If you have a dopamine dog, that old standard dog training rule of ending the training session when the dog does it right, has new meaning. It’s now negative punishment, when the dog is in love with the work & addicted to the dopamine spike that comes with the opportunity to do!
I think that is -R You take away some thing the dog likes in order to have him practice even more fast strong willingly next time. As the Bhudda said : live the table being still hungry , leave the bd as soon as you wake up !
Also, @Michael… if Bullvigh hadn’t just discovered the dumbbell reinforcing all by himself, you may have created the same high value by allowing him to FIND his advantage in holding it, via the unforced force fetch. Sort of like I commented on an earlier episode, sometimes working through the puzzle creates the value in the behavior for the dog, like when the agility obstacle it was once afraid of, instantly becomes it’s absolute favorite. A dog will fight for it’s own invention, whether they invent it all by themselves, or they THINK they invented the solution to the puzzle we placed before them. So long as they don’t see that we created the path of least resistance to the answer, when we also created the puzzle. 😜
Fully agree with : A dog will fight for it’s own invention, whether they invent it all by themselves, or they THINK they invented the solution to the puzzle we placed before them. So long as they don’t see that we created the path of least resistance to the answer, when we also created the puzzle. Making it easier and even rewarding the dog when he fully has learned a new behaviour make the very same behaviour performing weaker and weaker . Therefore I think adding the cue is a very delicate moment and should be done via classical conditioning only (in my opinion ) therefore making the cue becoming the behaviour !
There is a really interesting video from Ivan Balabanov as well. "The Real Facts About Science Based Dog Training" Hope this is not considered spam. Generally Ivan is well loved in the dog training community
I’m not convinced that the operant behaviors we teach such as sit, down, stand, heel to name a few, can be self rewarding or self reinforcing. I truly believe that if you decide to stop positively reinforcing or negatively reinforcing those behaviors, the dog will lose hope and no longer see the need or benefit of performing those behaviors on cue. Now if your talking about a behavior such as digging or barking or chasing, I believe those behaviors can be self reinforcing or self rewarding, but as far as the majority of the behaviors we teach, I believe we will always have to reinforce those behaviors. Unless someone proves me wrong.
You’re right those behaviors are not self rewarding or self reinforcing in the way you mean. But if you create the right reinforcement schedule, what you can do is make the dogs addicted to those behaviors, and in that way, they do become self reinforcing. When done correctly, the dog becomes a dopamine junkie and its “fix”are the behaviors.
@@FullQuadrantPodcast absolutely we want behaviors to be addicting to the dog. We want them to sit, down, stand, heel, go to place on cue with heart and soul, but to say that it’s self reinforcing would be wrong because we will always have to reinforce those behaviors. I see tons of IGP trials or PSA trials and the dogs look very happy, but most of those behaviors must go on to have outside reinforcement. The reason we pay to go the gym is because the gym is truly self reinforcing. The act of working out and what it does for our mental is rewarding. No one gives us that but ourselves. I do believe that there are behaviors that the dog finds self reinforcing, but I don’t think we should call it self reinforcing unless the behavior truly doesn’t need outside rewards from us. So if your dog is truly addicted to sitting when you say sit and you still reward him with food, praise, or toys, you can’t say that behavior is self reinforcing because if it were truly self reinforcing you’d never have to give the dog food, toys, or affection for performing that behavior on cue. The dog wouldn’t need or want what you have in order to keep performing that behavior with heart and soul. That’s just my thoughts. But I love you guys podcast, keep em coming.
When we use NePoPo* to create a deep(er) nose for footstep tracking, in the beginning the “Ne” is only resistance on the leash. If it were uncomfortable enough for the dog to try to escape/avoid, the opposition reflex it creates, wouldn’t be present.
Love it!! Great topics & great thought provoking discussions!! Keep it up!! Go! ♥️🔥💪🏻
Appreciate the feedback and comments! Great insights
"Motivation through the lens of the dog" I might put that on a coffee mug😅😅😂
If you do, take a picture and send it to us/tag us!!
CC and OC mold together so well
It’s hard to have one without the other! And when done well, using both make an extremely well trained dog!
