I shoot only 135, so I just number the rolls: YY-MM-DD_N_subject, where the date is the date I developed the film (because lot of the rolls have not been shot on one day), N is the number of the roll developed, and the subject is the majority subject on it. That is if there is one, which there often isn't... in which case I just write "misc" or "architecture" or whatever. Not the best system, but I came up with it when I started and stuck to it.
A system I think many photographers might like, is the newspaper morgue style of organisation. Each subject or event had it’s own file, with negatives, example prints, and other related data, like date, time, year, etc. a new story would have a new folder for that circumstance. Sometimes duplicate clippings would also be filed in each folder if each subject matter or person. Then that can be organised sequentially, alphabetically, chronologically, what have you. Best of all if you shoot mostly sheet, you can file them in 4x6 card files & folders, or 5x7. Or 8x10 folders in traditional filing cabinets.
I have the Printfile sleeves too. I write everything: - Film (HP5+, ColorPlus…) - ISO shot (if pulled or pushed) - If BW, developer used and time - Month and year - If color, the numbers aprox of filtration for positives. Also I have a paper where I write the frame with the time and color filtration if I printed it. - Finally, the number of the roll developed without considering if bw or color.
Only been doing this a few years, but I've found YYMMDD_### for sheet film and digital to work well. So the 12th image I shot today would be 230501_012. And YYMMDD_A## for rolls, so the 5th shot on the 3rd roll I shot today would be 230501_C05. This makes it super simple to put things in chronological order and for organizing scans on the computer as you can just sort by filename. When I find some images could be a project to work on, the negatives can be taken out of this main chronological archive into their own archive or always put back if the project didn't pan out. I love the idea of project codes, that could be something useful to add! I've found putting things like film stock or type in the name to be wasteful as negatives always have a notch code or rebate. Processing information is useful to keep, but that can get complex so should probably go in a notebook.
I use a modified variant of dpBestflow file management and organization practices for both film and digital. Organization and file management are considered separate disciplines. File management makes sure every shot and every derived file have unique, distinct names. Organization helps you find those files. Previously, I just used date+subject on the label of each PrintFile page with nothing noted on negatives. The file management scheme has a lot of advantages which will be apparent once you accidentally move files or directories inside other directories. It also supports multiple photographers working on one shoot. Each frame or file gets something like 'AA YYMMDD XX NNNN'. AA is the photorgrapher's initials or some other identifier. XX is a daily session number, or perhaps a roll number, and NNNN is the frame number. Shorten the frame number if it makes sense for your situation. PrintFile negative pages are tagged with the the first and last frame/file name. These are then bundled together into a folder or box which carries the appropriate "directory name", which will be something like 'YYMMDD XX Subject/Project/Event name FILM'. Ultimately, the 'YYMMDD XX' is your primary key, while the name part is descriptive. If your film is ever scanned, you'll continue with the dpBestflow naming conventions. If you are on the digital side, note that raw/source files generally have no suffix. Your master files have the 'M' suffix, and every other derived file has a different suffix of some sort. The *catalog* is responsible for organization, which could be anything from Capture One, Darkroom, Lightroom catalogs, a long-abandoned application that Just Works, some sort of digital asset management system, a quick and dirty Access or Filemaker database, or even a paper notebook. This is where you would have a long description of the project and other metadata. From there you should be able to search for a list of high-rated shots of bluejays sitting on fences in back yards, but not front yards. edit: and if that's too much work, hire an assistant
Thanks for the video - very helpful. I use a system close to a librarian’s (Dewey System); binders are grouped by subject manner, etc. It’s worked well in that I can easily find negatives (over 15K by now).
Awesome and HONEST video! I understand the pain LOL The system I've created works for an analog/hybrid. I make scanned contact sheets (scanning the negative sleeve) in lieu of doing traditional darkroom contacts. The issue I've incurred is knowing which frame(s) are keepers in my archives. So, the system I've created is 1) all negatives go into a corresponding annual binder (YYYY). 2) Every sleeve is labeled with 3-digits (ie 001). 3) When printing/scanning for individual frames, I go by the row of a particular sheet; 35mm (4-5 (row 4, frame 5), 120 or 4x5. So my hi-res scans are structured like 2018-391.4-6 (YYYY-Sheet.Row-Frame). When looking through LR, I know EXACTLY where my keeper frames in my 20+ year archive.
