The Blunting of a Sports Car - How Marketing Thwarted the Triumph TR7
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- In spite of being the most successful TR-badged car, British Leyland's Triumph TR7 has never had the most positive of reputations. Beside the car's controversy, I believe that marketing played a big role in its image, swapping sporting character for everyday usability.
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For those who love the TR7 in racing guise, David Appleby Engineering are still building new TR7s using new old stock shells.and components.
As seen in Historic rallying......Chris Ingram drove one on the Roger Albert Clark Rally in November.....
and this season by Mark Higgins....who has won in the car.
Ed, I know these brochures are not your biggest draw, but as a former marketing exec, I appreciate the history of marketing materials.
I love the fade to black cover of this one.
Thank you as always my friend 🙂
The brochure you have is definitely 2nd generation. The orgiinal ones made no mention of the optional A/T, although a very few of those were produced as late-1976 models. I managed a Triumph dealership when these were new, and they did indeed sell like hot cakes. Almost every car that rolled off the transporter was already spoken-for. This was in the southern USA, and the car's very effective A/C was a huge selling point. In truth, the '75-6 cars weren't very good, but they were reasonably priced and looked quite modern, especially compared with the horrid rubber-bumper MGB. The second-generation cars with the 5-speed and updated brakes and drivetrain (from Rover) were a huge step up. Mind you, the cars had problems, but most of those came from dealers who did not precisely follow the pre-sale servicing routines. Head gaskets were the most common failing, leading to severe overheating and occasionally major engine damage. If you torqued the heads JUST the way BL told you, this problem was quite rare. As a dealer, we loved these cars: they were effective and easy to sell and the owners were quite taken with them. I took a demo on a 600 mile golfing holiday, and there was plenty of room in the boot for two sets of clubs and two largish duggel bags. The boot wasn't much bigger than an Alfetta GT, but it was more usable. In truth, we didn't have very many issues with the cars, and we managed to fix the ones that cropped up. I've always thought the dealer body was at least as responsible for the TR7s demise as BL and the on-going labor problems...but it's WAY too late to be pointing fingers!
Yes, as I say at the beginning, it's a later brochure.
I'm an American muscle car guy. Finally got to a point in my life where I have a garage and can take on a project. What I like is way overpriced so I wanted an old 5 speed car to drive on weekends. Found a TR7 which I didn't even know existed and did a full restoration. Absolutely love driving it and it gets so much attention.
The main problem with the TR7 was that it was meant to replace the Stag, TR6, Spitfire, GT6 and the MGB and Midget all quite different vehicles and in trying to appeal to all those customers it failed to fill any of their expectations. It was always intended to drop the Sprint engine in but in the event only about 60 were ever produced to homologate the car for rallying and the V8 was too late to the party to make a real impact. As for the styling as an apprentice mechanic I thought it looked stunning when the first one arrived at our dealership prior to launch in that lurid bright green and I still like the styling today.
Exactly the point I've made in a couple of videos. The development plans are so broad that there's no target they were singularly aiming for.
I was one of those kids of Ed’s dad’s age and it’s true, the TR7 was really striking on the roads. There was nothing else really like it. But the biggest thing for us of that age was the pop up headlights. It my sound laughable, but popups meant futuristic and super car and they made it very desirable to us.
I loved it then and still do. Such a shame that those lights were legislated out of existence.
I was a spectator on the RAC Rally in the 70’s, when it went on right through the night.
In the depths of a Northern England forest Service Stop at about 2am , during a very cold November , I got to speak to Tony Pond who was a works driver in the rally version of these.
I asked him how the car was performing.
Answer? “If I told you the truth I’d lose my job I think. Let’s just say…could be better.”
He was far from happy.
I remember reading a saying about TR7/V8's, and Tony Pond. It went something like.... up to a point almost anyone of reasonable driving ability could make an Escort go fast..; too make a TR7 go fast, you had to be a hero.
