My WinXP PC get's a new mainboard.
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- Опубликовано: 24 фев 2022
- This is a videos report about an upgrade of my Windows XP machine, which I am using for gaming, experimenting and testing of hardware. This is a machine, which I built some time ago and it served me pretty well, but now I got an opportunity to upgrade the mainboard from Socket 754 Asus K8V-MX/S to Socket 939 ASRock 939A8X-M. Let's see which problems I had to solve this time.
Patreon:
/ necroware 
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The reason for similar performance compared to the previous socket 754 build is that both CPUs are actually nearly identical, despite the different + rating (3200+ vs 3000+). They both run at an identical real clock speed of 2.0 GHz and both have 512 kB of L2 cache. The socket 939 CPU is manufactured using a smaller process node, 90 nm versus 130 nm for the 754 part, but as I remember it was pretty much just a straight die shrink without any architectural changes to improve IPC. The only meaningful difference that affects performance is that socket 939 runs HyperTransport at 1000 MHz and supports dual channel memory, while socket 754 runs HT at 800 MHz and only supports single channel memory. That's where the 200 higher + rating comes from, but in practice actual performance difference was often minimal between single and dual channel memory. Different chipsets and bios settings between you two motherboards are likely to affect performance as much if not more than the one additional memory channel.
Where the main difference between the CPUs lies is in power consumption and of course when you try overclocking them. The 130 nm Newcastle core of the 3000+ CPU typically maxes out around 2.3 or 2.4 GHz. With the 90 nm Venice based 3200+ you can probably squeeze an additional 400 or 500 MHz more out of it.
The vintage computers in repairing are always more interesting than good ones, maybe ;)
Man, i remember the BEAST that my A64 3200+ was.
Many good times I had with it.
That mismatched DIMM issue is so insidious for online purchases, great callout on verification (when you get the parts); I'd have normally taken one look at those two and went "Cool a pair of DDR2 DIMMS" and put them into my parts collection without a second thought. Now I'll have second thoughts.
As well you should, because those aren’t DDR2 modules at all! They’re just plain DDR. 😉
Fair point lol.
I love that vibrating colors of older Hardware. Just supernice.
Happily re-watching your videos, looking forward to some new ones.
A good Friday. New Necroware video!
Danke Bruder. Machst meine Tage besser :)
Freut mich zu hören!
Your video brought back very good memories: My first socket 939 motherboard was a beautiful A8N SLI Premium, I think it is the most complete motherboard I had in my life, I had put an Athlon 64 3200 but soon I changed it for an X2 4400 with 2mb of cache, for the time it was a beast!
Really enjoyed this video. I ran a S939 3500+ with a Gainward GF 6800GT GLH. Great memories. Never ran across a board that balanced timings against mhz. Very annoying. Looking forward to next video.
11:26 Love how completely worthless the help text is for that setting. “Sure, who *wouldn’t* want better RAM compatibility?”
BIOS help is always just a troll. If you didn’t know what the option did before, you don’t know any better now, _and_ you’re mad at the dude who took the time to write help text, and after careful consideration, landed on that unhelpful nonsense.
Awesome work and explanations! This reminds me of my last AGP system i´ve had years ago wich was a Jetway N2U-400-A using a Sempron 2200+ overclocked to 2Ghz and 2*1GB DDR400 Modules with fast timings and last but not least the legendary budged gaming graphics card XFX Geforce 6600GT :-)
I've not been a big fan of Asrock in, like, ever. Let's see how this board does for you... It sounds like you might have gotten it to work well enough for your use case. Interesting. Thanks for sharing, as always.
Honestly I don't blame the ASRock board for its special memory feature slowing down the memory clock. Today's ASRock is very different from ASRock 15-20 years ago.
Back in the days ASRock was known to offer boards for very competitive prices. And it was known to sell quirky boards meant for system upgrades. Those boards combined features from different generations of platforms. This allowed to upgrade a PC over time without having to replace multiple components at once just because a new board wouldn't support older standards/interfaces anymore.
I remember that nobody aiming for maximum performance chose an ASRock board in those days. But a lot of people who weren't all about ultimate performance but were looking for specific upgrades within a limited budget loved those boards because they were able to keep most of their components.
Back in the days you could run into a lot of compatibility problems. Memory was notoriuos for causing problems as Dual Channel still was relatively new technology, memory wasn't exactly cheap and thus many people combined different memory sticks (brand, size, clock, timings) which often caused stabilitsy issues. Also the integration of memory controllers in the CPUs instead of in the North Bridges wasn't exaclty a smooth transition.
