Didn't end up in my feed. I had to go to your channel to see if you put up a video. I always check every channel to make sure o don't miss anything and sure enough, your video wasn't on my main feed.
I actually found Shadow Rising to be middle of the road. I am not enamored by Jordan's prose and storytelling in general but the plot and plot ideas tend to be the things that keep me interested. The flashback to Rand's Aiel family history was the absolute highlight of the book (the ending had flashes of quality too), I can't say enough good about it. Really helped to make me care more about the present. There was also more pathos and emotional power there than in the story bookending the flash back, in my humble opinion. I want to finish the series despite to see where it ends and what development occurs with the characters.
This is the book that really got me into the series. I thought eye of the world had some interesting ideas, I thought the great hunt expanded the world pretty well and I thought the dragon reborn did a great job at fleshing out side characters. The shadow rising was the first book that brought it all together for me and made me realize this series really was worth going through.
I loved this book, just finished it actually. Honestly wasn’t a huge fan of the tower sequence, not that I didn’t like it, it’s just that I didn’t really feel that it was very impactful. Also I’m a bit confused as to why the Amyrlin was so easily freed, felt off to me. Other than that, it was great. The Aiel history sequence has got to be the coolest thing I’ve ever read; that was perhaps the most genius way to deliver that information, going backwards in time like that, especially with it going back to the age of legends and delivering way more than just Aiel history.
My favorite book in the series. Great review Daniel. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Rhuidean scenes with Rand. It gets better everytime I read it and this is Perrin's best plotline (not that his others suck).
Perrin's storyline is my favorite part of this book, even though all the others are also epic in scope. Maybe it IS because of that, Perrin's feels a bit more... personal? I have no real issues with Perrin and Faile really. Is the Saldaean way of partnership crazy and a bit off from our own. Yes. Is it crazy? Yeees? But it is what it is in the books and I can accept that. There are worse people out there (Couch*Seanchan*couch*Sharans*couch). ;-) POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED Well, I guess we have different opinions Daniel but that is fine. I lean more towards Min as the "best" of the three, she certainly have the most screen time overall throughout the series and is a big reason for why Rand does not go over the top. When Rand gets briefly caught in the male a'dam and is forced to choke Min I was on the edge of my seat. I still do now when I get to that point even when I know the outcome. (OMG, Rand wields the True Power! WTF, this is bad! Only... not?) But speaking of Aviendha. The WoT Companion still lists her as having Rand's quadruplets or whatever but that means that is with old Moridin's body I assume? Unless their last meeting before the Last Battle starts for realsies made her preggers? Does not matter much, it is still Rand INSIDE and all three women feels that through the bond. I think that all of them will be with him again in time once the dust settles, though for one I assume he has to visit Seanchan if Min is still now a noble of that nation. Unless they stay in their occupied part of Randland for a while afterwards, the old Seanchan being in ruins from civil war. It is a wonder why Min is not pregnant too with all the time they spent together. It is not said if she bears any children anywhere though. Oh well. At least in my headcanon they all meet again with time, though probably not at the SAME time.
Just finished the book and I have to say, so far, it has the best climax of the series! Starting book 5 tomorrow and I can’t wait to see how crazy the series gets from here!
Just finished The Shadow Rising on my first read through of the series. It is my favourite so far, books 1&2 I enjoyed but 3&4 have hooked me entirely. One thing I absolutely loved that you touched on was the expansion of scope and epicness of the story. I think this also worked really well with Perrin’s plotline, almost as if the broadening of scope the series as a whole is experiencing magnified the intimacy of Perrin’s story in two rivers. Also loving the increasing Mat/Odin parallels. Great book, great review, can’t wait to get into the Fires of Heaven.
I really enjoyed this book. (Finished last night). I think Dragon Reborn was a bit more fun, but this was right up there. I think my reward for finishing each book is watching Daniels review after.
In sweden they had the bad habit of splitting each book into 2 parts before publishing. I can tell you not much happen "book 7" (i.e. first half) and I've always considered it one of the worst book in the series, whereas I loved the second part. Considering them as a whole (as they should be) it makes more sense :)
For me, Perrin"s two river plot was the best part of this book. I was really disappointed about his disappearance in the next few books. I would disagree about relationships in WoT though, I don't think relationships were the strong point of Robert Jorden. But may I am missing some of them I have read only eight books I stopped halfway through ninth book. I know I will complete them but don't know when.
Perrin was my favourite character of the three friends. It just occurred to me that my lossing interest in the series does start to drop as Perrin's story becomes less interesting
Just finished this book, quarantine sucks but honestly I’m flying through books already. I might start Fires of heaven next, I have such a long list of books to get through though and I’ve already started Slow regard for silent things so we’ll see how that goes today.
