You are making it more complicated than needed. I start by roughly aligning Polaris to where it should be in the polar scope. Then I pivot RA to 90°. When prompted to rotate 90°, I return to the park position. I NEVER restart. I do it all in one go. It takes 2 minutes.
I agree with you. I have since found it easier to work with sharpcap‘s methodology. Although I will say that since my primary mounts have polemasters installed I use those much more frequently. Beyond that on my other system, I prefer to use in NINAs three-point polar alignment as it gives me more flexibility to move away from Polaris which is not always visible from my portable set up. But this is a very valid point you make here.
@@PatriotAstro Hehe! I practiced all of them starting with drift alignment, then PHD2, then Sharpcap getting down from an almost 1 hour to 20-25 mins to 10-15min. Still, the last one was quite jumpy (much the same like you show) and never helped me achive a "perfect" PA and graphs from phd were not so perfect. I'll give it a try to Polemaster, not because of the time needed, but because of the accuracy given by the fps of the camera.
Hey Chad. I've been using SharpCap Pro for about a year for PA. I love it, and like you, I usually stop when I'm within 15-25 arc-secs for PAE. I've never noticed the reversal of instructions (left/right/up/down) that you mentioned. I also only look at the instructions to move left/right or up/down. i could easily do without the actual image. When it's told me to go right... I use the right hand azimuth knob. When it's said go down I use the altitude knob in front to bring down the altitude. The biggest difference between what I've been doing and what you showed is that I use the motors to slew the scope and leave the clutches engaged throughout the procedure. Yes, it takes a few more seconds to slew 90 degrees I'd but rather do that than get out of my chair an extra time. Also, I usually start at the home/straight up orientation and then rotate 90 CW or CCW. One iteration is all I usually do. Every once in a while I'll stop at the 90 CW/CCW location and then restart and home the mount to double check my PAE.
Good points. I think it was all about how I was rotating several times throughout the process from an up/down orientation to a horizontal orientation. I most likely would use other tools anyway since I have a polemaster on that scope, and then Nina lets me point anywhere in the sky without Polaris being required. I probably won’t use sharpcap a lot for this, but it did work extremely well and I would recommend to others.
One thing as an advice. Wait for solving before moving the knobs again. In other words, turn one knob, wait for solving, turn a knob, wait for solving, much easier and quicker.
Really good video! I have the IEQ45 Pro and you mentioned that your adjustments are difficult due to sticking. You may have already done this since you made this video, but clean your threads. That alone allowed me to easily make adjustments and have not had any issues turning these since doing two years ago.
I find that doing the polar alignment easier with Sharpcap than using the Polemaster software, even using the Polemaster camera. With regard to the Left/Right-Up/Down, rotating the RA axis to the West the alignment orientation will be in sync with your adjustment knobs. When it says right, you tighten the right knob... etc. Putting some lubricant on your screw threads is also helpful. TO really fine tune you want to turn both knobs in sync to minimize the motion of the adjustments. Lastly, if your Right/Left number is high your best to physically re-adjust your tripod position to bring the numbers down for a quicker alignment.
Thanks for your last, I was not having easy getting as successful as you were so I got an Polemaster for my AZGTi with the ADM adapter $55 for a Vixen rail so I can use it on any scope & rail. I would think Sharpcap can be more accurate then the Polemaster? When I email an QHY Polemaster engineer he wrote me this "Because we set up a process of multiple confirmations in order to confirm the accuracy of the target. You can test the accuracy of the polar axis by following the steps below. Blind heel is used (ra and DEC corrections are turned off at the same time), and the drift curve of RA and DEC is recorded through the guide mirror. The drift curve of DEC represents the accuracy of the polar axis alignment. Calculated as follows: Alignment accuracy = 6 (hours) * drift amount per hour For example, if the drift in 1 hour is 3 arc seconds, the alignment accuracy is 18 arc seconds".
