Latin by the Ranieri-Dowling Method | Latin Grammar, Latin Cases, Latin Declension Chart
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2020
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Original webpage for Latin by the Dowling Method by Dr. William C. Dowling:
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@polýMATHY I have two questions. 1) do you think a language such as Old Norse can be revived and spoken by one person though no one else speaks it and there is no one to practice with? And 2) how could I use this Dowling method for old Norse? Old Norse has the usual Indo-European three gendered system, along with weak and strong nouns, and multiple declension types for those genders. How would I go about applying this method to Old Norse?
instaBlaster...
On my opinion, the best way to learn a language is to use it. If you are able to put in the right cases yourself, if you actively do it inside a sentence, then you easily recognize it when written in a text. This is much more powerful then having to detour by reading a word, declinating the word in your head, identifying the case and then translating it. It is applied rather then theoretical knowledge what you need in order to master a language.
I have BOTH.
@@hrafnagu9243 see Dr.Jackson Crawford videos for old Norse, as a user of this program I think that it will work with any language.
I like how latin is 2.5 hours and greek is 8 hours. Really shows which is more complex
Hahaha indeed!
Greek for me has always been a disaster: despite studying it for 5 years I never felt the connection I had with Latin.
Greek "mind" works differently IMO
I think it is because there is no that Greek, there are many Greek languages and Latin whereas is just one particular language which just shown us slight differences.
Quite so!
Because you have to learn the Greek alphabet as well.
Greatly appreciated this... It's exactly what I needed in 1965, when I was confronted with studying Latin in high school. Instead, I was pronounced "stupid" because the teacher, who grew up speaking inflected European languages, expected a native English-speaking student to grasp the mechanism of inflection without any explanation. By the time I was a lecturer in Sanskrit at the University of California at Berkeley, I can say I understood inflection, but too late to rescue my study of Latin. Oh well...
Thanks! Wow that's so cool.
My Latin teacher at high school introduced the declension of nouns in the first lesson. But as a kid of 12 I simply didn't understand what the declensions were for. When I failed the test, instead of apologising for his poor teaching and patiently explaining the concept, he humiliated me and physically beat me in front of the entire class. (Nowadays this would be regarded as an illegal assault.) Which as you can imagaine sparked a lifetime love for the study of Latin ... not!
@@tullochgorum6323 All too familiar... I wasn't subjected to physical punishment, but being labeled "stupid" at that age was bad enough...
@@mdlahey3874 The thing is I'm reasonaby academic and went on to get a 1st at Cambridge in Economics. But you can't understand new concepts out of thin air.
With English being a minimally inflected language, surely a Latin teacher should start by clearly explaining the role of inflection as done so well in this video.
I learned mensa, mensa, mensam etc but didn't understand what the different declensions were for...
I soon developed a dislike for the language and was consistently bottom of the class, when I was top in many other subjects.
Early experiences can be influential, and teachers should take great care to build understanding and enthusiasm when the introduce a new subject.
You are an inspiration to those seeking to improve themselves. Thank you.
I just wanted to thank you for your incredible efforts to make these ancient languages accessible. You are a real gem of this platform.
Very kind of you!
@@polyMATHY_LukeWhat a wonderful masterpiece of insightful strategies for learning Latin. By the way, Luke, how much is it cost (montly) to get into your Latin course?
Way back in 1977 we used a similar method in our high school Latin class, except the actual textbook was completely in Latin (only the word "Copyright" was in English), and Father Bayhi did not speak English at the beginning of our Freshman year. He walked into class, said "Welcome to Honors Latin I gentlemen. This is the last English you will hear for a while. Aperite libros paginam unam." and we did not hear anything in English for the next six weeks. He used mime and held up objects to teach us simple vocabulary for the first couple of weeks. The beginning of the textbook was written like a 1st grade reader. The opening lines were "Roma in Italia est. Italia in Europa est. Aegyptus non in Europa, sed in Africa est." As the book went on it told the story of a typical Roman family, and the concepts in the book gradually became more complicated. They introduced different tenses, began teaching us things like the subjunctive mood, , etc. (all supplemented by our teacher who spoke Latin often to us and expected us to answer in Latin as we were able). Eventually in our third and fourth years we just read/translated Latin source material like Sallust, Cicero, and Virgil. But to your point, Father Bayhi also made us write out tables of the endings of things, using a base root word like amare or habere. For the first two years we had quizzes of writing the tables, they were on our tests, and sometimes when we just weren't getting what he wanted us to learn he would quietly say "Pearls before swine" and then tell us to write out various tables.
In all reality, that's the same book most of us learnt Latin with. Now it's called Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. Back then I think it was called something like Lingua Latina secundum methodum naturae. Luke also teaches using this book. The whole series is priceless diamond.
@@Michail_Chatziasemidis Yes, it was the second nature method. I think I still have the third or fourth year book somewhere in my library.
Learning Latin as a child/teenager at school really helped memorise all those tables, the brain is like a sponge and I can still recite all the declensions and conjugations two decades after but now I'm lucky if I know where I put my keys 😭
Haha! I forget what I'm saying mid-sentence, personally.
As a early teen that gives me more confidence in learning latin
Where did you go to school? I went to Boston Latin, I always love meeting other nerds who had to start learning Latin at 12
You're such a good bloke. Truly diligent in your work as well. Hats off mate, for real.
Thanks, mate! Right back at ya 😃
This is great! Years ago, around 2005, Dr. Brian Edgar, a fellow Dowlingite and Rutgers alum, used an adaptation of Dowling's method to teach Latin with great success to low-income NYC high schoolers at Brooklyn School for Law & Justice.
I feel like studying (Modern Standard) Arabic has prepared me well for learning Latin. Not because they're similar- _not at all-_ but because to truly comprehend the finer points of Arabic grammar, you must understand such things as nominal case, verb conjugation, adjective-noun agreement, etc.
MSA is much more inflectional than my native language... so I think I'm ready for Latin. My initial impression so far has been that it is actually surprisingly easy! The grammar is no challenge to me, but even easier is the vocab... since I'm already familiar with much of Romance vocab through English & Spanish.