Keeping in mind I (only) finished book 9, what are the good romances in WoT? Nynaeve&Lan is one, maybe Rand&Min (mostly because Min is awesome). But really, I don't see any other so far
So far in my first time reading the series, this is THE BOOK. I'm enjoying learning about the Aeil culture. What is so striking is the similarity between Tower training and the Wises one training. Obviously these Wise Ones were at one time Aes Sedai
I finished Shadow Rising on Christmas eve for the first time and it was a joy, that was my present. I completely agree with you. Perrin's story is great. I think that Faile serves a good purpose here. She's the thread that forces Perrin to act better (in some cases) and with her being with him in Two Rivers the stakes are much higher. Rhuidean and everything in there is just jaw-dropping. It was written really well and the execution was brilliant. Elayne's and Nynaeve's story was good but compare it to other plotlines it felt just like "two angry women not speaking together and they have to work together and remember they should be friends" Thank you that you're doing it spoilers-just-for-one-book. I'm now currently reading Lot of Chaos and I still hope that I'll manage to be always one book up ahead of these reviews! I enjoy them very much. Nevertheless looking forward to Fires of Heaven :)
Only one time I actually teared up reading this series... the scene where perrin goes back to save the two rivers and even had the women and children rallied to help fight the trolocs off.
I feel like Egwene and Aviendha hardly interact in this particular book (not sure about future books - just finished SR yesterday). They are more or less adjacent to one another throughout the whole time in the Aiel Waste.
I know yours is bigger but ours came first... So many ways to read that. But to be real, they're both mine... These books are too enjoyable to be binary about that ish... EDIT: my favourite book from the early party of the series. Epic storyline and the Rhuidean section blew my tiny little mind when I read it all those years ago.
Good relationships in the wheel of time? Just finished book 4, and there hasn’t been a single well set up relationship in the entire story so far. It’s always just “yeah they know each other, they’ve been traveling togeth- aaaand now they’re hopelessly in love and nothing will ever tear them apart”
The shadow rising has the two best WOT chapters in, road to the spear, and the dedicated. When this book was out the big white book had no been released. This was an intimate look into the age of legends and the breaking of the world. I do not think that you gave these two chapters their just desserts so to speak.
I just finished my re-listen to this book a couple days ago and it struck me how much better it was than all its predecessors, for much of the reasons you gave. If memory serves, the books are pretty much hit and miss after this til about book 10 or so. we'll see if that still holds true for me in the second run through.
I really like this group while they were together. This whole trip help start Nynaeve's character become a lot more tolerable. Not that I didn't like her, but you really got to see more of her perspective from here and how Elayne helped push her into a better person and seeing just outside small town ideals.
I don't get why people hate Faile. Dynamics of Faile and Perrin made sense to me in this book. Clash of 2 highly subborn people at the beginning finally ends up with both accepting each other for who they are.
I don't understand why you would call women fighting over men "sexist", it happens a lot irl ( also as frisa mentions below, pretty common among men as well )
I think he's mentioning those two things separately, especially because Rand is only the love interest of one of them. Basically just saying that Egwene and Aviendha's friendship is deeper or more meaningful than JUST their gripes about men - which is a common trope.
@@adrianmarks8841 "there's no fighting over men, none of that sexist bullshit" is what he said. And it makes no sense. He doesn't say that the lack of a common love interest makes their friendship more meaningful, just that it would be sexist if there was one
You know what? i would love to hear another version of your GOAT author video, except with your thoughts on the top 5-10 most influential authors alive today, maybe Greatest of MODERN TIMES, living within the last 5-10 years. I feel like thats more interesting, to know the greatest of all time is fairly easy. Shakespeare survived 500 years, and Tolkien 70. To decide on a modern author is really difficult and up for debate and I would love to hear that from you. Maybe Ill do one myself from my own booktube (Im Nervith, in case you didnt recognize.)
I liked book four, but I feel that the payoff from this isn't fully realized until book 6, Lord of Chaos. My favorite part of book 6 has to be when Egwene says, "I have toh."
The tortoise and the hare, but the tortoise isn't wise, just lucky; and the hare isn't over-confident, it's bored. Love a lot about this world and the characters, but this book drifts into self-mockery, rather than just not taking yourself too seriously.
Faile is a _fantastic_ character. Too bad if some _Harry Potter_ readers were expecting a 'Snow White' or 'Betty Crocker' type character and their brains could not adjust to something different.
The Shadow Rising is where I really started to like Rand as a character. The first three books I struggled to see what his motives as a character were. Rand kind of came off like a Mary Sue character, except for when he was sometimes “stubborn”. In The Shadow Rising he turns that stubbornness into a fully realized leadership that I really enjoyed!
For me, I still don't like Rand at all. I feel that the best character in this book for me would be Perrin, mat is my favorite too, but this book does not give it as much attention as in the previous one, which in itself was the most irregular plot.
@@mauriciovillagran1004 Fair enough, I think the Wheel of Time characters kind of walk the line between relatable modern protagonists and the archetypal classical protagonist. So there’s always gonna be some elements to certain characters that feel unrelatable. Perrin was my favorite character in the first 3 books but I really don’t enjoy Faile, his love interest, so he’s dropped in my rankings. As far as characters who get chapters written from their perspective I like Rand, Matt, and Nyneve pretty much equally.
