The ugly truth about the Triumph TR7
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- Many people think the Triumph TR7 was too slow to be fun, terribly ugly, badly built, or all three. But actually it served its real purpose rather well, in difficult circumstances - and I think is pretty handsome and good to drive, especially in the right spec. Here's the story.
Recommended further reading:
www.aronline.co.uk/cars/trium...
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:45 What were they thinking?
01:49 Getting the Bullet
03:09 Thin end of the wedge
03:57 A striking look
06:17 Look, a strike
08:14 Driving: a Triumph
10:06 “A chassis in search of an engine”
12:47 End of the line
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/the-in...
License code: FXFY5RDVTGMLID0F
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Image credits
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Triumph TR2:
Alf van Beem, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Triumph TR6:
JoachimKohlerBremen, CC BY-SA 4.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Mike Peel (www.mikepeel.net)., CC BY-SA 4.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Austin Healey:
Riley from Christchurch, New Zealand, CC BY 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
MGA, MGB, Triumph TR3:
Excerpts from Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! © EVE Productions 1965, reproduced on fair use basis
VW-Porsche 914:
SG2012, CC BY 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Triumph Bullet and ADO-21 prototypes:
Image reproduced from www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-a... - original source not cited
MGB interior, Triumph Dolomite Sprint interior:
The Car Spy, CC BY 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Triumph TR7 Sprint rally car at Heritage Motor Centre
Mark Brown from Hampton, New Brunswick, Canada, CC BY-SA 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Triumph Dolomite Sprint:
Arpingstone, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Triumph TR8:
dave_7 from Lethbridge, Canada, CC BY-SA 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Documentary footage, reproduced on a transformative fair use basis:
TV Eye, Thames Television, Feb 1980
Nationwide, BBC Television, March 1978
British Transport Films: 
Авто/Мото
Just a few notes from a fellow who managed a US Triumph dealer when the 7 was current: 1) Any criticism of the car's styling misses the fact that it was VERY current in the 1970s, when wedges were everywhere (even in exotics). 2) The interior was vastly superior to any of the competition: it was spacious and comfortable and the A/C (a rare factory item in a 1970s sports car) worked splendidly. 3) The labor troubles just CRIPPLED sales: over the years 1977-79 we got about half as many cars as we could have sold. 4) Not nearly enough comment has been made about the huge differences between the later (1977-on) cars and the earlier ones. The 5 speed gearbox and improved brakes and suspension from the SD-1 absolutely transformed the car. 5) The engines weren't so bad as many have said, but they were VERY sensitive to maintenance/servicing. We found that, if you did the pre-delivery servicing properly and stressed to the customer the importance of continued maintenance (which really wasn't unusually rigorous or expensive), the units were quite reliable. If you neglected those items, the engines were awful! 6) By the time the drophead and the 8 came on the scene, it was too little and too late. The poor reputation (even when not really deserved) had severely reduced demand, and the market was indeed changing, and BL had only itself to blame for not having done a better job. Pity.
Thanks for this, that’s great insight and reinforces / adds to what I’d found (and in some cases remembered). Pretty much all the whole 1978 model year’s production was lost, which my chart showed but I perhaps understated in the voiceover; and yes, there were a _lot_ of improvements when production restarted in Canley. But the exchange rate turned increasingly unfavourable by then, as well as the reputational damage as you say.
@@GrandThriftAuto 1978 supply problems probably did more to kill the car in the USA than anything else. We didn't have any times when there were none, but went from 20-30 sales per month to 5-6, and people got tired of waiting. Then, when the 8 and the drophead came out, the waiting lists grew again, but the supply never came close to catching up to demand. Patience is not an American virtue...
@Rusty Turner. Thanks for sharing your info. I owned three MGs (1967 MGB that rusted away, 1974 Midget that I had in High School and a 1979 Midget that I bought new during my first year of college in 1980). I tried doing all the typical aftermarket stuff to that poor '79 Midget (took the cylinder head off and had it milled down to increase the compression ratio, headers, Free Flow Air Filter, punched out the guts of the Catalytic Convertor, and a Monza Exhaust). I created an unreliable, still-slow monster that I ended up ultimately trading for a new Capri RS with 5.0 and 4 Speed. In one of the last of my many trips to the BL dealer to attempt to right all the wrongs on that poor Midget, the Service Manager told me if I wanted the kind of performance I clearly wanted, I shouldn't be trying to get it out of an MG, but rather I should get a TR7 or better yet a TR8. I think he was right.
"Any criticism of the car's styling misses the fact that it was VERY current in the 1970s, when wedges were everywhere (even in exotics)."
I disagree that anyone who thinks this car is ugly today is simply "missing the fact" of wedge shaped cars generally. I was 18 when this was introduced, and I and my friends had already owned several British sports cars... me, several Sunbeam Alpines, a couple of TR-4's (still have one of these... CT507L), and an Austin Healy Sprite; my family and friends owned MGB's, a Midget. And I lusted after various wedge cars from Europe... Pantera, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and so on.
Point being, I was immersed in the sports car scene at an early age, and owned them, drove them, drew them on every available scrap of paper. I read everything about them, saw them in the races at Lime Rock and Watkins Glen, and raced them ourselves.
So we were QUITE aware of the styling options, and wedge cars, and conventional cars, too. Yet almost universally, we thought the TR7 was a clunky, unfortunate, atrociously fugly design. It was not and is not well proportioned, and did not evoke the clean balance and lines of other wedge cars, not in the least. Even back then it appeared an ignorant parody of them. "Current" as it may have been, it was a really bad interpretation of the wedge concept, and still stands out as a great example that trying to copy something one does not fully understand leads to a result that is worse than if you didn't even try.
@@proto57 perfect summary. Too short and tall for that style, whereas the TR6 was bang on for those proportions.
