The way I understood the trap was it locked your feet to the ground. With it only having a capacity of 6 people, if 7 were on it meant no one was locked to the ground and anyone one of them could've jumped off, rogue moved so fast he switched the 6th space with Ruby
This is Doctor Who! He left behind the trauma of the time war and moving forward and loving life. Honestly refreshing after 20 years of trauma .. Doctor regenerates changes adapts! I love seeing him dancing and light hearted! Rouge is very river song and captain jack! Also to those hung up on the concept of concept of sexuality.. he's an alien thousands of year old meeting other species that don't fall in to our neat labels ! Oh and 9 and Captain Jack FLIRTED and 10. As 9 said he does "dance" 😉 Those who want the "old" doctor .. would it have lasted 60 years with pretty much William Hartnells type doctor Decade after decade ?!
The moment when Rogue proposed to the Doctor, and the Doctor rejecting made me think of River and although they were trying to get the Chuldur outside, part of me couldn't help but think that the Doctor was thinking of River in that moment and that's why he had the reaction of "I can't".
@@SamuelBlack84 it's a science fiction series but in that moment they were acting out a soap opera kind of scenario to lure the Chulders. 😊 Did you not watch the episode?
@Thief555WWJD I don't want gay crap in what used to be a favourite programme They've ruined it with that, and its tedious pandering to every pathetic woe is me cause This garbage is yours now and you can keep it
@@SamuelBlack84there's no room for sexism and discrimination in science fiction, unless it is the point of an episode and to show where those things lead to. I suggest moving away from sci fi if you hate things that are different
2:39 Indeed that was a callback to the First Doctor. The exact line said by William Hartnell was "Thank you but don't call me Doc, I prefer Doctor!", which he says while patting the offender on the back before quickly getting back to the task at hand lol.
Every Doctor was adamant to be called DOCTOR, except 13th who let it slip all the time (maybe a gender thing, to translate into different languages that have a different male and female form for every name & job description). In extended media the 11th Doctor even becomes sarcastic about being called "Doc", asking the other party, if he really thinks he does look like a dwarf (referrring to the Disney "Snow White" naming of the 7 dwarfs there). Americans - as being barbaric - have been allowed to abbreviate the name Doctor to Doc - even with William Hartnell (or the Doc Holliday confusion would not have worked)
In the Eighth Doctor novels they mention that the Doctor has three seperate Ninth incarnations - Shalka, Ecccleston (now Hurt instead), and the Rowan Atkinson one. It comes up a few different times, so it seems like Shalka just fits there and the fact there's three could be put down to Time War shenanigans splitting the Doctor or something
I think the Doctor’s reaction to Rogue proposing was very genuine. Not saying he can never fall in love again, but how many years did he spend with River? I’m just saying he’s carrying around a lot of pain.
I think Rogue was genuinely proposing: and his reaction afterwards where he runs after the doctor was kind of like a: oh you thought I was bluffing I was it was all part of the plan
I know people don't like taking Jodie's run as canon but I think her talk with Yaz in her regeneration episode showed pretty well how the doctor never wanted to fall in love again because of the pain of losing everyone they have ever loved. I would like to imagine that after 14 spent his retirement on earth with Donna he opened his hearts again and is more open to falling in love again now, but when Rogue proposed he just thought of his previous marriages and it became too real so he ran away.
@@SnowLily06 I didn’t really watch Jodie’s run. Not out of disinterest but there was just way too much content out there in general. I don’t like speaking on things I haven’t watched and can’t correctly reference.
@@The_Cold_Slither oh yeah that's valid, I wasn't trying to call you out for not mentioning it or anything I just agreed with your comment and wanted to add more context to support it 👍
I don't think they're necessarily making the Shalka Doctor a pre Hartnell Doctor, if you recall what the Toymaker said in The Giggle, "I made a jigsaw out of your history, did you like it?", this line could be used to explain strange things that don't fit within a linear timeline of the Doctor's life, it effectively means that the Shalka Doctor could exist alongside the War Doctor as the direct regeneration from the Eighth Doctor
Which itself is a callback to the First Doctor when William Hartnell said "thank you but don't call me Doc, I prefer Doctor!" way back in one of the early serials.
I totally remember that! :) That also reminded me about Trial of a Timelord part 13: the Ultimate Foe when Mel said to the Sixth Doctor "That's it Doc; now we're getting at the dirt!" To which Sixth responded "Doc?" in disgust. The Doctor doesn't really like being called Doc lol
I thought it was extremely brave to attempt a remake of the Empty Child / The Doctor Dances without including any of the things that made those episodes good. But fortunately the writers brought in enough good new stuff to make it shine. Playing as humans just for fun is an idea we don't see enough. You mentioned Enlightenment in your last video, and of course before that came the Time Meddler, but those are the only examples that spring immediately to mind. Maybe the King's Demons fits the same pattern, but Kamelion for one didn't enjoy himself. I think the Chuldur have plenty of potential. This group was highly dangerous despite being petty, disorganised and skimping on their research so badly they didn't even know Britain was at war with France. Imagine what Chuldur could do if they put in the effort to convincingly replace an important historical figure - or multiple rival figures. I was very relieved to see Rogue as a rounded character, instead of the offensive stereotype Captain Jack was (and is). I would like to see him again, the question though is how his relationship with the Doctor is going to develop. Of course, his bird of prey cloaked in the park reminded me of Star Trek IV, one of the best science fiction movies ever to feature Vancouver cosplaying as San Francisco.
For Rogue's sacrifice, the Doctor modified the trap to hold 6 people, and said it wouldn't be able to hold more than 6. When Rogue stepped in, there was a small window where the trap was over capacity, so somebody could move out of it. That's why he shoved Ruby to the floor, so none of the shape shifters would get a chance to move out
@@SnowLily06 Yeah, he said he modified it to trap a maximum of 4 people, then Rogue remarked that it was possible there were shapeshifters they didn't know about, then the Doctor hit it with his screwdriver again and said a max of 6, but going beyond that wouldn't be possible
when the doctor programs the triangle thing it can only hold 6 max so when rogue put the other one in there was 6 max and so rogue jumping in would make it 7 so that he can push out ruby
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was fun and campy, very Doctor Who, plenty of running (!), and clever banter. Plus, it added a new level of insight into the Doctor’s current psyche. He’s finally ready to let people truly get close to him (“Ruby’s my best friend”, and starting a very connected relationship with Rogue). But… He’s quite not as carefree and emotionally healed as he claims to be (“I’m just here to have fun” “I’m free to travel the universe!”). The way he was insisting on putting the tragic loss of Rogue behind him so quickly wasn’t emotionally healthy… It shows he still has loss issues or old wounds he’s avoiding dealing with.
I really wish Doctor Who was more 13 episodes. I think with this series being full of change with Disney, Russell returns and being after the Bi Generation, 13 episodes would allow 15 and Ruby’s first outings/ friendship to have a lot more to do, would give us more Doctor Who and the season story arc could breathe and have more build up. Will say with the smaller season they’re handling the story arc very well with the mystery.
The episode count has nothing to do with Disney. This is just modern day television. Shows take longer to make than they did 15 years ago. Frankly, it's either this or we wait 2 years for a new series just for an extra 4 episodes, which, let's be honest, would just be pointless filler episodes anyway.
I think the crying is a recurring clue, similar every episode's Susan Twist sighting. I don't think it's just, 'oh the Doctor cries now.' I think there will be a reason for it.
I like your idea. Yes, I think we saw that in this episode. He insisted he was fine, wouldn’t stop to say, “What the he!l” until Ruby makes him. It’s like even though the Doctor insists he’s all healed up and emotionally healthy, just beneath the surface is a raw, wounded place that gets triggered, and he’s trying to imagine it away.
I see it as a Signet of him breaking. After So many years of running the timeless child reveal was too much and the horrrific reveal of Rubys Parents might be what willkick start his own search for answears so he knews and doesnt need to be paranoid
I think this could make sense, but I also like that while we don’t just back away from serious Doctor moments, we also get moments where he’s forced to just sit, and think about it. But honestly, I think him crying is just because he’s a more emotional Doctor, and he NEEDS to let himself process his emotions more. He’s got tons of trauma, deep dark secrets, he feels weaker due to being literally being ripped in half, his personal history is constantly being brought up, I mean, I get he’s the Doctor, but if he’s more emotional, why WOULDN’T he cry every episode? A monster just like him, seemingly misunderstood, and the last of its kind, was about to die. He has to face his trauma of the Toymaker SO SOON after it happened, and he feels like he won’t make it out alive. He thinks he’s just gonna straight up DIE, and thinks he’s losing everything he has that he’s gained in the process as well. He is stopped by pure HUBRIS from saving the last of an entire human colony. And he once again thinks that not only is he letting down another parent, but just lost his best friend ONCE AGAIN. When you put it in perspective, it makes sense he’s so overwhelmed all of the time now. Everything that he fears about his lifestyle is coming to haunt him all at once.
My problem is that this episode also has Ruby and the Doctor seperated for the majority of its runtime. This means Space Babies and Devils Chord are the only episodes theyre together for the majority of the episode. Ruby Road: Only truly meet half way into the ep. Boom: Rubys down for half the ep. 73 Yards: Doctor lite. Dot and Bubble: Lindy is the protagonist and almost no Doctor companion interactions. Rogue: Seperated for the majority of the episode. This is why it feels like their friendship isnt well developed.
I think this is just an issue with the smaller amount of episodes now, i definitely think their friendship is believable but it feels like we’ve barely seen a fraction of it
I completely agree! This episode was great. I hope we get more episodes like this going forward, we need more Doctor heavy content. I was straight up squealing when the Doctor and Rogue were interacting, it's so cool to see such strong actors really own the role.
Shalka could be after War and then that stuff happened and he became Ecelston. He has Anthony as the Master so can’t be pre Hartnell. They also show no pre Hartnell doctors here apart from Joe Martin so I’m gonna theorise she’s inbetween 2 and 3. Timelords wiped his memory and got him working for the division.