I enjoyed this book. I don't like the romance in any of the four books I have read so far and I can't stand Faile. Thought it was so predictable how she would show up when she did. Plus she is just so very annoying. I am already also tired of every female character falling in love with Rand, enough already. Did I say I didn't like the romance? All that aside it was a good solid book I enjoyed, I must have as I am grabbing the next book in the series now.
I have a problem with this book. Nyneave and her storyline is filled with insignificant descriptions of things, and made reading it such a pain. I think Robert Jordan was just trying to lengthen her chapters with this.
@@kevinwarden2450 It might seem shocking, especially since there were great things that happened in Winter's Heart, such as the cleansing of Saidin, and Mat's (my favorite character) return to the series, but I got really bored during most of Winter's Heart. Perrin's story is at the all time most boring point, and Elayne's quest for power is a bit dull as the main focus of the plot. Perrin hunts for Faile and pretty much gets nowhere; most of that development happens in Crossroads then with the eventual payoff in knife of dreams. Elayne's hunt for the throne is intriguing, but since it tries to carry the novel many of the moments are a few people sitting in a room, sipping wine, and giving expository reports. In Crossroads, Mat and Tuon's relationship develops, Perrin's story actually has interesting plot points, and the White tower conflict becomes one of the best plotlines of the story. The fact that these two books have many simultaneous events tells me that they were originally meant as one novel, possibly also meant to be combined with knife of dreams. They are both underwhelming, but I believe Crossroads succeeds better in having an interesting story structure.
@@Ben-xj2rf Well, put that way, you make good points! I actually lump WH and Crossroads in together, only Winter's Heart is the one with Rand in Far Madding and an actual ending before the last 2 pages. Other than that I couldn't say who did what in which book, and so prefer WH because of the Rand stuff. :)
@@kevinwarden2450 You are right that WH is the one with an actual ending. I wish the publishing company allowed him to write those as one novel and write about 1500 pages. It wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, fantasy fans read books that long all the time, and especially fans of epic fantasy.
I have 300 pages left of TSR and not quite sure how I feel about it. Usually the ending of a wot book makes the rest of the book so much better. I liked the aiel history and several other parts but I'm still not feeling the whole best book in the series yet hopefully the last 300 pages change my mind. Not that I'm not enjoying it though.
Joshua Moore I couldn’t finish this one, when pug breaks out of slavery and starts studying I gave up. I think if I read it as a teen I would’ve loved it but alas I did not.
The point in the series where the comedy of errors element is confirmed and solidified. So conflicted about this. 3000 yrs, plus or minus, of aes sedai and when the fight really comes they have exactly one competent practitioner who is effective and understands the scope and stakes. The forsaken have to be nerfed by in-fighting or arrogance, etc., so much just to let the story ride. It's just so unsatisfying. You're cringing, white-knuckling the whole way because it's just too absurd. The wheel phones in the weave like a drunk frat boy the night before the term paper is due and has to bat a thousand with every stitch chapter after chapter from waaaaay behind the curve. It's asking too much.
The female characters except for Min were insufferable childish caricatures in this book, IMO. The Tower dragged and so did the waste at times, but the turns and third act were excellent. So far in the series, great hunt is still my favorite.
No way! Min was built up to have this amazing power, but after she met Rand, she lost all agency as a person, and spent the rest of all the books obsessed with Rand. Avi had an attitude problem, became a Wise One,helped with the bowl of winds and fought in the Last Battle. Clearly Avi is the best.
@@jessi4894 Okay, as far as the LB goes, Min did more than Avi. Alright, maybe not "did more" but she did something that was more important. She found the Graendal hiding among the Seanchan and took out the Shadow's spy among the Seanchan ranks, which allowed the Seanchan to rejoin the fight. And she lost all agency? Arguably, she did more to help the world than Elayne and Aviendha put together. She was there for Rand, the most powerful channeller alive who was slowly going insane, when he had no one else. When he suspected EVERYONE, even Nynaeve to some extent, he found comfort with Min. Whereas all Aviendha did with Rand was shout at him, or curse at him, or describe Elayne in the nude. Yes, yes, Avi helped out with the Bowl of the Winds. Don't get me wrong, that was important. I'm not saying Min was more important than Avi (though that argument could be made, I'm not making it). I'm saying that personality-wise, Min is 10x better than Avi. Min is kind and caring, she's self-sacrificing, she's willing to look at things from other perspectives. Avi is pretty much "my way or the high way". I'm not complaining about how she was written. That's actually pretty realistic, a lot of people irl are like that. But I hate people like that irl too.
It is 500 pages too long of a book! I am half way thru it and while there are some good parts the book is over long. I enjoyed the first 3 books of the Wheel of Time but having rough time finishing over 900 page book.
Egwene is NOT immersing herself in Aiel culture, she's just wearing the clothes in imitation of the Wise Ones. She never has anything about her that's got to do with the Aiel. She mentally retcons that stuff, but she clashes with the culture up until the end. Her friendship with Aviendha is pretty useless too. She never really gets Aviendha, never understands her or what's driving her. Aviendha doesn't really understand her, either. Her one analysis of Egwene's character is that Egwene is following ji'e'toh in doing what the Wise Ones say...but Egwene herself notes that she's incorrect. For Egwene, it's the threat of no more teaching that keeps her in line, but Aiel don't understand this sort of priority. For them, you do what you need to do and what other people do does not matter, unless their actions affect your honor or toh. Egwene is only eager to learn about things that bring her power, as we see when she gets all twitchy about Moiraine's questions of the Wise Ones on Chaendar. Rand & Elayne both get ji'e'toh and the Aiel much better, probably because they genuinely love Aviendha, not just being the only people of a similar age in close proximity.
