Gotta say even with Starlin trying his hardest to make us hate Jason I still don't hate Jason. In the stories that are meant to make us hate Jason I get where Jason's coming from.
I'm pretty sure its called "The Killing Joke" because in stand up comedy "killing" refers to the comedian being able to connect with the audience and get laughs out of their performance. The "Killing Joke" is the joke at the end of the book when Joker finally gets a laugh out of Batman. It's not that complicated
The "killing joke" can also refer to how a shitty comedian got his skin bleached and became a murdering psychopath. Hence, becoming a joke that kills. No one's saying it's "complicated", there's just more than one interpretation.
I never got how anyone though Batman killed Joker at the end of KJ. One person tried to convince me showing me a panel that he said was "absolutely" Batman choking Joker. I had to pull out tracing paper to show him Batman would need two elbows on each arm for that to work.
@@wellspokenmonster3104 Which is fine but doesn't matter. The text itself, both in the comic and the released script make it very obvious that Batman didn't kill him. Editorial doing its job doesn't negate that.
As always, another great one :D the thing I love most about your channel is that every single time I finnish a video I always feel motivated to read Batman or read comics in general. Usually most of the attention goes to the live-action movies and while I love them, I really appreciate how you manage to bring back the focus to the actual books. Saludos desde la Carita de Dios
Jim Starlin's run defined Batman stories for decades afterwards. The KG Beast is a model for a new kind of Batman villain who was much more physically imposing and vicious than those that came before. The Cult also introduced the idea of Batman being broken. I'd say that Jim Starlin's comics were much more influential on the Batman comics than the Killing Joke was
Shame Jason's death and Barbara's disability were all undone so the Joker really accomplished nothing. Really undermines the threat of the Joker that nothing he does ever lasts.
Those were the only two good decisions of the Didio era j feel with the third being reversing Barry Allen’s death. Having the Joker do so much personal permanent harm to the character and Batman still not kill him just makes Batman look too weak and impotent. These are stories meant to go on into perpetuity forever and letting Joker accumulate so many murders of Batman’s friends and family just makes the relationship too heavy and damaged.
@@deepfriedokra I disagree completely. I also didn't like them undoing Barrys death. One of the many reasons I no longer buy modern comics. Everything just gets undone and it's all meaningless.
Great video! Always good to see some more clearing up about the fact that The Killing Joke was canon from the start. While Starlin’s limited use of Jason, his, willingness to kill him off, and his own comments on the subject definitely suggest that Starlin didn’t like Jason, I found the way that he wrote the character in A Death in the Family to be quite interesting. For a story that ultimately feels pretty rushed and contrived just so that Jason can die, I find Jason himself to be written pretty well. His motivations to find his birth mother are well-defined and sympathetic. Even after Jason is killed in the explosion, it’s emphasized that he died a hero, by shielding his mother’s body with his own even after she betrayed him. I dunno if Starlin secretly had a soft spot for the kid or if he was just being professional enough to give him a good send off, but it’s food for thought.
Fun fact, Flashpoint Beyond finally reveals the Joker's real name. His name is Jack Oswald White. It took decades but we finally got a name for the Clown prince of crime
Another great video dude. Didn't Alan Moore himself say at some point that he originally intended The Killing Joke to be an elseworlds story and that he wouldn't have paralyzed Barbara if he knew it was going to be made canon?
Regardless of what did or didnt happen in those final pages of The Killing Joke, I still hate the ending because, ultimately, the Joker won: he broke Batgirl, Gordon, and finally the Bat even if only in his sanity.
Batman is my favorite Superhero and 1988 was the year I was born and 2 stories wear The Joker "My Favorite Super Villain" was at his most Evil wore publish that year.
Catwoman storyline was published in 89. Also, death in a family was published by the end of 88 and the start of 89. I don’t really understand the way you ordered the info in this video 😅
Man. Jason really got it rough in the 80s. Seriously Jason needs real emotional support and therapy. Also Grant Morrison is non binary and uses they/them pronouns.
Their first collaboration in the Batman comics happened in the Sword of Azrael minisieries. Before that they sort of worked together in the Suicide Squad title. Cant't recall the issue atm.
Idiots: Not Canon Comics: Oracle became Oracle because she shot by the Joker wearing the same Hawaiian shirt! Booster Gold time travelled over and over to prevent the shooting. Zatanna and WW took Barbara out prior to Barbara being shot by Joker.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Gotta say even with Starlin trying his hardest to make us hate Jason I still don't hate Jason. In the stories that are meant to make us hate Jason I get where Jason's coming from.
Jason is also the hero of the Cult. Batman survives only because of Jason rescuing him
I'm pretty sure its called "The Killing Joke" because in stand up comedy "killing" refers to the comedian being able to connect with the audience and get laughs out of their performance. The "Killing Joke" is the joke at the end of the book when Joker finally gets a laugh out of Batman. It's not that complicated
The "killing joke" can also refer to how a shitty comedian got his skin bleached and became a murdering psychopath. Hence, becoming a joke that kills. No one's saying it's "complicated", there's just more than one interpretation.
I never got how anyone though Batman killed Joker at the end of KJ. One person tried to convince me showing me a panel that he said was "absolutely" Batman choking Joker. I had to pull out tracing paper to show him Batman would need two elbows on each arm for that to work.