Great! Do it
I failed my oral Latin exam last week, mainly because I couldn’t get the hang of the basic grammatical structures. I purchased your program and already feel much more familiar and drawn to the language ☺️
I’m sorry to hear it didn’t go well! Yes, if you know all the paradigms you’ll be very comfortable. Thanks very much.
I admire your determination and I love the advice to listen to audio recordings. Just FYI, the book I use to teach my students has the opposite approach. It teaches only a little at a time about grammatical points so that kids can go * straight * to reading and translating sentences. Vocabulary is added incrementally, as are new grammar concepts. USING the grammar as they learn it means they're biting off reasonable chunks and learning things by heart through practice as they go. In a few months, they end up in the same place, having learned the same information as other first year students, but in a much more enjoyable way.
Salve, Lucius! I have been watching your videos since I discovered your channel (via the Spoken Latin vs Spanish, Portuguese and Italian video) and I must say that I really enjoy them. You actually inspired me to pursue my wish of learning Latin and it became my new hobby. I already bought the book LLPSI, a very nice recommendation from you and I'm going to start with your methodology right now (audio and tables). Awesome, let's keep this language alive and literally "Spread the word"!. Vale!
Study Latin and become a winged horse.
True! 🦄
I just wish to say thank you, Luke!
Especially the everday part and that missing a day really hurts, even if it doesn't feel like it, is a necessary hard pill to swallow and I wish more students would realize this. Now I'm stoked to start my Latin journey. 👍🏻
That’s great! I wish you the best on your journey, as it is one of the most rewarding I’ve ever embarked upon.
I have tried learning Russian and Spanish. I tell anyone most commercial language programmes sold really don't work. Every section has lot of English describing very little of the target language. And because language learning is based on reparation, I learned the English by default. I could recite the description, but not the target language. The Lingua Latina really is a genius course. I got to lesson 5 and it took ages to get there. Every time I thought I had learned it all there was a lot more to learn. My husband learned German. His course had earphones and columns and columns of conjunctions on a page. The earphones were plugged into ears and they drilled and drilled these columns. He has not forgotten any of these verbs in 30 years. It took me only about 2 years to forget every bit of Russian. I could not even remember the alphabet. So I agree with Luke that the only way to learn is to learn. Drill it in.
Two minutes and 30 seconds in, and I knew I needed it. Just bought the audio and spreadsheet. Thank you!
Thank you so much! 🥰🥰🥰
This is my third month, and I am still half way this lecture by Magister Lucius. It tears me up when it dawns on me that it might be beyond me to read Cicero in its original form
This works so well, I had that problem where I was looking at the sentences and trying to piece them together like a puzzle instead of understanding them organically. Thankyou! Its hard but very helpful
2005? Thats such a relief. For some reason I thought he had only begun studying this a few years back. Makes me feel better about my progress.
So motivating and thorough your explanations, Luke !
You know, I started learning music and piano two years ago and I rapidly noticed that the learning methods are exactly the same as in language learning.. you need to repeat, copy, learn by heart the circle of fifths and basically figure out all the patterns and "deflections" in a piece of music and be, of course, consistent... and have fun bien evidemment! I'm going to get to Latin (I had copied some fairy tales 10 years ago but didn't elaborate after that) when I get more fluent in Spanish (third Romance language) and will definitely want to learn withyour/Dowling Method and la famosa Familia Romana... I also have a copy of Apuleius' Amor et Psyché as motivator...
Thanks for all the informative videos... I discovered them via Norbert's Ecolinguist.. Bonne continuation !
If I may provide a piece of advice: writing along is a great idea but if you're going to do so make sure you're writing by hand. When you write by hand, you make specific motions that help your brain encode information better (I've read about research confirming that writing things down aids remembering and I've observed the same thing in my own life). If you type it out, it's not as effective as your brain considers every keypress as just another generic tap of your fingers and that doesn't really reinforce the memorisation process. I hope you find it useful.
And this is why learning cursive really is good, no matter what people say.
I disagree. I've been learning arabic. And typing in my phone's keyboard in Arabic is an amazing way to remember the words. I can write a lot faster in my phone than by hand. And don't need to have paper and pen by hand, at any moment I can just take out my phone and start typing verb forms or whatever.
There IS a motion when you type. If you know the layout of the keyboard you can make mental relation between the way a words looks and the path it takes in the keyboard. Which can be helpful if at any point you don't remember how to write a given word but do have an idea of what's the "path" it takes to write it. You can then visualise that path, and hopefully remember it. It's more than just mindless taps
@@sebastiangudino9377I think this works better for people that can type without thinking or looking. Some people struggle with typing and it causes them to think about typing more than the thing they are learning.
@@Eve0127 Yeah, absolutely, it might also be generational, I learned touch typing as a kid when I was on school. Older folks who didn't grow up with a keyboard everywhere might not have the same mental correlation between words and finger positions
@@Eve0127 But that's how writing is for me..
Thanks for all your wonderful content. I've studied Koine for a long time. I'm ready to tackle Latin
Thank you for detailing this method. One variation of your tip to say the paradigms aloud is to sing them instead. Doing so fixes the forms in memory even faster for me.
I did this "brute memorisation" on my own and it definitely works. My only issue is with vocabulary. Most times I end up having to consult the dictionary so I can make sense of a sentence. I have been translating the Gallic Wars and I've been cruising through it! And I have been learning Latin for little more than a year! Granted, I spent hundreds of hours memorising declensions, verb forms, pronouns, numerals and orational particles, but it was definitly worth it! I long to reach a phase when I can accompany your more advanced work on your ScorpioMartianus channel.
Translation ? there is your problem. You must strive to understand "As is". Work with familia romana.