Shadow Rising was the worst book in WoT I've read so far. (I just started LoC.) Perrin's plotline was fantastic, and the Breaking of the Tower gets pretty good near the end. Everything else was boring af. Rhuidean is a shitty acid trip, and Tanchico can't say much better.
I know i’m a year late to responding but i completely agree! My favourite part near the end was the breaking of the tower but the whole Tear and then Aiel plot line was SO boring.
This is my first time reading the Wheel of Time. I'm on The Shadow Rising up to chapter 21 and I have to say that the female characters in this book and the first three books are incredibly annoying. Robert Jordan wrote Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, even Moiraine, to a lesser extent, were catty, manipulative, self-involved, snarky, haughty and, forgive me for saying it, but just bitches. Did he not like women. He portrays them in the worst light. I'm finding them tiresome at best. I'll continue on because the story is good but I can see me putting down this book if these characters don't develop out of their obvious limitations.
This guy must read pretty shitty fantasys. And doesn't now like ANY food stories in general. And how you can say such things as "developed", when all RJ does is ripping off existing material? On plots: - none cared any more of the White Tower, so why spend more time with it? - Perrin's plot COULD have been something good, it ended up being a convoluted mess, obviously lacking editorial work, pissing the reader5 off, if payed half you attention as bare minimum. Of course this plot is just a LotR ripoff. - the Mat/rand "plot" if you want to call it amazing, attribute that to DUNE, because the whole plotline is just a ripoff of THAT. At least you are right on Mat: he could be written out. His sole purpose, marked in this volume, is to LEGITIMZE THE NAZIS here. Because the nazis here and in the real life are/were christians, therefor ultimately ARE THE GOOD GUYS ACCORDING TO ROBERT JORDAN. - like half a dozen female is fighting for Rand at this point, so yes, this is sexist bullshit, objectifying men, or more like self-inster kink-fantasy from the writer. - it is a 1,300 pages book. Fuck your comments on the speed.
Took over 30 minutes after publishing for RUclips to put this in anyone’s feed! UGH!
Daniel Greene Wait, RUclips is being difficult!? 😂
3 hours later and it still does not show up in mine... I just happened to check on your channel
RUclips is a big meanie head. It is known.
Didn't end up in my feed. I had to go to your channel to see if you put up a video. I always check every channel to make sure o don't miss anything and sure enough, your video wasn't on my main feed.
Still not in my feed
One of my favorite "moments" in the series is when Rand sees his family history and how it was written
yup like how the Forsaken had connection to his family events.
Didn't properly understand the last flashback in it . But yeah those chapters were amazing to read
I actually found Shadow Rising to be middle of the road. I am not enamored by Jordan's prose and storytelling in general but the plot and plot ideas tend to be the things that keep me interested. The flashback to Rand's Aiel family history was the absolute highlight of the book (the ending had flashes of quality too), I can't say enough good about it. Really helped to make me care more about the present. There was also more pathos and emotional power there than in the story bookending the flash back, in my humble opinion. I want to finish the series despite to see where it ends and what development occurs with the characters.
Always odd hearing "Roy-dee-on". I went the whole books reading "Roo-id-ee-an" XD
I always pronounced it "RYE-dee-un" when I read it in the 90s.
@@Siansonea That one makes sense too! :)
Same
Me too
Same lol
One of the best in the series, Rand's journey in Rhudean was epic.
I thought it was a drag, not sure why.
This is the book that really got me into the series. I thought eye of the world had some interesting ideas, I thought the great hunt expanded the world pretty well and I thought the dragon reborn did a great job at fleshing out side characters. The shadow rising was the first book that brought it all together for me and made me realize this series really was worth going through.
Same
I loved this book, just finished it actually. Honestly wasn’t a huge fan of the tower sequence, not that I didn’t like it, it’s just that I didn’t really feel that it was very impactful. Also I’m a bit confused as to why the Amyrlin was so easily freed, felt off to me. Other than that, it was great. The Aiel history sequence has got to be the coolest thing I’ve ever read; that was perhaps the most genius way to deliver that information, going backwards in time like that, especially with it going back to the age of legends and delivering way more than just Aiel history.
My favorite book in the series. Great review Daniel. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Rhuidean scenes with Rand. It gets better everytime I read it and this is Perrin's best plotline (not that his others suck).
A kitty sleeping in your lap is NEVER a detriment to a video because cats are gods!
