I think this wouldn't even be such a controversial question if the books focused on telling sensible and coherent stories that aren't completely batshit insane.
My good sir, I think you are confused Fazbear Frights with Tales. I get why people confuse the two, they are told through the similar method. (3 stories, then an epoluge) but that kind of batshit craziness in Frights is actually dialed way back in Tales. To the point that Ruin gave crazier ideas than Tales ever did.
@@moonknightanimations1251 Under construction....exist Sorry don't want to offend you, i think TFTP may be less crazy, but still share this weirdness nonetheless
Here is something I just thought about. William is canon to both the books and games, but is very different Henry is canon to both the books and games, but is very different Elizabeth is canon to both the books and games, but is very different Charlie is canon to both the books and games, but is very different The Fnaf 1 location and Circus Babys Pizza world are canon to both the books and games, but are very different The MCI is canon to both the books and games, but is very different Specific characters are canon to both the books and games, but are very different The Pizzaplex is canon to both the books and games, but is very different. So, thusly, The Mimic is canon to both the books and games, but is very different. People need to stop using the books as a Fnaf bible.
I think part of the issue is that someone who isn’t well versed at the difference between a bassist and a guitar would at first glance think they are the same. Maybe the guy who said that line didn’t know the difference between a guitar and a bass.
I will say that I think the idea that Scott, Steel Wool and Scholastic probably have communication issues is probably pretty correct with how the books are going. I think your take on that is pretty spot on
I now need Helpi being replaced with Tiger Rock in my life. It's not only an infinitely better choice like the video says but Tiger Rock has the perk of canonically saying "Ya feel me?" making him not only a peak, slightly questionable, guide for Ruin but also a peak character in fiction.
I doubt we'll get an answer to this anytime soon since The Mimic existing at minimum implies parts of the books are canon, while others still blatantly contradict what we see in the games. Wish someone just came out and said yes or no, it'd be so much easier.
@@seabass-nj2qb bruh how am I supposed to give proof I can't post images. This information was given to us when the books were announced. It was the initial description of what the books would be about. "Taking place in the world of the newest games." Is the exact quote.
@@johnman8398 They don't have to be lmao. I know the whole Canon doesn't equal continuity thing, but like actually think about it beyond that one saying.
This is the one thing in this franchise I really do wish Scott commented on. Theorising has always been FNaF's selling point. It's fun to not know and speculate. Without cryptic lore storytelling this wouldn't be FNaF. But TalesGames is just so confusingly done, with so much unclear statements, people arguing over its canonicity just sucks all the fun out of the current plot. Heck, even the wretched MimicTrap theory is difficult to argue about, when we don't even know whether to use Mimic's own series as argumentd for/against it, or not.
Yeah I agree, it’s turned from a game that requires you to listen and look closely to grasp the hidden, yet mostly straightforward story, to one where depending on what you look at the story shifts and sometimes those shifts don’t matter and other times they change major elements. Additionally I feel like Scott has given up on that whole “clarify in the next game” philosophy
Theorizing about the story is fun; theorizing what is actually a part of that story and whatnot is ridiculous and frustrating. That’s something we need explicit confirmation on
@@Foracedlogbook is a canon book. Scott never addressed it but we can be fairly confident it is. So now that we have two book series that he also never properly addressed as being canon or not, nor can we be “confident” about like Frights, then yes this is where we need confirmation. He never said the books aren’t canon, he talked about Silver Eyes when ‘canonicity’ became a question, and by proxy we can rule out its sequels. Scott has never talked about Tales, and Frights he made only ambiguous statements prior to their release. Hence why further confirmation is necessary.
@@Foraced He outright said Frights were different from Charlie trilogy and only the latter is confirmed to be its own timeline. While it can be used as supporting evidence against StitchLineGames and/or TalesGames, it is not a deal breaker by itself.
I think the introduction of the books have really soured the series. I would've preferred it if they were just something optional for you to buy, but its lore relevancy is just a gimmick to get theorizers to buy more stuff in this franchise.
Another thing about Burntrap being the Mimic is that Vanny made Burntrap, and Vanny only exists because of Glitchtrap. People want to believe that Glitchtrap is also the Mimic, but that can't possibly be true. Because if Glitchtrap is the Mimic, then how was it able to possess Vanessa? When Glitchtrap was William, him possessing Vanessa made some kind of sense. It was one part William's soul and one part virus. It was outlandish, but it made sense in a sci-fi way. BUT if we're supposed to believe that Glitchtrap is the Mimic, then it no longer makes any sense. It's an AI mimicking William. How and why would it be able to exit the VR game and hijack Vanessa's brain through the VR headset? She's not a robot.
The mimic1 program in the books infects the animatronics and the pizzaplex (like glitchtrap does in the games) through a baobab tree (the same tree we see above the doors to the anomaly in princess quests and also was able to infect a person (the Monty within)
We are directly told how a VR character (who was influenced by the Mimic1 AI) can possess a person in "The Monty Within." We are literally told how Mimic could have possessed Vanessa if he is Glitchtrap. We still don't know how William could've possibly done that if he is Glitchtrap that doesn't go beyond just theorizing.
@@moonknightanimations1251 The Monty Within has a kid get electrocuted by an arcade cabinet which causes Monty to get into his brain. That’s not only ridiculous and unbelievable but also not the same thing as Glitchtrap possessing Vanessa. The headset isn’t electrocuting her as Glitchtrap’s possessing her. He’s literally uploading himself into her brain against her will. That made sense when it was William because he was a spirit turned virus. Souls possessing people is a common horror trope, but an AI uploading itself into someone’s brain doesn’t make any sense. Are we really supposed to just turn off our brains and accept these incredibly obvious plot holes?
The FNAF fandom has always been this toxic they literally sent Scott Cawthon and his family death threats on Twitter because of politics which is all people seem to care about nowadays.
@@Mandalore_ultimate >has always been this toxic God no, it was cringe early on, but it definitely started getting so some time before SB. SB however is what brought it to the surface... ...and that too.
One problem I have with Tale is WHERE THE HECK IS VANNY?!?! If Tales is canon then it would be the perfect place to use Vanny since she barely appeared in SB, the books could have been used to redeem that but instead nothing, unless I’m missing something she just doesn’t appear like at all. They could made stories about her hacking the animatronics, her killing off some of her coworkers because they’re starting to get suspicious of her, or even have a story about one of her child victims as they were trapped in the pizzaplex being hunted down by Vanny and all the animatronics (including Freddy since he wouldn’t be on safe mode), or even just having her work with the Mimic and helping it with whatever it has planned. I’m on the side that Tales isn’t canon, and that it takes place in a timeline were Vanessa was never taken over by the Mimic, and the Mimic chose to only control Gregory, or chose to use Gregory instead of Vanessa.
The reason she can’t be in Tales is presented in GGY. GGY tells the story of the therapy tapes and tells us that GGY is set around when the tapes were being made. Now while the tapes were made, Vanessa did not work at the Pizzaplex, she was working at the AR company. And GGY is one of the most recent stories in the Tales timeline, so that means every story before it doesn’t have Vanny because Vanessa doesn’t work there yet. So the reason Vanny doesn’t appear in any Tales is because she’s working at the AR company and hasn’t moved over to the Pizzaplex yet.
@doubletsquid5862 In Lally’s game one of the stories from the first Tales there’s a photo of one characters at the pizzaplex when they were a kid with that said character now being an adult during the events of Lally’s game, and through Help Wanted we know that the pizzaplex was being built around the time the Mimic took control of Vanessa and during the events of SB she looks fairly young like around her mid to late 20s. So they can make stories that are set long after Vanessa worked at the pizzaplex.
I think the Tales books exist in a parallel universe and aren't directly canon, but certain events are close enough that they happen in similar ways. For example, in Ruin, the Mimic was probably created in a similar way as in the Tales books, although it might not be exactly the same. This is sort of a salad bar approach, where it let's you pick out what you want and discard anything you don't.
I love this interpretation, because it means I get to keep my boys Edwin Murray and Tiger Rock to explain the Mimic and the wall code, and keep the entirety of Pressure to explain Burntrap, and throw out Under Construction and Animatronic Apocalypse because they’re dumb.
i think the best way to think about the books is the same way ryetoast thinks about them: that they're an alternate timeline with mostly separate characters that parallel characters we see in-game
(A quick disclaimer that I haven’t read any of the Tales books, I’m basing this on what I’ve heard other RUclipsrs say) In one of the books it was revealed that Sun was originally a performer and when the lights went out they would turn into moon (who was the villain) as part of the performance. Sun was then moved to the daycare but they couldn’t remove the evil Moon from his code so they put in generators to keep the lights on permanently. This doesn’t line up with the games as in Ruin not only does Cassie use a Faz-wrench (a widely available tool) to reboot them into Eclipse, thus removing the danger of Moon and the need for the lights. Furthermore the description on a moon plush (I think) reveals that Cassie used to sleep in the daycare, which wouldn’t be possible if the lights had to be on 24/7. The description being on a Moon related item also implies that Moon is somehow relevant to her sleeping which would imply the original assumption everyone had of him taking care of kids whilst they slept was true. TLDR: The daycare attendant’s backstory in the books doesn’t align with what’s shown in the games. This is a pretty big detail and is the focus of a whole story so you’d think someone would notice.
>which wouldn’t be possible if the lights had to be on 24/7. Damn, you dont sleep with the lights blasting your eyeholes constantly? Truly, Cassie is Built Bifferent :V But yeah
The technicians wanted to remove Moon completely from Sun, while Sun just wanted the two halves fused together, which wouldn't be just Sun like the technicians wanted, so it's a different situation. Also, Moon likely wasn't as aggressive as he is in Security Breach before he was infected by the same virus as the other animatronics.
@@ender01o66 She specifically states that she never slept as well as she did when she was in the daycare so it’s unlikely she was just daydreaming. Also the area inside the castle that isn’t brightly lit up is quite limited and is mostly along the stair and walkways where other kids would be running along. Also there’s the music.
@@ender01o66 1) Yeah but merging the two together still gives the desired effect of removing the “evil” Moon whilst keeping the caring one to take care of the kids. There’s nothing that sun could do that Eclipse couldn’t handle (If anything Eclipse is better since he’s less aggressive). Plus simply rebooting would be significantly easier, cheaper and safer than setting up multiple generators inside the play structure and hoping no child messes with them. There’s really no clear reason to not just reboot them. 2) I know which is one of the reasons I think Moon was likely supposed to take care of the kids whilst they slept, hence Cassie reminiscing about her sleep when she sees a Moon plush and Moon’s design generally hinting towards themes of sleep like with the hat.
What confuses me is how people understood that the two previous book series were meant to just be parallels for the games, but then suddenly, a huge part of the Fandom just seemed to arbitrarily decide that the tales books are meant to be 100% in the continuity of the games. I just don't really get it.
There is a theory that Frights is canon, though I do not believe those. Tales only really works as a prequel. Frights has a pretty conclusive beginning, middle, and end. But with Tales it is a forgone conclusion that Mimic will survive the epilogues.
It was not arbitrarly decided, tales old description was that it happened in the world of the newest games. Scholastic further confirmed that this was changed for purely marketing reasons and that such descriptions were given to them,so it's not just something they made up. All of this, plus the various similarities between tales and the games, shows that tales is in the games.
@@ryguy1928 bcs scholastic said it happes in the world of the newest games. Really the only thing that stops people from believing in TalesGames is that they are still hang on the trilogy mindset; however, this is not the trilogy anymore and if we take the information we have about tales, disregarding the other book series and the "trauma" they left on claiming theit canonicity, we come to the conclusion that they are most likely canon
it's because the first book series was explicitly stated as unconnected to the games canon, it was it's own thing. by the time the second book series came around, people started using the first book as parralels, something that arguably they shouldnt even do, as it is explicitly it's own thing. so people just carried on their parralels theories to the second series, and it did have some retellings of game events that you could argue are like parralels, so it wasn't really questioned. the third series has a lot more direct connections and was also marketed as being connected, so people understandably saw it as connected, but because others still used the parralels viewpoint, it got complicated
My belief is that when the tales books were set "in the world of the new games" or something like that. I get why people think that means that the games and tales are in the same continuity but i believe it just means that they are using security breach as a setting I just want some confirmation. Ill accept it if tales turns out to be canon. But until we get solid proof or confirmation, i still personally dont believe they are in the same continuity
8:53 Dont forget, assuming it takes 1-3 hours at IDEALLY to go from 6AM to Burntrap, that'd mean Vanessa would ALSO have to: Find a Springlock Endo, find a corpse, and the Springtrap shell, put it together, AND shove it in the charging station before Greggory ever gets down there. Which also contradicts the messages implying Burntrap had been more or less "complete" for a *while* now. Possibly days, weeks, or even months... (Also i support more drawn Mimic Avatars, they're great) EDIT: 14:15 Personally, there IS a way for both to have "credit" i suspect. If i remember right, Edwin receives the Blueprints and he constructs them. Thus, presumably Henry is creating the Characters, making the blueprints, and sending them to Edwin to actually put the parts together/produce a shell for them. Assuming, of course, Edwin ACTUALLY exists, which i'm not sure...
The most popular theory I've seen is that once Glitchtrap died in Princess Quest, Mimic reverted back to base programming and just gave up on the whole Afton cosplay idea. I can roll with that, and it's a cool visual way to indicate Glitchtrap's defeat. But ofc, it's still all just assumption. And on top of which, because Steel Wool is Steel Wool, we have the obvious inconsistency of PQ being a comic ending in SB but being canon in Ruin, which raises questions about the Burntrap ending as a whole. On a side note, I remember when Kelly's death was treated like this huge bombshell reveal of Burntrap's fleshy bits that was treated as absolute fact. Dissenters were shut down left and right. And then Ruin came out, and all that energy died down pretty goddamn quick lol. Like, it might still be true, and I don't think it's been proven wrong, but it just seems like she's not mentioned at all anymore and we're all just sheepishly waiting for the next book and the next epilogue to give us some answers... again. lol
If The Epilogue’s really do explain Burntrap……Then Burntrap IS REAL, considering that comic strip in RUIN put it into question. I know there’s GlamMike but Considering the epilogues. I’m surprised people didn’t delve back down into is really possessing Freddy due to the Teenagers from The Epilogues venturing into the FNAF 6 location.
i wish this series had a story at this point that wasn't made to be confusing to create theory buzz and more actually fit together in interesting ways to tell us something, because at least Scott had a story by pizza sim even if the way he was trying to tell it had some issues. the stuff with security breach feels confusing just to create buzz :/
Yeeeeah, like there was never THIS much disagreement about which things are in the game continuity except maybe the Charlie bot (even that didn’t spiral into what it is now). I feel like even with the original trilogy and MAYBE the Fazbear Frights (though the later entries weren’t that nice) there wasn’t this much confusion or overlap, and I think part of it definitely for theory publicity
@@bluestrangler0447 it's lost some the mystery aspect of why people theorized about it originally, spooky mini games? weird posters? weird yellow Freddy who crashes the game? along with the first game being a genuine horror game, now it seems people are now just trying to keep up with what's happening, and it's no longer has the spooky story energy, just sci fi mubo jumbo trying to fuel thr yt publicity. that could just me looking at it with nostalgia tainted eyes but idk. the new stuff has not been able to, to the same extent, tell any sort of story besides OOHH LOOK ITS THAT GAME YOU USED TO LIKE COME BUY THE NEW ONE, (i say that besides fnaf VR because the original games in VR is terrifying)
@@Jax675 Yeah I agree, it lacks the mystery now. It's just a bunch of details floating around in space, wondering which ones even matter with those details trying to change the past as well as make some sort of present story
Okay and as a follow up comment that doesn't devolve into me hating the story: It sounds like you agree that the original description of the Mimic from the books was clearly implying a connection between the Mimic and Burntrap. Here's the only logical line I could come up with for what happened to the story. SB story is in the works. They originally intend for Glitchtrap to be Afton, Vanny to be the main villain stand-in who is trying to recreate Afton in a physical form, and Burntrap to be the finished result and Afton who has come back. I would support this theory with the cut lines from one of those SB trailers which are pretty much implied to be Afton speaking. I do think that was the original intent. Then somebody (Scott or whoever) decides this entire thing is a bad idea, but they've already gotten so deep into the SB "true Burntrap ending" that they can't back down now for reasons? So SB comes out, and we're all pretty sure the true ending is Burntrap where Vanny isn't saved yet. SO THEN somebody decides, "AHA! We'll not upset the fanbase by bringing Afton back yet again, and, instead, we'll create this new Mimic character! He'll be the stand in for Afton, and it will explain the situation perfectly. Let's describe his initial appearance in these books in such a way that it's a clear parallel to Burntrap." And THEN somebody decided, "Actually, Burntrap didn't happen and the Princess Quest ending is the real canon and we're just going to retcon all that stuff about the Mimic being similar to Burntrap." It's the only way that this entire fiasco makes sense to me at all, otherwise it's just REALLY bad,
The way that I was understanding the "need a new guitarist" line was that it was in reference to Bonnie because previous iterations of Bonnie were guitarists. Before the Pizzaplex, Bonnie was the only character associated with a guitar, so the workers might have assumed that Bonnie would be the guitarist in the Pizzaplex as well. This is probably just reading too much into a mistake made by the writers or some attempt at obscuring the identity of the mimic, but I think it could still very much be a cannon connection to Bonnie rather than another animatronic.
