Worst MMO Ever? - Tree of Savior
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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Tree of Savior is a gorgeous looking MMORPG, a graphical throwback to the classic JRPG's from the SNES era.
It's the spirit of Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Legend of Mana, Lufia, Secret of Evermore, it looks, and plays, like a classic RPG.
Unfortunately, it's monetized... a lot.
Thanks to the Patreon supporters and Twitch subs for keeping the channel going :)
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NOT SPONSORED - Just legit think this is a good deal - Halo Multiplayer free:
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Tree of Savior was developed by Kim Hakkyu, creator of Ragnarok Online and published by Nexon. One thing really interesting I found out about this game is that it is based on traditional Lithuanian culture and mythology. I think we have never seen a game that takes inspiration from that. cool
Nexon is the answer to why this happened.
No wonder. I was looking at all these login bonus popups thinking "gosh this sure looks like maplestory, just as overwhelming to start"
Korean and other east Asian games can get into some lesser known mythology. Mabinogi which is a other Nexon title is based on Celtic mythology.
@@gerryw173ify Heck the name of the game comes from Mabinogion, a book of welsh mythology.
No wonder this game is dying, Lithuania as a whole has less than 3 million population.
It absolutely broke my heart to hear your comment about there being no reason to explore, nothing to find in maps besides monsters to kill and move on... because in the very, very early days, exploration was one of THE key selling points of this game, and those fun secrets and hidden puzzles should still exist in the early game. There are hidden chests in many of the early maps that give out exclusive cosmetics and helpful items, or hidden quests that don't have any kind of marker and can only be discovered by diligently exploring and interacting with NPCs and objects. There were time-based puzzles and minigames you could complete solo or with friends to get special rewards, and the only way to find and complete these was to discover them yourself or look it up online.
The puzzles, the mystery, the fun little secrets... these were some of my favourite parts of the game. But I think it only took the first or second level cap bump of the game's lifespan before they stopped adding new puzzles and secrets, at least not anything near as interesting or complex as what they'd started with. And because new players are rushed through the early content now with events, they're far less likely to ever find out about these puzzles and secrets at all. For all I know they've been outright removed... and that really does break my heart, because it always felt rewarding to me to go off the beaten path and try to find all those secrets on my own.
ToS is truly a shell of its former self. It used to be something that was really special, really unique. Now it's just another trash MMO with generic gear, bland classes, and a rush to endgame so they can goad players into paying money as quickly as possible. Hate to see it.
So i played this game like start of 2021+-
just to correct, theres still a ton a hidden/secret content and puzzles in maps even in HL areas they never been removed and are being added new ones to the endgame as well with the new areas...
He never tryied to seek anything so thats why he says that....
"shell of it's former self" lmao, it was never good to begin with, just a ruse pulled over our eyes. PS. I was an early supporter of this game, Waited around 2k hrs for IMC to stop being idjets, saw all kinds of stupid decisions, regret time wasted.
i play alot this game grinding money in dg 130 for thousand times 9 times a day.. to clear solmiki 20th floor. the early game its easy. cos in end game the enemy is so damn hard..
When I played ToS my favorite part was exploring. I was trying to get all the accessories. I got the branch with flowers but I never got the black hat ;_;
Sadly, I didn't know how to gear my character when I reached endgame. Everything was complex, some people tried to help but they did their dungeons alone and I couldn't so I left the game.
@@mercs7849 People think this game was once great, but TOS was and still is a linear grind fest with no visible goal and no interesting content to match its class system and gameplay. If you've played the first dungeons and instances, you have experienced what most of the game has to offer. Also, It surprises me how this guy didn't say anything about how fixated this game is in the solo experience and how little reasons it gives you to collaborate with other players when it is supposed to be an MMORPG. In my 150 hours of play time going from map to map doing the same repetive things, I didn't encounter any reason to make a cohesive party. TOS was always a shallow single player RO on a never ending railroad with good ornaments.
I have over 9000 hours in ToS. This was just my favorite game of all time ever, the friends and enemies and fiancé I made. Thank you for tearing it apart, it deserved it for falling to greed.
Is that bad?
@@TheDjubre it is now, it was absolutely amazing before
Yeah, i used to play ToS a lot back in high school. The game was fun, but the pay to win and game problems were growing really rapidly. I stopped playing, but instill feel bad even today. The game is one of the most beautiful games out there,and a unique style. But it has so many problems.
@@zinc2zinc2 Tnx. Is there any similar or fun mmo besides wow,gw2 and ff?
@@TheDjubre mmo is pretty much dead right now sadly.
Omg watching this video actually hurt my soul. I remember how hype and long the buildup for this game was. It was during the decline of MMOs, RO2 came out, but wasn't the successor anyone wanted and it died. This game was trickled around kind of like a secret that kept growing. Finally the day it was here, everyone packed the servers, sooo many players it constantly crashed. All the content you completed in this 30 minute video took us weeks to get through. Slow progression, but it was fun and rewarding, and we had friends all beside us. End game was I think level 50 or 60, where things got bad. But before I go there, everything you were saying, the game had. I'm actually so fkn shocked, the fact that they removed the music and replayed it with club stuff in every area is crazy. People would spend hours in character builders, sharing different builds and combos on the forums. Then you'd have to do a long quest to get your classes which made achieving them feel even more rewarding. The fact you opened a menu, selected what you wanted and were done; that was horrifying. There were not even guides at that time, so you worked together to get the stronger classes because the quests were harder. The game first lost a substantial amount of the player base because of server issues. The server kept crashing, some menus froze your client for 5 minutes, the UI menus were obnoxious. Severs freezing, crashing, and rolling back was brutal; because as I said, max level was around 40-60 so the grind was intense. If you spent 2 hours on 10% at level 30, and the server crashed, and you log back on level 29. Maaaaaannnn people left in droves. They eventually got that fixed, and having so many people leave actually made the gameplay better, because before the maps were overflooded so it was hard to kill mobs. They also added more channels with the changes, as most maps before only had 2. They never made them dynamic to add channels based on how many people on maps (which really sucked because there were leveling spots better than others), but it was something, because the game was so fun and refreshing at this time.
Now, when you made end game, you were around 40 or 50 I think, and your best bet at this point was to just do the daily challenges and instances. They were like party quests from Maple Story, they were a lot of fun, ngl; but obnoxious after doing the same thing every day. Also, they introduced Tokens at this time. This killed the game. Not only did you get bonus exp, move faster, you were able to do these instances more times than others. Everyone thought the game was going to be cosmetic cashshop only. People argued about P2W, because it was possible to buy these tokens off other players for in game gold. But you also make more gold if you have Tokens. Now, this alone wasn't enough to kill the game. But they also did this thing which basically punched the entire community in the face along with it. THEY BANNED PLAYERS FOR MODDING (add-ons). Now, as you showed in the video, the UI was CRAP. Even the text was difficult to read; and some menus you couldn't even open without freezing your client for over 60 seconds! Modders fixed it ALL! They made their own dynamic menus. They added explanations on skills and items. They corrected the translations. They fixed the menu freezing. They allowed you to change the entire UI display to different cool settings. They added Damage meters and stats. They BANNED EVERYONE. There was a damn Add-on manager given to us by the devs, and they banned everyone for using it. Of course they came back apologizing, saying they banned the wrong people, was only supposed to be the exploits banned. But it was too late. Many people used the auto-pot and auto-battle add-ons, and were banned for that; and ToS staff were against giving players at least that back. Nobody cares about the NPC interactions on different maps, but we needed that auto-battle, as the grind endgame was insane. People wanted to just chat to friends . Ragnarok Online literally had it's resurgence the next year with their mobile port with an auto-battler. That simple feature basically saved the game. Yet, ToS saw everyone wanted it, read the forums, like they were actually communicating with the international community, and said fuck you.
