Delphi Common Rail Diesel pump Autopsy Pt2 -Hyundai Terracan and Kia K2700 pump
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Supplied by Delphi to Hyundai/Kia motors, this pump is used on a few different models including the Terracan CRDi, and the Kia K2700 light truck.
Not easy to see how it died, the aluminum outer shell marks have nothing to do with it, but the lift pump shows some odd chatter marks. the damage will be on a microscopic level.
![REGENERACJA WTRYSKIWACZY COMMON RAIL [Diesiel Common Rail Remanufacturing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZdY-_7j9BFQ/mqdefault.jpg)
1980 my dad bought a diesel Passat. First mod he did was install a truck diesel filter and electric lift pump to it, and the first time he looked at it the weekend after fitting it he found it 3/4 full of water and crud. As the pump that time was about 1/4 the cost of the car he called it a good investment, even though the only filter he had was a 1" inlet truck one that took 2l of fuel to fill the bowl, and his hoses were 8mm. He took his workshop and got them to drain the diesel tanks, wash the insides and install extra fuel filters on inlets for filling and on the bowser side as well. That fixed the fuel contamination, and also dropped the breakdown rate slightly. The trucks were quite happy as they had massive inline filters that were changed at every service.
A very interesting video. Î am still trying to work out how the pump functioned. It would appear those bearings are rotational cylinders working in series to create the high pressure.
Anyway, last year I brought a kia sedona (carnival) 2.9l diesel. Straight away problems with the injectors. Fortunately I had a 6 month warranty.
6 weeks and new injectors, reconditioned fuel pump (the exact one in this video) and a fuel tank / lines clean. all good.
Now it runs a lot better.
Warranty cost ...... £2800 glad I wasn't footing the bill.
Long story short, these Delphi injection systems are quite weak compared to bosh injection systems. Kia use bosh these days.
Here in the UK the Delphi system is know to pack up after 60.000 miles regardless of what fuel brand is used.
Ford used them about the same time on their diesel cars so there is a history of issues here
Great video, are you able to figure out how the pump works. I can't figure it all out
The pump appears to have small check valves inside the central core, and fuel passes in through small passages behind the springs or somthing, I will have a closer look tonight and break out the USB microscope
This is why I run a lubricity additive in my diesels, and im in the states. Even in my old diesels. That bit is got to be the pwm signaled spool valve solenoid that meters the fuel flow and thus pressure of the CR pump. Also, those tiny pns that popped out from under the rollers were the high pressure pump elements. Look at them closely, they will gall up and make metal debris and even seize into the pump body. I have found that on the Bosch CP3 pumps on GM duramax diesels. Very interesting design compared to others. I don't think a vane lift pump was the best choice for this but cost said so. CP3 uses a gear type. Anyways, great job! Cheers!
That thing with additive.. for cars there is so much "snake oil" sold, how in the world you know you buy right stuff you really need.
These pumps are machined to extreme standards of fine tolerance and rely on the fuel providing sufficient lubrication to prevent damage. Using poor Diesel mixed or contaminated with kerosene/ paraffin the lubrication will be lost and rapid wear follows. To this end folks add 2 stroke mix but be careful here also, some 2 stroke mixes will break down going through the injector and produce a sort of thick wax in the injector which will need cleared out occasionally. Some people add other fuel additives but again be ware some of these will alter the fuel lubricant quality. In brief put your efforts into getting the very best fuel, if you want to use a lubricity additive try to get an anti gelling one with no alcohol and cetane improver . These will give the lube of 2 stroke but keep injectors clean as well.
How often should be used diesel fuel additives???
Nicely made stuff. It shows that it only takes the vanes to chatter to render the pump and injectors useless.
My last car, a Peugeot 306 2000 HDi used a common rail system from Bosch. Pretty reliable systems, I bought a recon pump that was meant for a different engine and with a couple of mods it went from 90 bhp to 170 bhp. I find it strange after working on a 06 Golf TDi I have now that has an "older" style injection system than the French car from 2000 which has a common rail system. French leading the way! :P
Willhemmens how you got 170hp
The solenoid in the back (brown one) is the IMV inlet metering valve it controls the pressure for the rail if you disconnect it the pressure goes up to aroun 2250 bar
This failure is very common here in Romania with Renaults and Dacia, our national car wich is made by Renault, even after installing new pump and injectors, for around 1000-1500 Euro. Some guys found a way around this problem,wich is to leave out all the components from the low pressure side and fit a lift pump (with about 4 bar output pressure, instead of the 7 bar in the original setup)in the fuel tank. Of course, they are using the same pump after a lot of cleaning and tricking the ECU to not notice the pressure difference. It seems to work fine.