It used to be horribly time consuming, at least when shooting lots of 35mm and no computer or scanner. Now I just run the film through a scanner, or at least make a digital "contact sheet" and load it into LightRoom. Store the film organized by date in binders. Using a few keywords or at least date in LR makes it super easy to find any negative.
In computer databases, it is common to give each record (negative) a unique, usually sequential, index number. The index number is not meant to convey meaning, but only to identify the record unambiguously. Then one adds to each record fields that have meaningful data, e.g. date, project, subject, film type, etc. You use whatever fields are meaningful to you. Then in the future, you can search on the fields and return the index number or numbers of the record(s) that match. This is pretty analogous to an old fashioned library card catalog. There is only one book with a particular call number and name (in an ideal system) but there may be several cards in the catalog that refer to it, by author, subject, etc. This of course means you have to keep the database or card catalog updated, and label or store the negatives according to their index numbers.
artist studio, process, archive....nice to see. Had I remained in academia, 35mm slides would have been shown as well. I like seeing how artists change/evolve in their processes. I'm new to using analog photography as a means to an end. Thinking about cataloging analog images is relevant to what's happening with me. Very timely video!!
You are great as always! Thanks for being honest and funny, I agree, time spent in a topic is always a mater of personal choice. For me, it's simply ok to know the film is in a box, I'll find time later.... Kudos all
One thing I do is a have a spreadsheet of the day the roll was loaded, what camera, what film stock etc… pushing, notes, developer etc The big thing that I found handy was I bought a reel of the stickers film labs use to number my rolls, one goes on the film leader and the other on the can. For 120 I put the number on the film during loading in the tank.
That was interesting! I sort by format; 35mm, 120, 4x5 in their own boxes. The archival sleeves state: date; film; Developer; Location or project, camera, lens. Consecutive number I basically scan all negatives. Each film has its own folder. All folders are organized in "Excire Foto" and are automatically tagged there. In addition, I mark with my own keywords. best regards from switzerland
Interesting topic. My system was all over the place but a while ago I scanned all my negatives and at this opportunity I put them into new sleeves and folders. I named all my scans by scanning date + roll number + image number and I put the same numbers on the sleeves. Now my scans are my reference and I can tag and sort them as them as I like on the computer. I always have a reference to the sleeve encoded in the file name and as the sleeves are ordered by scanning date the images are easy to find.
I use binders marked with the year then section printfile sheets by film size and write a general description on the neg sheet. If I print the neg I’ll keep the test strip with printing notes and whatever prints I make with the negative.
My system is to label the rolls YYYYmmdd-A, with the date representing the date of development, and then each frame is named and numbered YYYYmmdd-A-N. Then if I develop two rolls that day the second roll is B and so on. Seems to work fine for creating a unique serial number of each frame. I scan each frame and label it with keywords and metadata in Lightroom, grouping the rolls into folders as appropriate. The negatives are all stored in pouches in 4-ring binders, chronologically. I have the binders lying on the side rather than standing to avoid the negatives bending, and I have a proper proof contact sheet for each roll. I haven't been writing on the actual negatives though, just the pouches. Or that's how they're stored when I'm not behind on filing, anyway. I always seem to be way behind on especially the contact sheets. And, of course, I have some old rolls that used a different system.
This made me feel better. I have several thousand negatives in 'print file' sheets. All formats. Only organization is by format which does not help much. I guess it is time to start a system. I shoot so much (like you said) that it is hard to slow down for organization.
For filmroll shooters.. I have (in general ;-) : Role name and/or map: " 2023-11-03 Subjectname" filename after scans: HP5id11girfriendsharp-07 (developer, rollbrand , optional subject, number on role)
The way I do it on the computer is Files: "Y-2023" > "01 (Jan)" > "Roll # - Film Format - Film Stock (Developer)" > Then each frame would be named "YY-MM-R#-##" which my scanner auto names. I then name my negative sleeves "YY-MM-R#".