As a former owner of a brand new 1980 TR8, right out of the showroom I can tell you that, upgraded with the Rover 3.5 V8, these cars were wonderful. Comfortable, roomy, agile and quick with a lovely supple ride and laser accurate steering and perfectly adequate brakes. The TR7s had more Lucas electrical issues and build quality issues. I never had any problems except for an early run of glitchy solenoids. It was one of the best and most memorable cars I've ever owned and I still lust for one to this day.
Amazing what you can convince yourself of when getting nostalgic.
A BL exec bought the final TR8 off the assembly line and loaned it to me for a movie. The acceleration was startling. Despite the wedge aero, I found myself becoming airborne across high crowned intersections. One of the funnest cars I've ever driven, even compared to the pre production prototype Acura NSX, Honda gave me soon after that. The Triumph combined poise with power in the most sublime way and the top down experience harkened back to my father's TR3.
One of my parents neighbors had a British Racing Green with tan interior and top example.
She was the only divorcee in the neighborhood and purported to be quite promiscuous.
I remember seeing her wash it scantily clad in her driveway every Sunday much to the chagrin of the wives in the neighborhood because their husband's were usually out washing their cars or mowing the lawn.
I also remember seeing it leave the cul-de-sac quite frequently via a tow truck.
It burned oil like a battleship and what it didn't burn it leaked.
Electrical gremlins were rife and it rusted significantly within a few years.
At any temperature below 32°F it became difficult or impossible to start and any over 85°F it overheated.
She eventually traded it for a BMW 320i and drove BMW's exclusively for the rest of her life.
😂
This is a really informative and well produced video of the TR7, with great vintage footage and in-car camera work. I bought a new 1980 TR7 in the Persian Aqua color and it was my daily driver for 4 years. As a young architect I was in love with its progressive style at the time and drove it through all seasons, even snowy winters. My wife and I took numerous long distance trips throughout the US and never had a breakdown. I only sold it due to our growing family. A few years ago I searched for a TR8 and acquired VIN 408405, which is the last of the 69 cars destined for Canada. These are known as the 1982 models with CA in the VIN. My car was despatched on Oct. 20,1981, 2 weeks after Solihull closed. It was finalized with a skeleton crew of employees that pushed those last few cars out of the factory. I love the additional power of the V8 and have tweaked the engine to just above 200HP. It is a thrill to drive and a pleasure to work on. Thanks again for your special look back at the TR7 and its history.
Interesting. I wonder if it was the same TR8 Drophead the President of BL Canada loaned me for a TV show? It was silver, as I recall, and had a commemorative plaque on the dash attesting to it being the final chassis off the line.
A well produced video…. I bought my 1980 drop head in 1986. Soon afterwards the water pump started leaking at 33k miles. 3 years later it needed new outer sills and 4 inner and outer wheel arches. 2 years after that it had new metal let in at the suspension strut tops and rear bulkhead, which I discovered it needed after I converted it myself to better than factory TR8 specification. It embarrassed TVR V8’s back in the day. More smiles per mile and still going strong. Free road tax and ULEZ compliant at almost 43years old. 😊
Lance from the detectorists has made the TR7 “trendy”
I hardly watch television so I’d missed that - I’ve heard it’s a great show though so I shall have to go and watch it now 😊
The last show I enjoyed before I completely abandoned television.
The TR7 in it was a sweet touch.
I did wonder how he got his ex-wife and her mum to bingo, though.
@@GrandThriftAuto You won't be disappointed.
But the car was chosen very deliberately to suit Lance: what would a single, lonely, balding, middle-aged man with quirky hobbies choose to drive in a low-budget mid-life crisis? Far from making the car look cooler, it’s another nail in the car’s coffin! The poor old 7 will never be cool or sexy like its predecessors were but it’s still nice to see one on the show.
When my wife and I were courting, she bought this car for me (more or less) and it blew up several times. It routinely overheated, and it was $700 each time late in the 1970s. A glamorous nightmare, really. But what a woman! Still married 42 years later.
This is the second video I have seen by this Presenter.
It is well researched, and well presented by someone who has done his homework.
No superfluous ‘waffle’ or unnecessary content.
In conclusion, an excellent history of the TR7.
Here in the U.S., it was commonplace to replace the engines with Buick V6 units. Several friends had them, very enjoyable cars.
Excellent! So erudite & well put-together, thank you for these videos! :)
Thanks! 😁
Setright - what a legend! What an era: Bishop, Bulgin, Greene…
Yes indeed! I’ve got a shelf full of 70s and 80s Car, and read them often.
Back then I was modifying my car to super improve my cornering ability when a friend bought one. I took it around my back roads route and it did very well. When I missed a turn a little that usually bottom out my front suspension, the TR7 took it in stride. Had great wheel travel! It wasn't a drag racer which would be unusable on the route I use but it cornered on rough roads very well.
I bought new a TR7 in 1980. I was in my 20s and this car was a chick magnet. I loved it. The only issue I had was with the gas pedal cable. The firewall kept sawing it half. I always carried a spare and could change it myself on the side of the road. I wish we still had these small two seater convertibles with 5 speeds like the TR7. And as I was in my 20s with little money, the car was very affordable. I would buy a Miata but the current version without the pop up head lights just doesn't have that the same appeal. We just never get to see two Miata's passing each other popping up their head light in respect like we did with the TR7.
Thanks so much for that video - brought back so many memories of the TR7 drophead my father had back then when I was a kid... I still remember the thrill of being chauffeured around in such an exciting sports car (being used to the VW beetles of my grannies, where I lived, the TR7 was nothing less than that!), me enjoying one of the Smith&Kendon travel sweets, that always were to be found in centre console, while my father was smoking his John Player's No6... happy times 😊
Excellent! 😁
the TR7 actually manages to look good with the lights popped up which many don't
True. The lights are up in one of the drive-by shots in the video, but AGAIN I otherwise failed to film the pop-up headlamp thing. I really need to try harder 😉
Brilliantly researched and presented Martin. The time and effort you're putting in is to be applauded. I hope this video receives the recognition it deserves and has a certain former Wheeler Dealer questioning his viewpoint on these iconic cars. I could see you really enjoyed the drive as well, a cheeky grin appearing here and there says it all.
