Edit: Spoiler shield Talking about how counter picks led to victory. I think Mango counter picking to Fire Capital in game 5 is what cost him the set. Fire Capital is Rival 2's closest equivalent to Dreamland from Melee, possessing the widest stage length (2020), the third highest top blast zone (2254), and the second longest distance from the edge of the stage to the blast zones (1814). As stated by the commentators, the wider stage and blast zones don't play to Zetterburn's strengths as a character. You can see this in the set, with the large blast zones allowing Void to live a long time, and the wide stage length giving him a lot of room to set up smoke and clones.
True, also fors has pretty decent tools for edgeguarding zetterburn while zetter relies much more on raw kills. Since his recovery can only go so far and he doesn't have nearly as many resources to recover as forsburn, Void's flowchart at the edge let him kill muucchh sooner than Mango could due to the large blast zones
I’ve definitely seen him use it. I think it may be calculated vs Fors, at least pre zetter down b spike nerf- he may not have adjusted to that yet. Fors’s recovery is not that hard to edgeguard in certain situations (Void obviously does a good job not allowing those situations), so he may be used to accidentally spiking and being able to ledgehog vs fors up-b. Another thing is going low vs Forsburn is incredibly scary- that dair eats Zetter’s up b for breakfast- which is why Mang0 keeps going high, so he probably doesn’t want to go down without some kind of hitbox coverage. Is there any specific spots you think he should have used it? Would be useful to look at.
He clarifies later that VoiD showed him (I think) and CakeAssault that baby dash immediate spot dodge doesn’t stop your momentum, so you can get a sliding spot dodge.
Clone without full smokes can’t attack. The Forsburn can change directions of the clone and make it poof away with a hitbox, but other than that, it can’t attack or shield. There’s no visual tell other than observing movement, but in a game this fast, that’s pretty hard. Most of the time you have to guess and try to be safe from the other while hitting the clone. Oh yeah, and if it doesn’t disappear when you hit it, the other one’s the clone lol. I’m sure you realize that though lol.
If you're the opponent you just have to guess based on movement and behavior. If you're the Forsburn though, you control the Forsburn that comes out in the direction you're holding while spawning a clone
Checking back in after finishing watching this and I wanna vent a bit real quick. This commentary is genuinely awful. I feel like the general population of smash players puts up with it because they don't know any better and many of them wear tails. I'm fully aware that this is the bitter take of a bitter man, but for me personally it's just crazy that from an aural standpoint the "best set of all time" for rivals that takes place in winner's semis of a tournament hosted by one of the two most historic and longstanding top melee players of all time involves a nasally dude in discord trying to get his two cents in about the specifics of last patch's nerfs while I'm watching the last stock in game five of the set, and the fact that this isn't just common but now the norm. I'm sure this makes me an asshole in most of your eyes but its crazy how low the bar is for the sake of inclusivity. Get a guy with a voice and inflection that's somewhat decent to listen to, that understands baseline advanced fundamentals of the game, and is also focused on the product and convicted and takes pride in actually doing his job as a caster for an amazingly unique display of skill and talent. I know this might sound like it has some kind of bigoted undertones but that's not what I mean by inclusivity. People need to be told that they have no place casting a set that tens of thousands of people will watch and remember. A true friend would tell you to your face the reasons why they can't see you as the guy on the microphone. I wouldn't say these hurtful things unless I thought saying them mattered to a degree, and I think getting new people that have never played smash to try out rivals is an important thing. I also think that having potentially historic sets casted by complete rookies that can't place the importance of the caster role over their subtly ego-driven need to constantly insert statements that no one's ears but their own want to hear is a mistake. I don't think its the usual kind of mistake though, this is just the culture that we ourselves have nurtured in fear of opposition. It's just sad to think that it'd feel like a miracle to me if I heard a guy I didn't already recognize from a decade ago on the mic and thought to myself "This guy is pretty good at this," and that instead the average game 5 casting involves something like "OB eh.. OBS does like doing that [unintelligible] do anything. My camera seems to crash like, once a stream now. It's starting to become a running joke." Just talk about and react to what is happening in the game on the screen. I am begging you. If you're not committed to doing that, why in the world are you commentating?
Loving the MU is why you’re at 850 lol. No hate btw. It’s just that as Forsburns get better at edgeguarding you, you’re probably gonna like it less. Honestly, I think Zetter may slightly lose the MU. Fors dair angle is criminal in this game. Im 1100 rn. I need to grind back to 1200 though. I tried swapping to pro controller so I could play while my wife slept and lost like 9 sets in a row lol.