Delphi parts r shit ,there injector get stick ,there pump r not good they make whole shit and r more expensive
And how do you fit the IMV? It must control the fuel from the low pressure side.
french cars, i want to vomit sir !
I actually agree on what made it die; because these CRD Pumps are made to EXTREMELY TIGHT Tolerances; any debris in the fuel not caught by the Filtration system will TRASH that pump, and the microscopic metal particles that are forced into the Injectors from the Pump will trash the injectors too!
That solenoid. It's actually a fuel pressure regulator.
There's a sensor on the fuel rail. Basically it opens and closes to maintain the right output pressure.
Mine jammed. After the two screws, they just pull out. There's a bit of a filter on it but it's not very fine. More like a teas strainer.
You can buy a new seal kit. There's about 20 of the litte buggers.
that thing on the back on the high side is the pressure regulator. Unplugged, the pump would default to maximun pressure
Wow $6800 is really expensive for a diesel pump, awesome video i can see by the high pressure full pump all of the sucff marks. And ya the fragments would be microscopic, its always expensive to rebuild the electronic fule system; and bad diesel dose a lot of damage to expensive fule injections.
I've read that ultra low sulfur diesel mandated for street driven vehicles has not the lubricity of regular diesel for tractors gennies etc. Injector failure is commonplace and presumably high pressure pump failure as well.
eco-friendly ignorance at work. The logging industry has had a lot of problems dealing with the low sulfur fuel and damage to equipment.
True avoid that shit it's do dry that you can hear the injectors
That solenoid thing on the end of the pump is a fuel metering valve, causes all sorts of problems. I suspect that was maybe the only problem with the vehicle. Apparently doesn't show as fault codes. Same pump as fitted to Ford transit UK by the look of it.
I replaced mine but turned out to just be a leak on the O rings. Common to find on Ebay UK.
Hy! The biggest problem in a diesel car is not this pump! The pump will never fail when enough diesel is pumped from the diesel tank to this pump. When the fuel pump in the tank have a failure and therefore less/no fresh diesel goes to the high pressure pump immediately the high pressure pump can destroy all part of the rail...
Question is whether the pump ingested trash from the tank, or the fuel lacked lubrication and the trash all came from the pump. If the trash all came from the pump, I wonder if the heat treating or case hardening was inadequate for the abuse (poor fuel quality?).
Same problems happened here in Romania with these Delphi pumps on renault dci engines becouse they are lubricated by the fuel and since the diesel was "dry" (no sulfur added in it for emissions reason) it couldn't perform the lubrication so the pump ran metal on metal hence the metal shavings going into the injectors. The solution ppl found was to add to every tank of diesel some oil used on 2strokes engines to mix with the fuel. Here is a fix to this problem /watch?v=uhIfUxh0rHg
the addition of 2 stroke lube does indeed work, the local Hyundai dealer rep promotes its use in all early diesel Hyundais and other cars running this pump setup!.
how much did you put on the tank? i mean ML
@@Aussie50 sir how much do i need to put per litter?
I’m told it’s a good coloured dust that signifies death. I expected to see a bronze bearing in there somewhere though.
I'd be fairly certain the device on the back of the pump is the Pressure Regulator (as someone else mentioned below, sometimes known as an FCA in Bosch world) - there'd be a pressure sensor on the fuel rail - which then the ECU controls the Regulator on the back - that would bleed pressure I'm guessing back up the core of that central casting. These Delphi systems run at a peak of 1600bar (23,200psi) - interesting design though, not seen a "cam ring" style pump before.
This is why I concider common rail to be the oncoming death of the diesel engine, to operate at such high pressure, tolerances have to be so fine that the fuel quality needs to be almost up to laboratory purity, in the real world this is so hard to achieve consistently. I'm a forklift engineer and just starting to see these engines, the amount of 'damage' is so small it unbelievable! As said if it was a hydraulic pump of some sort you wouldn't give it a second thought!, Just a bit of 'wear and tear'. Long live the inline pump! Just a shame to see something that was so simple and rugged turn so highly strung and temperamental.