With the memory "safety" feature ASRock tried to avoid people running into these problems. I think it was a clever move because a litte less performance is better than system crashes.
For your cooler fan issue there might be a simple workaround which was quite popular in the S939 era: Just undervolt the fan. Instead of 12V you can reduce the speed by supplying it with 7V or even 5V (as long as it spins up with 5V and temperatures are ok). Have a look here: www.technikpedia.de/pc-hardware/pc-luefter-von-12volt-auf-7-oder-5-volt-herunterregeln.html
That's why i liked ASRock boards a lot back in the day. My older brother used to scrap a lot of pc parts from "not working" machines, so i got my hands on different types of ram for free. I had a board SDR & DDR slots and later on i got a board with DDR & DDR2 slots, which i replaced later on with a DDR2 & DDR3 board, it was very interesting to me. At one point i can recall having a Board with both AGP & PCIE slots from ASRock. They had the most intersting mainboards in my opinion. ASRock still has some cheap solutions, that runs stable (at least for me), but i rarely see some weird/interesting combinations of different generations of hardware.
ah, the good old "Flexibility" Option for DRAM in ASROCK Boards that reduce the Memory Clock...
Good Old days...
Have still my Asrock 939Dual Sata2 with 2*GSkill 1GB ,for the Cooling i use a Thermalright SI-120.
This Board has AGP and PCIe so i used my old x800xt until i bought a X1900XT (with Zalman VF900 Cu Cooler).
Still a Silent and fast System for his age.
Only my two Samsung Spinpoint Sp2504C (250 GB) Sata drives are dead.
I made some $ on a PC for retro gaming. I was given a Dell workstation with the fastest Pentium 4 Extreme Edition CPU. It needed the CPU voltage caps replaced. I happened to have some RAM of the right type to max it out and an AGP GeForce FX5200 that was much better than the basic workstation card it came with. IIRC the hard drive was large enough. I sold it for $125 to a guy who was looking for a super Win XP machine just to play one specific older wargame that didn't play nicely with Vista or newer.
very interesting motherboard issues
what will happen if you install memory in interveeving banks (1 and 3 or 2 and 4) will it still report dual channel mode or will it downgrade to single channel mode?
there might be a bug in a bios that reports number of used memory cjhannels wrong i actually seen that in old msi board from our school old european union project
well the boards are red , with blue and green memory slots but otherwise very similar
and they really do go crazy with memory channels
i was comparing it to fm2 athlon x2 4200 in single channel ddr2 800 it was pretty much the same performacne as the old one but those memory configs got wierd, s939 board always reported dual channel mode regardless if i had it installed in slots 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 but read speed doubled bin 1 and 3 compared to 1 and 2 and board only reorted single channel if only one memory stick was in
next week i might go and retest it but that is all i remember about those pc's from 2005 or 2006. later revision of the program got vista/pentium dual cores, still compatybile with xp but no agp
It should defineatly be single channel mode. Athlon 64's paired the sticks right next to each other. At least mine always did. The reason for the read speed being so effected was in single channel mode, it will run with a command rate of 1T but in dual channel it will default to Command rate 2T. It needs to be manually set back to 1T.. Which should be possible with only 1 dim per channel. Not usually with 2 though.
best retro system i've had was am2+ with an 5050e athlon in it.
it only had tdp like 45w, and could fit all the modern coolers so i had big tower cooler running completely silent.
the motherboard had all the new and legacy ports to be a perfect stopcap between new and old, like when reading/writing floppies from todays pc.
if you want noiseless retro, i suggest trying out 5050e or 4850e athlons they are awesome
socket am2 was where the performance jumped.
i clearly remember my old msi k9vgm-v fitted with an athlon 64 3500+, a gig of ddr2 800mhz ram and a modest but capable ati radeon x550. i really enjoyed playing on that pc.
Funny to see that you were previously using the same motherboard as my old Windows XP build, Just to buy the same motherboard in my current Windows XP build haha. I have my asrock motherboard paired with a Athlon 64 X2 4400+ and an HD 3850 AGP and its a beast of a machine for XP stuff.
Some boards (nf chipsets) can require to go to "mem remap" for above 3gb of ram being seen as correctly as 4.
