440c is superior to 420hc when in the same knife and heat treating process. Buck needs to stop using with that garbage 420hc and get with the times already!!
I bought buck 119 in the late 70's / early 80's made with 440c very tough, but hard to sharpen. I heard they switched to 420hc because it is easier for the masses to sharpen? I like my old 440c. 2 -3 deer before I need to strop it
When keeping it real goes wrong 😳... J/K, great test. I get alot of knife knowledge from your comparison videos. The M-Tech is an ultra basic knife. Definitely not alot of attention to the fine details. Rock On 🎸💪.
I think what you're seeing on the stone is just the fact that the hardness is just soft. If you're lucky mid 50's. Then if it is punched to make the blank then you're going to have work hardening at the edge. If you're working through "gummy" steel it's gotta be burnt to hell
Hey, can you talk about the stones you're using with the worksharp precision adjust aftermarket holder? Like what grits, and best value. Thanks and keep up your excellent content, Martin.
If you watch my work sharp attachment videos I talk all about them and which ones you should get, I have 2 separate videos on them you can just look them up, or find them in my Sharpening play list, one I posted a few days ago. But I'm planning on doing a stone video soon
Thanks Jered, I guess I just had an attack of short attention span. I was able to order 3 venev stones but F1200 wasn't available. I had to settle for F800. It'll do. Thanks again, Martin.
So this was a test between better steel (MTech) versus better craftsmanship (Buck). I do recall from the live which one you felt performed better so I won't spoil that surprise, but I think it's safe to say most of us were pulling for the Buck to win. Buck used to be the premier knife company, but their inability to innovate and evolve has had them falling behind in today's market. The tip failure I thought was largely based on stock thickness. Most budget brands in the sword market (Ritter Steel & Deepeka) will overbuild their swords meaning extra thick blade stock. Those swords are very resilient at hitting hard targets and not fracturing or bending, but they don't really cut either. They do more smashing through a target, which is great if you got a mace but its the opposite of what you look for in a cutting sword. You should compare the weight of these 2 fixed blades. I would wager that the one that broke is lighter and thinner. That might explain cutting performance too.
Absolutely the Mt is far heavier and beefier. And I'm not mad at the buck for the small bend I expect it. Hey it didn't snap and I rather have its geometry in this case it's so so much better in use, if it was a timely thing I would give up before completing anything with the mt
@@NeevesKnives That bend at the tip instead of a break would indicate a softer heat treat. "Bend but don't break" is how the lower heat treatments perform. Higher HRC means it takes more stress to deform the blade but also more likely to just snap off, which us a critical failure. Softness In the sword market you got dedicated cut swords and dedicated thrust swords. The thrust swords have a higher HRC because rigidity allows it to stab to greater effect. In the knife market the higher HRC knives are the slicers meant for soft mediums. Chef knives and other thin ground knives. I think that the Buck and MTech in the video you made classify as camp knives, so they're both gonna be softer than a folder.
@@NeevesKnives the steel is not necessarily soft... 420hc reaches toughness levels close to 3v. The steel is more malleable due to the high toughness. People confuse malleability with "soft steel" If im not mistaken buck hardens 420hc to about 58-59 and do a decent job
The MTech knife you are testing here is the MTech 17 MC07273 Xtreme 8.5-Inch fixed blade knife with micarta handle by Master Cutlery. I believe it has been discontinued, the price tended to run in the $50 to $69 range, but I have seen close outs a little over $35. At that price it had no chance, if you wanted to do a real test on MTech's you might want to try the very popular MTech USA MT-20-35 for around $11 or the MTech MT-20-80BK (RAT 5 clone) at around $30. MTech also makes two very popular Esee clones called the MTech USA M-1022gncs (Esee 3 clone) and the MTech USA 1021gncs (Esee 6) if you can find them. I have no problem with the Esee's but like the Randall's prefer to keep them pristine for the collection and haul the MTech's (and Cima's) out where they risk damage or (usually water) loss. Thoughts from a Knife salesman...
Timber can vary in hardness within the same log, could just have been a bit harder or different timber grain structure in log that caused the one to end more that the other.
Great review. I've owned an M-Tec pocket knife and for what I using it for it was okay. I wouldn't buy one today, but it was a work beater knife that I wasn't afraid to abuse, or lose.
