The Isdal Woman: What most likely happened (mini documentary)
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- The Isdal Woman: What most likely happened
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Who do you think she was?
I am still trying to figure out how she could have killed herself with sleeping pills while still lighting herself on fire, and having no signs of fire at the scene she was found (suggesting her body was moved). 🤯
I am quite sure she was a mossad agent tasked with some operation involving the Penguin missile. She went off the rails somehow, maybe even tried to defect. She was then killed by her own agency. Apparently, according to Ostrovsky, mossad agents were trained to be able to kill their own colleguages.
Not a chance she set fire to herself, a third party doused her in order to give up the secrets she held. She was most likely part of an underground network but we will never know which one unless she can be identified. As the saying goes, to understand how someone died firstly you have to understand how they lived.
I also believe she was a spy. I always felt that she was of Eastern European heritage. The heavy accent would account for this as well as her (reconstructed) features. Maybe Romania or Slovenian or from those regions. Someone from the former Soviet occupied eastern European countries. But if investigators now concluded that she must have been from southern Germany, that may be the truth then. I think she was afraid and was killed. perhaps even by the Norwegians, for all we know. In the disappearance of Dutch journalist Arjen kamphuis in Norway, much more recently, the Norwegians also played a dubious role in covering up evidence. Fascinating case this and the podcast about the Isdal woman is very detailed and interesting, for those who cannot get enough of this sad tale. It made me actually anxious, while listening; very chilling. There is something eerie about staying in a hotel in a strange country alone, as a woman, anyway.
A new 'circumstantial' theory is that she may have been employed in some capacity by the Swiss banker François Genoud. Genoud was a supporter of Nazi Germany during the WWII era. He moved on to supporting the various Palestinian associated terror organizations that cropped up along with the birth of modern Israel. This new possibility was discovered by an anonymous professional fact checker who listened to a recent podcast of the case on BBC. This is the biggest, most explosive break in the case in fifty years. Apparently there was a high level Norwegian political interest in keeping this case unsolved in the 1970's era due to some concerns over the security of the Norwegian Nuclear power industry. Isdal Woman may you have eternal life.
Do you have a source for the claim that she told someone she was from SA, and that she was heard speaking Afrikaans? Various reliable sources, such as the BBC and Norwegian state broadcaster NRK, have stated that she only ever claimed to be Belgian and that she spoke very poor English and most often spoke German, as well as isotope testing suggesting she was from the Nuremberg area of Germany. Handwriting experts have also agreed that her handwriting was of French influence, making the SA claim even less likely still.
Yes, the isotope pretty much indicated where she was raised.
she’s a queen for making herself 15 years younger hahaha
@@badofior maybe recent divorce and consequently wish to look younger/ draw attention to herself combined with depression and suicidal tendencies
totally understandable...look how older women are treated by society....
A spy that knew somebody was onto her. I think she purposefully left her luggage where she did, complete with the fingerprints on the glasses for identification. It was a message to her employer. After all, who goes through the trouble of concealing identity as well as she did, and then leave things like distinct fingerprints on glass, as well as a coded record of everywhere she's been?
I think she knew she was discovered, put the luggage in its spot, swallowed a bunch of sleeping pills herself in preparation, and then somebody else caught up to her and set her ablaze. To me, it's the only thing that makes it make sense.
Swallowed sleeping pills to prepare for what? If she was a spy even if she was discovered why would she purposely leave herself in a defenseless state? She easily pull have been captured and forced to give information. If the goal was concealing her identity that wouldn’t make any sense and if she truly was trying to commit suicide I doubt a sly would choose sleeping pills, they’re often not fatal and she’d probably know that
Set her ablaze? This seems like a byzantine bunch of things for a spy to do. Would a pro assassin wait for her to do all that, then move in after making sure she is having an overdose / personal meltdown by keeping her under surveillance 24/7, then setting her on fire? She does not get a soldier's death by 'firing squad?' It seems like a bizarre choice of assassination weapon.