So odd to see so much of my first desktop's hardware here. Actually I think it was a little older, as it was an Athlon XP something, in a Compaq Presario. I do recall it had that exact X1650 Pro AGP card, which I eventually upgraded to the last AMD (Sorry, ATI then!) AGP card, a 3870.
Of course then it got replaced with a Phenom X6 1100T, and we all know how it went for AMD for the next decade or so...
AFAIK, DDR memory loves low latency (one manufacturer did an module with 1.5 cas latency!) but you had your memory at 2t command rate, that timing was used for high memory overclocking (like Samsung's tccd modules) but for normal use 1t command rate is always the best option.
ASRock capacitor plague is legendary. Need to re-cap those suckers at some point.
You should also disable spread spectrum in the BIOS. It is set to auto by default which means it will likely be enabled. Having it enabled usually hurts performance a little.
nice, also have a asrock dual quad i was in doubt regarding that "flexibility option" setting in bios options. Thanks!
BTW, ide to sata adaptor was not an option for 1st motherboard?
change the board multiplier to manual mode, set the FBS to 400hz and the multiplier to 5. Disables CPU clock control modes.
So the FBS and the memories are on the same frequency and speed ratio 1/1 .This way you will get a little more performance.
Like you can use tl317 to control the fan speed
Its too cheap and easy to setup
And you can choose the speed of the fan by it
Between the Athlon XP and Ryzen CPUs, AMD's performance didn't advance by leaps and bounds. While there is a considerable performance difference between the first Socket 939 and last Socket AM3 CPUs, it was a long and shallow climb getting there, with each new CPU core revision not being that big of an improvement over its predecessor. I went from a quad core Phenom II to a 6 core "bulldozer" and at best of the various benchmarks there was a 20% improvement. All the others were much less. In CPU HEVC encoding it went from 6 frames per second to 7. The board was an Asrock 770 Extreme 3.
So I started making plans for an all new (except the video card and some drives) desktop. Ryzen 5 3600, 32 gig RAM, 1TB PCIe NVME Ultra SSD boot drive. Board is an Asrock B450 Pro 4. GPU is GTX 1050. Got it for $100 before GPU prices went nutzo. The thing is like owning a cheap house. I could sell it at a decent profit but then I couldn't afford to replace it with a better one. 5-ish year old GPUs should not be selling for hundreds of dollars! I just want the earliest/lowest cost one with a version of nVenc that does B-frames.
If I were to build a "new" XP system at this time, I'd go for something with a PCIe slot, because the AGP cards are hard to get by and expensive if they're any good.
I have some parts from an old computer myself, but really unable to use it without a new AGP card. I find it hard to justify the prices on those cards.
Windows XP is such an odd duck retro wise, you could put it on an Ivy Bridge Core i7-3770K with a GeForce GTX 780 Ti, GTX 960 or a Kepler Titan and it would work totally supported by drivers.
I agree on the Socket 775 thing tho, that's what my current retro system is on. Be careful with Intel Desktop Boards tho, Intel purged all their drivers and bioses for those boards in 2019 from their website entirely.
Hey dude keep going. I like your works. ANyway, where do you live?
Planet Earth, Solar System
the x1650 has a agp translater too so it isnt as fast as the true pcie brother its odd
as for the SATA "Bug" of the VIA Chipset:
It basically affects ALL SATA1 chipsets or almost all. Intel, nVidia are affected by it as well as some PCI SATA Controller as well.
Well, the usual mess with Version 1 ;-)
I had a similar experience when upgrading my 98 machine, moved from a early p4 to a core duo and didn't really get the bump in performance I thought I would.
Possibly the slow or damaged PATA HDD is a cause. Sometimes damaged or too slow SATA HDD makes trouble too. I moved from P4 to C2D several times and always had visible or measurable performance speed-up.
Cool motherboard I think I have a bit newer one that had a senpron and put a Athlon x2
did you try changing the fan settings in speed fan one of the tabs lets you change the type of fan detected PWM or RPM if my memory serves me right.
speed fan is really odd on some systems in some cases you have to mess with the advance settings tab to get fan control to work
I woder if they have extension cables/converters that can convert sata 2 to sata 1?
All you got to do, is install a new CPU fan, curve bladed. And you can cut the positive terminal, and install an inline resistor, to manually lower the voltage, thus also the fan speed.
Also, memory timings automatically lower at lower Mhz speeds. The timings are exactly the same, but if your memory has to wait 10ns between reads, at 100Mhz that's 10 cycles, and at 200Mhz that's 20 cycles. Still the timing is the same, despite latency numbers being higher (or lower when lowering the Mhz speeds).