Actually I didn’t ask if you’re Fors or Zetter lol. I can see Forsburn enjoying the MU. Every hit you land probably feels pretty impactful if you’re Forsburn. Zetter has to chip a little if Forsburn DI’s correctly and there’s not platform shenanigans
Why comment this at all? It plays different enough that it has its own identity, and that's reason enough for people to prefer it over Melee. It's not that hard to understand. I like Melee better, but I love this game as well.
Not at all actually, he's so happy with this patch he only blamed himself and the last stage pick, plus he played against Void forsburn so it really was just a fair game
Rivals is just beautiful.
VoiD playing your main in a platform fighter is always so goddamn hype lol
Insane set, so happy to see Rivals finally getting its flowers. I hope this game sticks around for a long time
unrelated but lvl 104 on lox and not even double digits on anyone else is an insane way to live your life
I know who I like.
That's me but I think hit the 180s recently
Edit: Spoiler shield
Talking about how counter picks led to victory.
I think Mango counter picking to Fire Capital in game 5 is what cost him the set. Fire Capital is Rival 2's closest equivalent to Dreamland from Melee, possessing the widest stage length (2020), the third highest top blast zone (2254), and the second longest distance from the edge of the stage to the blast zones (1814). As stated by the commentators, the wider stage and blast zones don't play to Zetterburn's strengths as a character. You can see this in the set, with the large blast zones allowing Void to live a long time, and the wide stage length giving him a lot of room to set up smoke and clones.
I think maybe spoilers should be announced.
@@StephenHorvath-xh6ri I just edit my comment to not spoil anymore. Thanks for the heads up.
Not just that, but it also didn't play well to the match up. Void took a lot of stocks just with edgeguarding and Mang0 was struggling in that area.
True, also fors has pretty decent tools for edgeguarding zetterburn while zetter relies much more on raw kills. Since his recovery can only go so far and he doesn't have nearly as many resources to recover as forsburn, Void's flowchart at the edge let him kill muucchh sooner than Mango could due to the large blast zones
VOID VOID VOID. Never seen a Forsburn recover like this. BUILT DIFFERENT
that projectile parry into empty hop from void went fucking crazy 14:31
SPOILER SHIELD (i got spoiled LMAO)
I’m so glad this was an amazing set considering the actual lore of these two characters, sasuke vs Naruto fight frr
I'm gonna keep it real. The best Rivals 2 set yet is actually Void vs Grompyoo
I have been fiending pretty hard for high level forsburn sets. Safe to say the itch has been scratched lmao
4:50 When Void just creep walks out the smoke LOL
Goddamn rivals 2 is cool
This is some good melee
I’m so happy we can get the abyss skins now!
How?
@@robertrome6006 get a character to level 100 and you will get his abyss skin
void is fucking cracked. that weak bair into dair was insane
Void is such a gamer
Insane.
Rivals baby 🔥🔥
Smash players getting to see what good rivals look like
Smash players from legacy to modern games playing good rivals is a beautiful thing.
Can someone explain the 'icon thing' the commentators discuss right at the beginning of the set?
Actually hype af
That mixup at the end, god damn
Im curious, why doesnt Mango not use down b cancel? I dont think ive seen him use it yet
lol he doesnt know how
I’ve definitely seen him use it. I think it may be calculated vs Fors, at least pre zetter down b spike nerf- he may not have adjusted to that yet. Fors’s recovery is not that hard to edgeguard in certain situations (Void obviously does a good job not allowing those situations), so he may be used to accidentally spiking and being able to ledgehog vs fors up-b. Another thing is going low vs Forsburn is incredibly scary- that dair eats Zetter’s up b for breakfast- which is why Mang0 keeps going high, so he probably doesn’t want to go down without some kind of hitbox coverage.
Is there any specific spots you think he should have used it? Would be useful to look at.
Does Hbox hear the commentators on his own stream? lol I swear he would just talk over them constantly 😭
If only Hbox knew how to put the correct cameras on the correct sides of the gameplay.
Does anyone know what voids dash tech is they were talking about ?
He clarifies later that VoiD showed him (I think) and CakeAssault that baby dash immediate spot dodge doesn’t stop your momentum, so you can get a sliding spot dodge.