This book is when I feel the wheel of Time becomes it's own name, has it's own sense and feel. I agree 💯💯💯
Perrin's storyline is my favorite part of this book, even though all the others are also epic in scope. Maybe it IS because of that, Perrin's feels a bit more... personal? I have no real issues with Perrin and Faile really. Is the Saldaean way of partnership crazy and a bit off from our own. Yes. Is it crazy? Yeees? But it is what it is in the books and I can accept that. There are worse people out there (Couch*Seanchan*couch*Sharans*couch). ;-)
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
Well, I guess we have different opinions Daniel but that is fine. I lean more towards Min as the "best" of the three, she certainly have the most screen time overall throughout the series and is a big reason for why Rand does not go over the top. When Rand gets briefly caught in the male a'dam and is forced to choke Min I was on the edge of my seat. I still do now when I get to that point even when I know the outcome. (OMG, Rand wields the True Power! WTF, this is bad! Only... not?)
But speaking of Aviendha. The WoT Companion still lists her as having Rand's quadruplets or whatever but that means that is with old Moridin's body I assume? Unless their last meeting before the Last Battle starts for realsies made her preggers? Does not matter much, it is still Rand INSIDE and all three women feels that through the bond. I think that all of them will be with him again in time once the dust settles, though for one I assume he has to visit Seanchan if Min is still now a noble of that nation. Unless they stay in their occupied part of Randland for a while afterwards, the old Seanchan being in ruins from civil war.
It is a wonder why Min is not pregnant too with all the time they spent together. It is not said if she bears any children anywhere though. Oh well. At least in my headcanon they all meet again with time, though probably not at the SAME time.
Just finished the book and I have to say, so far, it has the best climax of the series! Starting book 5 tomorrow and I can’t wait to see how crazy the series gets from here!
Just finished The Shadow Rising on my first read through of the series. It is my favourite so far, books 1&2 I enjoyed but 3&4 have hooked me entirely. One thing I absolutely loved that you touched on was the expansion of scope and epicness of the story. I think this also worked really well with Perrin’s plotline, almost as if the broadening of scope the series as a whole is experiencing magnified the intimacy of Perrin’s story in two rivers. Also loving the increasing Mat/Odin parallels. Great book, great review, can’t wait to get into the Fires of Heaven.
I really enjoyed this book. (Finished last night). I think Dragon Reborn was a bit more fun, but this was right up there. I think my reward for finishing each book is watching Daniels review after.
In sweden they had the bad habit of splitting each book into 2 parts before publishing. I can tell you not much happen "book 7" (i.e. first half) and I've always considered it one of the worst book in the series, whereas I loved the second part. Considering them as a whole (as they should be) it makes more sense :)
This just became my favorite of the series after reading the first 4. SO MUCH HAPPENED! This book was nuts.
so i just finished this via audiobook. i think faile and perrin are adorable.
SPOILER:
also my heart fkn dropped when that thing happened with the white tower
Love this RUclips series, am watching all ur videos as I go through the books
For me, Perrin"s two river plot was the best part of this book. I was really disappointed about his disappearance in the next few books. I would disagree about relationships in WoT though, I don't think relationships were the strong point of Robert Jorden. But may I am missing some of them I have read only eight books I stopped halfway through ninth book. I know I will complete them but don't know when.
Perrin was my favourite character of the three friends. It just occurred to me that my lossing interest in the series does start to drop as Perrin's story becomes less interesting
the whole meet with the prophet then faile is kidnapped thing lasted way too long, and I lost interest pretty quickly in Perrin's storyline.
Just finished this book, quarantine sucks but honestly I’m flying through books already. I might start Fires of heaven next, I have such a long list of books to get through though and I’ve already started Slow regard for silent things so we’ll see how that goes today.
Keeping in mind I (only) finished book 9, what are the good romances in WoT? Nynaeve&Lan is one, maybe Rand&Min (mostly because Min is awesome). But really, I don't see any other so far
So far in my first time reading the series, this is THE BOOK. I'm enjoying learning about the Aeil culture. What is so striking is the similarity between Tower training and the Wises one training. Obviously these Wise Ones were at one time Aes Sedai
I finished Shadow Rising on Christmas eve for the first time and it was a joy, that was my present. I completely agree with you. Perrin's story is great. I think that Faile serves a good purpose here. She's the thread that forces Perrin to act better (in some cases) and with her being with him in Two Rivers the stakes are much higher. Rhuidean and everything in there is just jaw-dropping. It was written really well and the execution was brilliant. Elayne's and Nynaeve's story was good but compare it to other plotlines it felt just like "two angry women not speaking together and they have to work together and remember they should be friends"
Thank you that you're doing it spoilers-just-for-one-book. I'm now currently reading Lot of Chaos and I still hope that I'll manage to be always one book up ahead of these reviews! I enjoy them very much. Nevertheless looking forward to Fires of Heaven :)
Only one time I actually teared up reading this series... the scene where perrin goes back to save the two rivers and even had the women and children rallied to help fight the trolocs off.
I feel like Egwene and Aviendha hardly interact in this particular book (not sure about future books - just finished SR yesterday). They are more or less adjacent to one another throughout the whole time in the Aiel Waste.
Pips just keeps raising the game! Working in some lap warmer skills. Much like the Shadow Rising...keeping on raising the bar!
