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I did it. 3 of my friend did it. There’s a dedicated discord. Here’s my guide 1. Be in Aether 2. Set aside 3-5 months 4-7 hours a day 3. Be patient Ultimate not hard just takes times. And a lot of patient Bonus: Get to final phase and get Saus to help you
Cleared it on every job (including the other 4) in PF like a filthy degenerate in EW cause I ain't got friends. Maybe it was just my experience, I thought DSR was harder in PF because of the people variable (lower barrier to entry and when I did it).
Ok but a PF clear TOP uses AM which removed half the difficulty from the fight :/ I've done it without AM in static and with AM in PF, it's not the same.
I think they can come up with other things other than body checks to test players. I am sorry, but the way that EW raids literally burnt people out because it was basically body check simulator...I am ok with them toning it back.
I would prefer harder mechanics to execute mechanically (dodges, positioning, timing, etc.) that are very punishing instead of medium mechanics constantly followed up by a body check. If that makes sense.
same, i never really liked puzzle mechanics, since 99% of the time these puzzles required all 8 people, and if a SINGLE PERSON screws up slightly, we just wipe, its the same reason why i absolutely hated high concept and that shape/colour thing (i forgot the name) in P12s it made me feel so helpless, especially since i was playing sage the entire EW, where i just see someone screwing up and the party wiping with me and my co-healer being unable to do literally anything to salvage the situation the only fight that i really liked the entire EW was barbariccia, it was just a execution mechanic spam, it was so chaotic i love it
@@wHiTeSoL1998 That has nothing to do with puzzle mechanics but that everything was tied to bodychecks, execution based mechanics included. The stronger focus on recovery and tighter dps checks is welcomed for less bodychecks.
I personally don't think they should keep adding door bosses cause its just tiring for prog. I do however think they should just go and make the door boss into a full boss and just have 5 floors. It wouldn't be that much more effort if they're making a door boss in the first place anyway.
Honestly, just making it a door boss that has its own drops would be enough for me, even if it's just upgrade materials, honestly even a tomestone that you can use to just exchange for any armor piece doesn't seem like too much, just to accelerate everyone's gearing
Making door bosses that MAKE SENSE is fine. Making something a door boss to make a door boss, is a poor design choice. Examples, ExDeath and Kefka made absolute sense being doorbosses and made way into 2 of the best savage encounters we've ever gotten. EW door bosses, were just door bosses to be door bosses.
Raiding in any situation is vastly different when you're in an established static versus party finder. Party finder is like the lottery. Some terrible parties with non melded players wish minimum item level and no food, try those for 70ish parties then you will see how difficult it is for us normal non streamer non hardcore, non static PF only players. With Statics you all meld and become one. Can't really do that with a stranger. Getting those golden parties are few and far between.
Honestly speaking, I'd much rather have the fast paced, fast prog but incredibly fun fights this tier had than having body checks after what seemingly every mechanic resulting into slow ass prog It makes progging and reclearing so much more palatable. Having Abyssos, TOP and Anabaesios back to back to back just burnt out so many people including myself
I'm in the middle ground on this. There were too many body checks in recent content. Seems they've dialled that back a bit with this tier, which is mostly good for the early bosses. I do think they maybe under tuned this tier a little. My group 3 hour raid nights, 3 times a week and we're on the third boss, just over the half way mark with him. We're not doing it blind but we're going damn fast. Seems like third and fourth boss could of done with a tiny bit more health. Even an average group is going end up skipping a mechanic or two in the end of each fight, as gear rolls in. Does indeed make reclears less painful if a group member is having an off night.
Im 100% against to many Bodychecks, I don’t mind 1 or 2 in the last savage turn, but having to many Bodychecks just ruins the experience. Rather add hard dps checks to compensate no Bodycheck mechanics. Top/Tier2/Tier3 in endwalker have been by far my worst experience ever in that game. Just blackscreening agin and again…………
@NeFlorence I think theres a place for both. I certainly think m1s and m2s ( even though im bad at m2s) were way more enjoyable than the other first and second turns in endwalker
I think them stepping away from having body checks after every single mechanic has made this tier more fun than any of the EW tiers. Because of the body checks in EW, a single player could completely lock down groups. At least now you can recover and continue to prog the mechanics even if there are a few deaths here and there.
me when me and the caster don't mess up any mechanic and mitigate but both die to beat 3 and rotten heart casts because the shield healer forgot they had buttons
Jesus, i cleared it yesterday and what my friend and i saw in pf was just painfully. Sooo many viper being so shit doing 18k. Someone even doing 16k! We could not believe what we were seeing! So many dps are so fucking shit it’s so demotivating. After 3 hours of prog we saw everything and were disappoint as fuck because of the shit mechanic design and being way to easy for a savage fight but then we spend like 15 hours in „kill“ partys … for me by far the worst savage fight I’ve ever done
i Think, for PF bosses tuned pretty well, and there is DPS check in PF... of course for static groups this raid is easy, coz they can do mechanics and do dps above grey logs.
Honestly, I prefer the easier DPS check. It felt a lot more fun/less stressful, we always clear week 1 but this time we were able to do it a few days earlier, I loved getting my weekend back this tier.
My guy PF is never clearing these dps checks. M2S is agony in pf, its bad enough that people don't know how to play their classes; and now you throw movement, healing the boss, and leaving the bosses hitbox to it and it's pure agony. Finding parties that can even meet the dps check is beyond difficult.
M2S in pf for first clear was rough. About 12hrs of clear pulls. As a reclear maybe I got lucky. It was still tight as hell though even with no stacks. (With my static it wasn’t an issue.)
I massively disagree with the final part of your video. Asphodelos was also easy and then what happened? Abyssos came out and shit on everyone, complete 180 in difficulty and skill required. I don't think an ounce of "ultimates are the last bastion of difficult content" is accurate in any way. Very jaded and close minded point of view, Arthars. With that being said, I'm very tired of the first tier always being easy, it takes years at that point between the actual hard content and that fucking sucks.
From a commercial POV it would make sense that savage becomes more midcore (because the game doesn’t have much midcore things) and then ultimate becomes the hardcore. People are more likely to stick around and stay subbed if the content is fun and easier. The MMO landscape isn’t the same as ten years ago and so they’re gonna have to compete more, not just against MMOs
Dps checks a really easy in a static where u can chose where the first week gear goes not so much in pf where u are lucky to have someone that got a drop even on week 2 then not everyone pentameld not everyone pots twice or even once not every pot is the expansive kind and ofc not everyone is a super good player, add all those togheter and u see multiple enrages in pf. The difficulty of this tier is just right and most important is fun.
As someone who did savage week 1 and has done all ultimates. It’s a good thing arthas doesn’t design content for this game. He would literally send us back to the Gordias gulag. Please get out of your static and go into the PF like the rest of us and you’ll see that this tier is tuned fine as far as mechanics. Yes the DPS checks were lower than expected so I won’t argue that but everything you’re asking for the fight to be is insanely droll and over done. Like I don’t think ever 4th turn needs to be body check debuff vomit. Titan wasn’t like that in Eden and he was very fondly remembered. Wicked thunder is fine.
Who cares if you do savage week 1 or ultimate. Did anyone ask you? Serious question btw. It's funny how when someone talks about savage raid there are people who jumps in with "aS soMeOne wHo dId sAvAgE dAy 1" as if that suddenly validates anything they need or have to say 😂
@@Yokai_Yuri Well it does validate what they say. Kinda like how the initial healer striker's opinion was invalidated cuz they never touched EX+ Also "Who asked" in the comments section? A public open forum dude? lol
@@Yokai_Yuri It's relevant because Arthars kinda made it sound as if all "veteran" raiders feel the way he did when this comment and its popularity shows that's not the case.
5:30 NO, the majority of the community is tired of every turn 4 being a door boss. That is just an extra savage fight that you refuse to give me loot for. It basically doubles the time to prog turn 4 and I don't want to constantly deal with having to set aside 20 or more minutes for a single fight in reclear when I'm not working on an ultimate. They are not important, and body checks don't 'test players', did anybody, literally anybody die to a mechanic and couldn't be ressed in time? All 8 people go back to the start of the pull. Endwalker was all body checks and people were miserable working on it. People clearing would finish the turn four and scream at the top of their lungs "FUCK THIS TIER" and never come back cause the gear doesn't matter.
The issue is that the 4th floor fights usually provide a substantial step-up in difficulty from the other 3, both in mechanical complexity and clean execution requirements during the first few weeks of the patch. M4s just did not provide that, so for high end raiders it feels like something is missing. Ultimately people do the fights because they’re looking for a satisfying challenge moreso then just a weekly chore to get gear.
This is my first savage tier on release and I found week 1 to be very fun. I'm not the best raider but I cleared up to M3S and am almost done progging 4 which I've been very satisfied with. As someone who is still relatively new to the game compared to all the veterans I feel like you hit it right on the head with the difficulty, it's a challenge for players like me but not too overly punishing to mistakes when not playing optimally and can still clear in the end with no deaths. Seeing people skip mechanics day one was a surprise for me as I've only cleared on the last mechs before enrage so far.
Nah, fuck door bosses. We need more bosses like E8S. The lack of a door boss there didn't mean there were no hard mechanics after the transition at all. That was a fucking good fight.