I agree and personally I still prefer the Polemaster to any of the others I have covered so far. Whether one is more accurate than the other, for me, I'm not sure it matters. They are all so close and I do use PHD2 as well so my guiding is great no matter which mechanism I use. Again... I still prefer the Polemaster just because it is so easy to dial it in very quickly as opposed to a bunch of back and forth, etc.
Chad, one thing I might add, for comparison reasons, probably better if the RA was slewed versus releasing the clutch and moved 90 degrees. The clutch when tighten after moving 90 degrees could produce error as the tolerances.in the clutch are nowhere near that of say a bearing therefore the position will probably change . It might be you could have better results with sharp cap if just slewing 90 degrees. That's really knit picking though, lots of people say you actually are better off with some error in PA so the star tracking is more to one side of the gears than the other, same with slight balance shift. I'm actually curious to see if this is all true. Any interest to you to experimenting with guiding accuracy with perfect PA to not? Would be really cool and beneficial to know if being strict on PA is even nessesary when guiding on 2 axis. Obviously, if guiding on 1 axis, perfect PA is probably best, but is the the case for 2? 🤔 Thoughts?
I did think about a video topic like that but it’s most likely not going to happen. When I was trying to come up with a workflow the reality was it was always really difficult to truly prove that you had a perfect polar alignment In the first place not to mention there’s so many other variables to cause problems such as seeing conditions. The one somewhat related video I probably will do in the space is related to leveling versus not leveling your mount and it’s effect on imaging and guiding. Going back to the clutch comment, I’m going to have to think about that one. I’m not sure the clutch would introduce any errors or issues. If you think about it, the clutch must always be fully engaged or your gears would never grab and move you. So, if my clutch was introducing error, I would have much bigger problems all the time. Hmmmm…
@@PatriotAstro that's for the reply buddy! I look forward to more investigative videos regarding PA and guiding accuracy. I guess it depends on the mount which we didn't get into for obvious reasons, so we are both right. Example, as of yesterday I started my hyper tune on my EQ6R pro, and in this case, the warm gear hub itself is also the clutch which is centered on the shaft, this is a good design. So for this mount, you are right . I have seen cheaper light weight mount that are not designed this was and will probably have error based on design or by simple mount movement just be releasing the clutch to rotate, so I just slew and can do this easy by hand controller or in my case, 2 custom saved home positions so I have consistent results with softwares used. You getting any rain/wind from the hurricane?
@@billblanshan3021 Good point. No rain yet, but I think it’s going to go south of me anyway. Just enough rain, clouds, and wind to make imaging impossible for the next several days. :(
Thanks for the video. Can the rotation in AR be done by hand or is it better to do it by checking with a bubble level that the axis of the counterweights is horizontal?
Could technically be either but it may depend on your focal length since Sharcap has built in solving for only a portion of the night sky around polaris and expects shorter FL. So likely guide-cam with this method.
Thanks for showing this. This just might be me and my setup. But I have been unable to use my OTA for alignment Explorer Scientific 152ED w/ ZWO 2600. Cant find enough stars. I'm have to use my 80mm Guidescope. I noticed that you manually rotated your scope the 90 degree's. I myself find it easier to use my controller (EQMod) to rotate the 90 degrees, than do the adjustments. Than I run the sequence again going the opposite direction as you did. Have you thought about using your software to do the rotation? Makes it easier to ensure i'm back at the home position. Than again it may depend on the mount used. My main mount I use is a SW EQ8-R Pro.
I think the Sharpcap PA problem is that it uses its internal PlateSolver for the PA process. It has an extremely limited database that only includes stars visible in the 200mm-400mm scope range and only around Polaris (5 or so degrees away at a maximum). At a long focal length, it probably won’t work. I’ve been trying to see if you can use an external plate solver but haven’t sorted that out yet. Otherwise you are stuck using another method or a guide cam. On the other topic of moving the telescope during alignment, I actually do it both ways. It can be easier to use the controller rather than loosening the clutches and doing it manually. I absolutely agree. Sometimes it just comes down to what’s currently connected already, and how I’m set up physically to get to equipment. :)
Very informative video!! I am yet to start using SharpCap Pro to do PA, but I have a question. When I set up on my balcony, I have an uninterrupted view to the north, so I can see Polaris no problems... but either side, by about 40° in each direction, I have no sky view. My question is... Do you need to rotate the RA 90° or will a smaller angle suffice in getting the PA correct? Thanks Rick
I've been way behind in my replies - sorry! Have you tried this yet. I am pretty sure Sharpcap 'wants' 90 degree rotation to function and complains if it doesn't get it.