I know yours is bigger but ours came first... So many ways to read that. But to be real, they're both mine... These books are too enjoyable to be binary about that ish...
EDIT: my favourite book from the early party of the series. Epic storyline and the Rhuidean section blew my tiny little mind when I read it all those years ago.
WARNING. This video's spoiler section is not just for BOOK 4. Mild spoilers for THE WHOLE SERIES ahead.
Good relationships in the wheel of time? Just finished book 4, and there hasn’t been a single well set up relationship in the entire story so far. It’s always just “yeah they know each other, they’ve been traveling togeth- aaaand now they’re hopelessly in love and nothing will ever tear them apart”
The shadow rising has the two best WOT chapters in, road to the spear, and the dedicated. When this book was out the big white book had no been released. This was an intimate look into the age of legends and the breaking of the world. I do not think that you gave these two chapters their just desserts so to speak.
"Cringey moments in the relationship..." you just defined reality
I just finished my re-listen to this book a couple days ago and it struck me how much better it was than all its predecessors, for much of the reasons you gave. If memory serves, the books are pretty much hit and miss after this til about book 10 or so. we'll see if that still holds true for me in the second run through.
No mention of Elayne, Nynaeve, Thom and Juilin in Tanchico?
Didn’t want to make a 30 minute video. Things will always hit the cutting floor :/ want the raw footage? Lol
Oof yeah
@@DanielGreeneReviews I just really like the scene where Elayne gets drunk and tells to Nynaeve "Berelain isn't my mother after all"
I really like this group while they were together. This whole trip help start Nynaeve's character become a lot more tolerable. Not that I didn't like her, but you really got to see more of her perspective from here and how Elayne helped push her into a better person and seeing just outside small town ideals.
Because those chapters were rubbish
I've read 6 of WoT and The Shadow Rising is still my favourite so far
I don't get why people hate Faile. Dynamics of Faile and Perrin made sense to me in this book. Clash of 2 highly subborn people at the beginning finally ends up with both accepting each other for who they are.
I don't understand why you would call women fighting over men "sexist", it happens a lot irl ( also as frisa mentions below, pretty common among men as well )
Women fighting over men and men fighting over women are both pretty realistic if you ask me.
indeed
I think he's mentioning those two things separately, especially because Rand is only the love interest of one of them. Basically just saying that Egwene and Aviendha's friendship is deeper or more meaningful than JUST their gripes about men - which is a common trope.
Agreed. It's probably just his personal political views seeping into his video.
@@adrianmarks8841 "there's no fighting over men, none of that sexist bullshit" is what he said. And it makes no sense. He doesn't say that the lack of a common love interest makes their friendship more meaningful, just that it would be sexist if there was one
You know what? i would love to hear another version of your GOAT author video, except with your thoughts on the top 5-10 most influential authors alive today, maybe Greatest of MODERN TIMES, living within the last 5-10 years. I feel like thats more interesting, to know the greatest of all time is fairly easy. Shakespeare survived 500 years, and Tolkien 70. To decide on a modern author is really difficult and up for debate and I would love to hear that from you. Maybe Ill do one myself from my own booktube (Im Nervith, in case you didnt recognize.)
mid FOH, i think Faile has been a really nice part so far
this is perfect timing. i literally just finished this audio book a few hours ago. it is definitely my favorite so far. great video man!
Just finished reading this TODAY! I love this one. Great review :)
I’m almost on book 6 and so far book 3 was my favorite
I liked book four, but I feel that the payoff from this isn't fully realized until book 6, Lord of Chaos. My favorite part of book 6 has to be when Egwene says, "I have toh."
From that point on the books and the dragons honor a carried by the maidens of the speer.
The tortoise and the hare, but the tortoise isn't wise, just lucky; and the hare isn't over-confident, it's bored. Love a lot about this world and the characters, but this book drifts into self-mockery, rather than just not taking yourself too seriously.
Faile is a _fantastic_ character.
Too bad if some _Harry Potter_ readers were expecting a 'Snow White' or 'Betty Crocker' type character and their brains could not adjust to something different.
i wasn't aware that HP fans had brains
The Shadow Rising is where I really started to like Rand as a character. The first three books I struggled to see what his motives as a character were. Rand kind of came off like a Mary Sue character, except for when he was sometimes “stubborn”. In The Shadow Rising he turns that stubbornness into a fully realized leadership that I really enjoyed!
For me, I still don't like Rand at all. I feel that the best character in this book for me would be Perrin, mat is my favorite too, but this book does not give it as much attention as in the previous one, which in itself was the most irregular plot.
@@mauriciovillagran1004 Fair enough, I think the Wheel of Time characters kind of walk the line between relatable modern protagonists and the archetypal classical protagonist. So there’s always gonna be some elements to certain characters that feel unrelatable. Perrin was my favorite character in the first 3 books but I really don’t enjoy Faile, his love interest, so he’s dropped in my rankings. As far as characters who get chapters written from their perspective I like Rand, Matt, and Nyneve pretty much equally.
@@punkguitar4974 i agree with that, i don't like faile at all.