When The Doctor says "Don't call me Doc", it was actually a callback to the Five Doctors where Tegan was with the 1st Doctor (Richard Hurndall) going to the Dark Tower in the Death zone when she called him "Doc". Also in Trial of a Timelord part 13: the Ultimate Foe, Mel called the Sixth Doctor "Doc" and 6th said "Doc" with disgust.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, and it’s that RTD is writing for the younger generation of viewers and I’m (unfortunately) old at this point. I just haven’t connected with this series of Who. And no, I’m not a bigot or homophobe by any means, it’s rather the …style? The feeling that everything is so rushed? It just feels that nothing has time to develop and before you have adjusted to this or that situation the episode is resolved and over, and whoosh now the season is nearly over and it feels like I’ve barely had time to get used to the new Doctor (in fairness, I have tended to not initially warm to the new Doctor, and loved NCuti in Sex Education so he’s not even a stranger like other actors I’ve never seen before becoming Doctor Who: I didnt really like Matt Smith until his 2nd series, Capaldi until his final series, etc). And as much as I absolutely was thrilled RTD was returning, I haven’t found the stories this season to be the return to form I had hoped it would be (it never crossed my mind that Who would feel like anything other than a course correction from Chibnail’s Who and a return to being my fave series of all time…it’s been an unpleasant shock that it feels so alien to me (and not in a good way!). I think NCuti and Millie are fantastic actors, the production values are exquisite but something just feels off and it’s really bothering me.. I want to love it so much! And little things seem so thoughtless…I know this wasn’t RTD’s story lest it sound like I’m totally at odds with him, not at all, but for example when Ruby is “trapped” in the triangle with the Chuldur… the Doctor didn’t even try to get her out, yet Rogue just jumps in and pushes her out…I mean if he can’t reach his arm in and yank her out,then grab some curtain rope and fashion a quick lasso and pull her out! It just seemed the Doctor stood there crying and it was either kill Ruby or send the her w/ the bird people to wherever when the doctor never just accepts “either/or”, he always comes up with something…and in any other episode this week’s episode’s impossible stakes would be easily solved with a line of technobabble or simply trying a little bit. (And I’m speaking figuratively about “this week’s episode” as the same applies to every episode, not just this particular one). And that was Richard E Grant? I don’t get that at all…never been in the Regen line up before…and the Fugitive Doctor was because she didn’t remember her…but pretty drastic change with no story to cover it. Throws off the whole “out of regenerations” calculation from Matt Smith’s era then or is it an offscreen adventure? Just doesn’t make sense…like too much of it. Sorry to sound like a ranting old boomer, hopefully I’ll get used to the changes so I can start enjoying my favorite series again!
I feel exactly the same but i feel a bit odder because i am 25 and i think the doctor should be more appealing to me but he is not and this series does feel rushed and just, weird i guess? Feels like there is no time to actually develop the doctors and rubys relationship, or in this episode for example, his relationship with Rogue felt just super rushed and forced like what the hell are you doing proposing to someone you just met like an hour ago
Yeah, I didn’t want to sound phobic (absolutely not at all) but since when is the Doctor so…horny? The Doctor loved Rose, The Doctor loved Yaz, and with River it seemed a love and respect beyond human understanding, and certainly beyond human carnal expression, but wasn’t on screen if it even really happened (more in a second) and was always very platonic, safe and identifiable by pretty much everyone..I mean the closest I could compare to this was “Girl in the Fireplace” and then it was just a drunken kiss, but here the Doctor was like ready to pounce after first seeing Rogue, looking him over like meat….had he talked about a woman that way or been that aggressive it would have seemed just as out of place, maybe even rude and chauvinistic. Call me old fashioned but I prefer an asexual Doctor …caring deeply for his companions, even loving them is fine but something about it moving to physical desire just feels wrong. And I don’t mean an occasional kiss or hug but the Doctor should be above lust and sex, leave that for the human companions. Back to River, it was always implied what they possibly got up to, but could just as easily been River being an insinuating flirt, since it was usually in the Doctor’s future anyway his look of shock and slight fear was humorous and seemed more a joke than anything. I dunno, maybe I’m old fashioned, indoctrinated by this age’s views on sex or maybe just old, but seemed out of place and made me uncomfortable (again, want to be clear it wouldn’t have mattered if it was male, female, alien!). And other things too - that the Doctor didn’t even try to get Ruby out of the triangle really bothered me (“tap your earrings for Jump mode!”), just reach in and yank her out, get rogue and Ruby both out and then send the bird people wherever, it just seemed like he didn’t even try, didn’t even consider alternatives despite the Doctor supposedly being so much more intelligent, yet Rogue showed it was easy to displace Ruby, heck if it’s some equal weight requirement (despite rogue being considerably larger than Ruby) throw one of the dead bodies in and pull her out, use a curtain rope and lasso her out, or a million other possibilities. And I have never watched Bridgerton but was so sick of hearing it that I kept wondering how many times the writers felt a joke had to be used….similarly, 5 or more times of turning Kylie Minogue back on w the Sonic? Funny once, twice, heck I’ll give you three for a stretch. But by the 5th time I was like “good god we get it, give it a freakin rest!”. And I even like that song! And next week is the start of the 2 part finale and who is Susan Twist and I can’t say I care much. Just seems Bad Wolf all over again. And with Season 2 already filmed, not sure they can take any audience complaints to “fix” what people didn’t like this season. Had thought the short 8 episode season was because 3 episodes were used for the 60th specials, but even so we had 2 Doctor lite stories! Just not been a fan of this series at all or the direction it’s taken and I had huge hopes of the “2nd Golden Age of Doctor Who” When it was announced RTD was returning.
I hear you loud and clear. The series feels off. Not even close to what Dr Who used to be. It's not Ncutis or Millies fault, as they embody their roles well, it's the writing. Bring the Doctor and Ruby together and reintroduce some familiar villains at least once, and drop the romantic Doctor persona, as its not necessary to drive the plot. Very disappointed with the season so far and I've loved Who since the 1970s...
When the doctor explains the not things to donna in WBY, he explains that emotions and fear are needed to fully understand a person (in that case to copy them), which is why the not things were scaring them. That was probably setting up the bigger arc here with the doctor and ruby being pushed to their limits to be analysed, possibly by triad technologies using the time windows, which is probably also why susan appears to be following them.
@@ridaa.f_ no mockery. Intrigued! I literally needed more to understand. I adore an aha moment and this might be one 4 me. I'm googling what i don't remember or didn't get. I might work it out. :)
@@mysweetbabyjames7411 Sorry for thinking that way and I'm so glad to elaborate about how I think the finale will play out based on hints we've got so far so there will obviously be spoilers from the 60th-season 1, and probably some other details we have from the finale from outside sources (will put spoiler warnings for these). I'll start with the less spoilery theories first and expand on them with the more spoilery stuff just so i wouldn't put out anything unwanted and possibly (?) ruin it for anyone reading this. I believe that Susan Triad is actually somewhat innocent towards the bigger "bad" of the season. She's probably head of Triad technologies and figured out a way to open Time Windows (re: The Legend of Ruby Sunday's synopsis), since we know for a fact Triad Technologies are very advanced, to the point where even UNIT uses it (re: The Giggle, Mel tells Donna that they're using Triad). But those time windows somehow went wrong, with the sprinkling of salt at the edge of the universe, and let a way for the oldest one/the one who waits to come in (I will consider the oldest one and the one who waits to be the same entity or related just to simplify the explanation and for lack of any evidence suggesting they're different entities). But since the time windows aren't functioning well, the one who waits is stuck in limbo trying to access this universe through Susan Triad, scattering her through all of time and space during the process. He's sending the other gods to pave the way for him, challenge the doctor to learn his tactics and his weaknesses. As I mentioned before, the doctor told Donna that in order for the not things to understand them and copy them, they needed emotions and fear to get their thoughts out, which is probably why the doctor was so "lucky" with both the toymaker and maestro, defeating them basically with luck rather than skill, they were only there to study him for the oldest one. Now with the spoilery stuff (please stay away if you don't want external source hints and teasers), we know from a disney+ trailer that the doctor will be (with Mel) in the memory TARDIS. And from another source where RTD gave one line from each episode, the one from TLORS is the doctor explaining regeneration to someone, and the other from Empire of Death is from Mel telling the doctor that "it's playing his entire life" (or something along those lines). Pair that with the Toymaker's remark (re: The Giggle, "I made a jigsaw out of your life doctor, did you like it?" without actually seeing anything related to that suggests that the Toymaker actually put together the key moments of the doctor's life and created the memory TARDIS from remnants of old TARDISes just to put the doctor in it in preparation to unleash the one who waits (he would have to wait the entire lifespan of the doctor, until this moment, to be freed). Another theory I just had (very far from reality but sounds interesting) is that since RTD said that the timeless child is the backbone of this season, could it mean that probably the doctor is from the universe or realm of the pantheon (since Zellin said that he saw the doctor "wander off into this universe" right after namedropping the toyamaker in Can You Hear Me), sent here by them to live enough (gave him infinite regenerations) and learn everything about this universe before stepping themselves into it (there are multiple shots in the trailers with entire planets ravaged by the sand we see in other clips of the trailer, so this is not an earth-centered threat only). I think some people are expecting Ruby to be tied up into this, but since RTD said that her story spans to season 2 I really doubt we'll be getting definitive answers. So this is, I think, the most logical nerdy coocoo theory i could come up with, sorry for it being so lengthy!
@@ridaa.f_ I obviously have no idea how tv works. I really need to pay closer attention 🔍 I love how you worked through this. I'm still processing, but liking Rogue as 'the one who waits'. How could he fit? Could he, having been abandoned, be angry with The Doctor for not "finding" him. Like I said, a lot to process, but I'm into it. I'm gonna do some rewatching, because 'huh?!' 🤯
Does this mean we're gonna have a surprise cameo of a Richard E Grant Doctor from like another universe or another dimension at some point? Surely the 3rd Doctor hologram being older leads credence to Sean Pertwee showing up as The Third Doctor this season rumors!