Side-note: People hacked the game and had bot squads of 5 characters farming a map to sell gold. That was horrible, and the community gave a ton of ideas to remove them, but cuz we were always ignored, we wanted to at least join them. Cuz fk the grind was insane, when everyone was allowed to auto-battle; nobody cared about the bots doing it. But when nobody could, it was unfair. People who multi-cliented and botted and actually hacked didn't even get banned afterwards. So if you were a good boy, it was like being double punished. Can't join them, and have to watch KS you on every map, meanwhile you got banned for using the legal add-ons.
In conclusion, P2W, banning players for making the game playable, then they kept littering the store with more P2W items. People wanted the exp rate raised a tiny bit, and what they did was add cash shop exp boosts. Making new characters and trying different builds was the whole purpose of the game. They cash shopped skill and class resets. I mean, everyone quit. Not even going to mention the flip-flopping they did on multi-classing and the drama that created.
Now you got this game. It's so sad. I actually wanted to come back to this game many times, but the thought of re-learning all the complexity and the long grind to get to the cool multi-class builds was draining to think about. People wanted to be able to unlocked level checkpoints where you can make a new character at that starting level, because there were like 50 classes, and a billion skill and class combinations. They didn't even give us that. Eventually they begged players to come back by handing out max character boosts; but yeah, you saw the state of the game. Didn't work... this game could've been amazing. If they just made the game B2P, it would've been great. Honestly, they could've made a ton of money from cosmetic shops only. That's what people wanted to do the most. We wanted to sit, chat, emote, and dress up. Dye items and hair... but they didn't listen. Killed a fantastic game.
Thank you for such a detailed retelling of the game's history.
felt this so much the memories came flooding back. Now I'm trying to get back by starting out in a different server cause I can't be bothered to relearn all that stuff with my level 360 characters. The UI also wasn't this bad back then if I remember right, it was less... crowded. It feels like a chore just to close all the pop ups
It breaks my MMO heart when i see such incredible potential ruined by horrific pay-to-win cash shops
As such is always the payment model for most MMOs even tho its such a terrible model for a game's long term longevity
MMO is always pay to win. Broke people don't belong here.
Every mmo is a pay to win bro except for private servers that runs only for months
As a lithuanian, it's weird to see a game based of its folklore. At least it was funny to hear Josh pronouncing Klaipėda
same xD
Ha nice to see some Lithuanian Folk here, hello guys! But I'm surprised to see this eastern game using yours folklore :D (I'm not Lithuanian, but I have many friends there )
I loved it, honestly. Same reason I loved Mabinogi's world. It's so refreshing to see game settings take inspiration from something different instead of the usual generic fantasy tropes or well known greek/norse/etc. mythological settings.
same! i was super confused to see lithuanian names too :D
Yeah, but it absolutely botches all the folklore. It just uses names randomly and thats it.
This video shows me one ultimate truth. Josh really likes Halo Infinite.
Cause it's a fucking good game. I haven't played Halo since Reach and downloaded Infinite because it's free. Never expected it to be this good
@@SmellsVishy i guess but what if you not a fps player XD i more RPG lol so in my eyes its meh but hey ;D its free and its HALO download that shit now fuckers or else RAID SHADOW LEGENDS GONNA FIND YOUR PHONE.
this video shows me one ultimate truth. josh used the wrong you're
@@acuteavocado1962 every party needs a pooper... and that's why they invited youuuuuu.... party pooper... party pooper... party pooper...
@@loomingdeath1758 I mean it's fine that it's not a game for you, but
No one cares
You're mistaken - the game was like that from the beginning. I'm one of the OG Ragnarok Online players who were beta testing Tree of Savior. It was never different from what you see besides all the free stuff you mentioned and the progression was slower (better). The funny thing I remember is that virtually none of the bugs reported by testers were fixed between closed beta updates. We were basically testing the same things over and over again and when the game went open beta all the bugs from the first closed beta were still there except for a selected few. None of the people who were testing with me (all of which were former Ragnarok players) have even played the final game, since the devs neglected it from the start.
I'm wondering if anyone will even see this comment
ToS is the most disappointing game because it has some brilliant class design. Things like linker, most casters, etc. But then it throws away anything that is/was good about it for a full screen aoe spamfest where none of that good ability/combat design matters. It finishes the execution of anything redeeming with hard time gated resources combined with the most soul crushing raid/upgrading grind I've ever seen. And drills p2w through it with a sprinkling of "customer support will respond months later saying they won't resolve something like not receiving an item you paid for".
Even the pvp was sort of as good as RO's but completely undermined by the gear system & terrible netcode.
& yeah launch felt massively premature and like they had given up. Reminds me of renewal in RO, where renewal could have been a good idea if they actually took the time to do it right and not abandon what made the game good but instead they came up with a prototype and shipped it without iterating.
The review touched on the rest of it.
@@oldyoutubeaccount I feel you so bad it hurts. Especially the Renewal comparison, even though I played RO a lot after they introduced it.
I remember only 2 major problems that pretty much killed the game:
1. That Open Source thingie that enabled bots and gold sellers to afk farm while teleporting and oneshotting things.
2. Devs who initially decided to go to war with bots, gold sellers and inflation. The game initially had absurd limitations on trading, you can't trade gold, you can trade only like 1 item per day, somewhere around 30% tax on auction house, somewhere around 70% tax on player-based repair services and enchanting. It was already bad and cash shop looked as if it literally created to fight against gold sellers (like you are still limited even after buying the subscription) ... but it hasn't stopped gold sellers from doing their thing - so devs decided to make things even more harsher (while completely ignoring fixing stuff). It looked great, the music was fine, the story was more or less interesting, the systems were kinda fun to research but it was unbearable to play. Devs were shooting themselves in the foot with this game.
What are u playing nowadays as an old rag player? I was looking for pixel mmo w lifeskills :/
@@brenobarbosa3489 Haven't played mmos in years. I'm too easily hooked
I genuinely hope the artists have moved on to bigger and better things. I'm a big fan of the pixel art style of games like the Secret of Mana series, so this looks absolutely gorgeous, it's just a shame it's let down in other areas.
Ironically enough, the art style reminded me of Legend of Mana in many ways. I wish the Remake of Seiken Densetsu 3 carried this art style. Would have been more amazing. The art is almost of the calibre of Vanillaware works.
Maggi became a tatoo artist
@@frenchalien9108 I'm pretty sure she already was one even while working on ToS.
Man, I remember being part of the beta. It was such a wonderfully different and quirky MMO, but was grindy as hell and needed a shitton of QoL. Unfortunately NCsoft happened, and instead of rebuilding the game from the ground up they had to stitch and make do with completely antagonistic systems and money-hungry microtransactions.
This could've been the MMO to change them all but instead became a hollow receptacle. Honestly if they scrambled together a single player/coop campaign with all the fun and new exciting things that ToS tried, it would ROCK.
PS: I'm such an early fan of ToS that I remember when the first rumors of it's existence were nothing more than gossip about new classes for Ragnarok Online. Most of the initial devs were from Gravity, reason why ToS resembles Ragnarok so much (specially artistically).
Almost same reason when launch the game grindy as fuck, not even fun. Just endless grind.
i was there with you m8. i wanted this game to be good so badly...
@@leatherDarkhorse What did you expect? they advetise it as the successor of Ragnaork? Ragnarok is a grindy as hell game. The 280 level max cap also didn't help too.
CLASSIC NCSOFT!
I totally express this on my comment "grindy" it seem that all player base think the same!
