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Thank you for doing reviews even if they are negative! Darko and the Audiophiliac have at times argued against doing negative reviews, but obviously (to me at least) reviews like this are illuminating and helpful for everyone. Keep up the good work!
Today is my son's birthday and I'm listening to him right now jamming out with his new Kilipsch Sevens, WiiM mini and SMSL SU-1 set up he got at breakfast this morning. He's 2 floors below me and it still sound F'ing amazing. He's listening to Rush 2112.
I'm new to all this and have been looking at smart powered speakers as a soundbar replacement for my budding home theater (mostly Klipsch Fives/Sevens and KEF LSX II). When considering stands and such I realized how many wires I'd end up having to manage outside the TV stand, and compared that to just speaker wires. Learning about the Wiim amp changed things, and yesterday I pulled the trigger on the amp and a pair of tower speakers. When I'm ready to upgrade to a surround system (probably after I move in a few months), I can opt to keep the towers and put the Wiim to work with some bookshelves in the living room.
Agree with previous comments that there will be a market for future-fi, for those users who want something convenient, all-in-one, easy to set up, and decent sounding. Companies were building all-in-one stereo vinyl record systems with built-in speakers and receivers back in the 1960s (my parents had one). Systems like this PSB are ideal for a study, a workshop, kitchen, dining room, anywhere you want music but not the hassle of a complete hifi system. It's nice to have these options. That doesn't mean the hifi components market goes away. There will always be a market of people who willing to take the trouble (and spend the money) to get the best sound--which is actually a fairly small portion of the total market for audio gear.
I have had separate components for a long, long time, and see little to no reason to change. I like the flexibility of separates - if one part of the chain needs to be upgraded, that can easily be done. Having all this built into the speaker almost insures obsolescence at some point, and then what? You have to replace the whole thing.
They will only work as long as the app / software is supported and updated. Built in obsolescence on this kind of product. Love the channel and what you do 👍👍
I found the same thing years ago, with a Sonus Play 5 that I repaired. It did sound nice, but it refused to work with a generic Bluetooth connection, only with the Sonus app. Which is very frustrating, and does make me worry about if/when a company goes out of business, and/or the app stops working for whatever reason. (some apps absolutely need a connection to the company's server to work, so if the server goes down, the speaker can only be used with an audio cable. That's assuming it even has analog/digital direct inputs on it.)
@@electronash I have home automation products that I cannot use as the app will not work on a four-year-old phone. I am locked into a phone upgrade just to keep them working. I have learned my lesson and now realise that these products are designed to be throw away to increase the big corporation's profits high.
That is my fear as well, but so far, BluOS is still being developed and updated every few months. BluOS is a great ecosystem (for now) but will it still be around and updated/improved in 10 years?? That's the real question and only time will tell. What really needs to happen is that several of the larger hifi companies need to get together and develop an independent music streaming protocol/ecosystem that is open for any company to use with little to no licensing fees, like how bluetooth or wifi was developed. At that point, the fear of planned obsolescence would be less valid. It seems like that was sort of the goal of DTS PlayFi, it's just that the implementation of that ecosystem was so terrible that it never took off.
@@electronash Yep, that's been my experience with it as well, have a Klipsch Powergate integrated amp with DTS Play-Fi as well as a few DT speakers with it and they will sometimes work really well for a week or two, then all of a sudden stop working. Once they stop working, it's nearly impossible to get them to work again without doing a full factory reset. DTS does make a generic Play-Fi app and it seems to work better than the DT or Klipsch app, but still not great. Maybe the newer versions work better now? I haven't messed with that equipment in a few years as I went to BluOS/Roon and haven't looked back since.
I’m happy with my Kanto Tuk with Bluetooth. I only use Apple Music. Powered Speakers save me the purchase of a power amplifier. Which I can’t find space for my desktop system. I like the remote with tone controls. I love the sound of it’s aluminum driver that keeps the bass neutral sounding. Love your negative reviews! Keepin’ it real!
This is so awesome! From the first time I saw the teaser, I knew this would be a hoot! Then the video starts with Daniel Blair - hell yeah! Then, two of the most popular riders in the world have FUN on a dirt ike at a race track. Brilliant!!!
I fully agree with this review of "future-fi". I've had Bluesound equipment for a few years now and I like the interface. I have 3 Nodes to 3 separate systems in the house and a pair of Pulse Flexes in a stereo pair. The stereo pair sounds ok, not great, but the convienence factor is great. They live in my bedroom where I don't really need a great listening experience. I have the battery packs for them so I can have "ok" stereo sound outside, in the garage, in the bathroom (lol) and it syncs with my "good" systems conected to the Nodes. As a side note, the stereo pair functionality is pretty buggy in Bluos. A lot of times the app can't find them or it just deletes the pair. Several times I've thought of selling the lot and going the Wiim direction
I can see a couple of use cases for these, one is in a bedroom or den where you want to replace a soundbar but don't want to have a full rack of equipment like you would in your listening room or even living room. The other is for them to be the rear speakers in a BluOS surround sound system with other PSB speakers as the mains (running off of a Bluesound PowerNode or NAD integrated/surround receiver). As far as the EQ is concerned, you can add a completely customized EQ on these speakers in Roon but of course that requires a monthly/yearly charge and will only apply to streaming music through Roon and not the BluOS natively (so won't apply to the HDMI or other digital/analog inputs).
There is an obvious market niche that companies are not going after: < $500 stereo integrated amps with DSP room correction, with subwoofer out, set up for bi-amp. If those existed, people could just put drivers into glue together flatpack boxes. (These could even be set up to ship finished!) This would kill a lot of systems that are more expensive, which is why companies aren't doing this.
I just bought the Klipsch Nines on sale for $1200, and I love them. Awesome sound, and they can get loud. Next, I'm going to get an active subwoofer to go with them.
