanks for the video, it helped me alot. For some reason my bike came with 2cm longer stem than it must be for that bike model and I wasn't able to set saddle height correctly for months until I saw your video and figured out that stem was too long for the bike model and for my comfortable reach! Regards.
Thanks Francis and James. I have found that as I have gotten older, I am overextended on my 100 mm stem. I recently had a fit on my current bike to tweak my position and will be going to a 90 mm to improve my position.
I bought a used Cervelo about 4 years ago and it rode and felt better than anything I had ridden prior. However, I am learning to set it up better and why I have some discomfort from watching this channel. I have already adjusted the seat forward - it was too far back, and lowered the seat, both of which have helped tremendously. The bike did come with a shorter extra stem - I am off the install that! Thanks Francis and James!! If I am ever in the position to get a new bike, part of the cost will be a flight to London to see James.
This channel is so useful, perfect info so I'll stick with my 90mm
Also as point of note. If you are quite friendly with the people down at your local bike repair shop. You could always ask them if they have any old, unwanted or trashed stems in their parts bin that you could borrow to try out which feels more comfortable for you. Even if they let you have something for free - always remember to tip them some beer money for going out of their way for you.
Love these videos. Love that they never come out on Tuesday, and I refuse to watch them on Tuesday
Many years ago, I was at a trade show in Canada and had lunch with Greg LeMond, me and a few other reps. Chat got to bike fit and rule of thumb measurements, and Greg suggested that a quick check of a stem length for a bike fit was to have the rider have his elbow on the nose of the saddle and extend his fingers outward over the stem. If the fingertips were about halfway up the stem's length, it was more or less correct length ... It's actually not far off, I found out over the years
I just bought a bike as that was originally used for gravel racing. I primarily do city riding and gravel trails. It’s a 61cm frame with a 130 mm stem. For reference I’m 6’4 with pretty damn long arms. I actually use standard length golf clubs if that means anything to y’all. The stem looked super bad ass and I did my best to make it work, but found myself constantly adjusting the handlebar, position, saddle and break levers to try and find something comfortable and didn’t feel like I was reaching for the brakes. Even with my n neanderthal reach it was wayyy too aggressive. Went to a 90 and it’s a whole new bike
Booked!
I think pros go for longer stems due to the fact they race on the smallest frames they can be fitted on. I am more concerned with handling when I'm fitted. My goal is to stay with a 110 cm because I like the handling, but that depends on the frame. When I used to ride Treks, I rode a 60cm frame size with 110; With my Felts and Cannondales, I ride a 58 with 110. I can go 60 on those as well, and drop to a 100cm stem and the handling would feel similar due to them having longer top tubes than the Treks I used to ride.
Back in the 90s I had a 130mm stem on my 'mountain bike'. Mind you, back then, a mountain bike was a road bike with nobbies and a front suspension fork ... if you were a baller.
A fun video or series would be to have James do some reaction videos watching the old Steve Hogg fitting videos. I think he collected the craziest negative rise stems, then started a fitting business to convince people to purchase them off of him.
My 5 year old loves James. Her words earlier were ‘That man looks like a burglar’ 😂 So... having bought my road bike back at the end of August (without getting a bike fit first, because I didn’t even know it was a thing), and averaging around 150k a week on it since, I don’t have any pain anywhere. But watching James’s videos makes me feel so paranoid that I think I should get a fit done... but don’t want to be told I bought the wrong size bike. So my question is... bearing in mind I’m 42 and riding for fun and fitness rather than to be competitive, should I bother trying to fix what isn’t broken, or do you think that I could make my rides even more enjoyable if I got one done? Thanks for all the content guys. Hope you’re well.
why would you consider to fix something unbroken? Now you are riding in that magic zone (150km/wk) where you might start to want to get faster. You know, just to see how better you can get. Then you'll go out a get a power meter to measure your output. When you do that, you'll want a bike fit to maximize your output.