Right, just like Somerton Man was a spy too. Except he was already identified and guess what? He wasn't a spy, he was just a depressed dude who got divorced
@@cameronelliott9709 lmao
Abandoning a burned body up on a hillside seems like a really bad idea. Why not just bury it, or take it out to sea?
The body might serve as a message, but from who and to whom?
Jennifer Fairgate, the pseudonym of the woman found dead at the Plaza Hotel in Oslo, and the Isdal Woman, were both found dead in Norway There is also the story about a man called Peter Bergmann, who died in Sligo, Ireland.
young woman in her mid/late 20s, most likely from Germany, claiming to be from Belgium......totally thought of Jennifer as well
@whiskeybravo91
My first thoughts were of " Jennifer " and how strangely similar despite the better part of 3 decades.
whoever she was, i feel very sorry for her
she could be in her eighties now
perhaps somebody grandmother
she would have many interesting stories to tell, but it was destined that she wouldn’t
Definitely think she was a spy/secret agent. Very interesting that just weeks after her body being found, Norwegian police were already lying to the press about her involvement in espionage
After Somerton Man got identified people really should stop throwing the word spy around. Everyone said that guy was a spy too and they were all wrong
Maybe a con artist 🤷♂️
@@malloryknox6802 True but in the woman's case, there are some considerations to think about.
a) She appears to have been burnt alive. Most suicides do not choose that horrific method.
b) There is apparently a correlation between the places she visited and the testing of the penguin missile.
c) Norway is next door to [at the time] Soviet Union and Australia is not.
It seems to me that there is a better chance of some connection with espionage in the woman's case.
Alive but possibly unconscious.
She was definitely not a spy. She was far too eccentric and drew a lot of unwanted attention. That's not how spies operate. Spies blend in and don't get noticed.
It's never a mannequin, oh and I think using penguins as missiles is not necessary and a little mean.
Agree. Poor little things.
And you know what, I had always thought that mannequin thing pretty amusing, given how many times we hear that from the people who find the victims. But then I saw a photo of the body of one of the victims of the Smiley Face Killer. Man, the body looked more like a mannequin than the remains of a person, it's real. I think there's a time window when the body swells a little and the skin will be looking like plastic, especially if it's a pale naked person.
To be fair, we dont make documentaries about the times it really was a mannequin. Also, thats pretty natural first thought, no one expects to find a corpse, our brains dont work that way.
You misunderstodd - it was a missile to use against penguins.
Guys, I wanted to point out not every Norwegian has blue eyes and blond hair, even in 1970 that was true. Even if are you just talking about European Norwegians they have different color eyes and hair.
But in those days, especially not in MAJOR cities, most people would have been white. Nowadays, this is clearly not the case. If you listen to the BBC & NRK podcast ‘Death in Ice Valley’, there is specific mention given to this and also many witness statements where her appearance is described as not being typically Norwegian (for the time). I think it’s important to remember the context and the fact that migration wasn’t *AS* prevalent in the area at the time of IW’s death.
@@Halucynating Did you actually read the comment you just commented on?lol
True, certainly brown hair and brown eyes wouldn’t be all that notable. It was probably more her foreign/nonnativeness that got her noticed.
Duh.
You’ve all got beautiful plumage x
I'm not sure we'll ever know. Someone didn't want her identified.
There may still be a case. Whoever 'erased' her didn't anticipate forsenic genealogy. Unidentified decedents older than her are being identified here in the USA. Including a child who was murdered in 1958. I doubt they can erase her entire family tree.
I hope DNA solves this
Or maybe she didn’t want her family to know. That’s why she went so far from home
If she kept records/lists of where she stayed, i dont think she was an agent...
This is eerily similar to the case of the Somerton Man in Adelaide South Australia in 1948, who was also thought to have been a spy. SA was where the Woomera Rocket Range was located. His body was found with all labels removed from his clothes and there was a mystery message and a page from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyám. His body was unidentified for years.
Joe Scott has updated information on the Somerton man , he has been ID Ed
People repeat the 'missing clothes labels' detail without delving further into it. Some have commented that in that era it was standard business practice to remove labels from clothes destined to be sold at thrift shops. It would make some sense as you would not want spivs diverting the clothes for higher profit sales.