Excellent video, Martin. Your mix of driving footage, graphics and your "talking head" is really professional and attractive 👍🏻😃
Thank you Frank! 😊
I was a mere boy when the TR7 was launched. I couldn't have cared less about TR5's, IRS or tradition. TR7's came in bright colours, had pop up lights and Joanna Lumley drove one on TV as did my mate's (hot) Mum. When I eventually drove one in the late eighties I found in an unexciting yet pleasant and competent car. Had BL launched the TR8 in 1976 as a RHD UK and LHD European model it would have absolutely, unquestionably cleaned up and possibly put a premature end to TVR. A well executed TR8 conversion with a standard Rover V8 is a lovely drive. What a shame :-(
EXCELLENT presentation and information!!! Thank YOU!
I like them immensely - always have, from the early hardtops to the late TR8s. I remember Purdy’s from The New Avengers - Dinky also made a toy version, albeit in yellow, like her MGB. I very nearly bought a TR7 drop head many years ago - but close inspection revealed rather a lot of filler and rattle can paintwork……….pity that the ‘7’ never got the Dolly Sprint engine - I never understood why not. Great video as always - enjoyed the animation and Brummie accent at the start!
The Sprint engine had a terrible reliability record and massive warranty claims, plus it was due to be canned in 79/80. The 2000 'O' Series and the Rover V8 were the way to go.
Had two convertibles back in the day , loved them both.
Enjoyable, thoughtful and analytic. Thank you M.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Just discovered your channel. Enjoyed the video, thank you. Subscribed.
I'm a sixty year old Australian. When I was a lad British cars were still very common on our roads. I learned to drive in my Mum's Hillman Minx and my first car was a Morris 1100. Followed by two Austin 1800s, a Hillman Minx Series VI, and a Triumph 2500TC, so I'm not in any way down on British cars. In fact, given that the locally made Holdens held around 50% of the market in the 1950s it says something that so many British cars still managed to find homes here, and indeed, were assembled here. It does seem, however, that from, perhaps as early as the 1950s, the whole British car industry seemed determined to undermine itself. It's not as if there wasn't plenty of very good, forward-thinking engineering within the industry - my Morris 1100 being a good example. As someone who still has a long wishlist when it comes to British cars - and the Rover SD1 is very near the top of that list - there has always been a strong sense of "what could have been" with so many British cars. Even with our locally designed and manufactured Leyland cars, such as the P76. The cars were fundamentally good designs with huge potential, which then just seemed to fizzle. Or, like the Morris 1100, for example, left to soldier on with little to no development. I've pointed out to my children that if you watch British TV or films made prior to about 1980 you will see almost nothing but British made vehicles on the roads. I imagine that British people in the 1950s would have been shocked if you had told them that almost their entire motor vehicle industry would be extinct in about thirty years time. But then any 1950s Aussie would have told you that you were insane had you suggested that by the early 21st century there would be no more Holdens.
Thanks a lot for this thoughtful piece. I think there’s a great deal of truth in what you say.
My first car in 1983 was a yellow 1977 TR7 and I bought another in 1989 had to sell my second one towards a deposit on my first house ,broke my heart always had a soft spot for them and still love them today .
Great video , thank you Martin brought back some great memories .
A work college of mine had a early version of the TR7. It was British racing green and it had, at the time, a rare 5 speed box. I had a Doly at the time. The dolly was very harsh in comparison. I liked the car.
So when the Dolly was due for a change a few years later the convertible had just gone on sale in the UK. I wanted one. However, even thought the car was new to the market and I was offered a considerable discount I could not afford it. The alternative the salesman offered was a MGB. I said no thanks they are too old fashioned. Eventually I found a year old hard top with very little mileage. Had a glass sun roof added as art of the deal. I liked the car. The glass sun roof was large and when removed it was near enough for me to be open top.
Styling wise I do not like the rear pillar vents or the rear lights.
I still have an official (factory) workshop manual for a TR7. That has a subsection about the Sprint engined cars. I did not realise until now that some were actually produced. I had always thought tit was a proposal which never entered production.
I think the consensus is that they built 61 Sprints - the factory records are slightly ambiguous and some may have been recycled into other specs, so it's hard to be sure. Surprisingly, the Sprint has its own Wikipedia article, which gives more detail and cites a number of further references if you're interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR7_Sprint
@@GrandThriftAuto Thank you. The best versions for me were the T8s thunderign around the RAC rally. Totally different beast.
My girlfriend had a TR7 brand new; it was fun to drive but suffered from feeling cheap and poorly put together. I worked for Lucas and repaired the fuel injection systems on the 2500PI and the TR6 range as part of my job. The TR6 was streets ahead of the TR7 in just about every way that I can think of. (SHOCK HORROR! We also ran a fleet of Marina vans and they were really good; they did exactly what it said they would on the tin.) Such a shame that our car industry was destroyed by greed; we made some good 'uns.
Fair summary... the Speke plant closure was all part of rationalisation within Triumph... space became available at Canley with the termination of the big 2000 / 2500 saloons / estates and the Stags, together with their engines. The dropping of the Marina 4-speed gearbox for the Rover 5-speed was also a logical move.
Later when the whole Triumph operation was decided to be wound down and the Dolomites and Spitfires (and the remaining pushrod engines) terminated (together with the Canley factory itself) then assembly was shifted to Solihull for the final runout of the TR7. The big saloons were replaced with the Triumph-engined 6 cylinder versions of the Rover SD1.
Finally it had been decided that the sporting hatch / saloon market would be handled by MG versions of existing and forthcoming modern Austin models, and the "old duffer" Dolomite clientelle could buy a Triumph-badged Honda.
Excellent!