I have recently bought your Ranieri-Dowling Method audio course. I look forward with great excitement to put into practice this teaching methodology. To some extent I have not always appreciated brute memorization, as understanding 'the why of things' is often more important, id est deep, holistic understanding. However, I do think that in this particular 'case' brute memorization of grammatical cases and conjugations is probably best. I love Latin precisely for the reason it is a highly inflected language, so memorization of those is likely not a bad place to start when aiming for mastery!
I have set myself the goal to read all the classics in their original, unadulterated (untranslated and un-opinionated) form; To gift myself proficiency in Latin and Ancient Greek autodidactically to achieve this objective is station number one!
"This is the 'new' grammatical concept you're going to have to learn to study Latin."
Jokes on you, I already speak Polish
Edit: Alright, just finished listening to the whole thing. It really looks like I already have most of presented concepts understood, since they are identical in both Polish and Latin. That should make the whole thing at least a bit easier for me than for not-so-heavily-inflected languages' speakers. This, and your quote at the end of professor Dowling's website really made me excited. I'm ordering a Lingua Latina as soon as possible just to have it wait for it's time, when I'll be able to start exploring it. For now I'm beginning my brute-learning journey. Thank you for your content, it really unboggled my mind about how to start with Latin.
Just discovered this and your other channel. I had Latin for a few years at uni back in the day and we used Wheelock's Latin. I remember thinking I would never learn how to read it properly and now I am considering getting back into it. Magnus homo es!
Awesome method. I've always thought that auditory perception is the cornerstone of language learning.
This is genuinely just what I feel I need right now, I had started Lingua Latina with a base idea of the different cases and such, but I'm severely lacking in fundamentals and it's beginning to show. I felt a bit called out when it was mentioned that just having a general idea of what was happening in the chapter wasn't enough, and the grammar sections and pensa were being sorely neglected. I surprised myself though, I've made it to about Chapter 20 or so, so I know I can do this, I just felt I needed more, and this may (fingers crossed I can stick with it) be exactly what I need. I fully intend to purchase all of this from your store, and try my hardest to put in the effort! And I'm glad to be able to help support you, hopefully I can join your Patreon sooner than later as well, because you are the inspiration and the hand that is shaping my Latin journey. Gratias tibi!
Edit: And the cost is so low! I can't thank you enough for all of the time and effort that's been put into this project, and you're practically giving it away. You are a saint!
Oh thank you so much! 😃Yeah, I'm not sure how to price it, honestly. I'm really glad if it's helpful! I appreciate the comment very much.
Man, that's what I was looking for since two years ago. I found this video by accident, and in the first minutes I realized that that was exactly what I needed. Thank you very much for your content, Luke! Keep being awesome :)
I’m delighted! If you happen to get that audiobook let me know if it helps
@@polyMATHY_Luke Professor Luke, honestly, I can say that your Latin material is THE MOST USEFUL from all the internet! Really, I have no words to that. The purchase was the best thing I did ever. I loved every single thing of your audiobook, and really, you did a great job in every single detail. The steps you added on the Downling method were THE BEST and you made it really skyrocket, it is now improved by you. Now I can learn proper Latin, differently and definitively, thanks to you 😊 ohh, I'm already keeping an eye on your Acient Greek material ahaha, and really, you became a real example in my life and a great life-changer, also. Really thank you for all, Luke, thank you for being more than an average professor, that you may keep doing this great job and giving hope to students to be better, and a change to be like you. You are unique! My best whishes :) ✅
I did Latin for 8 academic years at school, and hardly remember any of it, I bought 'Gwynnes Latin ', about 10 years ago, meaning to take it up again, I did for a bit, but then.. you know. Now I want to do it again, I think this is the best way to learn it, it makes sense to memorize all the declensions etc, then you can construct and translate effectively. The good thing about doing it this way is that you can do it anywhere when you're not having to concentrate on anything else. I may get back into this, I want to at the moment, we'll see. Great video, thanks.
You are a dream come true I literally just purchased your audio book thank you so much for making my Latin beginning less daunting ❤😅
Thanks so much! I hope it helps. Best of luck!
This has motivated me to study Latin and given me some ideas to improve my German. Thanks, mate. Good work.
Thanks, I’m glad to hear it
Thanks, Mr. Ranieri. This works.
I love it!! Writing everything down to learn Latin really messed me up in learning Italian.. I had zero concept of auditory learning; it was as if my brain was stunted from all those years of just writing, and not hearing and speaking. Yeah, I know it’s a dead language, but learning the old way only engages that passive kind of learning.. you need to speak it ti make those connections in the brain!
this would be why i still have a good portion of my german even though i haven't studied german in school in a year! my german teacher used a system very similar to this (albeit on a much smaller scale). he did what was called vocab lists, which involves writing a german noun with the article three times, followed by the english translation. in combination with his very easy to do but very powerful lessons and homework, i am confident in conversational german even to this day. he's been teaching since 1997, and it really shows.
ich vermisse dich, herr holzwarth. du warst der beste deutschlehrer in der welt
I subscribed to your channel the moment I heard you say, “memorise the tables!” I have made an attempt to study Latin a few times in my life, but always with some easy guide which promised mastery without effort in a short amount of time. Now I’m looking forward to beginning the journey anew!
Wonderful! Yeah the audiobook I sell is very popular for this. Best of luck!
@@polyMATHY_Luke Yes, I'm considering that. Is the audiobook the same set of recordings available on your Patreon?
Hi Luke, I was seriously inspired by your "7-Step Ranieri Re-Reading Technique" video, and after years of grappling with teaching myself Latin, true fluency is actually starting to click for me now that I'm putting your advice into practice with "Lingua Latina Per Se Illustravit" :D
I just purchased your "Ranieri-Dowling Method" package, and looking forward to tackling it! Incidentally, as a music teacher, your videos on language-learning have also inspired additional insights into the process of learning an instrument :)
I saw that too bought it! Thanks so much; it means the world to me. I’m sure you’re going to have such great success! Especially using LLPSI. If you have questions as you go you can ask in the comments of a video, or for instant feedback I hope you feel welcome in my Discord! Link in the description
@@polyMATHY_Luke Sounds great -- thanks!