Thank you for calling a spade a spade. Not bashing Zreviews but I stopped watching his channel because everything was "The greatest!". If everything is great, then nothing is great, and what's the point of watching reviews. I know you don't want to bash products, but sometimes stuff just doesn't sound good, is not built well, or has no value proposition in relation to existing competition. All of those things need to be addressed and I find many reviewers afraid to say such, for fear of pissing off manufacturers and losing access, fear of thinking no one wants to watch a video of a product that doesn't get a recommend, if I negatively review it then no one will click affiliate links, any myriad of reasons. But there is value in all of that to the people watching the content, and those are the only people that you are really beholden to. Keep up the good work
Your experience may be different, however I’ve watched close to two dozen of Z’s videos and on more than one episode he’s found fault with a product. One I recall at the moment put four pairs of headphones against one another.
Before mid-fi stereo receivers had banana plug-ready (five way) binding posts, I grew frustrated with my incompetent speaker “twist the bare wire” capability, and switched my mains to “pro audio” powered monitors. Great sound from the Adam Audio bookshelf-sized beauties and I loved the “click in and play” XLR connectors. But boy was the combo of XLR and a power cord running to each monitor visually intrusive. I’ve since mastered banana plugs. Future-fi needs to take seriously the Yamaha experiment of making battery-powered surrounds. Ya know, the Schiit Syn outputting to a Bluetooth TRANSMITTER so we could use decent Bluetooth speakers as surrounds is an attractive thought.
On the pro side for PSB: these are very attractive speakers. I like that they’re experimenting with color. But you’re right: the WiiM Amp ushered in a new age, where you can pair any passive speaker you want with an ultra convenient and inexpensive little integrated amp / streamer. Set your own budget north of $400, hook up to virtually anything, and be done.
Another stellar review. Also enjoy the comments section. I'm curious though when we start comparing these to a WiiM amp and passive speakers. Of course passive speakers that cost more are going to sound better because you were able to put more money towards the "speaker" part of the system while saving on a cheaper amp/streamer. If you're putting these on a bookshelf, or a desk where you can properly hide the cable routing, sure that makes sense. In my particular case, I'm replacing Sonos that are in a a stereo pair that are on either side of a fire place and I don't want to see any cables (other than power that are hidden in stands). This use case for me is using Bluesound Pulse 2i (or Pulse M) or these baby's. Additionally, it needs to integrate with every other room and TV/Audio in the house for party's etc. This is where, I think anyway, I'm headed with Bluesound to replace my Sonos kit. Additionally, I had started down the Roon Nucleus path earlier in the year, so that's another integration point. It plays "ok" with my Sonos kit, but Sonos sometimes doesn't play well with its own kit, but likely due to older Play:1 and Play:3 in the system. The Move, Play:5, Roam don't seem to have the same problems (This points to another comment here about longevity).
It’s a talking streamer for only 85 bucks! The Echo (4th Gen), With premium sound, smart home hub, and Alexa. If you want good sounding background music, this is fine. When I want to listen to my favourite music I open my Mac Mini server and play familiar files I’ve downloaded.
I think there will always be a market for 'Swiss army knife' products in every industry. The convenience, as you said, and no-brainer implementation plug and play suits dome people, but tinker'ers will always need their itch scratched. So traditional kit will be around for a long, long time. Thank you for your observations and intro to this product. I personally don't like being forced to only have one option for anything. Be it control, sound shaping, or streaming. These are a pass for me.
What constitutes "standard kit" could change a bunch to absorb new tech, to the benefit of both average consumers and tinkerers. How about a system, where 2-way satellite speakers with no internal crossover plug directly into an integrated amp which has a digital crossover, sub out, and DSP correction? The cables could include a serial data line, so relays wouldn't let the signal into the speaker, without the right digital crossover setting. This could be powered by phantom power, and could be manufactured in bulk for less than most decent crossovers. It would protect the average consumer, while delivering much superior sound. Furthermore, companies could make a decent profit on those cables.
Main reason I bought some active speakers was because of the portability for when I don't wanna use my earbuds or small blue tooth speaker when I'm outside, especially if I have people over. Don't want to mount and run dedicated outdoor speakers, so they work perfectly for that. Now when inside, I much prefer my dedicated systems for music and movies.
I love these speakers have them in the computer room. They are inoffensive size and sound-wise. Wireless set up can take a while but once its done it's done that is until the cat stands on the play pause button and resets it. Best with a sub. Pricey, yes.
Those seem an updated version of the Paradigm Shift series which were great and ahead of their time. I have them in my office system and for their size and $, using my phone as pre amp/streamer, they sound great.
Fun, as always. Gotta say I just like those kind of speakers that you connect with 2 wires and they work. Took my bookshelf Boston Acoustics put them on stands, took 2 wires from my amp and connected them to the back of the speakers and music came out. Never touched my phone. My phone, really?
Well, they still sell the passive Alphas, which are an excellent speakers. Also, I passed up a Denon Dolby Atmos receiver yesterday that was on sale for $18! I am already trying to get rid of an older Onkyo receiver so uni I do... Perfectly happy with my STEREO ONLY Denon DRA-685.
For the critics of active/powered speakers in the comments: 1) the "fiddeling about" with those isn't done by swapping hardware components or cables. 2) Instead, you'd fine-tune the active/powered system to your liking by applying different EQ curves or swapping the sound signature files (if supported by the vendor like with Buchardt). And you'd probably measure your in-room sound as well, to get some good pointers on where changes might be good to try out. And as shown here by Randy not all powered speakers have those "tweaking knobs" built in. So there's a middle ground where even with a separates-based Hifi system you can both tweak the sound with hardware swaps as well as with software / EQ changes (e.g. if you have a Wiim device in that system). In the end it depends on everybody's preferences how they want to do it. I don't think any of those ways is better than the other.
I have the blusound node and I'm more than happy with the performance running through my Marantz AVR. I have way too many computers or devices within my house hogging WIFI bandwidth. Last thing I need is my music cutting out or my speakers not connecting. One of the biggest complaints I see on forums is wireless speakers poor sound quality and connectivity in comparison to passive speakers. Hard pass for me.