I think Grant's Doctor is an alternate universe Doctor and due to the flux and the invoking of the superstition, the borders of the universe and the next have really been weakened, allowing the scanner to pick him up and all the allusions to alternate dimensions this episode. He could also be a Doctor from a universe which is fiction within the main Doctor Who universe going with the theme of fiction. Alternatively, he's 8.5, during sometime in the Mcgann era, he was regenerated into Shalka, then eventually de-regenerated and wiped of his memories from this point (something that happens a lot to Mcgann). It would sort of mean that 10's regeneration in The End of Time would have broken the 13 limit which he was bound to at that point which makes less sense. Perhaps it's like Power of the Doctor with the master, if you can successfully reverse a regeneration, it doesn't count. I don't like Shalka being pre-Hartnell as he was obviously invented to continue on from 8 and thematically does not fit with fugitive, the timeless child incarnations or the Morbius doctors. His suave and romantic allure really doesn't fit with anything we've seen pre-Hartnell and he definitely feels like a continuation from 8, a wilderness years Doctor similar to the Nth Doctor I suppose.
Did anyone else notice that after the Chuldur are banished, except for Ruby the room is suddenly empty of humans? They were all there at the "wedding," but suddenly they've just disappeared.
I may be wrong, as it was I believe Kyley Menouge (or however you spell her name) in a Christmas special. I want to say it was the spaceship Titanic one. It was years ago... probably almost 20 years, now. But I started laughing as soon as that song played.
I know the first doctor had that line “don’t call me doc”, but when I saw it I immediately thought of Graham who called 13 “doc” throughout her entire run. Like 15 didn’t want to think of Graham when flirting with Rogue Lmao
Russell from what i heard did have involvement with the script, he said in the podcast that he was in the idea meetings for it and they tried a few ideas back and forth before landing on the idea that its bridgerton but with murdering birds.
How i see the trap is that it locks on the number, meaning that once it traps 5 people out of 6, it cant go lower but only up.. So it made sense that the only way to free Ruby was an exchange
trigeneration as the 8th doctor regenerated into the shalka doctor, the war doctor and the curse of fatal death doctor, due to the complications with that regeneration the doctor is largely unaware that the sisters did this to him
The reason Rogue had to step on the trap for it to work was due to the fact that earlier in the episode they establish they set it for 6 people, so i assume if he wanted to get Ruby off he had to use himself as counterbalance
If I had to guess I'd say maybe he would retcon it a bit and make him a doctor from before the first doctor however it is worth noting we never actually saw the war doctor regenerate into 9
In some (I forget which ones) 8th Dr novelisations from the early 2000s, it's hinted that there are somehow 3 versions of the 9th Dr. It's never explained why though.
@@purpleduke3193The Gallifrey Chronicles - another Time Lord is grumbling about the Doctor's timeline being all messed up around his ninth incarnation 😉
i hope grant is a timeless incarnation ,and is only believed he is ninth because the division s memory wipe ,and the master was there because time war complicated things(i.e:being cloned and sent into the past) and turned into an android ,and maybe the doctor was inspired by a david tennant cameo to be 10 and 14 after all
The trap if you listen, it was set for whatever amount of people like the other person said and then you had to replace one person with another person. That’s how it worked how they were able to swap out.
5:23 Actually we never saw the full regenerations from the Second to Third Doctor (the change happening offscreen between episodes) and we also technically didn't see War turn into Nine (obviously we see a slight transition into Eccleston's face for a few frames, but RTD himself has said that he believes there's enough wiggle room to where it doesn't necessarily have to be Eccleston). So, there's at least two regenerations after Hartnell where Richard E. Grant could theoretically fit in if they really wanted to, but honestly I doubt RTD will give a definitive answer on the matter since he's gone on record many times as being against the idea of having a definitive canon, and that he prefers to leave it up to subjective audience opinion when dealing with stuff like this.
RTD having the Toymaker say "I made a jigsaw out of your history, did you like it?" being the best example of RTD's distaste for "objective" canon or even canon in general. The guy literally wrote an in-universe justification for fans to individually pick and choose their own personal canon lol. I like it.
11:29 - When Rogue sacrifices himself for Ruby, the triforge-thingy AI voice says "Matter Exchanged". So I think that goes to explain that there needed to be a one-for-one person swap, and it was deadlocked that they couldn't just pull/push Ruby out.
Yeah that's definitely the justification being used, but the fact that possibility wasn't set-up at all prior to that scene made the moment feel a bit rushed. The line was clearly dubbed in-post as an afterthought. It doesn't ruin the episode or anything, not at all, but it's easily the weakest part and it could've been handled better.
@@HOTD108_ All very true - it's very obviously an late ADR addition to explain the plot hole. It's one of those things, there could have been other scenes setting it up that were cut for time, who knows! But the emotion of the moment carries it for me, so this doesn't bother me too much
I knew Ruby Survived the attack because in the trailer she hits someone with a book, but also cosplaying is what Kate Steward did in the Zygon 2 parter of Series 9
My understanding with pushing Ruby off of the triangle is that it is callibrated to lock the matter of up to 6 individuals, so when he stood on it, it added a 7th weight, overloading it, causing it to turn off till ruby was pushed off, making it 6 people again and thus turning it back on.
The reason it was so convincing that Ruby had been replaced is because she made the Chuldur sound effects when we first saw her. I immediately thought she might be faking until she somehow made those noises. They never did explain how.
I watched the pyramids of Mars, and correct me if I'm wrong but the last 5 minutes shows the (was it called priory?).anyway it explodes, but the place looked exactly like the stately home in rogue? Can someone please tell me I'm crazy?....
I think the amount of crying is just right. I think it shows how important "saving lives" is to the Doctor, which so far he always held back because of his issues.
I agree! I see the crying as "I'm going to feel my feelings when they come up so I can be free of the pain that comes when I shove them all down". I feel like that was the point of 14 and the bi-generation, he literally shed the part of himself that had pushed their emotions down and refused to let themselves experience everything.
I honestly felt lots more feelings from the new doctor because of him showing his emotions and the crying when he thought Ruby was dead almost had me in tears.
It was nice to get a standard Doctor Who episode. I do love what they're doing with this season, but I wish it was 12 episodes, with more standard Doctor Who stories with Ncuti and Millie.
What if the Shalka Doctor is somehow the Watcher due to him being erased from the timeline or something like that so he had to merge with an older/newer Doctor?
Finally, an episode that actually feels like good ol' NuWho! It wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it still had everything I could ever want from a good DW story - It was fun and camp, yet emotional at times; great setting, cool uncomplicated monsters, great character moments. I feel like I finally got a chance to actually get to know Ruby and 15 better as people, and see what they're actually like on a run-in-the-mill type of adventure. The Doctor felt more like the Doctor here than he did in many of the previous stories imo, and Ruby finally showed some real agency as a companion in this episode (she also did in 73 yards and Boom, but there she didn't really have a choice but to be separated from the Doctor; I liked that in this case, they just decided to split and she actually chose to do her own thing). I also loved the bits we got with them together, and especially the scene with both of them at the end, as I've been really missing seeing their actual relationship play out this season. I do wish it would have happened much earlier in the season, but better late then never I suppose lol :) I also loved the chemistry between Ncuti and Jonathan Groff, and his character was really interesting (Yeah, similar to Captain Jack in many aspects, including btw, referring the the Doctor as "Doc" to annoy him lol.. but I personally didn't mind it at all), so I hope he comes back in the future! But even if we don't get to see him again, it was a great choice of guest star and a very cool dynamic to watch unfold. Regarding your question on what allowed Rogue to switch places with Ruby - It was the fact that there were 6 people in the trap already, which as the Doctor said earlier, was the very max it could hold. By Rogue entering the trap himself, there were then momentarily 7 people, which allowed him to push Ruby out and take her place. I kinda disagree with you on the Ruby still being Ruby twist, tho. If anything my only, very tiny gripe tbh, is how quickly the Doctor believed Ruby was actually gone. I mean, I liked Ruby's side of it, using the earring's previously established combat-mode and "cosplaying" was very clever on her part and I can totally believe it worked. It was also well established that the creatures don't identify each other very quickly, and later explained the earrings helped with that as well, so I can even buy them not clocking her. However, personally, since all the Chuldur were in bird-form, and she was the only one that wasn't, I immediately assumed it was actually the real Ruby. When the Doctor ran off, I expected him to go search for her body, to want to verify that she's actually dead before he rains down hell on them.. But instead he just went away to cry, which was a bit disappointing tbh. I'm not one of those people who has a problem with him crying in every episode, I think that's a nice character trait for 15; he's emotional and wears his heart(s) on his sleeve and that's cool. I just didn't like how quickly he accepted it without even checking - and even if he did believe it and just felt like crying, I don't get why he had to go off to the another room to do so. I doubt he'd be the kind of person who cares about other people seeing him cry, both since he hadn't so far, and cause that's such a human male-ego type of trait that doesn't fit the Doctor imo. I felt like it kinda took my out of the moment, ruining the intended emotional punch of the flashback scene, but oh well.
Shalka wasn't actually Tennant's first Doctor Who appearance. He was in Big Finish's Colditz in 2001, two years before, as well as Sympathy for the Devil (as well as a cameo in Exile) earlier in 2003.
Yes, I was also confused about the mechanics of the sacrifice. I guess the idea is that the trap only works if there are 6 beings in it? So removing Ruby and not adding anyone else would break it?
It had a max capacity of 6. Ruby physically couldn't move until that threshold was passed, once Rogue stepped on, there was wasn't enough power to hold her. Think the Indiana Jones idol/ sandbox swap
@@paganartisan There was talk a long time ago that RTD might introduce the pre-Hartnell Doctors and there was mention of Hugh Grant playing one of those Doctors. So Richard E.Grant being a pre-Hartnell Doctor might be another possibility and the current Doctor is starting to regain his memories.