@@Druuna89X probably they saw the p2 to p3 transition from TOP and decided to did it here. I hope they will do it for next tier too, but i think having door boss for the final tier is better, eden almost did it right.
I find this trend encouraging. This is my personal view, I'm not speaking in absolutes. But WoW did this in their tenth year, too. Normal became closer to LFR, Heroic like old Normal, and then the hardest, sweatiest of all got Mythic. I'm keeping my eyes on the spot between Savage and Ultimate.
Why the dps check is like this: If it is higher, pf will lock both rdm and smn, 100%. I used my alt in pf and in the last few hours of the first week reset (My main cleared M4S day 3 in a static), I encountered 4 nearly clean (with one or two dds) M3S enrage because the caster is a summoner, we would have cleared if this SMN is a picto, they are afraid of facing the P8S backlash again. (if Abyssos tank balance was bad, the caster balance now is hell)
This is the first raid tier I've cleared in PF and honestly it was a lot of fun. If people think it is too easy, let them try to do sunrise without someone shooting somebody. The only fight that is really "weak" is m2, but others were really fun to prog and clear, especially the first week, and personally will be fun to optimize and reprog on different jobs. SE did a really good job for people to play with each other in PF, rather then for 8 sweat lords in discord talking about missed 3 GCDs after the first clear
Seeing NA PF struggle throughout week one on M1S literally keeping me from progressing further has made me take the backseat until week 3 when majority of them are finally geared up a bit more, and those who wanted to check it out and not truly interested in Savage have backed out. It most likely was just bad luck with the PFs I got(People joining then leaving after a wipe, to healer and rez dps dying to mechanics over and over) but ooof was that a doozy the first week. Can't wait to jump back in this Tuesday and finally get my clears *fingers-crossed* But, seeing videos of others prog/clear I can say this is a very fun tier that I can't wait to experience myself. I would join a static, but my schedule fluctuates too much atm so it wouldn't be fair to the team I join.
I love it it's not perfect but i think it is closer than most previous tiers we've gotten since eden's gate which, if people recall had similar difficulty discourse when it realeased and they are already taking feedback on it right now so we can expect a little bit of a tune up next tier.
I cleared M4S just after week 1, and it’s amazing the difference in skills of players. My 1-3 reclear party took two pulls each with most party having 90+ parses which made the fights a breeze even with deaths. My PF day one m1s clear was horrible. We met the enrage 5 times since the dps players were such shit. After clearing, one of the members announced “I didn’t even use tinctures! Haha”. PF is getting easier to vet players in prog parties though using sites like tomestone to verify where they’re out. In a few weeks though, most these hard final mechs aren’t going to exist for us reclearers.
Yesterday, I cleared M1S for the first time (my first l“current“ savage ever) in a PF as an OT and while I had tincture in my hotbar, I never used it, because I wanted to be sure, that my party reach at least enrage before I begin to spent my tincture. In the End, we killed the boss, before we saw the enrage.😅
I have come to accept that FF14 has reached its peak. There is nothing much you can do in terms of variability in raid because the human factor is the real challenge 80% of player base are facing. Either the issue comes from you or from others. Cranking the number of people up will only cause more burn out if people can’t clear a content. Which leads me to the 24 man AR. It seems like a good idea on paper, but if it goes by the same recruitment process as savage PF we will all live in hell. We can’t go 8 properly and now there are 24 of them. We don’t have that culture planted 10 years ago and there are so many other allure which will discourage players. We are no more the dial up era and people treat games differently. Either way, come what may. I just do whatever content I could. At this point SE raid is just a memory game for me and to train some of my hand eye coordination. That’s about all.
I do think the shift to making savage easier is a good thing, the jump to ex to savage was too big imo, and the slope to ex > savage > ulti feels a bit more clean. I'd be down for them to had other content in the future between savage and ulti even, that are more one off like an alliance raid.
Maybe a super unpopular opinion, but a door boss early into the set such as Alexander Fausts could serve as a good benchmark. That was at least a good starting place for me back then when I was trying to become optimal enough for savage.
Pfing for the first time after raiding the last 2 expacs with a static. The struggle is real but it's been fun so far. It's a little weird how messing up mechs don't outright kill you, especially in the first 3 fights, but so far from my experience I don't think this is a bad first tier to start off Dawntrail on. I especially love that in M4S, the boss transitions while actively giving players mechanics to resolve. A far cry from watching transition cutscenes during prog for Shadowbringer fights (E4S was ok but E8s was particularly egregious). Savage difficulty aside, I just really enjoy the setting of Arcadion and I'm looking forward to the characters that we will meet (and fight) down the road. It is genuinely funny how different the pf experience is to statics when it comes to damage though. Pf just can't do damage... Also, Mariokart is the worst cope of a strat that makes alarm 1 "easier" I have ever seen. PLEASE STOP DOING MARIOKART IN M2S AND JUST DODGE.
watching people die over and over to mariokart when its literally easier to just sacrifice uptime, dodge and get what hits in you can when you can. my bf and i had a PF where the MCH was so salty we wouldnt do mariokart, the whole group voted 7/8 to do yolo. we cleared before they did. that was a god PF party though, we went in fresh with 6 others relatively if not fully fresh and in 4 hours ended up clearing when we replaced a couple people that got too tired and were making mistakes so they wanted to sleep lol. (our first pull went to 44% with 8 stacks on her, which was wild) yolo is literally so easy, plant yourself at a wall, you just have to watch across from you and the sides and do small dodges.
@@michaelbart7014 yeah even playing as a melee i feel yolo is so much easier 😭Mariokart is like, heavily rng dependent and you might just get closed in against the wall if you're unlucky. Pf just needs to open their eyes man.
I feel like that they are changing the design philosophy of how to divide the tiers. Like, the first raid tier is going to be "easy" and less "think, more fights". The second raid tier will be harder with a moderated amount of movement and puzzles and third tier is going to be a "Holy shit what the fuck"
Week 1 in pf I barely beat M1S Monday night lol. Tuesday of Week 2 however I was in a reclear group that cleared M1S before Raining Cats resolved, without using LB. Granted one guy was decked out head-to-toe in ornate gear haha. Still, the difference between pf and statics is SO REAL rn
Real talk I’m happy that the dps check is lower and I don’t get it that so many content creators are crying about this. All of them should think atleast a minute how hard the dps check will be in pf. Because at the moment its a nightmare! It’s so fucking hard to find peoples who can dps. I’ve seen So many dps doing 16k-19k and I’m talking about samurai, reaper or viper.. so many phys ranged doing 16k… that yoshi p lowered the dps check is pretty much the biggest w point! Dont want to imagine how miserable pf would be without all the buffs the classes get.
Cleared M1 and 2 week 1 in PF but could not pass the dps check of M3S even week 2. It honestly felt like purgatory. Gladly it's over and can continue to prog 4s. Raid tier so far has been more fun than anything in Endwalker and it's not even close
Doing these in PF is pure cbt. I bet they are simple with a proper, consistent static, but the shit you run into in pf makes it slow and painful. week one it took me 3 days to find a group that could do enough damage to clear m3s, week two it took me 5 days of non-stop pfing from morning to night til I found a group that could finish m4s.
Criterion Savage is supposed to be the in between of ultimate and savage, but the problem is savage didn't do anything different. If they fix that, it'll be great.
the balance between making savage more accessible for new players vs veterans could also end up being more apparent once the next tiers come out. If 1-4 are sort of easier than old savage but still challenging, they can do a step up for 5-8, and a bigger step for 9-12. That way maybe 7-12 are difficult enough to make hardcore raiders happy, while 1-6 are still there to give newcomers a path to get into savage content, still fun for everyone, but a middle ground for challenge
Honey bee savage is one of the easiest fights I've ever seen, and paradoxically one of the ones that the noobs in PF seem to struggle with the most. Took me 3 days of "clear parties" to find a group that could consistently get to enrage. Shit's wild.
I am glad this tier has no Puzzle mechanics. They are only really appealing to blind prog groups and week 1 groups who are trying to figure out the mechanics for the first time. A lot of the enjoyment I see from that mechanic is seeing people trying to solve the mechanic for the first time. However, people who aren't in that crowd just boil down to watching a video to tell them what to do, and just. You could argue that it is every mechanic, but the level of mystery behind puzzles like High Concept, or even in DSR is the entire appeal of that mechanic. Taking that away just makes it like every other mechanic, just with an extremely high learning curve.
Even though the DPS checks were relatively easy, compared to past tiers, i think this is much better than a tier people struggle to beat due to balance issues. I think that was the main thing they were trying to avoid, where for the first and second tiers of Pandaemonium, there were actual struggles depending on the Job you wanted to play. The more important thing however, is that i have no issues reclearing any of these fights. This tier is the first tier since... maybe the final Omega tier? Or Midas??? Where every fight is good. Black Cat is a great first fight, even though you can skip her 2nd to final mechanic already which is insane. Not as good as Chaos, or Carbuncle, but really strong and interesting. Honey B is queen, thats just a good fight, same with Brute Bomber. Wicked Thunder is also really good but maybe a bit too long of a fight. I think in terms of a "single fight", Titan is much better paced but Wicked Thunder also doesnt have a mid-point DPS check, she just keeps going which i think gives you more opportunity to recover in the back half of the fight, or crush the first half and make some mistakes later. Overall this is a REALLY strong tier, especially for the start of an expansion
I think this tier was pretty fun to prog week 1 even though it wasn't too challenging. Allowed me to kinda relax and meme a bit more. However I look at the challenge of the tier and the ultimate coming out and get the strange feeling it's going to be rougher than TOP.
