I worked for a co. once owned by ALCO. We made 1000's of Journey box covers every week. In the beginning most didn't have gaskets but later I would say 90% of what made did. The covers where made in different sizes , from what we called 5×9 to 7×14 plus sizes in between. Also we made elliptical springs for caboose clear up to N&W's 2-6-6-4. The spring plates for coil springs came in all sizes The company unfortunately went bankrupt and all the dies and drawings where destroyed from what I was told. Thanks for bringing back memories to a 81 year old guy.
John, your a good man, thanks for commenting on here and sharing some of your past experiences. I enjoy all of the railroad experiences shared here and that also includes skill professionals that are not tied to a railroad past but have a lot to offer…I’ve been retired for 8 years and I do know how to make and old alco and a jeep go..you made me feel good today….ms~~~
When Uncle Pete bought the SP, a siding full of roller bearing freight, passenger, MOW cars and a locomotive somehow made it from one branch to another overnight (About a 25 mile move) and got spotted on "our" lead. We had been trying to get that move to happen for a number of years. I thnk it was a parting gift from the old SP regime before "The Rules" took over completely. The week before the move, "Someone" serviced all of the journal boxes, checked the brake lines and couplers. Made it with no issues.
If I remember correctly, from my days of being a Toolmaker/Instrument maker, what you and me call "Brass" bearings were in fact a type of bronze[brass alloy] and in their most developed form are Sintered Bronze. Sintered Bronze is porous[think aerated] which will hold the oil for a much longer time and I think is now the most commonly used small plain bearing material used. The Babbet material on the bearing face of your brass bearings we knew as "White Metal" ! Many was the hour I spent in the past scraping off the high spots of white metallised brass bearings using engineer's blue to mark the low spots to obtain a precision fit and prevent the bearing overheating because of the high spots, lol. The majority of our old preserved Steam Locomotives here in The UK have Brass white metalled bearings, so re-white metalling them at major overhaul time is quite common and keeps the old Fitting skills of Bearing Scraping alive.
@@scotcoon1186 Actually, it was developed earlier than the second world war by Chrysler. Engineers Carl Breer, William Sherwood and metallurgist Bill Caulkins developed Oilite bearings in the 1930s for Chrysler car clutch bearings initially. You may find this article interesting www.bowman.co.uk/news/a-brief-of-oilite-bearings
I’m a retired locomotive engineer and there were many a time when we couldn’t pick up cars enroute account of having the brass stolen from the journal boxes.
FYI, at 0:50, the text says "journel" instead of "journal". The old-time railroad police watched for people trying to get into journal boxes for the end brass. The babbitted brass bearings were harder to get at while still mounted to a car on a siding... But, maybe that's the issue why Class 1 railroads won't move a locomotive with the old-style journals. I found it interesting that you found both the foam (newer) style and the older (string mop head) style oil holder in that journal box. Someone clearly didn't clean out the "nasty mess" while putting a new bearing oil retention system into the journal box.
When I hired out with the IC RR in 1980 they had recently phased out the `oiler’ jobs. Some older Box Cars still used those friction bearings but were being oiled by Carmen Apprentice’s in the Yard.
Remember seeing rolling stock that had been converted. Had the old friction bearing frames but the doors removed and you could see the roller with the 3 bolts spinning. Mostly the cabooses in their last days on the Cheap & Nothing Wasted
One of the best train videos I've seen, because no one I've found before has shown the inside of the box. I like the concept of shorts like this. Please keep them coming. From a subscriber in SW Ohio. Thanks.
Interesting video guys. My grandfather worked in a railyard most of his life, and my father did briefly as well shortly after getting out of the navy. Dad said he and grandpa spent a lot of time filling the oil boxes on the cars. I guess this could have been what he was talking about. Thanks!
50+ years ago I watched a movie where the train stopped because of a "Hot box" that caught on fire. Today I learned just what the hell they were talking about.
Nice to see an American working with his bare hands and getting them dirty, first time i have seen someone work without gloves protecting and keeping their hands from getting dirty, way to go Sir
Very interesting and enjoyable seeing the disassembly of these old journal boxes and a good explanation of how they work. Love how your not afraid to get your hands dirty. Hope to see more of these shorts... great stuff!
I was an over-the-road truck driver in the mid 1990s. I was waiting for the truck to be loaded at a steel mill in Granite City Illinois. On site near the loading docks was a siding with several old low-sided gondolas, and flat cars. They had journal boxes without the end brass pieces (your video was the first I had seen or heard of them). They looked like someone had stuffed old skeins of yarn or old stocking caps in the journal boxes. The build date on one of those was still visible. It was in the 1930's. Apparently the plant used them on the grounds for moving some parts around. They apparently made the heavy parts of railroad "trucks" in that plant at some point, as there were many laying around. They had an octagon with a G in it cast into the side. I've seen those markings on other RR equipment since then. I never was sent to that plant to load again, I have no idea if the plant is still open or if the ancient cars still exist.
norfolk southern moved an alco-s1 from ADM elevator in riga michigan to waterville ohio 5 years ago,engine was donated to the toledo lake erie and western railway,granted NS never had to use main lines to get it there but it was on journal boxes
I'm a retired engineer it was probably 30 years ago we were assigned to move decommissioned ore cars that had these type of boxes when we arrive at are destination there where at least three of them on fire.
I remember summer nights at my aunt and uncles house in the country. They lived by what was N,C,&StLo.Then it was L&N, then the conglomerate of the SAL, B&O, L&N, that morphed into CSX. In those days they used journal boxes and on dark nights we'd watch the night train speed by where occasionally you'd get to see a hot box. I think they made the flange of the steel wheels glow red hot! Don't know if it caused any crashes but, they were fun to watch.