As a dyed in the wool MG nut, I bought a 5 speed convertible back in the day, (they looked quite good) which in the context of the day, was quite fast, comfortable, handled ok, and very roomy. I did 64,000 miles in it in one year as a "company car".On one occasion I drove in the company of an E type and Jensen Healey for a couple of hours, and very able to keep them all honest.........couldn't knock it at all😀
Mackenzie Crook owns the yellow TR7 from the Detectorists.
It’s serviced at a local garage near me in the Watford area. It appears on their forecourt every now and again.
Enjoyed that, thanks. Always an exciting spot in the 70s when I was young.
I really admire an effort put in your videos. I haven't heard about this particular car, it looks nice, thanks
Loved my Tr7 would love to get another one :)
Bought a 1977 4 speed TR7 back in 1980, still have it in the garage with a Speke bult 1977 5 speed, 4 speed a lovelly car, daily driver for 6/7 years. In passing, 4 speed DHC is around 100Kg lighter than a 5 speed DHC, the 4 speed 0-60 is 9.1 seconds, 5 speed DHC 0-60 is 10.7 seconds, Mainly down to the 4 speed only takes 1 gear change, the 5 speed takes 2 gear changes to hit 60 mph. In the early 70's we watched the prototypes on test at MIRA proving ground.
Odd but true story when the convertible was being developed. 2 guys went out in a prototype onto the dual carriageway next to the Canley plant, got up to 50 mph and the hood flew off. the bolts "holding" it were too small, and 2 of my fellow graduate trainees were sent out to look for it. This would have been between August 1977 and December if memory serves.
That’s a great story!
@@GrandThriftAuto Believe me, the idiocy I saw in only 6 months working at Browns Lane (the Jaguar assembly plant), Radford (the Jag engine plant) and Canley would fill a book, but nobody would believe it. It was chaos on an unimaginable scale. And that was before my Lancia Gamma delusion took hold.
@@GrandThriftAuto Ha, that's what happened to my brother in his 1967 Spitfire, motoring up the M6 heading to Scotland, in the middle of the night and raining, the top flew off somewhere in Cumbria.
That, my friend, is a perfect British car story.
As an owner of an absurdly bad produced 1966 BMC Mini, nothing amazes me! Even the front screen leaked in water in the corners, as well as from many other places! But I loved the look of the TR4 and 5, and also the Ghia designed TR6. But Luckily, it sems, I never owned one!! The Mini became my one and only ever English car (I bought a new BMW 2002 in 1970)!!
Bought one brand new in 1978. My first new car and as an 18 year old I found it very sporty compared to what was being produced at the time. As my only car and in canada it worked quite well Summer and winter.
Nice video, it pleases me greatly that you mentioned Saab and the fact the TR7 was the best selling TR model. 👍
FWIW, a bit a ramble as to why I chose the SD1 over the TR8. But first, enjoyed your presentation. British Car Industry history, is very underreported here in America. Your work and Small Car guy, has been a welcome eye opening experience to the 70's labor issues, design and management. So on to my contribution to the British coffers of 1981. As a recent graduate in aviation, I was in the market to upscale from my 1972 240z and found myself spending a lot of time at dealerships. Looking back they seemed to be arranged much like entrée's at a buffet line, and dealerships were just car cafeterias. The 1981 year models of personal luxury offerings were mostly "warmed up leftover" until I got to British Leyland. IN fact the Pacific northwest had a dealership in Tacoma, and Seattle. My budget was between the XJS and the TR8, so I went home with a deeply discounted 3500 (SD1) 5 speed. The TR drew my eye several times and can only say, I was puzzled. My gut feeling was no potential, a car guy , from a car family, with dealership dads: one a bodyman, and one a front end alignment guy, I spent my youth in back, and wauder to the showroom when new models arrived since the early 70's, not to mention playing in them while waiting for bodywork. Crashed cars in those days in Florida seemed heaven to me. Back to the TR, my gut feeling was the build of the TR just was not convincing even though not one distraction of beauty; layout and sheet metal I could find. In a word did not present as "solid". Which I've looked over the years for a TR, same issues, not into structure repairs, motors, electrics, interior all ok projects, but no bodywork. Alas my Rover was totaled by a drunk driver 18 months later and I used the funds to re-fresh my 1972 240Z which I drove for another 15 years.
This is such a well produced episode. Your assessment of TR7 is so on spot! Well done! Your channel has become my favorite automobile channel in youtube. Thank you.. From a. Ex-TR7 convertible owner from Japan.
Aw, thank you! 😊😊😊
@@GrandThriftAuto You are welcome! Please keep up the great job! Your videos are excellent!
Had a `64 (in `68) TR-4 had a `72 MGB (in `82) both were dear loved.
When I drove a convertible TR 7 the whole scuttle and dash shook from side to side unbelievable 😮
Yes similar to the SAAB convertibles.
The car in your thumbnail was just like the one I had.
I loved it.
Had two convertibles , loved both .
Best review of a Tr7 I have seen ,fair and honest ,most just write them off as a sports Marina or Triumph saloon . Had two over the years an early yellow hardtop that I bought very cheaply off a elderly neighbour ,that was mint ,but the electrics let it down . I have recently sold the droptop that I bought as a hillclimb car that had come back from the states ,which was one of the last 4 cylinders built . Would have kept it but in my mid 70s I was getting a bit stiff for a sports car .Reliability was great and like the presenter said it handled with a good 5 speed gearbox . I usually drive cars with big engines and do my own maintenance as a retired mechanic ,so was pleasantly surprised after all the rubbish written about the old TR ,much easier & cheaper to keep on the road than a mates TR 6 with fuel injection ,but for some reason the TR 7 seems cheaply made with poor finish & thrown together ,the doors catches were always loose ,small leaks from the "newish" roof and the usual rattle or knock from the steering column ?. And don"t forget the brakes that should be on a go - kart & not a car -- - but after saying all that the mechanics were great ,never used any oil or fluids .Sold it on eBay ,with 4000 views and the young lad who bought it after a test drive into the Derbyshire lanes nearby ,bought it on the spot .I have another Rover P6 now which is also a rust free clean car from the Channel Islands , a much better car than the SD 1 I had previous . Happy Motoring ! .