I noticed you used the same clip of James talking about over-extending reach in last week's video about frame sizes.. Which, ironically, is what made me take a look at my own stem lengths. I've been fighting saddle comfort forever, and I now think it's due to the extended reach...even tho I like to ride long and low...but I suspect it was pulling me too far forward on the saddle. So I've gone back to the stock stems and will see if that alleviates the problem.
Also try a more comfortable saddle. And don’t believe that mantra that the problem is not in the saddle. Especially if you’re a little bit heavier like I am. It made my riding so much more enjoyable, when I bought a comfier saddle.
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@@jameshawkins5843 Hahaha even better!
I 100% support cycling for the mentally handicapped. You both are very brave! 😀👍
Stem length is really a matter of torso and arm length in relation to top tube length. It is a bit different for every one. As well bar height to seat height.
Recently changed from a 100mm to 80mm and haven't looked back. I no longer get hand numbness and shoulder pain
Here for all of this, always informative!!! Thank you once again, Francis. 🙏🕊
Man these bikefit videos are dope!!! MORE MORE MORE!!
Great uncomplicated and practical information there.
Your videos have been invaluable to me.
If you're riding on the hoods you can compensate for a longer stem by simply moving the hoods further up the bar, but then still have that deep aero reach for the pulling efforts
After watching so many of these videos, I'm doing bike fitting myself since there is no one who does it properly in Vietnam.
Been running a 12 since I stopped racing in the early 90's, I raced using a 14... my lumbar has been thanking me ever since..
0:04 .. that has to be the quickest James has moved in a while 😂
Another great and informative video 👍
You should see me move when the bar opens
@@Bikefitjames I'm an old geezer but I reckon I'd give you a run for your money getting to the bar first 😉
Keep up the good work, it's much appreciated 🍻
7:00 I live with the first option. I use a size 44 bike with a 175mm stem i got from ebay. Even if i'm 184cm the bike feels quite good, of course my seatpost has to be longer too so i get a kind of Midosouji style of bike XD
Kimo...kimoi!
Maybe get a proper size bike.
Get a proper bike size rather than pretending to be an anime character,
Interestingly, Giant's SL stem now comes in a 0 degree option. Much like the Specialized hover bar, I think this is a silent nod to the point James has been making - race bikes are not the right bikes for most people!
Thanks for the video! I have always had to size up in frames (5'5" with longer arms and legs, shorter torso) and almost always have had to size down on my stems. Recently I bought a used "endurance" geometry road bike and am trying to get my position similar to my gravel bike (which fits me really well). I compared the geometry of the two before buying, and based on that, and the physical measurements, it does seem that my stem might need to be longer than the current 100mm. I will put some miles on it as is first, and may schedule a fit (here in Colorado). Appreciate the content!
These videos make me realise I have no idea what I am doing :)
Negative rise stems: I like them, I sit aggressive but comfortable on the hoods and only use the bends for descending, massive headwinds and sprinting. For those instances the discomfort weighs less then the benefits of having a lower position.
You will only get my 14cm stem when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers 😄. I am 6’2” and a former cat 2 racer. I have tried shorter, it just doesn’t work. Thanks for the video 👍
Thank god, something has returned to the norm. Bike Fit Tuesday, not on a Tuesday
I use a 130mm stem on a 59cm frame and I'm 184cm, surprisingly it's fits me well
Chaps, did you mention that you can turn them upside down, to have say + or - 7 using the same stem?
#The angle of the dangle !!!
Handlebar width and reach are factors to consider for overall reach.
Yes of course
@@Cade_Media Considerations regarding long stem+short reach handlebars vs short stem+standard reach handlebars?
E.g. any difference in bike handling (assuming that the length of stem+handlebars produce the same reach)?
BikeFitTuesdays are the best Wednesdays!
Mine’s shrunk over the years.....just sayin’
lols
but what about the girth??
@@npc4188 Mountain bike stems are chodes, short and girthy.
Was it due to cold water?
Were you in the pool?