Im a DSLE and have been on the railroad for about 14 years. If I can recall correctly you can move a journal bearing piece of equipment with what we call a OTMA. A one time movement authority, but I could be wrong about this. Unfortunately the Class 1s make it hard to move vintage equipment
I've replaced a few pieces of waste from journal boxes before. From my experience, they are foam on the inside with the outside layer being that "mop head" material with the strands of fabric that extend. They are a real pain to replace. You have to jack up the axle to remove the weight and pull it out with a hook. Then you get a new pad, soak it with journal oil and shove it in with a "spoon". From my understanding it's hard to come by journal oil in small amounts for small time operations like ours was, but I believe Shell still makes and distributes oil of the right viscosity. I remember filling the old squirt can in the shop from a 50 gallon drum with a pump. I recall the barrel being yellow with red lettering, and I think I recall the CMO saying Shell in conversation. I'm sure he was probably telling me about how expensive the stuff was lol.
In the 60s my father was a nightwatchman in the railways workshops , his shift was the midnight till 8am, sadly the brass bearings were the biggest target for the criminal fraternity of the time, as I was a kid I would go too work with him on the weekend's, on this one weekend my father was ill with the flu so we didn't go too work but strangely enough his very good friend did his shift and was extremely badly injured by 3 burglars. Sadly he passed away some months later, hence even today I look at every train especially the bearings.
Warren this is Brian. I was moved by your story, to think about guy working midnights to feed his family, is killed by someone, so they can take what is not theirs. The brass was probably only worth 4$ and everybody involved lived with the regret of what happened for the rest of their days. Its far better to work honestly for what you earn and live in peace.
rear speaker I don’t recall having to set more hand breaks to keep a train from moving. Or to use anymore air reduction to stop or slow down a moving train.
In addition to locomotives, any type of cars with friction bearings are not permitted for "interchange" service, that being where the car(s) are handed off from one road's system to another road for furtherance. Any historical cars, or equipment with friction bearings may still be used on their own home roads, in captive service. Long distance transport would require ferrying the car or equipment on a (modern) flatcar or low-boy, or by simply placing (modern) compliant bogies beneath the equipment for transport, and then re-placing the original bogies under it at destination.
Not being an RR guy, are the friction bearings no longer allowed because they have a high frequency of failure, too high of maintenance, etc.? Thanks in advance!
Railroad switched to roller bearings because they were cheaper to maintain and easy to train the new and old crew on Friction bearings are safe if maintained properly but it is now law that any equipment with friction bearings Can’t operate past switches of there home track/rail line , Plus most railroad like (up)do not won’t or allow that type of bearing .
@@thumperjdm - Friction bearings rely 100% on good oil, any loss of lubrication leads to immediate, dramatic failure. Think….smoke, fire, derailment, etc. Roller bearings are much more tolerant of misuse, the balls will still turn when dry, although they’ll wear out much quicker. Friction/plain bearings (specifically hydrodynamic bearings) are still better for large machines with meticulous maintenance, like power plants and some wind turbines. If everything is done correctly, there’s no metal contact, everything floats on a fluid film. I bring up wind turbines because roller bearings are the reason why some of the older models had so much trouble. The loads are so high the bearings in the gearbox would tear themselves apart, and manufacturers fixed this by switching back to plain bearings.
@@thumperjdm Yes, that's basically it in a nutshell. The home railroad that has or owns the equipment with friction bearings can run it within their own system if they want, and they will be prepared and set-up to pay more attention to these "maintenance-intense" items, whereas other railroads may not have the means or desire to pay special attention to equipment that poses a higher risk. They are considered "very high maintenance" by direct comparison to more modern sealed, permanently lubricated roller bearings that usually provide years, if not decades, of trouble-free service, whereas friction bearings are a known design that WILL need oil level checked periodically and probably some oil added. Being direct contact, yes, they will be a high frequency of failure by design. Keeping them properly oiled, and paying good attention to them can lead to a longer life, but the wear still does occur.
VERY interesting and educational. Best of luck and I wish you and the railroad prosparity and good fortune. I love when any unused tracks are salvaged and put back in use. I have been a railroad fan since I was about three (now 62 ouch). I only wish I was closer as I would love to help. Stay safe and healthy. Happy Thanksgiving to all !!!!!
Galveston RR Museum had some vintage rolling stock severely damaged because the class 1s that served the Island would not move them when hurricane Ike was headed their way in 2008. It was due to friction bearings on the older rolling stock. I think afterward, when 6 feet of water flooded the museum and its yard, an agreement was made (I believe it was with UP) that made an exception in the case of major storms. The museum has its own power (two EMD F7s and a utility switcher of some sort) and could drag the rolling stock out of harm's way rather easily, not sure though what the agreement is, the details are foggy now. I think the class 1 power would move the rolling stock to more inland sidings. Anyone here have more accurate info?
Is that how they lost the UTLX 83699 (the four-truck 50,000 gallon tank car), it floated off it's trucks and it couldn't be moved back (or funds were lacking to retrieve it?) and it was cut up in-place. I always wondered if the top/bottom outlets had been opened prior to the storm surge, would the tank have filled with water from the bottom up and not floated away?
@@RailRide Yeah it lifted off and capsized a short distance away and ended up scrapped. Sad. I think your idea of opening the tank up might have saved it if it could have filled quickly enough, the storm surge was quite speedy.