Hype set
How do you know which one is the clone?
Clone without full smokes can’t attack. The Forsburn can change directions of the clone and make it poof away with a hitbox, but other than that, it can’t attack or shield. There’s no visual tell other than observing movement, but in a game this fast, that’s pretty hard. Most of the time you have to guess and try to be safe from the other while hitting the clone. Oh yeah, and if it doesn’t disappear when you hit it, the other one’s the clone lol. I’m sure you realize that though lol.
If you're the opponent you just have to guess based on movement and behavior. If you're the Forsburn though, you control the Forsburn that comes out in the direction you're holding while spawning a clone
Please upload the Grompy sets they are legendary
Watched this live and I'm a big fan of Mango's Zetter
Void my goat
I find it funny that fire has 4 characters. I'd like to etalus and maybe sylvanos come back later
1:04 lie to me and say that clone pop didn't hit. wtf?
i edge to this
Mango looks healthy. I like it :)
I wonder if there’ll ever be another new good commentator again. There’s gotta be someone.
Checking back in after finishing watching this and I wanna vent a bit real quick. This commentary is genuinely awful. I feel like the general population of smash players puts up with it because they don't know any better and many of them wear tails. I'm fully aware that this is the bitter take of a bitter man, but for me personally it's just crazy that from an aural standpoint the "best set of all time" for rivals that takes place in winner's semis of a tournament hosted by one of the two most historic and longstanding top melee players of all time involves a nasally dude in discord trying to get his two cents in about the specifics of last patch's nerfs while I'm watching the last stock in game five of the set, and the fact that this isn't just common but now the norm.
I'm sure this makes me an asshole in most of your eyes but its crazy how low the bar is for the sake of inclusivity. Get a guy with a voice and inflection that's somewhat decent to listen to, that understands baseline advanced fundamentals of the game, and is also focused on the product and convicted and takes pride in actually doing his job as a caster for an amazingly unique display of skill and talent. I know this might sound like it has some kind of bigoted undertones but that's not what I mean by inclusivity. People need to be told that they have no place casting a set that tens of thousands of people will watch and remember. A true friend would tell you to your face the reasons why they can't see you as the guy on the microphone.
I wouldn't say these hurtful things unless I thought saying them mattered to a degree, and I think getting new people that have never played smash to try out rivals is an important thing. I also think that having potentially historic sets casted by complete rookies that can't place the importance of the caster role over their subtly ego-driven need to constantly insert statements that no one's ears but their own want to hear is a mistake. I don't think its the usual kind of mistake though, this is just the culture that we ourselves have nurtured in fear of opposition.
It's just sad to think that it'd feel like a miracle to me if I heard a guy I didn't already recognize from a decade ago on the mic and thought to myself "This guy is pretty good at this," and that instead the average game 5 casting involves something like "OB eh.. OBS does like doing that [unintelligible] do anything. My camera seems to crash like, once a stream now. It's starting to become a running joke."
Just talk about and react to what is happening in the game on the screen. I am begging you. If you're not committed to doing that, why in the world are you commentating?
I'm an 850 ELO baddy but even at my level I love this matchup :)
Loving the MU is why you’re at 850 lol. No hate btw. It’s just that as Forsburns get better at edgeguarding you, you’re probably gonna like it less. Honestly, I think Zetter may slightly lose the MU. Fors dair angle is criminal in this game. Im 1100 rn. I need to grind back to 1200 though. I tried swapping to pro controller so I could play while my wife slept and lost like 9 sets in a row lol.
Actually I didn’t ask if you’re Fors or Zetter lol. I can see Forsburn enjoying the MU. Every hit you land probably feels pretty impactful if you’re Forsburn. Zetter has to chip a little if Forsburn DI’s correctly and there’s not platform shenanigans
Couldn't swap those face cams D:
loving the wrong camera placement
Rivals April fools you go to play a character and it’s a different character with your character over it’s model
The furry game is going crazy fr
Why play this game at all when Melee exists I don’t get it… literally worse in like every way.
Why comment this at all? It plays different enough that it has its own identity, and that's reason enough for people to prefer it over Melee. It's not that hard to understand. I like Melee better, but I love this game as well.
Because Melee is super unbalanced.
Void v Grompy was better
Alright so how hard did mango complain?
Not at all actually, he's so happy with this patch he only blamed himself and the last stage pick, plus he played against Void forsburn so it really was just a fair game