As much as, and as many time as, Michael has been told that all bets are off and any rules can be broken to accomplish the mission, I am pretty sure that her breaking the prime directive will be completely ignored. What bothered me most about this particular episode was them just eating a random cube that there were handed.
I'm cool with any Trek that doesn't subscribe to the insane draconian "I guess we have to let them all die" version of the prime directive that polluted the TNG era.
I do beluve that starfleet shoukd not tamper to pre warp societies development. But I dont think they should let them die from a problem waaaay beyond thier capabilities to solve. Meritsm in a way that has a "social net" on the buttom so that you can bounce back from it.
@Elit333 No, only once the oxygen is gone would the fires go out. Thus, the oxygen levels could get low enough for a person to lose consciousness, but the fires could still be burning very weakly. Hence, why not put them out to stop them using up the oxygen.
So, I get the question about the panel and I thought the alge thing was a bit flimsy too, but I think there's something deeper about the control panel on the outside. Hidden or not, having it where it was seems to me to imply that repairs were supposed to be easily accessible from the beginning. It makes me wonder if what became the priests of the high tower had once been people from the community who had been educated on how to maintain the equipment. Over the generations, that information was lost and that's why the equipment failed.
3:08 yea Burnham deducing the external control panel via coloring of fungus didn't sit right with me either...IMO a more believable way to split the pair up would have Discovery's crew communicate there scans has detected there was a power anomaly near their location. But yea I agree with you this episode felt very middle of the road...by that I mean not best from this season, but not a terrible one either. It's just a solid episode, but one you can easily skip if you just want rush through the season arc.
A real throw-away episode. The moss, the fires, the "vacuum chamber" that never achieved vacuum that was needed to spray chemicals into the atmosphere, yet the rain returned. It seemed like it was written by trainee writers. Very amateurish.
What got me was vacuum chamber to mix chemicals, but didn't they describe the towers as being like Moisture Vaporators like on Tattooine? They they pulled water molecules out of the air and turned them to rain?
It doesn't bother me so much that they broke the Prime Directive. A lot has been written about the ethicality of the Prime Directive, and a lot of the time when characters break it, they're right to do so. And some of the best Prime Directive episodes come from exploring the moral considerations that lead them to that course of action. But it was quite jarring how quickly they broke the Prime Directive, and how all-in they went in doing it without even a moment's pause. Burnham was just like; "Eff it! Beam me in!" like she'd thought out this contingency and dealt with the moral implications ahead of time. Which is pretty in-character for Burnham, to be honest. To be fair, the damage was done. The Denobulans set up the weather control towers some 800 years prior, but apparently, nobody bothered to stop by to continue their maintenance. Which is exactly why the Prime Directive exists in the first place! If you're going to help another culture, like say, surreptitiously giving them technology to control the weather, you are on the hook to maintain that technology. If you fail to do so, the moral implications of that failure are on you now. That's not to say that you should stand by and do nothing, if the alternative means a culture dies of thirst and starvation. But you've at least got to consider that you're in for the long haul, and if they end up getting lost in a diplomatic shuffle, then you done screwed up, son!
@@joshuahillerup4290 they repaired the main one where the last village was and taught them how to maintain that one but I dont think they said they were gonna repair all of them across the planet
This is exactly the issue with Kurtzman Trek. There is zero reason to believe that a people's like the Denobulans would influence a prewarp civilization like this. In fact from what we know about the most notable Denobulan - Dr. PHLOX who was adminant to the point of almost resigning his position in order to allow even a space fairing civilization to progress on its own rather than give them advance medicine. Kurtzman Trek thinks if it throws an Easter egg in for fans that it doesn't actually have to pay attention to continuit in favor of over wrought relationship discussions . This series is by far the least talented in terms of writing, directing, and show running
That’s interesting, I found this the strongest individual episode out of the final season. I liked that the way they reacted to the knowledge was so different than in “Who Watches the Watchers?”, it could be viewed as a little readiness test unto itself. I also just figured the fires were a mercy, to make the person pass-out from CO2 before they properly suffocated.
Earlier in the season it’s said the mission Discovery is sent on is a Red Directive. Couldn’t this be used as an excuse to ignore the Prime Directive due to the importance of the mission?