Future-fi is on to something when it comes to home theatre. Having five speakers or more that ONLY need a power cord because the TV communicates its sound wirelessly would fit my viewing habits. A separate 2 channel system for me would be imperative for critical music listening.
good review. I was thinking of a reply, but you kept hitting all the points. It (in theory) (maybe) is aimed at the noobie. with too much money. Get someone hooked on good quality sound, and the journey begins. Keep it simple for the noobs. maybe i'm a noob. Not a $1K powered speaker if it doesn't deliver the sound. I like your idea of the Wiim amp and a decent set of speakers. Noobs like simple though, and don't want a bunch of tiny chinese components wired together., dacs and stuff. They sort of want sonos simple. They (we?) will end up at crutchfield (hopefully/maybe), and can be steered in the right direction. let them/us buy something the wife likes, then start adding pieces, replacing pieces, etc. (you said that's the foible of the Wiim Amp, upgradeability?). We need something simple/cheap, that will knock our socks off (and the wife won't object too). Does anyone remember WAF? lol. Good review randy. keeping it real.
The new CerwinVega! Powered speakers are crystal clear with good bass and have a 10” woofer with 3 way design. They are priced very similar to these and the Klipsh. Not one RUclips review on them,
I have passive speakers and a Sonos amp. Increasingly I want to buy things that I can have repaired and will last. Next amplifier will probably be separate from a streamer and will be durable and not disposable. I may bite the bullet and buy McIntosh separates and have my children inherit them rather than the landfill.
Found some well priced towers. Paradigm 3000f.what are your thoughts? Maybe something to look into? I know you did the monitor atoms, but these are 3 way towers. Anyways, I love your honesty on the psb iq. You right audiophiles do like the inconvenience of choosing their equipment. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
Canadia =) I had a great talk with Paul about these on our way back from Axpona 2023. We ended up on the same flight back to Toronto =) ...The technology to make sure the timing between the speakers was a HUGE focus. Paul is not the type to do anything half-a**ed.
The more committed these devices are to software, the more I think you need to ask... Would you value a vintage piece of audio equipment if it required that you have a working Windows XP platform in order to use many of its features? Will any support at all or even a working operating system exist for the app in 20 years?
One of the advantages of BlueOS is it has an open API. The system can be controlled quite simply using standard HTTP commands. If for some reason the BlueOS apps were no longer available, the hardware could still be used with this API. I’m sure open source alternative control software would become available for those who don’t have the skills to do it themselves.
I've got a nice little desktop system that I run my computer into my mini streamer with a little subwoofer on it I spent like 700 bucks and I bet it sounds more than comparable to these speakers
These things keep getting better and better. I have a small pair of Dynaudio XEO 2's and I enjoy listening to them as much as I do my main system. I'm amazed at how good they sound. I think they will continue to gain popularity. Maybe not with audiophiles or tinkerers but with the average person that wants great sound without the clutter.
Because these PSB Speakers connect either Bluetooth or worse, WiFi, the quality is not going to be anywhere near as good as proper wired speakers, Not to mention the electronics are inside the enclosure, affecting the way the sound resonates inside the enclosure. The WiiM amp is brilliant. It is a lot higher quality sound than the amps in the PSB Alpha's are. I am sure the PSB Alpha's have their place, but most people would be better off to buy the WiiM and a set of reasonable book shelf speakers
Probable for the average consumer. But just like that have started making more films for cameras, they will always make DACs and amps for the people who appreciate the old. The better (beyone my budget - 5 figured) powered speakers match the amp to the tweeter and woofers used and each can be separately amped and sound very good. Looks like these will want a sub.
The Klipsch 5's, 7's, and 9's are all bi-amped like that too for much more affordable prices, I picked up the 5's about 18 months ago for just under $600 and they're pretty great for small to medium sized rooms. They are all "dumb" powered speakers though so you'll need a Wiim streamer or something like it if you want to stream (or you could just use your smart TV via HDMI if you don't care about high-res streaming).
I will bet this speaker will not work in the future due to software obsolescence. This will probably happen in less than 5 years (50% chance) and after 10 years (100%).
BlueOS has an API that allows full control through HTTP commands. Writing an alternative control program is relatively simple, and HTTP protocols aren’t going away anytime soon. Can’t speak for other systems, but I’m not worried about software obsolescence with BlueOS.
In my opinion, PSB powered speakers are overpriced. I purchased a pair of the alpha P5s for $280 on sale a few years ago for my desktop 2.1 system and I really like them. The power version is like $600 I agree that the ability to purchase products overtime in a separates system is very handy. I think that is my ultimate take away from this video. I have never really thought of that advantage before, but always done it that way.
For all but the audiophiles who do like the inconvenience, I think "future-fi" is the future - for many reasons, but a big one is that dsp is getting better and better. From sound bar innovation to the blade one meta and everything in between, the industry is pursuing a "do everything" speaker. Streaming music has also been a huge boon to the whole enterprise. If Samsung was smart they would come out with a sonos killer that comes with roon (which i believe also has dsp). There will always be a market for separates, but i think future-fi is the future for most people.
Just ordered a pair of Alpha IQ. With a sixty day return policy there is no reason not to have them to compare with my component system. If I like them as well or nearly as well I’ll sell the component system except for my turntable, which will likely be the only thing hooked up to the alphas. Simplicity is what I want. If I don’t like them, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
The issue of product longevity is much bigger than the comments made. I have been working in this industry as a consultant for 40 years. There are no loudspeakers older than 20 years old that sound like they did 15 years ago! New driver tech and class D predicts longer life, reductions in smoking at home in the house is practically unheard of, which prevents deep drive unit rot so I disagree. Modern equipment is also not hot glued together. Modern production techniques are engineered solutions, and china has thought us that. So folks get on it, it’s all changing for the much much better.
Curious if you would ever do a comparison of popular streamers in the same external DAC to see if any sonic differences are present in steamer processing, software app, jitter and digital output formats etc.?
It woulld be nice to hear Randy's comparison. I know there is a difference and I have my preference but would like someone to compare them and hear the difference in reviewers terms. The one I prefer some with a power filter and ethernet isolator. I am curious if these would make a Wiim sound as good (to me).