Ed That was a fun mini series, another one you will enjoy is on the relation ship between the rail and wheel. Sounds dull but there are some assumptions that I will challenge. Professor Williams
A plain bearing is not “cause of death”! Human error or laziness is! Let me remind you that hundreds of thousands of freight,passenger cars and steam locomotives ran on these everyday for decades with proper maintenance and attention, before higher speeds and heavier trains dictated improvements were needed! If the bearing is well maintained and topped up with oil everyday before use there is no reason it should fail! I would like to point out that a roller bearing will fail pretty quickly if it’s seals fall and it runs dry! That is why it is not safe to ignore a rumbling wheel bearing on your car!!
Chad This is Brian. First thanks for watching and rooting for the ETR. You and I have a common interest, making a success out of a project many over looked or didn't have the audacity to try. The truth is the ETR hasn't made a penny yet and I have to pay the bills! So if my day is RR and is moving us closer to the goal line I show it. I just bought a load of RR ties, stay tuned.
Brian: "I'm going to make some short videos... 4 minutes or less" Video: *goes **9:43* Brian: "It'll get better..." Thanks for the video today, regardless of length!
I bet that the "friction bearing issue" is why when a steam locomotive is moved it is typically lifted onto a car, not attached directly to the train and pulled on its own wheels.
the main issue is no steam to run the lubricator turning every moving part into a hot box because no mainline is going to let you stop every 15/20 miles to manually lube the bushings
Please use horizontal position of camera and don't rush your essays. You have a pleasant personality and 4 minutes leaves out too much. I try to keep my technical stuff to around 20 - 30 minutes and still leave out too much. Go thru the exercise first unrecorded, then do it again live, then avoid speeding the recording while fumbling with taking things apart. I like your teaching style.
I understand that waste was used prior to invention of Mop heads, but the waste used to dry out and pieces of it would find their way between the journal and the brass, eventually causing a hot box.
From a retired railroader.. If the prime mover is still good, and If you can find parts for that Canadian Pacific ALCo, I would pay to have the axles changed to roller bearing and ship it to yourself by rail.. might be some nice power for you.
Just wondering if I have missed anything being uploaded 🤔 seems to me that a disassembled truck and axle is out of sequence with the calendar. Always check daily for your videos.
Thanks for that. So often you just read or hear "friction bearing" without any real explanation as to how they are different or why they are "bad." Now we know!
As an apprentice on the UK Railways in the 1970's I spent several weeks scraping journal bearing brasses to axels on rolling stock ...................... tedious work
Wow, that's cheap to swap over. I figured it would be $10k an axle. Great to save an S-2. I got to run the one on the West Chester RR. They're donating it to the Martinsville I think it's called Roundhouse group. It doesn't have transistion so is only really good for switching.
Shame I did not know you guys were out this way . I would have shown you guy the BKR ( Battenkill Railroad ) short line . Maybe next time . Ud like the old iron they have .
I bet they went to roller bearings soon after they could manufacture them to the right quality in order for them to last longer than the oiled friction surface ones. Babbit made a lot of people's lives a bit easier with his bearing alloy discovery.
Just like with modern Janney couplers and Westinghouse air brakes, the railroads probably put off converting to roller bearings for decades after they were introduced because of the cost of switching the entire fleet over. New passenger cars were built with them long before the freight cars and older passenger were converted. Sometimes it takes a law to force their hand and make them move.
Friction bearings have not been used on the major railroads in decades. It takes a special waiver to move one on one of the class ones if they would take it at all.
That's interesting. I've always noticed the bolts on the axles--when I'm driving by and I can't tell for sure if a train is moving, I look at those 3 bolts and can immediately tell if the train is rolling.
Thanks for showing this. I had a good idea of what was in the box, but I've never seen one t disassembled. I must have missed something....what is the truck off of and why are you taking it apart?
Modern railway vehicles have roller bearings usually timken or skf. Old locomotives have white metal or brass plain bearings. The plain bearings have a small oil reservoir above the bearing . These have to be topped up with oil every day . Anyone who has worked on or operated a steam railroad locomotive will know you have to oil the axel boxes valve gear and motion every morning.
Most class one lines won’t touch equipment with plain bearings, but until recently the TM support bearings were still plain. Within the last 20-30 years these went to rollers. Go figure no plain journal, but plain support bearings. By the way the railroad Providence and Worcester is pronounced Wuster.
Thanks for the look at the workings of a friction bearing. Suggest you use PPE gloves to protect your hands and fingers. What locomotive that you disassembled are you referring to?
Thanks for the info. Good to see 1 apart to better understand. Welcome to New England, you're still too far south and missed the good part though lol. And Worcester is pronounced "Wusta"
Could you modify the bearing to modern roller bearing? I know there's a cost but the reliability and service will be much greater saving cost in the long run plus as you said having speed instrumentation which could be a benifit. Thanks for the technical information and video.
It is alleged that Timpken invented the term "friction bearing" as a negative description of the traditional brass bearings when advertising for their roller bearings. Is it a 44 tonner that you are working on? That could work for you on your little line.
No, every journal box does not have a thrust bearing that rides on the end of the axle. The item that sits on the top of the "brass" is called the "wedge". Newer is a relative term when it comes to pads instead of waste for supplying oil to the axle. The pad in that journal should have been replaced as it is worn out. A good pad has the mop like material completely surrounding the foam pad. The truck also shows signs of improper maintenance as there is no evidence of any kind of lubrication on the pedestals that the journal box rides in. In 1988 I had moved a car on pads that had been put in in 1969. They looked like new. I also had a loco moved that year on friction bearings and another one a couple years later. I even had equipment moved on friction bearings that had a load on it. All were inspected by an FRA inspector and approved for movement and one loco went thru interchange as did one of the passenger cars. There are exceptions to the rules. One of the major problems with the pad lubricators is that people do not install them properly. A properly installed one will already be filled with oil before it is installed. Not put in dry and then oil added to the journal box to level. Even pre-filling them is often done wrong. You need a tank to do it correctly and you need to weight the pads down so that they are submerged in the oil. Let them sit a few days and then pull them out when needed.This gives the oil time to be absorbed by the foam and cotton. Yes it is messier but it is the correct way to do it. And once installed, oil added to the journal box is just the supply of oil not what is needed to soak the pad. Moving anything on pads put in dry and then oiled is an invitation to a hotbox.