I love Faile
Rhuideon is one of my favourite stories
Brilliant review! 👍
The aiel waste stuffwas extremely confusing and wayyy too many names but this book was solid and worth it
People have to remember that Perrin and Faile ate teenagers entering into their first relationship.
@Adam Cosper nothing brings people together like a dark secret.
To think, how one spelling mistake can turn lovers to cannibals...
@@ultantuffy1194 it happens to the best of us.
Easily the best book in the series
I enjoyed this book. I don't like the romance in any of the four books I have read so far and I can't stand Faile. Thought it was so predictable how she would show up when she did. Plus she is just so very annoying. I am already also tired of every female character falling in love with Rand, enough already. Did I say I didn't like the romance? All that aside it was a good solid book I enjoyed, I must have as I am grabbing the next book in the series now.
Book 4 is my second favorite by far
I have a problem with this book. Nyneave and her storyline is filled with insignificant descriptions of things, and made reading it such a pain. I think Robert Jordan was just trying to lengthen her chapters with this.
.....I don't know what your favorite one is!
Your least favorite: CROSSROADS
crossroads was better than winter's heart.
@@Ben-xj2rf Interesting! Why do you say that?
@@kevinwarden2450 It might seem shocking, especially since there were great things that happened in Winter's Heart, such as the cleansing of Saidin, and Mat's (my favorite character) return to the series, but I got really bored during most of Winter's Heart. Perrin's story is at the all time most boring point, and Elayne's quest for power is a bit dull as the main focus of the plot. Perrin hunts for Faile and pretty much gets nowhere; most of that development happens in Crossroads then with the eventual payoff in knife of dreams. Elayne's hunt for the throne is intriguing, but since it tries to carry the novel many of the moments are a few people sitting in a room, sipping wine, and giving expository reports.
In Crossroads, Mat and Tuon's relationship develops, Perrin's story actually has interesting plot points, and the White tower conflict becomes one of the best plotlines of the story.
The fact that these two books have many simultaneous events tells me that they were originally meant as one novel, possibly also meant to be combined with knife of dreams. They are both underwhelming, but I believe Crossroads succeeds better in having an interesting story structure.
@@Ben-xj2rf Well, put that way, you make good points! I actually lump WH and Crossroads in together, only Winter's Heart is the one with Rand in Far Madding and an actual ending before the last 2 pages. Other than that I couldn't say who did what in which book, and so prefer WH because of the Rand stuff. :)
@@kevinwarden2450 You are right that WH is the one with an actual ending. I wish the publishing company allowed him to write those as one novel and write about 1500 pages. It wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, fantasy fans read books that long all the time, and especially fans of epic fantasy.
I don't like how he just randomly knows how to summon a portal all of a sudden lol
This was my favorite so far.
I have 300 pages left of TSR and not quite sure how I feel about it. Usually the ending of a wot book makes the rest of the book so much better. I liked the aiel history and several other parts but I'm still not feeling the whole best book in the series yet hopefully the last 300 pages change my mind. Not that I'm not enjoying it though.
TSR is my favorite of the series.
Dan where’d you get your bookshelf??
I realize this is from two years ago. My question still stands
Daniel Greene and WOT name a better duo
How much spoilers are there in this video for books > 4?
The first portion is spoiler free, then he says spoiler alert, and continues with a spoiler filled review.
This book actually kinda put me off of wheel of time. Having to take a decent break from the series before I can go back to it.
We came first.. But yours is bigger?
I HATE the fact that they didn’t keep these sexy ebook artwork and size for the paperback books that they brought out 🤦♂️
Magician by Raymond Feist 1983 battle between worlds
Joshua Moore I couldn’t finish this one, when pug breaks out of slavery and starts studying I gave up. I think if I read it as a teen I would’ve loved it but alas I did not.
Dope video
Forget Malazan, what about Tolkien, or Robert Howard's Hyperborian Age?
My boy Mat, is a black man from the south.
The point in the series where the comedy of errors element is confirmed and solidified. So conflicted about this. 3000 yrs, plus or minus, of aes sedai and when the fight really comes they have exactly one competent practitioner who is effective and understands the scope and stakes. The forsaken have to be nerfed by in-fighting or arrogance, etc., so much just to let the story ride. It's just so unsatisfying. You're cringing, white-knuckling the whole way because it's just too absurd. The wheel phones in the weave like a drunk frat boy the night before the term paper is due and has to bat a thousand with every stitch chapter after chapter from waaaaay behind the curve. It's asking too much.
The female characters except for Min were insufferable childish caricatures in this book, IMO. The Tower dragged and so did the waste at times, but the turns and third act were excellent. So far in the series, great hunt is still my favorite.
Egwene is Lawrence of Arabia.
I will fight you for thinking Avi is better than Min.
preach buddy
Agree, I'll watch the fight
I'm on your side, @frisa96
No way! Min was built up to have this amazing power, but after she met Rand, she lost all agency as a person, and spent the rest of all the books obsessed with Rand. Avi had an attitude problem, became a Wise One,helped with the bowl of winds and fought in the Last Battle. Clearly Avi is the best.