I have to agree with you, the excessive complexity and tight tolerances make it a very fragile system. I have a Mercedes ML270CDI with a lot of KM's on it and I can see that the previous owners have replaced the injectors at the very least!. however, it produces and insane amount of power and torque for a 2.7L, so I do see the advantage of common rail, its strong and efficient. when its working that is :p.
Working in a foundry I had numerous portable hydraulic power packs around and they would often get covered in molding or blasting sand, even getting into the quick connects. it took years for it to damage the pump or seals enough to make the unit quit!
+deezelfairy I will never EVER get rid of my 12 valve cummins for this reason alone. My inline pump has over 270,000 miles on it and still going strong. Ford IDI and old school Cummins RULE!
Kyle Fegley All old diesels with mechanical pumps rule! So simple its incredible.
@@Aussie50 ML270 , my condolances , ,
Somebody ran illuminating paraffin through that pump. That will kill those style pumps very quickly. Best additive to uncertain diesel is to add some 2 stroke oil 100:1 every full tank. It at least will lubricate the pump better.
yeh, 2 stroke oil was suggested by Terry's friend who happens to be a Hyundai Dealer Service Manager, this is after this pump failed tho.
The fuel that killed it likely came from a United station.
even 2T oil can make carbon deposit ! Those engine fuel systems are too SENSITIVE to any diesel which does not have laboratory specs. You want no problems GO FOR OLD diesel from VW or Mercedes 123...
@@chriscross4994
Just add diesel injector cleaner every 3 months
hi, many people are saying using two stroke oil at a ratio of 200:1 mixed with diesel does wonders in modern engines and compensates for our low sulphur diesel. any thoughts Ed?
Now I know why Cummins wants a filter good down to 2 microns. Oh and also I think the thing on the back of the pump was a fuel control actuator, it is what sets the duty cycle of the pump and therefore rail pressure. (I am a diesel tech who works mostly with Bosch so my terminology might be off)
I did manage to get the device on the back off and you are right, its the pressure control actuator.
I will get it back from work and give it another go-over including microscope inspection of some parts :D
The "High pressure transducer" is in fact a metering valve. The back end is where the fuel comes in, and is probably low pressure whilst the vane end is near where fuel goes to the rail. (The metal pipe you took off in part one is the feed to the common rail). The other transducer is for measuring fuel temperature.
+Benedict White Actually, I've just checked on my car. You are right about which is the high and which is the low pressure end, but the solenoid is the metering valve and controls how much fuel goes to the HP end to regulate pressure in the common ail. The other one measures fuel temperature.
I´ve seen this on 3 or 4 CRD pumps from vehicles like Renault Trafic or Dacia Logan. All these pumps had the same fault like yours. It´s a known problem with Delphi pumps...
change diesel filter every 6000km not 45000km like reno say,filter is size of coffee mug,too, small also at diesel filler flap/door rubber boot may leave water into fuel tank from rain or power washer when cleaning car,water kills diesel,i also use lucas injector lube in every tank fill,160.000km going like a train.best little car i ever had,diesel filter on net for 12euros
the route of the problem is 2 of the primary pump are stuck in the closed position, look at 1.51 on the video
Blemsters Blemster
Quite possibly!!!And if that is the case,they replaced a good pump with another good pump.... this shit goes on all over the world!!!! It's world war 3 in motion.
Not sure what you mean...is it the paddles that have lost their springs?
Not sure what i saw there, but when you pulled that plate out at the beginning, 2 of the vanes looked wrong, did they turn over and drop the springs when you separated it, or were they like that already ?
Clever design Ed, shame it cant be used for oil, looks almost new :-(
ill now watch the start called "Pt2" lol
That big bearing on the input shaft is what's called a "Thin Section" bearing. Most likely made by Kaydon or SilverThin. Does it have a part # on the OD of the bearing? Looks like a B series, 3" with a plastic separator. It'd have a part number like AB030XNO or something..
Sir Thank you very much, if i have a lot of return on my pump what is the solution? opening it and just clean it? or what should i do?
Wow, I don't know on these hi pressure pumps, but the blades in the low pressure pump seem to be installed backwards.
Wear on low pressure rotors can be caused by blocked up pick up pipe or running low on fuel all the time aeration of fuel will wear housing so a deisel man told me he advocates fitting a low pressure pump by tank to prevent such wear . Did hear a big business who told drivers to not let fuel level drop below half a tank were possible eliminated problem
It's a very useful look inside. To be honest, I cant see where it's damaged. I see yhe scuff marks. I would love to know what caused them.