Subscribed for bike fit tuesdays
There’s some good stuff there trouble is people expect to be comfortable off of a few hours a week riding that will never happen and generally those people will also be far to heavy to support there weight in my 40 years of cycling/racing hours in the saddle is the key with a decent riding position👌
Pretty funny, I have that exact 3T stem in a 130mm on one of my favorite bikes! 😂And it's probably my best handling bike too! Admittedly it's a hair small so the stem puts the bars in the perfect spot for me, it just clears my knees when I'm standing and sprinting and still has a very lively ride. My other bikes have a longer top tube and I have the normal 110mm stem.😎
Average height (5-11), but really long arms. Most of my bikes running 130s on frames with 55-57cm top tubes (horizontal). However, while I do believe I'm positioned on a more extreme stem length, the main reason is the arms - Ape Index of +9 (My arm span is just over 9 inches longer than my height, which is pretty unusual, but handy for swimming) . I think this really messes with the fit parameters. I tend to stick to older "traditional" frames as the the newer ones (especially mass produced in "Med" or "Large"), just fit really badly for me. My fitter tried to move my saddle forward and put me on a 120 stem, but I felt cramped and reverted after a while - this could also be the result of 40 years of the same position though. I do still try the shorter position every time I build / rebuild a bike, and I always end up slamming the saddle all the way back and sticking a 130 on. Great videos, try not to miss any.
Good video, I bought a ridley helium xxs with a 90mm srem.I'm only 5ft 2. I felt hunched up on it. The shop suggested that I needed to stretch out and I needed a 120mm. I ended up using a 100mm that was a better fit. It's a bit trial and error, I found.
Im 187cm
At 17
-17° 130mm stem
565mm top tube
165mm head tube
At 33
-6° 120mm stem
575 top tube
190 head tube
Both were comfortable setups considering my flexibility.
Love these vids! Thanks guys 🙏
For all the knowledge, I've never seen this guy actually riding a bike 😀👍
Went down the rabbit hole of bike fit James videos and have noticed him say a few things i find peculiar
-James says most people shouldn’t buy race bikes
- says people buy bikes that are way too big for them (Said he is 5’10 or 5’11” riding a 52 or 53)
-says 120mm stem is rare and if ur on a 130mm the bike is too big
How does a man that tall fit on a bike that small and not use a 120 or 130 mm stem?? 😂😂😂
I'm 5"8. I have a 1998 Trek 5200 Frame size 56cm Stem length 110mm Steerer is cut to 5mm spacer under the stem.
on former bike i installed an adjustable stem to rise the hamdles up. on my new bike i just got an extender and attached the original stem to it.
Great videos mate
70mm, +35 degree incline on slacker head tube on my gravel bike. Steering more precise now. Not cool looking but comfortable as hell.
Given one's hands are riding the hoods typically, about 22-26 cm from the steering tube, I have ridden stems from 100mm to 45mm, with actually far less sense of the supposed twitchy changes predicted. Moreover, at road speeds steering is initiated by leaning and pushing down on the bar, and paradoxically, riders eating or drinking will often leave the one hand near the steering tube, precisely because leverage is reduced, and one is less likely to deflect the front wheel with a slight push or pull. Myths can be easily dispelled with simple experiments.
I shortened my stem from a 100 to a 90 to relieve pressure on my hands and shoulders. I was feeling stretched out with the 100. The handling is a bit more twitchy now than when I had the 100, but it’s something I’m looking forward to getting used to.
Did you keep the same degree of rise/drop?
@@benjaming.2218 thanks
@@JonathanWhoever it’s actually 6 degree rise.
@@benjaming.2218 thats what I thought you meant. Thanks
Love these videos.
Sometimes my reach feels too long and I realize my pelvis and lower torso are slouching lazily. Then I tighten it up and it’s better. Too many moving parts!
The main problem facing bears on bicycles? You guessed it! Excessive saddle height
🖤 Rachel will be remembered.