@@PatriotAstro Hi Chad, No I haven't tried it yet. I was hoping someone would know before I purchase the Pro version, to see if it is worth the upgrade!
It’s very similar in concept to what you see in my polemaster polar alignment video. They are trying to determine where we are pointing through a combination of platesolving and right ascension rotation. And then the adjustments are just to fine-tune your right ascension axis pointing location.
@@siegfriednoet I’m sorry this wasn’t clear, no, sharpcap expects your camera/pointing to be within 5-6° of Polaris while performing this. I do have two other mechanisms coming up soon that do not require Polaris. Stay tuned.
Just FYI, I published the new Polar Alignment video a couple minutes ago - This one uses PHD2 and DOES NOT REQUIRE a view of Polaris. :) I hope it helps!
It’s actually the other way around. What is important is the mount’s axis alignment such that it can move only a single motor rather than 2. The physical mount axis is what is to be aligned via polar alignment.
You are making it more complicated than needed. I start by roughly aligning Polaris to where it should be in the polar scope. Then I pivot RA to 90°. When prompted to rotate 90°, I return to the park position. I NEVER restart. I do it all in one go. It takes 2 minutes.
I agree with you. I have since found it easier to work with sharpcap‘s methodology. Although I will say that since my primary mounts have polemasters installed I use those much more frequently. Beyond that on my other system, I prefer to use in NINAs three-point polar alignment as it gives me more flexibility to move away from Polaris which is not always visible from my portable set up. But this is a very valid point you make here.
Thanks, you just make me decide that I want a PoleMaster 😀
Ha Ha! I will say that all of the PA methods I covered do get easier with experience. Even the more challenging and time consuming ones. :)
@@PatriotAstro Hehe! I practiced all of them starting with drift alignment, then PHD2, then Sharpcap getting down from an almost 1 hour to 20-25 mins to 10-15min. Still, the last one was quite jumpy (much the same like you show) and never helped me achive a "perfect" PA and graphs from phd were not so perfect. I'll give it a try to Polemaster, not because of the time needed, but because of the accuracy given by the fps of the camera.
@@retiche Makes perfect sense! Let me know how it goes.
Hey Chad. I've been using SharpCap Pro for about a year for PA. I love it, and like you, I usually stop when I'm within 15-25 arc-secs for PAE. I've never noticed the reversal of instructions (left/right/up/down) that you mentioned. I also only look at the instructions to move left/right or up/down. i could easily do without the actual image. When it's told me to go right... I use the right hand azimuth knob. When it's said go down I use the altitude knob in front to bring down the altitude. The biggest difference between what I've been doing and what you showed is that I use the motors to slew the scope and leave the clutches engaged throughout the procedure. Yes, it takes a few more seconds to slew 90 degrees I'd but rather do that than get out of my chair an extra time. Also, I usually start at the home/straight up orientation and then rotate 90 CW or CCW. One iteration is all I usually do. Every once in a while I'll stop at the 90 CW/CCW location and then restart and home the mount to double check my PAE.
Good points. I think it was all about how I was rotating several times throughout the process from an up/down orientation to a horizontal orientation. I most likely would use other tools anyway since I have a polemaster on that scope, and then Nina lets me point anywhere in the sky without Polaris being required. I probably won’t use sharpcap a lot for this, but it did work extremely well and I would recommend to others.
One thing as an advice. Wait for solving before moving the knobs again. In other words, turn one knob, wait for solving, turn a knob, wait for solving, much easier and quicker.