You forgot to say he wasn't a spy and he was just a depressed guy whose wife left him
But he wasn't a spy and neither is this woman obviously, people are just hollyweirded up! She was an escort obviously
So often abandoned store mannequins are hauled up mountain trails and dumper…
She was a Stasi agent (East Germany), which was an extension of the KGB.
Unlikely. South german descent, remember ? She wouldnt have been trustworthy to the KGB or the Stasi.
The dental work reveals who she is. Israeli intelligence. There are many people of german heritage among the israelis. It would make perfect sense.
The fact she was found with 8 different but valid passports can only tell of a state security agency, because they are the only ones known to produce valid passports. Which agency and why is another matter.
The Soviet Union invaded AND ANNEXED Czechoslovakia in 1968? Wow. That was news to me. I wonder if someone ever bothered to tell the inhabitants!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia
@@spencerme3486 Read the caps in my original post.
The poor dear lady had a rare genetic condition. Allegedly she had the fish scent gene. Something like that would be ultra tough to deal with esp. in 1970 when medical science was not as advanced. For a beautiful elegant lady like her it would be a cruel joke of god.
wtf is the fish scent gene
Yeah it's very likely she had that or bromhidrosis, which is not that uncommon
@@malloryknox6802 They pointed out she had remarkably developed thighs. You can see this is apparent in the medical examiner's pic. Rowers have highly developed thighs like that, as well as cyclists I suppose. Sometimes you get to see a shapely woman with highly developed thighs just through genetics but I have sadly not seen many ladies with those genetic features. A rare treat of the Lord.
@@martkbanjoboy8853 there is a pic of her riding a horse. That may explain her strong build.
@@irvhh143Of course that is way more likely. You would expect to see a courtesan showing up to place bets in fancy clothes on Kentucky Derby day, or riding horses when they have the time. I'd not expect to see a courtesan regularly showing up at the eight with coxswain practice with the girls two nights per weekday. It is more likely she was a courtesan rather than a spy. If she was a spy I think she would have been an 'illegal' as what she was doing is not what a professional is trained to do.
Strange that her hair and hair ribbon didnt burn, both fairly flammable.
The secret agent / penguin missile test explanation seems plausible to me .. I am Norwegian and from Stavanger where the missile tests were conducted and trust me when I say ..There is absolutely NO reason at all to go out of your way to come to stavanger , none ...Not back then and not now LOL its grey , gloomy , constantly shitty weather and nothing to do whilst here ...
Mossad...
So cool to hear my little Norwegian town namedropped in this video :D Stavanger!
The one problem with the spy theory is the fact that she seemed to go out of her way to be totally conspicuous, everything from the way she dressed to the eccentric behavior she displayed by putting furniture in the hallway outside her room. Given that she was often seen with different men, was described as attractive, fashionable, even glamorous, and didn’t seem warm or affectionate or even all that familiar with these men, why not the theory that she was an escort? Either she was a spy who was killed because she went out of her way to be noticed and to attract suspicion, or she was somehow involved in sex trafficking and killed herself. The Soviet spy who smelled like garlic, wore wigs, changed hotel rooms often, rearranged furniture, overturned tables and chairs in the hallway outside her door, made herself known to staff, often dined and interacted with different men she didn’t seem to be well acquainted with seems less plausible than a call girl assuming false identities in order to stay ahead of law enforcement, if you ask me.
Perhaps it was both? Maybe she was an escort who, through one or more of her clients, came into information she shouldn't have had? And had to be dispatched?
@@halfbakedproductions7887wow! People are just hollyweird and fantasists 😂 she was obviously a escort
Yea thats my problem with the theory as well. Her behavior seemed to conspicuous to be considered professional trade craft. Granted, her itinerary lining up with all these weapon tests is quite compelling. Im just confused as to why anyone would want someone so eccentric spying for them. Unless she was intended as a decoy to draw attention off the actual intelligence operatives working these same areas.