There are other Tales Elements in Ruin too. In the Log Ride, there is a cardboard cutout of Chica wearing a pink and sparkly dress. Which is something Chica wears in those books. In the Bobbiedots, there are tunnels that connect to specific areas of the Pizzaplex, and in Ruin we are in those tunnels.
Whilst I personally haven't read the books, the thing about the guitarrist was something I noticed the first time someone read that passage when talking about the mimic. The only way I think that can be interpreted in any kind of logical way that doesn't cause conflict is for the mimic to arrive at the Pizzaplex before the Glamrocks were a thing, and maybe they were using older models to build a museum like part (not unlike there kinda is a display of legacy objects on the first floor). This isn't too out there if the Mimic itself was imprisoned in an underground part that vastly predates the pizzaplex as it has been down there "for a long time" The mimic spider description, however, I really don't see how that can fit the model we got. That description could describe Mangle if you squint at it, but I don't think the Mimic would have the parts to mimic Mangle.
I feel like the lack of any major connections to any of the Tales stories (besides the Mimic) in Ruin is Steel Wool trying to tell us that TalesGames isn't canon. I don't think that the presence of the Mimic in Ruin was meant to "confirm" TalesGames. What I think happened is that Steel Wool saw how annoyed people were that Afton was being brought back again so they borrowed the idea of the Mimic from Tales to use as a new villain. This could very well explain the differences between the Ruin Mimic and the Tales Mimic if the former was never meant to be the latter, rather just a new character inspired by it. Any time the games borrow an idea or concept from one of the books people try to argue that the book is canon. It happened with the novel trilogy once SL revealed purple guy's name was William Afton, but that time Scott came out and very clearly said that the two took place in different continuities. Why him or Steel Wool haven't done the same for the Tales series I'm not sure. Or TalesGames could be canon and I'm completely wrong. This is just what it seems like to me.
I think you're right, after all Steel Wool went back and renamed the Burn Trap ending to "True Ending" in the game files for the switch release. then turned around and indicated the Princess Quest ending was cannon in RUIN through the comics we find. It seemed odd to take time to rename a file then reneged on that. I really think they just wussed out and gave into the fandom not wanting Afton back. It's a shame really as that caused more issues then it solved. Infact Mimic being the big bad of RUIN made it too predictable and boring as far as story goes. If you know the ending before you start the game is there a point to the game? They would have been better off with Gerg bot turning evil at least that would have been a twist no one was expecting.
Thing is Scott still writes the story of FNAF steel wool have gone in record saying that Scott told them to add stuff they didn't even know but also that doesn't explain the baobab tree in princess quest and Scott has states frights either don't take place in the games or they do and tales continue from frights not to mention the early synopsis of tales saying "set in the same universe as the games"
Oh hey, we DO actually see some Tales easter eggs and even locations in Ruin btw. Like during the logride section, there is a cardboard cut out of Chica wearing a sparkly pink dress. Which is actually something Chica wears in Tales first. In the story, the Bobbiedots conclusion, there are hall ways that weren't seen in base game SB, that were introduced in Tales that went from one specific location to another. And in Ruin, we literally walk those same hallways that were first introduced in Tales.
@@moonknightanimations1251 when I say major connections what I really mean is characters from Tales appearing in Ruin and actually being the same exact character they were in the books, unlike with the Mimics where they have some similarities but also plenty of glaring differences. To say that TalesGames is canon because some small details like Chica's dress, specific hallways, or stuff like the Mr. Hippo magnet are shared between continuities is a pretty big leap. I dont think that these things being present in the books and the game shouldn't also mean that important things like the Storyteller and Tiger Rock are present too without us ever seeing them. And if it does mean that then that's pretty stupid on Scott / Steel Wool's part imo
@@moonknightanimations1251chica wearing pink and some random hallways are not evidence for talesgames. the hallways are just normal ass hallways that connect to different attractions. it isn’t an idea that is unique to bobbiedots, it’s a common feature of literally every mall. glamrock chica and many chica designs in general also incorporate pink, this isn’t some sort of tales exclusive design choice. if you’re trying to say that these random tiny details are intentional hints to talesgames, why would steel wool decide to hint at that by “referencing” these throwaway lines instead of actually referencing anything important from any of tales’ stories?
I will never understand why so many people ascribe to Talesgames so literally and religiously. It just doesn't make sense practically. I could believe it's just bad communication between book team and game team, but the books have always been so much more out there in terms of the ideas that I think they're their own thing. I think the creators of both the games and books are smart enough to know that the fandom will be looking for hints about the games in the books, regardless of canonicity, and will write stories that contains details that, BY BROAD STROKES, also apply in the games. The Mimic exists, most of the traits it had in the books it also has in the games, its backstory is likely similar to the one in the books (whether literally with names changed or metaphorically; nothing is straightforward in this series). But they're not meant to literally take place in the games' continuity. The books definitely play fast and loose, combining characters and elements freely for the content of each individual story. I also think some stories are more 'lore relevant' than others, which I don't think is a controversial opinion but is worth reminding people of once in a while. So the details in certain stories will matter more than the details in others. A contradiction between two stories in the books is sort of like trying to figure out which ending is canon in the games... you gotta pick one over the other. Also, I think it's worth keeping in mind that, a lot of the time, the stories are written before the game comes out! Which means that certain things that would have been true when it was written may have been changed by the time the game releases! All the more reason not to take TalesGames literally, but rather as broad strokes of the story elements. The spider mimic sounds like some unholy combination of Mangle and Ballora, imo as a Mimic-bot. The description of it's wires sound very Funtime-era animatronic at least, given the many strong hints and parallels to Sister Location in Ruin. Edwin is a stand-in for Henry as the 'animatronic's creator' for the purpose of the Mimic storyline. I actually think that Helpi being in the game and Tiger Rock not being used is actually evidence for this, actually, now that you've brought it up. But Helpy is strictly a game-continuity character, and so he's the one that was used, rather than importing a book-continuity character into the games.
People are way too fixated on finding the 100% correct answer even though it won't be revealed for a long time anyway. People are way too fanatic and treat their theory as 100 percent correct. Its rather ridiculous, imagine if a scientist or group of them treated their theory as 100 percent fact and based everything after that off of it, they'd rightfully be labeled crazy. There's a real lack of cohesion in the community, and when that happens what usually happens are the formation of theory camps. People who believe one side of a theory huddle together, so what happens is they just talk to people who agree with them and dismiss those who disagree. It also just leads to more radicalization, too often now theories are treated as truth/false, to one person they're 100% true with no flaws or they are the worst theory ever created. You almost never see a theory labeled as plausible with some flaws. Really, people need to just be more patient, every time I take a 1-2-month break, I never come back to anything 100% proven, but a whole lot of new questions instead. Thats really why the tales being canon or not discussion is really pointless. We either know it is or isnt, we can just theorize both sides, make theories assuming it is canon, and theories assuming it isnt. The truth is no matter how much evidence a theory has, it isn't confirmed until Scott/Steelwool say it is, and I'd argue its way more fun discussing the implications of theories, rather than if theyre true or not. Arguing what's true or not is bitter, toxic, and just making noise until the answer is revealed. Discussing the what if and the implications of the opposite sides of theories (i.e. Discussing implications of if Tales is canon and the implications if it isnt) is way more fun, less toxic, I think a lot of interesting convos are lost people are most focused on WHAT, rather than how or why.
Idk about the other contradictions but I think I can solve the one about Edwin building the classics: Fazbear Entertainment had MULTIPLE Freddy Fazbear's Pizzerias, with their own copies of the main gang. This is heavily implied if not confirmed in Fnaf 3. "Every location is built with one extra room..." "The safe room is being sealed at most locations, including this one." So Henry built the originals, the first generation of the gang, while Edwin just built another batch of them for another location.
In addition to the yellow Chica, Rye Toast also acknowledged the art of Bonnie about his bowling alley: no bangles, shoulder pads or face paint whereas the most of differences the others looked was Monty without the sunglasses, Roxy in a jacket, or mermaid Chica. Rye considered perhaps there was a generation of FNAF 1 esque characters in the Pizzaplex. This led to my own idea: in the old days, Freddy and Chica sang, Bonnie was on guitar. Assuming the Mimic endo in Tales was some form of Glamrock Bonnie- do they even describe the Glamrocks with it? (I mostly get my Tales recaps from Impulse Evan and Ozone, I've only #4 in hand, but haven't looked into it directly yet) The voicebox message notes not to let her sing. What if she got restricted from singing (or even talking in general given her mute before we first leave Freddy) and got put on guitar with Bonnie on bass. Then I imagine Bonnie got decommissioned as Monty is mentioned in Storyteller with the yellow Chica, and eventually she was redesigned to white, or perhaps even replaced with an entirely new bot given a Shattered Chica is mentioned in Bobbiedots. I even questioned it or Monty Within's to be yellow. I think that sewer one was even described as missing a hand like Ruin. (Speaking of which, I think it got swapped from poster to model) However, Ruin doesn't really hold this up: the Monty backstory shows white her with Bonnie, and it's a new cutout, unless Fazbear Entertainment themselves made a hiccup there, and we've that dress cutout Assuming it isn't not connected to the Cowboy Foxy. Bonnie's art looking classic indigo with finger claws still appears in Chapter 7, but Glamrock Bonnie is totally different: a blue paler even than Toy Bonnie, a headband and jumpsuit looking befitting for Mazercise, and no claws like messages alluded too. Foxy is also an odd case, his enhanced pirate aesthetic from Dreadbear is still in SB, even that Longshore statue in Kid's Cove, yet where did Cowboy Foxy come from? Was he ever an animatronic here? Did Roxy actually replace him? I assumed her being there before Monty given In Space 2...
Also one tiny thing that most of the people choose to ignore. If mimic was Glitchtrap(and burntrap),than why spring bonnie as his digital form? İs not he suppose to be look like a white Tiger in the books? As a digital form?
@@MISSWHAT-lp5om some say due to do Help wanted game. But there is so much more data about victims than afton here. So its still doesnt make sense. Plus there is not a single attempt made in the books(that ı know) that connects mimic to afton.
@@Vilgax00 yes i agree with you, but also some say it's bc the mimic did copy afton but that's not true according to the books mimic kill cuz he's programed to pull off the endos limbs and it's sometimes mistake humans with endos and kill them blindly that's why it did kill kelly and crush her corpse in a suit(it's not a springbonnie suit), due to the fact that it did being abused by endrew after endrews son died. mimic is not related with spring bonnie suit or any kind of yellow rabbit with purple eyes and theme in fact it does not relate with afton in any way. and about the digital mimic.. we don't have much info about that other than it did get the tiger rock form.
Still think the Mimic and Burntrap have to be two separate things. The organic chunks on Mimic look placed-on or applied, while the organic thing on Burntrap is "alive". What I mean by that is burn trap is clearly burned, but the fleshy stuff is "growing" across the frame. If you look at Scrap Trap and Springtrap you see that Afton's flesh is not anatomically distributed across his body; there are organ-like chunks and "tubes" (intestines?) that are already starting to wrap, like vines, around the metal frame. The Mimic's model is clearly an endo which then took and smooshed stuff onto itself; nothing is growing out of it. To me, the Sister Location cutscene of Mike resurrecting was meant to communicate something through how unbelievable it was; yes, Mike SHOULD NOT have "come back". He should be dead; Ennard gutted him and filled his insides; he was a sack of loose dead skill left on the sidewalk! But then he literally rises from the dead; with Scott very purposely using an animation that just looks uncanny. Mike could have staggered back onto his feet; the pixels could have gittered around and jumbled back into the standing pose. But Scott chose to show the collapse animation in reverse and it looks very unsettling. I really think that was meant to say "this shouldn't happen" or "this is not natural". Burntrap's strange gooey flesh is "re-growing" after he was burned; that's how the frame and suit parts are wrecked, but there's so much flesh left over / more flesh then was on either previous models. I also think it's important to point out that with Scraptrap's design, the exposed skull took no fire damage; on Burntrap the bones are clearly burned; they are so burned that besides the skull, it's only the gooey flesh left behind.
Not to mention, it's implied through the Stitchwraith Stingers that Light Remnant, the Components like "Love" or such, have *regenerative* and illusion-creating properties too. Meaning by the time Michael reached FNAF 3, there's be nothing unusual about him. He'd simply be a human with brand new organs. ...which also debunks the "rotting corpse" for FNAF 1 and 2 theories too, since he would NOT be rotting.
How does Afton have the ability to corrupt animatronics through their systems though, it doesn't make any sense, mimic however can, I think there was either an error with the design, a retcon when they realized they wanted to use the mimic, or they didn't think anyone would notice
I have the books (referring to Fazbear Frights and Tales from the Pizzaplex in this case) in a half-canon spot. YES, some things did happen almost exactly like I've heard are in the books with the real outlandish stuff gone (eg. the Mimic), but other stories' events are non-canon in the way they're told. GGY is a good example of that second point, where Gregory46/Dr. Rabbit did happen, but the story of GGY itself didn't. Some of the stories are just information to use to theorize, some of them are actual events that went down. But I haven't read/had a summary of all the stories yet, so I can't say much on that topic.
It's a shame there hasn't been a shark animatronic to jump. We are in Act 2 of 3, and I'm just on the sidelines watching the Madness. I would be mad about the whole thing, but it will be glorious cleaning up behind and writing (righting) an actually scary story out of this frayed plot.
>but it will be glorious cleaning up behind and writing (righting) an actually scary story out of this frayed plot. Honestly, either way the fan stories WILL be wild yeah...
A possible interpretation could be that tales from the pizzaplex are just tales told by kids who visited the pizzaplex. This could explain why so many stories hover around what is in the game but don't mirror it perfectly. Rumours of a killer in a bunny costume get combinded into rumors of a killed mimic endo and become burntrap. Then gregory hears those stories and draws the comics.