The only mtech I like is the m151. The Cold Steel Trailmaster clone. While it definitely is inferior steel, it allowed me to see if I was gonna like the Trailmaster before shelling out 300 dollars. I want to thank you for your info on the venev greater dog stones for the work sharp precision adjust holder. I got the holder and the 240 + 400 and the 800 + 1200. They are great so I went back and got the 80 + 150 and wow. I couldn't believe how fast it raised a burr when reprofiling. Thanks again, its a very good setup.
Awesome comparison and I agree there is not a Mtech knife I would recommend to anyone. Buck makes some great knives. Would love to see how the Ruike Jager in 14c28n compares to the buck 420hc. Keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable.
Great job as always keeping it real and admitting up front you didn't want to have the MTech win. Was surprised when I saw you kick them after throwing them into the log. That was what I would call abuse.
The only MTech that I ever bought early in my knife collecting days that was any good was a button lock. I can't remember the name or model, but it was like 10$. The fit and finish was good and to this day, no joking, it is one of the best button lock actions I've ever used. Its a cut above anything they do.
Totally off topic, but need The Master Sharpener to give me a pro tip. Got a Benchmade Bugout today. The bevels are really terrible: one side is OK-ish; the other side has a really shallow angle change from belly to tip causing that section to be much wider than the rest of that side and the opposite side. I don’t want to drop down to match that angle, so what’s the best way to go about it to even it all out from heel to tip so both sides match?
Well it's possible it's the grind, in that case even if you reprofile with the same angle on both sides it will look similar just with a new edge and angle, but my first step would be to reprofile at 17° per side and see if it matches atleast close after, if not then you need to adjust the angles differently from one side to the other if it bothers you
@@MrEric0822 raise the angle, but you first need to find out if it's the edge or grind, your going to have to reprofile the knife anyway so start with the same angle on both sides and see if it will match after Sharpening if nor then change angles from one side.
I'm not sure that the MTech is full tang. Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I don't much trust fixies that aren't full tang. Except Morakniv, but they've been doing it for like 100 years. I also saw a vid where someone tried their best to get the blade from the handle, and that thang wasn't going anywhere. But I ramble. Great vid as always. P.S. - that's a good looking Kizer!
Rambling is all good; it sparks discussion a lot of the time. And your rambles are way shorter than mine. I think that MTech is full tang. It's got the trademark steel stripe that runs down the spine and up the belly of the handle. I could be wrong but I don't think stick or hidden tangs can mimic that look in a cost effective way. But on the topic of full/stick tang you're not wrong about it being more durable in full tang configurations. I collect khukuris and own both stick and full tang models. The full tang one I have has delimbed a few trees in my backyard and besides a few chips in the edge is standing strong. My main issue is the weight, full tangs are generally heavier so you tire sooner chopping and cutting with one. And since all the weight is below the point of balance that weight does nothing to add to chopping power. In that regard stick tang serves a purpose in being more efficient to swing around for extended periods of time. It's still preference but it stick tang has its advantages too.
Also, here's the Kizer shown in the video, the Kizer Roach in gray micarta (exclusive MojaveOutdoors model): www.mojaveoutdoorgear.com/products/kizer-roach-v4477e2
im not sure about that, i know the hardness comes from the actual heat treatment process, and companies can run them harder or softer some choose to run the steels on the softer side for toughness but its usually not a good thing
Just send that Buck for warranty and they will probably send you a new one. Their customer service is pretty good. I just received my 4 dot 1982 finger groove Buck 110 from their "spa treatment" and I had them replace the 425M clip point blade for a drop point blade (no nail nick). I was hoping to choose a CPM154 or CPMS35VN blade option but I could only get the 420HC which is fine because they do it so well. Anyway, it came back almost like it was brand new! The main two blades I carry now are the 3 dot 1980-81 110 with 440C and the 4 dot 1982 finger groove 110 (now with new drop point). And no I'm not an old man. I dig the vintage stuff more than the new tacticool super duper steel blades now. Just subscribed.