A doubling of memory Mhz, usually results in a 10-20% fps increase at best. It works better, if your GPU uses the RAM for Vram. But if not, memory spd does very little to fps increases.
also finished my XP build and iam very happy. Q9550, Asus P5QLD PRO, RAM 4GB 1066MHz and GTX760 2GB. For future plan is 4GB GTX960 which is last GTX card with XP drivers and maybe SSD ☺
Interesting!!!
I would use the rpm controller from PSU one.
I remember having fun always trying to match ram, but it maybe was not as bad as one would think i found that it not had to be same batch but rather the same timings and clock well at leased on the mobo i used back then, All Asus, If it was intel i would get an intel chipset, VIA for AMD or Intel i always found to have issues like you had, SIS was good but it was allot slower then an Intel chipset, for AMD we used the Nvidia Nforce chipset yes now days that seems funny,but back then AMD had dreams of buying ATI.
I noticed in the video the kingston and gskill had different timings. "i could be wrong i think that was maybe the first time gskill made ram modules and further more i think they used SK Hynix on some of the modules.
Have you installed the Amd cool & quiet driver ?that might slow the fan down in the os.
also been trying to updated my 754 system. A while back i upgraded from a Sempron 2800 to a Athlon64 3400. Ive been trying to upgrade the graphics from a 6200. I can only fit a single slot agp card and i found a 7300 gt at a decent price. While the card works the performance is really bad, quake3 at 160 vs 35 fps.
If i were to change systems id try to go for pcie, the prices are so much lower.
Absolutely agree. If s.o. wants to build a cheap Windows XP machine, I'd go with PCIe as well. But I needed explicitly an AGP system.
I've had this problem with memory in the past the heat sink covers up the chips and they can be seperate
I doubt this is the right place to ask but for some reason CPU-Z on the SPD tab reports all of my RAM as 0 Mhz and with some really scuffed timings. CAS Latency displays correctly, but RAS# to CAS#, tRAS etc. all display the negative 32 bit integer limit of -2.17 million? Seeing as my computer continues to run fine however I think it just means CPU-Z is failing to poll my hardware correctly.
Should note it displays just fine on the Memory tab with it actually showing the 1600 MHz frequency, just the SPD tab is scuffed.
CPUz may have also given you a 2nd clue about the lack of speed uplift. Maybe... I'll get to the maybe in a second. What I spotted in your video is that the HT Link (Hyper Transport) was running at only 800MHz. I believe the 939 3200+ should be using a 1000MHz HT Link speed. Now to the maybe. From my experience overclocking with those chips and boards back in the day. The HT Link speed didn't play a huge role in the overall speed of the system. But heck, more speed is more speed. Right?
The Asus board is almost certainly a proprietary one (probably from an HP) and they use a cooler meant to work with their temperature fan speed control; put that same cooler on another board and it will run at full speed all of the time. I had this issue when I replaced a failing (because of bad capacitors) HP Nettle 2 mainboard with a nearly identical ECS one.
I used a standard cooler.
Find a dfi lanparty 939, loved mine back in the day with OCZ Flex: PC2-9600
With the Command Rate (CR) set to 2T the performance may suffer a lot. Try switching it to 1T if the BIOS allows.
Although not every S939 setup is stable with CR set to 1T having the latest E6 Venice CPU should help.
Ага, вот оказывается зачем эта перемычка! ) Для меня АМД это Атлон ХП + nForce, а дальше уже Core 2... ) Чиспет от ULi конечно полная дичь, но ведь это АсРок... ) Отличная сборка, получил удовольствие!
Where did you get a Graphics card? I recently looked for a cheap PCI-E and the cheapest I found was a 100€ crap.
I would trade some of my AGP leftovers for a 5450 radeon (or nvidia 210) right now. I could even add an ISA UMC, FFS...
The dimms should be in the slots closer to the CPU. They are also clock determined by dividing the total cpu clock, and not bus speed. So often CPUZ will report the clock of the dims when the cpu is stepped down in powersaving clocks. Because it will not always change the memory clock divider on the fly.
The mainboard documentation suggest to fill the outer slots first. I was also surprised, unfortunately they don't explain why, so I tried both without any difference.
@@necro_ware That is very interesting. Going through the video again I noticed CPUZ is reporting the appropriate divider for the given memory clock, but I don't know if its getting actual register values or just doing some math. The board is probably just using terrible settings as you suggested.