Thank you Luke !
Grātiās !
My pleasure!
This is a delightfully unfashionable approach to language learning - and as an analysis-driven learner it's one that rather appeals to me.
Of course the assimilation folks, who for some reason often have a semi-religious belief that they are custodians of the "One True Way" will tell you it can never work.
But millions of students over the centuries became fluent with very similar techniques. It's good to be reminded that it can be effective if properly applied, so it remains a live option for people who are drawn to it.
Now I see how I'm blessed with my native language (polish) with all those cases and conjugations :D
Polish itself is a blessing upon the world.
♥️ 🇵🇱 🤍
@@polyMATHY_Luke ❤
Update: I love it! It's a bit tedious, but that's to be expected. I haven't quite finished my first 100 repititions for the First Declension, but I just want to say that simply writing out the words saying/thinking what they are (genitive, dative, etc) didn't help a ton, I found it much more useful to take the time to write the word and carefully say/think about it's meaning. Rosīs, plural dative. I give the roses to you/These roses are for you. That really gave my mind a clear and distinctive definition for each of the words and how they would be used, and I intend to continue this pattern through the rest, though it will take quite some time with the addition of defining each one as I go. Thanks again, Luke!
I have trouble with the idea of just learning the paradigms without any understanding.
I went to Catholic school in the days when all the services were in Latin, and I was also an altar boy.
I knew all the responses by heart, but had no idea what I was saying.
Equally, I knew many Latin hymns and other prayers by heart, with no idea at all of what they meant.
Later when I did some Latin in high school, we could rattle off the declensions and conjugations without really knowing what they meant or how to apply them.
Hic, Haec, Hoc, Hunc, Hanc, Hoc, -
amabo, amabis, amabit, amabimis, amabitis, amabunt.
It was like "The Witch Doctor" song by David Seville, where the chorus goes:
Right! You’d have to be comfortable with that level of ambiguity. If not, learn them progressively as you use FR
Just purchased a copy! I took Latin for 3 years in high school, and just as Dowling writes, I can't read a sentence. Hopefully this works out for me. Thank you Luke!
Thanks so much! I hope you have success! Remember that my LLPSI playlist on my other channel ScorpioMartianus is essential! 😃
polýMATHY Already have it bookmarked. Thank you!
@@polyMATHY_Luke Here I am, a year later, and I am much better than when I was when I wrote the original comment. I did the whole thing over summer break, and it really reignited my interest. Started my freshman year with a new skill. Thank you Luke.
I just bought your audiobook, got to go and start! Back later to translate the Caesar quote...
Thank you so much, Lauren! I saw some of your videos and your voice is simply amazing. 😍😍😍 I've subscribed! More singing, please! 😃
@@polyMATHY_Luke well, I think your speaking voice is wonderful and yesterday I heard your singing voice is fantastic, too! Well met on RUclips, I say! Thank you for your lovely comments. :-D Your audiobook and study materials that come with it are excellent, really helpful.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Salve, Luce! I passed both my latin exams with flying colours! It´s only the beginning of learning latin and all that comes with it, of course, but it´s a milestone for me. I needed to pass this course for my master´s, too, so great that I already had so much input from your videos and your course. I printed out your spreadsheets on A3 and highlighted endings etc., did the reciting along with you...Super useful and well worth the purchase. Your latin ASMR videos must have gone into my subconscious, as well... thanks! Now I have to find that Caesar quote to translate, as I promised... gratias tibi ago - vale!
Thank you so much for your great work, Luke! I’ve started learning Latin for some weeks now using LLPSI, your videos, and by memorizing paradigms. Repeating aloud 100 times works really well - although I must admit I was very sceptical before I started a week ago.
You say/write that one should memorize ”all regular and most important irregular” paradigms. What exactly are these ”most important irregular” ones? What irregularities are less important?
14:29 this made me relearn a thing i was spending 2 months trying to remember
Although I didn’t learn Latin, I am learning Italian, and I agree with you-even though I haven’t watched the whole video. Because It is always good to repeat yourself not only to be familiar to the word, but also make sure you are pronouncing it correctly, too. Also, writing it is also a good method, because you have to think to write what word and which order to write them on, which improves your memory. In my common sense, it is a good idea to have breaks. I’m not saying taking an half an hour brake or more, but just 5-15 minutes. This is because when you are in a brake, you are not thinking on your work, and when you get back to your work, your brain would have to think harder just to find the word you just learned, which might improve your knowledge.
Ps. Don’t take this as a professional advice, I’m just a minor using common sense.
Some time ago I found a video on Xiaoma's RUclips channel where he talked to Luke Ranieri and I saw the beauty of Latin.
Today I start my journey with the Ranieri-Dowling Method! Wish me luck!
Wonderful! Best of luck to you and thanks
How has it been?
@@exulHibernicus It hasn't been easy (and nothing that's worth your time ever is) but so far I'm still enjoying every second of the journey. When I began with the memorization part I was confronted with the fact that I've always approached learning languages by just engaging with it. Things like a "genitive case" meant very little to me, so it took me a bit to re-learn how languages work and translate all the grammar terms I remembered in Dutch to English. Other than that I had decided to order a physical copy of Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata and I am still so very happy that I did. I have it with me all the time so I can read it when I take the train or eat my lunch and I never expected the story to be genuinely entertaining.
I regularly start over from the beginning when it gets too complicated and I'm always pleasantly surprised by how much deeper my understanding of the text is than the last time I had read it. If you're more interested to hear about how it's influenced my everyday life, it's mostly that I began to notice just how many words I use everyday come from Latin and that it's been all around me all this time.
While reading has been nice, my favorite part of language learning has always been speaking and I feel that I'll soon want to start looking for communities and others who like to speak Latin. I've been sharing my journey and interesting insights with my friends In the hopes that one is excited and/or crazy enough to also dedicate some of their time to learn Latin with me. But for now I will take my time to finish my LLPSI book and I might just read the Latin translation of the Harry Potter books after that.