You're right Josh, this is a husk of what was a great game. When the game launched, the stamina mechanics were actually significant, you don't get boosting item to railroad you to end game, and the progression was somewhat more streamlined. The core problem is how they balance the numbers. Instead of making the end game contents progressively slower in power level and making leveling and gearing a diminishing return experience with a logarithmic curve *like a normal game should,* they stay true to their Korean grinder root and make it *exponentially curved* instead like a dumbass.
With a logarithmic progression, the early game will see the players getting stronger by leaps and bounds, giving them rewards and dopamine by the dozen. This is the hook every game need, not that "it gets good in the end" crap talk. Moreover, with logarithmic progression, the late game will be rather relaxed because there is no more sharp power spike that demands you to get significantly stronger to enjoy the contents. After a certain point you can relax and play casually and do every content reasonably. This is the recipe to good player turnover and great player retention.
Sure it would make the gap between casual late game players and heavy grinder late game players minuscule, but grinding is the player's choice, and *should always be player's choice.* Being masochistic should be its own reward, and not be mandated. If you like grinding, great! Go fucking grind. Your grind is not rewarding you enough power to separate you from the casual players? Then don't grind! If you want to have your e-penis stroked for the time and effort you put into an MMORPG, then go somewhere else you sad git.
But the company IMC is too greedy. They reward this late game heavy grinding by releasing ever powercreeped late game gears, because what population is more profitable than no-life grinders willing to pay for faster grinding? The more the player grind, the more powerful they are. Eventually players become too powerful and IMC is forced to release even harder contents to entertain them, and that new content will again be a heavy grind. You grind, get mad power, slam through new contents, and grind said content to dust. This horrible cycle provides ever rising power, ever rising grinding intensity, and naturally ever rising premium cash shop QoL item demands.
This shit system and greedy company is what ruined the game. Those that do grind will be milked, and those that don't will be left behind because they get burned out trying to even access the latest content. Eventually this backfired to the company and casual players just start leaving one after another. It's to be expected right? If you cater to your cash cows then naturally only the cash cows will be left. Unfortunately the cash cows will not be sated only with the exponential power IMC can give them in-game. They also demand there be other players for them to beat in PvP so they can stroke their e-penis to it. And so after the casual players left, the cash cows follow shortly after. This is when they start doing the great rebalancing in 2018.
But of course, IMC is a profit based company and profit based company is required by law to be stupid. So instead of flattening off the late game curve to balance the cash cow and casual player population, *they cut off the early game curve instead* to make it seems like the climb to late game is not going to burn casual players out. It doesn't. Their reasoning was that "if casual players get burned out trying to reach the latest content, then we should cut off the old content so they can invest their time more trying to grind our latest content instead of enjoying our streamlined early contents" which couldn't be more wrong.
This is how we arrive to the present day with obsolete mechanics, boost items, and multiple classes shoved down your throat from the get go. IMC think that by cutting off the early game and just giving it to the players, it would expedite their conversion into long term cash cows. It doesn't. All it does is make the game a long ass non-streamlined tutorial until level 200, which is not enjoyable, with the actual game only starting at level 201 and the only thing left in the game is to grind, which is also not enjoyable.
Damn. I was looking forward to this one too…
I was do disapointed by the new rushy/skip maps leveling passing, and i remember playing this game on release :(
It never was a good Mmorpg. As it launched, it had multiple issues which with time got even worse. Poor performance, shit endgame, shit journey to the endgame (following theme park linear single path killing boring mindless easy kill mobs over and over again). Boring gameplay.
@@Theydas You clearly wasn't a launch player then. Sure the rubber banding and channel crashing were bad, but there were no endgame yet. IMC only made the shitty endgame into endless grind raids after level 200. Before that it was fun dailies with randos even if the classes were poorly balanced (it was Tree of Cleric for a year). Which part of the journey was linear? You literally were given 5 areas available to you at once with no set order of clearing them. If you don't know, don't speak.
The number of MMO's that farm cash from no-lifers too afraid to get a real drug addiction (or unaware of the parallel) is mind-blowing.
The exp cards were always there. It was a “key” to leveling. It’s best to save the exp cards and use each tier at a specific time. Mainly to avoid certain level ranges that were difficult to level at. You normally gained 5-10 levels when you used 500+ exp cards at once.
i'll be honest with this one, because tree of savior is one of the games i love the most
i waited for it since it was announced as "project R1" and was heavily advertised as "ragnarok's spiritual successor", and RO being, too, one of the games i love, i was SO excited for this
i played on CBT, the game had it's day 1 problems (bugs, connection issues etc) but i loved it, i took it slowly and got i immersed in the game's storyline, visuals, bgm and gameplay
but the game was sooo mistreated by it's own company that ppl just gave it up and quit, it was really sad
right now the game is still fun (for me, i still like the gameplay), but it's not newbie friendly
It is trash
I couldn't do it anymore after the first class system rework that was supposed to save the game by making it more approachable. It didn't actually bring in any new players and just killed the depth of the class system forever - oh, and it completely ruined my favorite class, Corsair, by removing its unique looting mechanics that defined the class. Every class just felt boring and generic after that.
ToS got a bunch of launch hype from former RO players, and then 90% of those players left when they realized it's nothing like RO outside of the visuals and music.
@@KyokujiFGC I was one of those victims. finally new spiritual successor to RO! Grind and shit... after 30mins and I was done. It smelled more like those cheap Chinese MMO's that want to suck to daily bores and encourages you to use cash shop. Shame since game looks so pretty.
I'm once the same with you, waiting for spiritual sucessor of RO.
When the game was out, I played about 5 days in, and realized it's not the spiritual successor of RO.
Where in the classic RO, the game design was more wild and intuitive, in TOS, it feels pragmatized.
Let's talk about the monster in RO and TOS.
For example, in RO, level 30 enemy, let's name it A have battle power 30 which is just right for level 30 player. But there also exist level 30 enemy called B that have battle power of 60, which is a high threat even for higher levelled players, and they wander the low level area.
You see, no recent MMO design are like the above anymore. Recent design including TOS are more formula based approach. In TOS, lvl 50 mobs behave like most other level 50 mobs, such that I ever bother learning what monster I'm facing, I just see the level and grind away. None of the monster was impactful or something to remember because of the formula approach design. It lacks "human touch" to it. Kudo to the art team, but sadly all those monster asset are forgettable due to the gameplay.
I realized this, and I'm glad I quit the game early.
to quote my other comment:
"
I feel like they changed how the game is designed midway during the development, from the original ideas, towards more template like MMO, probably from hiring newly grads students with FAKE 4.0 GPA in game design.
You can see vestiges of what the game supposed to be in many of the early maps.
Many unused spaces, many paths that lead to dead-ends, Removed NPC that are bugging out, Jumping platforms that is now forever blocked, vestige of puzzle but now with no one able to progressor trigger it.
Everything removed, to make it linear, and everpowercreeping design.
I'm not surprised if the original team was fired midway and replaced.
"
Wow, Halo looks way different than what I remember!
Still has the same funky music that belongs on a nightclub though
@@augustoch.7341 this comment is depressing
@@celticogre8360 dont be rude. I thought it was kind of adorable
Looks like you can sprint now
if i was an art designer on this game i would be furious. This game looks incredible and way better than the mechanics it is tied to.
As a huge fan of Ragnarok Online, Tree of Savior was a punch to the gut.
and people still call it spiritual succesor of ragnarok online 1, but had nothing even similar to RO 1 lol
@@v44n7 the creator of RO made ToS so thats why
It failed because of funding
Oh man Tree of Savior. This game was absolutely hilarious early on - the first public beta test had 10% exp rate - we would spend a whole day farming the level 40 zones at level 25-30 just to get further, most people quit before even getting their 3rd circle, and the few dedicated ones who got to 4th could be counted on one hand. Second beta, we figured out you could enter commands in chat to send oversized bagels in world chat, but also complete quests over and over (you could get infinite skill points in all classes on one character by repeating the advancement quests).