@@rearspeaker6364 The Army taught me that trick in Feb of 1988. I had to install pads in 8 journal boxes that day after rebuilding the trucks on a flatcar. Side dump had brakes but no brake beams on the flatcar. Trucks could not swap so it was take apart all 4 trucks and swap out the 4 brake beams into the ones for the flatcar. Once done, the side dump was loaded on the flatcar along with its trucks. Yep, my hands were oily that day. Cars made a 1000 mile trip and no hotboxes.
@@gravelydon7072 I am speechless! a lot of work to get a flat car ready for interchange, my experience was on a SW-9, just changing out the pads cleaning out the boxes, and inspecting the brasses, me being the assistant doing the work that day. the pads we're soaking in 5 gallon buckets for 2 weeks, with me adding oil to them every couple of days, until the oil would stay above the the top of the pads.
@@rearspeaker6364 They do soak up quite a bit which is why it is best to soak them first before installing. The ALCo S2 moved as was and had no problems on brass at 15 MPH. The ALCo RS-1 was on roller bearings so no problems at whatever speed CSX moved it at. The S-2 slug, managed to shred a motor as it was moved at excessive speed, so ended up with motor and axle in a gon and a replacement axle in the slug. Hospital cars moved on their own wheels. Some on roller bearings and others on friction bearings. The one Hospital Car moved on the back of a piggy back train on brass and beat the keys getting here even though both left at the same time. First 30 miles were at 15 MPH then it was whatever speed the piggy moved at. Left on a Friday and arrive on Monday after about a 1000 mile trip.
To call a bearing a 'friction bearing' sounds really weird - as the whole point of a bearing is to prevent (or at least, minimise) friction. In Britain, we call them plain bearings - to distinguish them from ball or roller bearings.
Was that friction bearing in service? If so, can you let us know where it is in service at? We still have an operational ALCO RS-1 with friction bearings. But it does not leave our yard.
RUclips already has a feature called shorts, but they need to be less than a minute long. RUclips currently heavily promotes shorts if made correctly. You could actually promote your short videos with shorts, but naming them shorts may cause some problems with the RUclips algorithm as they are detected using the #Shorts hashtag.
What part of New England where in? Because you have gone to a place called the Quabbin. Where 4 towns disappeared to make a water basin. For the city of Boston. And there used to be. The New York Central line. Called the Rabbit. That used to Run from Athol to Springfield Mass. And my Dad's father helped build the Quabbin. And in 1985 they reintroduced the Bald Eagle and now there is 50 pairs of Eagles around the area. And you mispronounced Worcester. The P&W which is owned by G&W or Genovese and Wyoming. Is the Former New Haven RR.
I worked for a co. once owned by ALCO. We made 1000's of Journey box covers every week. In the beginning most didn't have gaskets but later I would say 90% of what made did. The covers where made in different sizes , from what we called 5×9 to 7×14 plus sizes in between. Also we made elliptical springs for caboose clear up to N&W's 2-6-6-4. The spring plates for coil springs came in all sizes
The company unfortunately went bankrupt and all the dies and drawings where destroyed from what I was told. Thanks for bringing back memories to a 81 year old guy.
John, your a good man, thanks for commenting on here and sharing some of your past experiences. I enjoy all of the railroad experiences shared here and that also includes skill professionals that are not tied to a railroad past but have a lot to offer…I’ve been retired for 8 years and I do know how to make and old alco and a jeep go..you made me feel good today….ms~~~
When Uncle Pete bought the SP, a siding full of roller bearing freight, passenger, MOW cars and a locomotive somehow made it from one branch to another overnight (About a 25 mile move) and got spotted on "our" lead. We had been trying to get that move to happen for a number of years. I thnk it was a parting gift from the old SP regime before "The Rules" took over completely. The week before the move, "Someone" serviced all of the journal boxes, checked the brake lines and couplers. Made it with no issues.
If I remember correctly, from my days of being a Toolmaker/Instrument maker, what you and me call "Brass" bearings were in fact a type of bronze[brass alloy] and in their most developed form are Sintered Bronze. Sintered Bronze is porous[think aerated] which will hold the oil for a much longer time and I think is now the most commonly used small plain bearing material used. The Babbet material on the bearing face of your brass bearings we knew as "White Metal" ! Many was the hour I spent in the past scraping off the high spots of white metallised brass bearings using engineer's blue to mark the low spots to obtain a precision fit and prevent the bearing overheating because of the high spots, lol. The majority of our old preserved Steam Locomotives here in The UK have Brass white metalled bearings, so re-white metalling them at major overhaul time is quite common and keeps the old Fitting skills of Bearing Scraping alive.
"Oillite", developed by Chrysler for the army during the second great war.
You can squeeze liquids right through it.
@@scotcoon1186 Actually, it was developed earlier than the second world war by Chrysler. Engineers Carl Breer, William Sherwood and metallurgist Bill Caulkins developed Oilite bearings in the 1930s for Chrysler car clutch bearings initially. You may find this article interesting www.bowman.co.uk/news/a-brief-of-oilite-bearings
I’m a retired locomotive engineer and there were many a time when we couldn’t pick up cars enroute account of having the brass stolen from the journal boxes.