That's awesome and I appreciate the sub 🙏 hopefully I see you around, I like a bit of everything just in different ways, from vintage to modern, I'm definitely more modern, but I'm still passionate over the vintage
Also, 440c isn't a joke steel. It's not a super steel, but it can certainly get any job done. 420HC might be preferable for a field/camp knife because it holds up well (it's tougher than it is resilient), but it's also easier to sharpen on the spot. You can even sharpen in a flat or river stone. Also, on that bend, it's easier to fix on the go. And like you said, it didn't break, cuz it's not as brittle. I'm drunk and rambling again. Great review.
Yepp, I was just going to comment and say No Mtech just buy a mora robust for $15 and you could not kill or break it if you tried lol and then you said "get a mora" so we're on the same page already lol
I’ve heard you give glowing reviews for $20 knives, so when you say “Don’t buy an MTech, they suck,” that’s the closest thing to verbal murder a person can get.
I just feel sad about that Buck. Seeing that tip hit me right in the stomach like I was halfway through a workday and did something stupid (speaking from experience) and there goes another knife.
Doubtful in heat treat, but possible if they got an uneven soak at 1875 to 1925 F then pulled it before the temp was even. Now as hard as that is to believe my experience with Chinesium metals in the fields I worked in is not good. Many knives are HT on a moving belt like some damned pizza joints do. Then it is pulled off and quenched the best way from the China factory I saw, no telling how they did yours. This was years ago before Covid, 2 years. Now Kizer for instance I'd bet has highly trained (in America) Chinese QA people who reject shoddy workmanship on most of their lines, many other knife manufacturers do, but not all or they had Americans there who could not stay after the draconian measures decreed by this current regime or Covid had the majority leave and were never allowed back. Sorry, didn't mean to get political, but that actually might be the reason for the poor QC on that knife. Most likely they burned the steel somewhere bad! They did something wrong after HT Mr. Neeves. Some knifemakers grind their knives' bevels after HT and if they burn one spot it can go deep. Then there is the other reason I won't send my knives to outside Heat Treat without instructions to USE NO HEAT TO FIX A WARP!!!! Don't use a doggone HAMMER either!!! Stainless steel is not a differential HT capable steel. Something about that air hardening thing. If the blade was warped after HT they may have used a torch to warp it back straight, no kidding, then you get a soft spot in middle of the blade. I'd be willing to bet that is what you have there young Sir. I've never HT Buck's 420HC as a knife, only as machine parts, so not applicable here. Yet Paul Bos gets better performance with the steel by simply understanding the parameters of his steel. 420HC even at Buck's HRC 55/56 cut as much in a CATRA cutting test as 1095 at a 61.8 hardness. Why? Simple, Bos pulls the Chromium Carbides out of the steel with that 0.34% Cr and CC is much much harder than cementite/ferrite or Iron Carbide for the uninitiated. Bos also knows that 420HC will bend before it breaks, it is a very tough steel even as hard as it gets. It beat my poorly HT O1 too. I only use O1v so no fair, freaking 1095 beat it. Let me HT that 440C and see what you get (if it is 440C with the C standing for Chinesium, may not be), I'd beat 420HC everyday except in toughness. Believe it or not Buck sticks with a 1910's steel for a reason, because if you look at Knife Steel Nerds website and see 420HC's toughness, it is up there with AEB-L and its cousin 14C28N, only 3V beats them. 420HC was actually 40 ft. lbs. of toughness at HRC 55.5, that beats most steels with no exaggeration. Now I can get 57 hardness without cryo and 59 with deep cryo out of 440C with all those Chromium Carbides, but it isn't as tough, never stand up to the abuse you gave those points, will break for sure and so should that one you have if optimized. Unless ground to a distal taper point like I do on my knives. Blade Geometry over steel, over heat treat, to a point. Then there is the knifemaker who will not guarantee his knives if you use them as a pry bar like me. Buck gave their famous warranty because, not the quality of their work as much as the material of their work and that's 420HC. Know what old tool steel I made axes from that beats every steel out there hands down in toughness? S5 Shock Steel, at 59 hard it is 150 foot lbs. on the Charpy toughness scale, 3V? A paltry 85 and at higher hardness, 3V drops to 40 ft lbs. at 62. S5 being a lower carbon steel (.60%) is best only taken to 60 hard as toughness drops fast, like a sloping cliff at the beach. But imagine an axe-head at 59-60 hardness that will not chip or break in half like some Husqvarna axes did that they advertised as being 60 hard (saw pics of them).