Then it launched, and was pretty good, but still had some big issues. Performance was awful, you'd commonly see it drop to 2fps when you had a Wizard in your group casting flashy stuff, and running 2-3 of them was meta. Meta quickly boiled down to few overperforming classes (Hahaman, CryoKino and Elementalists, and SorcNecro for afk farming when sleeping), but was surprisingly diverse and forgiving enough to see every class pop up here and there (even the worst classes like Rodelero and Hunter ended up having players who completely dominated with them). The PvP content divided community and caused many to quit, and then the PvE content was too little too late.
The visuals and audio are phenomenal, class system was fantastic and had tons of potential, it's a shame it died.
this kind of game would be awesome to play in beta or in its start, its sad that I missed it
Class balance is what killed it for me, they had awesome swordsman classes but they were all useless in the end game.
You could go 2-3 wizard routes, 1-2 archer routes or plague doctor.
They fixed most of it but now its too late =/
What sucks is that they totally gutted the class system in order to "balance" it, but the game arguably became less balanced than it ever was before. They narrowed the relevant endgame content/progression grind down so much that if you bother to use a build that isn't specialized for that content your character basically does nothing, so 90% of people started using the same 3 builds. Instead of having interesting freeform character building with imbalanced results, you get rigid dull character building with even more imbalanced results. Amazing.
The exp rate was fine early on, now it's way too easy.
Regarding the absolute crapton of classes available to players: It was never really like this. Back when the game launched in 2016, every advancement class had tiers. For example: If you start as a Warrior, you could choose between Peltasta (shield) and Highlander (two-handed sword); Let's call them Rank 1 classes. The next time you can advance again, you can choose either Rank 1 classes again or Rank 2 classes (Barbarian or Hoplite), and the next advancement has you choosing between Rank 1, 2 and 3 classes, and so forth. Choosing the same class as before will advance its Circle from 1 to 2, then from 2 to 3. Each time you do so, you unlock more skills for that class and increase those skills' max level.
This was what made the game seem so complicated when it launched. You could have a Swordsman build that goes Highlander 3, or maybe Highlander 2 and Barbarian 1, or maybe Peltasta into Hoplite to get some actual damaging skills for leveling, then back to Peltasta 2 and then Rodelero for more tanking skills... There were a lot of choices for the player to go with, and each advanced class had their own unique niche. Of course, after some time, the meta gets solved and people naturally gravitate to the best builds.
Fast forward to 2018's class revamp. The new system essentially removes all those restrictions, allowing you to pick any advanced class at any point in time and also removing the Circle system altogether. That's why you see the mess at 8:23 now. The game just dumps every class at you now.
@@tiropat393 The entire class system was redesigned and rebalanced, and IIRC every old account got a class reset potion.
i played pre and pos revamp, the new class system is much easier and friendly(with the con that u have to read to see wich class u want), almost all classes can be played in any time because of the ballance they had and soo much more and better builds where made because f it....
I think the new class system is way better--a lot more friendly to new players. I remember trying to play it pre revamp cause I was immediately in love with the falconer class the moment I saw it on the website. However I hated how I had to be grind and lvl up only to advance to classes I didn't want to play. Played after the revamp and I really enjoyed the few months I spent on it. The whole game was such eye candy and I finally got to have my pet falcon and bounce around in my cute falconer outfit.
For all of it’s downfalls I still love going back to this game once in a while just for the art and music alone.
After watching the full video I'd have to say Josh, you're 100% correct on all of it's downfalls. The way I've enjoyed the game is just playing it casually and taking it in a little bit at a time, I wouldn't try to grind it out and rather kind of immerse and read quest text, etc. If you're new to the game or want to try it out just expect the worst but try to enjoy what it does well, and DO NOT spend any money on it because even if you get to end game you're not going to be competitive with any of the players who have spent thousands of hours. Just pick it up once in a while play it for a bit and put it down for a while. It's a good vacation game to poke at here and there when everything else is feeling a bit stale or when waiting for a new patch, etc. for your current favorite game.
Exactly THIS. The art, the feeling of combat and the soundtrack are everything.
Also returning gifts. They do gift a lot of end game shits that i have no idea whats for when i go back once in a while lol
@@desubysnusnu yea I boosted a Cleric to 460 last night with a return gift then realized I made a big mistake when I had no gear to support it 😆 but I did get a bunch of other end game stuff to use.
IIRC, at early patch, there's a hidden quest to unlock the hidden classes. This hidden quest required you to explore the world to find some clues or hint to unlock the hidden class. But....few patch later, they butcher it, so the player had easier access to these hidden classes.
I don't really have a horse in this race, but I'll say that ToS is a phenominal time waster for when you don't have a lot of thought to spare, it's my default "flip your sleep schedule back to normal" game.
The way to have fun is to make a scout and then take the bullet marker subclass. then you just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot some more until the sun goes down and you can finally go to bed.
I forget what level I made it to but it was I like 1/4 of the way to level cap. Either way, it's obviously not high brow stuff, but for a particular use case, it's fantastic.
(edit): Oh and you forgot to mention that when you level up you damage every enemy on screen so they all charge at you and give you a big dump of XP
11:23
This actually happened to me, sort of! I was stuck on FFX-being 9 years old and not understanding English yet- and a passing auqientance from my school offered me a save transfer from his PS2 Memory Card to mine, which I accepted.
Now, I already had an idea of how the game worked as I was reaching mid-to-late game but my entire Sphere Grid (That game's system of levelling, stat boosting & ability-aquisition) was a complete mess, so come the end of the Bikanel Desert and que the Guardian Wyrm Evrae, I simply could not progress any further, nor could I go backwards to grind as I had overwritten my saves.
So when I got this aquientance's save file I was still kind of overwhelmed with everything he had accomplished.
TL:DR it's a pain in the arse.
I was there from the beginning with this game. I went HARD into this game. I was foaming at the mouth to play this game from as soon as it was announced. At the end of the beta, I was the #7 top ranked player on the server. After the beta, I lead a successful guild. I was one of the best healers you could've grouped with. THIS GAME IS THE REASON I *GOT* A STEAM ACCOUNT! And you know what? Every. Single. Word. Of this. Review. Is true. All of it (well, except one detail I'll address at the end). As someone who put literally many thousands of hours into this game, I can DEFINITIVELY say that this review is SPOT ON. But you know what else? You didn't even play long enough to get the worst of it. Now, granted, I haven't played this game in over three years at this point, so I can't speak for what it's like today, but, at least at the time, the endgame content progression was *INSANELY* RNG dependent (and I imagine it probably still is). There is a FIENDISHLY complicated gear upgrading system that requires HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of hours and THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of re-rolls in order to accomplish. And the mechanics surrounding the nature of these re-rolls and the sorts of upgrades you want to get are DEVILISHLY complicated. In my guild's Discord server (which still exists), I have an entire channel dedicated JUST to a guide that I wrote up for explaining this ridiculous, convoluted mess. And, like... it's long... It's got charts, and graphs, and oodles and oodles of text. And you have to STUDY it. Like... A LOT. You need to do HOMEWORK to progress in this game. Tragically, many of the problems you discuss in this review (as well as that FUCKING RNG ichoring system) were not a thing in the beta. The beta was SO much better. Nothing was pay-to-win. Or pay-to-anything, really. Mobs and bosses weren't made of wet paper. There was no automatic dungeon queue nonsense (I honestly feel like dungeon finders are the single worst thing that EVER happened to MMOs). The post-beta launch did everything in its power to ensure that players never needed to actually TALK to each other anymore, like, for instance, the aforementioned dungeon queue. One issue you didn't mention that drives me batshit about this game is the fact that every single map in the entire game consists of "room, hallway, room, hallway, room, hallway, room, hallway, room, hallway". Gone are the wide open, mob-packed spaces and interesting mazes of Ragnarok Online. And that one Steam reviewer was right about the Ragnarok Online thing. I *WAS* a diehard Ragnarok Online player, which is why I WANTED SO BADLY to love this game. And a part of me did. But the part of me that cries for this game's squandered potential, and the part of me that just got fed the hell up with its legion of glaring flaws, in the end, are the parts of me that won out. But I can't even go back to RO because the main servers are absolutely RIDDLED with bots that ruin the experience and the new Russian server that opened up on 4Game a couple years ago that isn't riddled with bots renders healers obsolete (I play a healer) because everyone just runs their own personal bot healer on there. Or at least that was the way it was when I last logged into it. I truly believe that Tree of Savior had and still has in its possession all of the necessary ingredients to be the greatest MMO ever made. But it's just... not... It's, like, literally the holy grail with a turd in the chalice.