I have this very brochure! Picked up at the Motor Show in Birmingham NEC if memory serves, so more than likely 1978. I’ve a soft spot for the TR7. Like you Ed I’m ambivalent at times, but it was certainly bold. And relatively affordable. Isn’t it interesting how these old brochures concentrated on the technical and engineering aspects of cars. Even trying to find power outputs and the like these days demands perseverance. It’s all lifestyle and touch screens. It’s the one thing perhaps above all else that I’ve noticed and saddens me; the death of the enthusiast among the majority of the motoring public. Hence SUVs I suppose. I’ll await the backlash of ‘boring old fart’ comments.
I ogled Fiat X1/9s all through high school but when it came time to buy opted for a 1976 TR7 in British racing green in 1979 and had it 3 years. One can debate the fine points of what it was designed to be, what it should or could have been, the quality of the interior, dadada, but it was an absolute blast for a 20-something to drive around twisty mountain roads of New England and served me far better than X1/9 or MGs for extended travels. An extra 6 or 7 hp (supposedly) with headers didn’t hurt. Considering the alternatives and the $ in’79 I chose well.
As ever, when it comes to car reviews, driven and brochure, you are the man! This was a totally honest appraisal of a car I never really liked, just as i didn't like the wedge TVRS : I'm a curves man in all tings! Yet, as you say, it was a reliable jamjar and one that certainly stood out, and who with any with rallying coursing through their veins could ever forget the super exploits of Tony Pond in the rally version? I couldn't and can't, as it was part of the golden years of the sport for which I yearn in my increasing dotage!.
But along with the general mismanagement and strike-driven work force it failed to be a success, and you documentation of that was excellent. I will revisit the road test to refresh my memory orf your ever-enjoyable driving reviews full of enthusiasm, meticulous research, fun and high entertainment value.
I hope the trouble you mention at the start of the review was small and overcome quickly!
Thanks again for such professionalism and view pleasurable viewing! Rob
Thanks as always Rob, you're too kind :)
Thanks for the video. I loved the car when it was released but it was never enough. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Russell :)
The moment Triumph stopped using Italian designers, can you tell?
I would sooner have a mgbgt myself still looks good today
Yes, the designers started looking forwards instead of living in the past.
Remember that the TR6, possibly the best looking Triumph, wasn't styled by the Italians.
@@TwinCam I have to agree, the TR6 is my favourite TR and one of my favourite sports cars.
They did have a lot of Michaloti's influence from previous TR's though.
TR6 is a peach
Id still love one now - tartan upholstery and all
The TR7 was release into the British market shortly after I got my driving licence. Being a fan of the TR's 4 - 6 to say I was disappointed would be an understatement, I didn't like them then and I still don't like them now. My respect with the TR range was re-established with the release of the TR8 convertible with the Rover V8 pumping out about 140bhp. Aftermarket upgrades included replacing the awful rubber bumpers with body coloured mouldings and lowered rear suspension which gave the car a flatter less arse in the air appearance.
Great watch Ed. I somewhat think of the TR7 and X19 as sister cars when it comes to styling. Thanks again for your time and work.....
Thanks mate :)
@@TwinCam Well earned on your part.
I worked for a company who put the Rover V8 into the 5 speed models (a surprisingly straightforward conversation. This transformed the TR7 into the car it should have been, a Supercar slayer.
How would you say the V8 compares to the 16v version?
The 16v engines ,when driven hard, which was when they shined didn't last long before needing rebuilding.If driven softly were gutless . The V8 was happy at low speeds,as well as high. They were more reliable too & of course sounded better. Nearly every customer who tried a V8 put a deposit down for the conversation.
@@1969triumph ok mate, thanks for the insight. Always loved the look of the TR7 as a young boy 👍
Should have had the 3500 V8 from the beginning and better seats.
I built a Sprint TR7 and it was fairly quick, as were the TR8’s I also got to drive. The dive and squat under braking were horrendous though, as was high speed braking stability. After 2 years of fun I swapped the TR for a Staaaaag, then a new Golf GTi Mk1, which was faster & more fun than both of them.
I was a 16 yo trainee at a BL dealer in 1983. I don't remember any wow factor of the TR 7 ..or anything in there really
(I was already a car snobb😂) maybe the red MG metro and Maestro turbo. The talking Maestro was a memorable experience
I like your brochure reviews.