I'm currently testing a pair of PSB Alpha P3 speakers (the passive baby version). I thought they were pretty good when I first bought them, but I'm now using them on a decent DAC (the ES9018), and they sound really nice. The imaging / soundstage is very good on them. They have a fair amount of bass response, even though the version I have are tiny. But... I agree they are maybe a bit warm, and tbh, seem to have a "dip" in the frequency response. Although I haven't tried measuring the freq response yet, it's far more noticeable when switching back to other similar-sized speakers (like my B&W dm303). I haven't tried any of the newer / larger PSB speakers, though. My rear surrounds are currently a pair of "PSB Intro LR", which are even smaller. lol I would have no trouble recommending the smaller PSB speakers for more casual listening, or even for a lounge system. The passive ones are generally quite cheap, so they are great for the money, but maybe not what I'd call "High-end, on a budget". (I'm not sponsored by, nor represent PSB, btw. I just happen to be testing some of their small bookshelf speakers right now.) Oh, and one bonus point is, I'm sure some people immediately think PSB = Pet Shop Boys, which isn't a bad thing. lol
I got most of the DIY AV Receiver working, btw. ;) (I mentioned it on a live stream chat recently.) Specs so far... * 12 speaker outputs, using TPA3255 Class-D Power Amp modules * 4 independent Subwoofer preouts,with independent Delay / EQ / Room Correction. * Dolby Atmos and DTS-X decoding. Up to a 7.4.4 configuration. (plus one spare speaker output). * Decoding for TrueHD (sans Atmos), DTS-MA, and legacy DTS, Dolby 5.1, Dolby Surround etc. * Two 8-channel ESS DACs (currently testing the older ES9018, but will eventually be two ES9038Pro). * Fully Balanced / Differential, from the DACs, to the amps, and to the Volume/Preout board. * Balanced preouts via DB-25 connectors, for use with XLR Breakout cables to external power amps. * Three HDMI 2.0 inputs, with 4K60 passthrough and HDCP 2.2. * ARM SoC (Allwinner H616, for playing or streaming movies / music etc.), with WiFi and Bluetooth. * 1500 Watt 48V switching Power Supply for the power amp modules. * Five-inch LCD and Volume / Selection dial on the front panel. * Headphone amp TBA. Still a lot to do, to get more of it finished, but it's sounding *very* nice in Stereo so far.
This is exciting though, because: The Connex, The Fives, The Sevens, The Tannoy Gold 7’s, monoprice MM-5, Svs Prime Wireless (already at the point I wanna make). We are getting to powered speakers that will be fully capable of being their own systems. I just got a the CA AXR100 integrated amp which has a great phono preamp and streamer built in and then I’ve got some speakers to plug into it. The next step is creating the integrated powered speaker which will be able to provide great hifi quality. I know people that want great quality sound but don’t want to ‘get lost in the sauce’ and I think once elac and klipsch and emotiva bring out the full combos, it’ll be amazing for the industry and maybe even show people “well maybe I’m more of an audiophile than I thought”
I have a pair of these and they have been nothing but painful! The shop even gave me a second set to try. They have failed before even completing the set up and are now showing a solid red led - have been for 6 hours so at a guess they need to now go the a service agent. Save yourself the pain don’t buy them. I wish I never had.
If you have powered speakers, what do you do with your $10,000 speaker cable? I like swapping amps and speakers around like you do, and with powered speakers I can't do that.
I used to be an audiophile, but I found it was fixating on the audio quality as opposed to enjoying the music. I have gone for a high end pair of smart speakers that I stream to , it is very convenient and the sound is nearly as good as what i am used to.
These speakers are apparently not plug and play. More like plug and pray they connect to each other. The Fluance powered speakers are a much better alternative paired with a Wiim streamer. I have the older ai60s for my desktop and secondary TV room. They sound great! The newer ai61s and ai41s are even better with a multitude of inputs and outputs. You can get them for $250 and $210 respectively. The PSBs are way overpriced for what they provide.
Active speakers are ideal for a lot of people. First for people who don’t want to worry about synergy between different components, because the manufacturer of an active speaker already did that for you. Secondly many people live in small spaces and third many people have a preference for a minimalistic home without their living environment being dominated by separate components. They can be a perfect replacement for a soundbar with a TV and give you better sound for music than a soundbar. Even an integrated streaming amplifier adds an extra box, which can be a problem in for example a small bedroom. I suspect Randy doesn’t get the minimalistic approach interior when I see the room where he is making his videos in.
So, in summary, it feels like this is a good way to burn a grand+ for no reason other than to have a subpar sounding system that takes up 2 outlets. Hmmm... (inconvenient)... but tempting? NOPE!
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Thank you for doing reviews even if they are negative! Darko and the Audiophiliac have at times argued against doing negative reviews, but obviously (to me at least) reviews like this are illuminating and helpful for everyone. Keep up the good work!
Today is my son's birthday and I'm listening to him right now jamming out with his new Kilipsch Sevens, WiiM mini and SMSL SU-1 set up he got at breakfast this morning. He's 2 floors below me and it still sound F'ing amazing.
He's listening to Rush 2112.
I'm new to all this and have been looking at smart powered speakers as a soundbar replacement for my budding home theater (mostly Klipsch Fives/Sevens and KEF LSX II). When considering stands and such I realized how many wires I'd end up having to manage outside the TV stand, and compared that to just speaker wires.
Learning about the Wiim amp changed things, and yesterday I pulled the trigger on the amp and a pair of tower speakers. When I'm ready to upgrade to a surround system (probably after I move in a few months), I can opt to keep the towers and put the Wiim to work with some bookshelves in the living room.
Agree with previous comments that there will be a market for future-fi, for those users who want something convenient, all-in-one, easy to set up, and decent sounding. Companies were building all-in-one stereo vinyl record systems with built-in speakers and receivers back in the 1960s (my parents had one). Systems like this PSB are ideal for a study, a workshop, kitchen, dining room, anywhere you want music but not the hassle of a complete hifi system. It's nice to have these options. That doesn't mean the hifi components market goes away. There will always be a market of people who willing to take the trouble (and spend the money) to get the best sound--which is actually a fairly small portion of the total market for audio gear.
One huge plus for these is that the crossover can be active. It’s so much easier to do the crossover well with DSP than it is with passive components.
Missing a coaxial input. Most cd transports (bluray, dvd players, etc. only have one digital out and in most cases is coaxial output).
