On the advice of this video I bought a copy of the Archie Perkins lathe book. It is far and away the best most complete information source on watchmaker lathes that I have seen so far. There is a wealth of explanation on the use of numerous accessories that are no longer made but always seem to be available for sale on sites such as Ebay. I am also sad to report that this morning I just learned that Archie Perking passed away a year ago in February 2017 at the age of 93. david
The Sincere Lathe is a quality product and a great choice for many reasons. So many people have chosen to buy used traditional brands only to find that accessories are not available, and when they are, they are in bad shape. The basic Sincere lathe is still only around $700.00 which includes a cross slide and collet holding lever tail stock. All the accessories including a complete collet set (1-80) can be purchased at a later date at a reasonable cost. david
This is true David. I have a Sincere lathe also, as seen in the art of screwmaking videos. However, each lathe has it's pros and cons. Buying new and having accessories on hand for when you are financially ready is great, especially when you know what the price will be.
Great advice on lathe book choices. I collect old watchmaker's tool catalogs as it often tells you what that mystery tool or lathe attachment is for. Stick with an 8mm collet lathe, also known as a WW lathe. They are the most common lathe type and easiest to find parts for. Most American watchmakers never used the tail stock or the crossslide. Levin or Boley are the best common lathe makers that use the more stable American style bed. As for collets, you need individual sizes up to 12 and even sizes after that. Lathes are dear when you start watchmaking and then seem to just show up the longer you are in the business.
Mohammed Viram, The Harbor Freight (Central Machinery) lathe is a small engine lathe and not a watchmaker lathe. In general, engine lathes improve as their size increases up to a 15 inch swing. A small engine lathe is still an engine lathe and a smaller size has a negative effect on the performance of the machine. A watchmaker lathe and an instrument lathe are extremely high precision machines designed to successfully produce small high precision parts. The Cowel's lathe that Dean DK has is an instrument lathe. The currently produced Levin and Derbyshire lathes are also instrument lathes. instrument lathes and watchmaker lathes typically have a spindle runout from .0002 inches to .oooo50 inches. Instrument lathes are also not to be confused with small molded aluminum bed desktop hobby lathes made from remelted aluminum cans. Watchmaker lathes and instrument lathes are machines that can hold extreme tolerances that have ramifications from concentricity to surface finish. An engine lathe is designed with a different purpose in mind. This does not mean that one machine is bad and the other machine is good, it simply means that the machines are designed to produce different types of parts. david
Thank you for the tip on the book "The Modern Watchmakers Lathe & How To Use It" by Archie B Perkins . It is what I have been looking for to learn the different attachments and how to use them. Now if only I can find a book about vintage Watchmakers and Clock makers tools and how identify and how to use them, I will be well on my way to applying this new knowledge.
You’re welcome James, thanks for watching and commenting. I’m currently overseas at the moment, but when I get back I will show a book you may be interested in for your tool needs
Dean great job. I am total greenhorn looking to purchase first lathe. I also would like a copy of the collet data sheet.Do you have a printable link for this information? Thanks
Hi Joyce, at the time of this I had a website where it was hosted. I will try to find and upload to my new website. This maybe a few months though, as I need to get my website in order. Really sorry about that
Watched all ur videos. Fantastic to watch. Ur passion shines through. Im a cnc machinist and have a mini manual mill with a rotary wheel at home. Wondering if I could make the same parts at home on my mill. Is the mini lathe just a prefered machine to use for watch makers or is it essential over a mini mill?? I wonder as a person with little watch experience.
Thanks for watching all my videos and taking to the time to comment. Sorry about the delay in my response. I think you would just need a accurate mill in terms of spindle runout, and being able to precisely locate holes. There are old Swiss Manual Jig Borer's made for watchmakers, which I would love to use to make the same thing I'm making on the lathe.
@@DeanDKnp and very cool. I have never heard of a jig borer. I will look into those. Appreciate the feed back. I know it's early but I would love to buy a watch from u if u have goals to making multiples. Love ur work and content. Keep the dream alive! 🎆
Dean, You have failed to mention excellent book on lathes by Hans Jendritzki "The Watchmaker and his Lathe" where Jendritzki covers some aspects of the watchmaker's lathes that Archie Perkins did not cover.