I think DPS check being easier is still a better thing to have than DPS check being reliant on RNG uptime mechanics or crits like it happened during P8S. It can be good to have a challenge but making it insanely difficult for certain job comps to the point even our favourite baldo had to swap off warrior really sucks. Hopefully the next one is tuned just right, not too high and not too low.
So with my static, we honestly dont even worry about dps checks because we know how to press the correct buttons, and its just us learning the mechs. But in pf, much different story. Ive have wiped like 7-8 times in a row on m2 due to people failing beat 2 and 3, and it was worse on m3, people dying to chain 2 and barrage 2, with about 12 wipes at 2% because deaths and people having less than a 1 iq. I honestly think you should go into PF and do m2 and m3 and youll see the pure suffering wether or not you get half competent players
Lot of people struggling in PF, I honestly do not think these fights should be balanced around PF. It's part of the inherent risk of playing with random people - sometimes you don't get a good group. Statics also have this issue if you aren't picky as you end up with some degree of sunk cost fallacy when sticking with a group, though I think it's more likely to play with worse players in PF than in a static.
There wont be a middle ground between veterans and regular players, if anything it is a gap that will get bigger. If there's anything to do, there might only be balancing, giving stuff to work for each demographic, and that would be generous if you dont count that veterans are mostly on the hundreds mark at most
Ive only been up to M2S so I cant really comment but on what I've done it's pretty fun. I'm a casual raider but have done savage since Omega. I like the Panda story better so far but I'm looking forward to what they do going forward. Bee My Honey is 10/10 though. I think body checks are fine if not done in every single fight and every single mechanic like last tier of panda was. But M4 not having a doorboss it makes it an endurance test because with no checkpoint you have to keep doing it over and over and people get tired just to regress.
Nothing is wrong with 2, it's literally just a skill issue. Do mechs, use eyes, its not hard and it's not tune-out-braindead easy. If people struggle with this it literally is just get good lmao
Honey B's Alarm Pheromone 1 isn't hard to dodge it's just... really muddied by poor visuals and RNG. If the dash markers were longer and didn't only stretch to half the arena it would be much better.
people on the bee fight just run around with their heads cut off, i noticed the 2nd phase of bees and where their green lines aim are baited to players, but everyone just makes them overlap the whole arena and generates so much GCD downtime moving around and praying the sequence doesnt clip you
Anabaseios tier had so many goddamn body checks people were sick of it, so hard disagree on wanting more body checks cause a raid "needs" it. The devs can come up with other challenges to test players skill.
M2S is honestly the worst fight in the tier for party finder its almost a must to have discord vc or you will have to deal with irl rng because people dont want to pay attention and see their tower in beat 3 or mitigate during rotten heart or dont hug in the middle so you have to go to them or its a wipe. the dps check is fine but m3s was made at least 2x easier than m2s in terms of body checks they should have made turn 2 brute bomber and turn 3 honey bee.
this reminds me a lot of how blizzard did raids in dragonflight. I see it as a positive for the game. DPS checks should still be a little bit harder though
I can understand the complaint about M3s and M4s on checks. But not for M1S and M2S. You go in 710 penta melded. My PF party goes into M1S with ilevel 700 gear, and I can pray its melded, and M2s i can pray they have the extreme trial gear and not the 710 normal raid accessories because those remove 1 materia slot... SE cannot design the fights in a way that you cannot do it with minimum level, when they set the minimum level >.> like wut. I also started to give out food and pots to people because the amount of people who dont pot in PF is criminal, but now I started to see people who dont even use a lower grade food... please people, why you like dis T^T
Oh, I thought he said this was a very difficult turn 3 but he said a very typical turn 3. I thought 3 was just as easy if not easier than 2. 3 had a lot less awkward go to the corner mechanics than 2. In 2 I would sometimes a safety ranged attack if my GCD didn't feel like it was lining up with the corner dodge well to greed. In 3 I only ever felt the need to lightning shot one time if he didn't jump to my corner for the towers. The needle dodges were way less consistent in my static in 2 as well than any mechanic in 3. I also felt like the stack during the heart bullet hell was inconsistent depending on who had the stack in my group because they'd sometimes book it to a weird dodge last second. I felt like the mechanics in 3 didn't have anything nearly as awkward as that. I guess in other words, 2 had me leaving the fight wondering if there's better, less awkward ways of a doing a couple of the mechanics and 3 was so straightforward and consistently easy to execute so it didn't. In that way I almost think 2 was harder.
This is a great video - but some food for thought. You were talking about Savages becoming "Midcore" and I'm here to say - they don't have to be. But I think somthing that bars a lot of new/casual players from Raiding is that the learning curve is VERY steep and that might need to be something the community needs to step up and help bridge if vets want to have more challenging content at lower levels without the casuals crying foul. I was interested in doing more raids - but I watch videos from other raiders and have no idea what is being said half the time let alone the mechanics and so for me it's kinda a turn off because I don't want to be a burden - but I don't know what's going on either - I haven't done this for 10+ years. Additionally, not everyone is lucky to have diehard raiders friends who will make the time to explain and coach people through Savage mechanics. Many times - we don't need in-depth videos explaining every detail of a fight - but knowing the signs and key terms helps -- and a lot of content creators miss on this opportunity to make the community better which in turn means more fun shit for them because we then can all handle it.. (hint hint on potential video ideas)
Most players that play this game are casual and there biggest subs, not many people have the time to clear savage in week 1 because of IRL stuff, so no point catering to a very small amount of players who have nothing better to do then play FFXIV all day and night. Groups like yours have like top players that do nothing else but play games so of course it's going to be easier for you to clear.
I was (somehow) able to clear this tier full PF in Week 1 and I kinda agree with your points up until the final fight First fight was phenomenal. Super easy, but was creative and fun. Massive step up from Erich imo Second fight? Awful. I hate it. It's even easier than the first, but in PF the punishment for healing the boss is so severe it's ridiculous, and the fight isn't even fun. I hate pretty much everything about it Third fight I *really* enjoyed. Even if the DPS check is easy, I prefer fights like this that are a lot more about execution and not choking after a major mechanic happens. It forces you to pay attention in a way that's more engaging for me personally, as opposed to the second fight where part of it is having to remember shit for a minute straight. Final fight though, I'm kinda torn. I'll put it bluntly: I don't like door bosses. Athena last tier was an example of a door boss being done exceptionally bad. Phase 2 focused way too hard on puzzles and not about making the mechanics hard or fun. That fight was genuinely easier than P9S in every way except outgoing damage. I much prefer this type of design where it actually feels like a full fight with Savage exclusive stuff. I do wish they dialed up the difficulty in the second half though, because every mechanic there except *maybe* Sunrise Sabbath (that one's kind of a toss up) is exceedingly simple and easy. Again, the only difficulty was in the outgoing raidwide damage and sometimes the boss auto attacks, which is not a good thing. It does put them in a weird position where they have two options. They either do the door boss and risk another Athena situation with a good first half and awful second half, or they give us a long fight like this that's just easier all around. I do think they should open door number three and give us a fifth Savage-exclusive fight, so they could fully flesh out both halves into their own fights. As fun as P8S was, imagine if both phases were split into their own fights. That would be a fucking blast. Overall I do hope that this tier showed them what works, what doesn't, and what they could do moving forward. They definitely made the tier on the whole more fun, and I enjoyed myself *way* more this tier than in the *entirety* of Pandaemonium (even in PF purgatory). If they could dial up the difficulty a bit, up the DPS checks enough to be challenging, *and* gave us a Savage-only 5th fight, Savage would be in a near perfect spot imo. Where it's at now is still good, but it always can be improved
Idk, there are body checks but good tanks and healers can allow people to live them. I think thats rewarding. So far ive been having a ton of fun, only had time to prog halfway into m3s but its been. FUN. actually fun. EW was not fun after the 200th time you wiped to the same body check mechanic that you only see for 6 seconds and multiple people are really struggling with it. And PF got so burned out. It became impossible to get prog parties for last bosses if you werent already in phase 2 or on enrage. IMPOSSIBLE. This is so far a lot more forgiving and accessible to players, something still to challenge them. The DPS check being messed up sucks, only because yeah it means that the fights will become very skippable. BUT. Its fun. its got its challenges. It has potential too. There has been some really fun mechanics, and even though you think that M2S was a 4 or 5/10, i think you are completely ignoring that pf cannot communicate the same way statics with voice calls can. Ive seen some chaos in there, some tom foolery of the highest order. Im looking forward to the other tiers greatly, if only going based on the actual fun of these fights as opposed to the grueling strugglefest.
So I had a talk with some friends and my static and I think they handled it awesome. If Arcadion is a tier of us rising the start of a championship it makes total sense that the DPS check is easy on savage. I predict each tier is gonna get harder and harder leading us up to M/R 12 where we shall have the true final battle with a tight knit DPS check. My groups already at M4S and we absolutely cannot wait to tackle the upcoming Eden Ultimate!