Wow!
FYI, at 0:50, the text says "journel" instead of "journal". The old-time railroad police watched for people trying to get into journal boxes for the end brass. The babbitted brass bearings were harder to get at while still mounted to a car on a siding... But, maybe that's the issue why Class 1 railroads won't move a locomotive with the old-style journals.
I found it interesting that you found both the foam (newer) style and the older (string mop head) style oil holder in that journal box. Someone clearly didn't clean out the "nasty mess" while putting a new bearing oil retention system into the journal box.
When I hired out with the IC RR in 1980 they had recently phased out the `oiler’ jobs. Some older Box Cars still used those friction bearings but were being oiled by Carmen Apprentice’s in the Yard.
Remember seeing rolling stock that had been converted. Had the old friction bearing frames but the doors removed and you could see the roller with the 3 bolts spinning. Mostly the cabooses in their last days on the Cheap & Nothing Wasted
When we got Steam Locomotive SPX-745 back in service we put roller bearings on her tender and left the doors on and operational to keep the 50s look.
Seen the same thing on None Stingier. Caboose and M&W cars.
We still have some cabooses on the UPRR that were former CNW with friction bearings... they are all used in M.O.W. service...
Eric T Are you sure they still have friction bearings? Or have they been converted to roller bearings, but still have the doors on the boxes?
J Stutzman What is None Stingier?
One of the best train videos I've seen, because no one I've found before has shown the inside of the box. I like the concept of shorts like this. Please keep them coming. From a subscriber in SW Ohio. Thanks.
Interesting video guys. My grandfather worked in a railyard most of his life, and my father did briefly as well shortly after getting out of the navy. Dad said he and grandpa spent a lot of time filling the oil boxes on the cars. I guess this could have been what he was talking about. Thanks!
50+ years ago I watched a movie where the train stopped because of a "Hot box" that caught on fire. Today I learned just what the hell they were talking about.
Nice to see an American working with his bare hands and getting them dirty, first time i have seen someone work without gloves protecting and keeping their hands from getting dirty, way to go Sir
I’m bringing teacher a big red apple to the next class. He’s great, and I don’t have to do any dirty work. ETR rocks!!
Very interesting and enjoyable seeing the disassembly of these old journal boxes and a good explanation of how they work. Love how your not afraid to get your hands dirty.
Hope to see more of these shorts... great stuff!
I can remember as a kid my Dad talking about these old boxes. He spent a lot of his time on the old SP watching trains go by looking for hot boxes.
I was an over-the-road truck driver in the mid 1990s. I was waiting for the truck to be loaded at a steel mill in Granite City Illinois. On site near the loading docks was a siding with several old low-sided gondolas, and flat cars. They had journal boxes without the end brass pieces (your video was the first I had seen or heard of them). They looked like someone had stuffed old skeins of yarn or old stocking caps in the journal boxes. The build date on one of those was still visible. It was in the 1930's. Apparently the plant used them on the grounds for moving some parts around. They apparently made the heavy parts of railroad "trucks" in that plant at some point, as there were many laying around. They had an octagon with a G in it cast into the side. I've seen those markings on other RR equipment since then. I never was sent to that plant to load again, I have no idea if the plant is still open or if the ancient cars still exist.
norfolk southern moved an alco-s1 from ADM elevator in riga michigan to waterville ohio 5 years ago,engine was donated to the toledo lake erie and western railway,granted NS never had to use main lines to get it there but it was on journal boxes
I'm a retired engineer it was probably 30 years ago we were assigned to move decommissioned ore cars that had these type of boxes when we arrive at are destination there where at least three of them on fire.
I remember summer nights at my aunt and uncles house in the country. They lived by what was N,C,&StLo.Then it was L&N, then the conglomerate of the SAL, B&O, L&N, that morphed into CSX. In those days they used journal boxes and on dark nights we'd watch the night train speed by where occasionally you'd get to see a hot box. I think they made the flange of the steel wheels glow red hot! Don't know if it caused any crashes but, they were fun to watch.
Love your "shorts" concept! Great way to improve our general RR knowledge. Keep 'em coming!
Im a DSLE and have been on the railroad for about 14 years. If I can recall correctly you can move a journal bearing piece of equipment with what we call a OTMA. A one time movement authority, but I could be wrong about this. Unfortunately the Class 1s make it hard to move vintage equipment
I've replaced a few pieces of waste from journal boxes before. From my experience, they are foam on the inside with the outside layer being that "mop head" material with the strands of fabric that extend. They are a real pain to replace. You have to jack up the axle to remove the weight and pull it out with a hook. Then you get a new pad, soak it with journal oil and shove it in with a "spoon". From my understanding it's hard to come by journal oil in small amounts for small time operations like ours was, but I believe Shell still makes and distributes oil of the right viscosity. I remember filling the old squirt can in the shop from a 50 gallon drum with a pump. I recall the barrel being yellow with red lettering, and I think I recall the CMO saying Shell in conversation. I'm sure he was probably telling me about how expensive the stuff was lol.
Thanks for the Very Detailed discussion today, Professor. I think most have seen a Hot Box. 😬👍
In the 60s my father was a nightwatchman in the railways workshops , his shift was the midnight till 8am, sadly the brass bearings were the biggest target for the criminal fraternity of the time, as I was a kid I would go too work with him on the weekend's, on this one weekend my father was ill with the flu so we didn't go too work but strangely enough his very good friend did his shift and was extremely badly injured by 3 burglars. Sadly he passed away some months later, hence even today I look at every train especially the bearings.