As much as I like Tiger Rock aesthetically, and as a character, I can think of several reasons he didn't appear in Helpi's place in Ruin: In the Tales stories, he's only seen (and known of) by Pizzaplex customers who have been in the AR version of the future, which was a limited-time event. We don't really have anything tying Cassie to have experienced that. Not to say she couldn't have. The only other way he appears is as the tiger head animatronic in The Storyteller, which the average customer wouldn't have seen, either. We do know, however, that Cassie's Dad was a Faz Technician, so the Mimic1 appears as a technician's "helper", and Helpy is already a much more well-known Fazbear character. Sets him up to be much more trust-able than an (in-universe) obscure character who only appeared for "that one attraction". On a more meta-note, Tiger Rock's appearance basically would have instantly spoiled the whole thing about "Gregory", not that the fans weren't suspicious as soon as the trailers hit. Just throwing that out there 😅
Yeah I don't blame TalesGames theorists for jumping the gun when we had the first big time a concept from the short stories enters the games, even I was one when the Mimic story first came out, but there's so much weirdness it's important to at least recognize that we don't have any confirmations yet
9:20 Okay, I think we need to take a step back and heed Mr. Hippos advice: "A story is a story if you're looking into every single little detail you're going to drive yourself insane"
This was great, thank you! Especially the later half really covers some of the frustrations I have here. Regardless of whether TalesGames is true or not, I think your point about Steel Wool largely ignoring Scholastic is 100% true. The ONLY real connection to the books is the existence of the Mimic itself which doesn't really mean much. Most of the "connections" are just the books mentioning things from the games and not the other way around. And yeah, the bit about how Game Theory, etc are "denying the truth" when TalesGames people are doing the same thing is so true. Like you said, it's important to know so we have a solid foundation to theorize with. As it stands right now it's just not clear which side is correct. But overall yeah, a lot of what you talk about is why I still can't really buy into TalesGames personally. On top of just, it feels odd to me that Scott would allow random Scholastic writers to decide significant chunks of his lore. I know he reviews the stories and everything but that's still handing over quite a bit of creative freedom to a large number of people. Especially in a medium where it's just so much easier to make mistakes or go off the rails without it being caught. If Steel Wool adds a yellow Chica that's going to get spotted right away. If it comes up once in a 100 page story? Very easy to overlook.
All of the latest books have referenced so many small (and big) things from SB, and gone into detail and it matches, there’s a mountains-worth of evidence to support TalesGames, and in RUIN, they make so many small (and big) references to the books We are not denying the truth, we take what is given to us, and use the official information to to draw as accurate conclusions as possible, Matpat on the other hand literally made up nonsense that was NEVER stated anywhere, it’s a difference… I don’t actually think Scott is allowing them to write large chunks of the lore, it’s pretty safe to assume that a lot of this information we’re getting from Tales was supposed to be in SB, but then uhm… yk what happened with that game… A lot of this information will almost certainly be handed to us once Help Wanted 2 or whatever game The Mimic shows up in next, comes out…
@@playerlgamer0592 >they make so many small (and big) references to the books For example? There's... the Mimic. It tears off arms/legs, if we look at Bonnie. It wears costumes (which dont even match the book costumes at all), for a few i can think of.
@@playerlgamer0592 point is that it doesn't matter what Scholastic is doing, that doesn't make it cannon to SB. it just makes it Cannon to the Pizzaplex Idea (world). The two can exist separate from each other entirely and still share some similarities.
@@playerlgamer0592i’m hearing a lot of “just wait until hw2 drops bro then talesgames will be confirmed” when just a few months ago i was hearing the same thing about ruin. also aside from the mimic when is any of the original stuff from the books referenced
@@777SilverPhoenix777 Fair enough, but The Mimic stories themselves are all 100% canon AND in the same continunity, I don't mind excluding unimportant stories such as Lally's Game or Frailty, etc... But, Mimic related stories? 100% canon, or at the very least the actual events that happen, sure a suit might be a different colour here and there but the events themselves happened... _It's a canon event_
They brought afton, people got pissed, they said the Mimic was actually afton (tried to even explain why it had a corpse ffs) people thought it was dumb so they changed it back again. you, cannot convince me this was planned from the fucking start.
@@victorstalnacke1717 The publishers of the books. ALL books. There are many writers from and for the books, and many "official guides" like The Ultimate Guide or The character encyclopedia are fairly poor quality. And as I spend like half the video mentioning there are tons of random differences between the books and games, leading me to believe it's more of a fault on scholastic's writers than anything.
It should be pointed out that Scott is credited to be the only person to write the Epilogues in Tales, which is very notable with the way he writes the sentences and dialogue Also the reason for the “guitarist” line, is that they mistake it for Bonnie due to the rabbit like endo ears and being shipped down with the other glamrocks. The mimic wasn’t meant to be a stage animatronic or anything, they mistake them for one Also, the reason for the design inconsistency, the mimic is said to be able to completely shift and change its form it tons of different ways like you point out. Even in the game both regular mimic and suit mimic have huge inconsistencies
@@siresquawks unlike all the main stories that are credited to be written by Kelly Parra, Andrea Waggener, and Elley Cooper, the Epilogues have no credit anywhere publicly or online to these writers. The only other credit for the books would be Scott, and people have pointed out his writing style in these epilogues like the ones In Frights (Sometimes ending non quoted sentences with exclamation marks and other details) The frights epilogues were all directly written by Scott (none of the writers for frights appear on every book except for Scott, meaning he had to have written them himself) so it’s likely the exact same way with this book series too
This is a really good video and I believe touches on an 'issue' with the theory community at large that being taking things straight at face value. If taken at face value the issues in continuity between the books and the games causes all sorts of issues like you outlined. But if one were to step back and think about this information in the context of its creators it makes more sense. You have two different companies working with the same IP overseen by one guy who only occasionally steps in (I assume) to correct errors or make the changes he wants to see. What probably happened is several years ago their was a draft of ideas written up with story beats and characters Scott wanted to see. This was passed along to the two creative parties who then set out to use that information to create their products, and along the way corrections and clarifications were made until both groups had similar but not exact versions. Game dev is harder to change while in progress than writing a story is, so it makes perfect sense that the books would reference the games and not vice versa since its easier to go back and add words to a story than create new assets and reprogram parts of an already in development game. This just creates issues in the end when people look at the end product in the most literal terms possible instead of trying to account for the context of the products creation which I believe adds valuable information when running into contradictory situations like those outlined in this video.
yoo I saw Xangle! during the spidermimic part there was a G1 transformers transforming sound so does that mean you're a TF fan? and yeah the details you talked about are great and I'm pretty sure the hand that Mimic and Burntrap do share have different endos for the main base of the hand
I have an idea on how we went from human to alien spider robot. The mimic may be somehow reconstructed itself differently, or it could be simply that one of them was a work in progress version, probably the metals, alien spider.
@@Josh651Pro Scott said the books were canon in obscure Reddit and Steam posts. As in, all of the books are canonically set in the FNaF Universe, but are split branches from the main games' timeline.
@@ender01o66 Yeah, that's why I want to see Scott talk about tales from the pizzaplex canoncity because the community is saying they are directly in the games timeline, but like you said, Scott has stated that the books are in separate timelines of the FNAF universe which would debunk that TFTPP is in the games timeline.
@@Josh651Pro He just said the books in general were all in the FNaF Universe. And that the Novel Trilogy and Frights were in separate timelines due to them being set during the same time as the original games, so there was no room for other stories to take place. This is completely different with the Tales series, due to how open-ended Security Breach is lore-wise. So, Tales is in a weird spot where there's nothing outright debunking it or confirming it to be set in the same timeline as the games, it could be either or, and no matter which it is, it wouldn't affect the overall story of the games. However, the rule of thumb of: "If it's only said in the books and never shown or hinted at in the games, then don't use it as evidence." should be applied with the books. An example of this is how the 1985 date is never once mentioned in the games series, or that there's a line of Mimic endoskeletons.
I've seen so many people try to claim that ONLY the princess quest ending is canon and that burntrap doesn't even exist, which is obviously problematic for multiple reasons. 1. Regardless of what ending you get, the building doesn't shapeshift and everything inside should be the same regrdless of whether Gregory sees it or not 2. The blob exists in Ruin and its only other appearance is in the burntrap ending 3. All 3 animatronics are damaged by Gregory (Roxy's eyes, Chica's voicebox and Monty's legs) but that only happens with the burntrap ending, if you choose the princess quest ending only 2 of them are damaged. All this means that the Mimic and burntrap ARE different endos (maybe burntrap is one of the mass-produced mimics but still)
The funny thing about tales, is that tales confirms the existence of certain characters, however if we take Fuhnaff’s most recent theory into account, HW2 will likely not end how tales ends, but will likely end with the twist that Afton is likely controlling mimic (in the form of Glitchtrap or Burntrap) which will likely parallel the ending of fourth closet when it’s revealed Afton stole a Charlie bot and made it into baby with the ability to mimic and shapeshift.
Fuhnaff doesn’t say anything factual, he literally believes Charliebot bullshit, and that The Mimic is somehow Baby?? That’s simply wrong, they would’ve towards it, if it actually was the case…
Honestly, i suspect it wont QUITE go either route... I suspect it'd be working with him, to *learn* from him. It (as Glitchtrap) prying the Enragement Child off his mind, so it can poke him for details freely. To Learn From The Master, one could say... Not quite *control,* but not two separate forces either.
@@higueraft571in my opinion I think it’s unlikely that William’s gone for good considering if the games story takes inspiration from the book lores (TFTP, FF, Novel trilogy) in two out of the three books, Afton has been the primary antagonist and has cheated death three (potentially more or less) times in both books (in FF he burns, then gets injected by a nurse with poison and later explodes because he is taken to the fazbear distribution centre and becomes the amalgamation and then truly dies, and in the Novel trilogy, he survives two springlock failures and being beaten up by Charlie).
10:21 the mimic semi regularly replaces its body parts and seems to act erratically at times so that probably explains why burn trap is the mimic. Also, I think that the mimic endo is being controlled by glitchtrap and the original mimic program, and in the saved vanny ending, glitchtrap was destroyed, and the original program regained control and decided to get rid of the afton cosplay so it could more easily have other cosplays
The initial description of the Mimic and then shifting to later stories and now Ruin has always bothered me because of those antennae ears. Like am I high, or does the way the guy describes the INITIAL appearance of the Mimic not immediately make you think of Burntrap from SB? Before they kinda revealed that it was some weird mimic thing that was made a long time ago and probably has nothing to do with Burntrap, I thought that they were just straight up describing Burntrap. Then the Mimic comes out in the DLC and it's noticeably missing those ears? I don't know if that proves the books are or are not canon, but I do think it likely implies that the story that they were trying to tell has changed which could imply that the narrative that many of the books are trying to tell are now irrelevant anyway and are basically non canon. Like if Burntrap was originally supposed to be Afton but then they said, "Just kidding, Burntrap is just Mimic mimicking Afton and we're setting this up by explaining the initial appearance of the Mimic including his very specific ears," then said, "Just kidding, Burntrap was all in Gregory's mind and it was just the Mimic the whole time and he no longer has those ears," then the books can't really be "canon." Maybe PARTS of them are canon but like... I think it just kinda comes down to bad storywriting if that's the case, and they need to make a statement clarifying what is and is not canon from these books. You can't make a story or series of stories that place heavy emphasis on figuring out what is and is not directly canon and has a variety of possible alternative universes where events all played out SLIGHTLY differently and then decide to retcon stuff midway through your supposed-to-be-canon book series. That just can't work. And it doesn't work. So if somebody official comes out and goes, "Yeah, the books are ALL canon but we retconned some stuff out of them cuz we didn't like it," then that's awful and I'll riot.
People saying this: "burntrap model is a assetflip for mimic model", so why steel wool dont made a 2.0 version of sb? Hire other team to fix the fucking models, but they DONT
Part of the reason I dont see the books as fully canon (I'd call them level 2 canon, which means canon unless the games contradict them, then its the game's canon that takes priority) is just because of how poorly written and sometimes weird the scholastic books can be. Like my goodness the frights series had a freaken impreg story.
4:18 in fairness, the vast majority of non musicians cannot tell the difference between a guitar and a bass guitar. It’s common enough that it gets memed all the time, so it’s not that unreasonable that a technician would get the two mixed up, especially considering Bonnie has historically been the guitarist, not the bassist. The bigger issue, in my view, is WHY DOESN’T THE BAND HAVE A DRUMMER
On a whole design change aspect, does anyone else consider it kind of ridiculous that are series known for having a fanbase that scrutinizes details to gather information would change character designs in a DLC of the same game? Changing visuals between games with different artstyles is understandable, but doing it in the same game just feels like intentional misdirection for no good reason.
Would've actually been cool if the in-game Mimic had the ability to pop out or split it's limbs into more limbs or something like that. If the idea is it can mimic and fit into ANY costume i'd like if it would be able give itself more limbs to fit into spider type costumes like music man or idk a scorpion. It would make him a more worthy antagonist if he looked a little less regular endo-y if it wanted to.
something worth noting about your theory about Steel Wool and Scholastic being terrible at communicating to each other; Scott is notorious for being terrible at communication with people when it comes to directing the games. i'm probably misremembering this, but, i think Steel Wool straight up admitted in the Dawko interview he did before Security Breach came out that Scott will just, say yes or no to things, give them a general idea of where to go, and never give them full info on what's supposed to be going on in the current story. i really think at this point, Scott, Steel Wool, and publishers/writers at Scholastic, need to have a sit down and talk about things, put it all on hold, and figure it out, because this lack of communication both between them and us as consumers is getting out of hand and it's made figuring out the story of FNAF way less fun than it used to be.
When it comes to are the books canon… I like to take the simpler answer. “Yeah”. The tales books fill in enough important blanks and have enough connections to SB that I feel trying to find how it half fits is more difficult than focusing on all these details that dont quite fit, as doing so kinda muddies the big picture of what these books are doing
I cant help but see that a lot of the debates come down to things like "well this doesnt quite line up with this" and it just makes talk from either side of the debate... kinda impossible. Im just kinda rambling but I feel the fandom as fallen into a trap of breaking down every small detail and ignoring the points that actually matter. It leads to things like "Mimic was made by Henry for Charlie".
@@tamaritamarileonardo394 Mimic's weird claw arm pose he does in both burntrap and his endo form are explained in the books. GGY explains patient 46. Glitchtrap's design has details that match descriptions of Edwin as he destroyed Mimic. Mimic's eyes are orange whenever he's going to attack. The books are marketed as canon. Scott himself has said Frights contains stories that directly tie into the games and Tales references frights. Bobbiedots has a pizzaplex that almost exactly matches the one we see in game and even has the main character hiding out in the hideout we find in the Kid's Cove pirate ship
In any other fandom, "This place has a huge baobab tree in it" and "This place does not have a huge baobab tree in it" would be confirmation that those two places cannot be the same place. But not this one.
In defense for your "Glamrock guitar Mimic issue thing" is that the epilogues are set before the Pizzaplex is even built. Everyone knows Bonnie as the primarily guitar player up until the Pizzaplex is built and the Glamrocks are introduced to the masses. That's why that man had the guitarist ears line, he was referring back to the fact that the rabbit character had always famously been tied to the Guitar. It's not a mistake or continuity error.
@@wrixchanger3985 Just because the og model has 4 strings doesn't mean the intent isn't for it to be a guitar. It's stated multiple times that Bonnie's instrument is a guitar.