PS: One thing I think you actually got wrong, though... if I remember correctly, that "4 players" thing when you were logging in from your lodge did not mean "4 players logged into the server", it meant "4 players currently on the SPECIFIC ZONE MAP that you'll be logging into". So there were 4 people in the starting zone, not online in totality.
This one hurts; because you can tell there was some heart to this game, before it all went to hell. I feel bad for those who worked so hard on the game, the players put a lot of time into the game, and those who were looking to get a new Ragnarok Online experience.
And for the 8,968 classes; not a one of them is a Spellsword. . . unforgivable.
I played almost 2k hours of this game at launch, my favorite part was the exploration system, that gave ranking and even statues in town to those who explored the game the most. Not sure if it is there tho. Also, the steam achievements were added after I stopped playing, so the percentage is low mostly bc it was added much later after the playerbase had left, but even so, it is disapointing what they did to my son.
tried this game out a few years ago and came to the same conclusion, which is a shame cause the visuals are top tier and i could see myself dumping hours if the player experience was better :(
Every time I see a game that has "too many" systems, it makes me feel like a game that got its features extended over the years it runs.
That those features originally got introduced one at a time with months or even years inbetween, and are now dunked at once at a new player.
Just wanted to say they added the Steam achievements about 1 year ago if I recall correctly, which is why the achievement percentage is absolutely abysmal.
Regardless though, the points do stand. I tried playing for the story and the text walls are absolutely awful (also the translations are not necessarily good and sometimes key elements are introduced out of nowhere leading to whatttttt moments).
Imagine a remaster of this game... with optimized tutorials etc, this would be incredible
I have still reminded the day I played musket cavalry using Schwartz Reiter's mounting, mustekteer's musket using and running shot, make my character ride - by musket shooting and it's so fun. It cannot do like this anymore from removing class star level and adding scout class, making archer class no mounting unless playing warrior or scout one.
Hi Josh i wanted to recommend a severely underrated mmo called Spiral Knights. I played it as a kid and even today i think it's a ton of fun. Would love to see it highlighted on the channel :)
I've heard of it, what's it like
@@IamaPERSON It's pretty unique in the mmo landscape. There are no classes or levels, your power and playstyle are entirely determined by your gear. You have 3 types of weapons: swords, guns and bombs, and you can have up to 4 weapon slots. Combat is simple, but engaging and quite challenging in the mid-late game.
@@madnessoverload7824 interesting
If someone were to make an MMO out of old topdown Zelda Games, Spiral Knights is what you'll get.
@@IamaPERSON It also has a seriously "pay us money" upgrade system where to actually progress through the game, you need higher tier equipment...but to get to that tier, you need three things at that tier. Weapon, Armor, and Shield. Three different things that take Heat, currency, and materials. (Heat and money drop from enemies, mats...well.) 3 star equipment is where you start to notice the pain, trying to get a 5 star item is hell.
Retired Veteran here.
Some stuff was wrong (4/100 at the start is only the player on the current map you log in NOT the server [EU should have 80-120 active players, I still write with some people] and the achievement System got implemented like 3 years after the launch hence most players never saw it e.g. I don't think I have that one despite over 10k hours xD)
But the general idea is right:
P2W Shop
Great music and Art
Overwhelming amount of upgrade systems
The first hours or first 330 levels or so are tutorial and got no challenge anymore, sadly
Combat is getting more thrilling once you reach close to the current max level and do party stuff
One thing is odd to me:
Considering you are playing games around 8 hours before reviewing you only showed footage even the freshest of noobs see during the first 3 hours or so and miss some of the really pretty maps haha
Im pretty sure it has more than 80-120 on eu. I mean even now this game still peaks at 2k people online in steam from time to time. I rarely play Tree of Savior nowadays and the game is really disappointing but i was still annoyed by the fact that he called this game "completely dead with 4 people online"
Would I enjoy the game if I were to go through it like it was single player? Is all the content doable solo and all the achievements obtainable like that? Also is it possible to go through the entire game solo without touching MTX or any P2W systems?
@@The88shrimp in theory yes, in practice you would need to interact with people and go ask some guild discord or forum because there are multiple power up system and class interaction that make or break a character. It's nigh impossible to brute force experimenting. Also several EU players still do all content without touching any TP stuff.
@@miavelvet it could be more, always hard to say considering bots / multis.
But you got point, it is actually one of the lesser dead games he showed so far. This video shows that you cannot take everything he says at face value which is fine for since I mostly watch him for entertainment
@@The88shrimp You could enjoy it.
One thing he does not show is that TOS has, while MOSTLY standard fetch / kill stuff, really good side stories in its quest lines imo good enough to just play the game for those stories and go through every map even if it lacks challenge during hundreds of levels
Except you restrain yourself by NOT using boost and even some quest rewards
I remember playing this when it first came out and exp cards were pretty much required to get through early game, but you were given so many you became overpowered. There weren't as many subclasses on launch, but there was still a hefty amount. I liked it as a game, but it got boring quickly.
The ONLY thing that makes me play ToS again after 7 years of not playing is the nostalgia factor.
Back then when I'm still at uni, I got quite a bad depression (when I think about it now, it wasn't that big of a problem, just my general stupidity that makes me think so), I played this with my brother and one of my friend. We play, eat, sleep when we tired, and when we heard one of us opened Tree of savior (the BGM was banging), all of us woke up simultaneously and began playing again. This cycle continues for good 2-3 weeks, and those weeks are when I feel the "most alive" even when I spend 99% of my time in the game.
One of my favorite class was Linker (remember when linker was still in the wizard tree? Yeah, good times). The sound effect when I use the Joint Penalty, and when I gather all the enemies linked with Hangman's knot is just chef's kiss.
Right now, the story quest is just waay too fast. I remember, getting to Fedimian took us around 1 week (lv 100). Now, I can get to lv 300 in just 3-4 days even when I go to work from morning to evening. It just takes away the fun. I'm still playing it tho
Edit: I just remembered one event back then. I played in Indonesian server, all 3 of us just arrived in Fedimian. I remember, we can only get 3 chance per day to do the dungeon (I forgot what it's called). When we finished all 3, we loved to just hang around the quest building, doing PVP, card battle, all those extra stuff. I don't know how, but at one point, almost everyone in that area start playing with us too. We wanted to create a guild, Fedimian Pirates (if you remember me, hello!) but the name had been taken by some random guy who we doesn't know (guild can only be founded by Templar and none of us were Templar back then), and it incurred a big wrath among my friends.