I hope that is a satisfying answer for now! Once again, wish me luck and I hope I will soon be able to use Latin in conversations!
I recall there's a video I watched of an old man in a care home who spends his time teaching Latin to other old people. And when the interviewer said 'It just seems too hard' he said something along the lines of 'Poor people, derelicts, prostitutes, anyone in Rome spoke Latin' and it helps me keep going knowing it's definitely possible
One of the easiest ways for English (and a lot of other European language) speakers to wrap our heads around noun case is to compare it to pronoun inflection, since we still have cases in pronouns. "I" is nominative, "me" is accusative, (+ dative and ablative,) "my" is genitive, etc.
Χαίρε Λουκά, μόλις αγόρασα τη μέθοδο σου και δεν έχω καμία αμφιβολία ότι θα με βοηθήσει πολύ να προοδεύσω. Φυσικά, θα συνεχίσω παράλληλα να μελετάω και από τη μέθοδο του Γουίλοκ. Salvē, amīcē.
Gaudeō! Grātiās
Mi scuso di non poter commentare in inglese. Purtroppo capisco l'inglese più di quanto non possa scriverlo. Vorrei solo fare i complimenti per l'eccellente presentazione. Quanto al trucco della memoria orale posso confermare che sia la cosa più utile anche nella mia esperienza: il recitare i paradigmi come una melodia mi è stato di grande aiuto non solo in latino ma anche (forse soprattutto) in ebraico (dato il ritmo più martellante delle lingue semìtiche).
Poi, come lo ricordano grandi specialisti dell'apprendimento (penso a Stanislas Dehaene), l'oralità ha un grandissimo posto nell'apprendimento di qualsiasi materia, a fortiori, nelle lingue: lo spiegare agli altri qualcosa in un dialogo costruttivo obbliga a fare nessi, a fare ordine e a meravigliarsi delle immagini che si creano dal fare i nessi e l'ordine: questi tre elementi sono i più efficaci per l'apprendimento. Chi ha partecipato ad una Yeshivah, ha letto Marcel Jousse o ha studiato con il metodo socratico lo sa bene: nell'oralità viene ricordato davvero tutto. Ed è proprio ciò che hanno capito i fautori del metodo "méthode assimil". L'ho provato con il portoghese ed è stato a dir poco efficacissimo! Proprio perché basato sull'oralità.
Infatti! Grazie per il commento.
Bought it. Thanks. Listening to it now. :)
Thanks for purchasing it!
Wow, my head's spinning a bit. I want to learn both latin and Greek, but there are only so many hours in the pandemic day.
you will need around five years to master one. so you have time
For me it's important to write both whole words and just the endings. And I apply it to all things. But for me the most effective way to learn a language is to listen, read, and do a bunch of exercises on a grammar topic and on vocabulary. I primarily use repetition for working with pronunciation while teaching myself, I primarily use repetition and communication in teaching students (however, I teach English). And there we repeat words and phrases to learn both grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation.
I don't know about you guys, but having a Gladius close to the neck and and all-nighter painting graffiti, did it for Brian.
Hi, i have a small improvement suggestion.
I am learning with this method for round about one month now, and i realised, that you need the deklination of 'sum' for learning the conjugation of the passive perfect, pluperfect and future perfect verb forms. So it makes sense to learn 'sum' first, and then the verbs.
Lots of love.
Yeah, I just got to verbs today and not doing sum first tripped me up.
Brilliant!
Merci beaucoup! I'm trying to get back into Latin after 25 years of not seriously studying it. I discovered it was very useful for English vocabulary (along with French) back in high school. Just bought your audiobooks. If this works, I'd like to get your Greek one as well. I'm going to learn Koine as well so I can read the New Testament in the original language.
Great Video! This method of learning reminds me of Heinrich Schliemann's way of acquiring ancient Greek in his book Ilios. He only memorized noun declensions and verb conjugations while absorbing grammar by memorizing prose sections. Is there a Lingua Latina equivalent for ancient Greek?
Hello, sir. The closest to that would be either "Athenaze" or "Aléxandros: To Hellenikon Paidíon". Or, you could try Assimil's French or Italian Ancient Greek course.
Schliemann was a genius when it came to naturally acquiring a Language through constant reading and immersion, in an age before RUclips or the language learning materials we have today. He is solely remembered, typically, for discovering the apparent site of Troy and of Mycenae. However, not many know that he was a gifted polyglot with an innovative method for his time. He also, by the way, learned Modern Greek before going into Ancient, and believed in pronouncing Classical Greek with a modern pronunciation.
research of memory has taught us that studying is two things when best used together: spaced repetition and active recall. It would seem that the most effective variation of the Ranieri-Dowling Method would be to take each repetition and apply spaced repetition and active recall to it. Has anyone done this in Latin or other romance languages? What was the size of a logical chunk of information (one repetition unit or larger or smaller). How did it work out?
P.s. bulk Input is probably still key to pronounciation.
i've never bought an audiobook book my life but this...this is something worth investing in, thank you! i will be purchasing both latin and greek, exams are just around the corner 😂
Wow! Thanks so much! Best of luck on your exams
@@polyMATHY_Luke thanks 😁 i have one question, i asked my friend to buy it for me since she has PayPal, will she be able to send it to me (sry but I dont know how audiobook purchases work 😅)
Yes! She will
An old friend of my dad once told me, 'The only way to learn Latin (well), is with your bottom' by which he meant sitting in front of one's grammar books and brute-forcing the declensions into one's brain.
He was right.
Amicus senex patris mei olim dixit *me in studio linguae latinae maxime regione clunium utendum esse* quia grammatica latina tota solum vī permagnā discipulo prae libris sedente studianteque in mente accipi potest.
Sententia sua vera fuit!
Yeah but dont forget a good studying book with easy stories to learn more words.
This video made me understand the "Dative Case" in Russian, thanks a lot!