When I built my brothers AM2 system with a 4600x2 (2.4ghz) and I set it up so that CnQ was working correctly, he fired up cpuz after I had left his place and phoned me to yell and complain to me that his expensive 800mhz ram was running at 150mhz or something.... I asked him to flip to the other page where it was showing an 800 or 1000mhz cpu clock. Then flip back and got him to see the cpu divider. Then got him to do something that taxed the cpu while he watched thememor page, and it bounced back up to the higher value that was close to 400... cant remember, lol... I had to also show him what DDR means... lol
And he just replied... "oh".
At least I got a 6 pack of beer out of that phone call.
I had no idea that the flexibility option caused the system to choose tighter timings over faster speeds. I have several systems with this enabled and now I know to disable it. Thanks for the video!
Maybe the bug was on XP sp3 but not on sp2. It happen with USB before the sp1 too.
I think the reason you were not noticing much difference between the boards was because you were using pretty much running the highest 754 setup possible and you are now using just about the weakest s939 setup possible. There are much better CPUs available for decent prices for that 939 board. Even a 3700x2 dual core would run much faster. You should be able to get a major boost for relatively cheap off of Ebay. I use the 4200x2 CPUs in my s939 PCs as I think they are a blend of good power, multi-threading, and cost effectiveness. I'd also step up the GPU to something like a HD4850 or HD5830 card to add some serious gaming bang for the buck in WinXP. You can push it all the way to a GTX780 for XP if you got some money to burn : )
I am looking for some more modern MB with AGP slot for a long time and I still can't find any sc 939 or sc 775 boards which still have AGP, ofcourse, there are on eBay, but prices are crazy there, I prefer local sellers from my country. The best I have is sc478 (with 3 GHz Prescott) and sc 754 with Sempron 3000+ (I am looking for some Athlon 64), but I have problem with second board when I put HD4650 there, performance is very limited, even moving with windows is delayed and laggy and I still can't figure out where is the problem. Any idea? That GPU works totaly fine in that Pentium 4 sc 478 build and it worked fine even with AGP 4x boards with Tualatin and some Athlon 1600+ which is pretty crazy combination, but I tried it and no problem with that, so what's the problem with that sc 754 board? Is it possible that Sempron lacks some feature which is needed for these late AGP cards? When I put X1650 to that sc754 MB, it works totaly fine.
I want some more modern MB with AGP slot (which can accept even dual cores) for no reason, I just want it, I know these boards existed, but it's very rare. I saw a guy on youtube who had Core 2 Quad together with AGP card, so it's possible to have such combination. I want to test all those AGP cards with no CPU bottleneck. 😀
That 754 board has nvidia chipset, which I guess is the problem, I always had some problems with nvidia chipsets. I will probably stay with Pentium 4 for my AGP build, those motherboards with intel 865 chipset are reliable and work totaly fine.
BTW, some sellers of old HW are just thieves who go to scrap yard and pull out HW from rusty computers with using force, I totaly hate it, it's always so sad to see HW in such condition as some sellers are sending it to me. 🙂
I managed to get my hands on an asus p5pe-vm, too bad agp card are too hard to find and expensive where I live, this board even has gigabit ethernet, runs core 2 extreme
you can use an arduino promicro as a fan controller. you can power the controller directly via the 12v on the fan header into its RAW pin or use a usb header on the motherboard. you can then use timer4 in 10-bit pwm mode to get 25000hz pwm to output to PB6/OC4B and control the fan speed by pwm. you can attach an ntc thermistor to the arduino with just one resistor to control the fan speed via temperature sensing. i have the code for generating 25000hz pwm on github if you're interested.
Yeah. That would be a funny way to solve it, but it would be also quite an overkill :)
@@necro_ware Ha. Indeed. Running the fan in the 5v line or the old 12v "positive" and 5v "negative" to get 7v across the fan is probably sufficient without any performance loss.
960 thumbs up!
I never tried comparing that compatibility mode thing until recently and was quite puzzled at the weir speed my memory was running... Right now I'm tinkering with an AM2 motherboard with AGP also from ASROCK (AM2NF3-VSTA) but I'm using an "overkill" CPU, a Phenom II X4 965BE and 1066DDR2 RAM... I can test a similar board to yours, an Asrock S939 that also use ULI chipset and feature both AGP and PCIE not sure about what S939 CPU and video card could try.