If you have a dopamine dog, that old standard dog training rule of ending the training session when the dog does it right, has new meaning. It’s now negative punishment, when the dog is in love with the work & addicted to the dopamine spike that comes with the opportunity to do!
I think that is -R You take away some thing the dog likes in order to have him practice even more fast strong willingly next time. As the Bhudda said : live the table being still hungry , leave the bd as soon as you wake up !
Also, @Michael… if Bullvigh hadn’t just discovered the dumbbell reinforcing all by himself, you may have created the same high value by allowing him to FIND his advantage in holding it, via the unforced force fetch. Sort of like I commented on an earlier episode, sometimes working through the puzzle creates the value in the behavior for the dog, like when the agility obstacle it was once afraid of, instantly becomes it’s absolute favorite. A dog will fight for it’s own invention, whether they invent it all by themselves, or they THINK they invented the solution to the puzzle we placed before them. So long as they don’t see that we created the path of least resistance to the answer, when we also created the puzzle. 😜
Fully agree with :
A dog will fight for it’s own invention, whether they invent it all by themselves, or they THINK they invented the solution to the puzzle we placed before them. So long as they don’t see that we created the path of least resistance to the answer, when we also created the puzzle.
Making it easier and even rewarding the dog when he fully has learned a new behaviour make the very same behaviour performing weaker and weaker . Therefore I think adding the cue is a very delicate moment and should be done via classical conditioning only (in my opinion ) therefore making the cue becoming the behaviour !
This is what we’re screaming 😃 We completely agree!
Do you have a link to the quote about the psychological effects of punishment?
It was taken from this: Dr. Ron Van Houten, “The Effects of Punishment on Human Behavior”, Axelrod and Apsche, Academic Press, 1983
@@FullQuadrantPodcast thanks!!!!
There is a really interesting video from Ivan Balabanov as well.
"The Real Facts About Science Based Dog Training"
Hope this is not considered spam. Generally Ivan is well loved in the dog training community
1:15:03 word
I’m not convinced that the operant behaviors we teach such as sit, down, stand, heel to name a few, can be self rewarding or self reinforcing. I truly believe that if you decide to stop positively reinforcing or negatively reinforcing those behaviors, the dog will lose hope and no longer see the need or benefit of performing those behaviors on cue. Now if your talking about a behavior such as digging or barking or chasing, I believe those behaviors can be self reinforcing or self rewarding, but as far as the majority of the behaviors we teach, I believe we will always have to reinforce those behaviors. Unless someone proves me wrong.
You’re right those behaviors are not self rewarding or self reinforcing in the way you mean. But if you create the right reinforcement schedule, what you can do is make the dogs addicted to those behaviors, and in that way, they do become self reinforcing.
When done correctly, the dog becomes a dopamine junkie and its “fix”are the behaviors.
@@FullQuadrantPodcast, or the OPPORTUNITY to do the behaviors. The dopamine spikes on the cue, not when the dog sits.
@@FullQuadrantPodcast absolutely we want behaviors to be addicting to the dog. We want them to sit, down, stand, heel, go to place on cue with heart and soul, but to say that it’s self reinforcing would be wrong because we will always have to reinforce those behaviors. I see tons of IGP trials or PSA trials and the dogs look very happy, but most of those behaviors must go on to have outside reinforcement. The reason we pay to go the gym is because the gym is truly self reinforcing. The act of working out and what it does for our mental is rewarding. No one gives us that but ourselves. I do believe that there are behaviors that the dog finds self reinforcing, but I don’t think we should call it self reinforcing unless the behavior truly doesn’t need outside rewards from us. So if your dog is truly addicted to sitting when you say sit and you still reward him with food, praise, or toys, you can’t say that behavior is self reinforcing because if it were truly self reinforcing you’d never have to give the dog food, toys, or affection for performing that behavior on cue. The dog wouldn’t need or want what you have in order to keep performing that behavior with heart and soul. That’s just my thoughts. But I love you guys podcast, keep em coming.
When we use NePoPo* to create a deep(er) nose for footstep tracking, in the beginning the “Ne” is only resistance on the leash. If it were uncomfortable enough for the dog to try to escape/avoid, the opposition reflex it creates, wouldn’t be present.
Unless you tap with low stim or pop with the leash before he/her Gleason with the nose into the track and … again before rewarding