I don't do projects, I just take pictures of stuff (which is probably a big issue in its own right), but it's given me way too many photos with pretty limited organization. I was trying to do year and date and the a roll number that went back to zero each year. But I gave up on that.
I have given up large format decades ago. So I shoot only roles. From Day One I settled on a simple scheme (someone must have taught me). All roles get sequentially numbered, prefixed by the year. Role one was 1996#001. The last role I shot was 2023#583. (I started twice from zero again ;-) ) So YYYY#NNN uniquely identifies a role; 2023#583/03 would identify the third complete frame in 2023#583. That's the basic scheme which gets cross-referenced in notebooks that I carry in the field, on my prints, and in LR (where I assign keywords). --- As to storage: I am a firm believer in the archival quality of glassine! I have seen negatives in glassine which were perfectly preserved over decades (sometimes 80 yrs or so). Also, as I lived in a humid climate for some years, I though that material that did some "breathing" would be the better bet. In the beginning I used transparent sleeves as you do, simply because they are so easy to contact. But I found that these become brittle over the years. Worse, depending on the product, they can trap humidity and can react with the chemicals in the neg. I understand that museum archives also prefer glassine or safe paper (those I have visited, do). I look fwd to your storage video.
Thank you. Now I know that I am not alone with a miserable ordering system for my negatives. And also not the only one messing it up and mixing up the numbers. ;) The only thing I am concerned about after watching this: why don't you shoot anything for your own purpose and joy anymore? That doesn't seem right.
I have to admit that I let my undeveloped films build up and then maybe once or twice a year have to try to remember when they were shot after a splurge of development.
I had mine all catalog by consecutive number in Google Picassa. Negatives in numerical order regardless of size. The neg holder had a number referenced in Picassa. Worked great until no more Picassa. More importantly is that really the sound of your sink in the intro or did you dub in a toilet flush?
I shoot only 135, so I just number the rolls: YY-MM-DD_N_subject, where the date is the date I developed the film (because lot of the rolls have not been shot on one day), N is the number of the roll developed, and the subject is the majority subject on it. That is if there is one, which there often isn't... in which case I just write "misc" or "architecture" or whatever. Not the best system, but I came up with it when I started and stuck to it.
A system I think many photographers might like, is the newspaper morgue style of organisation. Each subject or event had it’s own file, with negatives, example prints, and other related data, like date, time, year, etc. a new story would have a new folder for that circumstance. Sometimes duplicate clippings would also be filed in each folder if each subject matter or person.
Then that can be organised sequentially, alphabetically, chronologically, what have you. Best of all if you shoot mostly sheet, you can file them in 4x6 card files & folders, or 5x7. Or 8x10 folders in traditional filing cabinets.
I have the Printfile sleeves too. I write everything:
- Film (HP5+, ColorPlus…)
- ISO shot (if pulled or pushed)
- If BW, developer used and time
- Month and year
- If color, the numbers aprox of filtration for positives. Also I have a paper where I write the frame with the time and color filtration if I printed it.
- Finally, the number of the roll developed without considering if bw or color.
Only been doing this a few years, but I've found YYMMDD_### for sheet film and digital to work well. So the 12th image I shot today would be 230501_012. And YYMMDD_A## for rolls, so the 5th shot on the 3rd roll I shot today would be 230501_C05.
This makes it super simple to put things in chronological order and for organizing scans on the computer as you can just sort by filename.
When I find some images could be a project to work on, the negatives can be taken out of this main chronological archive into their own archive or always put back if the project didn't pan out. I love the idea of project codes, that could be something useful to add!
I've found putting things like film stock or type in the name to be wasteful as negatives always have a notch code or rebate. Processing information is useful to keep, but that can get complex so should probably go in a notebook.
This is essentially how I do it too. I also scan all my negatives, import them into Lightroom and tag them in that system.
I use a modified variant of dpBestflow file management and organization practices for both film and digital. Organization and file management are considered separate disciplines. File management makes sure every shot and every derived file have unique, distinct names. Organization helps you find those files. Previously, I just used date+subject on the label of each PrintFile page with nothing noted on negatives.