Also....why a fatal dose of sleeping pills AND being set on fire alive? That one makes no sense either
I have those same thoughts. Spies don't draw that kind of attention to themselves. Spies blend in and don't get noticed. It's possible she was some kind of asset to a professional spy, someone used to gather some basic info, or possibly a honey trap. It's possible she was discarded because she was aging out of the honey trap role, or maybe depressed about it and did the job to herself.
Simple theory is that she was just crazy and depressed, ala Somerton Man.
Maybe she was a favourite escort for somebody working on the missile program?
I've never believed that this was a suicide. The woman had been taking ferries up and down the Norwegian coast, so if she wanted to remain anonymous, why not put weights in her pockets or round her waist and jump into the sea - it would be pretty unlikely for her body to ever be found, and even if it eventually surfaced it would be beyond recognition.
And why would a murderer leave her BURNED body out in the open for someone to find? Unless it was to serve a message, but from who to whom and wouldn't there have been a cleaner way of doing that?
@@halfbakedproductions7887@halfbakedproductions7887 Wasn't she found in a wilderness-type area? Maybe the killer reasoned that her body would decompose before detection... he or she may not have had time to do anything more.
Well done. Thanks for this good recap of the Isdal Woman case. I think you've made excellent choices in what info to include and where the speculation emphasis should be. Thanks.
What is the black and white picture you keep showing? It looks like something under a microscope or something
Smelled strongly of garlic maybe she was over there vampire hunting🤷🏿♂️
I like it. Sounds like the premise for a new Netflix original series: Isdal Woman, Vampire Hunter.
nah they all smell like that close to Bergen, garlic or shit or shitgarlic
Maybe she was a witch.
Must have been the wind...
It's never a mannequin, always a body.
She could have suffered from some sort of mental illness, psychosis, delusions, paranoia. A lot of times the truth is too easy to see. People want it to be some sort of conspiracy or aliens or maybe bigfoot. Somerton man, Dyatlov pass, lady of the dunes...the explanation of most of all these mysteries are to simple to understand that they could have remained mysteries for so long
last year i found an abandon campsite in norway complete with clothes,food, and everything else. i remember getting a really bad vibe. my first idea was an eacaped human trafficked girl or drug addict. i think i saw a couple needles there too. she probably drowned in the sea or got picked up again.. it was weird because it had been there abandoned for a while, but it wasnt like it was hard to find or anything
How could she gain all the passports?
People said Lyle Stevik was involved in 9/11 too 🤦🏻♀️ I swear some people have wild imaginations
Obviously. A well told lie is more entertaining than a boring truth.
PLEASE get some better stock photos!!!
Not much point repeatedly showing the picture of the body if you’re going to have to pixelate it beyond recognition.
Somehow, I don't think she was a secret agent or spy. If she was, why did she go to so many lengths to stand out the wsy she did? Changing rooms several times, rearranging the furniture etc, stinking of garlic (less common in Northern Europe in the 70s than it is today). It attracted attention - the opposite of what a spy wants to do.
Maybe she WAS indeed involved in espionage, but some of her behaviour and her appearance just seems incompatible with that.
I think she was a spy, but not a trained one. It might have been her first or second year working as an agent and her terrified and outstanding behavior due to lack of experience in the spying field caused that she was caught and killed. I once came up with the theory that she might have been on the run from an insane lover, but why was she then moving around the very exact spots where the missiles were being tested? That makes nonsense either!
I think she might have been an escort who through a client learned of things she shouldn't have known about. She therefore "had to go". This is why here in the UK, despite sex work being mostly decriminalised, it's a serious breach of any higher level government security clearance you might have. Using sex workers may be seen as you having a lack of integrity, being untrustworthy, and possibly corruptible because people have dirt on you.
But again, why burn the body and dump it in that location? Why not just take it somewhere else, dump it at sea or suchlike?
@@halfbakedproductions7887 If caught carrying a body out of that area that would have looked strange and garnered attention..
God sleeping pills are such a shitty way to go. Also, so is Tylenol
ER and hospital pharmacist of the last 9 years.
You’re right- Tylenol is an absolutely horrible way to go. Sleeping pills, faaaaar less so.
I’ve seen a lot of overdoses of a lot of drugs
One of my favorite mysteries!