PF often has people using lower ilvl gear, not the new HQ crafted stuff melded. Seen a lot of neo kingdom gear being used for example, some even using 690 artifact pieces. If they're gonna tighten the dps check they need to increase the minimum ilvl to enter the raids, there's too much variance in PF gear otherwise
increasing min ilvl won't help variance at all, as you can enter duties with a preformed party without meeting the ilvl requirement. people will always be anchors because they won't properly gear before heading in.
Haven't played it at all (fell out of love with the game in DT) but from what it looks/sounds like, its just a proper Hard Mode for the raids, but not a proper Savage Mode. I mean it looks fun, but when you point out the DPS checks are a joke, skipping entire boss mechanics/phases, and min iLvl gear allowing you to survive cleaves... Yeah that sounds like its just a more engaging version of the normal raid tier is all.
I would argue that being more lenient in DPS check is a W. For a Savage Veteran and a player that genuine knows how to never press a wrong button, it's bad. But the fact that FFXIV rotations are not forgiving with errors, same as fight, is quite disheartening. Not hard. But disheartening. The fact that for a new player needs to fight themselves, their hotbars AND fast-paced mechanics has always been something that pushed a lot of people away from Savage. The summary of the video really encapsulate the notion, I do think that this tier is more inviting for people who don't raid to try it out. I never cleared a whole Savage Tier, and this genuine has sparked on me and many of my friends who also never stepped onto this kind of content, not even Extremes, to try it out high-end content. And honestly? That's a W.
It really depends. No body checks AND no dps check is stupid cause you shouldn't be able to drag your way to a clear. But having body checks with a lenient dps check is ok
@@skcansMachine I would argue that anything that doesn't allow the fight to be recovered, and instead just resets the fight (beyond actual wipe mechanics), isn't a fun mechanic. And actually very frustrating to deal with "oh, 1 person died, now this mechanic happens, welp." I know it's the combat philosophy, but it's not really that interesting, unlike, you know. Genuine fighting.
@@MrJesuisOMG I agree but in the context of this game, it's the only way to make encounters difficult. Without body checks it defeats the purpose of big puzzle mechanics, which is a huge selling point of 14 raiding
most ffxiv jobs' rotations are pretty forgiving with errors tbh, with the changes they've made over time miss a positional? you lose like 50 potency and still build gauge used gauge you were supposed to save for burst? no problem, a lot of classes have bursts where not planning ahead only loses a couple hundred potency under buffs can't keep melee uptime? viper has ranged stacks they can save, ninja has ranged ninjutsu, reaper can save harvest moon casters and healers are also more mobile than ever, except BLM only super punishing job I can think of is like, BLM, where dropping enochian costs a fuckload of dps the problem with low dps players (at least when it's so low that they can't clear savage several weeks in) is typically not that they don't perfectly optimize the rotation, but that they don't keep the GCD rolling, or die. as long as you're pressing buttons and are alive, as long as said buttons are not EGREGIOUSLY wrong (like not knowing how the job works, drifting buffs, breaking combo or not using cooldowns) you'll be doing fine
I hope they keep this kind of design but make it's harder and of course dps check has to be better......pls dont make it like Abysso because that tier is soooooo unfun and burn my enjoyment for the game .
Damn I’m late to this party. This tier is too easy, if you don’t think so you’re very clearly new here. Before anyone gets defensive hard does not always equate to fun. THIS TIER IS FUN! I deliberately stopped hardcore after 6.4 to relax and focus on family etc. This tier I did 6 days raiding between 3 and 5 hours on the evenings and we did slightly longer on the last day but not much longer. We killed week 1, without everyone being optimised, with deaths, with pots missing in windows, without everyone in penta crafted. I get people want a week 1 and it’s easier to do but that just devalues the accomplishment felt from a week 1. We quite literally got a week 1 this tier by accident, without pushing for it. That’s not how savage has ever worked or should work. The tier is equal in difficulty to extreme trials outside of maybe 3 mechanics in the whole tier. That’s not to say the tier needs puzzles. Titan (E4S) was a great fight and literally didn’t have a puzzle anywhere, it did have a dps check and healing checks… and more than one tank buster every 2 minutes (absolutely no idea what happened with busters this tier but there just… isn’t enough of them and they don’t do much damage besides M3S towards the end of the fight. M2S you can literally just pop CDs and solo the stack buster. One of the best feelings with actually clearing is hitting that fairly messy first time enrage. You clean up mechanics. You have a death or two and some damage downs, you get closer. You optimise damage a little to make up for mistakes. Each pull getting closer and closer until you kill, nerd scream and the dopamine kicks in. This tier was kinda just “Oh. She died. GG I guess.” Hyper disappointing in that regard honestly. All that said, better tier than Abyssos, not even because of damage. Carbuncle was a good start, P6 has one single mechanic and everything else is zzzzzzzz, P7 has no mechanics after week 3 since they’re all at the end and is probably the worst savage fight they’ve made from Deltascape up to present day, P8… Door boss is boring imo and phase 2 has one genuinely interesting mechanic… and baby’s first Hello World. Anyway, enough yapping. Tier is to easy and lenient (PF fellas sorry but balancing around 19k deathless vipers should not be a thing. My first M4 I died twice and got a damage down during a 2m and still pushed nearly 23k) but it is fun
great video thanks for breaking down your thoughts and feelings and the tier. though i only just cleared M1s with my static i was dissapointed that there isn't a door boss. it's kind of nice having that break in the fight
@@omensoffate What he means is that because the hitboxes are smaller you'd think there'd be more downtime, which means everybody's dps goes down, but in reality fighting for uptime tier this hasn't been hard whatsoever
Even for pf, the dps check was easy if your pf group has a few blue-purple players and maybe up to 3 grey parsers. Very early in the tier when your pf group prog point is ahead then the other groups this is very likely to happen I think since I kinda breeze through turn 1-3 in pf this time. However that dps check becomes harder in pf the later you clear. I was helping my friend clearing turn 3 yesterday and holy shit how many times we enraged that boss
Do you really want Endwalker dps checks with this much melee downtime? There is nothing that makes me want to quit raiding more than melees and tanks causing wipes to greeding in prog. Also wiping to enrage with zero deaths is unfun. The dps checks are perfect because melees can play safe and you can still clear. As it should be.
Tank main here o7,Im sorry if you like m2s but f*ck this fight, ive been stuck in pf and ive been doing better in the fight than i ever did I perfected yet i cant find a party that can clear it there is always something going wrong, at least lower the hp by 2% or make the bee attack line aoe more obvious i can dodge it but most of pf cant somehow
M2s is not a bad fight tbh. What makes it hard is that it's kinda a body check and if people fail heart mechanics, it's better to wipe than to keep going.
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if you say "too easy" 3 times in a row, yoshi p will appear behind you and force you to clear TOP on PF
I did it. 3 of my friend did it. There’s a dedicated discord. Here’s my guide
1. Be in Aether
2. Set aside 3-5 months 4-7 hours a day
3. Be patient
Ultimate not hard just takes times. And a lot of patient
Bonus: Get to final phase and get Saus to help you
@@TheAsheron call me wrong but isn't that what every hard thing in games takes? patience and time? haha
huh i already clear more than 10+ times in PF
Cleared it on every job (including the other 4) in PF like a filthy degenerate in EW cause I ain't got friends. Maybe it was just my experience, I thought DSR was harder in PF because of the people variable (lower barrier to entry and when I did it).
Ok but a PF clear TOP uses AM which removed half the difficulty from the fight :/
I've done it without AM in static and with AM in PF, it's not the same.
I think they can come up with other things other than body checks to test players. I am sorry, but the way that EW raids literally burnt people out because it was basically body check simulator...I am ok with them toning it back.
I would prefer harder mechanics to execute mechanically (dodges, positioning, timing, etc.) that are very punishing instead of medium mechanics constantly followed up by a body check. If that makes sense.
same, i never really liked puzzle mechanics, since 99% of the time these puzzles required all 8 people, and if a SINGLE PERSON screws up slightly, we just wipe, its the same reason why i absolutely hated high concept and that shape/colour thing (i forgot the name) in P12s
it made me feel so helpless, especially since i was playing sage the entire EW, where i just see someone screwing up and the party wiping with me and my co-healer being unable to do literally anything to salvage the situation
the only fight that i really liked the entire EW was barbariccia, it was just a execution mechanic spam, it was so chaotic i love it
@@wHiTeSoL1998 That has nothing to do with puzzle mechanics but that everything was tied to bodychecks, execution based mechanics included. The stronger focus on recovery and tighter dps checks is welcomed for less bodychecks.
I personally don't think they should keep adding door bosses cause its just tiring for prog. I do however think they should just go and make the door boss into a full boss and just have 5 floors.
It wouldn't be that much more effort if they're making a door boss in the first place anyway.
Honestly, just making it a door boss that has its own drops would be enough for me, even if it's just upgrade materials, honestly even a tomestone that you can use to just exchange for any armor piece doesn't seem like too much, just to accelerate everyone's gearing
Door bosses allow for harder second phases. Imho a mix of long phases and door bosses hits the sweetspot.
5 fights to prog would also make prog more tiring though... :U?