I have had separate components for a long, long time, and see little to no reason to change. I like the flexibility of separates - if one part of the chain needs to be upgraded, that can easily be done. Having all this built into the speaker almost insures obsolescence at some point, and then what? You have to replace the whole thing.
Been thinking a lot about this and decided to go for seperates. More flexibility indeed.
They will only work as long as the app / software is supported and updated. Built in obsolescence on this kind of product. Love the channel and what you do 👍👍
I found the same thing years ago, with a Sonus Play 5 that I repaired.
It did sound nice, but it refused to work with a generic Bluetooth connection, only with the Sonus app.
Which is very frustrating, and does make me worry about if/when a company goes out of business, and/or the app stops working for whatever reason.
(some apps absolutely need a connection to the company's server to work, so if the server goes down, the speaker can only be used with an audio cable. That's assuming it even has analog/digital direct inputs on it.)
@@electronash I have home automation products that I cannot use as the app will not work on a four-year-old phone. I am locked into a phone upgrade just to keep them working. I have learned my lesson and now realise that these products are designed to be throw away to increase the big corporation's profits high.
That is my fear as well, but so far, BluOS is still being developed and updated every few months. BluOS is a great ecosystem (for now) but will it still be around and updated/improved in 10 years?? That's the real question and only time will tell. What really needs to happen is that several of the larger hifi companies need to get together and develop an independent music streaming protocol/ecosystem that is open for any company to use with little to no licensing fees, like how bluetooth or wifi was developed. At that point, the fear of planned obsolescence would be less valid. It seems like that was sort of the goal of DTS PlayFi, it's just that the implementation of that ecosystem was so terrible that it never took off.
@@Corwin74 I have DTS PlayFi on my Anthem MRX-720 receiver.
Only, I can't tell if it works, as I could never get the app to connect. lol
@@electronash Yep, that's been my experience with it as well, have a Klipsch Powergate integrated amp with DTS Play-Fi as well as a few DT speakers with it and they will sometimes work really well for a week or two, then all of a sudden stop working. Once they stop working, it's nearly impossible to get them to work again without doing a full factory reset. DTS does make a generic Play-Fi app and it seems to work better than the DT or Klipsch app, but still not great. Maybe the newer versions work better now? I haven't messed with that equipment in a few years as I went to BluOS/Roon and haven't looked back since.
Thanks for your honesty in your review and helping us wade through the never-ending audio products available.
I’m happy with my Kanto Tuk with Bluetooth. I only use Apple Music.
Powered Speakers save me the purchase of a power amplifier. Which I can’t find space for my desktop system.
I like the remote with tone controls.
I love the sound of it’s aluminum driver that keeps the bass neutral sounding.
Love your negative reviews!
Keepin’ it real!
This is so awesome! From the first time I saw the teaser, I knew this would be a hoot! Then the video starts with Daniel Blair - hell yeah! Then, two of the most popular riders in the world have FUN on a dirt ike at a race track. Brilliant!!!
I fully agree with this review of "future-fi". I've had Bluesound equipment for a few years now and I like the interface. I have 3 Nodes to 3 separate systems in the house and a pair of Pulse Flexes in a stereo pair. The stereo pair sounds ok, not great, but the convienence factor is great. They live in my bedroom where I don't really need a great listening experience. I have the battery packs for them so I can have "ok" stereo sound outside, in the garage, in the bathroom (lol) and it syncs with my "good" systems conected to the Nodes. As a side note, the stereo pair functionality is pretty buggy in Bluos. A lot of times the app can't find them or it just deletes the pair. Several times I've thought of selling the lot and going the Wiim direction
I can see a couple of use cases for these, one is in a bedroom or den where you want to replace a soundbar but don't want to have a full rack of equipment like you would in your listening room or even living room. The other is for them to be the rear speakers in a BluOS surround sound system with other PSB speakers as the mains (running off of a Bluesound PowerNode or NAD integrated/surround receiver). As far as the EQ is concerned, you can add a completely customized EQ on these speakers in Roon but of course that requires a monthly/yearly charge and will only apply to streaming music through Roon and not the BluOS natively (so won't apply to the HDMI or other digital/analog inputs).
There is an obvious market niche that companies are not going after: < $500 stereo integrated amps with DSP room correction, with subwoofer out, set up for bi-amp. If those existed, people could just put drivers into glue together flatpack boxes. (These could even be set up to ship finished!) This would kill a lot of systems that are more expensive, which is why companies aren't doing this.
I just bought the Klipsch Nines on sale for $1200, and I love them. Awesome sound, and they can get loud. Next, I'm going to get an active subwoofer to go with them.
Thank you for calling a spade a spade. Not bashing Zreviews but I stopped watching his channel because everything was "The greatest!". If everything is great, then nothing is great, and what's the point of watching reviews. I know you don't want to bash products, but sometimes stuff just doesn't sound good, is not built well, or has no value proposition in relation to existing competition. All of those things need to be addressed and I find many reviewers afraid to say such, for fear of pissing off manufacturers and losing access, fear of thinking no one wants to watch a video of a product that doesn't get a recommend, if I negatively review it then no one will click affiliate links, any myriad of reasons. But there is value in all of that to the people watching the content, and those are the only people that you are really beholden to. Keep up the good work
Your experience may be different, however I’ve watched close to two dozen of Z’s videos and on more than one episode he’s found fault with a product. One I recall at the moment put four pairs of headphones against one another.
Before mid-fi stereo receivers had banana plug-ready (five way) binding posts, I grew frustrated with my incompetent speaker “twist the bare wire” capability, and switched my mains to “pro audio” powered monitors. Great sound from the Adam Audio bookshelf-sized beauties and I loved the “click in and play” XLR connectors. But boy was the combo of XLR and a power cord running to each monitor visually intrusive. I’ve since mastered banana plugs. Future-fi needs to take seriously the Yamaha experiment of making battery-powered surrounds. Ya know, the Schiit Syn outputting to a Bluetooth TRANSMITTER so we could use decent Bluetooth speakers as surrounds is an attractive thought.