Cool vid. Always liked the TR7.
When they first came out I thought they looked like a spaceship.
Excellent video again Martin and cover many areas not mentioned in other videos or articles.
Thanks Gentil!
Great video again. I agree with Harris Mann. The cleaner US bumpers look much better at the front but they have over riders at the back that could be better. Some how the metal channel with plastic end cap approach to bumpers works better on the SD1 series 1.
Your currency graph is very important. The high value of the £ hastened the end of the TR7 and the MGB.
Oh, but i would have loved to seen one of those TR-8's with the Rover/Buick V-8.
I had the unfortunate experience of rebuilding one of those engines in an 87 Range Rover. The unfortunate part was that it had been driven until the two rear connecting rods were actually twisted together above the crankshaft, the crankshaft was bent, and the block needed two new cylinder sleeves..... two rods, new pistons, rings, bearing inserts, and fortunately the crankshaft was repaired.
I had no idea that engine was used in the smaller cars, but I can appreciate the fact!
This is the first vide of yours I have watched and I enjoyed your style. Subbed!
Great video and channel find. Liked and subscribed.
I remember being disappointed when a friend replaced his Alfasud 1.5ti for a TR7 in the late 70's. It just didn't seem right, both stylistically or in its handling. In (I think) 1979 a friend and I blagged our way to the London launch of the TR7 drophead (actually by cadging tickets from my friends boss and pretending to be him, I had to borrow a suit!). It was a champagne launch in a large dealership in Shoreditch on the edge of the City of London. Everybody agreed it was a VAST improvement in style but..... most of us were more interested in the Lenham Healey on the forecourt .... Oh, and I've never drank so much champagne in one go as I did that night.... easy when you're 23!!
Good story, thanks!
In the first half of 1981 (mere weeks after Triumph ceased production) I was an 18-year-old lot attendant at a Jaguar-Rover-Truimph/MG/Saab dealership in Calgary, AB, Canada. I got to drive all of these cars, including the TR8 - some of which had been fitted by their owners with Holley 650 dual-pump carbs, headers and dual exhaust. Those TR8s were a true joy to drive.
The TR7s, not so much. In North America our choking emissions regulations had stifled horsepower and stretched the TR7's zero-to-sixty time from a titch over nine seconds in European trim to a shade under eleven seconds here.
But that wasn't all. The glitches present in these cars (even though they were built in Coventry) were as predictable as they were frequent: Headlights that refused to pop up (often only one of them would do so), rusty Phillips screw heads from being exposed to the sea-salt elements on the way across the pond, throttle cables that would snap, windshield trim clips that would go missing, electrical gremlins, you name it. And this was on NEW un-sold cars that were just landed off the car carrier(!) And then there were those butt-ugly ginormous rubber bumpers - designed in such a way that there would never be an after-market alternative. Even Chip Foose would have been stumped.
While some colours were very attractive (aquamarine, British racing green, white, etc.), one combination was downright gaudy: Orange exterior with blue upholstery. WTF were they thinking?
The handling did feel tight though, and the TR8 was even more so. The instrument panel, in spite of the extensive expanses of plastic, was attractive, well laid out and functional.
Would I buy a TR7 now? Hell, no. But a TR8? Absolutely.
Great video - always meant to add a tr7 to the fleet - still have my 1982 austin rover range brochure to drool over. My drinking buddy actually designed the bonnet for it and has a production drawing for it somewhere! Nice car and I agree - the interior especially was light years ahead of the other cars and (don’t tell anyone) better than the 70s or even 80s golf or fords in my opinion. Must check out fleabay….. :)
As A 70's kid , my two favourite cars that stood out to me , my old man was a ford die hard escorts , capris, granadas etc, the TR7 was my ooh look at that dad, or on a couple of occasions the Fiat X19 their wedge shape was almost pink panther futuristic, in amongst the surrounding boxy cars of the time. though never had the chance to own one, it still catches me today as having been been a tidy little design ,
Great video. I do like a Harris Mann wedge. Used to have a gold drophead TR7, which was a lot of fun. I now get my wedge kicks with a Princess.
Glad you enjoyed it! I’m an admirer of the Princess too, as you may have seen 😊
Great video about this car, also some beautiful shots of the gold Lancia beta coupe.
I had a 76 TR7 that I used back then to get my racing license. Very well mannered on the track... My problems were an alternator failure and headlight motor. But the biggest problem was the fragile gearbox that failed twice under warranty, glad they replaced it with the later stout Rover box...
Thank you. I haven't seen a running TR7 in more than 30 years. I still have my '77... or what's left of it. My plans to restore it, remain only a plan. But I did love to drive it. It really was a fun car on the road. The crazy thing is, if I had just waited two weeks, I could have had my first choice, a 914.
As a Brit that was living in California, driving a terrific Jensen Interceptor that consumed fuel at 7 mpg (US Gal.) on the highway and only 4 mph around town I bought a low mileage 1980 TR7 Spider from a small Porsche dealer that had taken it in trade. It had some issues, mostly simple to fix but apparently too difficult for the Porsche mechanics in Laguna Beach. After negotiating decent reduction in price a deal was made. Over the next couple of weeks I sorted out the mostly haphazard wiring 'fixes' the PO (?) had made and everything worked, including the A/C, which was great when tooling around LA in the heat of the summer.
But, the car suffered from a distinct lack of power. To pass the California CARB regulations Leyland had installed a lower power engine that for the other 49 states. It was claimed to deliver 92 bhp but a check on a rolling road, after a complete tune up, netted just 72 at the wheels, without the A/C running. being a car builder and tuner I decided to swap the weak lump for a stronger one. research showed the iron Buick V6 widely used in a plethora of GM vehicles was as strong as the Rover aluminium V8, and smaller too.