It really feels like the book writers were thinking about the blob when they were describing the spider-mimic, because it makes absolutely no sense if it's meant to be ruin's mimic
This would have been the perfect time to introduce Remnant if they really wanted to solidify a connection instead of just having the mimic step out of the darkness they could have shown it transforming in like some type of purple aura give it some flare imo this game is officially just a bridge to the next one I think it's possibly intentional on SW and Scotts part🤔 we shall see
The problem with mimick and burntrap at this point is that the modern game continuity is just so arbitrary. How can we know what's linked when actually linked content just changes between games anyway
3:58 Funny how Bonnie's model doesn't have those claws (or even holes for them) in Ruin. 6:25 In the (textured) model, isn't the spine organic? 9:00 That could just be stuffing from another costume, as it is shown to own multiple cloth/plush costumes.
I think the tales are in the same situation security breach was in, scott/steel wool won’t straight up tell them the story and instead just tell them what to throw in without any explanation.
If burntrap ending is not Canon then burntrap glitchtrap wouldn't even be Canon or be the mimic and because you see the glitchtrap William shadow meaning he could be gone but I'm not sure he might come back we don't really know if he gone or not FNAF like to trick you William is burntrap glitchtrap and mimic is it own individual separate character there both separate from each other The burntrap ending is Canon to me cuz it says true ending and princess quest ending Canon to where Vanny Vanessa was free from William glitchtrap burntrap control possession hypnotized Vanni mask was Vanessa masks the real vanny mask that was on the floor from Princess quest and William glitchtrap burntrap need a new host body and Cassie put the vanny mask on so Cassie may become next vanny William what about all some of the Gregory comics are Canon though I think mimic shape-shifting meaning it can just fit inside the big mascot suit the mimic you know the mimic shape-shift in the mascot suit skin suit like ennard to escape
Ok I know this is going to start as a weird comparison but I'm going somewhere with it: So in 2021 Balan Wonderworld came out to universal scorn. While a lot of that was related to its boring gameplay a good chunk of it was also directed at the fact the only way you could fully understand the story was to read a novel that was released around the same time. Gamers pointed out to reality that is games should absolutely not require basically hidden payed DLC just to understand the story. A game that came out in 2021 to universal scorn due to its gameplay? Hmm that sure sounds real familiar! Basically this makes me wonder if between seeing that and also the whole lore hint NFT nonsense Poppy Playtime if Steel Wool purposely chose to to make their mimic model inconsistent with the one from the Tales books to retain a separate continuity. Like losing maybe some merchandising opportunities was likely worth it if it meant not being accused of milking children out of more money by hiding vital story information behind another piece of media those children would want to own. I also think Tiger Rock funkos are still going to sell well regardless of that furrybait felid's lack of direct visual confirmation in Ruin lol.
i've been saying this since the mimic showed up, there is clear miscommunication between the books and games team, heck the games are weirdly scared to use the term mimic for no reason. would it make Unreal 4 explode or something? i think SW are where just scared to upset fans and wanted to leave things open-ended to walk the mimic introduction back if it didn't go well. by not using the term mimic they can just say it's a new endo based on the books or something. non of this was well thought out from the beginning, and we're all loosing because of it.
Also the epilogues take place before the Pizzaplex is finished being built so there are literal years for it to go through a design change to lose its ears.
This is my new favorite theory, that steel wool and schoolastic just absolute horrid compunction between each other. There’s no fact checking or memos shared just chaos. Just imagine, “oh shit, how’d we get two lion mascot costumes???”
I feel like it should be important to say that saying the Epilogues are just "Scholastic stories" does a disservice to the fact that Scott Cawthon himself is actually the one writing them.
@@seabass-nj2qbthat's not the point. The point is that just calling the epilogues Scholastic stories makes you think they aren't as important even though Scott himself is writing them. Suggesting they are.
@@siresquawks I’ve seen so many people say this but haven’t actually seen this confirmed, I don’t think any of us really know Scott’s exact involvement anymore
@@siresquawksI read somewhere where it was stated that Scott had directly written those stories. The crediting to the other authors makes it seem legit to me.
11:58 i've said it before and i'll say it again. this is what happens when take a character from a goosebumps clone, and make them a main villain. It just does not work. Plus steelwool is not helping by making this stuff as vague as humanly possible, like they always do. we dont even know if thats the mimic, its just an endoskeleton that can speak like greggory. If it weren't called the grimmic in the files, i would've assume'd it was ballora miss f***ing afton, since they also have some kind of voice technology (despite it being to mimic parents voices). its just, bad. Steelwool needs better story writers, or even if the scott is still interacting with the games production in anyway (despite being retired) just needs to course correct. i would like the mimic, if not for the fact we already had glitchtrap and vanny (and if they'd done better with em) like any of this compares to the main seven. lets hope HW2 has nothing to do with this, or everything to do with this. (yes i speak steelwool)
Just gonna say it... the sheer quantity of design differences from SB to Ruin make it almost impossible to just ignore that it's a perfectly valid reason for why the Mimic and Burntrap look differently. Roxy isn't the only one, every single animatronic is VASTLY different, they somehow went from 'standardized' endo units in shells to each band member having different builds and internal systems. Which also completely negates the bare endos, like why do those exist if the band members have unique endos? They have staffbot and they used to have a standby band member to step in to cover shit when there was a need for repairs, so why does the Pizzaplex just have 30 or so mulit-million-dollar ghost-powered robot skeletons roaming around in the maintenance tunnels? It's stupid and I don't think we can rule out design incompetence given how poorly Steel Wool performed previously, not everything has to be significant when you're dealing with a company like that...
I wouldn't go that far and i feel like you could parse the explination tbay after SB and before the 'earthquake' happened, they could've tried to upgrade the animatronics with new endos that werent broken, thus replacing them, and stopped halfway through due to the blob going around. Then Roxy was given her face node thingy, or whatever, but man it'd be really helpful if they just... explained it?! I don't think Steel Wool are that incompetent, and this feels like a more rooted explination to randomly change endos.
>mulit-million dollar This is Fazbear, they probably cost like $20,000 tops. >ghost-powered Not Possessed. >when you're dealing with a company like that When you're dealing with Scott, you mean? Like the whole "Springtrap pulled himself out the Springlock Endo and crammed himself in another" thing :V
@@higueraft571 Dude you're delusional, those endo skeletons blow our current technology out of the water, no way they're that cheap. The ghost-powered thing was a joke, I know they're not powered by children... unless they are as theorized by like everyone who says the Pizzaplex is chalk full of agony and remnant or whatever. No, I mean Steel Wool, when you're dealing with a crucially incompetent company like Steel Wool, unless you think SB was a marvel of gaming or some tripe, it's hilariously incompetent at every turn.
@@boanoah6362all of fnaf’s technology blows ours out of the water. if the gr endos cost millions of dollars, where did william get the money to make the “multi million dollar” funtimes, which are arguably more advanced than the gr endos? the answer is he didn’t because it’s a video game.
@@Shrekinspace That's the stupidest reason you could ever even hope to use, may as well just turn your brain off if you think it's a suitable excuse. Afton owned a whole robotics business with a board of directors and everything, his best buddy was likewise a brilliant inventor pursuing advanced robotics. If there's anyone that could waste millions it's Afton, the dude doesn't give a shit and his company went on to be more successful than IRL Disneyland.
It might be possible that the mimic was at one point intended to be burntrap but was changed into its own thing and the burntrap ending was made questionably canon with the comic strips instead.
My take on it has always been the books have a sort of superposition of canonicity. The books take place in the universe of the game and are canon until something doesn't fit in with the game then it becomes an alternate course of events that could have happened. Just like how the different endings of the mainline FNaF games have aspects that are canon to the lore even if the ending itself isn't canon. Security breach for instance regardless of what ending is canon in ruin we gets hints that aspects of all the endings are canon regardless of which single one is what actually happened.
dude that is stupidety at it's dumbest you can't just make up excuses on why something deosn't line up + that hzas litarelly 0 evidence behind it and also you do know in security breach it is implied that the princess quest ending is canon right.
Are the books canon? No. Simple. Done. Next topic. Oh, you want the long answer? Fine... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Frfr tho, they are canon to themselves, if thats the question. But no, they are not compatible with the game's lore. It just wouldn't work. Things don't line up right. That being said, they are clearly taking more and more INSPIRATION from the books, which I do not appreciate. It should be the other way around, if anything.
Honestly I feel like they follow the logic of the fbf books and sliver eyes trilogy. If scott or steel wool hasn't come out and establish that the totpp function differently and are apart of tge game timeline then it probably isn't in the same continuity. The books establish ideas that makes us wonder where these ideas might exist in the games. For example he talked about how inconsistent the appearance of the mimic is like the spider appearance. But i doesn't think its actually inconsistent because it might just be another endo running the mimic program. Why would they do this? Probably to say what matpat said about the blob, its another version of the mimic. Edit: also side note this serise is for security breach which is a massive mess with tons of unsolved answers and the books were established to answer questions of the past. Past now being sb which again had a ton so the answer might hit people hard in the head with its answers like GGY. Which leads to people believing its apart of tge game timeline because of how hard it hits people in the head.
Canon =/= Continuity Continuity = One, unbroken, continuous timeline with a clear throughline and a beginning and end Canon = The official collection of media per the rights holder The books, the games, and the film are all canon, but they aren't all in one continuity. Scott understands the difference, and has previously been specific about how the books are CANON, but not within the CONTINUITY of the games (this was during the OG era though, of course). What that means is the books are official FnaF canon, which just means it's an official piece of the FnaF collection, per the creator.
Dude I’ve done this rant a million times on this channel. I’m very aware of this, and in the video I largely use “in the game continuity”. Canon is mainly for ease of explanation and the thumbnail, to sell the idea of the video better.
Fazbear frights weren't Canon per say. They had ideas and details that were Canon, like revealing Aftons name, but the stories themselves weren't. I treat Tales in much the same way. I imagine Mimics backstory will be different in the games.
I have a theory that the Tales books and Security Breach games are telling the same story but in different perspectives. The books are focused on the Mimic while the game is focused on Glitchtrap evolving separate from the Mimic code from HW with William's agony/spirit taking over it and trying to take over the entire program while when he failed his last ditch effort was to stop the Mimic from regaining control. The Mimic is obviously not trying to mimic William as we once thought, has definitely been trapped pre FNAF 6 via being far below the location (possibly Fredbear's Family Diner) and neither Vanessa or Gregory don't know who the Mimic is while they have obviously been down there before whether before or after they were free by Gregory's backpack being down there. What do you think?
Carousel is from the books, dream sphere is from the books, Princess Quest isnexplained in the books, Burntrap is explained in the books, GGY/P46 is explained in the books, The Mimic is explained in the books, the indie dev is explained in the books, AR world is from the books, Glitchtrap's control is explained, theres literally an entire story in the Tales explaining fnaf 4 and featuring Ballora and Lolbit I think its fair to say the books are canon.
Not the same carousel, dream sphere kinda, Burntrap barely by association, 46 yes, Mimic yes but it lost half of its abilities between the books and games and a lot of context is missing between the two, don’t remember the AR world being explained- and Dittophobia has a protagonist who teleports and enters rooms with weird descriptions and discrepancies such as the Fnaf 4 room being destroyed in reality but being fine in SL. It’s about half there but there’s still a lot of shenanigans at foot that make it fit somewhat awkwardly for me. Its fair to believe it’s canon- but I don’t think it’s canon by default as in confirmed 100%.
Okay, so here's my theory as a professional amateur. SteelWool obviously changed their minds a few times over the course of making these games/stories. The original story of Security Breach and FNAF VR was probably something like: "millionaire FNAF-fanatic resurrects the Fazbear brand and starts conducting cooky sci-fi experiments to bring back William so that they can become immortal together and love each other forever. Glitchtrap is created by taking dark remnant, ye olde evil energie, and pouring it on an old IBM computer. Neo-Fazbear Inc develops haunted VR video games in order for Glitchtrap to possess unsuspecting players like Gregory and Vanessa. Gregory kills his family and does computer shenanigans because he's possessed. And then Security Breach happens and Glitchboy is defeated. THE END(?)." After the plot of Security Breach was criticized by fans, SteelWool decided to retcon the entire thing. The new story goes something like this: "Mimic is an old animatronic from ye olden times. He's evil because he was locked up many years ago. He takes control of people and creates illusions because he wants to escape and do evil. He tries to escape, but fails. THE END(?)" Or something like that. Aaaand that's my interpretation of the new story! It will probably change a lot in the next game, so take everything with a pound of salt.
I think this wouldn't even be such a controversial question if the books focused on telling sensible and coherent stories that aren't completely batshit insane.
My good sir, I think you are confused Fazbear Frights with Tales. I get why people confuse the two, they are told through the similar method. (3 stories, then an epoluge) but that kind of batshit craziness in Frights is actually dialed way back in Tales. To the point that Ruin gave crazier ideas than Tales ever did.
@@moonknightanimations1251
Under construction....exist
Sorry don't want to offend you, i think TFTP may be less crazy, but still share this weirdness nonetheless
@@Idk_anymore_1234 I'm more offended that you thought that would've offended me.
@@moonknightanimations1251
I am So sorry 😭😭
@@Idk_anymore_1234 That’s one out of like 25 stories (counting The Mimic epilogues all as one story)…
Here is something I just thought about.
William is canon to both the books and games, but is very different
Henry is canon to both the books and games, but is very different
Elizabeth is canon to both the books and games, but is very different
Charlie is canon to both the books and games, but is very different
The Fnaf 1 location and Circus Babys Pizza world are canon to both the books and games, but are very different
The MCI is canon to both the books and games, but is very different
Specific characters are canon to both the books and games, but are very different
The Pizzaplex is canon to both the books and games, but is very different.
So, thusly,
The Mimic is canon to both the books and games, but is very different.
People need to stop using the books as a Fnaf bible.
Yeah like seriously
People really need to gets some brains cells for this
they are all canon but exist in seperate continuities finally someone gets it
I think they are stories and they are canon to something 🗿🗿🗿
If i remember correctly, scott said everything he makes is canon, but isn’t neccearily in the games timeline or something like that.
@@kacperrembielinski-gaazka1981 you never know they might just be in caillou universe
🗿🗿
I think they are something you read 🗿🗿🗿
I don’t know about that
I think part of the issue is that someone who isn’t well versed at the difference between a bassist and a guitar would at first glance think they are the same. Maybe the guy who said that line didn’t know the difference between a guitar and a bass.
I will say that I think the idea that Scott, Steel Wool and Scholastic probably have communication issues is probably pretty correct with how the books are going. I think your take on that is pretty spot on
Scott wrote the plots of the Tales series, not Scholastic.
@@ender01o66Proof?
I now need Helpi being replaced with Tiger Rock in my life.
It's not only an infinitely better choice like the video says but Tiger Rock has the perk of canonically saying "Ya feel me?" making him not only a peak, slightly questionable, guide for Ruin but also a peak character in fiction.
69th like
I might make a mod for that eventually, I’ll be back to update ye on this if you want?
@@playerlgamer0592 I mean if you're serious, then sure, that sounds really cool!
@@elliotnutella8044 yeah yeah, It would honesty just work better as a companion so might aswell…
Mod potential
I doubt we'll get an answer to this anytime soon since The Mimic existing at minimum implies parts of the books are canon, while others still blatantly contradict what we see in the games. Wish someone just came out and said yes or no, it'd be so much easier.
We were literally told they take place in the same world as the new games I honestly don't know how this debate exists.
@@moonknightanimations1251proof?
@@seabass-nj2qb bruh how am I supposed to give proof I can't post images. This information was given to us when the books were announced. It was the initial description of what the books would be about. "Taking place in the world of the newest games." Is the exact quote.
@@moonknightanimations1251 Same world not timeline which are too distinctly different things.
@@johnman8398 They don't have to be lmao. I know the whole Canon doesn't equal continuity thing, but like actually think about it beyond that one saying.
This is the one thing in this franchise I really do wish Scott commented on.