Nice video, you got alot of things right with just a few hours of playing.
fun fact: lv1 - lv460 are just the tutorial of this game.
BTW, that [number/100] is players on the map, not players in the game
If they ever make an MMO based on the Mana series, it needs to look like this
Now i want him to play Ragnarok Online...
“[Tree of savior] is 28GBs , that’s massive”
PSO2: *nervously sweating*
ESO: He can only see movement, right?
I really enjoyed playing this game when it first launched. Leveled up and unlocked Chronomancer as a class, which was so dang cool to play as... Now it's a very different game.
This game was actually a Spiritual Successor to Ragnarok Online when it first launched, you had a lot of maps, old style grinding leveling, unique weapons with effects, MvP like bosses, class quests, useful crafting and other things. Then it all went to trash because of greedy developer/publisher, started to impose restriction to players under the excuse of "stopping the bots" those who only affected actual players. And then they flooded the in game Store with end game gear, you could actually buy the best and latest items needed to do raids. New maps didn't drop anything, they were mostly sand bags that dropped a couple things when they dropped.
Also the leveling experience turned to garbage because they have so little people playing the game that they accelerated the leveling by a fk ton and they give you the gear for every level so you could get to end game and do nothing because raid groups were formed around the people still playing.
The only good point of ToS at this point is as Josh said, the Art of the game, Npc Illustrations class models, music is on point with what Ragnarok online had and classes are actually nice and fun to play and you have a lot of variety, to bad the game turned into a pay 2 win crapfest.
One thing to mention is Josh didn't even took any skills other than swrodsman's xDD, don't remember if they game tells you to get skills but you unlock different skills with each class you pick and then you have to choose were to allocate your points so it doesnt feel like an Auto attack spam only.
As a long-time veteran of this game who also eventually quit, I have to compliment on how accurately you managed to hit the nail on the head with ToS.
I had been playing ever since it's closed betas, and yes: very many completely new upgrade systems and mechanics overtook the majority of the older ones. It would turn itself on it's head every couple months with some new upgrade system, instead of working with what was already there. This game reinvented it's own wheels soooo many times over.
Those older systems were what made the experience far more immersive for me. Back when I started, we would have to stop mid-instance dungeon multiple times to place bonfires so the party can heal if there were no clerics. As slow as it was, I think I enjoyed the coziness that provided.
ah the good times, having a random party sitting at the bonfire chatting random stuff
THE BONFIRE, how could I forget it! That was one of the greatest feature of ToS in my opinion. Not because of the mechanic, but because how we chat with strangers in our party, getting new friends, and getting fired up before a boss-fight
Such a shame. By the looks of it, this game could be a successor to Ragnarok Online, but has fallen to greed and overt complexity. I think we could use a new Ragnarok Online, it had some interesting ideas I haven't seen repeated elsewhere. Like a dedicated merchant class or teleportation that was only available to a single class. Well, WoW kinda stole a couple of those oldschool ideas, but even they gave up on most of those long ago.
There would definitely be room in the market for this kind of game, but nobody seems to be interested in making it. Instead, we get the endless copies of generic fantasy mmo with your generic fantasy classes and the three cardinal roles of tank, healer, dps. An asymmetric MMO with classes that can do unique things, all wrapped in a more animeish top down look. I would play that.
Bit of a necro, but as someone who played this for a few months, there aren't actually that many classes or weird occupations in ToS - it's more like a build your own class system, where you pick a new class every couple levels to make a weird stitched together multi-class abomination. It was actually pretty cool, but also not very new player friendly since you cold totally fuck your build at 1st level by not taking an essential skill and not realise until endgame.
Looking up community builds on the wiki and seeing them come together as you added new classes to your character was really fun though. However, the end result was that there was still only like 5-10 optimal final builds that people actually played, with maybe a class or ability swapped out here and there.
I really loved the videos about this game during its beta stages. I still remember it biggest selling point neing the ability to combine each class with whatever other you wanted; making it one of the most free form class System I had ever seen in this genre.
This looks beautiful. It could have been a fantastic JRPG however it is dying now. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
I'd love to see Mabinogi featured in this series! I played it a lot throughout middle school, it definitely has its share of issues lol but it had some unique systems that I have not seen in any other MMO, not to mention it has one of the only MMO stories I actually became invested in. It'd be great to know your thoughts on how it holds up
I only tried Mabinogi for a bit, but I found its task-based levelling system really interesting, so I second this request!
yeah, the game is kinda janky and the monetization is... rough, but I see myself going back to it every few months for the past 16 or so years, because there really isn't any other game out there that scratches that itch.
I still go back every so often amd just fall in love again. Something about how the characters look, the music, juat the story. It all feels so fun. God I love how the newer skills all have a storyline to follow
@cutetinyzombie ay sure he can matey.
I recently started this game with my wife cause it seemed like it'd be a fun co-op experience. Same as you, it felt pretty neat at first with the music, art-style and controls. But then after the cosmetic thing ... my wife and I got this item that boosted us all the way to 460... After we did it we just kind of blankly stared at each other. I asked in chat what we do now that we're 460. Got recommended to just do the story quests. .... Imagine just going through all the episode quests just one-shotting everything you run into. It was so god-damn boring that we just started over without the boosts on new characters. What ended up happening was I didn't like one of the sub classes I chose and learned that I needed to figure out this stupid overcomplicated class reset system in order to change it. You're asked to pick a class without knowing if you'll like it, then you're punished for wanting to change your mind. It's such a 180 from expectations to reality. Super disappointing.
I played it on beta then for almost 900 hours and i must say: yep, had the potential to be one of the most amazing MMOs ever but the content draught and basically no end game except guild wars, it falls flat... But the "adventure" to the max lvl is pretty fun, if you like grinding (i mean, the good grind).
you could post this exact comment under a new world video lmao
Era bem daora a progressão de classe me lembro o quanto era demorado virar Shinobi (era sub classe do Warrior na época), e tinha a Earth Tower e as armas de Practonio, eu sempre sonhava com a Sarkmis e era super difícil crafta ela...
I love gaurds being attacked by onions. 🌰
as someone who played during beta and then forgot about the game until very recently... yeah most of the stuff you see now was added when the game became a flop this game actually had a good pace in its earlier stages
I remember playing it when it came out. And it was a fun couple of weeks, but it became boring, since nobody else was playing it with me. Sadge
Yesterday I was looking if you covered Tree of Savior on this series.I played alot since release on Stream, and watched while it becomes the mess of a game that it is now.
The game is fun casually. I'm going back to it every 6 months or so. You're right that the systems upon systems are overwhelming and off putting. Do not under any circumstances get involved with end game gear grinding. It's an absolute hell that will make your life miserable. If you want a game with a lot class variety, fluid combat, nice graphics and a breathtaking soundtrack, then you might as well try it out until the main story quest ends.
The way you explained this was my experience playing wow with a friend who played for years. He ran me through the early levels up to level 90-100 by following and him knowing and doing pretty much everything and by the time we were on "equal" footing I had no idea what we were doing and he expected me to know what to do.
The real WOW died after the patch Wrath of Lich King. WOW was the only true God in MMORPG till WLK :( You started it on the wrong time, the WOW now is shit as
@@simonliu2008 yeah I started on warlord's
The Halo infinite parts aged like milk
"Completely neglect pacing"
There it is. This is by far the biggest reason the game is bad.
Actually one of the things I loved about TOS while I was playing is that maps do have some quirks in them. Some has bosses, hidden quests, puzzles, and time specific events.
This reminded me so much of the first Final Fantasy Tactics. They're both gorgeous, lots of classes, only difference is FFT had an AMAZING storyline and (iirc) good tutorials.