From what I could tell Ruby's feet or stuck to the floor using a force field and the only way to get her out was for the road to tackle her and knock her out of the triangle
Can’t confirm it but it seemed like the trap field could have matter added but in order to remove someone they had to be replaced because when Rogue removes Ruby and takes her place it says “matter transferred”
The Doctor's theory was that they had seen Bridgerton, and liked it so much they wanted to be in it. That wasn't confirmed, but if correct it would mean either they were time travellers, or someone sent Bridgerton back in time.
OK - I have posted this elsewhere on the tinterweb with regards to Richard E Grant's Doctor, but I thought I'd share it here too, as this is probably the only other place I think it may be appreciated: So - The Toymaker, (a being who is able to manipulate matter with thought and to whom time and space is nothing but an illusion, lest we forget), told us in the Giggle that he had made a jigsaw out of the Doctor's past. RTD has stated in many interviews that the purpose of this was to create wiggle room in whatever this show counts as canon (ie nothing, but some fans insist that it must have it, so here is the get-out clause). In doing this, he has pulled Richard E Grant's unofficial 9th Doctor into the main continuity. But it gets even better than that! Tales From The TARDIS introduced the Memory TARDIS. Dialogue presented within those short pieces states out right that multiple timelines now exist - most notably from the 7th Doctor, who says that in some of those he regenerates, in others he doesn't. RTD has stated that the effects of the Bi-generation reverberated throughout the Doctor's entire timeline, meaning that every past Doctor both regenerated and also stayed the same. But it gets even better than that! If Grants alternative 9th Doctor can be pulled in, so can other alternatives, including the "Unbound" Doctor's from Big Finish. But BEST OF ALL Rowan Atkinson is now an official incarnation of the Doctor, which I think is borderline joygasmic. But even more even more than that, in The Curse of the Fatal Death, Atkinson's Doctor is shown to regenerate multiple times. One of those times is Richard E Grant. So thanks to the Toymaker messing with the Doctors past, entwining multiverses and mashing it all together, AND the process of Bi-generation, Grant's Shalka Doctor is now not just a stand alone Doctor, but a continuation of his Curse of the Fatal Death incarnation. And people thought the Timeless Child retcon was confusing! I FECKING LOVE THE AUDACITY OF IT
I think Richard E. Grant is either a pre-Hartnell Doctor or, since we didn’t see his full regeneration, my theory is that the War Doctor somehow bigenerated into both Eccleston and Grant.
I thought this was an okay episode, I think the last three episodes raised the bar high but I don't feel this episode really come close and it felt more like a filler episode. I got captain Jack vibes as well. I thought Richard E Grant was the Valeyard. The episode was fun, probably much needed after the last three episodes. All in all this has not been a bad season.
The TARDIS had a normal landing at the beginning of 73 Yards. I think the way it's been crashing about lately is just a fun way to portray it with the modern VFX
Oh I thought this implies the Dr. was actually Walter Simeon xD This makes more sense now. I didn't know he was the 9th doctor! I think they mentioned that they increased the number of persons they can transport using the triangular thing but not the weight limit. So by standing on the triangle the rogue was able to push Ruby away because the teleporter didn't work properly at that time. Before that she was stuck to the ground like the doctor.
"Rogue is a very Doctor-like character" Could Rogue be a future regeneration of The Doctor who can't say he is The Doctor to The Doctor who wouldn't know his future?
Considering the actor playing him is both very in demand and American I doubt Rogue will be able to show up much. I give him 2 more episodes at best but really he will likely only get 1 more
For the first time in this series I watched this episode on the iPlayer at midnight and I honestly thought I was seeing things when the hologram incarnations scene came on. Richard E. Grant played a version of the 9th(?) Doctor in Scream so maybe he IS between Hurt and Eccleston. I'm hoping we get some sort of explanation in the finale.... Having Jo Martin in there was interesting though as I thought she was supposed to be pre Hartnell? Unless the series 6b theory is indeed correct.
How can shalka doctor be canon ? 11 explains he has no more regenerations because he’s actually the last one because of the war doctor and the meta crisis doctor, so how can there be another doctor in the original 13 ? (Considering the timeless child and fugitive doctor things out of the 13 granted iteration of a timelord lifespan).
In some (I forget which ones) 8th Dr novelisations from the early 2000s, it's hinted that there are somehow 3 versions of the 9th Dr. It's never explained why though.
Man I just really don't like the whole pre-hartnell idea. I'm actually all for removing the importance on how many doctors there should be and who counts as a 'proper' doctor but I just feel like there has to be some kind of reverence maintained for the first doctor being the first.
@@ivymoon5084 yes, in a 2004 short trips anthology, McGann is going grey and believes he’ll soon regenerate. There’s then a gap before we pick up with Blood of the Daleks.
Would've been so much easier if they just made E Grant the War Doctor. He basically commanded an a military in Scream of the Shalka and at least he was sort of the 'current' Doctor: 1. William Hartnell (1963-1966) 2. Patrick Troughton (1966-1969) 3. Jon Pertwee (1970-1974) 4. Tom Baker (1974-1981) 5. Peter Davison (1981-1984) 6. Colin Baker (1984-1986) 7. Sylvester McCoy (1987-1989) 8. Paul McGann (1996) 9. Richard E. Grant (2003) 10. Christopher Eccleston (2005) 11. David Tennant (2005-2010) 12. Matt Smith (2010-2013) 13. Peter Capaldi (2013-2017) 14. Jodie Whittaker (2017-2022) 15. David Tennant (2022-2023) 16. Ncuti Gatwa (2023-Present)
@@king_dot was thinking that. We didn't see the full War Doctor regeneration so what if War changed into E Grant instead. I just headcanon that there's no Timeless Child / Pre-Hartnell Doctors and that E. Grant was the War Doctor making Shalka canon and the regeneration number untouched so 11 still gets a new cycle in TotD. Since the inclusion of the War Doctor, the regenerations and the show in general has been a mess to me.
They might not be canonising "Scream of the Shalka", they might be canonising "The Curse of Fatal Death" where Richard E Grant _also_ played the Doctor
As you say, this is a non-experimental story for a change. I’d put it more strongly: it seems to me that the Chuldur would have been quite at home in Old Who, and what we have here is an Old Who story with the details updated. It’s a relatively minor story, but it feels like Doctor Who, the acting is good, I quite liked it overall.
![Doctor Who's Christmas Specials Ranked Worst to Best [2024 EDITION!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nZcBwBSv9Vg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Doctor Who's Christmas Specials Ranked Worst to Best [2024 EDITION!]](/img/tr.png)
![OH NO... DOCTOR WHO'S MOST INSANE FINALE! [EMPIRE OF DEATH REVIEW/ REACTION/ FULL BREAKDOWN!] WOW!](/img/1.gif)
The way I understood the trap was it locked your feet to the ground. With it only having a capacity of 6 people, if 7 were on it meant no one was locked to the ground and anyone one of them could've jumped off, rogue moved so fast he switched the 6th space with Ruby
This is Doctor Who! He left behind the trauma of the time war and moving forward and loving life. Honestly refreshing after 20 years of trauma .. Doctor regenerates changes adapts! I love seeing him dancing and light hearted!
Rouge is very river song and captain jack! Also to those hung up on the concept of concept of sexuality.. he's an alien thousands of year old meeting other species that don't fall in to our neat labels ! Oh and 9 and Captain Jack FLIRTED and 10. As 9 said he does "dance" 😉
Those who want the "old" doctor .. would it have lasted 60 years with pretty much William Hartnells type doctor Decade after decade ?!
The moment when Rogue proposed to the Doctor, and the Doctor rejecting made me think of River and although they were trying to get the Chuldur outside, part of me couldn't help but think that the Doctor was thinking of River in that moment and that's why he had the reaction of "I can't".
Is this a science fiction series or a soap opera?
@@SamuelBlack84 it's a science fiction series but in that moment they were acting out a soap opera kind of scenario to lure the Chulders. 😊 Did you not watch the episode?
@Thief555WWJD I don't want gay crap in what used to be a favourite programme
They've ruined it with that, and its tedious pandering to every pathetic woe is me cause
This garbage is yours now and you can keep it
@@SamuelBlack84there's no room for sexism and discrimination in science fiction, unless it is the point of an episode and to show where those things lead to. I suggest moving away from sci fi if you hate things that are different
@@ACIoannina Everyone's a do-gooder
2:39 Indeed that was a callback to the First Doctor. The exact line said by William Hartnell was "Thank you but don't call me Doc, I prefer Doctor!", which he says while patting the offender on the back before quickly getting back to the task at hand lol.
Every Doctor was adamant to be called DOCTOR, except 13th who let it slip all the time (maybe a gender thing, to translate into different languages that have a different male and female form for every name & job description). In extended media the 11th Doctor even becomes sarcastic about being called "Doc", asking the other party, if he really thinks he does look like a dwarf (referrring to the Disney "Snow White" naming of the 7 dwarfs there). Americans - as being barbaric - have been allowed to abbreviate the name Doctor to Doc - even with William Hartnell (or the Doc Holliday confusion would not have worked)
In the Eighth Doctor novels they mention that the Doctor has three seperate Ninth incarnations - Shalka, Ecccleston (now Hurt instead), and the Rowan Atkinson one. It comes up a few different times, so it seems like Shalka just fits there and the fact there's three could be put down to Time War shenanigans splitting the Doctor or something
I think the Doctor’s reaction to Rogue proposing was very genuine. Not saying he can never fall in love again, but how many years did he spend with River? I’m just saying he’s carrying around a lot of pain.
I think Rogue was genuinely proposing: and his reaction afterwards where he runs after the doctor was kind of like a: oh you thought I was bluffing I was it was all part of the plan
I know people don't like taking Jodie's run as canon but I think her talk with Yaz in her regeneration episode showed pretty well how the doctor never wanted to fall in love again because of the pain of losing everyone they have ever loved. I would like to imagine that after 14 spent his retirement on earth with Donna he opened his hearts again and is more open to falling in love again now, but when Rogue proposed he just thought of his previous marriages and it became too real so he ran away.
