What's Different? - The Return of the King (Part 3)

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  • Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 73

  • @roukerasati9611
    @roukerasati9611 3 года назад +10

    I honestly loved how some of the scenes in the movie were played out. Like when Eomer finds Eowen (extended edition for those of you who don't remember/haven't scene it). Man- You can both hear and FEEL the despair and heartbreak.

    • @Checkmate1138
      @Checkmate1138 2 года назад

      Too damn loudly, though, lol. Nearly blew out my hearing, haha, and a jumpscare too, you don't see it coming at all.

  • @wulozhero6684
    @wulozhero6684 3 года назад +61

    A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises...forth Eorlingas!

  • @MellowMutts270
    @MellowMutts270 3 года назад +85

    I would’ve preferred to see the book version of the WitchKing and Gandalf’s confrontation.

    • @MountainFisher
      @MountainFisher 3 года назад +10

      I cannot believe the extended version, what was P. Jackson thinking of?

    • @deanzaZZR
      @deanzaZZR 2 года назад +4

      A tortured Witch King of Man not even holding his One of Nine rings shattering the staff of a fully realized White Wizard wearing Narya, one of the three uncorrupted Elvish Rings of Power? It's so wrong. It likely works for film viewers I suppose, but wounds my Tolkien heart.

    • @DD-fj2ut
      @DD-fj2ut 2 года назад +1

      Yes, shattering Gandalfs staff in the movie was complete nonsense. Just doesn’t happen..

  • @orrointhewise87
    @orrointhewise87 3 года назад +33

    "Now come the days of the king!
    May they be blessed"
    Ugh this is where the books and the movies are on equal footing, I could read one or watch the other and it'll be a glorious day :)
    I would love a reading of the book from all the actors of the movie reading they're parts respectfully
    That would b the ultimate blending of both mediums 😁

  • @brianmessemer2973
    @brianmessemer2973 3 года назад +23

    11:48 Aragorn: "Eomer! You son of a b*tch!"
    - The handshake that inspired Dutch & Dillon

    • @genghisgalahad8465
      @genghisgalahad8465 3 года назад +3

      Whassamattah, Saruman got you pushing too many ✏️ PENCILS??

    • @rorschach1985ify
      @rorschach1985ify 2 года назад +2

      I always thought those two scenes were familiar when I first read the book years ago. Glad to see I am not alone.

  • @capthappy8884
    @capthappy8884 3 года назад +8

    And I hope most can see why many of the decisions were made for the films. Im a life-long Tolkien reader, and one of the greatest feats accomplished by PJ and crew, was knowing what worked better in literary form, and how to make it work in film form.
    HUGE reason the trilogy is a masterpiece! They did what many(myself included) thought impossible.

  • @ironblue4593
    @ironblue4593 3 года назад +12

    I really like the ride of Rohirrim in the movie, such an epic scene

  • @mrblack9330
    @mrblack9330 3 года назад +3

    A minor difference, but I always wondered why the Rohirrim in the film blew their horns when they arrived and notified the orcs of their presence, giving the orcs time to form ranks and get archers ready (though in the end that didn't really help them). Took me a long time to realise that Jackson had them blow their horns on arrival so that we could get the dramatic reveal of their arrival at a crisis moment, then get Theoden's speech, more horns and then the charge. In the book, the horns the Witch King and the others hear are the horns being blown as the Rohirrim begin their charge after Theoden's speech (which we read in the next chapter) capitalising on the element of surprise. Did anyone ask me to write this? Does it really matter? The answer to both is no, but here we are anyway. Great video once again, keep up the good work

  • @laura-bianca3130
    @laura-bianca3130 3 года назад +15

    I want the Scouring of the Shire....I want to see the Shiriffs humiliated 😄

  • @gilanbarona9814
    @gilanbarona9814 3 года назад +8

    Having seen many a movie based on a book, it is actually a good thing that the LOTR movies, though not quite exactly the same as the books' narratives, were true to them nontheless. What the makers of the films did was to take some literary or poetic licence without changing the overall theme or even much of the plot. Many other book based movies have changed so much from the books they were based on, that they had become completely different stories entirely. One last thing; while this will be covered in the next installments, no doubt, one thing that I wish the movies did not do away with was the part about the scouring of the Shire. This chapter, to my mind, was the final act of a maturing group of four friends who, through their adventures, had 'grown up' in a way, and the scouring of the Shire was the proof of that. It also showed that, even though Sauron was truly out of the picture, evil was still part of the reality of the world, and the victors in the battle against evil should not sit on their laurels. Thanks for this great video. It allows us to appreciate Tolkien even more.

  • @mattmo20
    @mattmo20 3 года назад +8

    Don't wait too long to give us the final chapter !!

