At 68, I look back on my life in the Tennessee Valley of North Alabama. I’ve seen very few that didn’t break themselves to be wild bird dogs. Field trials are a different thing. Too many people buy a puppy and try to have a broke dog first year. Patience is the greatest key. The three year old pointing dog is a thing of wonder. Plan for the future. Let the dog grow up happy and there will be little need for much pressure. Today’s bird dogs are born geniuses. That’s the biggest difference I can tell from sixty years ago. Modern breeding has produced incredible minds in pointing dogs. Dogs are born to know more about this than man. Let ‘em hunt!
You're not alone in that assessment. Many people believe that we're breeding smarter dogs. When the "training" methods were much harsher, it was only the dogs that could tolerate those methods that were typically bred. The "washouts" might have been great bird dogs with other methods.
After college I worked on a wildbird plantation in South Georgia for a few years. Still hunt public land today. The gps/ecollar has done more for the effectiveness of the hunt than it has training. Not as good of habitat and less of it today but you know you have the dog on ecollar and gps so still can efficiently hunt the ground.
@@masterclassanonymous1292 That’s an interesting point. It certainly is comforting to know where your dog is. Many dogs thought to be big runners are now known not to be . . . Some are just hanging out at 150-250 yards without feeling the need to check in any closer since they know where we are.
I believe Shelly would have figured out how to best use E collars. In my opinion, range, recall and location (of the dog) are the three things that E collars can assist the handler most. A dogs Range can be established by an alert if he exits a determined from the handler (collar). E collar creates a relatively reliable Recall using a tone,Nick or vibrate. E collar with GPS location function train Dogs to learn that the handler will locate him when pointing and therefore extending (time) staunchness. E collars most effectively are communication tools between the handler and dog.
All good points! You called it a communication tool, I've heard it said that "it's like sending a text message to your dog." And if your intensity level is set right, it is. And while I agree with it's ability to adjust range as you wrote, as for me, I still like Shelley's thoughts on seeing how the immediate ancestors range. I'd rather have to "mildly shape" a pup rather than trying to turn a racehorse into a plow horse :D
Very insightful video Mark. I trained my first Gwp 11 years ago and I’m working now with my pup that is now 15 months old very little Collar 90% of the time just vibrate for recall they’re both enthusiastic retrievers and I did not use forced fetch every time my new pup would pick something up, when she was young, I would just call her and praise her. Tell her good fetch and now she is a great retriever. Heading from Florida to Montana, North Dakota and South Dakota starting 1 of October. Should be fun.
Thanks Rich. When I start working with a dog and the collar, I used it OFTEN but it's almost always at a very low level. As such, I'm using it usually as a cue, not a correction.
Hey Mark I was trying to find a copy of your book but have no luck find them, I wanted to see if there are still copy’s for sale? Excellent dog training. I use to run a string of around 50 dogs on the King Ranch for wild quail. You have incredible technique and I’ll be looking forward to implement them in my program.
@@zackaryrendon4955 Thanks for the kind words. Books are available from me for $20 and that includes shipping. Please email me at payton1221@yahoo.com to let me know if you would prefer that I send a request request for money via PayPal or Venmo. You could also mail me a check.
I don’t think the dog has changed that much just some more advance training tools . But I still use a lot of the old ways that’s still work for me today . Yes I use the ecollar but only in some cases . I am fond of Dalmar Smith training practice and I keep it simple. I think a lot of dogs are started to early and to much pressure put on them . I love watching your videos.
@@rickyroten2410 thanks for the feedback.Delmar’s techniques are excellent, and I’ve actually started using his whoa post exactly exactly as he teaches it but then overlaying the ecollar later.
As an ecollar user, I do have a worry that some breeders are breeding less and less biddable dogs because they can rely on ecollars and subsequently just breed super birdy dogs that are hard to handle without using more aversive methods.
I loved this! Please put out some more videos comparing and contrasting the old vs new. Collars, in my opinion, have affected handlers and trainers more than they have the dogs. To me the collar is just another tool. Just like a new-fangled slip lead. The Wonder Lead serves the same purpose as a Mendota slip lead yet they are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. The collar does the same. It's can act as a toe hitch, a check cord, or a whoa post. To me the biggest difference is the damage it is capable of if misused or misunderstood. Nevertheless, it is a great tool which I have now doubt Shelly would have used back then.
I remember the man who lived next door living by the principal that you just “pepper them in the @$$ if they didn’t do right.” Ridiculous. Good puppies hunted with good dogs has broke more bird dogs than anything else.
At 68, I look back on my life in the Tennessee Valley of North Alabama. I’ve seen very few that didn’t break themselves to be wild bird dogs. Field trials are a different thing.