The writer Alan More said that the Joker was supposed to be killed by Batman but Editorial changed it
@@wellspokenmonster3104 Which is fine but doesn't matter. The text itself, both in the comic and the released script make it very obvious that Batman didn't kill him. Editorial doing its job doesn't negate that.
Funny you say that when Alan Moore intended for he to be choked lmao
@@FredMaverik see my other comment
@@FredMaverik got a source for that? Because ive never heard anything like that before in any Moore interviews ive seen
As always, another great one :D the thing I love most about your channel is that every single time I finnish a video I always feel motivated to read Batman or read comics in general. Usually most of the attention goes to the live-action movies and while I love them, I really appreciate how you manage to bring back the focus to the actual books.
Saludos desde la Carita de Dios
Aguante Quito!
Jim Starlin's run defined Batman stories for decades afterwards. The KG Beast is a model for a new kind of Batman villain who was much more physically imposing and vicious than those that came before. The Cult also introduced the idea of Batman being broken. I'd say that Jim Starlin's comics were much more influential on the Batman comics than the Killing Joke was
You should do a collab with Mr Rogues
Been thinking that same thing for a while. I think they just need to find the right time and means of communication to set it up.
Mr Rogues is awesome
Man, you're swell! Been following for more than a year. Keep on!
Shame Jason's death and Barbara's disability were all undone so the Joker really accomplished nothing. Really undermines the threat of the Joker that nothing he does ever lasts.
Those were the only two good decisions of the Didio era j feel with the third being reversing Barry Allen’s death. Having the Joker do so much personal permanent harm to the character and Batman still not kill him just makes Batman look too weak and impotent. These are stories meant to go on into perpetuity forever and letting Joker accumulate so many murders of Batman’s friends and family just makes the relationship too heavy and damaged.
@@deepfriedokra I disagree completely. I also didn't like them undoing Barrys death. One of the many reasons I no longer buy modern comics. Everything just gets undone and it's all meaningless.
Love your work! As a fellow Batman fan, your videos honor him well! Keep it up!
This year is truly an isolation of Batman from his Bat-family.
And I thought Spiderman has a rough life.
Great video! Always good to see some more clearing up about the fact that The Killing Joke was canon from the start.
While Starlin’s limited use of Jason, his, willingness to kill him off, and his own comments on the subject definitely suggest that Starlin didn’t like Jason, I found the way that he wrote the character in A Death in the Family to be quite interesting. For a story that ultimately feels pretty rushed and contrived just so that Jason can die, I find Jason himself to be written pretty well. His motivations to find his birth mother are well-defined and sympathetic. Even after Jason is killed in the explosion, it’s emphasized that he died a hero, by shielding his mother’s body with his own even after she betrayed him. I dunno if Starlin secretly had a soft spot for the kid or if he was just being professional enough to give him a good send off, but it’s food for thought.
Fun fact, Flashpoint Beyond finally reveals the Joker's real name. His name is Jack Oswald White. It took decades but we finally got a name for the Clown prince of crime
Another great video dude. Didn't Alan Moore himself say at some point that he originally intended The Killing Joke to be an elseworlds story and that he wouldn't have paralyzed Barbara if he knew it was going to be made canon?
Yes
both can be true. Moore could have always thought it was going to be non canon. But also that DC planned to always keep it in continuity.
@@PowerPackers90 valid point
Regardless of what did or didnt happen in those final pages of The Killing Joke, I still hate the ending because, ultimately, the Joker won: he broke Batgirl, Gordon, and finally the Bat even if only in his sanity.
Thank you for this video, I get to annoyed and tired at people saying the Killing Joke isn't canon
1988 brought "permanent changes..." that have now been retcon... and the Batman comics are so much less because of it.
Batman is my favorite Superhero and 1988 was the year I was born and 2 stories wear The Joker "My Favorite Super Villain" was at his most Evil wore publish that year.
Another good video🦇
We need the Long Halloween analysis
Killing joke was always meant to be canon, just not to the post crisis continuity.
Catwoman storyline was published in 89. Also, death in a family was published by the end of 88 and the start of 89.
I don’t really understand the way you ordered the info in this video 😅
Meh, Bolland's art is exquisite but the story blows. I'll stick with Case Study as the Joker's origin...
Man. Jason really got it rough in the 80s. Seriously Jason needs real emotional support and therapy. Also Grant Morrison is non binary and uses they/them pronouns.
hello salazar,
in what comic oracle start working with batman??
Their first collaboration in the Batman comics happened in the Sword of Azrael minisieries. Before that they sort of worked together in the Suicide Squad title. Cant't recall the issue atm.
@@SalazarKnight thanks
Batman The Killing Joke it's one of my favourite batman comic books of all time.
Barbra Kessel? I thought her name was Barbra Randall.
I believe Randall is her maiden name.
@@bibbyboxx2219 oh okay.
Idiots: Not Canon
Comics: Oracle became Oracle because she shot by the Joker wearing the same Hawaiian shirt! Booster Gold time travelled over and over to prevent the shooting. Zatanna and WW took Barbara out prior to Barbara being shot by Joker.