I like the car a lot and yes it looks good from the front and the profile, but there is something odd with the rear in both coupe and roadsters to me, esthetically speaking.
They drive very well indeed.
A good old BL Brochure vid, thanks Ed. Quite miss these videos, helped get me through lockdown.
Thanks mate :)
I remember kayaking down a river, the main road along side seemed endlessly loaded with truck loads of TR7s heading off to export. We wondered at them then, mind my idea of exotica was a morris minor that didn’t conk out regularly, even dared to dream of an allegro estate as a replacement, before my ever wise mother bought a VW!
They are very much what is known as a "Marmite Car" in my neck of the woods - you either like them or you don't in most cases. Although I did like them when I first saw one, my allegiance has vacillated over the years (and like your Dad, I saw them when they were new). I still like them now, but would I own one? I might be tempted to own a TR8 - a limited run end-of-production TR7 with the Rover 3.5 up front - but it would have to be a convertible....and manual.
They were never the evolution of the TR branding and to my way of thinking, should have been branded a Stag rather than a TR. The Stag was aimed at the chic and was a tourer rather than a sports car - just like the TR7. Certainly makes more sense than naming it one of the traditional sporting / racing division of the marque. However, add to that the fact the Stag had been removed - in shame - from the lucrative USA market and I can see why they went with TR in order to try and reclaim ground there....but to the rest of the world, it was like kicking sand in the face of someone who's already down. The TR5 and TR6 were both straight sixes and were very much driver's cars.....and now they throw a wheezy four-pot into the mix, make it "comfortable" and call it a TR? It didn't seem right - and I doubt many TR owners who owned the predecessors traded them in for a TR7.
Having driven a FHC, I considered it underpowered and with a tendency to act nose-heavy. Certainly the rear end was skittish and tended to shudder / skip in corners when pushed hard, although she did hang on. However, I get a better handling experience out of a 2500 saloon - both in ride comfort and when driving spiritedly - so why would I want a 2-door 2-seater version that isn't any less noisy?
I am impressed with the rallying prowess they showed and I'm sure it convinced a few TR owners that the TR7 wasn't such a bad egg, but for what they were aiming at, the TR8 convertible would have been the ticket from the outset in my opinion. She certainly had the looks when dressed up right - and nothing beats an open top drive to the sound of a burbling V8.....
All the best
TR8 Convertible is the car it should have always been & whilst I sorta agree about TR lineage, I totally disagree about your other suggestion...there's only one Triumph Stag!
@@islaws4589 - Having owned a Stag myself for 7 years so far, I would tend to agree with that sentiment. However, the TR moniker always stood for Triumph Roadster - a nod to its roots shall we say - thus having the TR badge on a fixed-head coupe just seems a bit on the nose for starters. The -7 did have a development of the engine that was based on half a Stag's V8 and still had some of the quirks that plagued the Stag - including the infamous internally-driven waterpump - so it does have a thing or two in common. I'm sure that it was a marketing ploy, rather than a slight to the TR name, that was behind the name the TR7 ended up with. Introducing it as a whole new model - say, calling it the Lynx - would have probably been a better idea...and certainly paved the way for what was to be the Lynx being an extension of that model. I still think its a shame that the Lynx was never produced - but I am more upset by the permanent shelving of the Triumph Fury - a gorgeous car that really deserved its day in the sun.
I have the original Speke model brochure, which came with the history file I got with my 1977 TR7 when I got it. I can confirm that the text, and indeed photos and diagrams, are exactly the same as this except for whatever the equivalent of photoshopping was in the 70s was with the logos on the photos.
The Lynx was what should have been the main TR7 model, rather than the awkward looking notch.
But … BL.
Imagine a Lynx Sprint !
Was the Lynx the intended replacement of the Stag?
@@mattw8332 Yep, think it was ... must look ar AROnline to double check. It was going to have the Rover V8 - that the Stag should have had ! It could have been a very accessible car if they put the Sprint engine in as an alternative to the V8. We can only dream. At least a prototype is on display in Gaydon. To me, it's everything the TR7 should have been !