Thank you for the in depth response, heat treatmen quality is so important and aside from the hrc the quality of the heat treat is vital, I'm always fascinated to learn about information I'm still struggling on, and no worries on the politics I'm sure we are very much on the same page, I do think there are some Chinese makers that take knife making very seriously and the integrity of their company but there's also the majority that is the exact opposite, I have a blade grinder otw to start doing regrinds and blade grinding and I have a lot to learn, I won't be heat treating atm but I'm extremely excited to jump into another part of the knife world. I know it will take some learning but I'm going to learn how to do amazing grinds.
@@NeevesKnives I can recommend some commercial HT companies, but to prevent warping grind them cool. Don't give them an excuse to fix your warps. If you get a knife grinding setup fix it so you can wet grind, after HT I meant. Grinding annealed steel quench in water often. Warping comes from over-heating during initial grinding.
How are you gonna do one on a guide and one freehand then claim that the edges are identical? And coincidentally the one you freehanded is the one you expressed an immediate distaste for. Hmmm. Lemme guess who wins this little vs...
I'm a professional freehand knife Sharpener, my edges are about as perfect as you can get comparing it to a fixed angled edge isn't a problem. And I was probably saying the grit and angle I sharpened them at are identical
This video is pointless. Why would you compare different steels, one from a company known for good geat treatment and the other known to be budget af??? You couldve at least use a Condor or Nieto to have a somewhat fair comparison.
440c is superior to 420hc when in the same knife and heat treating process. Buck needs to stop using with that garbage 420hc and get with the times already!!
I bought buck 119 in the late 70's / early 80's made with 440c very tough, but hard to sharpen. I heard they switched to 420hc because it is easier for the masses to sharpen?
I like my old 440c.
2 -3 deer before I need to strop it
This is why you're one of my favorites! Comparisons, testing, budget etc
When keeping it real goes wrong 😳... J/K, great test. I get alot of knife knowledge from your comparison videos. The M-Tech is an ultra basic knife. Definitely not alot of attention to the fine details. Rock On 🎸💪.
I am a huge Blade fan... I need to know more. I USE SAWS AND BLADES FOR WORK.. Manufacturing
cool
Well your in the right place Hector 👊
For Chinese 440C, nobody can beat Ganzo. Their blades wear resistance is just too good for the price.
I agree
A better comparison but be the buck Selkirk vs the MTech. Very similar design of both
Jarad I have that buck knife and I love it!!!!! I think I spent 40 bucks in Walmart and I love that thing!!!!!
Still sold at Walmart?
Oh sweet I got it on clearance for 17$ best purchase ever great knife
@@NeevesKnives Never at this price again. Probably not going to be less then $30 either.
18:18. The MTech has two noticeable chips near the tip.
More than 2 more like 20
@@NeevesKnives Buck had a really good HT of their blades.
I think what you're seeing on the stone is just the fact that the hardness is just soft. If you're lucky mid 50's. Then if it is punched to make the blank then you're going to have work hardening at the edge. If you're working through "gummy" steel it's gotta be burnt to hell
Yes
So, like a cheap damascus
The title is so intriguing
Hey, can you talk about the stones you're using with the worksharp precision adjust aftermarket holder? Like what grits, and best value. Thanks and keep up your excellent content, Martin.
If you watch my work sharp attachment videos I talk all about them and which ones you should get, I have 2 separate videos on them you can just look them up, or find them in my Sharpening play list, one I posted a few days ago. But I'm planning on doing a stone video soon
Thanks Jered, I guess I just had an attack of short attention span. I was able to order 3 venev stones but F1200 wasn't available. I had to settle for F800. It'll do. Thanks again, Martin.
The 800 will work great it gives you a polished edge with a ton of bite, no need for the 1200 you will be perfectly fine with the 800
Me: 😔
Jarad: BANG! Neeves Knives!
Me: 😃
😆 👊 👊
Bang!!
So this was a test between better steel (MTech) versus better craftsmanship (Buck). I do recall from the live which one you felt performed better so I won't spoil that surprise, but I think it's safe to say most of us were pulling for the Buck to win. Buck used to be the premier knife company, but their inability to innovate and evolve has had them falling behind in today's market.