Making door bosses that MAKE SENSE is fine. Making something a door boss to make a door boss, is a poor design choice. Examples, ExDeath and Kefka made absolute sense being doorbosses and made way into 2 of the best savage encounters we've ever gotten. EW door bosses, were just door bosses to be door bosses.
100%
Raiding in any situation is vastly different when you're in an established static versus party finder. Party finder is like the lottery. Some terrible parties with non melded players wish minimum item level and no food, try those for 70ish parties then you will see how difficult it is for us normal non streamer non hardcore, non static PF only players. With Statics you all meld and become one. Can't really do that with a stranger. Getting those golden parties are few and far between.
facts facts facts
Honestly speaking, I'd much rather have the fast paced, fast prog but incredibly fun fights this tier had than having body checks after what seemingly every mechanic resulting into slow ass prog
It makes progging and reclearing so much more palatable. Having Abyssos, TOP and Anabaesios back to back to back just burnt out so many people including myself
I'm in the middle ground on this. There were too many body checks in recent content. Seems they've dialled that back a bit with this tier, which is mostly good for the early bosses. I do think they maybe under tuned this tier a little. My group 3 hour raid nights, 3 times a week and we're on the third boss, just over the half way mark with him. We're not doing it blind but we're going damn fast. Seems like third and fourth boss could of done with a tiny bit more health. Even an average group is going end up skipping a mechanic or two in the end of each fight, as gear rolls in.
Does indeed make reclears less painful if a group member is having an off night.
i personally hate body checks. dying because ur partner fucked up mechanic isnt fun.
Im 100% against to many Bodychecks, I don’t mind 1 or 2 in the last savage turn, but having to many Bodychecks just ruins the experience. Rather add hard dps checks to compensate no Bodycheck mechanics. Top/Tier2/Tier3 in endwalker have been by far my worst experience ever in that game. Just blackscreening agin and again…………
@NeFlorence I think theres a place for both. I certainly think m1s and m2s ( even though im bad at m2s) were way more enjoyable than the other first and second turns in endwalker
I love it when professional players say: there is no dps check... Then u hit the pf and even with a clean run u end up at enrage 0.5 😂
I think them stepping away from having body checks after every single mechanic has made this tier more fun than any of the EW tiers. Because of the body checks in EW, a single player could completely lock down groups. At least now you can recover and continue to prog the mechanics even if there are a few deaths here and there.
Most people still can't kill bee. PF just can't do dps
me when me and the caster don't mess up any mechanic and mitigate but both die to beat 3 and rotten heart casts because the shield healer forgot they had buttons
Its insane how many people are 20k or below on dps with 710 gear, like hooooww
Jesus, i cleared it yesterday and what my friend and i saw in pf was just painfully. Sooo many viper being so shit doing 18k. Someone even doing 16k! We could not believe what we were seeing! So many dps are so fucking shit it’s so demotivating. After 3 hours of prog we saw everything and were disappoint as fuck because of the shit mechanic design and being way to easy for a savage fight but then we spend like 15 hours in „kill“ partys … for me by far the worst savage fight I’ve ever done
dps isnt too much of the problem, alarm 1 and beat 3 is the ones they struggle the most
i Think, for PF bosses tuned pretty well, and there is DPS check in PF... of course for static groups this raid is easy, coz they can do mechanics and do dps above grey logs.
i play mch.
when i see myself 3rd of the enmity list,
we're not clearing. lol.
@@asdsad17 I dunno man, my first clear of M2S in pf week 1 had a machinist who had a parse in the 90's. Dude was nuts
Thank you so much for acknowledging us out here suffering in pf haha
Honestly, I prefer the easier DPS check. It felt a lot more fun/less stressful, we always clear week 1 but this time we were able to do it a few days earlier, I loved getting my weekend back this tier.
Show this to PF. Ppl still can't clear m1s 3 weeks in
Its week 2 lol
@@KyMiyu bout to be 3 weeks
@@user-xj8mn8mp1r It's week 2 until it's week 1
My guy PF is never clearing these dps checks. M2S is agony in pf, its bad enough that people don't know how to play their classes; and now you throw movement, healing the boss, and leaving the bosses hitbox to it and it's pure agony. Finding parties that can even meet the dps check is beyond difficult.
M2S in pf for first clear was rough. About 12hrs of clear pulls. As a reclear maybe I got lucky. It was still tight as hell though even with no stacks. (With my static it wasn’t an issue.)
I massively disagree with the final part of your video. Asphodelos was also easy and then what happened? Abyssos came out and shit on everyone, complete 180 in difficulty and skill required. I don't think an ounce of "ultimates are the last bastion of difficult content" is accurate in any way. Very jaded and close minded point of view, Arthars. With that being said, I'm very tired of the first tier always being easy, it takes years at that point between the actual hard content and that fucking sucks.
From a commercial POV it would make sense that savage becomes more midcore (because the game doesn’t have much midcore things) and then ultimate becomes the hardcore. People are more likely to stick around and stay subbed if the content is fun and easier. The MMO landscape isn’t the same as ten years ago and so they’re gonna have to compete more, not just against MMOs
Dps checks a really easy in a static where u can chose where the first week gear goes not so much in pf where u are lucky to have someone that got a drop even on week 2 then not everyone pentameld not everyone pots twice or even once not every pot is the expansive kind and ofc not everyone is a super good player, add all those togheter and u see multiple enrages in pf.
The difficulty of this tier is just right and most important is fun.
Dont forget that not everyone even had 710 crafted gear, as m1 and m2 requirements are 700 and 705 :D
As someone who did savage week 1 and has done all ultimates. It’s a good thing arthas doesn’t design content for this game. He would literally send us back to the Gordias gulag.
Please get out of your static and go into the PF like the rest of us and you’ll see that this tier is tuned fine as far as mechanics. Yes the DPS checks were lower than expected so I won’t argue that but everything you’re asking for the fight to be is insanely droll and over done. Like I don’t think ever 4th turn needs to be body check debuff vomit. Titan wasn’t like that in Eden and he was very fondly remembered. Wicked thunder is fine.
Who cares if you do savage week 1 or ultimate. Did anyone ask you? Serious question btw. It's funny how when someone talks about savage raid there are people who jumps in with "aS soMeOne wHo dId sAvAgE dAy 1" as if that suddenly validates anything they need or have to say 😂
@@Yokai_Yuri He needs to let you know that he's better than you duh
@@Yokai_Yuri Well it does validate what they say. Kinda like how the initial healer striker's opinion was invalidated cuz they never touched EX+
Also "Who asked" in the comments section? A public open forum dude? lol
@@Yokai_Yuri I give someone more credibility based on what content they have completed in the game, like anything else in life.
@@Yokai_Yuri It's relevant because Arthars kinda made it sound as if all "veteran" raiders feel the way he did when this comment and its popularity shows that's not the case.
5:30 NO, the majority of the community is tired of every turn 4 being a door boss. That is just an extra savage fight that you refuse to give me loot for. It basically doubles the time to prog turn 4 and I don't want to constantly deal with having to set aside 20 or more minutes for a single fight in reclear when I'm not working on an ultimate. They are not important, and body checks don't 'test players', did anybody, literally anybody die to a mechanic and couldn't be ressed in time? All 8 people go back to the start of the pull. Endwalker was all body checks and people were miserable working on it. People clearing would finish the turn four and scream at the top of their lungs "FUCK THIS TIER" and never come back cause the gear doesn't matter.
The issue is that the 4th floor fights usually provide a substantial step-up in difficulty from the other 3, both in mechanical complexity and clean execution requirements during the first few weeks of the patch. M4s just did not provide that, so for high end raiders it feels like something is missing. Ultimately people do the fights because they’re looking for a satisfying challenge moreso then just a weekly chore to get gear.
This is my first savage tier on release and I found week 1 to be very fun. I'm not the best raider but I cleared up to M3S and am almost done progging 4 which I've been very satisfied with. As someone who is still relatively new to the game compared to all the veterans I feel like you hit it right on the head with the difficulty, it's a challenge for players like me but not too overly punishing to mistakes when not playing optimally and can still clear in the end with no deaths.
Seeing people skip mechanics day one was a surprise for me as I've only cleared on the last mechs before enrage so far.
Nah, fuck door bosses. We need more bosses like E8S. The lack of a door boss there didn't mean there were no hard mechanics after the transition at all. That was a fucking good fight.
I love M4S for this, i hope they keep using this modal and go harder next raid tier
E8s no but e4s yes pls. The mid fight cutscene was horrible
@@VuNguyen-pt1vf I mean, the cutscene is whatever, but the fight is one of the best savages.
@@VuNguyen-pt1vf an interactive cutscene, like M4S is good though. We could get more like that and I'd be very happy
@@Druuna89X probably they saw the p2 to p3 transition from TOP and decided to did it here. I hope they will do it for next tier too, but i think having door boss for the final tier is better, eden almost did it right.
I find this trend encouraging. This is my personal view, I'm not speaking in absolutes.
But WoW did this in their tenth year, too. Normal became closer to LFR, Heroic like old Normal, and then the hardest, sweatiest of all got Mythic. I'm keeping my eyes on the spot between Savage and Ultimate.
I think this is a nice warm up tier for getting used job changes and for the devs to get balance done.
This is very true haha. DRG has been dizzying to learn. Granted the two new DPS jobs just do a billion damage haha.