On the pro side for PSB: these are very attractive speakers. I like that they’re experimenting with color.
But you’re right: the WiiM Amp ushered in a new age, where you can pair any passive speaker you want with an ultra convenient and inexpensive little integrated amp / streamer. Set your own budget north of $400, hook up to virtually anything, and be done.
Another stellar review. Also enjoy the comments section. I'm curious though when we start comparing these to a WiiM amp and passive speakers. Of course passive speakers that cost more are going to sound better because you were able to put more money towards the "speaker" part of the system while saving on a cheaper amp/streamer. If you're putting these on a bookshelf, or a desk where you can properly hide the cable routing, sure that makes sense. In my particular case, I'm replacing Sonos that are in a a stereo pair that are on either side of a fire place and I don't want to see any cables (other than power that are hidden in stands).
This use case for me is using Bluesound Pulse 2i (or Pulse M) or these baby's. Additionally, it needs to integrate with every other room and TV/Audio in the house for party's etc. This is where, I think anyway, I'm headed with Bluesound to replace my Sonos kit. Additionally, I had started down the Roon Nucleus path earlier in the year, so that's another integration point. It plays "ok" with my Sonos kit, but Sonos sometimes doesn't play well with its own kit, but likely due to older Play:1 and Play:3 in the system. The Move, Play:5, Roam don't seem to have the same problems (This points to another comment here about longevity).
It’s a talking streamer for only 85 bucks! The Echo (4th Gen), With premium sound, smart home hub, and Alexa. If you want good sounding background music, this is fine. When I want to listen to my favourite music I open my Mac Mini server and play familiar files I’ve downloaded.
I think there will always be a market for 'Swiss army knife' products in every industry. The convenience, as you said, and no-brainer implementation plug and play suits dome people, but tinker'ers will always need their itch scratched. So traditional kit will be around for a long, long time. Thank you for your observations and intro to this product. I personally don't like being forced to only have one option for anything. Be it control, sound shaping, or streaming. These are a pass for me.
What constitutes "standard kit" could change a bunch to absorb new tech, to the benefit of both average consumers and tinkerers. How about a system, where 2-way satellite speakers with no internal crossover plug directly into an integrated amp which has a digital crossover, sub out, and DSP correction? The cables could include a serial data line, so relays wouldn't let the signal into the speaker, without the right digital crossover setting. This could be powered by phantom power, and could be manufactured in bulk for less than most decent crossovers. It would protect the average consumer, while delivering much superior sound. Furthermore, companies could make a decent profit on those cables.
Main reason I bought some active speakers was because of the portability for when I don't wanna use my earbuds or small blue tooth speaker when I'm outside, especially if I have people over. Don't want to mount and run dedicated outdoor speakers, so they work perfectly for that. Now when inside, I much prefer my dedicated systems for music and movies.
For the same price as the IQs, you can buy the KEF LSX-2!
A lot of audiophiles really like the inconvenience...
True words there Randy!
If you’re not an “audiophile” music lover, then these integrated speakers are fine. Really excellent integrateds cost as much as separates anyway.
I love these speakers have them in the computer room. They are inoffensive size and sound-wise. Wireless set up can take a while but once its done it's done that is until the cat stands on the play pause button and resets it. Best with a sub. Pricey, yes.
Those seem an updated version of the Paradigm Shift series which were great and ahead of their time. I have them in my office system and for their size and $, using my phone as pre amp/streamer, they sound great.
Fun, as always. Gotta say I just like those kind of speakers that you connect with 2 wires and they work. Took my bookshelf Boston Acoustics put them on stands, took 2 wires from my amp and connected them to the back of the speakers and music came out. Never touched my phone. My phone, really?
Well, they still sell the passive Alphas, which are an excellent speakers. Also, I passed up a Denon Dolby Atmos receiver yesterday that was on sale for $18! I am already trying to get rid of an older Onkyo receiver so uni I do...
Perfectly happy with my STEREO ONLY Denon DRA-685.
Before even watching the video- passive speakers are definitely not going anywhere.. Though powered speakers are a solid option for desktop setups imo
If I could get powered active speakers that streamed music and had a good headphone amp on them I'd be happy
For the critics of active/powered speakers in the comments:
1) the "fiddeling about" with those isn't done by swapping hardware components or cables.
2) Instead, you'd fine-tune the active/powered system to your liking by applying different EQ curves or swapping the sound signature files (if supported by the vendor like with Buchardt). And you'd probably measure your in-room sound as well, to get some good pointers on where changes might be good to try out.
And as shown here by Randy not all powered speakers have those "tweaking knobs" built in.
So there's a middle ground where even with a separates-based Hifi system you can both tweak the sound with hardware swaps as well as with software / EQ changes (e.g. if you have a Wiim device in that system).
In the end it depends on everybody's preferences how they want to do it. I don't think any of those ways is better than the other.
I have the blusound node and I'm more than happy with the performance running through my Marantz AVR. I have way too many computers or devices within my house hogging WIFI bandwidth. Last thing I need is my music cutting out or my speakers not connecting. One of the biggest complaints I see on forums is wireless speakers poor sound quality and connectivity in comparison to passive speakers. Hard pass for me.
Future-fi is on to something when it comes to home theatre. Having five speakers or more that ONLY need a power cord because the TV communicates its sound wirelessly would fit my viewing habits. A separate 2 channel system for me would be imperative for critical music listening.
good review. I was thinking of a reply, but you kept hitting all the points. It (in theory) (maybe) is aimed at the noobie. with too much money. Get someone hooked on good quality sound, and the journey begins. Keep it simple for the noobs. maybe i'm a noob. Not a $1K powered speaker if it doesn't deliver the sound. I like your idea of the Wiim amp and a decent set of speakers. Noobs like simple though, and don't want a bunch of tiny chinese components wired together., dacs and stuff. They sort of want sonos simple. They (we?) will end up at crutchfield (hopefully/maybe), and can be steered in the right direction. let them/us buy something the wife likes, then start adding pieces, replacing pieces, etc. (you said that's the foible of the Wiim Amp, upgradeability?). We need something simple/cheap, that will knock our socks off (and the wife won't object too). Does anyone remember WAF? lol. Good review randy. keeping it real.