The tip failure I thought was largely based on stock thickness. Most budget brands in the sword market (Ritter Steel & Deepeka) will overbuild their swords meaning extra thick blade stock. Those swords are very resilient at hitting hard targets and not fracturing or bending, but they don't really cut either. They do more smashing through a target, which is great if you got a mace but its the opposite of what you look for in a cutting sword. You should compare the weight of these 2 fixed blades. I would wager that the one that broke is lighter and thinner. That might explain cutting performance too.
Absolutely the Mt is far heavier and beefier. And I'm not mad at the buck for the small bend I expect it. Hey it didn't snap and I rather have its geometry in this case it's so so much better in use, if it was a timely thing I would give up before completing anything with the mt
@@NeevesKnives That bend at the tip instead of a break would indicate a softer heat treat. "Bend but don't break" is how the lower heat treatments perform. Higher HRC means it takes more stress to deform the blade but also more likely to just snap off, which us a critical failure. Softness
In the sword market you got dedicated cut swords and dedicated thrust swords. The thrust swords have a higher HRC because rigidity allows it to stab to greater effect. In the knife market the higher HRC knives are the slicers meant for soft mediums. Chef knives and other thin ground knives. I think that the Buck and MTech in the video you made classify as camp knives, so they're both gonna be softer than a folder.
@@SeemsLogical for sure, I woulda liked to see a bit harder, but is what it is and I'm still happy with the results and didn't expect much different
@@NeevesKnives the steel is not necessarily soft... 420hc reaches toughness levels close to 3v. The steel is more malleable due to the high toughness. People confuse malleability with "soft steel"
If im not mistaken buck hardens 420hc to about 58-59 and do a decent job
@@concealmenttraining9371 I agree but I've used a lot of 440 and 420 in this case at its thickness it shouldn't have bent so easily
The MTech knife you are testing here is the MTech 17 MC07273 Xtreme 8.5-Inch fixed blade knife with micarta handle
by Master Cutlery. I believe it has been discontinued, the price tended to run in the $50 to $69 range, but I have seen close outs a little over $35. At that price it had no chance, if you wanted to do a real test on MTech's you might want to try the very popular MTech USA MT-20-35 for around $11 or the MTech MT-20-80BK (RAT 5 clone) at around $30. MTech also makes two very popular Esee clones called the MTech USA M-1022gncs (Esee 3 clone) and the MTech USA 1021gncs (Esee 6) if you can find them. I have no problem with the Esee's but like the Randall's prefer to keep them pristine for the collection and haul the MTech's (and Cima's) out where they risk damage or (usually water) loss. Thoughts from a Knife salesman...
👍 i got that buck on clearance for 17$ heck of a deal
@@NeevesKnives Absolutely!!!
You have a fixed blade!!! Wowww. I think that you only have a folders. Great video!!!
Bang!
Timber can vary in hardness within the same log, could just have been a bit harder or different timber grain structure in log that caused the one to end more that the other.
I gotta get that micarta roach.
Mojaveoutdoor I have a 10% discount code (NeevesKnives) 👍
@@NeevesKnives Thanks Jerod!
Superlative "free-hand" edge , terrific stuf !!! ☺
Great review. I've owned an M-Tec pocket knife and for what I using it for it was okay. I wouldn't buy one today, but it was a work beater knife that I wasn't afraid to abuse, or lose.
But knowing what you know now, if you were giving knife recommendations for knives 30$ and under I doubt they would make the top 20
@@NeevesKnives That is true. There are much better knives out there for around the same price.
I remember a Li'l Abner cartoon by Al Capp where Abner was whittling a log and after a passage of time finished up with a toothpick.
😆
The only mtech I like is the m151. The Cold Steel Trailmaster clone. While it definitely is inferior steel, it allowed me to see if I was gonna like the Trailmaster before shelling out 300 dollars. I want to thank you for your info on the venev greater dog stones for the work sharp precision adjust holder. I got the holder and the 240 + 400 and the 800 + 1200. They are great so I went back and got the 80 + 150 and wow. I couldn't believe how fast it raised a burr when reprofiling. Thanks again, its a very good setup.
Awesome! I'm glad your enjoying them it Definitely makes that system the best it can be
Great video bro!
ok ok thanks for anopther great video
Hi, for a low budget u can advice about better quality than mtech for an afordable price, i looking especially for folding knifes. thanks a lot!