Warren this is Brian. I was moved by your story, to think about guy working midnights to feed his family, is killed by someone, so they can take what is not theirs. The brass was probably only worth 4$ and everybody involved lived with the regret of what happened for the rest of their days. Its far better to work honestly for what you earn and live in peace.
When they went to Timken roller bearings they said trains would roll so much easier and take less power to get rolling.
That is an an accurate statement.
@@billmorris2613 and more handbrakes must be applied also, to keep a roller bearing consist from moving.
rear speaker I don’t recall having to set more hand breaks to keep a train from moving. Or to use anymore air reduction to stop or slow down a moving train.
In addition to locomotives, any type of cars with friction bearings are not permitted for "interchange" service, that being where the car(s) are handed off from one road's system to another road for furtherance. Any historical cars, or equipment with friction bearings may still be used on their own home roads, in captive service. Long distance transport would require ferrying the car or equipment on a (modern) flatcar or low-boy, or by simply placing (modern) compliant bogies beneath the equipment for transport, and then re-placing the original bogies under it at destination.
Not being an RR guy, are the friction bearings no longer allowed because they have a high frequency of failure, too high of maintenance, etc.? Thanks in advance!
Railroad switched to roller bearings because they were cheaper to maintain and easy to train the new and old crew on Friction bearings are safe if maintained properly but it is now law that any equipment with friction bearings Can’t operate past switches of there home track/rail line , Plus most railroad like (up)do not won’t or allow that type of bearing .
@@thumperjdm - Friction bearings rely 100% on good oil, any loss of lubrication leads to immediate, dramatic failure. Think….smoke, fire, derailment, etc. Roller bearings are much more tolerant of misuse, the balls will still turn when dry, although they’ll wear out much quicker. Friction/plain bearings (specifically hydrodynamic bearings) are still better for large machines with meticulous maintenance, like power plants and some wind turbines. If everything is done correctly, there’s no metal contact, everything floats on a fluid film. I bring up wind turbines because roller bearings are the reason why some of the older models had so much trouble. The loads are so high the bearings in the gearbox would tear themselves apart, and manufacturers fixed this by switching back to plain bearings.
Oh...trucks.
@@thumperjdm Yes, that's basically it in a nutshell. The home railroad that has or owns the equipment with friction bearings can run it within their own system if they want, and they will be prepared and set-up to pay more attention to these "maintenance-intense" items, whereas other railroads may not have the means or desire to pay special attention to equipment that poses a higher risk. They are considered "very high maintenance" by direct comparison to more modern sealed, permanently lubricated roller bearings that usually provide years, if not decades, of trouble-free service, whereas friction bearings are a known design that WILL need oil level checked periodically and probably some oil added. Being direct contact, yes, they will be a high frequency of failure by design. Keeping them properly oiled, and paying good attention to them can lead to a longer life, but the wear still does occur.
VERY interesting and educational. Best of luck and I wish you and the railroad prosparity and good fortune. I love when any unused tracks are salvaged and put back in use. I have been a railroad fan since I was about three (now 62 ouch). I only wish I was closer as I would love to help. Stay safe and healthy. Happy Thanksgiving to all !!!!!
Kids used to dig babbit bearing metal out of railcar axles to melt into slingshot ammo. True fact.
Galveston RR Museum had some vintage rolling stock severely damaged because the class 1s that served the Island would not move them when hurricane Ike was headed their way in 2008. It was due to friction bearings on the older rolling stock. I think afterward, when 6 feet of water flooded the museum and its yard, an agreement was made (I believe it was with UP) that made an exception in the case of major storms. The museum has its own power (two EMD F7s and a utility switcher of some sort) and could drag the rolling stock out of harm's way rather easily, not sure though what the agreement is, the details are foggy now. I think the class 1 power would move the rolling stock to more inland sidings. Anyone here have more accurate info?
Does UP go to Galveston Island? I thought only Santa Fe did, unless their merger with BN somehow entitled UP to trackage rights onto the island.
@@ralfie8801 Yes, UP and BNSF both serve the island and each have yards there. UP Galveston sub and BNSF Galveston sub merge just before the causeway.
Is that how they lost the UTLX 83699 (the four-truck 50,000 gallon tank car), it floated off it's trucks and it couldn't be moved back (or funds were lacking to retrieve it?) and it was cut up in-place.
I always wondered if the top/bottom outlets had been opened prior to the storm surge, would the tank have filled with water from the bottom up and not floated away?
@@RailRide Yeah it lifted off and capsized a short distance away and ended up scrapped. Sad. I think your idea of opening the tank up might have saved it if it could have filled quickly enough, the storm surge was quite speedy.
Thanks for the inside view of the journal box. I knew the theory but hadn't seen it disassembled. Thanks again, Ed
Ed That was a fun mini series, another one you will enjoy is on the relation ship between the rail and wheel. Sounds dull but there are some assumptions that I will challenge. Professor Williams
no ball bearings? wow! learning something new about trains! awesome!
A plain bearing is not “cause of death”! Human error or laziness is! Let me remind you that hundreds of thousands of freight,passenger cars and steam locomotives ran on these everyday for decades with proper maintenance and attention, before higher speeds and heavier trains dictated improvements were needed! If the bearing is well maintained and topped up with oil everyday before use there is no reason it should fail! I would like to point out that a roller bearing will fail pretty quickly if it’s seals fall and it runs dry! That is why it is not safe to ignore a rumbling wheel bearing on your car!!
My main interest is the progress of East Terminal Railway.