  • @ProvidenceNL
    @ProvidenceNL 3 года назад +17

    What i would give to see the Knights of Dol Amroth ride out of the gates. I love the movies but Gondor got done so dirty. The Gondor of the movies wouldnt have lasted 5 years against any threat, yet Gondor had stood for thousands.

  • @SNWWRNNG
    @SNWWRNNG 3 года назад +46

    I think the movies had an epic and action-packed battle, but missed the importance of morale (which Tolkien was familiar with from his experience as a philology professor and WWI officer) in the Battle for Minas Tirith.
    Minas Tirith is emphasized to be almost unconquerable while defended - the problem in the books isn't that the Witch-king and giant trolls can force their way in, since Mordor's army never really enters Minas Tirith. It's that the continuous darkness, Mordor's giant army and the Nazgul's aura of despair demoralize the defenders to the point where they will soon lose their morale and surrender or flee (which is how almost all battles end irl).
    The Rohirrim reinvigorate the morale of the defenders until they are also caught up in the melee outside the walls and see the corsair ships arriving. At that point, it seems like the defenders are about to abandon all hope of victory when finally, the battle turns as Aragorn unfolds the banner of the High King of Gondor and Arnor which Arwen made for him; most forces of Mordor rout at that point, because they are shocked that "their" ships are carrying enemies, they feel like everything has miraculously turned against them and they have to flee for their lives; they could still win if they all fought, but in the end armies are made up of individuals with survival instincts. Aragorn's few hundred men help with driving off the enemy, but based on the description of the battle the crucial factor was turning the morale of both armies around by flying the banner.
    In the movies, it feels much more like a back-and-forth of power. Grond beats the gate and trolls beat defenders, Witch-king beats Gandalf (in the books, they fight with words/prophecy rather than "direct magic"), Rohirrim beat orcs, Mumakil beat Rohirrim, the Oathbreakers beat everything because they kill what they touch and almost instantly win the battle. In the books (where they aren't at Minas Tirith) the Oathbreakers are powerful because they are so demoralizing that them using their weapons never comes up. Everyone in South Gondor just runs when they approach, even the Gondorians.

    • @j.mbarlow5952
      @j.mbarlow5952 3 года назад +5

      I get what you're saying. But when I watch The Return of the King, I feel that what you're saying about morality does run true in the movies as well. Admittedly, it's harder to portray an uplifting of morality on the screen compared the tangible push and pull of the battlefield. The musical score goes a long way in these movies, as we all know. However The Oathbreakers, even as a kid, I felt seemed misused. Without reading the books at that time, I understood that the limitations of time were probably the cause of this.

    • @SNWWRNNG
      @SNWWRNNG 3 года назад +3

      @@j.mbarlow5952 That's fair, the movies definitely focus on the rising of hope and despair among the Gondorian soldiers inside the city. But it is a bit undercut; even as the Gondorian soldiers bravely stand behind the gate with Gandalf, the giant trolls that come in and seem to sweep them away rather quickly make their courage seem somewhat meaningless, even if it's still valiant. But I guess that is more a ramification of not having the brief standoff between Gandalf and the Witch-king at the gates, and having the army of Mordor ravage the lower city before Rohan arrives.

    • @j.mbarlow5952
      @j.mbarlow5952 3 года назад +2

      @@SNWWRNNG Yeah that's true. Everything happens a bit quicker in the movies, and these moments can be fleeting indeed.

  • @rhysjenks
    @rhysjenks 3 года назад +3

    A pleasure Yoystan. Been a fan of Men of the West for quite some time now. Regardless of the topic, I can always count on you making it high quality. Keep up the impeccable work.

  • @sethmiller2534
    @sethmiller2534 3 года назад +1

    Day and night I sing this song you’ve placed gently and carefully into my head. I hear your voice and follow it, hoping to find you at its end. Oh Yoystan, you are so close yet so far, come to me

  • @Steel-101
    @Steel-101 3 года назад +28

    I’m just curious, did Frodo get the Mithril vest back in the end of the story? That vest and sting would make great heirlooms. Well for the Gamgee family due to the fact that Frodo never had any kids.

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  3 года назад +42

      Yep! Gandalf took it from the Mouth, and would give it back to Frodo on the Fields of Cormallen. Indeed, the vest would save Frodo's life one more time during the story, when Saruman tried to stab him in the Shire. I believe he left it with Sam when he went West.

    • @Steel-101
      @Steel-101 3 года назад +12

      @@MenoftheWest Oh wow I almost forgot about Frodos Encounter with Saruman. Awesome! I’m glad he got the vest back. Thanks for the answer Mr. West 😎👍🏼

  • @kossend1
    @kossend1 3 года назад +6

    4:20 that sight Frodo sees at the end of the Return of the King book is also a vision he has in The Fellowship of The Ring, in Tom Bombadil's house.