Ganzo knives 👍
Awesome comparison and I agree there is not a Mtech knife I would recommend to anyone. Buck makes some great knives. Would love to see how the Ruike Jager in 14c28n compares to the buck 420hc. Keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable.
Im trying to get one of those
When a Chinese knife says that it’s ‘abc’ steel, can that be trusted, is there a way to test if it’s D2 or whatever??
Even though that's my knife. I wanted to see it fail. It was just a case how fast and how hard. 😂
I get it, sometimes it's great to just sit back and, watch the world burn.
😆 🤣 yeah I get it thanks brother ❤
Dude,,,,,you married UP. Good job,,,,👍👍👍
These 2 knives look like my Esse 4,,,in s35vn. It's my steak knife,,,,😜😜😜
🙏
Probably got a bad heat treatment. Like a pocket knife with blade play and someone else gets no blade play.
Tell me how you really feel about MTech! Appreciate your candor. Serious question, what is the solution you spray on your sharpening stone? Thanks!
Dish soap and water mixed
Great job as always keeping it real and admitting up front you didn't want to have the MTech win. Was surprised when I saw you kick them after throwing them into the log. That was what I would call abuse.
Lol 👊
Can’t beat the Mesa. I have the Endeavor version since 2013 and beat the living hell out of it and it’s still going strong.
The only MTech that I ever bought early in my knife collecting days that was any good was a button lock. I can't remember the name or model, but it was like 10$. The fit and finish was good and to this day, no joking, it is one of the best button lock actions I've ever used. Its a cut above anything they do.
They must of made some mistakes that day 😆 when that one was made
@@NeevesKnives yeah they definitely did! Only one I recommend. Everything else from them, 🗑️
Other than the Dolica, M-Tech is THE grail knife!!! 🤣🤣🤣 Good video, sir. ✌️
Totally off topic, but need The Master Sharpener to give me a pro tip. Got a Benchmade Bugout today. The bevels are really terrible: one side is OK-ish; the other side has a really shallow angle change from belly to tip causing that section to be much wider than the rest of that side and the opposite side. I don’t want to drop down to match that angle, so what’s the best way to go about it to even it all out from heel to tip so both sides match?
Well it's possible it's the grind, in that case even if you reprofile with the same angle on both sides it will look similar just with a new edge and angle, but my first step would be to reprofile at 17° per side and see if it matches atleast close after, if not then you need to adjust the angles differently from one side to the other if it bothers you
@@NeevesKnives Is there a way to “narrow” the existing wide bevel on that one side?
@@MrEric0822 raise the angle, but you first need to find out if it's the edge or grind, your going to have to reprofile the knife anyway so start with the same angle on both sides and see if it will match after Sharpening if nor then change angles from one side.
Buck continues to make a great knife.
The difference between cutting and burnishing. Pushing around steel and mushing it around without cutting and abrading.
Well said
BANG! Was that a Kizer Roach??? I need that
Yup I have a 10% discount code for mojaveoutdoor (NeevesKnives )
I'm not sure that the MTech is full tang. Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I don't much trust fixies that aren't full tang. Except Morakniv, but they've been doing it for like 100 years. I also saw a vid where someone tried their best to get the blade from the handle, and that thang wasn't going anywhere. But I ramble. Great vid as always.
P.S. - that's a good looking Kizer!
Rambling is all good; it sparks discussion a lot of the time. And your rambles are way shorter than mine.
I think that MTech is full tang. It's got the trademark steel stripe that runs down the spine and up the belly of the handle. I could be wrong but I don't think stick or hidden tangs can mimic that look in a cost effective way.
But on the topic of full/stick tang you're not wrong about it being more durable in full tang configurations. I collect khukuris and own both stick and full tang models. The full tang one I have has delimbed a few trees in my backyard and besides a few chips in the edge is standing strong. My main issue is the weight, full tangs are generally heavier so you tire sooner chopping and cutting with one. And since all the weight is below the point of balance that weight does nothing to add to chopping power.
In that regard stick tang serves a purpose in being more efficient to swing around for extended periods of time. It's still preference but it stick tang has its advantages too.