Thanks for the video.
was für ein Mist ..... wen man leicht an der Pumpe dreht merkt man wenn die Pumpe kratzt.. Dann ist sie kaputt oder verschlissen. Aber Danke für das Hochladen um anderen zu zeigen wie die von innen aussieht. Es fehlt aber die Darstellung wie du die Welle herausbekommen hast um den Simmering zu wechseln. Ansonsten kann man das Unterdruckventil einstellen. Zwischen Unterdruck und Hochdruckbereich
What if I keep adding a little bit of two stroke oil in the fuel tank to avoid this from happening?
Good information sir.
check your fuel filter as well as your fuel pump at the tank.
Thank you :)
very nice work
i think you uploaded part 2
I once ran water by mistake into my Ford Diesel van, I was using one pipe to transfer fuel and needed some water so used the same pipe to transfer it. I totally Forgot to clear the remaining water in the pipeline before reconnecting it back to the fuel tank..... stupid me the pump failed after less than 30 seconds!!
interesting in there!, OZ fuel is cheap SE Asian Imported, i come across a bad batch from time to time!!
Hi! i opened a Lucas-Delphi pump and i was surprised that there is no spring. the document says 4 spring pushing the paddles. Were they grinded accidentally by yhe primary pump. Can you please tell me where can buy those springs. thanks
ed, you've put part 2 up and called it part 1
Aussie50 Is this meant to be part 2?
yeh I misslabled them :(
All good :)
nice meka
Very informative thanks
i always run 2 cycle oil in my diesel at about 150:1
Rest in peace ed
Probably run dry at some point
It’s a Actuator on the back of the pump
I got tired with this pump, even just after repairing it, the pump lost its pressure soon, why??
Hi,
isn't this more pump defect, not poor quality diesel or not having replaced filters?
Any contact info, even privately, where you got used or remanufactured pump / cheap injectors?
Great video apart from it being marked part 1 on part 2, look forward to the next videos Aussie50
Common rails don't work in Zimbabwe either for the same reason. If you are fortunate enough to find some diesel it's going to be crap.
I've always wondered if waste oil could be atomized coming out of an injector. Any thoughts?
Yes it can be, that's one of the parts to build a waste oil burner.
waiiit...why is part 2 before part1?
Just goes to show, take shortcuts in design, and failure is always a guarantee... :P
Manufacturer must put filter on each injectors in. just like two strock diesel injectors.
Or at least another filter on the main fuel line to the rail.
What are the symptoms of this debris in a running engine?
Hard to start, rough idle, CEL on, low power.
all related to low injection pressure.
It seems like after CDI hit the market, engine and CDI parts are expensive parts. Blow a Ford 6.0, 6.4 its $14,000 before the emission parts!
Silly pump, metal flakes aren't for eating.
unfortunately the injectors ate the metal flakes at a few tens of thousands of PSI, not fun :(
denso pump ?? like hp0
what if i remove the low pressor part and replace it with a electric pumpe
I just cut the line and added an electric pump. No problem at all.
Of course, now I've seen inside, I think that I should take out as much of the low pressure pum as I can. I don't know why it's stopped working. I thought a seal but, I don't know. I don't want it to grind itself up.
@@dalekify and how about the IMV?
После такого вскрытия. Насос можно выкинуть. Ролики не в коем случае нельзя переворачивать. Иначе они заклинят. Вопрос времени
most likely someone putt gasoline instead of diesel fuel in the car.. gasoline = no lub.. a mistake more common than one thinks
the car never had gas put in it, but garbage diesel is easy to get here, just go to United Fuels, its known to kill old mechanical injected diesels, much less CRDi systems.
i'm from europe (Portugal) i guess our diesel its ok.. i've recently dismantled a volkswagen injection pump from the 80's just for the fun of it.. boy that thing looked as new from inside.. the car had been running from 1985 to about a year ago.. barly any scoring inside.. although the owner sayd he put some engine oil in the the tank from time to time in the last 5 years
Lo malo es que no esta en español ese video
Pressure valve
We recon the wife put normal fuel in it and won't own up.
anlatır iken Türkce alt yazı geçermisiniz
ok
I am injector mechanical job
lol Hyundia xD