@@SnowLily06 I didn’t really watch Jodie’s run. Not out of disinterest but there was just way too much content out there in general. I don’t like speaking on things I haven’t watched and can’t correctly reference.
@@The_Cold_Slither oh yeah that's valid, I wasn't trying to call you out for not mentioning it or anything I just agreed with your comment and wanted to add more context to support it 👍
Look,this doctor just loves a good cry
I don't think they're necessarily making the Shalka Doctor a pre Hartnell Doctor, if you recall what the Toymaker said in The Giggle, "I made a jigsaw out of your history, did you like it?", this line could be used to explain strange things that don't fit within a linear timeline of the Doctor's life, it effectively means that the Shalka Doctor could exist alongside the War Doctor as the direct regeneration from the Eighth Doctor
He says “kindly refrain from addressing me as Doc” in the Five Doctors in reaction to Tegan
Which itself is a callback to the First Doctor when William Hartnell said "thank you but don't call me Doc, I prefer Doctor!" way back in one of the early serials.
And Dreamland, when the Doctor joked to the guy that called him Doc that he wasn't Bugs Bunny
It came from how he told Steven not to call him doc in time meddler
Oh I’m sure there are plenty of other examples, I’m just putting my favourite one here 🤪
I totally remember that! :)
That also reminded me about Trial of a Timelord part 13: the Ultimate Foe when Mel said to the Sixth Doctor "That's it Doc; now we're getting at the dirt!" To which Sixth responded "Doc?" in disgust. The Doctor doesn't really like being called Doc lol
I thought it was extremely brave to attempt a remake of the Empty Child / The Doctor Dances without including any of the things that made those episodes good. But fortunately the writers brought in enough good new stuff to make it shine.
Playing as humans just for fun is an idea we don't see enough. You mentioned Enlightenment in your last video, and of course before that came the Time Meddler, but those are the only examples that spring immediately to mind. Maybe the King's Demons fits the same pattern, but Kamelion for one didn't enjoy himself.
I think the Chuldur have plenty of potential. This group was highly dangerous despite being petty, disorganised and skimping on their research so badly they didn't even know Britain was at war with France. Imagine what Chuldur could do if they put in the effort to convincingly replace an important historical figure - or multiple rival figures.
I was very relieved to see Rogue as a rounded character, instead of the offensive stereotype Captain Jack was (and is). I would like to see him again, the question though is how his relationship with the Doctor is going to develop. Of course, his bird of prey cloaked in the park reminded me of Star Trek IV, one of the best science fiction movies ever to feature Vancouver cosplaying as San Francisco.
For Rogue's sacrifice, the Doctor modified the trap to hold 6 people, and said it wouldn't be able to hold more than 6. When Rogue stepped in, there was a small window where the trap was over capacity, so somebody could move out of it. That's why he shoved Ruby to the floor, so none of the shape shifters would get a chance to move out
Did the doctor say he modified the trap in the episode? I must've missed it and want to go back and see it
@@SnowLily06 Yeah, he said he modified it to trap a maximum of 4 people, then Rogue remarked that it was possible there were shapeshifters they didn't know about, then the Doctor hit it with his screwdriver again and said a max of 6, but going beyond that wouldn't be possible
@SinisterPixel Thank you! I was watching it with someone so we must've talked over that part
i was so confused when i heard 'bad guy' playing in the background😅
nod to the actual bridgerton show, they frequently take current songs and recompose them in an orchestral manner, including bad guy
yeah but which one of them was the Bad Guy?
@@maldaror7097 When the Doctor first met Rogue.
I know, I noticed it in a preview and I didn't understand😂
The shapeshifters probably got it from the TV transmissions in the future. Which means they can time travel aswell.
when the doctor programs the triangle thing it can only hold 6 max so when rogue put the other one in there was 6 max and so rogue jumping in would make it 7 so that he can push out ruby
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was fun and campy, very Doctor Who, plenty of running (!), and clever banter. Plus, it added a new level of insight into the Doctor’s current psyche.
He’s finally ready to let people truly get close to him (“Ruby’s my best friend”, and starting a very connected relationship with Rogue). But… He’s quite not as carefree and emotionally healed as he claims to be (“I’m just here to have fun” “I’m free to travel the universe!”). The way he was insisting on putting the tragic loss of Rogue behind him so quickly wasn’t emotionally healthy… It shows he still has loss issues or old wounds he’s avoiding dealing with.
i think that Rogue is he who waits? the last line was ‘FIND ME’
Love this theory~!!
I really wish Doctor Who was more 13 episodes. I think with this series being full of change with Disney, Russell returns and being after the Bi Generation, 13 episodes would allow 15 and Ruby’s first outings/ friendship to have a lot more to do, would give us more Doctor Who and the season story arc could breathe and have more build up.
Will say with the smaller season they’re handling the story arc very well with the mystery.
The episode count has nothing to do with Disney. This is just modern day television. Shows take longer to make than they did 15 years ago. Frankly, it's either this or we wait 2 years for a new series just for an extra 4 episodes, which, let's be honest, would just be pointless filler episodes anyway.
I think the crying is a recurring clue, similar every episode's Susan Twist sighting. I don't think it's just, 'oh the Doctor cries now.' I think there will be a reason for it.
I like your idea. Yes, I think we saw that in this episode. He insisted he was fine, wouldn’t stop to say, “What the he!l” until Ruby makes him. It’s like even though the Doctor insists he’s all healed up and emotionally healthy, just beneath the surface is a raw, wounded place that gets triggered, and he’s trying to imagine it away.
RTD wanted a more emotional Doctor, so maybe that ties into the finale or something
I see it as a Signet of him breaking. After So many years of running the timeless child reveal was too much and the horrrific reveal of Rubys Parents might be what willkick start his own search for answears so he knews and doesnt need to be paranoid
THE 2ND DOCTOR introduced the ICE WARRIORS now we get
the ARSE WARRIORS
Sorry could not resist the play on words
I think this could make sense, but I also like that while we don’t just back away from serious Doctor moments, we also get moments where he’s forced to just sit, and think about it. But honestly, I think him crying is just because he’s a more emotional Doctor, and he NEEDS to let himself process his emotions more. He’s got tons of trauma, deep dark secrets, he feels weaker due to being literally being ripped in half, his personal history is constantly being brought up, I mean, I get he’s the Doctor, but if he’s more emotional, why WOULDN’T he cry every episode? A monster just like him, seemingly misunderstood, and the last of its kind, was about to die. He has to face his trauma of the Toymaker SO SOON after it happened, and he feels like he won’t make it out alive. He thinks he’s just gonna straight up DIE, and thinks he’s losing everything he has that he’s gained in the process as well. He is stopped by pure HUBRIS from saving the last of an entire human colony. And he once again thinks that not only is he letting down another parent, but just lost his best friend ONCE AGAIN. When you put it in perspective, it makes sense he’s so overwhelmed all of the time now. Everything that he fears about his lifestyle is coming to haunt him all at once.
My problem is that this episode also has Ruby and the Doctor seperated for the majority of its runtime. This means Space Babies and Devils Chord are the only episodes theyre together for the majority of the episode.
Ruby Road: Only truly meet half way into the ep.
Boom: Rubys down for half the ep.
73 Yards: Doctor lite.
Dot and Bubble: Lindy is the protagonist and almost no Doctor companion interactions.
Rogue: Seperated for the majority of the episode.
This is why it feels like their friendship isnt well developed.
I think this is just an issue with the smaller amount of episodes now, i definitely think their friendship is believable but it feels like we’ve barely seen a fraction of it
We need more episode. 8 does not work😊
I do hope that the Doctor manages to find Rogue again
I completely agree! This episode was great. I hope we get more episodes like this going forward, we need more Doctor heavy content. I was straight up squealing when the Doctor and Rogue were interacting, it's so cool to see such strong actors really own the role.
Shalka could be after War and then that stuff happened and he became Ecelston.
He has Anthony as the Master so can’t be pre Hartnell.
They also show no pre Hartnell doctors here apart from Joe Martin so I’m gonna theorise she’s inbetween 2 and 3.
Timelords wiped his memory and got him working for the division.
IF that's where RTD is going then I'd be happy with that.
So does this finally prove that Wonka is a timelord?
Also Mary Poppins
Also Santa Claus: "Red bicycle when you were twelve."
So Pee Wee Herman is a timelord too?
This comes from the fact the Ncuti was in the running to play Wonka before someone rightly said...NO and went with Timothy Charlemain (from Dune)
@@maldaror7097 I can get behind that
when the Doctor is talking to Rogue on the balcony about brooding, you can hear Billie Eilish's "Bad Guy" in the background
Yeah it's because bad guy is actually in bridgerton
When The Doctor says "Don't call me Doc", it was actually a callback to the Five Doctors where Tegan was with the 1st Doctor (Richard Hurndall) going to the Dark Tower in the Death zone when she called him "Doc".
Also in Trial of a Timelord part 13: the Ultimate Foe, Mel called the Sixth Doctor "Doc" and 6th said "Doc" with disgust.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, and it’s that RTD is writing for the younger generation of viewers and I’m (unfortunately) old at this point. I just haven’t connected with this series of Who. And no, I’m not a bigot or homophobe by any means, it’s rather the …style? The feeling that everything is so rushed? It just feels that nothing has time to develop and before you have adjusted to this or that situation the episode is resolved and over, and whoosh now the season is nearly over and it feels like I’ve barely had time to get used to the new Doctor (in fairness, I have tended to not initially warm to the new Doctor, and loved NCuti in Sex Education so he’s not even a stranger like other actors I’ve never seen before becoming Doctor Who: I didnt really like Matt Smith until his 2nd series, Capaldi until his final series, etc). And as much as I absolutely was thrilled RTD was returning, I haven’t found the stories this season to be the return to form I had hoped it would be (it never crossed my mind that Who would feel like anything other than a course correction from Chibnail’s Who and a return to being my fave series of all time…it’s been an unpleasant shock that it feels so alien to me (and not in a good way!). I think NCuti and Millie are fantastic actors, the production values are exquisite but something just feels off and it’s really bothering me.. I want to love it so much! And little things seem so thoughtless…I know this wasn’t RTD’s story lest it sound like I’m totally at odds with him, not at all, but for example when Ruby is “trapped” in the triangle with the Chuldur… the Doctor didn’t even try to get her out, yet Rogue just jumps in and pushes her out…I mean if he can’t reach his arm in and yank her out,then grab some curtain rope and fashion a quick lasso and pull her out! It just seemed the Doctor stood there crying and it was either kill Ruby or send the her w/ the bird people to wherever when the doctor never just accepts “either/or”, he always comes up with something…and in any other episode this week’s episode’s impossible stakes would be easily solved with a line of technobabble or simply trying a little bit. (And I’m speaking figuratively about “this week’s episode” as the same applies to every episode, not just this particular one). And that was Richard E Grant? I don’t get that at all…never been in the Regen line up before…and the Fugitive Doctor was because she didn’t remember her…but pretty drastic change with no story to cover it. Throws off the whole “out of regenerations” calculation from Matt Smith’s era then or is it an offscreen adventure? Just doesn’t make sense…like too much of it. Sorry to sound like a ranting old boomer, hopefully I’ll get used to the changes so I can start enjoying my favorite series again!