Def 8800gt or 8800gtx!
@@waytostoned I still have to test a 7600GT AGP and right now I'm testing an ATI 3850AGP on the AM2 board, never heard of an 8800 on the AGP bus.
@@RetroTinkerer Doh meant 7800gs. Total brainfart lol.
where do you usually buy PC scrap like obsolete sound cards, motherboards etc. if I can ask
Ebay
I have an ASUS K8V Deluxe mainboard, Athlon64 3700+ CPU and ATI X800XT PE AGP in my XP AGP PC. Ask for benchmark results and I will be happy to provide.
Try installing the current memory sticks in slots 1 and 3 (I'm going by BIOS ordering), most times the two memory channels are placed on different colored slot pairs. Socket 939 is an excellent choice for early XP and even late 98 games. I use my ASUS A8V-MX with an Athlon 64 3000+ and a Geforce 4 Ti 4200, it makes an excellent dual boot retro gaming solution (I can even run Win98 natively from a SATA hdd)
I tried to play with the memory in different slots. 1/3 means single channel, 1/2 and 3/4 means dual channel on this board.
@@necro_ware Yeah, this was IIRC common (though not universal) on DDR and DDR2 motherboards like these, different trace lengths to the channels really didn't matter that much at these low frequencies and signal routing is easier that way (less layers needed so cheaper).
The reason the A88XM that @linoxyard mentions uses interleaved memory slots is because it's a... DDR3 motherboard and those almost? always did that because the frequencies are so much higher for DDR3. Timing gets even more strict on DDR4 which is what most people are familiar with these days. And DDR5 is insane (and using two slots per channel is, well, highly not recommended).
@@Torbjorn.Lindgren It's a DDR1 motherboard from 2005, not DDR3
@@linoxyard Yeah, got misled by Google and didn't look closely enough (missed an extra 8). There doesn't seem to be any web references for an Asus motherboard with that name, even Asus has no references to it and they've got plenty of motherboards that are much older than that still in listed - they still have at least some of their 486 motherboards findable via search!
Are you sure it's not the Asrock A8X-M (aka 939A8X-M), it's the only motherboard named A8X-M Google can find and it would support that CPU, GPU and memory?
If not you may have something rather rare, it's probably still not valuable though.
@@Torbjorn.Lindgren My bad, the model is A8V-MX. It's a socket 939 mATX mobo based on the VIA K8M800 chipset and a SATAII capable southbridge
athlon 64 3200+ on 939 has HT link at 1ghz. why is yours running at 800mhz? :)
11:55 what's the name of the game?
Excited to see the upgrade.
The VGA is the bottleneck for sure.
Then overclock the CPU if possible.
You should be able to hit 20k+ score in 3DMark2001.
Hardware like that can dual boot with Win98 (there are chip-set drivers).
Best AGP VGA is Ati X850 XT and Nvidia 6800 Ultra (with support for w98).
you need one stick of ram needs to be in ddr1 slot and the other ddr3 slot to get full duel channel
How to keep an archaic zombie alive! 😂
Lga775 is probably the best modern windows xp platform. A core 2 duo or quad should be way way over powered for anything windows xp can use.
Ironically those are even good for w10
I wanted to use such a PC for Windows XP.
Gigabyte P35, Core 2 Quad Q9300 @3,0 Ghz, 4GB DDR2, 7900 GTX, 120GB SSD.
But I failed at activating Windows XP because no way to activate it was longer supported.
Now I write this comment on this PC running MX Linux, a HD 7770 and 8GB RAM. Runs great.
@@Schattennebel u can get offline activation or pirated copy
@@KuntalGhosh
I tried online activation, I tried telephone activation, I tried change the Registry... All of it failed.
But since I already had a good XP PC I didn't mind.
also ... EDIT ..it seems that amnesia is cought me..... - my bad ..it was so long..
you mean that voletile vn ram . i swaped nforce 2 board for someone with nforce 4 few years back because they couldn't reinstall windows , so i setup them with phenom x3 instead of sempron 3800 i think but the board and hd2400 (agp with converter chip) were really fried
@@kokodin5895 yep
nope, nforce4 is for pcie (s754, s939 and am2, there's also intel edition for lga775), nforce3 is for agp.
Does anyone know how to convert a 1mbit 128kb bios to 2mbit 256k?
Happy to sponsor a AGP ATI 3850 if you are interested.
Thank you very much for the offer, but that card is too long for the case.