You are much more patient than I am. You are also 100% correct. :-)
@@PatriotAstro Just wanted to mention it. I do Tips and tricks videoes for Astrophotography aswell. :-)
Really good video! I have the IEQ45 Pro and you mentioned that your adjustments are difficult due to sticking. You may have already done this since you made this video, but clean your threads. That alone allowed me to easily make adjustments and have not had any issues turning these since doing two years ago.
Yep, it’s happening soon! Cold weather is making it worse…
I find that doing the polar alignment easier with Sharpcap than using the Polemaster software, even using the Polemaster camera. With regard to the Left/Right-Up/Down, rotating the RA axis to the West the alignment orientation will be in sync with your adjustment knobs. When it says right, you tighten the right knob... etc. Putting some lubricant on your screw threads is also helpful. TO really fine tune you want to turn both knobs in sync to minimize the motion of the adjustments. Lastly, if your Right/Left number is high your best to physically re-adjust your tripod position to bring the numbers down for a quicker alignment.
That all makes sense. Lubricating the adjustment screws on my mounts across the board is on the shortlist too. :-)
Thanks for your last, I was not having easy getting as successful as you were so I got an Polemaster for my AZGTi with the ADM adapter $55 for a Vixen rail so I can use it on any scope & rail. I would think Sharpcap can be more accurate then the Polemaster? When I email an QHY Polemaster engineer he wrote me this "Because we set up a process of multiple confirmations in order to confirm the accuracy of the target.
You can test the accuracy of the polar axis by following the steps below.
Blind heel is used (ra and DEC corrections are turned off at the same time), and the drift curve of RA and DEC is recorded through the guide mirror. The drift curve of DEC represents the accuracy of the polar axis alignment. Calculated as follows:
Alignment accuracy = 6 (hours) * drift amount per hour
For example, if the drift in 1 hour is 3 arc seconds, the alignment accuracy is 18 arc seconds".
I agree and personally I still prefer the Polemaster to any of the others I have covered so far. Whether one is more accurate than the other, for me, I'm not sure it matters. They are all so close and I do use PHD2 as well so my guiding is great no matter which mechanism I use. Again... I still prefer the Polemaster just because it is so easy to dial it in very quickly as opposed to a bunch of back and forth, etc.
Chad, one thing I might add, for comparison reasons, probably better if the RA was slewed versus releasing the clutch and moved 90 degrees. The clutch when tighten after moving 90 degrees could produce error as the tolerances.in the clutch are nowhere near that of say a bearing therefore the position will probably change . It might be you could have better results with sharp cap if just slewing 90 degrees. That's really knit picking though, lots of people say you actually are better off with some error in PA so the star tracking is more to one side of the gears than the other, same with slight balance shift. I'm actually curious to see if this is all true. Any interest to you to experimenting with guiding accuracy with perfect PA to not? Would be really cool and beneficial to know if being strict on PA is even nessesary when guiding on 2 axis. Obviously, if guiding on 1 axis, perfect PA is probably best, but is the the case for 2? 🤔 Thoughts?
I did think about a video topic like that but it’s most likely not going to happen. When I was trying to come up with a workflow the reality was it was always really difficult to truly prove that you had a perfect polar alignment In the first place not to mention there’s so many other variables to cause problems such as seeing conditions. The one somewhat related video I probably will do in the space is related to leveling versus not leveling your mount and it’s effect on imaging and guiding. Going back to the clutch comment, I’m going to have to think about that one. I’m not sure the clutch would introduce any errors or issues. If you think about it, the clutch must always be fully engaged or your gears would never grab and move you. So, if my clutch was introducing error, I would have much bigger problems all the time. Hmmmm…
@@PatriotAstro that's for the reply buddy! I look forward to more investigative videos regarding PA and guiding accuracy.
I guess it depends on the mount which we didn't get into for obvious reasons, so we are both right. Example, as of yesterday I started my hyper tune on my EQ6R pro, and in this case, the warm gear hub itself is also the clutch which is centered on the shaft, this is a good design. So for this mount, you are right . I have seen cheaper light weight mount that are not designed this was and will probably have error based on design or by simple mount movement just be releasing the clutch to rotate, so I just slew and can do this easy by hand controller or in my case, 2 custom saved home positions so I have consistent results with softwares used.