Also, here's the Kizer shown in the video, the Kizer Roach in gray micarta (exclusive MojaveOutdoors model):
www.mojaveoutdoorgear.com/products/kizer-roach-v4477e2
Thanks brotha don't forget the (NeevesKnives) 10% discount code
Old savage yeah I Definitely don't trust it at all its Definitely a full tang but I wouldn't doubt it to be welded together lol
@@NeevesKnives damn bro, I'm not Old Savage! I'm 35... im the OddSavage! Regardless, you do good work. 🤠👍
I would of expected those 2 steels to be pretty equal to each other.. Buck hardens the 420 to 58 with is what 440c is at give or take.
The 440c on this could be anything, especially how it felt on the stone i wouldn't doubt lower 50s
@@NeevesKnives Thats true. If it were 440c but who knows.
So, hardness and then softness in blade steel, is from uneven carbide distribution. So, that's my best guess. Have a great day 😂
im not sure about that, i know the hardness comes from the actual heat treatment process, and companies can run them harder or softer some choose to run the steels on the softer side for toughness but its usually not a good thing
Just send that Buck for warranty and they will probably send you a new one. Their customer service is pretty good. I just received my 4 dot 1982 finger groove Buck 110 from their "spa treatment" and I had them replace the 425M clip point blade for a drop point blade (no nail nick). I was hoping to choose a CPM154 or CPMS35VN blade option but I could only get the 420HC which is fine because they do it so well. Anyway, it came back almost like it was brand new! The main two blades I carry now are the 3 dot 1980-81 110 with 440C and the 4 dot 1982 finger groove 110 (now with new drop point). And no I'm not an old man. I dig the vintage stuff more than the new tacticool super duper steel blades now. Just subscribed.
That's awesome and I appreciate the sub 🙏 hopefully I see you around, I like a bit of everything just in different ways, from vintage to modern, I'm definitely more modern, but I'm still passionate over the vintage
Also, 440c isn't a joke steel. It's not a super steel, but it can certainly get any job done. 420HC might be preferable for a field/camp knife because it holds up well (it's tougher than it is resilient), but it's also easier to sharpen on the spot. You can even sharpen in a flat or river stone. Also, on that bend, it's easier to fix on the go. And like you said, it didn't break, cuz it's not as brittle. I'm drunk and rambling again. Great review.
Absolutely, it's a steel I love having in the field especially by buck 🇺🇸
Yepp, I was just going to comment and say No Mtech just buy a mora robust for $15 and you could not kill or break it if you tried lol and then you said "get a mora" so we're on the same page already lol
👊
Awesome video! 🤘🤘🤘🤘
I’ve heard you give glowing reviews for $20 knives, so when you say “Don’t buy an MTech, they suck,” that’s the closest thing to verbal murder a person can get.
Well there's well spent 20$ and poorly spent 20$ getting ripped off and getting your money's worth and in some cases and then some
@@NeevesKnives that’s the truth, not all $20 products are equal!
I just feel sad about that Buck. Seeing that tip hit me right in the stomach like I was halfway through a workday and did something stupid (speaking from experience) and there goes another knife.
It will be fixed or reprofiled better than ever
"Cheap gas station knives" lol
That's almost anything from Master Cutlery sucks
Absolutely
hopefully the MTech really is 440c
Its hard to say, it probably is they have noproblem showing off surgical stainless lol
Doubtful in heat treat, but possible if they got an uneven soak at 1875 to 1925 F then pulled it before the temp was even. Now as hard as that is to believe my experience with Chinesium metals in the fields I worked in is not good. Many knives are HT on a moving belt like some damned pizza joints do. Then it is pulled off and quenched the best way from the China factory I saw, no telling how they did yours. This was years ago before Covid, 2 years.
Now Kizer for instance I'd bet has highly trained (in America) Chinese QA people who reject shoddy workmanship on most of their lines, many other knife manufacturers do, but not all or they had Americans there who could not stay after the draconian measures decreed by this current regime or Covid had the majority leave and were never allowed back. Sorry, didn't mean to get political, but that actually might be the reason for the poor QC on that knife.
Most likely they burned the steel somewhere bad! They did something wrong after HT Mr. Neeves. Some knifemakers grind their knives' bevels after HT and if they burn one spot it can go deep. Then there is the other reason I won't send my knives to outside Heat Treat without instructions to USE NO HEAT TO FIX A WARP!!!! Don't use a doggone HAMMER either!!! Stainless steel is not a differential HT capable steel. Something about that air hardening thing. If the blade was warped after HT they may have used a torch to warp it back straight, no kidding, then you get a soft spot in middle of the blade. I'd be willing to bet that is what you have there young Sir.