    • @JoeQuake
      @JoeQuake 3 года назад +5

      "But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise. The vision melted into waking; and there was Tom whistling like a tree-full of birds..." --The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter 8, "Fog on the Barrow-Downs"--

  • @tikotiko9436
    @tikotiko9436 3 года назад +6

    Yes started this series yesterday was sad that I caught up so fast. Now you drop this. Perfect

  • @mevb
    @mevb 3 года назад +6

    In the movie it is vaguely hinted upon that Denethor have a Palantir as he says "Do you think that the eyes of The White Tower are blind? I have seen more than you know!" which explains how he knew about Aragorn being in Rohan with Théoden.

    • @RadagastDaltrey
      @RadagastDaltrey 3 года назад +1

      It is defiantly hinted at in his dialogue. I dont know why they did not just through it in there at the pyre before he died.

    • @mevb
      @mevb 2 года назад

      @@RadagastDaltrey The dialouge was needed at the meeting with Denethor scene to show the reason why he refused to light the Beacons other than his depression as he clearly states, just like in the book, that he "will not bow to a Ranger of the North" to show character and the motivation for his actions which was needed for the movie.

  • @chrisblevins755
    @chrisblevins755 3 года назад +4

    Loves this part. Amazing comparison. Thank you! As always, a fantastic video.

  • @jackolantern147
    @jackolantern147 3 года назад +11

    What if Aragorn had challenged Sauron to come forth in single combat at the black gate? Akin to Fingolfin challenging Morgoth in the first age.Could he hold out long enough for Frodo to destroy the ring, or perhaps, distracted by the Hobbits, even achieve victory.

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  3 года назад +6

      That is a great question! I think Aragorn, against Sauron's physical form, would beat him, purely because Sauron's physical form without the One Ring was far weaker.

    • @SNWWRNNG
      @SNWWRNNG 3 года назад +3

      Sauron didn't have a reason to come out, really. His army didn't expect him to and he had Aragorn's army in the fangs of his trap.
      If they actually fight, I don't think Aragorn would have lasted very long - not just because he's outmatched (Gil-Galad and Elendil were greater and only achieved a tie in a 2v1, even if Sauron had the Ring back then) but just because 1v1 fights don't take hours, like large battles do. And Aragorn was solely needed after the war, without his kingship the victory would've been much less complete; no the third union of Elves and Men and therefore no reinvigoration of the Elvish strain in humanity.

    • @MandalorV7
      @MandalorV7 3 года назад +2

      I think in the movie they were going to do that. But they thought it would overshadow Frodo, Sam, and Gollum destroying the ring. The troll in the Black Gate is actually Sauron covered up in CGI.

  • @mevb
    @mevb 3 года назад +5

    The part with Sam penetrating The Watch Guards at Cirith Ungol was shot, according to Peter Jackson in the audio commentary. In the scene Sam was pushed back by an invisable force field created by the Watch Guard statues at both sides of the gate but then Sam manades to break through it by using Sting against it (instead of the Phial of Galadril). This wasn't even used in the Extended Cut due to pacing issues. Hopefully this will be shown on the 25:the anniversary edition of The Lord of the Rings which Jackson has hinted at throughout the commentaries of all three films.

  • @marionbaggins
    @marionbaggins 3 года назад +5

    Avengers Endgame: *Portals scene* your have nothing on LOTR's The Ride of the Rohirrim scene!!! This was the original Epicness, of the Calvary arriving!!!
    It's certainly interesting how little changes in removing or changing a character or scene, plays out within the context of a movie!!!
    Thanks Mellon for the third part of What's Different from ROTK...Until Ulmo's ECH, Marion Baggins Out!!!

  • @MrNicoJac
    @MrNicoJac 3 года назад +2

    This part of the story does not just show that alliances matter.
    Timing plays as big a part!
    (and coordination/luck too)

  • @slicerneons3300
    @slicerneons3300 3 года назад +7

    It's hard to have one favoured over the other. Both do different things Very Well. Both are also Quite Long. 😁

  • @IronDragon-2143
    @IronDragon-2143 3 года назад +1

    Gandalf: "Farewell my brave Hobbits. My work is now finished. Here at last on the shores of the sea comes the end of our fellowship. I will not say do not weep. For not all tears are an evil."

  • @cm275
    @cm275 3 года назад +2

    I hope we get a What’s Different for The Hobbit once this series wraps up.

  • @DaWoWzer
    @DaWoWzer 3 года назад +8

    I like the idea of Aragorn bringing in a legion of men from Gondar rather than ghosts. It really speaks more to the idea of unity and the power of men being what over comes the darkness, not deus ex machina unkillable ghosts.

  • @palantir135
    @palantir135 3 года назад +11

    The witch king was made too powerful in the movie.

  • @justmecarter1717
    @justmecarter1717 3 года назад +2

    It was never the elves (at Helm's Deep) not the Dead Army, but real MEN who fought and won the worst wars ever fought. (Okay, they had help from 4 little hobbits, lol, but it was the humans that fought and won against evil.) I think PJ sort of belittled that part.