Theorising has always been FNaF's selling point. It's fun to not know and speculate. Without cryptic lore storytelling this wouldn't be FNaF. But TalesGames is just so confusingly done, with so much unclear statements, people arguing over its canonicity just sucks all the fun out of the current plot. Heck, even the wretched MimicTrap theory is difficult to argue about, when we don't even know whether to use Mimic's own series as argumentd for/against it, or not.
Yeah I agree, it’s turned from a game that requires you to listen and look closely to grasp the hidden, yet mostly straightforward story, to one where depending on what you look at the story shifts and sometimes those shifts don’t matter and other times they change major elements. Additionally I feel like Scott has given up on that whole “clarify in the next game” philosophy
Theorizing about the story is fun; theorizing what is actually a part of that story and whatnot is ridiculous and frustrating.
That’s something we need explicit confirmation on
@@Foracedlogbook is a canon book. Scott never addressed it but we can be fairly confident it is.
So now that we have two book series that he also never properly addressed as being canon or not, nor can we be “confident” about like Frights, then yes this is where we need confirmation.
He never said the books aren’t canon, he talked about Silver Eyes when ‘canonicity’ became a question, and by proxy we can rule out its sequels.
Scott has never talked about Tales, and Frights he made only ambiguous statements prior to their release. Hence why further confirmation is necessary.
@@Foraced He outright said Frights were different from Charlie trilogy and only the latter is confirmed to be its own timeline. While it can be used as supporting evidence against StitchLineGames and/or TalesGames, it is not a deal breaker by itself.
I think the introduction of the books have really soured the series. I would've preferred it if they were just something optional for you to buy, but its lore relevancy is just a gimmick to get theorizers to buy more stuff in this franchise.
Another thing about Burntrap being the Mimic is that Vanny made Burntrap, and Vanny only exists because of Glitchtrap. People want to believe that Glitchtrap is also the Mimic, but that can't possibly be true. Because if Glitchtrap is the Mimic, then how was it able to possess Vanessa? When Glitchtrap was William, him possessing Vanessa made some kind of sense. It was one part William's soul and one part virus. It was outlandish, but it made sense in a sci-fi way. BUT if we're supposed to believe that Glitchtrap is the Mimic, then it no longer makes any sense. It's an AI mimicking William. How and why would it be able to exit the VR game and hijack Vanessa's brain through the VR headset? She's not a robot.
The mimic1 program in the books infects the animatronics and the pizzaplex (like glitchtrap does in the games) through a baobab tree (the same tree we see above the doors to the anomaly in princess quests and also was able to infect a person (the Monty within)
We are directly told how a VR character (who was influenced by the Mimic1 AI) can possess a person in "The Monty Within." We are literally told how Mimic could have possessed Vanessa if he is Glitchtrap. We still don't know how William could've possibly done that if he is Glitchtrap that doesn't go beyond just theorizing.
Also the assumption that Vanny made Burntrap is just that, a assumption. A theory. We don't know that for fact.
@@dumbly-stupid Yeah but HOW? I can jive with the Mimic infected the robots but not a human. It simply doesn’t make sense.
@@moonknightanimations1251 The Monty Within has a kid get electrocuted by an arcade cabinet which causes Monty to get into his brain. That’s not only ridiculous and unbelievable but also not the same thing as Glitchtrap possessing Vanessa. The headset isn’t electrocuting her as Glitchtrap’s possessing her. He’s literally uploading himself into her brain against her will. That made sense when it was William because he was a spirit turned virus. Souls possessing people is a common horror trope, but an AI uploading itself into someone’s brain doesn’t make any sense. Are we really supposed to just turn off our brains and accept these incredibly obvious plot holes?
The Mimic is truly a fancy boy.
We need more people like you in the community. Hope people don't shit on you for this because it's getting so toxic.
The FNAF fandom has always been this toxic they literally sent Scott Cawthon and his family death threats on Twitter because of politics which is all people seem to care about nowadays.
@@Mandalore_ultimate >has always been this toxic
God no, it was cringe early on, but it definitely started getting so some time before SB. SB however is what brought it to the surface...
...and that too.
One problem I have with Tale is WHERE THE HECK IS VANNY?!?! If Tales is canon then it would be the perfect place to use Vanny since she barely appeared in SB, the books could have been used to redeem that but instead nothing, unless I’m missing something she just doesn’t appear like at all. They could made stories about her hacking the animatronics, her killing off some of her coworkers because they’re starting to get suspicious of her, or even have a story about one of her child victims as they were trapped in the pizzaplex being hunted down by Vanny and all the animatronics (including Freddy since he wouldn’t be on safe mode), or even just having her work with the Mimic and helping it with whatever it has planned. I’m on the side that Tales isn’t canon, and that it takes place in a timeline were Vanessa was never taken over by the Mimic, and the Mimic chose to only control Gregory, or chose to use Gregory instead of Vanessa.
Oh,yeah. We forget that they dumped her for Mimic...
@@Vilgax00 pretty sure they dumped her before Mimic replaced Afton.
The reason she can’t be in Tales is presented in GGY. GGY tells the story of the therapy tapes and tells us that GGY is set around when the tapes were being made. Now while the tapes were made, Vanessa did not work at the Pizzaplex, she was working at the AR company. And GGY is one of the most recent stories in the Tales timeline, so that means every story before it doesn’t have Vanny because Vanessa doesn’t work there yet.
So the reason Vanny doesn’t appear in any Tales is because she’s working at the AR company and hasn’t moved over to the Pizzaplex yet.
@doubletsquid5862 In Lally’s game one of the stories from the first Tales there’s a photo of one characters at the pizzaplex when they were a kid with that said character now being an adult during the events of Lally’s game, and through Help Wanted we know that the pizzaplex was being built around the time the Mimic took control of Vanessa and during the events of SB she looks fairly young like around her mid to late 20s. So they can make stories that are set long after Vanessa worked at the pizzaplex.
@@MeemahSNthe mimic has been planned for a while things that happened in the books are referenced in HW
I think the Tales books exist in a parallel universe and aren't directly canon, but certain events are close enough that they happen in similar ways.
For example, in Ruin, the Mimic was probably created in a similar way as in the Tales books, although it might not be exactly the same.
This is sort of a salad bar approach, where it let's you pick out what you want and discard anything you don't.
In essence, it's the whole 'parallels' thing again.
convoluted way of saying different continuities
@@punusername3445 I didn't think of it like that, but yes, basically.
I love this interpretation, because it means I get to keep my boys Edwin Murray and Tiger Rock to explain the Mimic and the wall code, and keep the entirety of Pressure to explain Burntrap, and throw out Under Construction and Animatronic Apocalypse because they’re dumb.
i think the best way to think about the books is the same way ryetoast thinks about them: that they're an alternate timeline with mostly separate characters that parallel characters we see in-game
(A quick disclaimer that I haven’t read any of the Tales books, I’m basing this on what I’ve heard other RUclipsrs say)
In one of the books it was revealed that Sun was originally a performer and when the lights went out they would turn into moon (who was the villain) as part of the performance. Sun was then moved to the daycare but they couldn’t remove the evil Moon from his code so they put in generators to keep the lights on permanently.
This doesn’t line up with the games as in Ruin not only does Cassie use a Faz-wrench (a widely available tool) to reboot them into Eclipse, thus removing the danger of Moon and the need for the lights. Furthermore the description on a moon plush (I think) reveals that Cassie used to sleep in the daycare, which wouldn’t be possible if the lights had to be on 24/7. The description being on a Moon related item also implies that Moon is somehow relevant to her sleeping which would imply the original assumption everyone had of him taking care of kids whilst they slept was true.
TLDR: The daycare attendant’s backstory in the books doesn’t align with what’s shown in the games. This is a pretty big detail and is the focus of a whole story so you’d think someone would notice.
>which wouldn’t be possible if the lights had to be on 24/7.
Damn, you dont sleep with the lights blasting your eyeholes constantly?
Truly, Cassie is Built Bifferent :V
But yeah
@@higueraft571Daydreaming moment, and not all of the Daycare is blindingly bright with the lights on, such as inside the castles.
The technicians wanted to remove Moon completely from Sun, while Sun just wanted the two halves fused together, which wouldn't be just Sun like the technicians wanted, so it's a different situation.
Also, Moon likely wasn't as aggressive as he is in Security Breach before he was infected by the same virus as the other animatronics.
@@ender01o66 She specifically states that she never slept as well as she did when she was in the daycare so it’s unlikely she was just daydreaming. Also the area inside the castle that isn’t brightly lit up is quite limited and is mostly along the stair and walkways where other kids would be running along. Also there’s the music.
@@ender01o66
1) Yeah but merging the two together still gives the desired effect of removing the “evil” Moon whilst keeping the caring one to take care of the kids. There’s nothing that sun could do that Eclipse couldn’t handle (If anything Eclipse is better since he’s less aggressive). Plus simply rebooting would be significantly easier, cheaper and safer than setting up multiple generators inside the play structure and hoping no child messes with them. There’s really no clear reason to not just reboot them.
2) I know which is one of the reasons I think Moon was likely supposed to take care of the kids whilst they slept, hence Cassie reminiscing about her sleep when she sees a Moon plush and Moon’s design generally hinting towards themes of sleep like with the hat.
What confuses me is how people understood that the two previous book series were meant to just be parallels for the games, but then suddenly, a huge part of the Fandom just seemed to arbitrarily decide that the tales books are meant to be 100% in the continuity of the games. I just don't really get it.
There is a theory that Frights is canon, though I do not believe those.
Tales only really works as a prequel. Frights has a pretty conclusive beginning, middle, and end. But with Tales it is a forgone conclusion that Mimic will survive the epilogues.
It was not arbitrarly decided, tales old description was that it happened in the world of the newest games. Scholastic further confirmed that this was changed for purely marketing reasons and that such descriptions were given to them,so it's not just something they made up.
All of this, plus the various similarities between tales and the games, shows that tales is in the games.
But how do you know that the tales aren't just meant to serve as a parallel to the games as a way of clearing up confusion in the game story.
@@ryguy1928 bcs scholastic said it happes in the world of the newest games. Really the only thing that stops people from believing in TalesGames is that they are still hang on the trilogy mindset; however, this is not the trilogy anymore and if we take the information we have about tales, disregarding the other book series and the "trauma" they left on claiming theit canonicity, we come to the conclusion that they are most likely canon
it's because the first book series was explicitly stated as unconnected to the games canon, it was it's own thing. by the time the second book series came around, people started using the first book as parralels, something that arguably they shouldnt even do, as it is explicitly it's own thing. so people just carried on their parralels theories to the second series, and it did have some retellings of game events that you could argue are like parralels, so it wasn't really questioned. the third series has a lot more direct connections and was also marketed as being connected, so people understandably saw it as connected, but because others still used the parralels viewpoint, it got complicated
My belief is that when the tales books were set "in the world of the new games" or something like that. I get why people think that means that the games and tales are in the same continuity but i believe it just means that they are using security breach as a setting
I just want some confirmation. Ill accept it if tales turns out to be canon. But until we get solid proof or confirmation, i still personally dont believe they are in the same continuity
Tbh most of the tales character descriptions are inaccurate to even just their covers. So having small details being different in game isnt that weird
8:53
Dont forget, assuming it takes 1-3 hours at IDEALLY to go from 6AM to Burntrap, that'd mean Vanessa would ALSO have to:
Find a Springlock Endo, find a corpse, and the Springtrap shell, put it together, AND shove it in the charging station before Greggory ever gets down there.
Which also contradicts the messages implying Burntrap had been more or less "complete" for a *while* now. Possibly days, weeks, or even months...
(Also i support more drawn Mimic Avatars, they're great)
EDIT: 14:15 Personally, there IS a way for both to have "credit" i suspect. If i remember right, Edwin receives the Blueprints and he constructs them.
Thus, presumably Henry is creating the Characters, making the blueprints, and sending them to Edwin to actually put the parts together/produce a shell for them.
Assuming, of course, Edwin ACTUALLY exists, which i'm not sure...
The most popular theory I've seen is that once Glitchtrap died in Princess Quest, Mimic reverted back to base programming and just gave up on the whole Afton cosplay idea. I can roll with that, and it's a cool visual way to indicate Glitchtrap's defeat. But ofc, it's still all just assumption. And on top of which, because Steel Wool is Steel Wool, we have the obvious inconsistency of PQ being a comic ending in SB but being canon in Ruin, which raises questions about the Burntrap ending as a whole.
On a side note, I remember when Kelly's death was treated like this huge bombshell reveal of Burntrap's fleshy bits that was treated as absolute fact. Dissenters were shut down left and right. And then Ruin came out, and all that energy died down pretty goddamn quick lol. Like, it might still be true, and I don't think it's been proven wrong, but it just seems like she's not mentioned at all anymore and we're all just sheepishly waiting for the next book and the next epilogue to give us some answers... again. lol
If The Epilogue’s really do explain Burntrap……Then Burntrap IS REAL, considering that comic strip in RUIN put it into question.
I know there’s GlamMike but Considering the epilogues. I’m surprised people didn’t delve back down into is really possessing Freddy due to the Teenagers from The Epilogues venturing into the FNAF 6 location.
i wish this series had a story at this point that wasn't made to be confusing to create theory buzz and more actually fit together in interesting ways to tell us something, because at least Scott had a story by pizza sim even if the way he was trying to tell it had some issues. the stuff with security breach feels confusing just to create buzz :/
Yeeeeah, like there was never THIS much disagreement about which things are in the game continuity except maybe the Charlie bot (even that didn’t spiral into what it is now). I feel like even with the original trilogy and MAYBE the Fazbear Frights (though the later entries weren’t that nice) there wasn’t this much confusion or overlap, and I think part of it definitely for theory publicity
@@bluestrangler0447 it's lost some the mystery aspect of why people theorized about it originally, spooky mini games? weird posters? weird yellow Freddy who crashes the game? along with the first game being a genuine horror game, now it seems people are now just trying to keep up with what's happening, and it's no longer has the spooky story energy, just sci fi mubo jumbo trying to fuel thr yt publicity. that could just me looking at it with nostalgia tainted eyes but idk. the new stuff has not been able to, to the same extent, tell any sort of story besides OOHH LOOK ITS THAT GAME YOU USED TO LIKE COME BUY THE NEW ONE, (i say that besides fnaf VR because the original games in VR is terrifying)
@@Jax675 Yeah I agree, it lacks the mystery now. It's just a bunch of details floating around in space, wondering which ones even matter with those details trying to change the past as well as make some sort of present story
Okay and as a follow up comment that doesn't devolve into me hating the story:
It sounds like you agree that the original description of the Mimic from the books was clearly implying a connection between the Mimic and Burntrap.
Here's the only logical line I could come up with for what happened to the story.
SB story is in the works. They originally intend for Glitchtrap to be Afton, Vanny to be the main villain stand-in who is trying to recreate Afton in a physical form, and Burntrap to be the finished result and Afton who has come back. I would support this theory with the cut lines from one of those SB trailers which are pretty much implied to be Afton speaking. I do think that was the original intent.
Then somebody (Scott or whoever) decides this entire thing is a bad idea, but they've already gotten so deep into the SB "true Burntrap ending" that they can't back down now for reasons? So SB comes out, and we're all pretty sure the true ending is Burntrap where Vanny isn't saved yet.
SO THEN somebody decides, "AHA! We'll not upset the fanbase by bringing Afton back yet again, and, instead, we'll create this new Mimic character! He'll be the stand in for Afton, and it will explain the situation perfectly. Let's describe his initial appearance in these books in such a way that it's a clear parallel to Burntrap."
And THEN somebody decided, "Actually, Burntrap didn't happen and the Princess Quest ending is the real canon and we're just going to retcon all that stuff about the Mimic being similar to Burntrap."