Nice book reference list. I've had a Derbyshire lathe with headstock and tailstock that I picked up for $20, but no tool rest or motor came with it. What size motor is on your machine? What rpm's does a watchmakers lathe usually run at? Any help would be appreciated.
+ThunderDog Sorry about the delayed reply. For my American watchmakers lathe I use an electric scooter motor. The motor should have sufficient torque, unlikr sewing machine motors that many use. The rpms do not need to be high, usually turn at 400 rpm. I think a motor around max 1000 rpm would be sufficient.
Great series of videos! Can you help with a few points please? First, I think you mentioned (in another video) references of where to buy the sharpening stones for gravers? I cannot locate the links, so could you post here? Secondly, the points when selecting a lathe don't mention anything about the motor. What power do you recommend and what other specs should it meet (shaft speed, single or variable etc)?
Some great references! I've started reading the de Carle book as my introduction. I bought my Lorch lathe with lots of accessories from ebay in December. Think it's all in relative good working order. Alignment is good. Sad thing is that there was no 3jaw chuck, only a large face plate. I figured to use that for larger items, but it touches the bed 😡. Strange as it really seems to be part of the original box.
Steve Koll If the box accomodates the faceplate, it may belong. I would research you Lorch model as I have seen gap bed attachments which allows larger work to be turned close to headstock. Thanks for the feedback, also let me know how you are going, and if there anything I can show that might help. Cheers!
thanks for the videos, I'm a recent graduate and now with a job and my own space I'm looking to get into watchmaking as a hobby. you're videos are a real insight. do you have a recommended lathe for a first watchmaking lathe?
+oli696969 You're welcome, thanks for watching :) Congratulations on new job and own space, you're on your way now after graduating! Unfortunately it's hard for me to recommend a lathe, because there other factors like budget and what your plans are for the lathe which are probably the most important, then questions like do you want a first then upgrade later etc. If you are worried about buying a used, there ones you can buy new from China aren't too bad. There are watchmaking schools in the U.S. using them. I'm going to do a review of my Sincere lathe most likely next week sometime. If you have twitter, DM me if you want to discuss further.
@@DeanDK hi, could you please share the same with me. Even I just got started into Watchmaking, so which Lathe do I go with first. I am a total newbie.
@@BikashDebnath Hi Bikash Debnath. I wish to share what I have done in similar situations, when internet connectivity and such resources were non-existant. With a little access to a primitive machine shop, I made a square section machined and ground cast iron bed, about 3/4 " x 12 "long. From scrap yard found 2 nos pneumatic cylinder rod end clevises which had reamed 5/8" bores. The seat for square bed was milled with both clevises mounted on a common mandrel, and a corner clamp ensured a reasonably co-axial alignment of the bores. For tailstock, Engine valve guides and ground spindle With taper mounted drill chuck were adopted. The main spindle ran on bronze plain bushes by a single groove pulley at the front end, which also doubled up as a chuck. End play was set by a locking collar at rear end. The trials were surprisingly accurate and encouraging to try some fine and detailed experimental work, nearly approaching watchmaking scales. Runout could not be measured with my available micrometre or dial indicator of 0.01mm least count. Although not in serious watchmaking I am enjoying trying out myself in small parts machining, hobby work and model making work. I can now see of so many available equipment, but am enjoying something out of nothing much spent. Of course much time and effort can be saved for more useful work nowadays at a nominal cost, hence making by self is only but a self rewarding experience.
@@DeanDK, I'm looking to buy a Sincere soon. I know there are issues and limitations, and some workarounds/improvements. I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences with it. Did you ever post your review? Keep up the great work! It's been interesting and informative watching your progress. Thanks for sharing it with us.
As I just start being interested in watchmaking and looking and browsing through all the information, including lathe sales (I know that a lathe is not among the first starter tools needed, just looking out of interest) my question is: Are these, Boley and others, lathes being made and sold new anymore? Can't find them new! On the Watch Repair Channel he says that he bought a cheaper lathe made in Asia but I can't find ANY brand new ones. Can someone answer this?