  • @Murlockingqc
    @Murlockingqc 3 года назад +1

    The Light of Galadriel is just a Light, but it gave courage to Sam when he shone it at the Great Spider and the gate.
    I don't know if it's because Hobbits are very courageous or because the Light gave him confidence and courage.

    • @Murlockingqc
      @Murlockingqc 3 года назад +1

      ​@@Enerdhil I did read the Silmarillion, but it doesn't mention the Silmarils gave powers, like the Ring of Powers. There was definitively something special about them, but their powers is never mentioned ?
      Because you said "IS" capitalized, I thought you would have provided extra information on that subject.
      As far as I understand, the Light of the Star was only used to blind and reveal path in shadow, aka a flashlight.
      What was special is how an innocent folk, a hobbit, travel into the land of death, Mordor.
      I think the fact that they are so oblivious about the story of Middle-Earth made more courageous/fearless to our eyes than most creatures.

  • @wulozhero6684
    @wulozhero6684 3 года назад +16

    Being my favorite book of the series, I disliked a lot of the changes. But, I recognized the necessity. I excepted most and even enjoyed one or two. But Sam leaving Frodo at the stair will always be abhorrent to me.

  • @halostopmotion8776
    @halostopmotion8776 3 года назад +4

    Lol got add for return of the king game before watching

  • @Mark723
    @Mark723 3 года назад +3

    I got goosebumps from your initial reading - you are that good. Thanks for the final episode in this brilliant series.

  • @stanalbatross8615
    @stanalbatross8615 3 года назад +2

    Please when discussing sam and frodos path trough mordor, draw some lines on a map or something like that

  • @wchamp170
    @wchamp170 3 года назад

    If I am mistaken I apologize, I haven't read the book in a while but didn't the cavalry charge come before light, literally crashing into the back of the orks and utterly destroying them?

  • @kaidorade1317
    @kaidorade1317 3 года назад +7

    Looks at title: why what happened to the king?! Oh gods! Sauron was dethroned! Nooo!

  • @berserkerofthrawn5707
    @berserkerofthrawn5707 3 года назад +6

    obvious with different we have a movie that shows as pictures and voices the other is a book we have to read it there's the difference

    • @MenoftheWest
      @MenoftheWest  3 года назад +6

      Man.... That could have saved me so much time!

  • @apdarkness905
    @apdarkness905 3 года назад +10

    This is a most interesting comparison, I've heard that some purest don't like the changes made to the adaptation, but for myself I understand the need for the alterations. If the book had been translated step for step, beat for beat it would never have worked for a film, I do believe the choices taken were the correct ones at the time and made the films the modern masterpiece of cinema they are, just as the book is a masterpiece of literature. Each of the version works for their respective mediums, neither is the superior of the other. If the essence of the story remains intact, then the tale Tolkien intended to convey is still being told on both the screen and the page.

    • @darkjudge8786
      @darkjudge8786 3 года назад +2

      Blah blah, fanboy with zero skills in the field agrees with Hollywood, blah blah

    • @apdarkness905
      @apdarkness905 3 года назад +9

      @@darkjudge8786 The wise only speak of what they know. Therefore be silent and keep your forked tongue behind your teeth, witless worm.

    • @waynepurcell6058
      @waynepurcell6058 2 года назад +1

      They could have done without the army of the dead winning the battle. Everybody says that the movies get the spirit of the books but a full 1/2 of the spirit of the books is man coming into their own and taking care of business pretty much themselves.

  • @thanevakarian9762
    @thanevakarian9762 3 года назад +1

    and If they made these movies today it’d be an absolute disgrace. We can all understand why. They really picked the best possible time to do
    It.

  • @m.atillaizol3426
    @m.atillaizol3426 3 года назад +4

    👍👍👏

  • @Youtubesucks916
    @Youtubesucks916 3 года назад +1

    Only two communities I have joined Cardano ADA and LOTR .

  • @deanima9943
    @deanima9943 3 года назад

    I love the level of detail you bring to these. Despite having read the books and seen the movies multiple times I still need a breakdown of the differences for some of this stuff. Thanks for what you do

  • @jacobsedlack1173
    @jacobsedlack1173 3 года назад +1

    GROND!

  • @niilowallenius4698
    @niilowallenius4698 3 года назад +3

    Waaah

  • @xaviermontesdeoca2440
    @xaviermontesdeoca2440 3 года назад

    I'm so glad that the normal version doesn't include that scene of Gandalf and the witch king, that has to be one of the most stupid and unnecesary changes made for the movie, crap, Gondor as a hole is poorly portrait in the movies

  • @vikingshaggy2786
    @vikingshaggy2786 3 года назад

    DEATHH!!!!