Driving, even with the ZF five speed box was a pain in dense LA traffic but the massive torque of the Buick V6 was ideal for a four speed automatic. Really a three speed with tall overdrive. It took a few weeks to locate suitable;e hardware and install everything. I ran into some issues with the California CARB referees but after a few tries and some devious modifications it passed the test. It was far, far cleaner than the original Triumph 4 banger. That was around 1982. I'm pleased to say I still own and drive my beautiful black spider regularly forty years on.
It's worth mentioning that UK politics was a major contributor to the demise of Triumph and especially the TR7/8. The government did not negotiate in good faith. There were over 7,000 finished TR7s in fields around the Speke plant as because of the Dollar vs Sterling imbalance Leyland couldn't sell them profitable in the USA! They didn't need or want the factory workers to get back to work as they were just building more cars the company couldn't sell! There are now indications that the unions had been infiltrated by agitators that kept stirring up trouble and tipping off the newspapers so they would be on hand for the worst events, along with that bastion of the British Government, the BBC.
Britain had a massive balance of payments problem and the US banking system had Thread Needle Street by the balls, and they were not about to change hands. The US was intent on suppressing the British economy as it confused Socialism with Communism. No one in Britain had the money to update our manufacturing capabilities. WWII , following so soon after WWI, had left the coffers empty. The US could have helped but it was more interested in rebuilding the German economy in the vane hope they would become the defense bolster against Soviet tanks driving across Europe from the east.
The government forcing mergers that were supposed to provide economy of scale could only happen with deep pockets. They would have been far better off to let the companies compete and put the weaker ones out of business, but Britain's Socialists didn't understand and the Tories were cowards that did not want lose power when the unemployed voted next time. It was not just about vehicles. Look at the British computer industry mergers, aerospace mergers, even clothing manufacturers were forced to merge or die. Britain was a true technological leader but the US was a true business leader. And business is war, just without the shooting.
Tomorrow is February 10th., the anniversary of Sir John Black's birthday. He was the most significant head of Standard Triumph and deserves to be remembered. I shall be driving our beautiful black TR7 Spider around town tomorrow, stopping for it to be admired at the local coffee shop first, supermarkets and at one or two popular hostelries, even though I have to put the roof up as it's forecast to still be raining throughout the day. One of the best features of the TR7 is it is such a clean design the rain wipes off easily.
Thank you for the great video. I would have liked to see a test drive of the TR8.
As an aside, I never understood the hatred in Britain around the TR7. It's a pretty car, inside and out, that handles well, quickly, and with the V8 is properly fast.
You’re welcome! I’d love to try a TR8, even a conversion, if I can find someone willing to let me 😊
@@GrandThriftAuto the TR8 was more than just a better engine, the suspension was far, far better. It felt like a completely different car, and better in every way.
@@henrysniper8481 Although I can't compare ithe handling to the 7, I can say the TR8 was a dream.
My TR7 had incorrect timing marks on the flywheel. It would never idle without stalling, and no BL dealer could put it right. Eventually it stalled in the backstreets of Leytonstone, and some excellent Hindustani mechanics in a lockup set it right by ignoring the timing marks. I went back to them again and again after that! Sold it on leaving the UK in 1985. In 1991 I bought an NA Miata and still have it 32 years later. A perfect sports car.
I have always really liked the TR7 and TR8. Back in the day I so really wanted one.
I had a 1981 DHC - bought it in 1984 - very comfortable and fast enough. Spent quite a bit sorting rust and had a Dolomite Sprint head fitted - looked fabulous - sold it to buy my wife's engagement ring - didn't quite cover the cost!! I liked it but certainly could not be accused of being reliable! Have had a GT6 convertible since 1999 when it was built for me and is just more fun - no more reliable and not as comfortable but much easier to work on and better looking. The TR7 was however a great long distance cruiser as quieter and more comfortable. But I have a BMW 430 convertible if doing that, which does not rust and I know will not break down!
The Fiat X1/9 was the little beauty of the period. ..I had three and loved them all...just a few survivors now...those were the days...
an old mate at school was obsessed with the TR7. he drew it on anything and everything he could. caught up with him in our early 20s and he'd seen the light and bought an X1/9. however, things took a major turn for the worst in our mid 30s when he finally bought a TR7. you just knew it was going to happen lol.
I worked on a few TR7s thanks to my apprenticeship at a Triumph Stag specialist. if my very distant memory serves me right the car is a mish-mash of Triumph Dolomite, Morris Marina and Rover SD1 under the skin.
When my wife and I (British) were married the Vicar (American) discovered that I had a TR7 (DHC Persian Aqua). He had been in the US Navy as a young man, and had owned a TR7. He told us a story; he had been driving down an interstate "to see how fast it would go" when he belatedly spotted a Police car going the other way. He looked in the rear view mirror in time to see the police car crossing the grass divide and bounce onto the carriageway behind him. As the flashing lights came on, he said "I could see the shotguns clipped to the bulkhead behind the policemen, and decided I had best stop".
I too have been stopped in a TR7, on a number of occasions, by the police. However, I wasn't in danger of being shot; They do things differently over there.
I was a young mechanic, in the NW of the U.S (1980s). My shop mate and I made a good living working on all of the imports; Brit, Swede, Ital & German. Many U.S. mechanics were shy on imports. I owned an MGB and a Citroen DS21 Break; my mate had a Cit DS Cabrio & Datsun 2000 Roadster.
We both liked the way the TR7 handled. Other than that, we hated them rolling up to the shop; premature wear, build quality, electrical - the list goes on…….
I had a coventry built drophead TR7 that I bought from my ex girl freinds brother and used it as a daily runner, it had been resprayed in Toyota celica blue and as he used to work at the same place as the Red Arrows was sprayed with the same lacquer. I never had a problem with it and I still think it was one of the best handling cars I have ever had and it never let me down, the only pain was making sure that you kept the oil level topped up on the carbs. I would love to have another one.