I have that same motherboard, but it is not stable, it only post's when it feel's like it, and when it does, most of the time just crashes and lock's up... I have SEVERAL socket 939 motherboards, With various chipset's (VIA, nVidia, ALi/ULi) and not one is 100% working... I love that socket era, but the board's are kiling it for me!
If it's multiple pcs could be power supply... Newer psu's don't like the heavy 5v agp needs.
@@waytostoned That was excluded... I have several PSU's and tested this extensively!
I know agp needs alot of 3.3v... but you tried multiple psu's. Are you using a heatsink that blows down to cool the MOSFETs? I had that issue with later am3 boards since I used a tower cooler. Perhaps check MOSFETs temp?
Imma guess, Capacitor Plague! AMD parts were considered low-end stuff and never really got the good parts, like Capacitors! (and Onboard Networking Controller IC's or Sound...)
I think I have such a GSkill DDR module. Shall I search for it?
Thank you very much for the offer, but currently it looks to be not necessary.
@@necro_ware wäre sowieso nur ein 512 MByte Modul gewesen 😅
Well, xp era pc are mostly still useable on the internet today. Not retro for me but interesting as always. Looking for a ga-486vs and fic-va503+
Not really retro for me as well. It's just all, but I need such a PC in my collection for tests and as always it is still kind of funny to build it.
Just remember, XP is over 20 years old. My first computer (laptop) that shipped with XP on it was a Pentium III.
That’s pretty retro. :-)
Maybe it doesn’t seem like it because some of us used XP for like 10 years.
@@nickwallette6201 All a matter of taste. For me it's quite simple - retro is only something with ISA slot ;) Still as I said, I enjoy to build an XP age PC sometimes as well, even if it's just "old" and not "retro"....
If I were to build an XP retro-pc today, i would use an Intel Core 2 Duo + nvidia GT 730 and call it a day. Cheap, stable, efficient, whisper-quiet, and extremely overpowered for those games. Or, if i wanted to be about period correct, an Athlon 64 with a powerful nForce or Via KT800/880 chipset. What i would not ever do is using an Asrock motherboard from that era XD, that alone might be responsible of the new 3200+ not being faster than the old 3000+
Use better latencys for the memory. You must use 1T for 2 slots. 2T for 4 slots populated.
Not wit ht his memory. 1T with DDR is not possible at all, the best ones can do 2T. The "normal" ones can handle 2.5T at best.
@@necro_ware I think he is talking about the Command Rate (CR), not CAS latency (CL).
There is no clock speed difference between the S754 and S939 CPU. They are in fact identical (2000 MHz, 512 K cache), except for the 939 having dual channel memory access.
Don't you just love AMD's performance rating numbers?
That is true, but my S754 was an A64 3000+ and the S939 an A64 3200+, that's why I was expecting to see some speedup even in single channel memory mode. With dual channel it was faster, but the GPU was a bottle neck. I already fixed that and will report back ;)
@@necro_ware You were expecting a speedup in single channel? But how? Both your CPUs run at 2.0 GHz, and the 939 is called 3200+ only because it's dual channel. The 939 versions of any A64 always got +200 on the performance rating when compared to the 754 version with the same clock speed.
So there can't be any speedup when you run your 3200+ in single channel, it basically turns into your 3000+. Also, memory bandwidth probably wasn't a big performance factor in most games back then...
@@looks-suspicious True, but to be honest, I didn't really test it in a single channel. I ran the benchmarks only in dual channel and was surprised, that the system was slower. Obviously due to half of the memory clock. In single channel, that should be just as fast as the other system with the memory at the same clock.
Where can i find windows xp latest iso download file ?
I still have the original CD
I'm guessing a 3x00 series random! Prob a 3800/3850 or maybe 4670
Almost ;)
@@necro_ware I say it's hd 3650 :)
Get a 4200 X2-cpu ( or a 4600 or 4800 ) for it.
Please seriously consider re-capping that Arock board asap!!! They are ok motherboards, cheap you get what you get. They work as expected and do the job. But any asrock from that era are riddled with cheap nasty capacitors that fail. I used to have an HTPC in our living room and I chose a specific Intel based asrock board for the job. I went through a dozen of the same board all failing the same way. The capacitors would fail, bulge, leak etc. Each and every board was re-capped and then they were solid and have been ever since.