Chad
This is Brian. First thanks for watching and rooting for the ETR. You and I have a common interest, making a success out of a project many over looked or didn't have the audacity to try. The truth is the ETR hasn't made a penny yet and I have to pay the bills! So if my day is RR and is moving us closer to the goal line I show it. I just bought a load of RR ties, stay tuned.
@@eastterminalrailway5975 hang in there, Brian.... you are on the right track.... Bill in Vermont
The description of the journal box and dissemble videos are great keep going with your information on trains
the Dallas museum moved all their rolling stock from East Dallas to Frisco TX on their friction bearings
👍💯. You're incredible!
Looking forward to more shorts.
Brian: "I'm going to make some short videos... 4 minutes or less"
Video: *goes **9:43*
Brian: "It'll get better..."
Thanks for the video today, regardless of length!
Man I'm so proud of you and your son. You guys doing a great job .
Thanks Kenny!
I bet that the "friction bearing issue" is why when a steam locomotive is moved it is typically lifted onto a car, not attached directly to the train and pulled on its own wheels.
the main issue is no steam to run the lubricator turning every moving part into a hot box because no mainline is going to let you stop every 15/20 miles to manually lube the bushings
The "mop head" is called wicking and pulls the oil from the bottom up to the shaft. You oil and pack new wicking to keep it lubed.
I love having a RUclips channel that I can actually call a railroad School / class! 💯
Please use horizontal position of camera and don't rush your essays. You have a pleasant personality and 4 minutes leaves out too much. I try to keep my technical stuff to around 20 - 30 minutes and still leave out too much. Go thru the exercise first unrecorded, then do it again live, then avoid speeding the recording while fumbling with taking things apart. I like your teaching style.
I had no idea and always wondered! Thanks for this most informative video! Makes sense after watching!
Love your channel have a blessed day.
I understand that waste was used prior to invention of Mop heads, but the waste used to dry out and pieces of it would find their way between the journal and the brass, eventually causing a hot box.
This guy knows his stuff !
It’s all roller bearings now
Port Stanley Terminal Rail has a supply of new mop heads for these bearings.
From a retired railroader.. If the prime mover is still good, and If you can find parts for that Canadian Pacific ALCo, I would pay to have the axles changed to roller bearing and ship it to yourself by rail.. might be some nice power for you.
Just wondering if I have missed anything being uploaded 🤔 seems to me that a disassembled truck and axle is out of sequence with the calendar. Always check daily for your videos.
I always enjoy and learn a bit from you! Thanks!
Thanks for that. So often you just read or hear "friction bearing" without any real explanation as to how they are different or why they are "bad." Now we know!
As an apprentice on the UK Railways in the 1970's I spent several weeks scraping journal bearing brasses to axels on rolling stock ...................... tedious work
Another awesome video!! It been my dream to work on the railroad.
Good afternoon from SE Louisiana 24 Jul 21.
Wow, that's cheap to swap over. I figured it would be $10k an axle. Great to save an S-2. I got to run the one on the West Chester RR. They're donating it to the Martinsville I think it's called Roundhouse group. It doesn't have transistion so is only really good for switching.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and actually showing us what you are working on ⭐️
Interesting. The P& W RR engine you showed is from where I live.
Awesome - I learned something new today
Shame I did not know you guys were out this way . I would have shown you guy the BKR ( Battenkill Railroad ) short line . Maybe next time . Ud like the old iron they have .
I bet they went to roller bearings soon after they could manufacture them to the right quality in order for them to last longer than the oiled friction surface ones. Babbit made a lot of people's lives a bit easier with his bearing alloy discovery.
Just like with modern Janney couplers and Westinghouse air brakes, the railroads probably put off converting to roller bearings for decades after they were introduced because of the cost of switching the entire fleet over. New passenger cars were built with them long before the freight cars and older passenger were converted. Sometimes it takes a law to force their hand and make them move.
Nice video, learned a lot from the comments section.
Happy highballing!
Friction bearings have not been used on the major railroads in decades. It takes a special waiver to move one on one of the class ones if they would take it at all.
That's interesting. I've always noticed the bolts on the axles--when I'm driving by and I can't tell for sure if a train is moving, I look at those 3 bolts and can immediately tell if the train is rolling.
Thanks for showing this. I had a good idea of what was in the box, but I've never seen one t disassembled. I must have missed something....what is the truck off of and why are you taking it apart?
Modern railway vehicles have roller bearings usually timken or skf. Old locomotives have white metal or brass plain bearings. The plain bearings have a small oil reservoir above the bearing . These have to be topped up with oil every day . Anyone who has worked on or operated a steam railroad locomotive will know you have to oil the axel boxes valve gear and motion every morning.
Could you do a video on the different types of railroad semaphores? Top end slanted ,curved ,v shaped and straight. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing, teacher! Can I stay after class for extra credit? I want to learn more!
Most class one lines won’t touch equipment with plain bearings, but until recently the TM support bearings were still plain. Within the last 20-30 years these went to rollers. Go figure no plain journal, but plain support bearings.
By the way the railroad Providence and Worcester is pronounced Wuster.
Great video, more tutorials like this would be cool.
Smoking hot boxes were common down here in NZ in their day, neat little video bro. Safe travels
Thanks for the look at the workings of a friction bearing. Suggest you use PPE gloves to protect your hands and fingers. What locomotive that you disassembled are you referring to?
@ 9:43 @East Terminal railway is Providence and wor cester
Thanks for the info. Good to see 1 apart to better understand. Welcome to New England, you're still too far south and missed the good part though lol. And Worcester is pronounced "Wusta"
Or the more dramatic spelling "Woostuh"!
Could you modify the bearing to modern roller bearing?