I can't say I agree. I think the Lynx is an awful looking thing. The TR7 was striking at least, the Lynx is just lardy and awkward.
@@TwinCam Different strokes, then Ed ! To me, the hardtop TR7 is dreadfully awkward looking. Ok, the front looks great… but the back … The drophead ones look great - if the hardtop had a similar profile to the convertible, then, I’d be in the queue !!
a "sports car" without any reference to "sport" - a 2-seat family sedan
Thanks for a well put together documentary...All your arguments are concise and hold up up well.....My first car (early 1980's) was a toss up between the TR7 and a MG Midget.... The MG Won, frankly it looked and behaved more like a sports car.... Interestingly I took the nsurance out after I bought the car and discovered it was almost as much as the car !!!!! AND PEOPLE COMPLAIN NOW !!!!! Roger Pembrokeshire
Thanks Roger.
And of course people complain now. Just because it's happened before, doesn't mean it's not unjust.
'I probably am your Dad's age! Yes I remember as a kid looking at all the advertising of the TR7, I loved everything about it, until I test drove one! I was previously driving it's predecessor at the time, a150bhp TR6 Pi!!
One big step backwards when your a young petrol head!
Certainly that's the way it appeared to most.
Though I must say - my Dad was 4 years old when they launched, hardly able to test drive one during the car's life!
@@TwinCam I was age 12 when the TR7 was launched. On the walk to school I'd past the Jaguar, Rover, Triumph showroom. I managed to collect every car brochure this showroom had by one means or another!
It was about 10 years later I got to drive the car of my dreams (TR7)
Oh how I miss that airbrushed cutaway art!
maybe the plan was for the salesman to talk up how sporty the car is in person, and the brochure was for the potential buyer's wife to discourage her from vetoing the sale
I severely doubt it considering how many women bought them!
the TR7 really was a Marmite car. from its awkward looks and uninspiring drive to its 'bitsa' engineering there was nothing about the car that I liked. equally my school mate Roy was obsessed them. amusingly, a few years after finishing school I'd fallen in love with the X1/9 and quite separately Roy had bought one.
I wish the Lynx hadn't been cancelled. it had the potential to evolve into a quite pretty coupe
I had a friend who raced a TR7 in the US after racing a Spitfire. He had some BL backing, and they wanted him to move to their latest car. He told me that the Spitfire loved to be raced, but he had to change virtually everything on the TR7 to make it survive and competitive. He said he replaced everything Lucas on the car with better brands except the starter, and he carried 4 spare starters to races. He used all four at one race weekend. As soon as the convertible TR7 became available, he cut the top off his car for less drag and less top heavy, making it somewhat more competitive. He kept being promised the TR8 would be out "soon", year after year, and he could re-engine his TR7 when it did. I lost touch, and don't know if he ever did get a V-8.
The TR7 was largely viewed as a typical British sportscar in the US; undependable, poor electrics, fragile, poorly built, and rust prone. They pretty quickly disappeared from US roads.
It's always surprised me the tendency for American market British sports cars to all have severe electrical issues. Electrical problems just aren't seen in the UK.
Something awkward and bulky looking about it I always thought. The curved line indentation down the side didn't look right. I don't know what they were playing at. The sinking ship of Leyland.
Excellent video 👍
Thanks Mark :)
Thanks for a really good video. I think it was a stupid looking car, and did even back in the day!
I wonder if anyone evr put a Saab turbo engine in a TR7 😃
I expect so I've seen many things from Chevy V8s to Vauxhall Red Tops in Tr7s. I'm sure it would be fun how much power do they put out ?
Someone has probably tried, though I doubt they were successful. The Saab engines were thoroughly re-engineered to suit the backwards layout of their engine bays. I'd say that most people looking for performance simply fitted Rover V8s!
The TR7 was the only Triumph that was NOT a TR as TR stood for TRIUMPH ROADSTER something the TR7 clearly was not although the roadster edition did come along a little later. Still in my book still not a real TR.
Morris Ital looking wheel trims on some models
Indeed, most manufacturers share parts across their models.