Too many people buy a puppy and try to have a broke dog first year. Patience is the greatest key. The three year old pointing dog is a thing of wonder. Plan for the future. Let the dog grow up happy and there will be little need for much pressure. Today’s bird dogs are born geniuses. That’s the biggest difference I can tell from sixty years ago. Modern breeding has produced incredible minds in pointing dogs. Dogs are born to know more about this than man.
Let ‘em hunt!
You're not alone in that assessment. Many people believe that we're breeding smarter dogs. When the "training" methods were much harsher, it was only the dogs that could tolerate those methods that were typically bred. The "washouts" might have been great bird dogs with other methods.
After college I worked on a wildbird plantation in South Georgia for a few years. Still hunt public land today. The gps/ecollar has done more for the effectiveness of the hunt than it has training. Not as good of habitat and less of it today but you know you have the dog on ecollar and gps so still can efficiently hunt the ground.
@@masterclassanonymous1292 That’s an interesting point. It certainly is comforting to know where your dog is. Many dogs thought to be big runners are now known not to be . . . Some are just hanging out at 150-250 yards without feeling the need to check in any closer since they know where we are.
I believe Shelly would have figured out how to best use E collars. In my opinion, range, recall and location (of the dog) are the three things that E collars can assist the handler most. A dogs Range can be established by an alert if he exits a determined from the handler (collar). E collar creates a relatively reliable Recall using a tone,Nick or vibrate. E collar with GPS location function train Dogs to learn that the handler will locate him when pointing and therefore extending (time) staunchness. E collars most effectively are communication tools between the handler and dog.
All good points! You called it a communication tool, I've heard it said that "it's like sending a text message to your dog." And if your intensity level is set right, it is. And while I agree with it's ability to adjust range as you wrote, as for me, I still like Shelley's thoughts on seeing how the immediate ancestors range. I'd rather have to "mildly shape" a pup rather than trying to turn a racehorse into a plow horse :D
Excellent video, thanks. My dogs wear e collars only for the GPS
Very insightful video Mark. I trained my first Gwp 11 years ago and I’m working now with my pup that is now 15 months old very little Collar 90% of the time just vibrate for recall they’re both enthusiastic retrievers and I did not use forced fetch every time my new pup would pick something up, when she was young, I would just call her and praise her. Tell her good fetch and now she is a great retriever. Heading from Florida to Montana, North Dakota and South Dakota starting 1 of October. Should be fun.
Thanks Rich. When I start working with a dog and the collar, I used it OFTEN but it's almost always at a very low level. As such, I'm using it usually as a cue, not a correction.
Hey Mark I was trying to find a copy of your book but have no luck find them, I wanted to see if there are still copy’s for sale? Excellent dog training. I use to run a string of around 50 dogs on the King Ranch for wild quail. You have incredible technique and I’ll be looking forward to implement them in my program.
@@zackaryrendon4955 Thanks for the kind words. Books are available from me for $20 and that includes shipping. Please email me at payton1221@yahoo.com to let me know if you would prefer that I send a request request for money via PayPal or Venmo. You could also mail me a check.
I don’t think the dog has changed that much just some more advance training tools . But I still use a lot of the old ways that’s still work for me today . Yes I use the ecollar but only in some cases . I am fond of Dalmar Smith training practice and I keep it simple. I think a lot of dogs are started to early and to much pressure put on them . I love watching your videos.
@@rickyroten2410 thanks for the feedback.Delmar’s techniques are excellent, and I’ve actually started using his whoa post exactly exactly as he teaches it but then overlaying the ecollar later.
@@Payton1221 That is the way i do it also , the whoa post is something I feel strong about using .
As an ecollar user,
I do have a worry that some breeders are breeding less and less biddable dogs because they can rely on ecollars and subsequently just breed super birdy dogs that are hard to handle without using more aversive methods.
I loved this! Please put out some more videos comparing and contrasting the old vs new. Collars, in my opinion, have affected handlers and trainers more than they have the dogs. To me the collar is just another tool. Just like a new-fangled slip lead. The Wonder Lead serves the same purpose as a Mendota slip lead yet they are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. The collar does the same. It's can act as a toe hitch, a check cord, or a whoa post. To me the biggest difference is the damage it is capable of if misused or misunderstood. Nevertheless, it is a great tool which I have now doubt Shelly would have used back then.
Thanks Mark. I have another book already in mind ;-)
But you're right: it's certainly capable of damage if misused.
I remember the man who lived next door living by the principal that you just “pepper them in the @$$ if they didn’t do right.”
Ridiculous.
Good puppies hunted with good dogs has broke more bird dogs than anything else.
I’ve heard the same horror stories. Some called it a dose of Vitamin-9’s (9 shot) 😡