I know there's a cost but the reliability and service will be much greater saving cost in the long run plus as you said having speed instrumentation which could be a benifit.
Thanks for the technical information and video.
It is alleged that Timpken invented the term "friction bearing" as a negative description of the traditional brass bearings when advertising for their roller bearings. Is it a 44 tonner that you are working on? That could work for you on your little line.
Did you see my detailed comment about this above?
I thought the bearing material would be sintered bronze?
I stopped working on the railroad for the same reason I stopped 🐘 elephant hunting...... the decoys got too heavy.
Is it possible to convert from brass alloy wiper bearings to roller bearings on that old axle journal ?
Very interesting, thank you!
Very interesting 👍🏻😎🏴
No, every journal box does not have a thrust bearing that rides on the end of the axle. The item that sits on the top of the "brass" is called the "wedge". Newer is a relative term when it comes to pads instead of waste for supplying oil to the axle. The pad in that journal should have been replaced as it is worn out. A good pad has the mop like material completely surrounding the foam pad. The truck also shows signs of improper maintenance as there is no evidence of any kind of lubrication on the pedestals that the journal box rides in. In 1988 I had moved a car on pads that had been put in in 1969. They looked like new. I also had a loco moved that year on friction bearings and another one a couple years later. I even had equipment moved on friction bearings that had a load on it. All were inspected by an FRA inspector and approved for movement and one loco went thru interchange as did one of the passenger cars. There are exceptions to the rules.
One of the major problems with the pad lubricators is that people do not install them properly. A properly installed one will already be filled with oil before it is installed. Not put in dry and then oil added to the journal box to level. Even pre-filling them is often done wrong. You need a tank to do it correctly and you need to weight the pads down so that they are submerged in the oil. Let them sit a few days and then pull them out when needed.This gives the oil time to be absorbed by the foam and cotton. Yes it is messier but it is the correct way to do it. And once installed, oil added to the journal box is just the supply of oil not what is needed to soak the pad. Moving anything on pads put in dry and then oiled is an invitation to a hotbox.
taught that exact same lesson in 1987, its really messy, but it works very well.
@@rearspeaker6364 The Army taught me that trick in Feb of 1988. I had to install pads in 8 journal boxes that day after rebuilding the trucks on a flatcar. Side dump had brakes but no brake beams on the flatcar. Trucks could not swap so it was take apart all 4 trucks and swap out the 4 brake beams into the ones for the flatcar. Once done, the side dump was loaded on the flatcar along with its trucks. Yep, my hands were oily that day. Cars made a 1000 mile trip and no hotboxes.
@@gravelydon7072 I am speechless! a lot of work to get a flat car ready for interchange, my experience was on a SW-9, just changing out the pads cleaning out the boxes, and inspecting the brasses, me being the assistant doing the work that day. the pads we're soaking in 5 gallon buckets for 2 weeks, with me adding oil to them every couple of days, until the oil would stay above the the top of the pads.
@@rearspeaker6364 They do soak up quite a bit which is why it is best to soak them first before installing.
The ALCo S2 moved as was and had no problems on brass at 15 MPH. The ALCo RS-1 was on roller bearings so no problems at whatever speed CSX moved it at. The S-2 slug, managed to shred a motor as it was moved at excessive speed, so ended up with motor and axle in a gon and a replacement axle in the slug. Hospital cars moved on their own wheels. Some on roller bearings and others on friction bearings. The one Hospital Car moved on the back of a piggy back train on brass and beat the keys getting here even though both left at the same time. First 30 miles were at 15 MPH then it was whatever speed the piggy moved at. Left on a Friday and arrive on Monday after about a 1000 mile trip.
Watching this in my ETR shirt 😎
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Can you even get replacement brass and other parts for friction bearings?
A well equips shop will rebuild them. Done all over the country
Very informative and interesting. Great video. Thanks for posting.
I love this type of video! Keep them coming.
Fascinating! Thank you so much!
The P&W! Sweet! Are you in my backyard, in Worcester?? Or did the locomotive come to you?? Thanks!!
Nice job Brian 👏 👍.
Learned something new...thanks!
Thanks for the lesson!!!
To call a bearing a 'friction bearing' sounds really weird - as the whole point of a bearing is to prevent (or at least, minimise) friction. In Britain, we call them plain bearings - to distinguish them from ball or roller bearings.
In my experience we called round sliding bearings "journal bearings". Never head of friction bearings before.
I remember seeing these when I was a kid
Was that friction bearing in service? If so, can you let us know where it is in service at? We still have an operational ALCO RS-1 with friction bearings. But it does not leave our yard.
Thanks for the info!
Catchy title!
Thank you teacher...may I have another?
He will give two lumps next time.
Ok boys, time for a track work video with lesson please.
Very; informative and interesting, thanks for posting this
O.K. got the answer after watching the video a second time!
RUclips already has a feature called shorts, but they need to be less than a minute long. RUclips currently heavily promotes shorts if made correctly. You could actually promote your short videos with shorts, but naming them shorts may cause some problems with the RUclips algorithm as they are detected using the #Shorts hashtag.
What part of New England where in? Because you have gone to a place called the Quabbin. Where 4 towns disappeared to make a water basin. For the city of Boston. And there used to be. The New York Central line. Called the Rabbit. That used to Run from Athol to Springfield Mass. And my Dad's father helped build the Quabbin. And in 1985 they reintroduced the Bald Eagle and now there is 50 pairs of Eagles around the area. And you mispronounced Worcester. The P&W which is owned by G&W or Genovese and Wyoming. Is the Former New Haven RR.
Old journal boxes used to get really hot !
when they are not maintained.