I don’t understand why everybody is obsessed with such short stems these days, I hate the feel of having too fast and erratic steering and run between 60 to 70 and ride downhill / enduro
I'm 5'5 and I was definitely stretched out on an 80mm. So Im thinking 70mm with a smaller 17 degree tilt.
What about the old saw that, when riding in the hoods, the stem should be long enough so that the bar blocks your view of the front hub?
If I reduced reach by 10mm but lost 15mm height how would that impact?
Okay i am a heavy big dude. I ride an endurance all road bike. And i had a 100mm stem with 7 rise. I was kinda okay, till i got an ISM saddle. I love the saddle but i had to push it all the way back to actually feel comfortable on the pedals cause my foot would be too far forward before. Okay that resulted in the handlebars being too far for me. So i got an 80mm stem with 7 rise today. The bike became like 10 times easier to handle. But because of the short length and the rise my position is too upright resulting in a weird feeling and saddle sore. So what do i do now? I turn the stem upside down to make it negative 7 degrees? Or i just place it further down on the spacers? I really need a more bent position, now that i have a shorter stem i feel that i will shine. Especially in my long rides. I still haven't managed to do my first 200km...
I really love this advice, that if you feel stretched out, you're way stretched out. This is my situation, complete amateur, measured my stem, it's 130 mm. Time for a ... downgrade ?
Hello there! This is basically my earliest comment in a while.
I'm 5'8 and have short arms and ride a size small(52) bike the the reach is 373.3mm and the top tube is 530.8mm. I had to go with a shorter stem because it was still a reach, so I went from a 90mm steam to a 80 and still think I may switch to a shorter stem, I am now wondering If I should just ride a XS bike and if need be go with the opposite and get a longer stem if the bike feels to cramped?
Hey!
You touch on the topic of stem angles in this video.
It made me wonder - Do you ever install, let say a standard 7degree angle stem to have a rise when you are performing fits, or do you allways install it with a drop and only consider the length? And if so why?
Looking forward to your answer,
Best regards
Keld from Denmark
You missed the 2nd most crucial factor in fitting a bike.
The stem effects the diagram tension and lung expansion. A slight adjustment makes a big difference.
I have a mid 90’s Mondonico traditional steel frame. It’s a 61cm center to center and a 120 stem length. One thing worth mentioning is in the beginning of the riding season it feels a little long. By mid riding season it feels perfect. I believe our bodies transition and tend to stretch out as we become more limber. Does this make sense to you. Just wondering what your opinion is. Thanks for all the great tips, especially on saddle height and cleat fore and aft. I dropped my saddle and feel more comfortable. Now I will work on moving my cleats back once I get my new CX332’s. I have a old pair of Lakes about ten years old and been riding with the cleats all the way forward.
The angle!!! Never knew what a huge difference to reach it would make!
What if i have a too small bike. It have 90mm stem, can a 110mm stem help and i can set seat 10mm back? I get hurt in the lumbar spine after 15 minutes on the bike right now. I think the frame is 53 and i usually use 56.
Thanks so much for the videos, I really enjoy them. You advocate having a bike fit prior to choosing and buying a bike. What is the deliverable, so to speak, and then how does one use that to evaluate bikes on the market to make a purchasing decision? Thanks!
You will get a report with the best numbers for you, like best reach, stack etc...then you can go and compare that to what's available om the bike market and make an informed decision. I did not have a pre- bikefit but from my normal bikefit I got a report which I have used to decide what new bike to get. I contacted my bike fitter just to make sure I got the right size and geometry and he told me it was spot on. The thing is, these numbers will change with time and depend on your fitness level, flexibility, age etc...so I might go for a bike fit again soon, just to see if its still right and the best position for me.
6:59 Or you ride a flat bar hybrid. I've got a 15 cm stem because narrow flat bars reduce the reach significantly relative to drop bars.
Like the way you made James disappear at the start!
Got a new road bike. And the bike guy suggested I increase my stem length. So watching to see why stem length matters