Yes, it can. Apparently it excuses literally any violation of Starfleet regulations or Federation law, including launching a photon torpedo at a mountain next to a city in order to block a pass.
What bothers me is that Doctor Culber's abuela says she replicated her food. Even though food replicators weren't in widespread use for most of the 2200s. Maybe she meant "synthesize", I guess. edit: 2200s lol
Um, she was a holodeck character right? Maybe her vocabulary wasn't completely authentic. Culber did note that she gave an answer his actual grandmother never would have given him. So she was a flawed facsimile.
@@mikecaetano that would be the best way to explain it away, yeah. You'd think a thousand years of technological advancement would have solved that by now.
They call everything replicators cuz the writers never watched star trek. Even if they've been told they were wrong in the writers room, they've commited to continuing breaking the established lore, since they've already broken so much of it so far.
I liked the bird people, but "human sacrifice" seems a stretch for such an otherwise compassionate people. I don't mind the hand wavy nature of the clues Burnham found. And while I also wondered why Tilly didn't extinguish the fires in the chamber, I figured that maybe she was still following the prime directive there. The fires may also have been fakery built into the chamber by the Denobulans for effect. And if those fires were fed by methane, putting them out would still leave methane streaming into the chamber with the potential for an explosion.
If it's unsaid how the planet was stuffed up, maybe the Denobulians or Federation scientists caused it? Kind of like the Caretaker with the Ocampa? It's probably left as a topic for a novel or another series to fill, which isn't bad. Star Trek does build off of each series over time.
I like to think the Federation does break the Prime Directive from time to time, for humanitarian reasons: I really can't see them just letting whole planets get wiped out by an asteroid or sandstorms or such, just to maintain the directive.
WOW! She just figures out everything in EVERY episode and saves everyone and everything in EVERY episode. I'm surprised they didn't just say she was God in the last episode.
Anyone else kind of hope The Doctor will show up? He's such a great character and as a Hologram program they could find a number of reasons he's there in that century.
Well, we know there's a copy of him in this era on his way back to the alpha quadrant in a gifted shuttle. Also: the EMH is not the first character that comes to mind when some one references "The Doctor", so I thought you were asking for a crossover for a second.
Honestly, this eps. was just Meh. It also didn't help that a similar theme was explored in ST TNG "Who Watches The Watcher" and Stargate Atlantis " Childhood's End". And done much better. Plus, if you want to get technical. the Prime Directive was already violated with the weather station introduction.
I hate the idea that the radiation from the control panel was somehow strong enough to mutate moss, yet be undetectable by magic 32nd century tech. I mean come on. Supposed to be some dampening field but the eyeball tricorder still works? If the programmable matter isn't effected by the dampening field, why didn't tilly just activate the programmable matter space suit when she was gonna get sucked to death? Skill issue? The other chick is gonna die in the vacuum chamber, not even violating the prime directive since she won't know you did it.
Oh also, when they were in the future that had been destroyed by the Progenitors tech, why didn't they do any scans to find out what the tech was or exactly what it had done? They could have done like ANY research to find any clues that would help them figure out what it does and will be able to do after they get it or that could lead them to the other pieces.
Culber's faith trek is conflict in his personal relationship and this is very typical of how 'they' write gay characters. You watch, there will be something tragic come of it.
I have the terrible feeling that by the end of the season one of two thing (or both) will happen 1.) the discovery crew basically become gods with the progenitor tech 2.) the discovery crew go back and prevent the burn and the entire series doesn’t matter at all. Both of which would be really terrible endings.
I’ll be so glad when this crap ceases production. But, that’s simply my opinion. Im quite sure others are 180 degree opposite…and that’s ok. This series has just failed. All this… (I’ll shut up now…🤬)
You don't know what a Mary Sue is, clearly. Or you didn't watch the first two seasons, and how virtually everyone in Federation space (including Burnham herself) regarded her as a criminal and villain.
sry, but that is just not how religion would work. Like, to have it exposed that it is FAKE and you have been worshipping normal scientist.....unless they are seen as VERY unconfritational people. They would probably just think it is a test of faith, not just yield. Gonna be honest, discovery was not really my cup of tea. I do ENJOY your breakdowns though. Their fast, short, and 'sweet'
The father was concerned about how his people might react to the idea that their gods weren't real, but as Burnham pointed out, the fact that these things weren't really sacrifice-demanding miracles doesn't mean the gods don't exist, any more than an understanding of modern science means that our gods don't exist (it just means that creationist-style stories aren't a correct view of them).