Why the dps check is like this: If it is higher, pf will lock both rdm and smn, 100%. I used my alt in pf and in the last few hours of the first week reset (My main cleared M4S day 3 in a static), I encountered 4 nearly clean (with one or two dds) M3S enrage because the caster is a summoner, we would have cleared if this SMN is a picto, they are afraid of facing the P8S backlash again. (if Abyssos tank balance was bad, the caster balance now is hell)
This is the first raid tier I've cleared in PF and honestly it was a lot of fun. If people think it is too easy, let them try to do sunrise without someone shooting somebody. The only fight that is really "weak" is m2, but others were really fun to prog and clear, especially the first week, and personally will be fun to optimize and reprog on different jobs. SE did a really good job for people to play with each other in PF, rather then for 8 sweat lords in discord talking about missed 3 GCDs after the first clear
Personal responsibility mechanics in savage=a guaranteed painful PF experience.
Seeing NA PF struggle throughout week one on M1S literally keeping me from progressing further has made me take the backseat until week 3 when majority of them are finally geared up a bit more, and those who wanted to check it out and not truly interested in Savage have backed out. It most likely was just bad luck with the PFs I got(People joining then leaving after a wipe, to healer and rez dps dying to mechanics over and over) but ooof was that a doozy the first week. Can't wait to jump back in this Tuesday and finally get my clears *fingers-crossed*
But, seeing videos of others prog/clear I can say this is a very fun tier that I can't wait to experience myself. I would join a static, but my schedule fluctuates too much atm so it wouldn't be fair to the team I join.
I love it it's not perfect but i think it is closer than most previous tiers we've gotten since eden's gate which, if people recall had similar difficulty discourse when it realeased and they are already taking feedback on it right now so we can expect a little bit of a tune up next tier.
True about M2S being a struggle for PF its been a nightmare
I cleared M4S just after week 1, and it’s amazing the difference in skills of players. My 1-3 reclear party took two pulls each with most party having 90+ parses which made the fights a breeze even with deaths.
My PF day one m1s clear was horrible. We met the enrage 5 times since the dps players were such shit. After clearing, one of the members announced “I didn’t even use tinctures! Haha”.
PF is getting easier to vet players in prog parties though using sites like tomestone to verify where they’re out. In a few weeks though, most these hard final mechs aren’t going to exist for us reclearers.
Yesterday, I cleared M1S for the first time (my first l“current“ savage ever) in a PF as an OT and while I had tincture in my hotbar, I never used it, because I wanted to be sure, that my party reach at least enrage before I begin to spent my tincture. In the End, we killed the boss, before we saw the enrage.😅
I did my reclear and parties were straight up wiping before Mouser 1, how the fuck.
Hey Arthars I really love this video format! Keep up the great work!
Ah yes turn 3, orange color...
I have come to accept that FF14 has reached its peak. There is nothing much you can do in terms of variability in raid because the human factor is the real challenge 80% of player base are facing. Either the issue comes from you or from others.
Cranking the number of people up will only cause more burn out if people can’t clear a content. Which leads me to the 24 man AR. It seems like a good idea on paper, but if it goes by the same recruitment process as savage PF we will all live in hell. We can’t go 8 properly and now there are 24 of them. We don’t have that culture planted 10 years ago and there are so many other allure which will discourage players. We are no more the dial up era and people treat games differently.
Either way, come what may. I just do whatever content I could. At this point SE raid is just a memory game for me and to train some of my hand eye coordination. That’s about all.
I do think the shift to making savage easier is a good thing, the jump to ex to savage was too big imo, and the slope to ex > savage > ulti feels a bit more clean. I'd be down for them to had other content in the future between savage and ulti even, that are more one off like an alliance raid.
fights can be much harder if they allow helpers without messing up loot.
nobody wants to help and nobody wants help. change it!!
Maybe a super unpopular opinion, but a door boss early into the set such as Alexander Fausts could serve as a good benchmark. That was at least a good starting place for me back then when I was trying to become optimal enough for savage.
This raid tier is nothing if not a great step in the right direction coming off of endwalker raids
Pfing for the first time after raiding the last 2 expacs with a static. The struggle is real but it's been fun so far. It's a little weird how messing up mechs don't outright kill you, especially in the first 3 fights, but so far from my experience I don't think this is a bad first tier to start off Dawntrail on. I especially love that in M4S, the boss transitions while actively giving players mechanics to resolve. A far cry from watching transition cutscenes during prog for Shadowbringer fights (E4S was ok but E8s was particularly egregious). Savage difficulty aside, I just really enjoy the setting of Arcadion and I'm looking forward to the characters that we will meet (and fight) down the road. It is genuinely funny how different the pf experience is to statics when it comes to damage though. Pf just can't do damage...
Also, Mariokart is the worst cope of a strat that makes alarm 1 "easier" I have ever seen. PLEASE STOP DOING MARIOKART IN M2S AND JUST DODGE.
watching people die over and over to mariokart when its literally easier to just sacrifice uptime, dodge and get what hits in you can when you can. my bf and i had a PF where the MCH was so salty we wouldnt do mariokart, the whole group voted 7/8 to do yolo. we cleared before they did. that was a god PF party though, we went in fresh with 6 others relatively if not fully fresh and in 4 hours ended up clearing when we replaced a couple people that got too tired and were making mistakes so they wanted to sleep lol. (our first pull went to 44% with 8 stacks on her, which was wild)
yolo is literally so easy, plant yourself at a wall, you just have to watch across from you and the sides and do small dodges.
@@michaelbart7014 yeah even playing as a melee i feel yolo is so much easier 😭Mariokart is like, heavily rng dependent and you might just get closed in against the wall if you're unlucky. Pf just needs to open their eyes man.
@@Valentyn-19 pf just has to have a strat for everything, to their detriment
Beats the hell out of Asphodelos, that's for sure.
I feel like that they are changing the design philosophy of how to divide the tiers.
Like, the first raid tier is going to be "easy" and less "think, more fights". The second raid tier will be harder with a moderated amount of movement and puzzles and third tier is going to be a "Holy shit what the fuck"
Week 1 in pf I barely beat M1S Monday night lol.
Tuesday of Week 2 however I was in a reclear group that cleared M1S before Raining Cats resolved, without using LB. Granted one guy was decked out head-to-toe in ornate gear haha. Still, the difference between pf and statics is SO REAL rn
Real talk I’m happy that the dps check is lower and I don’t get it that so many content creators are crying about this. All of them should think atleast a minute how hard the dps check will be in pf. Because at the moment its a nightmare! It’s so fucking hard to find peoples who can dps. I’ve seen So many dps doing 16k-19k and I’m talking about samurai, reaper or viper.. so many phys ranged doing 16k… that yoshi p lowered the dps check is pretty much the biggest w point! Dont want to imagine how miserable pf would be without all the buffs the classes get.
I think the dps check is fine and this is a great first raid tier
Honestly, the normal raid was so fun this time around that I actually will get into savage this time, so the timing is great.
why people complaining about bullet hell when it's already in lv70 byakko?
Maybe many people didn‘t do Byakko.
Cleared M1 and 2 week 1 in PF but could not pass the dps check of M3S even week 2. It honestly felt like purgatory. Gladly it's over and can continue to prog 4s. Raid tier so far has been more fun than anything in Endwalker and it's not even close
Doing these in PF is pure cbt. I bet they are simple with a proper, consistent static, but the shit you run into in pf makes it slow and painful. week one it took me 3 days to find a group that could do enough damage to clear m3s, week two it took me 5 days of non-stop pfing from morning to night til I found a group that could finish m4s.
Criterion Savage is supposed to be the in between of ultimate and savage, but the problem is savage didn't do anything different. If they fix that, it'll be great.
m4s pf broke me... every kill pf was a meme group, sunrise clean up groups not even reaching sunrise. Someone always dies before the last sword mech.
the balance between making savage more accessible for new players vs veterans could also end up being more apparent once the next tiers come out. If 1-4 are sort of easier than old savage but still challenging, they can do a step up for 5-8, and a bigger step for 9-12. That way maybe 7-12 are difficult enough to make hardcore raiders happy, while 1-6 are still there to give newcomers a path to get into savage content, still fun for everyone, but a middle ground for challenge
M3s trouble was Up time fuse being biggest wall as pf only. But man do i like how M3s go with up and down of dmg/healing
Honey bee savage is one of the easiest fights I've ever seen, and paradoxically one of the ones that the noobs in PF seem to struggle with the most. Took me 3 days of "clear parties" to find a group that could consistently get to enrage. Shit's wild.
Savage isnt Ultimate why do you people want this so bad 😂
I am glad this tier has no Puzzle mechanics. They are only really appealing to blind prog groups and week 1 groups who are trying to figure out the mechanics for the first time. A lot of the enjoyment I see from that mechanic is seeing people trying to solve the mechanic for the first time. However, people who aren't in that crowd just boil down to watching a video to tell them what to do, and just. You could argue that it is every mechanic, but the level of mystery behind puzzles like High Concept, or even in DSR is the entire appeal of that mechanic. Taking that away just makes it like every other mechanic, just with an extremely high learning curve.
Even though the DPS checks were relatively easy, compared to past tiers, i think this is much better than a tier people struggle to beat due to balance issues.