I feel exactly the same but i feel a bit odder because i am 25 and i think the doctor should be more appealing to me but he is not and this series does feel rushed and just, weird i guess? Feels like there is no time to actually develop the doctors and rubys relationship, or in this episode for example, his relationship with Rogue felt just super rushed and forced like what the hell are you doing proposing to someone you just met like an hour ago
Yeah, I didn’t want to sound phobic (absolutely not at all) but since when is the Doctor so…horny? The Doctor loved Rose, The Doctor loved Yaz, and with River it seemed a love and respect beyond human understanding, and certainly beyond human carnal expression, but wasn’t on screen if it even really happened (more in a second) and was always very platonic, safe and identifiable by pretty much everyone..I mean the closest I could compare to this was “Girl in the Fireplace” and then it was just a drunken kiss, but here the Doctor was like ready to pounce after first seeing Rogue, looking him over like meat….had he talked about a woman that way or been that aggressive it would have seemed just as out of place, maybe even rude and chauvinistic. Call me old fashioned but I prefer an asexual Doctor …caring deeply for his companions, even loving them is fine but something about it moving to physical desire just feels wrong. And I don’t mean an occasional kiss or hug but the Doctor should be above lust and sex, leave that for the human companions. Back to River, it was always implied what they possibly got up to, but could just as easily been River being an insinuating flirt, since it was usually in the Doctor’s future anyway his look of shock and slight fear was humorous and seemed more a joke than anything. I dunno, maybe I’m old fashioned, indoctrinated by this age’s views on sex or maybe just old, but seemed out of place and made me uncomfortable (again, want to be clear it wouldn’t have mattered if it was male, female, alien!). And other things too - that the Doctor didn’t even try to get Ruby out of the triangle really bothered me (“tap your earrings for Jump mode!”), just reach in and yank her out, get rogue and Ruby both out and then send the bird people wherever, it just seemed like he didn’t even try, didn’t even consider alternatives despite the Doctor supposedly being so much more intelligent, yet Rogue showed it was easy to displace Ruby, heck if it’s some equal weight requirement (despite rogue being considerably larger than Ruby) throw one of the dead bodies in and pull her out, use a curtain rope and lasso her out, or a million other possibilities. And I have never watched Bridgerton but was so sick of hearing it that I kept wondering how many times the writers felt a joke had to be used….similarly, 5 or more times of turning Kylie Minogue back on w the Sonic? Funny once, twice, heck I’ll give you three for a stretch. But by the 5th time I was like “good god we get it, give it a freakin rest!”. And I even like that song! And next week is the start of the 2 part finale and who is Susan Twist and I can’t say I care much. Just seems Bad Wolf all over again. And with Season 2 already filmed, not sure they can take any audience complaints to “fix” what people didn’t like this season. Had thought the short 8 episode season was because 3 episodes were used for the 60th specials, but even so we had 2 Doctor lite stories! Just not been a fan of this series at all or the direction it’s taken and I had huge hopes of the “2nd Golden Age of Doctor Who” When it was announced RTD was returning.
I hear you loud and clear. The series feels off. Not even close to what Dr Who used to be. It's not Ncutis or Millies fault, as they embody their roles well, it's the writing. Bring the Doctor and Ruby together and reintroduce some familiar villains at least once, and drop the romantic Doctor persona, as its not necessary to drive the plot. Very disappointed with the season so far and I've loved Who since the 1970s...
When the doctor explains the not things to donna in WBY, he explains that emotions and fear are needed to fully understand a person (in that case to copy them), which is why the not things were scaring them. That was probably setting up the bigger arc here with the doctor and ruby being pushed to their limits to be analysed, possibly by triad technologies using the time windows, which is probably also why susan appears to be following them.
huh? say more ... 🤓
@@mysweetbabyjames7411 I am embarrassingly unable to tell if you're mocking me or genuinely asking for me to elaborate more lol
@@ridaa.f_ no mockery. Intrigued! I literally needed more to understand. I adore an aha moment and this might be one 4 me. I'm googling what i don't remember or didn't get. I might work it out. :)
@@mysweetbabyjames7411 Sorry for thinking that way and I'm so glad to elaborate about how I think the finale will play out based on hints we've got so far so there will obviously be spoilers from the 60th-season 1, and probably some other details we have from the finale from outside sources (will put spoiler warnings for these). I'll start with the less spoilery theories first and expand on them with the more spoilery stuff just so i wouldn't put out anything unwanted and possibly (?) ruin it for anyone reading this.
I believe that Susan Triad is actually somewhat innocent towards the bigger "bad" of the season. She's probably head of Triad technologies and figured out a way to open Time Windows (re: The Legend of Ruby Sunday's synopsis), since we know for a fact Triad Technologies are very advanced, to the point where even UNIT uses it (re: The Giggle, Mel tells Donna that they're using Triad). But those time windows somehow went wrong, with the sprinkling of salt at the edge of the universe, and let a way for the oldest one/the one who waits to come in (I will consider the oldest one and the one who waits to be the same entity or related just to simplify the explanation and for lack of any evidence suggesting they're different entities). But since the time windows aren't functioning well, the one who waits is stuck in limbo trying to access this universe through Susan Triad, scattering her through all of time and space during the process. He's sending the other gods to pave the way for him, challenge the doctor to learn his tactics and his weaknesses. As I mentioned before, the doctor told Donna that in order for the not things to understand them and copy them, they needed emotions and fear to get their thoughts out, which is probably why the doctor was so "lucky" with both the toymaker and maestro, defeating them basically with luck rather than skill, they were only there to study him for the oldest one.
Now with the spoilery stuff (please stay away if you don't want external source hints and teasers), we know from a disney+ trailer that the doctor will be (with Mel) in the memory TARDIS. And from another source where RTD gave one line from each episode, the one from TLORS is the doctor explaining regeneration to someone, and the other from Empire of Death is from Mel telling the doctor that "it's playing his entire life" (or something along those lines). Pair that with the Toymaker's remark (re: The Giggle, "I made a jigsaw out of your life doctor, did you like it?" without actually seeing anything related to that suggests that the Toymaker actually put together the key moments of the doctor's life and created the memory TARDIS from remnants of old TARDISes just to put the doctor in it in preparation to unleash the one who waits (he would have to wait the entire lifespan of the doctor, until this moment, to be freed).
Another theory I just had (very far from reality but sounds interesting) is that since RTD said that the timeless child is the backbone of this season, could it mean that probably the doctor is from the universe or realm of the pantheon (since Zellin said that he saw the doctor "wander off into this universe" right after namedropping the toyamaker in Can You Hear Me), sent here by them to live enough (gave him infinite regenerations) and learn everything about this universe before stepping themselves into it (there are multiple shots in the trailers with entire planets ravaged by the sand we see in other clips of the trailer, so this is not an earth-centered threat only).
I think some people are expecting Ruby to be tied up into this, but since RTD said that her story spans to season 2 I really doubt we'll be getting definitive answers.
So this is, I think, the most logical nerdy coocoo theory i could come up with, sorry for it being so lengthy!
@@ridaa.f_ I obviously have no idea how tv works. I really need to pay closer attention 🔍 I love how you worked through this. I'm still processing, but liking Rogue as 'the one who waits'. How could he fit? Could he, having been abandoned, be angry with The Doctor for not "finding" him. Like I said, a lot to process, but I'm into it. I'm gonna do some rewatching, because 'huh?!' 🤯
Does this mean we're gonna have a surprise cameo of a Richard E Grant Doctor from like another universe or another dimension at some point? Surely the 3rd Doctor hologram being older leads credence to Sean Pertwee showing up as The Third Doctor this season rumors!
I think Grant's Doctor is an alternate universe Doctor and due to the flux and the invoking of the superstition, the borders of the universe and the next have really been weakened, allowing the scanner to pick him up and all the allusions to alternate dimensions this episode. He could also be a Doctor from a universe which is fiction within the main Doctor Who universe going with the theme of fiction.
Alternatively, he's 8.5, during sometime in the Mcgann era, he was regenerated into Shalka, then eventually de-regenerated and wiped of his memories from this point (something that happens a lot to Mcgann). It would sort of mean that 10's regeneration in The End of Time would have broken the 13 limit which he was bound to at that point which makes less sense. Perhaps it's like Power of the Doctor with the master, if you can successfully reverse a regeneration, it doesn't count.
I don't like Shalka being pre-Hartnell as he was obviously invented to continue on from 8 and thematically does not fit with fugitive, the timeless child incarnations or the Morbius doctors. His suave and romantic allure really doesn't fit with anything we've seen pre-Hartnell and he definitely feels like a continuation from 8, a wilderness years Doctor similar to the Nth Doctor I suppose.
Did anyone else notice that after the Chuldur are banished, except for Ruby the room is suddenly empty of humans? They were all there at the "wedding," but suddenly they've just disappeared.