This episode was such woke wankery. The best episode of new trek was the episode of Dr Mbenga in strange new worlds. Dealing with the Klingon war. That episode was brutal interesting Great Character development and unmercilessly violent in an awesome way. That guy should have got his own series.
Anytime someone uses the term "woke" in this context, I know exactly what type of person you are. You have apparently never understood the underlying themes that have been present in every Star Trek series.
Indeed. All these fools barking like seals about "woke" this and that and acting as if their remote controls are broken and they've got no choice but to watch whatever appears on screen. And yet, despite their somnambulism, they still have sufficient energy to troll.
As much as, and as many time as, Michael has been told that all bets are off and any rules can be broken to accomplish the mission, I am pretty sure that her breaking the prime directive will be completely ignored. What bothered me most about this particular episode was them just eating a random cube that there were handed.
I'm cool with any Trek that doesn't subscribe to the insane draconian "I guess we have to let them all die" version of the prime directive that polluted the TNG era.
I do beluve that starfleet shoukd not tamper to pre warp societies development. But I dont think they should let them die from a problem waaaay beyond thier capabilities to solve.
Meritsm in a way that has a "social net" on the buttom so that you can bounce back from it.
THE FIRES THANK YOU. I couldn’t ignore it while I watched, like they had them get lower to show the low oxygen, but like put them out.
You'd have thought Tilly of all people would've put them out to save the limited oxygen.
They fires would go out before they passed out
But yea they should have snuffed them immediately
@Elit333 No, only once the oxygen is gone would the fires go out. Thus, the oxygen levels could get low enough for a person to lose consciousness, but the fires could still be burning very weakly. Hence, why not put them out to stop them using up the oxygen.
@@benjamindrayton1380 test it bud
Picard took an arrow to prevent this sort of thing. This crew indulges in it. Sigh.
So, I get the question about the panel and I thought the alge thing was a bit flimsy too, but I think there's something deeper about the control panel on the outside. Hidden or not, having it where it was seems to me to imply that repairs were supposed to be easily accessible from the beginning. It makes me wonder if what became the priests of the high tower had once been people from the community who had been educated on how to maintain the equipment. Over the generations, that information was lost and that's why the equipment failed.
3:08 yea Burnham deducing the external control panel via coloring of fungus didn't sit right with me either...IMO a more believable way to split the pair up would have Discovery's crew communicate there scans has detected there was a power anomaly near their location.
But yea I agree with you this episode felt very middle of the road...by that I mean not best from this season, but not a terrible one either. It's just a solid episode, but one you can easily skip if you just want rush through the season arc.
Silence mortal, ... Burnham knows all.
Violating the prime directive is as old as trek.
A real throw-away episode. The moss, the fires, the "vacuum chamber" that never achieved vacuum that was needed to spray chemicals into the atmosphere, yet the rain returned. It seemed like it was written by trainee writers. Very amateurish.
What got me was vacuum chamber to mix chemicals, but didn't they describe the towers as being like Moisture Vaporators like on Tattooine? They they pulled water molecules out of the air and turned them to rain?
It doesn't bother me so much that they broke the Prime Directive. A lot has been written about the ethicality of the Prime Directive, and a lot of the time when characters break it, they're right to do so. And some of the best Prime Directive episodes come from exploring the moral considerations that lead them to that course of action.
But it was quite jarring how quickly they broke the Prime Directive, and how all-in they went in doing it without even a moment's pause. Burnham was just like; "Eff it! Beam me in!" like she'd thought out this contingency and dealt with the moral implications ahead of time. Which is pretty in-character for Burnham, to be honest.