Thanks a lot for the tips. I am knew into this art and I was wondering If Boley, Wittcomb & Home Constructed Collet Sets are compatible with Watch-Craft Jewelers Lathe C & E Marshall. Thank you
+Alexandre Pizem Thanks for your question. Sorry about the delayed reply. Boley won't fit a Marshall lathe. Is the motor on your lathe Watch-Craft? On paper a WW Sherline collet will fit, only buy one initially to test if it fits. You can purchase these new. Collet compatibility can be tricky at times.
Dean you are very insightful, we love our micromachine lathes and you are sharing a great help to us all, either for the beginner not knowing or to remind the rest of us that do not know it all after all.
Hi Dean, I have a Kendrick lathe that uses Peerless collets. I believe the collets are 8 mm I am going to put a 2.5" chuck on it from Shearline. Any idea as to who would currently makes an adaptor to fit? Thanks, Ron B
Hi Siddhesh, there is a lot of debate online. I have never used or seen a Sherline lathe in the flesh, so I don’t know and therefore I really can’t make a comment, I’m sorry I know it’s the answer you are looking for, I just don’t know and don’t want to lie. 😁
@@DeanDK Hi Dean, thank you for reply 😊. While I searched elsewhere, I found some NAWCC people use Sherline for all watchmaking jobs. I guess Sherline is more famous in US. On one of the forums it is said that "its not the machine, its the machinist that makes a difference"
Great reply! I agree... People have been making clocks and watches for many hundreds of years without our blessed "modern" precision. The person is the watchmaker, not the machine. 👍
I get confused over this, at some point I will need a clockmakers lathe, especially if I want to repair broken off pivots on arbors. I assume most watchmakers lathe are too small for repairing and making clock parts, like cutting wheels etc. I do have a bushing tool now which is great, I use it at least once a week.
+SemiDevilish Hi, hmmm best thing would be looking for any names or marking on thr lathr and search google. Or browse through the lathes.co.uk under boley
Does anyone know how loud generally watchmakers lathes are? I live in a flat and would love to get one, but I am unsure on if it would be too loud for that. I appreciate any info.
the only real noise generated is from the drive belt motor which is less noisy than a hairdryer, its quite a relaxing whiring noise, even milling components is very quiet,
This video really has extremely good advice. I congratulate you on putting the finger on some of the more important ones. My bit of advice is to buy locally if possible, rather than over the internet. Daniel p.s. just subscribed!
@Ben Hough For watch repair ML7 is too big. However, for watchmaking one would need a lot of tools and accessories that cannot be bought so the ML7 will fit the task perfectly. But, you would still need a smaller lathe 8 mm or 10 mm even both, all depending on what you shall be making.
yes I has buy a superadept hobby lathe he is in restoration and is go to finilisee I have an other and he havent numbers no name I see it good but I havent reference
Hey Thomas, I ended up with the Cowells CW90 watchmakers lathe. This is pretty much it for now, in terms of Mac binging machines. I didn’t the pinion cutting attachment too
On the advice of this video I bought a copy of the Archie Perkins lathe book. It is far and away the best most complete information source on watchmaker lathes that I have seen so far. There is a wealth of explanation on the use of numerous accessories that are no longer made but always seem to be available for sale on sites such as Ebay.
I am also sad to report that this morning I just learned that Archie Perking passed away a year ago in February 2017 at the age of 93.
david
Hi david, yes that is very sad :( He has left a great resource to the world. I hope to try and help spread his excellent knowledge and advice
The Sincere Lathe is a quality product and a great choice for many reasons. So many people have chosen to buy used traditional brands only to find that accessories are not available, and when they are, they are in bad shape. The basic Sincere lathe is still only around $700.00 which includes a cross slide and collet holding lever tail stock. All the accessories including a complete collet set (1-80) can be purchased at a later date at a reasonable cost.
david
This is true David. I have a Sincere lathe also, as seen in the art of screwmaking videos. However, each lathe has it's pros and cons. Buying new and having accessories on hand for when you are financially ready is great, especially when you know what the price will be.
Great advice on lathe book choices. I collect old watchmaker's tool catalogs as it often tells you what that mystery tool or lathe attachment is for.