Back in the 80's I bought a 1976 TR7, green with dark interior. I loved how it looked and handled, but didn't like it's build quality and lack of power. I had to carry a flashlight ( electric torch ) in the car because the dash lights would quit working at times. One night while parking it I turned off the lights and the right headlight wouldn't go down, that took a while to find the short. One day, as I was getting out, the drivers door fell off ( the pins fell out of the hinge ) in front of a group of people. If you drove it through a puddle the motor would quit. I got rid of it after a year of a love/hate relation with it.
Years later I was looking at a Convertible TR7 ( Yellow w/black interior) and when I tested the headlights they went up, I turned them off and they went down.... then back up and right back down. They wouldn't stop, I pulled out the key but they keep on going up and down. The owner took his hands and pushed down on the lights and held them down until they quit. I thanked him and walked away.
I had a number of new TR 7's built in all 3 factories : The Speke one had a 4 speed box and was not very well assembled -the Canley built with 5 speed was better but the best was the Solihull version. The hood badge changed with each factory -I think the ''TR7'' badge was Speke ''-Laurel leaf'' was Canley and circular encapsulated badge was Solihull. I really liked the car and drove all over Europe in them.
Interesting - and you’re right about the badges. The Solihull ones also introduced ‘2.0 litre’ badges on the front wings, which slightly foxed the 11-year-old me who thought - correctly - that they’d always been 2 litres.
In the late 80's/early 90's there were a number of TR7's on the market for sale in Detroit. I was torn between getting a TR7, Fiat X/19, or Pontiac Fiero. I even considered the Porsche 914 briefly. I remember every now and again seeing TR8's pop up but it was never when I had the money to buy one (TR7's were going for something like $1000 in the early 90's and the TR8 only fetched maybe another $500-$1000 over that). I never got any of those cars, and I'm sure anyone that still has a TR7 or TR8 here in Metro Detroit is probably going to want an utterly insane amount for it so it's not something I'll likely ever get a chance to own but I still really like the design.
Shockingly, due to the unnecessarily bad press they have gotten, the TR7/TR8 is still a pretty affordable classic.
I'm like you, I like the design. I saw he TR7 on a fore court at a used car dealer near me in my early 20s. I'm in Canada north of Toronto. Just married and requiring a second car. It looked exactly like the blue car at 11:40. Low miles and only $2900, the 1978 was a bargain in early 80s about half price when it was new. It only had around 15,000 miles on it. No rust anywhere so probably kept in a garage. Dealer put new sport Goodyear tires on it. Cheap car, new tires, great on gas. A British buddy of mine liked the car as well but had advised me to change the engine oil more frequently than recommended. Fresh oil seemed to prevent engine problems in his mind. Actually, it must have worked, never had any issues. Drove it a few years, loved how light it was, handled very well on corners. It was one of the best cars I owned. One cold winter morning the battery was dead, but the car was 6 years old. Lucky to go that long on a battery. That was all, just a battery, all the lights worked, AM/FM Cassette was okay, not incredible. Little package shelf at rear window for the Cocker Spaniel. Once a baby showed up, switched to a Fiat 128 Sport with a back seat. Both of us loved that little car and were sad to see it go.
Thanks, had my drophead 26 years,. Have 2 V8 hardtops, they are all brilliant. All the car experts laugh at them, but they have owned one...
I bet a V8 hardtop is great fun!
My friend and I have debated this for years. He thinks the TR7 is ugly and clearly inferior to the TR6. But I’ve actually been in one, and I think it’s a sleeper. The styling is… er… not a strong point, but the ergo and handling are excellent. And who doesn’t like plaid interiors?
Wonderful history to a car I also think is gorgeous. Thank you!
Thank you!
Aha! Finally got it. (It is early morning and I am a bit slow.) “Drophead” = “Ragtop” (There may be another term for a car that stores its keep-the-rain-off-your-head thing folded up in the back.)
There are a few issues with translation from British to American, but I wouldn’t be too concerned with flashing text on the screen. Even those of us who are a bit dense will figure it out after awhile.
Interesting video. My late cousin (who normally favored American pickup trucks) had a TR6 that is still a legend in the family.
Translation issues noted! Drop head and fixed head were the actual names used by Triumph at the time, but I dare say they called them something else in North America. Thanks.
I had the TR7 sprint ARW 181S which was show at the motor show in 1978......great car.
I was studying aeronautics at Imperial College in London when the TR7 came out. We had a special day to inspect the car in the university quadrangle, and I remember being very disappointed that it was front engined. Magazines focussed on reliability issues, so as I was in the market for a new car I bought a Fiat X1/9 -1300 which was also new at the time. This proved to be underpowered and unreliable as well, but when the X1/9-1500 arrived it proved to be everything the -1300 promised but didn’t deliver.
I know that Triumph slant 4 very well. Rebuilt every part of that engine a couple of times. Piston rings and lands would wear out quickly, cylinder head gaskets a PIA, heads were always bent, on the dolomites the auto flex plate would always crack, drive shaft and diff under engineered, geez kept it going for years for my sister but alot of work.
I really liked them. Apart from build quality, its biggest fault was that it wasn't a TR6, or even close. The TR8 was what the TR7 should have been from the outset but came far too late. And the dhc was a cracker!
I had a very early model 75 TR7 and let's just say it left a lot to be desired. My 1980 TR8 convertible which I still own today, was an entirely different car. If BL had started off with the sprint head and then been able to get the TR8 into production a couple of years earlier it would have been an entirely different story. By the time they finally got it right it was just too late.
Had a second hand one, java green, with the 4 speed as they'd had issues with the early 5 speed.
Lovely car, worked well, drove better than the spitfire, MGB and others of the era. Handled really well, quicker than expected - I once flew around Chiswick roundabout at a ridiculously high speed and it he'd the line like it was on rails.