They ran away, you see them run off during the scene
@@amrit-malhi Ah. Thanks, I'll have to watch it again.
I may be wrong, as it was I believe Kyley Menouge (or however you spell her name) in a Christmas special. I want to say it was the spaceship Titanic one. It was years ago... probably almost 20 years, now. But I started laughing as soon as that song played.
Yes, Kylie Minogue did play Astrid Peth in Voyage of the Damned.
*2005 - 2015 Doctor Who averaged 14 episodes per season.* Doctor lite, Companion lite not so noticed...
EIGHT IS NOT ENOUGH!!
The original season 1 had 42 episodes, and it wasn't the longest.
Huh I thought the Richard E Grant cameo was a reference to Curse of The Fatal Death
I know the first doctor had that line “don’t call me doc”, but when I saw it I immediately thought of Graham who called 13 “doc” throughout her entire run. Like 15 didn’t want to think of Graham when flirting with Rogue Lmao
They did the body swap trope thing like they did in The Flash when Eobard Thon did it to Harry Wells
Russell from what i heard did have involvement with the script, he said in the podcast that he was in the idea meetings for it and they tried a few ideas back and forth before landing on the idea that its bridgerton but with murdering birds.
And, lots of gay snogging 🙄
How i see the trap is that it locks on the number, meaning that once it traps 5 people out of 6, it cant go lower but only up.. So it made sense that the only way to free Ruby was an exchange
trigeneration as the 8th doctor regenerated into the shalka doctor, the war doctor and the curse of fatal death doctor, due to the complications with that regeneration the doctor is largely unaware that the sisters did this to him
My headcanon is that the fugitive Doctor and the Shalka Doctors are in between the 2nd and 3rd ones. We never see 2 become 3 properly
The reason Rogue had to step on the trap for it to work was due to the fact that earlier in the episode they establish they set it for 6 people, so i assume if he wanted to get Ruby off he had to use himself as counterbalance
Where the hell does he fit then if we've seen 7 regenerate into 8, 8 into War, WAR into 9 and so on if he's the Shalka Doctor?!
If I had to guess I'd say maybe he would retcon it a bit and make him a doctor from before the first doctor however it is worth noting we never actually saw the war doctor regenerate into 9
In some (I forget which ones) 8th Dr novelisations from the early 2000s, it's hinted that there are somehow 3 versions of the 9th Dr. It's never explained why though.
@@purpleduke3193The Gallifrey Chronicles - another Time Lord is grumbling about the Doctor's timeline being all messed up around his ninth incarnation 😉
i hope grant is a timeless incarnation ,and is only believed he is ninth because the division s memory wipe ,and the master was there because time war complicated things(i.e:being cloned and sent into the past) and turned into an android ,and maybe the doctor was inspired by a david tennant cameo to be 10 and 14 after all
During the doctors scan, who is the woman between Smith and Tennant towards the end? Does anyone know?
The trap if you listen, it was set for whatever amount of people like the other person said and then you had to replace one person with another person. That’s how it worked how they were able to swap out.
I think The shalka's doctor would be a pre-fugitive
I think it was explained that the 6 people on the trap were "locked in", so I guess Rogue had to swap with her.
I LOVE the new Doctor. LOVE this season.
Don't you sleep AT ALL? 😅😅 Thanks for the video, and the Classic Who references that I needed.
5:23 Actually we never saw the full regenerations from the Second to Third Doctor (the change happening offscreen between episodes) and we also technically didn't see War turn into Nine (obviously we see a slight transition into Eccleston's face for a few frames, but RTD himself has said that he believes there's enough wiggle room to where it doesn't necessarily have to be Eccleston). So, there's at least two regenerations after Hartnell where Richard E. Grant could theoretically fit in if they really wanted to, but honestly I doubt RTD will give a definitive answer on the matter since he's gone on record many times as being against the idea of having a definitive canon, and that he prefers to leave it up to subjective audience opinion when dealing with stuff like this.
RTD having the Toymaker say "I made a jigsaw out of your history, did you like it?" being the best example of RTD's distaste for "objective" canon or even canon in general. The guy literally wrote an in-universe justification for fans to individually pick and choose their own personal canon lol. I like it.
11:29 - When Rogue sacrifices himself for Ruby, the triforge-thingy AI voice says "Matter Exchanged". So I think that goes to explain that there needed to be a one-for-one person swap, and it was deadlocked that they couldn't just pull/push Ruby out.
Yeah that's definitely the justification being used, but the fact that possibility wasn't set-up at all prior to that scene made the moment feel a bit rushed. The line was clearly dubbed in-post as an afterthought. It doesn't ruin the episode or anything, not at all, but it's easily the weakest part and it could've been handled better.
@@HOTD108_ All very true - it's very obviously an late ADR addition to explain the plot hole. It's one of those things, there could have been other scenes setting it up that were cut for time, who knows!
But the emotion of the moment carries it for me, so this doesn't bother me too much
I knew Ruby Survived the attack because in the trailer she hits someone with a book, but also cosplaying is what Kate Steward did in the Zygon 2 parter of Series 9
why the first Doctor? Shaka Doctor can be right after War Doctor and before Ekcerson.
My understanding with pushing Ruby off of the triangle is that it is callibrated to lock the matter of up to 6 individuals, so when he stood on it, it added a 7th weight, overloading it, causing it to turn off till ruby was pushed off, making it 6 people again and thus turning it back on.
I think he is still the nine doctor in timeline before altered by time war we know that there was loads of paradoxes and timelines.
This was a really interesting and fun episode and this makes me excited for the two part finale!
The reason it was so convincing that Ruby had been replaced is because she made the Chuldur sound effects when we first saw her. I immediately thought she might be faking until she somehow made those noises. They never did explain how.
Dont call me doc is the time meddler, stephen taylor called him doc.
I watched the pyramids of Mars, and correct me if I'm wrong but the last 5 minutes shows the (was it called priory?).anyway it explodes, but the place looked exactly like the stately home in rogue? Can someone please tell me I'm crazy?....
I think the amount of crying is just right. I think it shows how important "saving lives" is to the Doctor, which so far he always held back because of his issues.
I agree! I see the crying as "I'm going to feel my feelings when they come up so I can be free of the pain that comes when I shove them all down". I feel like that was the point of 14 and the bi-generation, he literally shed the part of himself that had pushed their emotions down and refused to let themselves experience everything.
This! It’s refreshing, and a logical progression of the long-term story arc of the Doctor’s personal development across their regenerations.
I honestly felt lots more feelings from the new doctor because of him showing his emotions and the crying when he thought Ruby was dead almost had me in tears.
Beg to differ. What a crybaby...bored already
@@rhocat362 Oh no someone disagrees with me on the internet, whatever will I do
It was nice to get a standard Doctor Who episode. I do love what they're doing with this season, but I wish it was 12 episodes, with more standard Doctor Who stories with Ncuti and Millie.
This was the best episode so far by a long shot. I hope there are more like it
What if the Shalka Doctor is somehow the Watcher due to him being erased from the timeline or something like that so he had to merge with an older/newer Doctor?
The toymaker said he made a jigsaw out of his history so maybe the eighth doctor bigenerated to eccleston and the shulkar doctor
Richard E. Grant was featured because he is already cast as the 16th Doctor! ( Meaning that 'Withnail and I' is a 'Two Doctors' feature film...
Finally, an episode that actually feels like good ol' NuWho! It wasn't anything groundbreaking, but it still had everything I could ever want from a good DW story - It was fun and camp, yet emotional at times; great setting, cool uncomplicated monsters, great character moments. I feel like I finally got a chance to actually get to know Ruby and 15 better as people, and see what they're actually like on a run-in-the-mill type of adventure. The Doctor felt more like the Doctor here than he did in many of the previous stories imo, and Ruby finally showed some real agency as a companion in this episode (she also did in 73 yards and Boom, but there she didn't really have a choice but to be separated from the Doctor; I liked that in this case, they just decided to split and she actually chose to do her own thing). I also loved the bits we got with them together, and especially the scene with both of them at the end, as I've been really missing seeing their actual relationship play out this season. I do wish it would have happened much earlier in the season, but better late then never I suppose lol :)
I also loved the chemistry between Ncuti and Jonathan Groff, and his character was really interesting (Yeah, similar to Captain Jack in many aspects, including btw, referring the the Doctor as "Doc" to annoy him lol.. but I personally didn't mind it at all), so I hope he comes back in the future! But even if we don't get to see him again, it was a great choice of guest star and a very cool dynamic to watch unfold.
Regarding your question on what allowed Rogue to switch places with Ruby - It was the fact that there were 6 people in the trap already, which as the Doctor said earlier, was the very max it could hold. By Rogue entering the trap himself, there were then momentarily 7 people, which allowed him to push Ruby out and take her place.
I kinda disagree with you on the Ruby still being Ruby twist, tho. If anything my only, very tiny gripe tbh, is how quickly the Doctor believed Ruby was actually gone. I mean, I liked Ruby's side of it, using the earring's previously established combat-mode and "cosplaying" was very clever on her part and I can totally believe it worked. It was also well established that the creatures don't identify each other very quickly, and later explained the earrings helped with that as well, so I can even buy them not clocking her. However, personally, since all the Chuldur were in bird-form, and she was the only one that wasn't, I immediately assumed it was actually the real Ruby. When the Doctor ran off, I expected him to go search for her body, to want to verify that she's actually dead before he rains down hell on them.. But instead he just went away to cry, which was a bit disappointing tbh. I'm not one of those people who has a problem with him crying in every episode, I think that's a nice character trait for 15; he's emotional and wears his heart(s) on his sleeve and that's cool. I just didn't like how quickly he accepted it without even checking - and even if he did believe it and just felt like crying, I don't get why he had to go off to the another room to do so. I doubt he'd be the kind of person who cares about other people seeing him cry, both since he hadn't so far, and cause that's such a human male-ego type of trait that doesn't fit the Doctor imo. I felt like it kinda took my out of the moment, ruining the intended emotional punch of the flashback scene, but oh well.