Stick with an 8mm collet lathe, also known as a WW lathe. They are the most common lathe type and easiest to find parts for. Most American watchmakers never used the tail stock or the crossslide. Levin or Boley are the best common lathe makers that use the more stable American style bed. As for collets, you need individual sizes up to 12 and even sizes after that. Lathes are dear when you start watchmaking and then seem to just show up the longer you are in the business.
Love the razor blade tip, very imformative.
Mohammed Viram,
The Harbor Freight (Central Machinery) lathe is a small engine lathe and not a watchmaker lathe. In general, engine lathes improve as their size increases up to a 15 inch swing. A small engine lathe is still an engine lathe and a smaller size has a negative effect on the performance of the machine. A watchmaker lathe and an instrument lathe are extremely high precision machines designed to successfully produce small high precision parts. The Cowel's lathe that Dean DK has is an instrument lathe. The currently produced Levin and Derbyshire lathes are also instrument lathes. instrument lathes and watchmaker lathes typically have a spindle runout from .0002 inches to .oooo50 inches. Instrument lathes are also not to be confused with small molded aluminum bed desktop hobby lathes made from remelted aluminum cans. Watchmaker lathes and instrument lathes are machines that can hold extreme tolerances that have ramifications from concentricity to surface finish. An engine lathe is designed with a different purpose in mind. This does not mean that one machine is bad and the other machine is good, it simply means that the machines are designed to produce different types of parts.
david
Great info, I should have probably viewed this video before I bought a lathe on a whim. 😬
Anyhow, where can I find that collet spreadsheet? Thanks.
Thank you for the tip on the book "The Modern Watchmakers Lathe & How To Use It" by Archie B Perkins
. It is what I have been looking for to learn the different attachments and how to use them. Now if only I can find a book about vintage Watchmakers and Clock makers tools and how identify and how to use them, I will be well on my way to applying this new knowledge.
You’re welcome James, thanks for watching and commenting. I’m currently overseas at the moment, but when I get back I will show a book you may be interested in for your tool needs
One of your older videos, Dean, but relevant. Nice one, thank you!
Thank you Geoffrey! Appreciate it
Thank you very much for this video. It was enlightening.
Thank you for this really useful video. Is the Collet Spreadsheet something you put together or is it downloadable?
Hi Dean
Great tips, love this video. can you make a video on the tools and the lathe your are using?
thanks
Hi Suhaib, thanks for watching and your feedback. I will definitely put that on the list of videos 🙏🏼🙏🏼😁
You are a champion for making this video
Dean great job. I am total greenhorn looking to purchase first lathe. I also would like a copy of the collet data sheet.Do you have a printable link for this information? Thanks
Hi Joyce, at the time of this I had a website where it was hosted. I will try to find and upload to my new website. This maybe a few months though, as I need to get my website in order. Really sorry about that
Many thanks for your time, video and links, I am a newbie here, looking to learn.
Dean - thanks for the great videos. Do you own a sincere lathe as shown in the video? What do you think about it if so?
Watched all ur videos. Fantastic to watch. Ur passion shines through. Im a cnc machinist and have a mini manual mill with a rotary wheel at home. Wondering if I could make the same parts at home on my mill. Is the mini lathe just a prefered machine to use for watch makers or is it essential over a mini mill?? I wonder as a person with little watch experience.
Thanks for watching all my videos and taking to the time to comment. Sorry about the delay in my response. I think you would just need a accurate mill in terms of spindle runout, and being able to precisely locate holes. There are old Swiss Manual Jig Borer's made for watchmakers, which I would love to use to make the same thing I'm making on the lathe.
@@DeanDKnp and very cool. I have never heard of a jig borer. I will look into those. Appreciate the feed back. I know it's early but I would love to buy a watch from u if u have goals to making multiples. Love ur work and content. Keep the dream alive! 🎆
Dean,
You have failed to mention excellent book on lathes by Hans Jendritzki "The Watchmaker and his Lathe" where Jendritzki covers some aspects of the watchmaker's lathes that Archie Perkins did not cover.
Nice book reference list. I've had a Derbyshire lathe with headstock and tailstock that I picked up for $20, but no tool rest or motor came with it. What size motor is on your machine? What rpm's does a watchmakers lathe usually run at? Any help would be appreciated.