To be fair, the damage was done. The Denobulans set up the weather control towers some 800 years prior, but apparently, nobody bothered to stop by to continue their maintenance. Which is exactly why the Prime Directive exists in the first place! If you're going to help another culture, like say, surreptitiously giving them technology to control the weather, you are on the hook to maintain that technology. If you fail to do so, the moral implications of that failure are on you now. That's not to say that you should stand by and do nothing, if the alternative means a culture dies of thirst and starvation. But you've at least got to consider that you're in for the long haul, and if they end up getting lost in a diplomatic shuffle, then you done screwed up, son!
they should have repaired some of the other towers so the people could spread back out and repopulate at least some of the planet
They did repair them
@@joshuahillerup4290 I don't recall if that was outright stated or merely implied.
@@benjamindrayton1380 I thought it was stated but not shown, but I would have to rewatch to be sure
@joshuahillerup4290 Yeah same, and I'll be honest. I can't rewatch Disco.
@@joshuahillerup4290 they repaired the main one where the last village was and taught them how to maintain that one but I dont think they said they were gonna repair all of them across the planet
Just noticed the new outro, loving it!
Honestly the whistling just made me think the Clangers were going to show up at any moment. Now there's a crossover I'd watch.
This is exactly the issue with Kurtzman Trek. There is zero reason to believe that a people's like the Denobulans would influence a prewarp civilization like this. In fact from what we know about the most notable Denobulan - Dr. PHLOX who was adminant to the point of almost resigning his position in order to allow even a space fairing civilization to progress on its own rather than give them advance medicine. Kurtzman Trek thinks if it throws an Easter egg in for fans that it doesn't actually have to pay attention to continuit in favor of over wrought relationship discussions . This series is by far the least talented in terms of writing, directing, and show running
@@ericmci Yes, but I'd rather ignore Dear Doctor completely, so it's fine with me.
@@ericmci what does any of that have to do with custard loving space mice?
That’s interesting, I found this the strongest individual episode out of the final season.
I liked that the way they reacted to the knowledge was so different than in “Who Watches the Watchers?”, it could be viewed as a little readiness test unto itself.
I also just figured the fires were a mercy, to make the person pass-out from CO2 before they properly suffocated.
Earlier in the season it’s said the mission Discovery is sent on is a Red Directive. Couldn’t this be used as an excuse to ignore the Prime Directive due to the importance of the mission?
Yes, it can. Apparently it excuses literally any violation of Starfleet regulations or Federation law, including launching a photon torpedo at a mountain next to a city in order to block a pass.
What bothers me is that Doctor Culber's abuela says she replicated her food. Even though food replicators weren't in widespread use for most of the 2200s. Maybe she meant "synthesize", I guess.
edit: 2200s lol
Um, she was a holodeck character right? Maybe her vocabulary wasn't completely authentic. Culber did note that she gave an answer his actual grandmother never would have given him. So she was a flawed facsimile.
@@mikecaetano that would be the best way to explain it away, yeah. You'd think a thousand years of technological advancement would have solved that by now.
They call everything replicators cuz the writers never watched star trek. Even if they've been told they were wrong in the writers room, they've commited to continuing breaking the established lore, since they've already broken so much of it so far.
@@BasedBidoof oh I agree. It's just fun to think about ridiculously contrived ways it can be explained in canon.
I liked the bird people, but "human sacrifice" seems a stretch for such an otherwise compassionate people. I don't mind the hand wavy nature of the clues Burnham found. And while I also wondered why Tilly didn't extinguish the fires in the chamber, I figured that maybe she was still following the prime directive there. The fires may also have been fakery built into the chamber by the Denobulans for effect. And if those fires were fed by methane, putting them out would still leave methane streaming into the chamber with the potential for an explosion.
If it's unsaid how the planet was stuffed up, maybe the Denobulians or Federation scientists caused it? Kind of like the Caretaker with the Ocampa? It's probably left as a topic for a novel or another series to fill, which isn't bad. Star Trek does build off of each series over time.
Great takes!🖖
I like to think the Federation does break the Prime Directive from time to time, for humanitarian reasons: I really can't see them just letting whole planets get wiped out by an asteroid or sandstorms or such, just to maintain the directive.
WOW! She just figures out everything in EVERY episode and saves everyone and everything in EVERY episode. I'm surprised they didn't just say she was God in the last episode.
I think this episode was a good placement for the season to take a breath
To bad, wish I could've seen Denobulans again.
It’s truly upsetting how bad this season has been. It’s time for this show to go.