Unfortunately I don't have time to recap everything I get into my hands. So currently the board is working very stable and should I get into problems I'll recap it. If I start to recap all of my hardware, I can close this channel :)
His fan rpm is 3960 or something mine is 6700
Hey Necroware! I know of a bunch of people here selling battery-damaged 486 boards for cheap. Do you want some sent to you?
Share the hookup! ^_^
Commandrate 2 is not that good. It should be Commandrate 1. Its a huge difference for the CPU... 4 Modules will not work without slowing down the memory clocks and commandrate, as i remeber. DDR333 CR2 was a fallback option if 4 modules are installed.
Thanks for the advice, I tried it with lower CR and also played with different CL combinations, but the system got unstable. May be with even more fine tuning I'd be able to get a bit more out of it, but since I'm also using this PC for testing and development, I'd rather sacrifice 5% of performance for stability. I got 4GB running at DDR400 and CL3. With CL2 those modules don't boot at all, even with 2GB only.
what's the point of sticking with agp for winxp system?
Building a retro PC cheap...
@@waytostoned check your prices then, old pcie cards are way cheaper than agp, so is the rest of the system - c2d lga775 can not only be really cheap retro windows xp pcs, way faster than any agp ones (you can even use gtx980ti with windows xp, you know?), you can even dual boot with current os and use them as daily office/media center pc (with cheap quad core lga771 xeon, 8GB of ram and ssd).
@@konradzydron lga775 c2q 8GDDR2 running TrueNAS core and 8xSAS/SATA HBA and a pile of 1TB's... works GUD! along with an AMD 939 3xxx Dual Core and others storing various Data Hoarding stuffs... not running all the time bu when it does they are NETWORKING Storage Server BEASTS!! though, you'd want more for VM's and Transcoding Jellyfin's.
@@zarkeh3013 add cheap maxwell gpu (gtx950 or even 750ti) and you have quite decent gaming performance, capable multimedia hardware decoding (including hevc), and hardware nvidia h.264 transcoding.
No more new videos?
As soon as the war calms down a little bit, I'll come back to the channel. Currently I spend my whole spare time helping refugees from Ukraine and Russia. I'm just not able to switch my mind back to the normal life so far.
@@necro_ware sorry . I didn’t know that you’re involved in refugee support. I thought this channel maybe has been discontinued.
@@necro_ware Glad to see you're ok, I thought the war was probably the reason why you've gone silent for a while.
CPU-Z Shows the Frequency With Half the Value its Normal. I have DDR4 3200 mhz and CPU-Z Shows 1600 mhz. You need to Double it in your Mind to get the Speed the Memory is Running on.
Exactly. DDR400 should run at 200MHz (400MHz in mind, as you say) and not 100MHz.
@@necro_ware Oh xD My mistake :D
But there are funny things happening if you try to run old Windows XP with full 4GB of memory :D Or will you run Windows XP 64bit?
When running 32-bit you will see only about 3,5GB of RAM. I don't use WinXP for internet and modern software, it is purely for the old stuff and games, so I don't need 4GB there. But I use this machine also for some more modern stuff with Linux including Browser and what not. In such case 4GB are really helpful.
XP with large amounts of RAM generally needs the SystemPages registry entry cranked up, typically to 0xFFFFFFFF. For some reason ATI graphics drivers tend to set a value too low, so funny things start happening once a lot of RAM gets used (turning on LargeSystemCache would expose the problem, for example).
Some systems also seem to misbehave with more than about 3 GiB worth of RAM, possibly RAM starts to conflict with I/O ranges or something. An MSI GX710 Turion64 17" budget gaming laptop was only ever shipped with 2 or 3 GiB of RAM, and that was 2008ish so 4 GiB wouldn't have been that outlandish. The thing doesn't support SATA AHCI either, perhaps it was disabled due to some SB600 quirks. Rather backwards for the time.
I still today buy ASUS boards.
Shows how a GPU can really bottleneck a machine that borders the threshold of its maximum performance. Unfortunately, you'll probably not do a benchmark on the ASUS machine for a comparison to the ASROCK, once the new GPU is installed. Would be interesting to see if it was bottlenecking the ASUS as well... Unless of course, you want to see for yourself...
No, unfortunately I can't do it, since I already gave away that board to another tinkerer.
going from a 754 to a 939 platform in 2022 seems a waste of time when they won't support anything newer than windows 7... these machines will pretty much just run Linux now.... what about upgrading to a AM4 platform so you can run modern software and futureproof the system....
Just extraordinary 💋 💋!! Promotion that works > Promo'SM !