It's the only way that this entire fiasco makes sense to me at all, otherwise it's just REALLY bad,
The way that I was understanding the "need a new guitarist" line was that it was in reference to Bonnie because previous iterations of Bonnie were guitarists. Before the Pizzaplex, Bonnie was the only character associated with a guitar, so the workers might have assumed that Bonnie would be the guitarist in the Pizzaplex as well.
This is probably just reading too much into a mistake made by the writers or some attempt at obscuring the identity of the mimic, but I think it could still very much be a cannon connection to Bonnie rather than another animatronic.
There are other Tales Elements in Ruin too. In the Log Ride, there is a cardboard cutout of Chica wearing a pink and sparkly dress. Which is something Chica wears in those books. In the Bobbiedots, there are tunnels that connect to specific areas of the Pizzaplex, and in Ruin we are in those tunnels.
Whilst I personally haven't read the books, the thing about the guitarrist was something I noticed the first time someone read that passage when talking about the mimic.
The only way I think that can be interpreted in any kind of logical way that doesn't cause conflict is for the mimic to arrive at the Pizzaplex before the Glamrocks were a thing, and maybe they were using older models to build a museum like part (not unlike there kinda is a display of legacy objects on the first floor). This isn't too out there if the Mimic itself was imprisoned in an underground part that vastly predates the pizzaplex as it has been down there "for a long time"
The mimic spider description, however, I really don't see how that can fit the model we got. That description could describe Mangle if you squint at it, but I don't think the Mimic would have the parts to mimic Mangle.
I feel like the lack of any major connections to any of the Tales stories (besides the Mimic) in Ruin is Steel Wool trying to tell us that TalesGames isn't canon.
I don't think that the presence of the Mimic in Ruin was meant to "confirm" TalesGames. What I think happened is that Steel Wool saw how annoyed people were that Afton was being brought back again so they borrowed the idea of the Mimic from Tales to use as a new villain. This could very well explain the differences between the Ruin Mimic and the Tales Mimic if the former was never meant to be the latter, rather just a new character inspired by it.
Any time the games borrow an idea or concept from one of the books people try to argue that the book is canon. It happened with the novel trilogy once SL revealed purple guy's name was William Afton, but that time Scott came out and very clearly said that the two took place in different continuities. Why him or Steel Wool haven't done the same for the Tales series I'm not sure.
Or TalesGames could be canon and I'm completely wrong. This is just what it seems like to me.
I think you're right, after all Steel Wool went back and renamed the Burn Trap ending to "True Ending" in the game files for the switch release. then turned around and indicated the Princess Quest ending was cannon in RUIN through the comics we find. It seemed odd to take time to rename a file then reneged on that. I really think they just wussed out and gave into the fandom not wanting Afton back. It's a shame really as that caused more issues then it solved. Infact Mimic being the big bad of RUIN made it too predictable and boring as far as story goes. If you know the ending before you start the game is there a point to the game? They would have been better off with Gerg bot turning evil at least that would have been a twist no one was expecting.
Thing is Scott still writes the story of FNAF steel wool have gone in record saying that Scott told them to add stuff they didn't even know but also that doesn't explain the baobab tree in princess quest and Scott has states frights either don't take place in the games or they do and tales continue from frights not to mention the early synopsis of tales saying "set in the same universe as the games"
Oh hey, we DO actually see some Tales easter eggs and even locations in Ruin btw. Like during the logride section, there is a cardboard cut out of Chica wearing a sparkly pink dress. Which is actually something Chica wears in Tales first. In the story, the Bobbiedots conclusion, there are hall ways that weren't seen in base game SB, that were introduced in Tales that went from one specific location to another. And in Ruin, we literally walk those same hallways that were first introduced in Tales.
@@moonknightanimations1251 when I say major connections what I really mean is characters from Tales appearing in Ruin and actually being the same exact character they were in the books, unlike with the Mimics where they have some similarities but also plenty of glaring differences.
To say that TalesGames is canon because some small details like Chica's dress, specific hallways, or stuff like the Mr. Hippo magnet are shared between continuities is a pretty big leap. I dont think that these things being present in the books and the game shouldn't also mean that important things like the Storyteller and Tiger Rock are present too without us ever seeing them. And if it does mean that then that's pretty stupid on Scott / Steel Wool's part imo
@@moonknightanimations1251chica wearing pink and some random hallways are not evidence for talesgames. the hallways are just normal ass hallways that connect to different attractions. it isn’t an idea that is unique to bobbiedots, it’s a common feature of literally every mall. glamrock chica and many chica designs in general also incorporate pink, this isn’t some sort of tales exclusive design choice.
if you’re trying to say that these random tiny details are intentional hints to talesgames, why would steel wool decide to hint at that by “referencing” these throwaway lines instead of actually referencing anything important from any of tales’ stories?
I will never understand why so many people ascribe to Talesgames so literally and religiously. It just doesn't make sense practically. I could believe it's just bad communication between book team and game team, but the books have always been so much more out there in terms of the ideas that I think they're their own thing.
I think the creators of both the games and books are smart enough to know that the fandom will be looking for hints about the games in the books, regardless of canonicity, and will write stories that contains details that, BY BROAD STROKES, also apply in the games. The Mimic exists, most of the traits it had in the books it also has in the games, its backstory is likely similar to the one in the books (whether literally with names changed or metaphorically; nothing is straightforward in this series). But they're not meant to literally take place in the games' continuity. The books definitely play fast and loose, combining characters and elements freely for the content of each individual story. I also think some stories are more 'lore relevant' than others, which I don't think is a controversial opinion but is worth reminding people of once in a while. So the details in certain stories will matter more than the details in others. A contradiction between two stories in the books is sort of like trying to figure out which ending is canon in the games... you gotta pick one over the other.
Also, I think it's worth keeping in mind that, a lot of the time, the stories are written before the game comes out! Which means that certain things that would have been true when it was written may have been changed by the time the game releases! All the more reason not to take TalesGames literally, but rather as broad strokes of the story elements.
The spider mimic sounds like some unholy combination of Mangle and Ballora, imo as a Mimic-bot. The description of it's wires sound very Funtime-era animatronic at least, given the many strong hints and parallels to Sister Location in Ruin. Edwin is a stand-in for Henry as the 'animatronic's creator' for the purpose of the Mimic storyline.
I actually think that Helpi being in the game and Tiger Rock not being used is actually evidence for this, actually, now that you've brought it up. But Helpy is strictly a game-continuity character, and so he's the one that was used, rather than importing a book-continuity character into the games.
People are way too fixated on finding the 100% correct answer even though it won't be revealed for a long time anyway. People are way too fanatic and treat their theory as 100 percent correct. Its rather ridiculous, imagine if a scientist or group of them treated their theory as 100 percent fact and based everything after that off of it, they'd rightfully be labeled crazy.
There's a real lack of cohesion in the community, and when that happens what usually happens are the formation of theory camps. People who believe one side of a theory huddle together, so what happens is they just talk to people who agree with them and dismiss those who disagree. It also just leads to more radicalization, too often now theories are treated as truth/false, to one person they're 100% true with no flaws or they are the worst theory ever created. You almost never see a theory labeled as plausible with some flaws.
Really, people need to just be more patient, every time I take a 1-2-month break, I never come back to anything 100% proven, but a whole lot of new questions instead.
Thats really why the tales being canon or not discussion is really pointless. We either know it is or isnt, we can just theorize both sides, make theories assuming it is canon, and theories assuming it isnt. The truth is no matter how much evidence a theory has, it isn't confirmed until Scott/Steelwool say it is, and I'd argue its way more fun discussing the implications of theories, rather than if theyre true or not. Arguing what's true or not is bitter, toxic, and just making noise until the answer is revealed. Discussing the what if and the implications of the opposite sides of theories (i.e. Discussing implications of if Tales is canon and the implications if it isnt) is way more fun, less toxic, I think a lot of interesting convos are lost people are most focused on WHAT, rather than how or why.
Idk about the other contradictions but I think I can solve the one about Edwin building the classics:
Fazbear Entertainment had MULTIPLE Freddy Fazbear's Pizzerias, with their own copies of the main gang. This is heavily implied if not confirmed in Fnaf 3.
"Every location is built with one extra room..."
"The safe room is being sealed at most locations, including this one."
So Henry built the originals, the first generation of the gang, while Edwin just built another batch of them for another location.
So henry made the classics, and Edwin made the "unwithered" crew?
@@Wizardjones69 Thats not what I said.
In addition to the yellow Chica, Rye Toast also acknowledged the art of Bonnie about his bowling alley: no bangles, shoulder pads or face paint whereas the most of differences the others looked was Monty without the sunglasses, Roxy in a jacket, or mermaid Chica. Rye considered perhaps there was a generation of FNAF 1 esque characters in the Pizzaplex. This led to my own idea: in the old days, Freddy and Chica sang, Bonnie was on guitar. Assuming the Mimic endo in Tales was some form of Glamrock Bonnie- do they even describe the Glamrocks with it? (I mostly get my Tales recaps from Impulse Evan and Ozone, I've only #4 in hand, but haven't looked into it directly yet) The voicebox message notes not to let her sing. What if she got restricted from singing (or even talking in general given her mute before we first leave Freddy) and got put on guitar with Bonnie on bass. Then I imagine Bonnie got decommissioned as Monty is mentioned in Storyteller with the yellow Chica, and eventually she was redesigned to white, or perhaps even replaced with an entirely new bot given a Shattered Chica is mentioned in Bobbiedots. I even questioned it or Monty Within's to be yellow. I think that sewer one was even described as missing a hand like Ruin. (Speaking of which, I think it got swapped from poster to model) However, Ruin doesn't really hold this up: the Monty backstory shows white her with Bonnie, and it's a new cutout, unless Fazbear Entertainment themselves made a hiccup there, and we've that dress cutout Assuming it isn't not connected to the Cowboy Foxy.
Bonnie's art looking classic indigo with finger claws still appears in Chapter 7, but Glamrock Bonnie is totally different: a blue paler even than Toy Bonnie, a headband and jumpsuit looking befitting for Mazercise, and no claws like messages alluded too.
Foxy is also an odd case, his enhanced pirate aesthetic from Dreadbear is still in SB, even that Longshore statue in Kid's Cove, yet where did Cowboy Foxy come from? Was he ever an animatronic here? Did Roxy actually replace him? I assumed her being there before Monty given In Space 2...
Also one tiny thing that most of the people choose to ignore. If mimic was Glitchtrap(and burntrap),than why spring bonnie as his digital form? İs not he suppose to be look like a white Tiger in the books? As a digital form?
Finally someone did speak, i always think about this why would the mimic be glitchtrap if glitchtrap is a springbonnie suit?
@@MISSWHAT-lp5om some say due to do Help wanted game. But there is so much more data about victims than afton here. So its still doesnt make sense.
Plus there is not a single attempt made in the books(that ı know) that connects mimic to afton.
@@Vilgax00 yes i agree with you, but also some say it's bc the mimic did copy afton but that's not true according to the books mimic kill cuz he's programed to pull off the endos limbs and it's sometimes mistake humans with endos and kill them blindly that's why it did kill kelly and crush her corpse in a suit(it's not a springbonnie suit), due to the fact that it did being abused by endrew after endrews son died. mimic is not related with spring bonnie suit or any kind of yellow rabbit with purple eyes and theme in fact it does not relate with afton in any way. and about the digital mimic.. we don't have much info about that other than it did get the tiger rock form.
Still think the Mimic and Burntrap have to be two separate things. The organic chunks on Mimic look placed-on or applied, while the organic thing on Burntrap is "alive". What I mean by that is burn trap is clearly burned, but the fleshy stuff is "growing" across the frame. If you look at Scrap Trap and Springtrap you see that Afton's flesh is not anatomically distributed across his body; there are organ-like chunks and "tubes" (intestines?) that are already starting to wrap, like vines, around the metal frame. The Mimic's model is clearly an endo which then took and smooshed stuff onto itself; nothing is growing out of it.
To me, the Sister Location cutscene of Mike resurrecting was meant to communicate something through how unbelievable it was; yes, Mike SHOULD NOT have "come back". He should be dead; Ennard gutted him and filled his insides; he was a sack of loose dead skill left on the sidewalk! But then he literally rises from the dead; with Scott very purposely using an animation that just looks uncanny. Mike could have staggered back onto his feet; the pixels could have gittered around and jumbled back into the standing pose. But Scott chose to show the collapse animation in reverse and it looks very unsettling. I really think that was meant to say "this shouldn't happen" or "this is not natural". Burntrap's strange gooey flesh is "re-growing" after he was burned; that's how the frame and suit parts are wrecked, but there's so much flesh left over / more flesh then was on either previous models. I also think it's important to point out that with Scraptrap's design, the exposed skull took no fire damage; on Burntrap the bones are clearly burned; they are so burned that besides the skull, it's only the gooey flesh left behind.
Not to mention, it's implied through the Stitchwraith Stingers that Light Remnant, the Components like "Love" or such, have *regenerative* and illusion-creating properties too.
Meaning by the time Michael reached FNAF 3, there's be nothing unusual about him. He'd simply be a human with brand new organs.
...which also debunks the "rotting corpse" for FNAF 1 and 2 theories too, since he would NOT be rotting.
How does Afton have the ability to corrupt animatronics through their systems though, it doesn't make any sense, mimic however can, I think there was either an error with the design, a retcon when they realized they wanted to use the mimic, or they didn't think anyone would notice
I'm pretty scraptrap's corpse head is supposed to emphasize that afton is mummified, not some ugly skull.
@@milesisstinky1 Alas, it's hard to tell because Scott's Humans blow absolute ass :V
(Not to mention being even worse than FNAF 3's by far)
I have the books (referring to Fazbear Frights and Tales from the Pizzaplex in this case) in a half-canon spot. YES, some things did happen almost exactly like I've heard are in the books with the real outlandish stuff gone (eg. the Mimic), but other stories' events are non-canon in the way they're told. GGY is a good example of that second point, where Gregory46/Dr. Rabbit did happen, but the story of GGY itself didn't. Some of the stories are just information to use to theorize, some of them are actual events that went down. But I haven't read/had a summary of all the stories yet, so I can't say much on that topic.
It's a shame there hasn't been a shark animatronic to jump.
We are in Act 2 of 3, and I'm just on the sidelines watching the Madness.
I would be mad about the whole thing, but it will be glorious cleaning up behind and writing (righting) an actually scary story out of this frayed plot.
>but it will be glorious cleaning up behind and writing (righting) an actually scary story out of this frayed plot.
Honestly, either way the fan stories WILL be wild yeah...
A possible interpretation could be that tales from the pizzaplex are just tales told by kids who visited the pizzaplex. This could explain why so many stories hover around what is in the game but don't mirror it perfectly.
Rumours of a killer in a bunny costume get combinded into rumors of a killed mimic endo and become burntrap. Then gregory hears those stories and draws the comics.
Hmm that makes sense
As much as I like Tiger Rock aesthetically, and as a character, I can think of several reasons he didn't appear in Helpi's place in Ruin:
In the Tales stories, he's only seen (and known of) by Pizzaplex customers who have been in the AR version of the future, which was a limited-time event. We don't really have anything tying Cassie to have experienced that. Not to say she couldn't have. The only other way he appears is as the tiger head animatronic in The Storyteller, which the average customer wouldn't have seen, either.
We do know, however, that Cassie's Dad was a Faz Technician, so the Mimic1 appears as a technician's "helper", and Helpy is already a much more well-known Fazbear character. Sets him up to be much more trust-able than an (in-universe) obscure character who only appeared for "that one attraction".