I think that was the main thing they were trying to avoid, where for the first and second tiers of Pandaemonium, there were actual struggles depending on the Job you wanted to play.
The more important thing however, is that i have no issues reclearing any of these fights. This tier is the first tier since... maybe the final Omega tier? Or Midas??? Where every fight is good.
Black Cat is a great first fight, even though you can skip her 2nd to final mechanic already which is insane. Not as good as Chaos, or Carbuncle, but really strong and interesting.
Honey B is queen, thats just a good fight, same with Brute Bomber. Wicked Thunder is also really good but maybe a bit too long of a fight. I think in terms of a "single fight", Titan is much better paced but Wicked Thunder also doesnt have a mid-point DPS check, she just keeps going which i think gives you more opportunity to recover in the back half of the fight, or crush the first half and make some mistakes later.
Overall this is a REALLY strong tier, especially for the start of an expansion
I think this tier was pretty fun to prog week 1 even though it wasn't too challenging. Allowed me to kinda relax and meme a bit more. However I look at the challenge of the tier and the ultimate coming out and get the strange feeling it's going to be rougher than TOP.
I think DPS check being easier is still a better thing to have than DPS check being reliant on RNG uptime mechanics or crits like it happened during P8S. It can be good to have a challenge but making it insanely difficult for certain job comps to the point even our favourite baldo had to swap off warrior really sucks. Hopefully the next one is tuned just right, not too high and not too low.
So with my static, we honestly dont even worry about dps checks because we know how to press the correct buttons, and its just us learning the mechs. But in pf, much different story. Ive have wiped like 7-8 times in a row on m2 due to people failing beat 2 and 3, and it was worse on m3, people dying to chain 2 and barrage 2, with about 12 wipes at 2% because deaths and people having less than a 1 iq. I honestly think you should go into PF and do m2 and m3 and youll see the pure suffering wether or not you get half competent players
Lot of people struggling in PF, I honestly do not think these fights should be balanced around PF. It's part of the inherent risk of playing with random people - sometimes you don't get a good group. Statics also have this issue if you aren't picky as you end up with some degree of sunk cost fallacy when sticking with a group, though I think it's more likely to play with worse players in PF than in a static.
They made Savage fun again. Yay!
There wont be a middle ground between veterans and regular players, if anything it is a gap that will get bigger. If there's anything to do, there might only be balancing, giving stuff to work for each demographic, and that would be generous if you dont count that veterans are mostly on the hundreds mark at most
Ive only been up to M2S so I cant really comment but on what I've done it's pretty fun. I'm a casual raider but have done savage since Omega. I like the Panda story better so far but I'm looking forward to what they do going forward. Bee My Honey is 10/10 though. I think body checks are fine if not done in every single fight and every single mechanic like last tier of panda was. But M4 not having a doorboss it makes it an endurance test because with no checkpoint you have to keep doing it over and over and people get tired just to regress.
Nothing is wrong with 2, it's literally just a skill issue. Do mechs, use eyes, its not hard and it's not tune-out-braindead easy. If people struggle with this it literally is just get good lmao
Honey B's Alarm Pheromone 1 isn't hard to dodge it's just... really muddied by poor visuals and RNG. If the dash markers were longer and didn't only stretch to half the arena it would be much better.
It's a high uptime fight with thankfully little intermissions where you can't press your buttons, so this has become a parsing tier.
the only reason dps check doesn't exist i can think of is because they reduce the boss hitbox back to they used to be, also because of the downtime.
Fantastic video my liege xdx !!
people on the bee fight just run around with their heads cut off, i noticed the 2nd phase of bees and where their green lines aim are baited to players, but everyone just makes them overlap the whole arena and generates so much GCD downtime moving around and praying the sequence doesnt clip you
Anabaseios tier had so many goddamn body checks people were sick of it, so hard disagree on wanting more body checks cause a raid "needs" it. The devs can come up with other challenges to test players skill.
Factor Uptime Strat :D
M2S is honestly the worst fight in the tier for party finder its almost a must to have discord vc or you will have to deal with irl rng because people dont want to pay attention and see their tower in beat 3 or mitigate during rotten heart or dont hug in the middle so you have to go to them or its a wipe. the dps check is fine but m3s was made at least 2x easier than m2s in terms of body checks they should have made turn 2 brute bomber and turn 3 honey bee.
this reminds me a lot of how blizzard did raids in dragonflight. I see it as a positive for the game. DPS checks should still be a little bit harder though
I can understand the complaint about M3s and M4s on checks. But not for M1S and M2S. You go in 710 penta melded. My PF party goes into M1S with ilevel 700 gear, and I can pray its melded, and M2s i can pray they have the extreme trial gear and not the 710 normal raid accessories because those remove 1 materia slot... SE cannot design the fights in a way that you cannot do it with minimum level, when they set the minimum level >.> like wut. I also started to give out food and pots to people because the amount of people who dont pot in PF is criminal, but now I started to see people who dont even use a lower grade food... please people, why you like dis T^T
Oh, I thought he said this was a very difficult turn 3 but he said a very typical turn 3. I thought 3 was just as easy if not easier than 2. 3 had a lot less awkward go to the corner mechanics than 2. In 2 I would sometimes a safety ranged attack if my GCD didn't feel like it was lining up with the corner dodge well to greed. In 3 I only ever felt the need to lightning shot one time if he didn't jump to my corner for the towers. The needle dodges were way less consistent in my static in 2 as well than any mechanic in 3. I also felt like the stack during the heart bullet hell was inconsistent depending on who had the stack in my group because they'd sometimes book it to a weird dodge last second. I felt like the mechanics in 3 didn't have anything nearly as awkward as that. I guess in other words, 2 had me leaving the fight wondering if there's better, less awkward ways of a doing a couple of the mechanics and 3 was so straightforward and consistently easy to execute so it didn't. In that way I almost think 2 was harder.
I wish I was at a high enough level of play to go “oh yeah savage? Nah that’s easy midcore to casual content” 😂 You’re not wrong though fr
Wanting a door boss instead of 5 fights is crazy
agreed, this tier was fun just not balanced, still good tho! surely players wont complain about it being hard (pf)
Healer main and I wish I could find an M1S group that didn’t force me to LB3 leaving us at a 10% enrage. I don’t know what more I can do.
God no stop asking for more body checks. Most unfun thing you can have in fights.
This is a great video - but some food for thought.
You were talking about Savages becoming "Midcore" and I'm here to say - they don't have to be. But I think somthing that bars a lot of new/casual players from Raiding is that the learning curve is VERY steep and that might need to be something the community needs to step up and help bridge if vets want to have more challenging content at lower levels without the casuals crying foul. I was interested in doing more raids - but I watch videos from other raiders and have no idea what is being said half the time let alone the mechanics and so for me it's kinda a turn off because I don't want to be a burden - but I don't know what's going on either - I haven't done this for 10+ years.
Additionally, not everyone is lucky to have diehard raiders friends who will make the time to explain and coach people through Savage mechanics. Many times - we don't need in-depth videos explaining every detail of a fight - but knowing the signs and key terms helps -- and a lot of content creators miss on this opportunity to make the community better which in turn means more fun shit for them because we then can all handle it.. (hint hint on potential video ideas)
Most players that play this game are casual and there biggest subs, not many people have the time to clear savage in week 1 because of IRL stuff, so no point catering to a very small amount of players who have nothing better to do then play FFXIV all day and night. Groups like yours have like top players that do nothing else but play games so of course it's going to be easier for you to clear.
I was (somehow) able to clear this tier full PF in Week 1 and I kinda agree with your points up until the final fight
First fight was phenomenal. Super easy, but was creative and fun. Massive step up from Erich imo
Second fight? Awful. I hate it. It's even easier than the first, but in PF the punishment for healing the boss is so severe it's ridiculous, and the fight isn't even fun. I hate pretty much everything about it
Third fight I *really* enjoyed. Even if the DPS check is easy, I prefer fights like this that are a lot more about execution and not choking after a major mechanic happens. It forces you to pay attention in a way that's more engaging for me personally, as opposed to the second fight where part of it is having to remember shit for a minute straight.
Final fight though, I'm kinda torn. I'll put it bluntly: I don't like door bosses. Athena last tier was an example of a door boss being done exceptionally bad. Phase 2 focused way too hard on puzzles and not about making the mechanics hard or fun. That fight was genuinely easier than P9S in every way except outgoing damage. I much prefer this type of design where it actually feels like a full fight with Savage exclusive stuff. I do wish they dialed up the difficulty in the second half though, because every mechanic there except *maybe* Sunrise Sabbath (that one's kind of a toss up) is exceedingly simple and easy. Again, the only difficulty was in the outgoing raidwide damage and sometimes the boss auto attacks, which is not a good thing. It does put them in a weird position where they have two options. They either do the door boss and risk another Athena situation with a good first half and awful second half, or they give us a long fight like this that's just easier all around. I do think they should open door number three and give us a fifth Savage-exclusive fight, so they could fully flesh out both halves into their own fights. As fun as P8S was, imagine if both phases were split into their own fights. That would be a fucking blast.