The file management scheme has a lot of advantages which will be apparent once you accidentally move files or directories inside other directories. It also supports multiple photographers working on one shoot. Each frame or file gets something like 'AA YYMMDD XX NNNN'. AA is the photorgrapher's initials or some other identifier. XX is a daily session number, or perhaps a roll number, and NNNN is the frame number. Shorten the frame number if it makes sense for your situation. PrintFile negative pages are tagged with the the first and last frame/file name. These are then bundled together into a folder or box which carries the appropriate "directory name", which will be something like 'YYMMDD XX Subject/Project/Event name FILM'. Ultimately, the 'YYMMDD XX' is your primary key, while the name part is descriptive. If your film is ever scanned, you'll continue with the dpBestflow naming conventions. If you are on the digital side, note that raw/source files generally have no suffix. Your master files have the 'M' suffix, and every other derived file has a different suffix of some sort.
The *catalog* is responsible for organization, which could be anything from Capture One, Darkroom, Lightroom catalogs, a long-abandoned application that Just Works, some sort of digital asset management system, a quick and dirty Access or Filemaker database, or even a paper notebook. This is where you would have a long description of the project and other metadata. From there you should be able to search for a list of high-rated shots of bluejays sitting on fences in back yards, but not front yards.
edit: and if that's too much work, hire an assistant
Thanks for the video - very helpful.
I use a system close to a librarian’s (Dewey System); binders are grouped by subject manner, etc. It’s worked well in that I can easily find negatives (over 15K by now).
Awesome and HONEST video! I understand the pain LOL The system I've created works for an analog/hybrid. I make scanned contact sheets (scanning the negative sleeve) in lieu of doing traditional darkroom contacts. The issue I've incurred is knowing which frame(s) are keepers in my archives. So, the system I've created is 1) all negatives go into a corresponding annual binder (YYYY). 2) Every sleeve is labeled with 3-digits (ie 001). 3) When printing/scanning for individual frames, I go by the row of a particular sheet; 35mm (4-5 (row 4, frame 5), 120 or 4x5. So my hi-res scans are structured like 2018-391.4-6 (YYYY-Sheet.Row-Frame). When looking through LR, I know EXACTLY where my keeper frames in my 20+ year archive.
It used to be horribly time consuming, at least when shooting lots of 35mm and no computer or scanner. Now I just run the film through a scanner, or at least make a digital "contact sheet" and load it into LightRoom. Store the film organized by date in binders. Using a few keywords or at least date in LR makes it super easy to find any negative.
In computer databases, it is common to give each record (negative) a unique, usually sequential, index number. The index number is not meant to convey meaning, but only to identify the record unambiguously. Then one adds to each record fields that have meaningful data, e.g. date, project, subject, film type, etc. You use whatever fields are meaningful to you. Then in the future, you can search on the fields and return the index number or numbers of the record(s) that match. This is pretty analogous to an old fashioned library card catalog. There is only one book with a particular call number and name (in an ideal system) but there may be several cards in the catalog that refer to it, by author, subject, etc. This of course means you have to keep the database or card catalog updated, and label or store the negatives according to their index numbers.
artist studio, process, archive....nice to see. Had I remained in academia, 35mm slides would have been shown as well. I like seeing how artists change/evolve in their processes. I'm new to using analog photography as a means to an end. Thinking about cataloging analog images is relevant to what's happening with me. Very timely video!!
You are great as always! Thanks for being honest and funny, I agree, time spent in a topic is always a mater of personal choice. For me, it's simply ok to know the film is in a box, I'll find time later.... Kudos all
One thing I do is a have a spreadsheet of the day the roll was loaded, what camera, what film stock etc… pushing, notes, developer etc
The big thing that I found handy was I bought a reel of the stickers film labs use to number my rolls, one goes on the film leader and the other on the can. For 120 I put the number on the film during loading in the tank.
That was interesting! I sort by format; 35mm, 120, 4x5 in their own boxes.