You getting any rain/wind from the hurricane?
@@billblanshan3021 Good point. No rain yet, but I think it’s going to go south of me anyway. Just enough rain, clouds, and wind to make imaging impossible for the next several days. :(
Thanks for the video. Can the rotation in AR be done by hand or is it better to do it by checking with a bubble level that the axis of the counterweights is horizontal?
My tube have big focal length (1800) and doesn’t work
Which focal I must buy for PA ?
Thank you
Is this your guide camera or main camera? Cheers
Could technically be either but it may depend on your focal length since Sharcap has built in solving for only a portion of the night sky around polaris and expects shorter FL. So likely guide-cam with this method.
Thanks for showing this. This just might be me and my setup. But I have been unable to use my OTA for alignment Explorer Scientific 152ED w/ ZWO 2600. Cant find enough stars. I'm have to use my 80mm Guidescope. I noticed that you manually rotated your scope the 90 degree's. I myself find it easier to use my controller (EQMod) to rotate the 90 degrees, than do the adjustments. Than I run the sequence again going the opposite direction as you did. Have you thought about using your software to do the rotation? Makes it easier to ensure i'm back at the home position. Than again it may depend on the mount used. My main mount I use is a SW EQ8-R Pro.
I think the Sharpcap PA problem is that it uses its internal PlateSolver for the PA process. It has an extremely limited database that only includes stars visible in the 200mm-400mm scope range and only around Polaris (5 or so degrees away at a maximum). At a long focal length, it probably won’t work. I’ve been trying to see if you can use an external plate solver but haven’t sorted that out yet. Otherwise you are stuck using another method or a guide cam. On the other topic of moving the telescope during alignment, I actually do it both ways. It can be easier to use the controller rather than loosening the clutches and doing it manually. I absolutely agree. Sometimes it just comes down to what’s currently connected already, and how I’m set up physically to get to equipment. :)
Very informative video!! I am yet to start using SharpCap Pro to do PA, but I have a question. When I set up on my balcony, I have an uninterrupted view to the north, so I can see Polaris no problems... but either side, by about 40° in each direction, I have no sky view.
My question is... Do you need to rotate the RA 90° or will a smaller angle suffice in getting the PA correct?
Thanks
Rick
I've been way behind in my replies - sorry! Have you tried this yet. I am pretty sure Sharpcap 'wants' 90 degree rotation to function and complains if it doesn't get it.
@@PatriotAstro Hi Chad, No I haven't tried it yet. I was hoping someone would know before I purchase the Pro version, to see if it is worth the upgrade!
Can u use this to PA with just a DSLR and tracker?
You should be able to, yes... as long as sharpcap can see your camera. Did you try it yet... I'm way behind on responses here... sorry!
Great video again Chad, very interesting
For Sharpcap, should you be pointed at the north star, because it uses plate solving ?
It’s very similar in concept to what you see in my polemaster polar alignment video. They are trying to determine where we are pointing through a combination of platesolving and right ascension rotation. And then the adjustments are just to fine-tune your right ascension axis pointing location.
@@PatriotAstro So normally it would work without seeing Polaris ?
@@siegfriednoet I’m sorry this wasn’t clear, no, sharpcap expects your camera/pointing to be within 5-6° of Polaris while performing this. I do have two other mechanisms coming up soon that do not require Polaris. Stay tuned.
@@PatriotAstro Thank you for the answer, looking forward on how to polar align without Polaris
Just FYI, I published the new Polar Alignment video a couple minutes ago - This one uses PHD2 and DOES NOT REQUIRE a view of Polaris. :) I hope it helps!
sharp cap would have been better as its working off what your scope sees and polemaster is only your mount
It’s actually the other way around. What is important is the mount’s axis alignment such that it can move only a single motor rather than 2. The physical mount axis is what is to be aligned via polar alignment.