+ThunderDog Sorry about the delayed reply. For my American watchmakers lathe I use an electric scooter motor. The motor should have sufficient torque, unlikr sewing machine motors that many use. The rpms do not need to be high, usually turn at 400 rpm. I think a motor around max 1000 rpm would be sufficient.
Hello buddy or you do not know what is the name of the lathe from my last video I'm looking for information. Best regards
Aweome video. I am entirely new to this pursuit and I really appreciate your insights 🤙🏾
Excellent advice Dean. Thanks for all your work and time.
Great series of videos! Can you help with a few points please? First, I think you mentioned (in another video) references of where to buy the sharpening stones for gravers? I cannot locate the links, so could you post here? Secondly, the points when selecting a lathe don't mention anything about the motor. What power do you recommend and what other specs should it meet (shaft speed, single or variable etc)?
Some great references! I've started reading the de Carle book as my introduction. I bought my Lorch lathe with lots of accessories from ebay in December. Think it's all in relative good working order. Alignment is good. Sad thing is that there was no 3jaw chuck, only a large face plate. I figured to use that for larger items, but it touches the bed 😡. Strange as it really seems to be part of the original box.
Steve Koll If the box accomodates the faceplate, it may belong. I would research you Lorch model as I have seen gap bed attachments which allows larger work to be turned close to headstock. Thanks for the feedback, also let me know how you are going, and if there anything I can show that might help. Cheers!
thanks for the videos, I'm a recent graduate and now with a job and my own space I'm looking to get into watchmaking as a hobby. you're videos are a real insight. do you have a recommended lathe for a first watchmaking lathe?
+oli696969 You're welcome, thanks for watching :) Congratulations on new job and own space, you're on your way now after graduating! Unfortunately it's hard for me to recommend a lathe, because there other factors like budget and what your plans are for the lathe which are probably the most important, then questions like do you want a first then upgrade later etc. If you are worried about buying a used, there ones you can buy new from China aren't too bad. There are watchmaking schools in the U.S. using them. I'm going to do a review of my Sincere lathe most likely next week sometime. If you have twitter, DM me if you want to discuss further.
@@DeanDK hi, could you please share the same with me. Even I just got started into Watchmaking, so which Lathe do I go with first. I am a total newbie.
@@BikashDebnath Hi Bikash Debnath. I wish to share what I have done in similar situations, when internet connectivity and such resources were non-existant.
With a little access to a primitive machine shop, I made a square section machined and ground cast iron bed, about 3/4 " x 12 "long. From scrap yard found 2 nos pneumatic cylinder rod end clevises which had reamed 5/8" bores. The seat for square bed was milled with both clevises mounted on a common mandrel, and a corner clamp ensured a reasonably co-axial alignment of the bores. For tailstock, Engine valve guides and ground spindle With taper mounted drill chuck were adopted. The main spindle ran on bronze plain bushes by a single groove pulley at the front end, which also doubled up as a chuck. End play was set by a locking collar at rear end.
The trials were surprisingly accurate and encouraging to try some fine and detailed experimental work, nearly approaching watchmaking scales. Runout could not be measured with my available micrometre or dial indicator of 0.01mm least count.
Although not in serious watchmaking I am enjoying trying out myself in small parts machining, hobby work and model making work.
I can now see of so many available equipment, but am enjoying something out of nothing much spent.
Of course much time and effort can be saved for more useful work nowadays at a nominal cost, hence making by self is only but a self rewarding experience.
@@ashishdas2544 hi Ashish, it is simply superb to read your experience. Where are you based out of. Can we connect over WhatsApp 91688-34533
@@DeanDK, I'm looking to buy a Sincere soon. I know there are issues and limitations, and some workarounds/improvements. I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences with it. Did you ever post your review?
Keep up the great work! It's been interesting and informative watching your progress. Thanks for sharing it with us.
As I just start being interested in watchmaking and looking and browsing through all the information, including lathe sales (I know that a lathe is not among the first starter tools needed, just looking out of interest) my question is:
Are these, Boley and others, lathes being made and sold new anymore? Can't find them new! On the Watch Repair Channel he says that he bought a cheaper lathe made in Asia but I can't find ANY brand new ones.