Had it for a couple of years and would happily have one again, although I might struggle getting in and out of it these days. Much better than it was given credit for, easy to work on at home and never let me down for the 2 years I had it.
The old buyers of TR's didn't like it because it was different, but they missed out on a good car, well except for the Friday afternoon cars.
Loved the look of them, as a kid in the 70's. But remember all the strike's on the news.
A friend of the family bought a TR7 from new and I got to go in it as a passenger. I think it did look cool, as did the owner. However, the owner soon sold it after suffering a number of issues and instead bought a Golf GTI. The world had moved on already.
I'm ex-BL (Triumph, Radford and Rover, Solihull) and owned a yellow Canley-built FHC in the mid-1990's here in Oz, though I didn't keep it for very long as it always required work and parts from those excellent guys at Rimmer Bros. For local conditions it was underpowered - we got the asthmatic de-toxed US version - underbraked, undertyred and the interior plastics didn't stand up well to local conditions, nor did the electrics. I drove a DHC version with a view to buying it, but found that it had 'way too much scuttle-shake. The best model that I drove - and almost bought - was a FHC that had been fitted with uprated brakes/tyres and the Leyland P76 4.4-litre V-8 engine. Now that performed as a sports car should; I didn't buy it because it didn't come with an engineer's certificate, which would have created a lot of problems.
Facinating, one of those cars that I like one moment then look at it from a different angle and I' not so keen, Tony Pond showed that they were pretty good though.
Have always liked the TR7. In 1981, as a high school lad with a healthy bank account I went new car shopping in Calgary, Alberta 1981. The TR7 was in my top 2, but the $11,000 (or maybe it was $13,000) price tag (Canadian) was too much for my bank. So a $6700 Dodge (Mitsubishi) Colt had to suffice. Have only had one Triumph so far - a 1968 MKI GT6 which I adored. Always thought the FHC TR7 was a successor to the GT6 in Triumph's tin top line up. Thanks for this video - time to go look for a 7 - thought I would have preferred a 6 cylinder engine.
The TR7/8 has aged extremely well. Aspects of its design that seemed controversial at the time, such as that swage line down the side is now quite commonplace and the front aspect was always a sleek masterpiece. It certainly looked its best as a convertible as did the Jag XJS. Like so many of British Leyland's offerings at the time, it was a good, forward - thinking design that was ruined by the background turmoil that undermined everything the company did.
Yes, I was just thinking that this afternoon as I passed myriad cars with ‘that’ slash. Like the 70s Lotus Elite’s window line, it was decades ahead of its time and now it’s become universal!
@@GrandThriftAuto wow, someone who likes the '70s Lotus Elite. I always thought it was a neat piece of work, and dislike the chopped Eclat derived from it.
Early Elites had engine troubles, due to rushed development. Must have had some ex-BL managers......
I was forever welding them for the MOT in the 80's
“The Shape of Things to Come”. I remember those television commercials.
Huge TV advertising campaign in the US in the 70's for the TR7. "The Shape of Things to Come" was the tag line. Hardly ever saw anybody actually driving one.
I love the TR7. My dad had a Rover SD1 that spent a lot of time at the dealers and I would always go with him just to sit inside the tartan splendour of the TR7 in the showroom.
the silver anniversary edition convertible a buddy had was a little BEAST.
more power and better wheel+suspension+brake package right out the box.
nicely balanced very good handling, I drove it hard many times.
The 30th Anniversary version did not include running gear upgrades - just the TR8 alloy wheels (but in a slightly different color, I think), Moto-Lita steering wheel, fog lights, and luggage rack. The 2.0L engine is unchanged.
I remember LJK Setright writing a column in BIKE magazine in the 1970's.
What a match made in hell.
This is superbly produced content. I didn't know of this channel until this morning and it has literally blown my mind today. Wishing you every success!
Thanks very much! That's a very encouraging comment to log in to, much appreciated and I'm really glad you enjoyed it :)
@@GrandThriftAuto As someone with my own prime time tv series on both CH5 and in NL (10 seasons over 9 years) take it from me - your presenting skills are super.
I have always loved the look of the TR7. Plus they are a lot of fun to drive!
I fell in love with the design when I saw a red one driving around the Annapolis waterfront in 1987. So in 1990 I found a nicely used 1980 TR7 convertible. For an 80s car, the design was solid. It handled great on back roads. Unfortunately the thing was horrendously built. The engine was feeble, every metal contact corroded into dust. You had to stall the engine when shutting it off so that it wouldn’t continue for an extra turn. Every fitting became loose. The door handles would become wobbly and eventually pull out of the door into your hand. The roof leaked, the A/C didn’t work and sapped engine power, the headlights wouldn’t retract. As a car, it was useless. I grew to hate it and eventually sold it to some sucker. I had a TR6 from 1988 through last year. An infinitely better car than the TR7. Sad to say, It was because of the TR7 that Triumph deserved to die.
I came back from my honeymoon in mid June 1980, me and the wife promptly jumped in my 280Z and went to price a TR7 convertible. I went for a test drive and loved it! The dealer offered us a sweetheart deal, 3 thousand and our 280Z and we’d be driving a new Triumph. I was 22 years old. I thought about it for a few minutes, and politely declined. The monthly payments, although I don’t remember how much they were, scared me to death. What a mistake!
Everything changed in 1980. My 1980 TR8 was rock solid reliable. By then it was just too late to change people's minds. The worst thing about the cars was the tartan plaid inserts in the upholstery, and the (by today's standards) very plastic looking dashboard, but even the inflatable pads on the center console worked well. The worst I can say about the TR8 is that the leather cover on the stock Moto-Lita steering wheel wore out on the top center, something I still think about today because the same thing has not happened at all on my 2012 BMW convertible.
As a child I always thought the fixed head looked hideous, BUT when the convertible came out I was won over. It still looks good.
The TR7 by the end was a victim of the £ $ exchange rate, and the failure of the SD1 meaning that the Solihull factory closed down, leaving it homeless.