Not a spy
4:16 Philipstockstraat is not in Brussels, but in Bruges!!! I grew up there... Ostend is 25klicks away from Bruges
Again...I Clicked IMMEDIATELY!!
why is the form filled out in german?
Correction... All races of south Africa speak Afrikaans not just white south Africans
Shut up
Is it just me, or doesn't it seem obvious to you that since there was no fire by her body, it must have been incinerated elsewhere? And therefore killed elsewhere? The hike takes 1 to 1 1/2 hrs., not carrying a charred corpse at that. It therefore is extremely unlikely that she was lugged uphill in order to deposit it out of view. Therefore, I think she was either dropped from the air, most likely from a helicopter, or taken from a copter, carried a relatively short distance and deposited where she lay until discovered. So I ask, did the police check records of helicopter take offs and landings? Are there level spots near the corpse on which a copter could land?
Wouldn't there be an injury that showed this?
Smell of garlic ? Are they sure she didnt smell of ammonia instead ? Because to me it seems she was walter white.
Which checks out considering she did request to have furniture removed (for the lab obviously).
Very interesting, but can the producer of these vids clear up his back yard please, getting rather fed up of seeing that pallet every time.
I feel like she might have had something like paranoid schizophrenia and she was running from a threat that only existed in her mind.
@17:24 she looks EXACTLY like the Taylor Schabusiness Mugshot. I mean… it’s uncanny
😮😅
I would like the Occam's Razor take on what most likely happened to Rasheem Carter. What's the likelihood that he was being chased down by 3 trucks full of white supremacists versus that he was suffering from delusions, fled into the woods, died there and animals dismembered his body in the month he was missing?
Industrial espionage? Wasn't Bergen the site of Norsk Hydro's headquarters in the 1970s?
An episode on the Aarushi Talwar case please
No doubt a secret agent
I always wanted to write the first comment on a youtube video but I never had the chance.
But now I do have the chance and I took it 😂
Hero 🦸♀️
Once in a lifetime😂💪🏻
Her identity could be resolved via dna and family tree. They just need to release the info.
I want to go out like this
The chemicals in her teeth should tell of her organs.
I wonder why she used Belgium and 1945 twice. She's gotta be a spie
There are some parallels with Somerton Man
80 sleeping pills? Jesus
how do they no where she had her teeth don?
Dna
just for the record, "Kjell" (10:50) is pronounced "shell", or at least it was among the norwegians i knew growing up.
It depends on the dialect.
In central east for example like Oslo most say «Kjell» as «Shell» but most parts of Norway we pronounce «Kjell» as «Tchell»
In Oslo we sa Kjell too! (as in kjøkken = kitchen or kjøtt = meat. Only some of the younger generation say Shell. We used to look at that pronounciation as a speech impediment. Now the schools let the younger generation pronounce it anyway they like, instead of theaching the right way to say the words. Shell is easier to say than the correct Kjell. I have friends and family in Oslo, and they do not like to be called Shell😀
Where are the likes for this video??
Beatrix Potter!!!!
Bet they can find a DNA relative of hers...
If she was a Red then she had a well-deserved fate and she in fact got off easy.
Same goes for the criminals of the CIA and NED that topple democratic governments that are not following the orders of us oil and banksters
Genetic genealogy.
Pixels!
Ok
isotope analysis of her teeth and DNA testing should give a very specific location of where she was originally from
The problem is that we have very few samples. I.e. South America: 50 area's. That doesn't pinpoint it yet
Yes, the isotope indicated a place in Central Europe, a very specific Franco-German place, if I recall it correctly. It should be in the video.
She is clearly Ashkenazi
👍👍👌👌⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐✌✌❗
A little too boring
I mean…. She killed herself by trying to overdose but then set herself on fire? Idk the fire thing doesn’t make sense.
No but she could have been severely mentally ill. But I agree, setting yourself on fire to kill yourself is very rare.
@@paulohagan3309 sure but she clearly did not take all those pills then proceed to light herself on fire, even if she was ill.
It makes sense if she didn't want to be identified, even in death.
@@goobah6072 lol no it doesn’t. Not remotely.