On a more meta-note, Tiger Rock's appearance basically would have instantly spoiled the whole thing about "Gregory", not that the fans weren't suspicious as soon as the trailers hit. Just throwing that out there 😅
Yeah I don't blame TalesGames theorists for jumping the gun when we had the first big time a concept from the short stories enters the games, even I was one when the Mimic story first came out, but there's so much weirdness it's important to at least recognize that we don't have any confirmations yet
9:20
Okay, I think we need to take a step back and heed Mr. Hippos advice: "A story is a story if you're looking into every single little detail you're going to drive yourself insane"
This is how I felt the entire video honestly.
Fr I'm going insane because of mimic it confusing me and all
This was great, thank you! Especially the later half really covers some of the frustrations I have here. Regardless of whether TalesGames is true or not, I think your point about Steel Wool largely ignoring Scholastic is 100% true. The ONLY real connection to the books is the existence of the Mimic itself which doesn't really mean much. Most of the "connections" are just the books mentioning things from the games and not the other way around.
And yeah, the bit about how Game Theory, etc are "denying the truth" when TalesGames people are doing the same thing is so true. Like you said, it's important to know so we have a solid foundation to theorize with. As it stands right now it's just not clear which side is correct.
But overall yeah, a lot of what you talk about is why I still can't really buy into TalesGames personally. On top of just, it feels odd to me that Scott would allow random Scholastic writers to decide significant chunks of his lore. I know he reviews the stories and everything but that's still handing over quite a bit of creative freedom to a large number of people. Especially in a medium where it's just so much easier to make mistakes or go off the rails without it being caught. If Steel Wool adds a yellow Chica that's going to get spotted right away. If it comes up once in a 100 page story? Very easy to overlook.
All of the latest books have referenced so many small (and big) things from SB, and gone into detail and it matches, there’s a mountains-worth of evidence to support TalesGames, and in RUIN, they make so many small (and big) references to the books
We are not denying the truth, we take what is given to us, and use the official information to to draw as accurate conclusions as possible, Matpat on the other hand literally made up nonsense that was NEVER stated anywhere, it’s a difference…
I don’t actually think Scott is allowing them to write large chunks of the lore, it’s pretty safe to assume that a lot of this information we’re getting from Tales was supposed to be in SB, but then uhm… yk what happened with that game… A lot of this information will almost certainly be handed to us once Help Wanted 2 or whatever game The Mimic shows up in next, comes out…
@@playerlgamer0592 >they make so many small (and big) references to the books
For example?
There's... the Mimic. It tears off arms/legs, if we look at Bonnie. It wears costumes (which dont even match the book costumes at all), for a few i can think of.
@@playerlgamer0592 point is that it doesn't matter what Scholastic is doing, that doesn't make it cannon to SB. it just makes it Cannon to the Pizzaplex Idea (world). The two can exist separate from each other entirely and still share some similarities.
@@playerlgamer0592i’m hearing a lot of “just wait until hw2 drops bro then talesgames will be confirmed” when just a few months ago i was hearing the same thing about ruin.
also aside from the mimic when is any of the original stuff from the books referenced
@@777SilverPhoenix777 Fair enough, but The Mimic stories themselves are all 100% canon AND in the same continunity, I don't mind excluding unimportant stories such as Lally's Game or Frailty, etc... But, Mimic related stories? 100% canon, or at the very least the actual events that happen, sure a suit might be a different colour here and there but the events themselves happened...
_It's a canon event_
They brought afton, people got pissed, they said the Mimic was actually afton (tried to even explain why it had a corpse ffs) people thought it was dumb so they changed it back again.
you, cannot convince me this was planned from the fucking start.
Lol
Facts lol
Nah people just don't know what the fuck the bass is
I'm a bassist and literally even my parents say that I'm a guitarist
Let’s just agree to that steel wool messed up here couldn’t come with a good cryptic plot for us to solve.
Honestly I’m more on the side that Scholastic is a problem narratively if they’re being handed the story.
@@siresquawks I don’t follow?
What’s scholastic?
@@victorstalnacke1717 The publishers of the books. ALL books. There are many writers from and for the books, and many "official guides" like The Ultimate Guide or The character encyclopedia are fairly poor quality. And as I spend like half the video mentioning there are tons of random differences between the books and games, leading me to believe it's more of a fault on scholastic's writers than anything.
@@siresquawks oh, now I see.
mimic is a decepticon. he's just constantly scanning new stuff for his alt mode, that's why he's always looking so different.
There’s a difference between trying different costumes on and morphing into a metal spider, or completely changing you’re endoskeleton minus one hand.
I see,coudin of Arachind from Transformers Prime.
@@siresquawks that
was a joke
related to the one you made in the video
oh sorry
It should be pointed out that Scott is credited to be the only person to write the Epilogues in Tales, which is very notable with the way he writes the sentences and dialogue
Also the reason for the “guitarist” line, is that they mistake it for Bonnie due to the rabbit like endo ears and being shipped down with the other glamrocks. The mimic wasn’t meant to be a stage animatronic or anything, they mistake them for one
Also, the reason for the design inconsistency, the mimic is said to be able to completely shift and change its form it tons of different ways like you point out. Even in the game both regular mimic and suit mimic have huge inconsistencies
Where does this concept that Scott wrote the epilogues come from?
@@siresquawks unlike all the main stories that are credited to be written by Kelly Parra, Andrea Waggener, and Elley Cooper, the Epilogues have no credit anywhere publicly or online to these writers. The only other credit for the books would be Scott, and people have pointed out his writing style in these epilogues like the ones In Frights (Sometimes ending non quoted sentences with exclamation marks and other details)
The frights epilogues were all directly written by Scott (none of the writers for frights appear on every book except for Scott, meaning he had to have written them himself) so it’s likely the exact same way with this book series too
This is a really good video and I believe touches on an 'issue' with the theory community at large that being taking things straight at face value. If taken at face value the issues in continuity between the books and the games causes all sorts of issues like you outlined. But if one were to step back and think about this information in the context of its creators it makes more sense. You have two different companies working with the same IP overseen by one guy who only occasionally steps in (I assume) to correct errors or make the changes he wants to see. What probably happened is several years ago their was a draft of ideas written up with story beats and characters Scott wanted to see. This was passed along to the two creative parties who then set out to use that information to create their products, and along the way corrections and clarifications were made until both groups had similar but not exact versions. Game dev is harder to change while in progress than writing a story is, so it makes perfect sense that the books would reference the games and not vice versa since its easier to go back and add words to a story than create new assets and reprogram parts of an already in development game. This just creates issues in the end when people look at the end product in the most literal terms possible instead of trying to account for the context of the products creation which I believe adds valuable information when running into contradictory situations like those outlined in this video.
Scott wrote the Plots in Tales.
yoo I saw Xangle! during the spidermimic part there was a G1 transformers transforming sound so does that mean you're a TF fan? and yeah the details you talked about are great and I'm pretty sure the hand that Mimic and Burntrap do share have different endos for the main base of the hand
Not a diehard fan but I enjoy a good transforming of the cons and bot variety from time to time.
I have an idea on how we went from human to alien spider robot. The mimic may be somehow reconstructed itself differently, or it could be simply that one of them was a work in progress version, probably the metals, alien spider.
On the word storyteller, if you remove the word “story”, it’s just teller.
Tell/Command Everything in the PizzaPlex on what to do.
Why do people get so hostile whenever someone tries to argue against TalesGames? It's so weird..
what if the reason the mimic looks different is because every different description is of a different mimic in a different pizzaplex? 😂
I would appreciate it if Scott Cawthon or Steel Wool would tell us if the books are canon or not rather than dividing the community.
And how would you find their statement if they made it?
@@ender01o66 Steelwool website, Twitter, Reddit, or even in-game maybe.
@@Josh651Pro Scott said the books were canon in obscure Reddit and Steam posts.
As in, all of the books are canonically set in the FNaF Universe, but are split branches from the main games' timeline.
@@ender01o66 Yeah, that's why I want to see Scott talk about tales from the pizzaplex canoncity because the community is saying they are directly in the games timeline, but like you said, Scott has stated that the books are in separate timelines of the FNAF universe which would debunk that TFTPP is in the games timeline.
@@Josh651Pro He just said the books in general were all in the FNaF Universe.
And that the Novel Trilogy and Frights were in separate timelines due to them being set during the same time as the original games, so there was no room for other stories to take place.
This is completely different with the Tales series, due to how open-ended Security Breach is lore-wise.
So, Tales is in a weird spot where there's nothing outright debunking it or confirming it to be set in the same timeline as the games, it could be either or, and no matter which it is, it wouldn't affect the overall story of the games.
However, the rule of thumb of:
"If it's only said in the books and never shown or hinted at in the games, then don't use it as evidence." should be applied with the books.
An example of this is how the 1985 date is never once mentioned in the games series, or that there's a line of Mimic endoskeletons.
I've seen so many people try to claim that ONLY the princess quest ending is canon and that burntrap doesn't even exist, which is obviously problematic for multiple reasons.
1. Regardless of what ending you get, the building doesn't shapeshift and everything inside should be the same regrdless of whether Gregory sees it or not
2. The blob exists in Ruin and its only other appearance is in the burntrap ending
3. All 3 animatronics are damaged by Gregory (Roxy's eyes, Chica's voicebox and Monty's legs) but that only happens with the burntrap ending, if you choose the princess quest ending only 2 of them are damaged.
All this means that the Mimic and burntrap ARE different endos (maybe burntrap is one of the mass-produced mimics but still)
The funny thing about tales, is that tales confirms the existence of certain characters, however if we take Fuhnaff’s most recent theory into account, HW2 will likely not end how tales ends, but will likely end with the twist that Afton is likely controlling mimic (in the form of Glitchtrap or Burntrap) which will likely parallel the ending of fourth closet when it’s revealed Afton stole a Charlie bot and made it into baby with the ability to mimic and shapeshift.
Fuhnaff doesn’t say anything factual, he literally believes Charliebot bullshit, and that The Mimic is somehow Baby??
That’s simply wrong, they would’ve towards it, if it actually was the case…
Honestly, i suspect it wont QUITE go either route...
I suspect it'd be working with him, to *learn* from him. It (as Glitchtrap) prying the Enragement Child off his mind, so it can poke him for details freely. To Learn From The Master, one could say...
Not quite *control,* but not two separate forces either.
@@higueraft571in my opinion I think it’s unlikely that William’s gone for good considering if the games story takes inspiration from the book lores (TFTP, FF, Novel trilogy) in two out of the three books, Afton has been the primary antagonist and has cheated death three (potentially more or less) times in both books (in FF he burns, then gets injected by a nurse with poison and later explodes because he is taken to the fazbear distribution centre and becomes the amalgamation and then truly dies, and in the Novel trilogy, he survives two springlock failures and being beaten up by Charlie).
10:21 the mimic semi regularly replaces its body parts and seems to act erratically at times so that probably explains why burn trap is the mimic. Also, I think that the mimic endo is being controlled by glitchtrap and the original mimic program, and in the saved vanny ending, glitchtrap was destroyed, and the original program regained control and decided to get rid of the afton cosplay so it could more easily have other cosplays
9:32 I will remember this quote for the rest of my life. -CM
11:19 A representation of why I hope TalesGames isn’t canon.
The initial description of the Mimic and then shifting to later stories and now Ruin has always bothered me because of those antennae ears.
Like am I high, or does the way the guy describes the INITIAL appearance of the Mimic not immediately make you think of Burntrap from SB? Before they kinda revealed that it was some weird mimic thing that was made a long time ago and probably has nothing to do with Burntrap, I thought that they were just straight up describing Burntrap.
Then the Mimic comes out in the DLC and it's noticeably missing those ears?
I don't know if that proves the books are or are not canon, but I do think it likely implies that the story that they were trying to tell has changed which could imply that the narrative that many of the books are trying to tell are now irrelevant anyway and are basically non canon. Like if Burntrap was originally supposed to be Afton but then they said, "Just kidding, Burntrap is just Mimic mimicking Afton and we're setting this up by explaining the initial appearance of the Mimic including his very specific ears," then said, "Just kidding, Burntrap was all in Gregory's mind and it was just the Mimic the whole time and he no longer has those ears," then the books can't really be "canon." Maybe PARTS of them are canon but like... I think it just kinda comes down to bad storywriting if that's the case, and they need to make a statement clarifying what is and is not canon from these books.
You can't make a story or series of stories that place heavy emphasis on figuring out what is and is not directly canon and has a variety of possible alternative universes where events all played out SLIGHTLY differently and then decide to retcon stuff midway through your supposed-to-be-canon book series. That just can't work. And it doesn't work. So if somebody official comes out and goes, "Yeah, the books are ALL canon but we retconned some stuff out of them cuz we didn't like it," then that's awful and I'll riot.
I mean? Isn’t burntrap confirm to be glichtrap, because is really fucking obvious
People saying this: "burntrap model is a assetflip for mimic model", so why steel wool dont made a 2.0 version of sb? Hire other team to fix the fucking models, but they DONT
Part of the reason I dont see the books as fully canon (I'd call them level 2 canon, which means canon unless the games contradict them, then its the game's canon that takes priority) is just because of how poorly written and sometimes weird the scholastic books can be.
Like my goodness the frights series had a freaken impreg story.
Some books are canon and others are not canon, but its true that they dont do a good job trying to introduce lore parts
We need a “Is Tales Games confirmed? 2.0” video since VIP and Scott’s 2nd Interview created a Tales Games tsunami ✊😔
Fnaf trying to yes/not made a book "canon", IMPOSSIBLE
4:18 in fairness, the vast majority of non musicians cannot tell the difference between a guitar and a bass guitar. It’s common enough that it gets memed all the time, so it’s not that unreasonable that a technician would get the two mixed up, especially considering Bonnie has historically been the guitarist, not the bassist. The bigger issue, in my view, is WHY DOESN’T THE BAND HAVE A DRUMMER
On a whole design change aspect, does anyone else consider it kind of ridiculous that are series known for having a fanbase that scrutinizes details to gather information would change character designs in a DLC of the same game? Changing visuals between games with different artstyles is understandable, but doing it in the same game just feels like intentional misdirection for no good reason.
Fnaf inconsistent designs of characters curse begin in pizzaria simulator and never ended lol
Omg
I honestly agree with this
Like we need more people like you
Would've actually been cool if the in-game Mimic had the ability to pop out or split it's limbs into more limbs or something like that. If the idea is it can mimic and fit into ANY costume i'd like if it would be able give itself more limbs to fit into spider type costumes like music man or idk a scorpion. It would make him a more worthy antagonist if he looked a little less regular endo-y if it wanted to.
something worth noting about your theory about Steel Wool and Scholastic being terrible at communicating to each other; Scott is notorious for being terrible at communication with people when it comes to directing the games. i'm probably misremembering this, but, i think Steel Wool straight up admitted in the Dawko interview he did before Security Breach came out that Scott will just, say yes or no to things, give them a general idea of where to go, and never give them full info on what's supposed to be going on in the current story.
i really think at this point, Scott, Steel Wool, and publishers/writers at Scholastic, need to have a sit down and talk about things, put it all on hold, and figure it out, because this lack of communication both between them and us as consumers is getting out of hand and it's made figuring out the story of FNAF way less fun than it used to be.
17:07 love the rant
When it comes to are the books canon… I like to take the simpler answer. “Yeah”. The tales books fill in enough important blanks and have enough connections to SB that I feel trying to find how it half fits is more difficult than focusing on all these details that dont quite fit, as doing so kinda muddies the big picture of what these books are doing
I cant help but see that a lot of the debates come down to things like "well this doesnt quite line up with this" and it just makes talk from either side of the debate... kinda impossible. Im just kinda rambling but I feel the fandom as fallen into a trap of breaking down every small detail and ignoring the points that actually matter. It leads to things like "Mimic was made by Henry for Charlie".
where is the evidence for that ?