I wasn't expecting a U.P. callout. Yoopers represent!
The new CerwinVega! Powered speakers are crystal clear with good bass and have a 10” woofer with 3 way design. They are priced very similar to these and the Klipsh. Not one RUclips review on them,
Let me guess, the blue sound app needs an email to create an account to work. I’m so tired of creating accounts for physical components.
I have passive speakers and a Sonos amp. Increasingly I want to buy things that I can have repaired and will last. Next amplifier will probably be separate from a streamer and will be durable and not disposable. I may bite the bullet and buy McIntosh separates and have my children inherit them rather than the landfill.
Found some well priced towers. Paradigm 3000f.what are your thoughts? Maybe something to look into? I know you did the monitor atoms, but these are 3 way towers. Anyways, I love your honesty on the psb iq. You right audiophiles do like the inconvenience of choosing their equipment. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
WiiM amp plus a much nicer set of passive speakers is going to put a hurt on these lower end all in one powered offerings.
Canadia =)
I had a great talk with Paul about these on our way back from Axpona 2023. We ended up on the same flight back to Toronto =)
...The technology to make sure the timing between the speakers was a HUGE focus. Paul is not the type to do anything half-a**ed.
This is a really good honest review. Terrific job!
I think for most people, active speakers that can stream lossless music is very attractive.
Getting caught up …. Are the same thoughts applied to the KEF LSX ii ? (Have also heard the KEFs really need a sub)
The more committed these devices are to software, the more I think you need to ask... Would you value a vintage piece of audio equipment if it required that you have a working Windows XP platform in order to use many of its features?
Will any support at all or even a working operating system exist for the app in 20 years?
One of the advantages of BlueOS is it has an open API. The system can be controlled quite simply using standard HTTP commands. If for some reason the BlueOS apps were no longer available, the hardware could still be used with this API. I’m sure open source alternative control software would become available for those who don’t have the skills to do it themselves.
I have seen a couple few of these powered speakers videos of late.
You make some good points.
Are these for us, the Venn diagram us ?
Answer no.
I've got a nice little desktop system that I run my computer into my mini streamer with a little subwoofer on it I spent like 700 bucks and I bet it sounds more than comparable to these speakers
These things keep getting better and better. I have a small pair of Dynaudio XEO 2's and I enjoy listening to them as much as I do my main system. I'm amazed at how good they sound. I think they will continue to gain popularity. Maybe not with audiophiles or tinkerers but with the average person that wants great sound without the clutter.
I still like 12" woofers with a midrange and tweeter, along with an amp that will power them.
I want Dumb Powered Speakers for my legacy PC ASUS soundcard. Hopefully loud enough to hear as I’m fussing about the room.
Howdy from Texas!
Because these PSB Speakers connect either Bluetooth or worse, WiFi, the quality is not going to be anywhere near as good as proper wired speakers, Not to mention the electronics are inside the enclosure, affecting the way the sound resonates inside the enclosure. The WiiM amp is brilliant. It is a lot higher quality sound than the amps in the PSB Alpha's are. I am sure the PSB Alpha's have their place, but most people would be better off to buy the WiiM and a set of reasonable book shelf speakers
Appreciate your take as always. Thank you.
Probable for the average consumer. But just like that have started making more films for cameras, they will always make DACs and amps for the people who appreciate the old. The better (beyone my budget - 5 figured) powered speakers match the amp to the tweeter and woofers used and each can be separately amped and sound very good. Looks like these will want a sub.
The Klipsch 5's, 7's, and 9's are all bi-amped like that too for much more affordable prices, I picked up the 5's about 18 months ago for just under $600 and they're pretty great for small to medium sized rooms. They are all "dumb" powered speakers though so you'll need a Wiim streamer or something like it if you want to stream (or you could just use your smart TV via HDMI if you don't care about high-res streaming).
How do these compare to the Klipsch The Sevens?
I will bet this speaker will not work in the future due to software obsolescence. This will probably happen in less than 5 years (50% chance) and after 10 years (100%).
So much for being future proof! That's why the Wiim-external DAC modular approach makes more sense.
BlueOS has an API that allows full control through HTTP commands. Writing an alternative control program is relatively simple, and HTTP protocols aren’t going away anytime soon. Can’t speak for other systems, but I’m not worried about software obsolescence with BlueOS.
In my opinion, PSB powered speakers are overpriced. I purchased a pair of the alpha P5s for $280 on sale a few years ago for my desktop 2.1 system and I really like them. The power version is like $600
I agree that the ability to purchase products overtime in a separates system is very handy. I think that is my ultimate take away from this video. I have never really thought of that advantage before, but always done it that way.
For all but the audiophiles who do like the inconvenience, I think "future-fi" is the future - for many reasons, but a big one is that dsp is getting better and better. From sound bar innovation to the blade one meta and everything in between, the industry is pursuing a "do everything" speaker. Streaming music has also been a huge boon to the whole enterprise. If Samsung was smart they would come out with a sonos killer that comes with roon (which i believe also has dsp). There will always be a market for separates, but i think future-fi is the future for most people.
Powered speakers compete with soundbars in my mind ... would it not be fair to say they are generally better than the soundbars?
Great insight and review as usual
Just ordered a pair of Alpha IQ. With a sixty day return policy there is no reason not to have them to compare with my component system. If I like them as well or nearly as well I’ll sell the component system except for my turntable, which will likely be the only thing hooked up to the alphas. Simplicity is what I want. If I don’t like them, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I think they sound great! BTW
Yep, I like them a lot. Imaging is marvelous.
The issue of product longevity is much bigger than the comments made. I have been working in this industry as a consultant for 40 years. There are no loudspeakers older than 20 years old that sound like they did 15 years ago! New driver tech and class D predicts longer life, reductions in smoking at home in the house is practically unheard of, which prevents deep drive unit rot so I disagree. Modern equipment is also not hot glued together. Modern production techniques are engineered solutions, and china has thought us that. So folks get on it, it’s all changing for the much much better.
Have you ever auditioned any Questyle dac's?