Thank you for this! I am planning to use this method as my reading abilities are greatly hindered by not having fully mastered all forms. Question: do you find it important to label the charts as you write them? Or fill them out in a certain order (by column vs. by row)? I know a common struggle is knowing the forms but having to mentally go through the entire chart to find the correct form. Or does this issue disappear after so much repetition?
could you learn and do other ancient IE languages like Prussian, Gothic, Old English, Old Irish, Old Church Slavonic, Old Armenian, Old Norse, Hittite, Old Persian, Sanskrit, Tocharian, etc?
I would like to commend your use of apprehension. I recommend everyone to apprehend it and use it regularly in written form. With a bit of grist we can get the OED to change its classification from "obsolete" to "in current usage".
From the OED
Apprension
II. Mental.
4. gen. The action of learning, the laying hold or acquirement of knowledge. Obsolete.
"Repetitio mater memoriae."
It's working.
Thanks. The recipe to failure exactly describes how the book I am using works. It shuffles cases and declensions around and I have to summarize the tables on my own notebook. It also exclusively uses classical works as examples of sentences, so I only get to learn that incolae īnsulārum deae īram timent…
I mean cases and conjugations
Estne verbum 'gnavicula' gratias tibi sodalis!
I just bought the audiobook, and am (unsurprisingly) pleased with the quality of the audio and pronunciation. What I _really_ would have loved, though, is the option to choose between the two common paradigms. I have always learned the nouns (adjectives, pronouns) in the nom, voc, acc, gen, dat, abl paradigm. I am guessing that this is more common in areas influenced by Germany, as I notice this is the paradigm found in both my Norwegian and my Swedish grammar book. Would it be something you would consider, to re-record the 1st-5th declensions in this paradigm, allowing us the option to choose which paradigm to follow? I would happily pay a small premium to get those extra files. (A gold star would be appropriate, should you also reformat the spreadsheets to represent this.)
Actually, may I suggest that, if anyone wants to read something easier than ancient authors, but probably harder than Familia Romana or other modern Latin for didactic purposes, he can read those academic papers written in Latin by German scholars in the 19th and early twentieth centuries. They are written by competent classics scholars (indeed some of the best) in plain Latin (or sometimes not so plain) and discuss a lot of textual and linguistic problems. Personally I find them helpful in building a kind of language environment. Personally I already knew all those grammatical concepts before even starting, seeing that traditional, Latin based prescriptive school grammar is still mandatory in my part of the world, and I had no problem memorising those forms, but I struggled immensely trying to read real Latin. I didn’t know Familia Romana, so I first read the Vulgate Bible, then I stumbled upon those academic papers by accident and read them a bit, then I started to read real texts with commentaries. Eventually you will get there. Residing in Italy for a couple of years also helped. But I have always wondered how on earth those English children from the last century could all write brilliant Latin prose and verse compositions, whereas for us it takes forever, even if we major in classics (thereby reading Latin everyday) and are not considered unintelligent. The other day I came across some ‘Greek Versions’ by Etonians from the last century, and apparently a boy translated Swinburne into Sapphic stanzas, in her dialect. He cannot be that experienced a versifier if he was still attending Eton, right? It would be good to look into their ‘secret’.
Honestly, the main problem i see with latin as a language - at least how it is taught today - is the grammar. Not The grammar of the language itself - once you got used to it, it is pretty straight forward - but rather the grammar linguists have constructed around it. You have to learn like half a latin book before you can even start to understand the concept of what they want from in the actualy book about latin grammar. You learn ABOUT the language, not the language. That, in my opinion, is the worst flaw of teaching latin today. This grammar method basically encourages said "crossword translation" as he described, because it basically gives you so much ballast to think about instead of directly commecting the words to your native words. It's like trying to learn to drive.. but instead of getting into the car, you first learn the very stucture of the car and every screw and how it works, instead of only learning the bare MINIMUM that is actually needed to understand a sentence.
Grammar is useful - but not when you start learning a language. Most methods i see fail at the basic level, as they constantly try to connect their method to grammar, throwing around the vocabulary and concepts that most people aren ot only not familiar with, but straight up confuse them ontop of the new vocabulary of the latin sentence.
Grammar should come later, when you have a good grasp of the basics, when you have learned to talk in the language reasonably well. Grammar is the way to polish it up AFTER you have learned teh rough basic building.
Sure, I've taught that way as well. In this case, I recommend memorizing the full declension or paradigm once you've got through the corresponding LLPSI chapters.
In Germany, Latin as a school subject is essentially seen as a puzzle you are expected to break your head against. There is no thought that one could possibly understand a sentence of Caesar (and much less Cicero), simply by reading the text. From teaching using LLPSI for many years, I find that I can easily read most Latin texts directly from the page, possibly going back to get details on a particularly convoluted sentence... But motivating students to do this when they know that their Abitur only expects the former is really difficult.
@@markpolo97 Exactly.. you basically learn about the language... but not the language. Sadly this si the case with pretty much every language in school... That is the problem of the grammar method.
I agree. The best way to ensure people give up on learning any language is if you make them learn grammar and then mark them correct only if they recite it perfectly. Such methods make people fearful of using the language. There are far better ways to learn a language than to turn it into a memory competition, and that applies to Latin just as much as it does to any living language.
Oh boy I really do hope this can help me pass my Latin exam
fantástico
Very interesting ideas and, other than perhaps a few week's of time (I'm semi-retired so I can put in several hours a day) I've really got nothing to lose. I'm just starting on learning Latin and I can postpone the readin', writin', and talkin', for long enough to do some hard cramming on the grammar and conjugation, case, etc., as you suggest. It seems like a deviation from the natural or immersion methods but it certainly can't hurt; it sounds like more of a delay in those rather than replacing those methods and, perhaps, those methods will go better with the grammar lessons in front of them. I'm going to go for it.
One request, though. I've spent an hour or so looking at the LLPSI series on the publisher site and Amazon and there are so many books involved, all with covers and titles entirely in Latin (which we do not yet know) so it's hard to know which to buy. Can you do an article or video review/description of the exact books, study guides, exercise guides, and various other parts of the program that you're recommending, both for beginners, advanced-beginners, and intermediate students?