Overall I do hope that this tier showed them what works, what doesn't, and what they could do moving forward. They definitely made the tier on the whole more fun, and I enjoyed myself *way* more this tier than in the *entirety* of Pandaemonium (even in PF purgatory). If they could dial up the difficulty a bit, up the DPS checks enough to be challenging, *and* gave us a Savage-only 5th fight, Savage would be in a near perfect spot imo. Where it's at now is still good, but it always can be improved
Theres no dps check (i agree with this) yet in pf everyone is 6k+ dps below me and we just die to enrage in turn 2 with 1 lb3 and 1 lb1 or 2
It will always be funny that M2S has the exact same yolo dodging as M2N and duty finder in normal consistently does it better than savage prog parties
in savage they are baited, normal is just around the clock in order always straight across.
Advocating for doorbosses, common bad take from Arthas.
Idk, there are body checks but good tanks and healers can allow people to live them. I think thats rewarding. So far ive been having a ton of fun, only had time to prog halfway into m3s but its been. FUN. actually fun. EW was not fun after the 200th time you wiped to the same body check mechanic that you only see for 6 seconds and multiple people are really struggling with it. And PF got so burned out. It became impossible to get prog parties for last bosses if you werent already in phase 2 or on enrage. IMPOSSIBLE.
This is so far a lot more forgiving and accessible to players, something still to challenge them. The DPS check being messed up sucks, only because yeah it means that the fights will become very skippable. BUT. Its fun. its got its challenges. It has potential too. There has been some really fun mechanics, and even though you think that M2S was a 4 or 5/10, i think you are completely ignoring that pf cannot communicate the same way statics with voice calls can. Ive seen some chaos in there, some tom foolery of the highest order.
Im looking forward to the other tiers greatly, if only going based on the actual fun of these fights as opposed to the grueling strugglefest.
So I had a talk with some friends and my static and I think they handled it awesome. If Arcadion is a tier of us rising the start of a championship it makes total sense that the DPS check is easy on savage. I predict each tier is gonna get harder and harder leading us up to M/R 12 where we shall have the true final battle with a tight knit DPS check.
My groups already at M4S and we absolutely cannot wait to tackle the upcoming Eden Ultimate!
PF often has people using lower ilvl gear, not the new HQ crafted stuff melded. Seen a lot of neo kingdom gear being used for example, some even using 690 artifact pieces. If they're gonna tighten the dps check they need to increase the minimum ilvl to enter the raids, there's too much variance in PF gear otherwise
increasing min ilvl won't help variance at all, as you can enter duties with a preformed party without meeting the ilvl requirement. people will always be anchors because they won't properly gear before heading in.
Haven't played it at all (fell out of love with the game in DT) but from what it looks/sounds like, its just a proper Hard Mode for the raids, but not a proper Savage Mode. I mean it looks fun, but when you point out the DPS checks are a joke, skipping entire boss mechanics/phases, and min iLvl gear allowing you to survive cleaves... Yeah that sounds like its just a more engaging version of the normal raid tier is all.
Unfortunately due to life i had go retire from Savage raiding, so this video is really nice because i still feel in-the-know for these tiers
I would argue that being more lenient in DPS check is a W.
For a Savage Veteran and a player that genuine knows how to never press a wrong button, it's bad. But the fact that FFXIV rotations are not forgiving with errors, same as fight, is quite disheartening. Not hard. But disheartening. The fact that for a new player needs to fight themselves, their hotbars AND fast-paced mechanics has always been something that pushed a lot of people away from Savage.
The summary of the video really encapsulate the notion, I do think that this tier is more inviting for people who don't raid to try it out. I never cleared a whole Savage Tier, and this genuine has sparked on me and many of my friends who also never stepped onto this kind of content, not even Extremes, to try it out high-end content. And honestly? That's a W.
It really depends. No body checks AND no dps check is stupid cause you shouldn't be able to drag your way to a clear. But having body checks with a lenient dps check is ok
@@skcansMachine I would argue that anything that doesn't allow the fight to be recovered, and instead just resets the fight (beyond actual wipe mechanics), isn't a fun mechanic. And actually very frustrating to deal with "oh, 1 person died, now this mechanic happens, welp." I know it's the combat philosophy, but it's not really that interesting, unlike, you know. Genuine fighting.
@@MrJesuisOMG I agree but in the context of this game, it's the only way to make encounters difficult. Without body checks it defeats the purpose of big puzzle mechanics, which is a huge selling point of 14 raiding
most ffxiv jobs' rotations are pretty forgiving with errors tbh, with the changes they've made over time
miss a positional? you lose like 50 potency and still build gauge
used gauge you were supposed to save for burst? no problem, a lot of classes have bursts where not planning ahead only loses a couple hundred potency under buffs
can't keep melee uptime? viper has ranged stacks they can save, ninja has ranged ninjutsu, reaper can save harvest moon
casters and healers are also more mobile than ever, except BLM
only super punishing job I can think of is like, BLM, where dropping enochian costs a fuckload of dps
the problem with low dps players (at least when it's so low that they can't clear savage several weeks in) is typically not that they don't perfectly optimize the rotation, but that they don't keep the GCD rolling, or die. as long as you're pressing buttons and are alive, as long as said buttons are not EGREGIOUSLY wrong (like not knowing how the job works, drifting buffs, breaking combo or not using cooldowns) you'll be doing fine
I hope they keep this kind of design but make it's harder and of course dps check has to be better......pls dont make it like Abysso because that tier is soooooo unfun and burn my enjoyment for the game .
Damn I’m late to this party. This tier is too easy, if you don’t think so you’re very clearly new here. Before anyone gets defensive hard does not always equate to fun.
THIS TIER IS FUN!
I deliberately stopped hardcore after 6.4 to relax and focus on family etc.
This tier I did 6 days raiding between 3 and 5 hours on the evenings and we did slightly longer on the last day but not much longer. We killed week 1, without everyone being optimised, with deaths, with pots missing in windows, without everyone in penta crafted.
I get people want a week 1 and it’s easier to do but that just devalues the accomplishment felt from a week 1. We quite literally got a week 1 this tier by accident, without pushing for it. That’s not how savage has ever worked or should work. The tier is equal in difficulty to extreme trials outside of maybe 3 mechanics in the whole tier. That’s not to say the tier needs puzzles. Titan (E4S) was a great fight and literally didn’t have a puzzle anywhere, it did have a dps check and healing checks… and more than one tank buster every 2 minutes (absolutely no idea what happened with busters this tier but there just… isn’t enough of them and they don’t do much damage besides M3S towards the end of the fight. M2S you can literally just pop CDs and solo the stack buster.
One of the best feelings with actually clearing is hitting that fairly messy first time enrage. You clean up mechanics. You have a death or two and some damage downs, you get closer. You optimise damage a little to make up for mistakes. Each pull getting closer and closer until you kill, nerd scream and the dopamine kicks in.
This tier was kinda just “Oh. She died. GG I guess.” Hyper disappointing in that regard honestly.
All that said, better tier than Abyssos, not even because of damage. Carbuncle was a good start, P6 has one single mechanic and everything else is zzzzzzzz, P7 has no mechanics after week 3 since they’re all at the end and is probably the worst savage fight they’ve made from Deltascape up to present day, P8… Door boss is boring imo and phase 2 has one genuinely interesting mechanic… and baby’s first Hello World.
Anyway, enough yapping. Tier is to easy and lenient (PF fellas sorry but balancing around 19k deathless vipers should not be a thing. My first M4 I died twice and got a damage down during a 2m and still pushed nearly 23k) but it is fun
great video thanks for breaking down your thoughts and feelings and the tier. though i only just cleared M1s with my static i was dissapointed that there isn't a door boss. it's kind of nice having that break in the fight
The dps check is lower now because we dont have ridiculously huge hitboxes anymore. Remember these figts are meant to be clearable in pf
That doesn’t make sense
@@omensoffate What he means is that because the hitboxes are smaller you'd think there'd be more downtime, which means everybody's dps goes down, but in reality fighting for uptime tier this hasn't been hard whatsoever
we already know why the dps check is lower because yoshida literally said it at the chinese fanfes. and it is not what you said
by that same logic ranged tax shouldn't have existed in endwalker
Even for pf, the dps check was easy if your pf group has a few blue-purple players and maybe up to 3 grey parsers. Very early in the tier when your pf group prog point is ahead then the other groups this is very likely to happen I think since I kinda breeze through turn 1-3 in pf this time. However that dps check becomes harder in pf the later you clear. I was helping my friend clearing turn 3 yesterday and holy shit how many times we enraged that boss
Do you really want Endwalker dps checks with this much melee downtime? There is nothing that makes me want to quit raiding more than melees and tanks causing wipes to greeding in prog. Also wiping to enrage with zero deaths is unfun. The dps checks are perfect because melees can play safe and you can still clear. As it should be.
Tank main here o7,Im sorry if you like m2s but f*ck this fight, ive been stuck in pf and ive been doing better in the fight than i ever did I perfected yet i cant find a party that can clear it there is always something going wrong, at least lower the hp by 2% or make the bee attack line aoe more obvious i can dodge it but most of pf cant somehow
M2s is not a bad fight tbh. What makes it hard is that it's kinda a body check and if people fail heart mechanics, it's better to wipe than to keep going.
@@Yokai_Yuri i agree on that but pf cant do both somehow
13:13 If people keep using 3rd party software, they won't even have ultimates either xD
why did he sound like that?