It is so sad, I spent this entire video either overwhelmed with nostalgic awe as I saw the art, saddened by how badly they dropped this gorgeous ball or annoyed by that goddamn small black line that pops up randomly. Thought it was a smudge.
Tactics had a tutorial, but it was an optional option on the start menu so most players probably didn't use it. The thing is, the game was intuitive so you didn't need to.
Oh, the memories of this game and the salt levels that never dropped from OBT. It was a nice game to play, and I loved the characters. Hard not to since that was the time when everyone had like 5 characters, so you do too. The predatory practices started from the moment we knew who the publisher was. The bad user experience and balancing issues started from day 1 when the devs had to play catch up all the way from OBT. Still, I adored my time with the game. New zones would already be implemented weeks to months before they were meant to be utilised, so it's always a nice bonus when you find a new zone's boss just hidden away out of sight of players who don't jump around and explore.
Fun side note: Klaipėda, Šiauliai, Gytis are places in Lithuania, and the names in the tutoral level, like Titas, Laimonas, Srautas, Solilunis, are common Lithuanian names.
Also someone in Google Translate has a grudge against Šiauliai, because in GT it translates to "shit" lol
I remember playing this when it launched. There are TONS of people. There are players in every map. You can easily find someone with the same quest as you so you party with them finish the quest quickly. Then I reached 115. Got bored because how hard it is to grind exp and I was not yet near the max level mind you so I tried doing dungeon raids(?) with a party. All we did was clear mobs, clear mobs, and clear mobs. I was a Barbarian back then so I don’t have much mobbing power.
The game is beautiful but that’s all it is. Form over substance.
I really loved to see a system where u need tanks, healers and dps, not just a bunch of dps with a high end gear that can tank everything and deal the damage cap with every single hit, the game doesn't feel inmersive at low levels, ToS just want u to ignore the first 400 levels to start the game, not some much time ago they gift every player, a jump to max level, with high end gear, it just suck to do that, if u feel overwhelmed at low levels, imagine being level 450 with everything unlocked right away, i been playing since the release but stoped playing like 1 year ago, and i feel overwhelmed at some point i just deleted the character to uninstall, i hope some company buy this game and make relaunch with good development i friking love this game a lot, and its make me sad that its not even a game anymore
Tree of Savior is such a tragic case. It also SOLVED the problem with RNG ultra-grinds for rare items, but simultaneously fucked it up.
Rare drops (such as cosmetics like a mask with some stats) are based on kill count. If it's a 1/50k drop on a specific map/enemy, it will automatically drop after 50k kills of that. It can still drop sooner, with your chances increasing each kill, but it's a guaranteed metric. How they fucked that up is that it can drop for anyone on the map, so if you hit 49,999 kills, and someone comes in and gets the 50,000th kill, they get the drop.
You would have to pay me to play halo. Can't stand that series.
Well, do you sit down while playing video games? That might solve your problem.😂
All I think these days when I see outfits like at 11:28 is "ya know how long it would take her to get dressed every morning" XD
"You have lost 95% of your players in the first 3 hours"
I'd have left in the first moment after seeing the cash shop. Any game with one of those is one not worth playing.
I have watched a number of these videos on the Worst MMO - I admit not all but I am working my way through. What I am really interested in is a similar series highlighting the best MMO's ever. I'm old. I played MMO's from the minute they existed and I have a clear winner imo on what is the best MMO ever. That, of course, is subjective and I would need to clarify what the parameters are, for me, as an individual, that makes that MMO my number 1 choice. It is said that humans measure their existence by the degree of suffering we endure and that if we don't suffer we will find something to suffer. I wonder if we could define our MMO existence by the degree of pleasure we derive from playing instead?
God bless the Devs that put their love and extra time into the recent new classes/system reworks with the recent update. The New PvP system finally has balance mode on where gears don't matter anymore.
No pvp player wants a game where their gear doesn't matter fyi
@@OhhiBukai Ironic you say that since I have been an active guild wars 1 player for 15 years. I play daily and let me tell you about how bots own PvP and the irrelevant gearing is a part of that being such an issue.
@@jonathansoko5368 Gw2 and lost ark also
@@OhhiBukai sigh. Nevermind. Y'all should join a missing the point guild but hey alright.
I really wanted to love this game, and played a lot when it first came out, but when the game launched there was no way to respec character builds... so every balance pass that broke a build meant you got to re-grind all your levels again with a new characters or just play a now-gimped character that you couldn't fix. And the devs saw no problem with expecting people to completely start over every time they changed anything. Given how many classes and skill combos exist, the potential for repeatedly having your character ruined and told "Too bad, just start a new one and do the grind again" was miserable.
I figured if the devs were really so stupid, there was no long-term hope for the game and quit while I was ahead.
I had so much fun with this game when it launched, the gameplay as a Wizard was so good, since level 1.
I droped when I was 99 whitout exp cards and people where talking in the forums that they used them cards later than me, in level 110, or 100 I don't remember. And leveling up was feeling barely impossible for me.
Anyway, now I understand why I wasn't into grinding in this game even with the fun gameplay, because i didn't connected with the world and the story.
I remember when this came out, and back then I wasn't really well-versed on how mmos worked. Just had the rough idea that there's a pretty linear flow to leveling.
However, back then, you'd have to save-up these exp cards, which I don't think the game told you so, and to use them at certain level-points to breakthrough the experience ceiling.
But at the same time, you could use these exp cards in advance, and foolish me, did so and wasted like big time in one of those level-plateaus.
I remember really wanting to like this game but being teleported to the quest turn-ins constantly had me very confused about where anything was, and the cash shop being obnoxious. At some point I left the main story quest to try and find my class leader for some kind of upgrade quest and became permanently lost in a city, getting turned around by conflicting npc directions expecting you to know all the slang and landmarks already. It was an alright pinyata loot simulator.
this is one of the games where i can say " this shouldnt be a mmo this shouldve been a single player game"
if this wouldve been desinged as a single player game all the art and base desing wouldve gone better
I know you review games as they currently are and not at launch, but a thing to note is TOS actually got progressively worse as time went on. They made the combat easier, added more P2W features, More ways to spend money, made the monsters & bosses easier to kill, all but ruined the need for grouping on 99% of the game, added the teleport to quest locations thing, and many other various game destroying features as time went on. The game had many issues at launch that it never recovered from so the solution IMC came up with was to make the game easier, constantly give out EXP, Weapon, and character progression boosts every time a player tries to step away from the game or when a new person joins there is some temporary mechanic to help you level fast and feel OP in order to try to keep you playing. Tree of Savior definitely wasn't amazing at launch, but now it's just been changed to facilitate getting money from people as fast as possible so it can continue to exist.
They did not add the teleport to quest function. That was in the game since at least launch. Maybe beta, but I can't remember if it was in the beta.
Imagine my shock.
I played Tree of Savior about 2 years ago, and enjoyed it as something to mindless run around kill things and have some fun. Was it a memorable game? Not particularly, as I can't even remember any story parts of it. But was fun for the time I put in.
A note on the Steam achievement part; I am guess they added those more recently, as I don't have any achievements and played for 46 hours. Which then makes sense why only 4.4% had the costume achievement.
**in Guru Larry voice**
_Halo, you!_
This is/was a pretty cash displacement vehicle!
I used to play this game religiously for the first year it came out. Like you mentioned the art and aesthetics is so unique compare to other MMOs. But the company decisions slowly destroyed this game.
Looking forward to this! Tried this game so many times hoping it was a little more like something it's not.... curious about your findings!
god the halo jokes din't age well....
They need to do a ff14 realm reborn on this, bring the class list down to 7-10 classes an rework the skills to make them feel unique to play. remove booster items so it does make early game feel empty.the art style is amazing it just needs a story and memorable world to go with it, this just to start off.