It looks like you already have that video I requested; I just found it and am watching it now.
A small thought about analogies for deponent verbs: I think English has a bit similar phenomenon but reversed. Latin deponent verbs have passive forms with active meaning. But some English verbs may take active forms with passive meaning. Consider two sentences like "We bake bread" vs "The bread is baking in the oven". In the second sentence it's clear that "the bread" isn't baking anything. It's the bread being baked, in the oven. Still the verb is in an active form.
Also, as a Russian native speaker, I can say that although deponent verbs technically don't exist in Russian as it doesn't have "voice" for verbs, they are amazingly easy to understand by analogy with Russian reflexive verbs, especially by analogy with those reflexive ones that don't have a non-reflexive pair (like there's "нравиться" = "to be liked" but no any "нравить" at all).
P.S. I understand that you don't want to make many connections to your native language while studying a foreign one. So consider it as just a curious observation :)
Thank you for sharing this it was extremely helpful. I'm buying your audios today. What is the music at the end of the video?
Hi Jackson! Thanks so much. It’s from my rendition of a song from Nightmare Before Christmas. For my other channel I’m working with others on the Latin versions of all the songs in the film:
ruclips.net/video/OPcy7u1eEmg/видео.html
Thanks for this contribution, it prompted me to start learning Latin, and I'm going with your/Dowling's method. I'm wondering, which kind of language as a background (e.g. being a native speaker) do you think is more advantageous for learning Latin? One that has a significant amount of common vocabulary, but quite different grammar concepts (like English, or, I suppose, Spanish or Italian), or one that has very little common vocabulary, but very similar grammar concepts (like Czech, which I'm a native speaker of)?
ruclips.net/video/2H5uBsR6_hs/видео.html
Holy molly.. You just gave me a "Masterkey" professor.. 18:30 in Polish language is the same.. "Nauczyciel daje książkę uczniowi.."regardless how you gonna set up the meaning is the same and no one would even say that you can't say it that way.. Amazing.. therefore for Polish person Latin should in theory be easy.. I'm doing great in Latin in duolingo app but this info is a game changer cause I didn't realised that untill now. Thnk you.
Glad it helps!
I believe the only way to learn Greek or Latin, or any language, is to use it actively. I spent 4 years on Latin and 3 years on Greek at university. My Latin and Greek never advanced beyond parsing sentences like I was building the model airplane... until I took Greek prose composition. I essentially had to re-learn all my conjugations and declensions because now it wasn't enough to just recognize them. I had to really know why I was using them. Those principle parts suddenly really mattered; again, I couldn't just rely on recognizing and recalling that a word was the perfect form of some word I learned before. Learning to actively use ancient Greek sucked at first, but by the end of the semester I could translate Lincoln's Gettysburg Address into Ancient Greek flawlessly. I could read Lysias, Xenophon, or the New Testament left-to-right like I can read French or English.
Of course, failure to practice means I've "lost" a lot of this - I know it's in my brain somewhere and could be teased out, but I can't just jump into Ancient Greek like I once could. But cramming grammar and actively using it is the only real way to learn Latin or Greek.
Sir, I am wondering where is the indicative future perfect in the audio of the 1st conjunction (amāre).
Excellent! I want to do this for Russian too. What book or resources would you use for Russian? You are a really good teacher. Bookmarking your videos extensively. Thank you.
I’m interested in learning as many Romance languages as I can, and I can already speak some Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese. my question is if I dedicated myself to one of those languages and learned it, would it help with learning latin? Or would you recommend learning Latin before anything else?
33:25, the introduction of deponent verbs. It has struck me that in English we say that ‘the baby was born’ and we often think of the action as having been done by the baby, not by the mother (no intended offense to mothers). Even if it isn’t precisely identical to a Latin deponent, perhaps it has some of the flavor?
By the trident of Neptune, this is a great video!
Thank you, by Jupiter! ;)
Thanks for watching, by Hercules!
I just realized that the spelling of Portuguese 3rd person plural conjugation
_-am_ (pronounced like -ão, [ɐ̃ʊ̯̃])... may have been influenced by Latin. Before a spelling reform it was spelled -ão, but then changed to -am.
I´m in possesion of LLPSI 1&2 since 2008. I think. But I´ve tried to read only the first four lessions, because then my life turns upside down, and I´ve forgot to learn further. Meanwhile I´ve learned Czech because of my girlfriend, and what shall I say - they´ve the same declension lists, but 7 (!) cases. I hope to took up studiing latin again
Great advice.
People say that LLPSI makes learning grammar tables unneessary. This is first of all wrong because I'm up to chapter 8 and already grammar tables are listed by LLPSI for hic, haec, hoc and its plural.
If you memorise the tables in advance then it makes reading LLPSI's text faster and easier. LLPSI is already difficult by Chapter 8 because of the many different cases you need to understand per sentence as well as new vocabulary. If you don't even know any grammar tables you're going to struggle even more (hoc? That's nominative. Wait a minute... hoc seems to be used as the ablative, but maybe I'm wrong; maybe it has a different use? But I know it's the nominative. God what do I do? Oh maybe it could be both? I don't know because I don't know any tables).
This is similar to memorising your multiplication tables so that you can focus on learning higher level maths like algebra rather than fumbling on the basics.
And I agree that traditional Latin textbooks are pretty dreadful because they bombard you with both nouns and verbs and it's too much to process. LLPSI focuses just on nouns from only the first two declensions by chapter 8 and even that's pretty damn hard when you're juggling masculin, feminin and neuter from different cases all in a single sentence.
Another advantage of memorising tables: you can pick up a Latin dictionary and can decline any noun you see as a way of practice. It's kinda fun to find random words and be able to decline them automatically.
Bellissimo, complimenti.
Sarebbe bello un video in cui venisse spiegata la pronuncia dei Brocardi giuridici. Il latino è molto utilizzato negli ambienti giuridici, ma la pronuncia è quella ecclesiastica. Mi piacerebbe, invece, sapere come Ulpiano pronunciava "alterum non laedere" e tutti gli altri Brocardi famosi.