@@jessi4894 Okay, as far as the LB goes, Min did more than Avi. Alright, maybe not "did more" but she did something that was more important. She found the Graendal hiding among the Seanchan and took out the Shadow's spy among the Seanchan ranks, which allowed the Seanchan to rejoin the fight.
And she lost all agency? Arguably, she did more to help the world than Elayne and Aviendha put together. She was there for Rand, the most powerful channeller alive who was slowly going insane, when he had no one else. When he suspected EVERYONE, even Nynaeve to some extent, he found comfort with Min. Whereas all Aviendha did with Rand was shout at him, or curse at him, or describe Elayne in the nude.
Yes, yes, Avi helped out with the Bowl of the Winds. Don't get me wrong, that was important. I'm not saying Min was more important than Avi (though that argument could be made, I'm not making it). I'm saying that personality-wise, Min is 10x better than Avi. Min is kind and caring, she's self-sacrificing, she's willing to look at things from other perspectives.
Avi is pretty much "my way or the high way". I'm not complaining about how she was written. That's actually pretty realistic, a lot of people irl are like that. But I hate people like that irl too.
It is 500 pages too long of a book! I am half way thru it and while there are some good parts the book is over long. I enjoyed the first 3 books of the Wheel of Time but having rough time finishing over 900 page book.
what's your cat's name?
Egwene is NOT immersing herself in Aiel culture, she's just wearing the clothes in imitation of the Wise Ones. She never has anything about her that's got to do with the Aiel. She mentally retcons that stuff, but she clashes with the culture up until the end. Her friendship with Aviendha is pretty useless too. She never really gets Aviendha, never understands her or what's driving her. Aviendha doesn't really understand her, either. Her one analysis of Egwene's character is that Egwene is following ji'e'toh in doing what the Wise Ones say...but Egwene herself notes that she's incorrect. For Egwene, it's the threat of no more teaching that keeps her in line, but Aiel don't understand this sort of priority. For them, you do what you need to do and what other people do does not matter, unless their actions affect your honor or toh. Egwene is only eager to learn about things that bring her power, as we see when she gets all twitchy about Moiraine's questions of the Wise Ones on Chaendar. Rand & Elayne both get ji'e'toh and the Aiel much better, probably because they genuinely love Aviendha, not just being the only people of a similar age in close proximity.
Can I read it without reading the other books?
Of course. However, placed in context with the other books, the writing shines more so.
fredrick lloyd thanks
Shadow Rising was the worst book in WoT I've read so far. (I just started LoC.) Perrin's plotline was fantastic, and the Breaking of the Tower gets pretty good near the end. Everything else was boring af. Rhuidean is a shitty acid trip, and Tanchico can't say much better.
I know i’m a year late to responding but i completely agree! My favourite part near the end was the breaking of the tower but the whole Tear and then Aiel plot line was SO boring.
Lord of chaos is the best followed by shadow rising
lol lord of the rings in my opinion has more detail in world building
This is my first time reading the Wheel of Time. I'm on The Shadow Rising up to chapter 21 and I have to say that the female characters in this book and the first three books are incredibly annoying. Robert Jordan wrote Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, even Moiraine, to a lesser extent, were catty, manipulative, self-involved, snarky, haughty and, forgive me for saying it, but just bitches. Did he not like women. He portrays them in the worst light. I'm finding them tiresome at best. I'll continue on because the story is good but I can see me putting down this book if these characters don't develop out of their obvious limitations.
in soviet russia shadow rises you
Damn, I guess I didn't pick up that Avienda was supposed to be a love interest for Rand from this book 🤣
Yeah it felt like a spoiler, I’m reading wot 5 and just now I see potential for relationship
I am not really a fan of this book, I preferred the dragon reborn
Don't know if it counts, but Ed Greenwood building the Forgotten Realms, is world building for all his life
So weel of time's world is smaller and has less stamina because it came first
Whenever I hear the name Seanchan it sounds like a hardcore 4chan memer
But Malazan os better!!!
Just kidding
But not haha
You should really finish Malazan I think you would really like it
This guy must read pretty shitty fantasys. And doesn't now like ANY food stories in general.
And how you can say such things as "developed", when all RJ does is ripping off existing material?
On plots:
- none cared any more of the White Tower, so why spend more time with it?
- Perrin's plot COULD have been something good, it ended up being a convoluted mess, obviously lacking editorial work, pissing the reader5 off, if payed half you attention as bare minimum.
Of course this plot is just a LotR ripoff.
- the Mat/rand "plot" if you want to call it amazing, attribute that to DUNE, because the whole plotline is just a ripoff of THAT.
At least you are right on Mat: he could be written out. His sole purpose, marked in this volume, is to LEGITIMZE THE NAZIS here. Because the nazis here and in the real life are/were christians, therefor ultimately ARE THE GOOD GUYS ACCORDING TO ROBERT JORDAN.
- like half a dozen female is fighting for Rand at this point, so yes, this is sexist bullshit, objectifying men, or more like self-inster kink-fantasy from the writer.
- it is a 1,300 pages book. Fuck your comments on the speed.
I honestly think this book is severely overrated