Curious if you would ever do a comparison of popular streamers in the same external DAC to see if any sonic differences are present in steamer processing, software app, jitter and digital output formats etc.?
It woulld be nice to hear Randy's comparison. I know there is a difference and I have my preference but would like someone to compare them and hear the difference in reviewers terms. The one I prefer some with a power filter and ethernet isolator. I am curious if these would make a Wiim sound as good (to me).
I'm currently testing a pair of PSB Alpha P3 speakers (the passive baby version).
I thought they were pretty good when I first bought them, but I'm now using them on a decent DAC (the ES9018), and they sound really nice.
The imaging / soundstage is very good on them.
They have a fair amount of bass response, even though the version I have are tiny.
But... I agree they are maybe a bit warm, and tbh, seem to have a "dip" in the frequency response.
Although I haven't tried measuring the freq response yet, it's far more noticeable when switching back to other similar-sized speakers (like my B&W dm303).
I haven't tried any of the newer / larger PSB speakers, though.
My rear surrounds are currently a pair of "PSB Intro LR", which are even smaller. lol
I would have no trouble recommending the smaller PSB speakers for more casual listening, or even for a lounge system.
The passive ones are generally quite cheap, so they are great for the money, but maybe not what I'd call "High-end, on a budget".
(I'm not sponsored by, nor represent PSB, btw. I just happen to be testing some of their small bookshelf speakers right now.)
Oh, and one bonus point is, I'm sure some people immediately think PSB = Pet Shop Boys, which isn't a bad thing. lol
I got most of the DIY AV Receiver working, btw. ;)
(I mentioned it on a live stream chat recently.)
Specs so far...
* 12 speaker outputs, using TPA3255 Class-D Power Amp modules
* 4 independent Subwoofer preouts,with independent Delay / EQ / Room Correction.
* Dolby Atmos and DTS-X decoding. Up to a 7.4.4 configuration. (plus one spare speaker output).
* Decoding for TrueHD (sans Atmos), DTS-MA, and legacy DTS, Dolby 5.1, Dolby Surround etc.
* Two 8-channel ESS DACs (currently testing the older ES9018, but will eventually be two ES9038Pro).
* Fully Balanced / Differential, from the DACs, to the amps, and to the Volume/Preout board.
* Balanced preouts via DB-25 connectors, for use with XLR Breakout cables to external power amps.
* Three HDMI 2.0 inputs, with 4K60 passthrough and HDCP 2.2.
* ARM SoC (Allwinner H616, for playing or streaming movies / music etc.), with WiFi and Bluetooth.
* 1500 Watt 48V switching Power Supply for the power amp modules.
* Five-inch LCD and Volume / Selection dial on the front panel.
* Headphone amp TBA.
Still a lot to do, to get more of it finished, but it's sounding *very* nice in Stereo so far.
Love Darkos channel
Passive speakers will NEVER replace powered speakers.
Can't upgrade for larger rooms.
For audiophiles, powered speakers will never replace separates.
This is exciting though, because: The Connex, The Fives, The Sevens, The Tannoy Gold 7’s, monoprice MM-5, Svs Prime Wireless (already at the point I wanna make). We are getting to powered speakers that will be fully capable of being their own systems.
I just got a the CA AXR100 integrated amp which has a great phono preamp and streamer built in and then I’ve got some speakers to plug into it.
The next step is creating the integrated powered speaker which will be able to provide great hifi quality.
I know people that want great quality sound but don’t want to ‘get lost in the sauce’ and I think once elac and klipsch and emotiva bring out the full combos, it’ll be amazing for the industry and maybe even show people “well maybe I’m more of an audiophile than I thought”
BTW - this is a subject erinsaudiocorner covered like a week ago.
I have a pair of these and they have been nothing but painful! The shop even gave me a second set to try. They have failed before even completing the set up and are now showing a solid red led - have been for 6 hours so at a guess they need to now go the a service agent. Save yourself the pain don’t buy them. I wish I never had.
Why call a active speaker with streamer inside: Future-Fi?
So Sonos is Future-Fi?
If you have powered speakers, what do you do with your $10,000 speaker cable? I like swapping amps and speakers around like you do, and with powered speakers I can't do that.
In terms of flexibility, one size fits none. One and done or one and none? Where is the tape monitor again? 😊
I used to be an audiophile, but I found it was fixating on the audio quality as opposed to enjoying the music.
I have gone for a high end pair of smart speakers that I stream to , it is very convenient and the sound is nearly as good as what i am used to.
These speakers are apparently not plug and play. More like plug and pray they connect to each other. The Fluance powered speakers are a much better alternative paired with a Wiim streamer. I have the older ai60s for my desktop and secondary TV room. They sound great! The newer ai61s and ai41s are even better with a multitude of inputs and outputs. You can get them for $250 and $210 respectively. The PSBs are way overpriced for what they provide.
They don’t look anywhere as nice, but the Alpha AM5 are a better value and probably sound better. Or the Kanto Tuk on sale.
Not my thing but to each their own.
Speakers, amplifiers, streamers exist for a couple of decennia.
Putting those in one box makes them FUTURE-Fi?????
Schmeler Avenue
Not as long as I can wield a soldering iron.
Active speakers are ideal for a lot of people. First for people who don’t want to worry about synergy between different components, because the manufacturer of an active speaker already did that for you. Secondly many people live in small spaces and third many people have a preference for a minimalistic home without their living environment being dominated by separate components. They can be a perfect replacement for a soundbar with a TV and give you better sound for music than a soundbar. Even an integrated streaming amplifier adds an extra box, which can be a problem in for example a small bedroom. I suspect Randy doesn’t get the minimalistic approach interior when I see the room where he is making his videos in.
So, in summary, it feels like this is a good way to burn a grand+ for no reason other than to have a subpar sounding system that takes up 2 outlets. Hmmm... (inconvenient)... but tempting? NOPE!
Alvina Curve
Coralie Mission
Bridie Grove
Hilbert Parks
Alexis Crest
Rudy Plains
Beaulah Knolls
Santa Camp
Elmira Fork
Monica River
Milton Port
Carson Square
Herman Island
Schmeler Unions
Elda Falls
Boyle Creek