Great video, I just paused it at 10:59, because I have a question regarding syntax. Isn't it "subject-verb (predicate)-object"?
I find that the case order nom, voc, acc, gen, dat, abl makes more sense for memorization because it puts like forms closer together. Also the nom, voc, and acc do not involve any prepositions in English, while the gen, dat, and abl do: e.g. of, to, by, etc. Case in point: rosa, rosa, rosam, rosae, rosae, rosa, rosae, rosae, rosas, rosarum, rosis, rosis vs rosa, rosae, rosae rosa, rosae, rosarum, rosis, rosas, rosas. Your thoughts?
I prefer the nom gen order because it creates spaces repetition en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition
Quick question (hopefully) to see if I have grasped the concept. Through learning all the paradigms, I would then look at a word and even if it is hitherto unknown by meaning I could know its function in the sentence and know how to modify it to fulfill its other functions as well? (hope that makes sense :D) I for some reason thought I needed to learn every latin noun verb etc. which seemed odd given the 2.5 hours of audio.
That’s exactly right, Michael! Once you know the patterns, you can recognise the function.
Hey, I'm interested in getting these materials. I was just curious, is this still the program/method you recommend the most? I have seen you are getting more popular (Congrats!), so I was wondering if maybe you have changed some things (Because I have seen other RUclipsrs remastering or even discarding some of their old tips, which is fine, one learns along the way).
Thanks
I still recommend all of this. Thanks for the comment.
Advice, I am in grad school so I'm passively studying Latin. I have limited time so let me tell you my Latin daily diet. I read LLPI once a day, Listen to Quomodo dicitur on my runs once a day, and go through the vocabulary of Ashdowne and Morwoods book "Writing Latin" once a day. Once I have memorize all the vocabulary in that book I am going to start translating the sentences from English to Latin in the book. So my question to anyone, would you do anything differently. Remember, I have a small budget of time but i want to make sure its impactful.
Hi! Yes, I would use my LLPSI playlist on my other channel ScorpioMartianus. Use Familia Romana all the time. And finish the book as quickly as you are able. Then you can move on to the rest of the LLPSI series. :)
@@polyMATHY_Luke So, I should reinforce my listening with what im reading even when I don't have the book in front of me? I guess, I would get more out of that than listening to Qumodo Dicatur which I admit is difficult for me even though I can the gist of it.
Sure! But you do have the book pages in front of you if you wish thanks to my videos, right?
@@polyMATHY_Luke Certe, and I do sit down and read a long. I also thought you meant I should be listening LLPI from your channel as I wash dishes, work around the house, or go on a run? Specifically the chapter I am working on?
@@polyMATHY_Luke Certe, and I do sit down and read a long. I also thought you meant I should be listening LLPI from your channel as I wash dishes, work around the house, or go on a run? Specifically the chapter I am working on?
For the deponent case, where you write passive, but mean active. Wouldn't this example be kind of like that?: "The turkey let itself be cooked by John"
I'm guessing he didn't mean that though.
Yeah I find what Dowling wrote there to be confusing as well, heh. I just left it as is; I didn't want to change his words.
I'm learning (both) Sanskrit (and French) and "at any cost I WANT to learn this language, so if I've to memorise all the noun declensions, adjective declensions, verb conjugations then I'm ready to do that. I will do everything to learn this language" if you have this mindset then learning a language (whether it's highly inflected or not) is not that difficult; but the sad part is most of the people lack this mindset.
Edit 1: 2 months ago I wrote the above comment but now (today's 9 June 2021) I'm learning Latin. I'm currently on the chapter 10 in the Lingva Latina: Familia Romana book.
@@vikasjangid9762
I don't know where you can find those tables but I want you to know that there are two types of declensional order, viz, the traditional order and the British order. I'd suggest you to use the British order, 'cause it's easier to memorise.
My two personal favourite (beginners') Latin books are Getting Started with Latin and Keep Going with Latin, both by William E. Linney, so I'd recommend those two. After finishing those two I'd suggest you to start reading Lingva Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana book, which is entirely in Latin and A Companion to Familia Romana, which explains everything in English.
@@vikasjangid9762
I finished fifteen chapters (out of thirty or thirty two) in Lingva Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana. So, I can read simple texts.
Other Latin learning books - Cambridge Latin Course, Oxford Latin Course, Reading Latin by Peter Jones and Keith Sidwell, Minimus by Barbara Bell and Ecce Romani by the Scottish School Classics Project.
Btw, reading your name it appears you are Indian (like me) and if you are an Indian then right now are you living in India or abroad ?
@@vikasjangid9762
I also live in India. I'm from West Bengal (not from Kolkata).
I understand but only simple sentences.
Are you learning Latin or Sanskrit or both ?
@@vikasjangid9762 Ohhh. Btw, what's your native language ?
@@vikasjangid9762 Okay. So, I guess you can understand Hindi. I'd suggest you two Sanskrit learning books, 1st. Sanskrit Swayam Shikshak by Shripad Damodar Satvalekar and 2nd. Teach Yourself Sanskrit part 1 Vakyavyavaharah by Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan.
I wish there was a Dowling method for German (aka a detailed step by step guide)
Hi! I purchased your audiobooks and wondered: is it best to copy all 5 tabs of nouns at a time then repeat (fits on 1 page for me)? Or should I say, copy the first one 10 times, then move to the next one? I’m at the frustrating phase where I don’t have all 10 forms memorized for any declension yet. Thanks!!
Thanks so much for purchasing my audiobook, Perryman! 😊 Sure, you can go any order you like that helps you learn them, but also keeps it from being too tedious. Good luck! Let me know how it goes. 👍
OK I made the purchase, and I'm more than happy with the audiolists. But there's one complaint: why did it have to be an excel file, of which I can't turn a page? It' s an absolute mystery to me, having to deal with excel. Happily there's plenty of lists on the web and the audios are beautiful. Finest art!