The fires did reduce but yeah should have been a shot of them extingushing.
No, why didn't Tilly *put* the fires out to make the limited oxygen last longer.
@@benjamindrayton1380same reason why tilly couldn't lose 200pounds so she would require less oxygen.
Anyone else kind of hope The Doctor will show up? He's such a great character and as a Hologram program they could find a number of reasons he's there in that century.
Well, we know there's a copy of him in this era on his way back to the alpha quadrant in a gifted shuttle. Also: the EMH is not the first character that comes to mind when some one references "The Doctor", so I thought you were asking for a crossover for a second.
Honestly, this eps. was just Meh.
It also didn't help that a similar theme was explored in ST TNG "Who Watches The Watcher" and Stargate Atlantis " Childhood's End". And done much better.
Plus, if you want to get technical. the Prime Directive was already violated with the weather station introduction.
I hate the idea that the radiation from the control panel was somehow strong enough to mutate moss, yet be undetectable by magic 32nd century tech. I mean come on. Supposed to be some dampening field but the eyeball tricorder still works? If the programmable matter isn't effected by the dampening field, why didn't tilly just activate the programmable matter space suit when she was gonna get sucked to death? Skill issue? The other chick is gonna die in the vacuum chamber, not even violating the prime directive since she won't know you did it.
Oh also, when they were in the future that had been destroyed by the Progenitors tech, why didn't they do any scans to find out what the tech was or exactly what it had done? They could have done like ANY research to find any clues that would help them figure out what it does and will be able to do after they get it or that could lead them to the other pieces.
Culber's faith trek is conflict in his personal relationship and this is very typical of how 'they' write gay characters. You watch, there will be something tragic come of it.
I have the terrible feeling that by the end of the season one of two thing (or both) will happen 1.) the discovery crew basically become gods with the progenitor tech 2.) the discovery crew go back and prevent the burn and the entire series doesn’t matter at all. Both of which would be really terrible endings.
Can’t stand this entire season! Horrifying. Just when you think Discovery can’t get any worse it always does.
Then by all means, walk away. Nobody's forcing you to watch the show, nor these recaps.
I’ll be so glad when this crap ceases production.
But, that’s simply my opinion.
Im quite sure others are 180 degree opposite…and that’s ok.
This series has just failed.
All this…
(I’ll shut up now…🤬)
"...Michael doing what she does best..."
Be a Mary Sue? :P
You don't know what a Mary Sue is, clearly. Or you didn't watch the first two seasons, and how virtually everyone in Federation space (including Burnham herself) regarded her as a criminal and villain.
This episode definitely felt like a filler episode
Thanks for watching this trash, so we don't need too.. lol
a boring episode. And Burnham has become so cheesy and earnest I find her hard to watch.
sry, but that is just not how religion would work.
Like, to have it exposed that it is FAKE and you have been worshipping normal scientist.....unless they are seen as VERY unconfritational people. They would probably just think it is a test of faith, not just yield.
Gonna be honest, discovery was not really my cup of tea. I do ENJOY your breakdowns though. Their fast, short, and 'sweet'
The father was concerned about how his people might react to the idea that their gods weren't real, but as Burnham pointed out, the fact that these things weren't really sacrifice-demanding miracles doesn't mean the gods don't exist, any more than an understanding of modern science means that our gods don't exist (it just means that creationist-style stories aren't a correct view of them).
Is this Harry Potter ?
What you can learn from this episode is when you are 300pounds you can win a marathon.
188
This episode was such woke wankery. The best episode of new trek was the episode of Dr Mbenga in strange new worlds. Dealing with the Klingon war. That episode was brutal interesting Great Character development and unmercilessly violent in an awesome way. That guy should have got his own series.
How did you watch that episode and somehow _miss the message completely?_
how was it woke wankery? because it mentioned in passing that the aliens had 3 genders? lol grow up
Anytime someone uses the term "woke" in this context, I know exactly what type of person you are. You have apparently never understood the underlying themes that have been present in every Star Trek series.
Indeed. All these fools barking like seals about "woke" this and that and acting as if their remote controls are broken and they've got no choice but to watch whatever appears on screen. And yet, despite their somnambulism, they still have sufficient energy to troll.