I've never HT Buck's 420HC as a knife, only as machine parts, so not applicable here. Yet Paul Bos gets better performance with the steel by simply understanding the parameters of his steel. 420HC even at Buck's HRC 55/56 cut as much in a CATRA cutting test as 1095 at a 61.8 hardness. Why? Simple, Bos pulls the Chromium Carbides out of the steel with that 0.34% Cr and CC is much much harder than cementite/ferrite or Iron Carbide for the uninitiated. Bos also knows that 420HC will bend before it breaks, it is a very tough steel even as hard as it gets. It beat my poorly HT O1 too. I only use O1v so no fair, freaking 1095 beat it.
Let me HT that 440C and see what you get (if it is 440C with the C standing for Chinesium, may not be), I'd beat 420HC everyday except in toughness. Believe it or not Buck sticks with a 1910's steel for a reason, because if you look at Knife Steel Nerds website and see 420HC's toughness, it is up there with AEB-L and its cousin 14C28N, only 3V beats them. 420HC was actually 40 ft. lbs. of toughness at HRC 55.5, that beats most steels with no exaggeration. Now I can get 57 hardness without cryo and 59 with deep cryo out of 440C with all those Chromium Carbides, but it isn't as tough, never stand up to the abuse you gave those points, will break for sure and so should that one you have if optimized. Unless ground to a distal taper point like I do on my knives. Blade Geometry over steel, over heat treat, to a point. Then there is the knifemaker who will not guarantee his knives if you use them as a pry bar like me. Buck gave their famous warranty because, not the quality of their work as much as the material of their work and that's 420HC.
Know what old tool steel I made axes from that beats every steel out there hands down in toughness? S5 Shock Steel, at 59 hard it is 150 foot lbs. on the Charpy toughness scale, 3V? A paltry 85 and at higher hardness, 3V drops to 40 ft lbs. at 62. S5 being a lower carbon steel (.60%) is best only taken to 60 hard as toughness drops fast, like a sloping cliff at the beach. But imagine an axe-head at 59-60 hardness that will not chip or break in half like some Husqvarna axes did that they advertised as being 60 hard (saw pics of them).
Thank you for the in depth response, heat treatmen quality is so important and aside from the hrc the quality of the heat treat is vital, I'm always fascinated to learn about information I'm still struggling on, and no worries on the politics I'm sure we are very much on the same page, I do think there are some Chinese makers that take knife making very seriously and the integrity of their company but there's also the majority that is the exact opposite, I have a blade grinder otw to start doing regrinds and blade grinding and I have a lot to learn, I won't be heat treating atm but I'm extremely excited to jump into another part of the knife world. I know it will take some learning but I'm going to learn how to do amazing grinds.
@@NeevesKnives I can recommend some commercial HT companies, but to prevent warping grind them cool. Don't give them an excuse to fix your warps. If you get a knife grinding setup fix it so you can wet grind, after HT I meant. Grinding annealed steel quench in water often. Warping comes from over-heating during initial grinding.
69th thumbs up!!!!!!! wwwoooooooo!!!!!
Woohwooh👊
Another thing you can see all the micro chips on the edge of the M tech after that testing.
Definitely.
How are you gonna do one on a guide and one freehand then claim that the edges are identical? And coincidentally the one you freehanded is the one you expressed an immediate distaste for.
Hmmm. Lemme guess who wins this little vs...
I'm a professional freehand knife Sharpener, my edges are about as perfect as you can get comparing it to a fixed angled edge isn't a problem. And I was probably saying the grit and angle I sharpened them at are identical
RETAINED AUSTENITE WILL MANIFEST ITSELF AS SHARPENING TROUBLES...
mtect do not use 440c
This video is pointless.
Why would you compare different steels, one from a company known for good geat treatment and the other known to be budget af??? You couldve at least use a Condor or Nieto to have a somewhat fair comparison.
it was just to compair bucks steel to another brand im not claiming its my best video ive done a lot of content so dont hold it against me
What tbe BUCK?!? The tip bent!