Even if they made this a runescape type game, I would be happy
I had two problems with this game: 1.) Trying to actually get it running on my computer (not due to hardware specifications) and 2.) The gameplay loop wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Beautiful looking and sounding game otherwise, just not particularly fun to play.
My god, 3:35 the music is BEAUTIFUL
9:18 i actually like the "Insert" to sit and recover. It reminds me of old Tales of Pirates game
Wow, this game really looks beautiful! The comparison with Breath of Fire also fits really well...
*nostalgia kicking in*
❤️
I was a Ragnarok Online fan back in the day so I actually enjoyed ToS a few years ago. Tried to log in recently and it appears they have overhauled all my classes mechanics and gave me some token that levels me up to lvl450? I was lvl 100. Was absolutely overwhelming with UI notifications and new shit going on and feature creep
Like a lot of recent games, a major contributor to ToS's failure are CBT players. They "perfect" the game progression wise ahead of everybody else and devs think everything is a-ok. CBT feed back was the circles/job system was fine as it is. But come global opening, it overwhelmed everyone with too many choices that cannot be undone. It took so long for a reset to become available that most players just moved on to different games. It's a shame because game had so much potential from story to pvp/gvg.
I agree with your overall verdict on the game, but you need to slow down and fact check stuff before you put these up.
The 0/100 and 4/100 population stats were for the tutorial level. Not the whole game.
You were not given booster items at the start. You get +EXP items as a quest reward for every quest in the game. It is and has always been balanced with that in mind. The difficulty scaling / pacing has always been bad.
You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the subclass system, since you get three subclasses, not one.
The Luchador class is not locked behind a pay package. No class is. That package is for Luchador-themed items.
"I can just tank the lasers and stab her to death" While we watch you nearly die after getting hit twice.
this game has many many changes to their system even class guide cant keep up with their changes to class and new endgame system. the games get better after this year recently however monitezation still bad, but theres almost no bot(you cant farm silver in field anymore) and less bug than before. new classess, content and rework almost come every month now. the flaws is how they implement new currency boost ticket as mandatory just like you buy subcription. its make the game predatory instead, anything that i dont mention is good.
pvp is bad, the gxg they changed numbers because they can't keep up fps with older gxg guild members at the same map, no balacing like at all, if its was really good, probable would have better numbers, wich is not, dead game
@@Horus0147 pvp almost has no existent in that game and the server always peace, just like basingse in avatar
aside from minor things like systems either not being there entirely or diffrent completely this video describes the feeling of dissapointment so early on is very fitting.
as someone who played the game way back when as it came out in the west having followed content creators who played the korean version of the game before it was a thing in the west.
many many thousand hours of playtime and good times later watching the game just fall apart over the years was very heartbreaking to see when it had such potential to begin with.
things that made the game good were either changed or removed alltogether and eventually one change was one change to many and I as many others too, left the game for good.
sometimes I wish I could go back to the earlier days of ToS like only a year or two into the game kinda deal. you win some you lose some, game truly was a gem and it's a right shame what became of it. maybe next time.
I could go on for days and talk about the game and my feelings for it but who has the time for that.
Posting my thoughts on ToS before I watch this video:
My primary gripe, and one I hope gets mentioned, is that the game had somewhat adequate pacing for the first 100ish levels. Like I honestly don't have any major complaint about that other than some areas having way too much walking where nothing happens.
The core problem I encountered, and the one that made me quit, is that you get 3 classes in the game. You pick your first, invest skill points into it for IIRC 120 levels, and then at 121 you pick another class.
This renders the game miserable because at 120, you've beefed up a single skill to its maximum and it's got like 1000-1500 base damage or whatever, but at 121 you have to invest into a new class all with base level skills that do like 5-10 damage. And even if you waste another 120 levels of grind maxing that next skill out, it's still going to be at best only ON PAR with your main skill from your first class. It's not like you can cast multiple skills at once, meaning there's functionally no purpose whatsoever in investing in multiple offensive skills.
So your power, effectively, is hard capped at level 120, but enemy HP is exponentially growing as if under the expectation you could keep shoving infinite skill points into your primary skill from your first class.
So the end result is, at level 120 you legit should be one shotting virtually everything. At level 200 everything is tanky beyond reasonable belief because you, by design, have been stagnant in player power for over 100 levels. And the level cap was 360 I think (somewhere in the 300s).
There was no point to the grind, leveling made the game progressively worse while offering no power. The game fell to complete shit after 120 because of the multiclass system. To say nothing of the miserable, timegated slog that are dungeon runs that could only slightly alleviate that power gap, and that shit cost real money if you actually wanted to powerfarm it.
Ugh. Pretty game with good music pissed away on a meaningless grind.
A really pretty disappointment. I tried it back when it launched on Steam, I gave up after 7 hours when I realized that a quest was essentially "grind the very limited number of enemies in this particular area, and hope that farming the uncommon drop doesn't take too long."
This is a game I WANTED to like and WANTED to sink time into, but alas, I could not bring myself to do so
Played that game for a bit. Saw two decked out players and asked them what they had to do to get their items. They basically said cash shop. I uninstalled.
i kinda wanna read the text dump at the end but my glasses need replaced and my screen is too small...bummer. I love the channel dude keep up the amazing work.
Sooooooooooooo here's the thing. I wanted to love this game. I got to around level 100 or something and just couldn't keep going.
I personally love magic classes and anything that lets me summon shit is easily a game I feel like I would greatly enjoy.
HOWEVER the Bokor class and the Sorcerer class and the Necromancer class all continuously get nerfed into the floor or completely changed.
All the cards the Sorcerer has access to as summons are crap tier with only 2 or 3 that are viable.
The Bokor requires a paid resource to summon (one of their worse changes to the class, the item is called a zombie capsule).
The Necromancer is the best of the 3 classes since it doesn't require any resource outside of corpse parts you can get from using a skill called gather corpse similar to dievbyrbs can use an attack to gather wood to make it's sculptures.
So personally the game is ok, but the devs behind balancing the game are so freaking obsessed with nerfing summon classes into the floor that if you enjoy that kind of gameplay style, this game isn't for you.
I remember being part of the mod community back when it lanched (Fiote here!). It was an awesome game but REALLY flawed on its security (cxAnywhere, anyone?). It still holds a place in my heart, but it looks SO bad now.
Love the art style it's genius. Deserves to be matched with a better game.
I tried a bit then I uninstall the game. The only thing I keep is the music folder, so I can listen to it while playing other games. I also saved it to my phone. The music is so good!
"Every level is meaningless" Damn the game sure changed a lot, I remember how hard it was to get a single level when the game came out, I remember having to save all the xp cards and doing 100% exploration just to get a few more
They added Moroth Embassy beginning where you simply do a little tutorial and get your character instantly to level 450. And after that you stop gaining exp unless you buy packages containing exp 32 booster and it takes forever to gain the next 20 levels. And you can't do quests since they have a level requirement. And you can't do raids because they added a "gear score" system that basically prevents you from doing anything unless you're level 470 and got access to endgame gear in every slot. This is so sad...
This game was so fun years ago! The class system was a breath of fresh air as well in that you could combine classes and make your own custom class by picking different progress paths. I had so much for for like 1 year before I quit due to getting confused with endgame.
I really watched it thru the end and I gotta say...this is a very detailed good review...makes me understand how it feels to play the game even though I haven't really played the game yet. Despite the negative review though, I'll still give the game a try since it kinda brings nostalgia because of it's art design...
have you given it a try? how was it?
3:14 I like how you listed virtually everything except for it's direct influence - Ragnarok Online
@3:30 this song makes me feel like I'm in an anime like jobless reincarnation