Even before I saw Ruby reappear, I assumed she would have put her Chekhov's earrings into battle mode.
Shalka wasn't actually Tennant's first Doctor Who appearance. He was in Big Finish's Colditz in 2001, two years before, as well as Sympathy for the Devil (as well as a cameo in Exile) earlier in 2003.
Such a good episode! Love your breakdowns!
Yes, I was also confused about the mechanics of the sacrifice. I guess the idea is that the trap only works if there are 6 beings in it? So removing Ruby and not adding anyone else would break it?
It had a max capacity of 6. Ruby physically couldn't move until that threshold was passed, once Rogue stepped on, there was wasn't enough power to hold her. Think the Indiana Jones idol/ sandbox swap
@@ivymoon5084 thank you, perfect analogy
7:17 The mouse click sound played the moment I pressed the like button and I was very shocked lmao.
Great to see Richard E.Grant’s face looking very Valeyard-ish! If they did resurrect the Valeyard he would be ideal!
Now that would be great 👍
@@paganartisan There was talk a long time ago that RTD might introduce the pre-Hartnell Doctors and there was mention of Hugh Grant playing one of those Doctors. So Richard E.Grant being a pre-Hartnell Doctor might be another possibility and the current Doctor is starting to regain his memories.
The one who waits could it be dr simeon what do you think
From what I could tell Ruby's feet or stuck to the floor using a force field and the only way to get her out was for the road to tackle her and knock her out of the triangle
I believe this doctors is from another universe
SOOO, could rogue now be the one who waits?....(for the doctor)
Can’t confirm it but it seemed like the trap field could have matter added but in order to remove someone they had to be replaced because when Rogue removes Ruby and takes her place it says “matter transferred”
WAS it the Shalka doctor though??
Or was it The Valeyard. . . as The Great Intelligence?
There's always a twist in the end!
were the bird people time travelers too? It was stated that they had watched bridgerton right? and were trying to recreate it
The Doctor's theory was that they had seen Bridgerton, and liked it so much they wanted to be in it. That wasn't confirmed, but if correct it would mean either they were time travellers, or someone sent Bridgerton back in time.
Richard Hurdnell from The 5 Doctors said "And don't call me Doc"
War could have bigenerated as we never saw the full regeneration in DOTD
OK - I have posted this elsewhere on the tinterweb with regards to Richard E Grant's Doctor, but I thought I'd share it here too, as this is probably the only other place I think it may be appreciated:
So - The Toymaker, (a being who is able to manipulate matter with thought and to whom time and space is nothing but an illusion, lest we forget), told us in the Giggle that he had made a jigsaw out of the Doctor's past. RTD has stated in many interviews that the purpose of this was to create wiggle room in whatever this show counts as canon (ie nothing, but some fans insist that it must have it, so here is the get-out clause). In doing this, he has pulled Richard E Grant's unofficial 9th Doctor into the main continuity.
But it gets even better than that!
Tales From The TARDIS introduced the Memory TARDIS. Dialogue presented within those short pieces states out right that multiple timelines now exist - most notably from the 7th Doctor, who says that in some of those he regenerates, in others he doesn't. RTD has stated that the effects of the Bi-generation reverberated throughout the Doctor's entire timeline, meaning that every past Doctor both regenerated and also stayed the same.
But it gets even better than that!
If Grants alternative 9th Doctor can be pulled in, so can other alternatives, including the "Unbound" Doctor's from Big Finish. But BEST OF ALL Rowan Atkinson is now an official incarnation of the Doctor, which I think is borderline joygasmic. But even more even more than that, in The Curse of the Fatal Death, Atkinson's Doctor is shown to regenerate multiple times. One of those times is Richard E Grant. So thanks to the Toymaker messing with the Doctors past, entwining multiverses and mashing it all together, AND the process of Bi-generation, Grant's Shalka Doctor is now not just a stand alone Doctor, but a continuation of his Curse of the Fatal Death incarnation.
And people thought the Timeless Child retcon was confusing! I FECKING LOVE THE AUDACITY OF IT
I think Richard E. Grant is either a pre-Hartnell Doctor or, since we didn’t see his full regeneration, my theory is that the War Doctor somehow bigenerated into both Eccleston and Grant.
I think David Tennant's first Doctor Who rules isn't in Shalka but in the Big Finish audio Colditz.
I thought this was an okay episode, I think the last three episodes raised the bar high but I don't feel this episode really come close and it felt more like a filler episode.
I got captain Jack vibes as well. I thought Richard E Grant was the Valeyard. The episode was fun, probably much needed after the last three episodes. All in all this has not been a bad season.
Biregeneration accross the timeline according to Screenrant which explains the aging of all the Doctors
The only setting left is a direct swap, so using the device allowed him to swap in and out but not release them both :(
This was such a good episode!! Ncuti is an incredible actor!! I think Rogue was Jacks companion and that's who he lost
Richard E Grant was more recently the Great Intelligence during Matt Smiths Doctor. I must rewatch those episodes for clues 😮
The TARDIS had a normal landing at the beginning of 73 Yards. I think the way it's been crashing about lately is just a fun way to portray it with the modern VFX
Oh I thought this implies the Dr. was actually Walter Simeon xD This makes more sense now. I didn't know he was the 9th doctor!
I think they mentioned that they increased the number of persons they can transport using the triangular thing but not the weight limit.
So by standing on the triangle the rogue was able to push Ruby away because the teleporter didn't work properly at that time. Before that she was stuck to the ground like the doctor.
Is Rogue the new River Song? He and the Doctor keep meeting in unexpected ways? Enjoyable episode.
I don't think that's the case, but it might be, I thought it was jack because of the salute at the end.
Yea feel his like a replacement Jack really because they can’t use him
"Rogue is a very Doctor-like character"
Could Rogue be a future regeneration of The Doctor who can't say he is The Doctor to The Doctor who wouldn't know his future?
Considering the actor playing him is both very in demand and American I doubt Rogue will be able to show up much. I give him 2 more episodes at best but really he will likely only get 1 more
So is he a time agent or a time lord?
For the first time in this series I watched this episode on the iPlayer at midnight and I honestly thought I was seeing things when the hologram incarnations scene came on. Richard E. Grant played a version of the 9th(?) Doctor in Scream so maybe he IS between Hurt and Eccleston. I'm hoping we get some sort of explanation in the finale.... Having Jo Martin in there was interesting though as I thought she was supposed to be pre Hartnell? Unless the series 6b theory is indeed correct.
How can shalka doctor be canon ? 11 explains he has no more regenerations because he’s actually the last one because of the war doctor and the meta crisis doctor, so how can there be another doctor in the original 13 ? (Considering the timeless child and fugitive doctor things out of the 13 granted iteration of a timelord lifespan).
In some (I forget which ones) 8th Dr novelisations from the early 2000s, it's hinted that there are somehow 3 versions of the 9th Dr. It's never explained why though.
@@purpleduke3193 huh. Interesting. But I never understood if the novels were actually canon or not ?
Man I just really don't like the whole pre-hartnell idea. I'm actually all for removing the importance on how many doctors there should be and who counts as a 'proper' doctor but I just feel like there has to be some kind of reverence maintained for the first doctor being the first.
I put the Shalka Doctor between his travels with Charley and Lucie.
So the doctor went McCoy, McGann, E Grant, McGann, Hurt..? I think that's where Charles and Lucy were.. (big finish right?)
@@ivymoon5084 yes, in a 2004 short trips anthology, McGann is going grey and believes he’ll soon regenerate. There’s then a gap before we pick up with Blood of the Daleks.
Would've been so much easier if they just made E Grant the War Doctor. He basically commanded an a military in Scream of the Shalka and at least he was sort of the 'current' Doctor:
1. William Hartnell (1963-1966)
2. Patrick Troughton (1966-1969)
3. Jon Pertwee (1970-1974)
4. Tom Baker (1974-1981)
5. Peter Davison (1981-1984)
6. Colin Baker (1984-1986)
7. Sylvester McCoy (1987-1989)
8. Paul McGann (1996)
9. Richard E. Grant (2003)
10. Christopher Eccleston (2005)
11. David Tennant (2005-2010)
12. Matt Smith (2010-2013)
13. Peter Capaldi (2013-2017)
14. Jodie Whittaker (2017-2022)
15. David Tennant (2022-2023)
16. Ncuti Gatwa (2023-Present)
@@Batarrow22Unless he’s between McGann and the War Doctor or the War Doctor and Eccleston
@@king_dot was thinking that. We didn't see the full War Doctor regeneration so what if War changed into E Grant instead. I just headcanon that there's no Timeless Child / Pre-Hartnell Doctors and that E. Grant was the War Doctor making Shalka canon and the regeneration number untouched so 11 still gets a new cycle in TotD. Since the inclusion of the War Doctor, the regenerations and the show in general has been a mess to me.
I loved it when the Doctor didn't say yes when Rogue proposed, because he remembered River Song❤ such as 13 with Yaz❤
What about the dnd reference?
Loved the D&D reference
the trap thing literally said "equivelenat exchange" or something like that, he had someone had to be swapped with ruby
Nicely summarised, handsome. I think the point in the triangle (triad?) was it could only hold six. Rogue going in there necessitated Ruby’s removal.
They might not be canonising "Scream of the Shalka", they might be canonising "The Curse of Fatal Death" where Richard E Grant _also_ played the Doctor
Im not gay, but i think the sexual tension is so hot. Imagine a 15th x jack x ricky September x rouge fanfic
😂😂 this made me laugh but you sound like a fan girl but in a good way
@@elelonger4409 moffat wrote almost all of 11 one handed, I just hope Russell can hype this stuff up
As you say, this is a non-experimental story for a change. I’d put it more strongly: it seems to me that the Chuldur would have been quite at home in Old Who, and what we have here is an Old Who story with the details updated. It’s a relatively minor story, but it feels like Doctor Who, the acting is good, I quite liked it overall.
Maybe grant is just eccleston before he met rose, like, the ninth doctor before he had a makeover... We never did see war into nine