Can someone answer this?
Thanks a lot for the tips. I am knew into this art and I was wondering If Boley, Wittcomb & Home Constructed Collet Sets are compatible with Watch-Craft Jewelers Lathe C & E Marshall. Thank you
+Alexandre Pizem Thanks for your question. Sorry about the delayed reply. Boley won't fit a Marshall lathe. Is the motor on your lathe Watch-Craft? On paper a WW Sherline collet will fit, only buy one initially to test if it fits. You can purchase these new.
Collet compatibility can be tricky at times.
Dean you are very insightful, we love our micromachine lathes and you are sharing a great help to us all, either for the beginner not knowing or to remind the rest of us that do not know it all after all.
Hi Dean, I have a Kendrick lathe that uses Peerless collets. I believe the collets are 8 mm I am going to put a 2.5" chuck on it from Shearline. Any idea as to who would currently makes an adaptor to fit? Thanks, Ron B
Sherline also sells adapters too.
Fast and informative. Brilliant job, man!
That was very useful information. Thanks.
Fantastic video. Thank you very much
Great advice. Thank you!
I have never had a problem returning anything on eBay if I wasn’t satisfied with the quality.
Thank you for the informative video.
Good Stuff , as i am looking for a lathe this was very helpful.
Hi Dean,
Can Sherline lathe be used to perform watchmaker jobs or a Watchmakers lathe is mandatory?
Hi Siddhesh, there is a lot of debate online. I have never used or seen a Sherline lathe in the flesh, so I don’t know and therefore I really can’t make a comment, I’m sorry I know it’s the answer you are looking for, I just don’t know and don’t want to lie. 😁
@@DeanDK Hi Dean, thank you for reply 😊. While I searched elsewhere, I found some NAWCC people use Sherline for all watchmaking jobs. I guess Sherline is more famous in US. On one of the forums it is said that "its not the machine, its the machinist that makes a difference"
Great reply! I agree... People have been making clocks and watches for many hundreds of years without our blessed "modern" precision. The person is the watchmaker, not the machine. 👍
I get confused over this, at some point I will need a clockmakers lathe, especially if I want to repair broken off pivots on arbors. I assume most watchmakers lathe are too small for repairing and making clock parts, like cutting wheels etc. I do have a bushing tool now which is great, I use it at least once a week.
Dean, I just bought a Boley lathe... how do i know what model is it?
+SemiDevilish Hi, hmmm best thing would be looking for any names or marking on thr lathr and search google. Or browse through the lathes.co.uk under boley
Could you please make a video on how to remake a collet chuck pin?
Hi there! I will definitely try to! Thanks for watching and commenting
Does anyone know how loud generally watchmakers lathes are? I live in a flat and would love to get one, but I am unsure on if it would be too loud for that. I appreciate any info.
the only real noise generated is from the drive belt motor which is less noisy than a hairdryer, its quite a relaxing whiring noise, even milling components is very quiet,
This video really has extremely good advice. I congratulate you on putting the finger on some of the more important ones. My bit of advice is to buy locally if possible, rather than over the internet. Daniel
p.s. just subscribed!
Thanks Daniel! Good advice too! :)
thanks mate
Can one find a new lathe?
Does anyone know if a Myford ML7 lathe would be good enough for watch making?
If you want to make granddad watches, maybe but it is awfull big, I know I have one
@Ben Hough
For watch repair ML7 is too big. However, for watchmaking one would need a lot of tools and accessories that cannot be bought so the ML7 will fit the task perfectly. But, you would still need a smaller lathe 8 mm or 10 mm even both, all depending on what you shall be making.
yes I has buy a superadept hobby lathe he is in restoration and is go to finilisee I have an other and he havent numbers no name I see it good but I havent reference
Frankenlathe. ^^
What lathe did you end up buying? Also what other machines for watchmaking do you have?
Hey Thomas, I ended up with the Cowells CW90 watchmakers lathe. This is pretty much it for now, in terms of Mac binging machines. I didn’t the pinion cutting attachment too
so .. you like...
spend your days
just buying watchmakers lathes ?
Bunch of crooks on the Ebay . . . .Dont buy from Ebay