The archival sleeves state: date; film; Developer; Location or project, camera, lens. Consecutive number
I basically scan all negatives. Each film has its own folder. All folders are organized in "Excire Foto" and are automatically tagged there. In addition, I mark with my own keywords. best regards from switzerland
I have used several variations of systems, but a constant has always been to include dates. Worst case I can resort to a chronological order.
Interesting topic. My system was all over the place but a while ago I scanned all my negatives and at this opportunity I put them into new sleeves and folders. I named all my scans by scanning date + roll number + image number and I put the same numbers on the sleeves. Now my scans are my reference and I can tag and sort them as them as I like on the computer. I always have a reference to the sleeve encoded in the file name and as the sleeves are ordered by scanning date the images are easy to find.
I use binders marked with the year then section printfile sheets by film size and write a general description on the neg sheet. If I print the neg I’ll keep the test strip with printing notes and whatever prints I make with the negative.
My system is to label the rolls YYYYmmdd-A, with the date representing the date of development, and then each frame is named and numbered YYYYmmdd-A-N. Then if I develop two rolls that day the second roll is B and so on. Seems to work fine for creating a unique serial number of each frame. I scan each frame and label it with keywords and metadata in Lightroom, grouping the rolls into folders as appropriate. The negatives are all stored in pouches in 4-ring binders, chronologically. I have the binders lying on the side rather than standing to avoid the negatives bending, and I have a proper proof contact sheet for each roll. I haven't been writing on the actual negatives though, just the pouches. Or that's how they're stored when I'm not behind on filing, anyway. I always seem to be way behind on especially the contact sheets. And, of course, I have some old rolls that used a different system.
This made me feel better. I have several thousand negatives in 'print file' sheets. All formats. Only organization is by format which does not help much. I guess it is time to start a system. I shoot so much (like you said) that it is hard to slow down for organization.
For filmroll shooters..
I have (in general ;-) :
Role name and/or map: " 2023-11-03 Subjectname"
filename after scans: HP5id11girfriendsharp-07 (developer, rollbrand , optional subject, number on role)
The way I do it on the computer is Files: "Y-2023" > "01 (Jan)" > "Roll # - Film Format - Film Stock (Developer)" > Then each frame would be named "YY-MM-R#-##" which my scanner auto names. I then name my negative sleeves "YY-MM-R#".
I don't do projects, I just take pictures of stuff (which is probably a big issue in its own right), but it's given me way too many photos with pretty limited organization. I was trying to do year and date and the a roll number that went back to zero each year. But I gave up on that.
I have given up large format decades ago. So I shoot only roles. From Day One I settled on a simple scheme (someone must have taught me). All roles get sequentially numbered, prefixed by the year. Role one was 1996#001. The last role I shot was 2023#583. (I started twice from zero again ;-) ) So YYYY#NNN uniquely identifies a role; 2023#583/03 would identify the third complete frame in 2023#583. That's the basic scheme which gets cross-referenced in notebooks that I carry in the field, on my prints, and in LR (where I assign keywords). --- As to storage: I am a firm believer in the archival quality of glassine! I have seen negatives in glassine which were perfectly preserved over decades (sometimes 80 yrs or so). Also, as I lived in a humid climate for some years, I though that material that did some "breathing" would be the better bet. In the beginning I used transparent sleeves as you do, simply because they are so easy to contact. But I found that these become brittle over the years. Worse, depending on the product, they can trap humidity and can react with the chemicals in the neg. I understand that museum archives also prefer glassine or safe paper (those I have visited, do). I look fwd to your storage video.
Thank you. Now I know that I am not alone with a miserable ordering system for my negatives. And also not the only one messing it up and mixing up the numbers. ;) The only thing I am concerned about after watching this: why don't you shoot anything for your own purpose and joy anymore? That doesn't seem right.
Time
Thanks!
I have to admit that I let my undeveloped films build up and then maybe once or twice a year have to try to remember when they were shot after a splurge of development.
I had mine all catalog by consecutive number in Google Picassa. Negatives in numerical order regardless of size. The neg holder had a number referenced in Picassa. Worked great until no more Picassa. More importantly is that really the sound of your sink in the intro or did you dub in a toilet flush?
Camera shake is making me ill… please don’t do that again… (hurk…)