@@tamaritamarileonardo394 Mimic's weird claw arm pose he does in both burntrap and his endo form are explained in the books. GGY explains patient 46. Glitchtrap's design has details that match descriptions of Edwin as he destroyed Mimic. Mimic's eyes are orange whenever he's going to attack. The books are marketed as canon. Scott himself has said Frights contains stories that directly tie into the games and Tales references frights. Bobbiedots has a pizzaplex that almost exactly matches the one we see in game and even has the main character hiding out in the hideout we find in the Kid's Cove pirate ship
The only thing I can think of that even has a *remote* chance of looking like some sort of 9-legged spider is Ennard/Molten Freddy
In any other fandom, "This place has a huge baobab tree in it" and "This place does not have a huge baobab tree in it" would be confirmation that those two places cannot be the same place. But not this one.
The mimic spider bro 😭 wtf
I’m guessing they always Intended for the Mimic to be the Main Antagonist and not Vanny, and they had to find away to remove/Get Rid of Vanny.
In defense for your "Glamrock guitar Mimic issue thing" is that the epilogues are set before the Pizzaplex is even built. Everyone knows Bonnie as the primarily guitar player up until the Pizzaplex is built and the Glamrocks are introduced to the masses. That's why that man had the guitarist ears line, he was referring back to the fact that the rabbit character had always famously been tied to the Guitar. It's not a mistake or continuity error.
Bruh 💀 Bonnie has always been a bass player
@@wrixchanger3985 no he hasn't lmao what are you talking about? Glamrock Bonnie didn't even exist during the epilogues that's the whole point.
@@moonknightanimations1251 brother, bonnie as a character has always been depicted with a bass, a 4 string
@@wrixchanger3985 I REALLY don't know how to tell you this dude but you are just factually wrong lmao.
@@wrixchanger3985 Just because the og model has 4 strings doesn't mean the intent isn't for it to be a guitar. It's stated multiple times that Bonnie's instrument is a guitar.
It really feels like the book writers were thinking about the blob when they were describing the spider-mimic, because it makes absolutely no sense if it's meant to be ruin's mimic
This would have been the perfect time to introduce Remnant if they really wanted to solidify a connection instead of just having the mimic step out of the darkness they could have shown it transforming in like some type of purple aura give it some flare imo this game is officially just a bridge to the next one I think it's possibly intentional on SW and Scotts part🤔 we shall see
The problem with mimick and burntrap at this point is that the modern game continuity is just so arbitrary. How can we know what's linked when actually linked content just changes between games anyway
3:58 Funny how Bonnie's model doesn't have those claws (or even holes for them) in Ruin.
6:25 In the (textured) model, isn't the spine organic?
9:00 That could just be stuffing from another costume, as it is shown to own multiple cloth/plush costumes.
I think the tales are in the same situation security breach was in, scott/steel wool won’t straight up tell them the story and instead just tell them what to throw in without any explanation.
One thing is edwin could be either making replicas of the animatronics for different restaurants or repairing the animatronics
If burntrap ending is not Canon then burntrap glitchtrap wouldn't even be Canon or be the mimic and because you see the glitchtrap William shadow meaning he could be gone but I'm not sure he might come back we don't really know if he gone or not FNAF like to trick you
William is burntrap glitchtrap and mimic is it own individual separate character there both separate from each other
The burntrap ending is Canon to me cuz it says true ending and princess quest ending Canon to where Vanny Vanessa was free from William glitchtrap burntrap control possession hypnotized
Vanni mask was Vanessa masks the real vanny mask that was on the floor from Princess quest and William glitchtrap burntrap need a new host body and Cassie put the vanny mask on so Cassie may become next vanny William what about all some of the Gregory comics are Canon though I think mimic shape-shifting meaning it can just fit inside the big mascot suit the mimic you know the mimic shape-shift in the mascot suit skin suit like ennard to escape
We should all get together and rewrite Tales into what it should have been.
Ok I know this is going to start as a weird comparison but I'm going somewhere with it: So in 2021 Balan Wonderworld came out to universal scorn. While a lot of that was related to its boring gameplay a good chunk of it was also directed at the fact the only way you could fully understand the story was to read a novel that was released around the same time. Gamers pointed out to reality that is games should absolutely not require basically hidden payed DLC just to understand the story. A game that came out in 2021 to universal scorn due to its gameplay? Hmm that sure sounds real familiar!
Basically this makes me wonder if between seeing that and also the whole lore hint NFT nonsense Poppy Playtime if Steel Wool purposely chose to to make their mimic model inconsistent with the one from the Tales books to retain a separate continuity. Like losing maybe some merchandising opportunities was likely worth it if it meant not being accused of milking children out of more money by hiding vital story information behind another piece of media those children would want to own. I also think Tiger Rock funkos are still going to sell well regardless of that furrybait felid's lack of direct visual confirmation in Ruin lol.
i've been saying this since the mimic showed up, there is clear miscommunication between the books and games team, heck the games are weirdly scared to use the term mimic for no reason. would it make Unreal 4 explode or something?
i think SW are where just scared to upset fans and wanted to leave things open-ended to walk the mimic introduction back if it didn't go well. by not using the term mimic they can just say it's a new endo based on the books or something. non of this was well thought out from the beginning, and we're all loosing because of it.
Well the Mimic has claws so it could be a fair assumption that it’s a guitarist
Also the epilogues take place before the Pizzaplex is finished being built so there are literal years for it to go through a design change to lose its ears.
This is my new favorite theory, that steel wool and schoolastic just absolute horrid compunction between each other. There’s no fact checking or memos shared just chaos. Just imagine, “oh shit, how’d we get two lion mascot costumes???”
I feel like it should be important to say that saying the Epilogues are just "Scholastic stories" does a disservice to the fact that Scott Cawthon himself is actually the one writing them.
He sucks at writing, they are the same quality as scholastic books.
Says who? Who’s claims he’s writing the epilogues?
@@seabass-nj2qbthat's not the point. The point is that just calling the epilogues Scholastic stories makes you think they aren't as important even though Scott himself is writing them. Suggesting they are.
@@siresquawks I’ve seen so many people say this but haven’t actually seen this confirmed, I don’t think any of us really know Scott’s exact involvement anymore
@@siresquawksI read somewhere where it was stated that Scott had directly written those stories. The crediting to the other authors makes it seem legit to me.
This is a minor thing but why does that render of the Mimic have eyelashes? did someone try to make it look like Baby?
That's just what it looks like
@@siresquawksit might just be because they aren’t clear enough, but I don’t see those eyelashes in any other render or picture of Ruin’s mimic.
This is just the Henry situation part 2.
Henry situation?
@@gaminganimators7000 Henry Emily in Pizzeria Simulator.
@@gaminganimators7000 Book Henry vs Game Henry.
11:58 i've said it before and i'll say it again.
this is what happens when take a character from a goosebumps clone, and make them a main villain. It just does not work.
Plus steelwool is not helping by making this stuff as vague as humanly possible, like they always do.
we dont even know if thats the mimic, its just an endoskeleton that can speak like greggory.
If it weren't called the grimmic in the files, i would've assume'd it was ballora miss f***ing afton, since they also have some kind of voice technology (despite it being to mimic parents voices).
its just, bad.
Steelwool needs better story writers, or even if the scott is still interacting with the games production in anyway (despite being retired)
just needs to course correct. i would like the mimic, if not for the fact we already had glitchtrap and vanny (and if they'd done better with em)
like any of this compares to the main seven.
lets hope HW2 has nothing to do with this, or everything to do with this. (yes i speak steelwool)
Just gonna say it... the sheer quantity of design differences from SB to Ruin make it almost impossible to just ignore that it's a perfectly valid reason for why the Mimic and Burntrap look differently. Roxy isn't the only one, every single animatronic is VASTLY different, they somehow went from 'standardized' endo units in shells to each band member having different builds and internal systems.
Which also completely negates the bare endos, like why do those exist if the band members have unique endos? They have staffbot and they used to have a standby band member to step in to cover shit when there was a need for repairs, so why does the Pizzaplex just have 30 or so mulit-million-dollar ghost-powered robot skeletons roaming around in the maintenance tunnels?
It's stupid and I don't think we can rule out design incompetence given how poorly Steel Wool performed previously, not everything has to be significant when you're dealing with a company like that...
I wouldn't go that far and i feel like you could parse the explination tbay after SB and before the 'earthquake' happened, they could've tried to upgrade the animatronics with new endos that werent broken, thus replacing them, and stopped halfway through due to the blob going around. Then Roxy was given her face node thingy, or whatever, but man it'd be really helpful if they just... explained it?! I don't think Steel Wool are that incompetent, and this feels like a more rooted explination to randomly change endos.
>mulit-million dollar
This is Fazbear, they probably cost like $20,000 tops.
>ghost-powered
Not Possessed.
>when you're dealing with a company like that
When you're dealing with Scott, you mean? Like the whole "Springtrap pulled himself out the Springlock Endo and crammed himself in another" thing :V
@@higueraft571 Dude you're delusional, those endo skeletons blow our current technology out of the water, no way they're that cheap. The ghost-powered thing was a joke, I know they're not powered by children... unless they are as theorized by like everyone who says the Pizzaplex is chalk full of agony and remnant or whatever.
No, I mean Steel Wool, when you're dealing with a crucially incompetent company like Steel Wool, unless you think SB was a marvel of gaming or some tripe, it's hilariously incompetent at every turn.
@@boanoah6362all of fnaf’s technology blows ours out of the water. if the gr endos cost millions of dollars, where did william get the money to make the “multi million dollar” funtimes, which are arguably more advanced than the gr endos? the answer is he didn’t because it’s a video game.
@@Shrekinspace That's the stupidest reason you could ever even hope to use, may as well just turn your brain off if you think it's a suitable excuse.
Afton owned a whole robotics business with a board of directors and everything, his best buddy was likewise a brilliant inventor pursuing advanced robotics. If there's anyone that could waste millions it's Afton, the dude doesn't give a shit and his company went on to be more successful than IRL Disneyland.
Enard seems like the better visual for the Book Mimic…
Bro it’s skill that how the mimic did morph into a spider thing duh 🙄
It might be possible that the mimic was at one point intended to be burntrap but was changed into its own thing and the burntrap ending was made questionably canon with the comic strips instead.
My take on it has always been the books have a sort of superposition of canonicity.
The books take place in the universe of the game and are canon until something doesn't fit in with the game then it becomes an alternate course of events that could have happened.
Just like how the different endings of the mainline FNaF games have aspects that are canon to the lore even if the ending itself isn't canon. Security breach for instance regardless of what ending is canon in ruin we gets hints that aspects of all the endings are canon regardless of which single one is what actually happened.
dude that is stupidety at it's dumbest you can't just make up excuses on why something deosn't line up + that hzas litarelly 0 evidence behind it and also you do know in security breach it is implied that the princess quest ending is canon right.
Are the books canon?
No.
Simple. Done. Next topic.
Oh, you want the long answer? Fine...
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Frfr tho, they are canon to themselves, if thats the question. But no, they are not compatible with the game's lore. It just wouldn't work. Things don't line up right. That being said, they are clearly taking more and more INSPIRATION from the books, which I do not appreciate. It should be the other way around, if anything.
Lol
Honestly I feel like they follow the logic of the fbf books and sliver eyes trilogy. If scott or steel wool hasn't come out and establish that the totpp function differently and are apart of tge game timeline then it probably isn't in the same continuity.
The books establish ideas that makes us wonder where these ideas might exist in the games. For example he talked about how inconsistent the appearance of the mimic is like the spider appearance. But i doesn't think its actually inconsistent because it might just be another endo running the mimic program. Why would they do this? Probably to say what matpat said about the blob, its another version of the mimic.
Edit: also side note this serise is for security breach which is a massive mess with tons of unsolved answers and the books were established to answer questions of the past. Past now being sb which again had a ton so the answer might hit people hard in the head with its answers like GGY. Which leads to people believing its apart of tge game timeline because of how hard it hits people in the head.
Canon =/= Continuity
Continuity = One, unbroken, continuous timeline with a clear throughline and a beginning and end
Canon = The official collection of media per the rights holder
The books, the games, and the film are all canon, but they aren't all in one continuity. Scott understands the difference, and has previously been specific about how the books are CANON, but not within the CONTINUITY of the games (this was during the OG era though, of course). What that means is the books are official FnaF canon, which just means it's an official piece of the FnaF collection, per the creator.
Dude I’ve done this rant a million times on this channel. I’m very aware of this, and in the video I largely use “in the game continuity”. Canon is mainly for ease of explanation and the thumbnail, to sell the idea of the video better.
Yeah I could definitely tell in the vid that you get the difference, this is more directed towards the community.
Fazbear frights weren't Canon per say. They had ideas and details that were Canon, like revealing Aftons name, but the stories themselves weren't. I treat Tales in much the same way. I imagine Mimics backstory will be different in the games.
I have a theory that the Tales books and Security Breach games are telling the same story but in different perspectives. The books are focused on the Mimic while the game is focused on Glitchtrap evolving separate from the Mimic code from HW with William's agony/spirit taking over it and trying to take over the entire program while when he failed his last ditch effort was to stop the Mimic from regaining control.
The Mimic is obviously not trying to mimic William as we once thought, has definitely been trapped pre FNAF 6 via being far below the location (possibly Fredbear's Family Diner) and neither Vanessa or Gregory don't know who the Mimic is while they have obviously been down there before whether before or after they were free by Gregory's backpack being down there. What do you think?
Carousel is from the books, dream sphere is from the books, Princess Quest isnexplained in the books, Burntrap is explained in the books, GGY/P46 is explained in the books, The Mimic is explained in the books, the indie dev is explained in the books, AR world is from the books, Glitchtrap's control is explained, theres literally an entire story in the Tales explaining fnaf 4 and featuring Ballora and Lolbit
I think its fair to say the books are canon.
Not the same carousel, dream sphere kinda, Burntrap barely by association, 46 yes, Mimic yes but it lost half of its abilities between the books and games and a lot of context is missing between the two, don’t remember the AR world being explained- and Dittophobia has a protagonist who teleports and enters rooms with weird descriptions and discrepancies such as the Fnaf 4 room being destroyed in reality but being fine in SL.
It’s about half there but there’s still a lot of shenanigans at foot that make it fit somewhat awkwardly for me. Its fair to believe it’s canon- but I don’t think it’s canon by default as in confirmed 100%.
Okay, so here's my theory as a professional amateur. SteelWool obviously changed their minds a few times over the course of making these games/stories. The original story of Security Breach and FNAF VR was probably something like: "millionaire FNAF-fanatic resurrects the Fazbear brand and starts conducting cooky sci-fi experiments to bring back William so that they can become immortal together and love each other forever. Glitchtrap is created by taking dark remnant, ye olde evil energie, and pouring it on an old IBM computer. Neo-Fazbear Inc develops haunted VR video games in order for Glitchtrap to possess unsuspecting players like Gregory and Vanessa. Gregory kills his family and does computer shenanigans because he's possessed. And then Security Breach happens and Glitchboy is defeated. THE END(?)." After the plot of Security Breach was criticized by fans, SteelWool decided to retcon the entire thing. The new story goes something like this: "Mimic is an old animatronic from ye olden times. He's evil because he was locked up many years ago. He takes control of people and creates illusions because he wants to escape and do evil. He tries to escape, but fails. THE END(?)" Or something like that. Aaaand that's my interpretation of the new story! It will probably change a lot in the next game, so take everything with a pound of salt.