CPF Reviews #7: Where is My Mind?-The Conundrum of "Sucker Punch"
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2017
- Was Sucker Punch the result of an adolescent male fantasy run amok, or was there something more going on? Were the critics full of shit? Is it both? Neither? Does it matter? Do I provide a clear answer? Watch and find out. I'm not just going to tell you.
Развлечения
I love this movie and find the characters empowering. I'm so sick of self righteous feminazi's giving "real" feminists like me a bad name.
I find it hard to really say which adherents of a particular ideology are the "real" ones, given that ideologies change over time (Democrats and Republicans basically have traded platforms since their beginnings). I just found it kind of fascinating how so many different reviewers saw so many different things in this film, and most of them were about how there was something wrong with the male audience, no matter which side they were on.
"It's not a litmus test... it's a Rorshach test..." possibly the best comment on this movie I've seen. Also, major bonus points for actually consulting female fans of this film. I myself love this movie and was impressed by the work you put in to give it a fair shake. Thank you for this.
I was really hoping to get more feedback from fans, but fortunately two of them actually contributed really thorough answers, so I guess it worked out in the end.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks If you're looking for more, I'd be happy to add my two cents. 😁 Probably a day late and a dollar short at this point.
I wish RUclips had a means of overwriting old videos with improved or upgraded ones (which Vimeo does), but sadly the only way would be to just upload a new one entirely and lose all the existing feedback...if that was the case, I'd take you up on that, but after two years and the rather minimal amout of views this has gotten, I'm not going to reset it to zero. Maybe someday I'll do a remastered series or something like that.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks I completely understand. That's a lot of work!
nice review! one of the few i've seen who analysed the nuances of this film. In my opinion, this movie is great just for the fact that it really does make you think about a lot of issues like the treatment of women in pop and geek culture. the description "glorious mess" is quite accurate still.
"Do I provide a clear answer?"
I hope not. I expect points of view and an interesting analysis.
I'm here from Thor Skywalker and congrats on the channel. Liking it so far
Hoping you got what you were looking for.
I loved this movie and found the conclusion heartbreaking, due to the fact she chose the alternative mind world. Just like Leos character in Shutter Island or the Japanese tychoon in Inception. Sweet Pea was real and was NOT Baby doll. Baby doll had her escape in the real world and told her to live her life. She imagined her escape on the bus in the fantasy. But the escape was real. The psychiatrist said so. Baby doll was the protagonist, but wanted it to be Sweet Pea. She wanted to take the heat all along, so her sister could live. She wanted to be free from the guilt. It annoys me people only see the glossy girls and have opinions on the aesthetic, instead of the story.
The zombie part makes sense to me because I often dream of zombies when I have alot of obstacles ahead of me and I'm nervous if I'll be successful or not. Since it's the start of thier quests that feel is relatable
Interesting...I think I've only ever had one dream with zombies, where I was fighting them with a sword on a weird subway platform. It was kind of cool, actually. My stress dreams are of the more mundane "I'm at work and everything is fucking up" variety. I'd rather have the zombies.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks i have those too. But generally those are just average stress or anxiety. Zombie dreams are usually when I have a huge project or doing a job with a steep learning curve or when I'm in a leadership position. Whereas regular stress dreams is just general wear and tear-Work itself is fine just too much of it at once whereas zombie dreams is alot of uncharted territory ahead with big obstacles I have to overcome.
In my “woke” first watch was hyper critical. But, the reality of all future watches show a criticism of the self deprecating feminist culture from their interior perspective. It is ART to sell something and I think Snyder does a great job of that.
Damn u made me appreciate this film in a whole new light.
I really liked this review, you made a lot of good points about the movie. I especially liked how you mentioned that its better aim high and fail than to make just another cookie cutter movie. That's the same philosophy I have making my own films. When I made my first movie, most of the independents at the time were making movies about someone trying to make a movie, (how original). Instead, my first one was a sci-fi action movie. Yeah, we did not have the budget but the movie got distribution, and the hatred of many a critic. Look at Merc Force on Netflix and you'll see what I mean, somebody said I was worse than the holocaust, and aids for making the movie. I've improved dramatically since then with the tech, but my company still tries to push the envelope of whats possible with our budget. That being said, I've always loved your stuff. believe it or not, when I and my friends first saw your Ozone Commandos preview, that helped inspired us to start shooting. Keep it up man, and if you need any FX help let me know, extra hands are always helpful. Plus I really want to see the next part of Ozone Commandos.
I'm in the process of assembling Ozone Commandos part two right now; I hope to have it done within a year. Better compositing tools have sped up the process immensely, but at the end of the day it's still going to look like VHS; there's nothing that can be done about that. I'd really like to do something akin to a real movie someday, but as technology has gone up in quality and accessibility, the availability of people to spend time working on something like a film has dropped. If I was in my twenties now instead of during the 90s, we could've really done something.
The fantasy sequences are kind of my biggest problem with the narrative structure of the movie. They don't feel like they're propelling the main narrative forward but rather are just distractions before switching back to the asylum to continue the story forward. Most of the actual identifiable symbolism really only shows up in the asylum sections, while none of the events in the fantasy sequences really have much of a connection to anything occurring with the characters in the other realm. I would've preferred it either to have taken place in a distorted version of the asylum itself or have it take place completely in the fantasy realm where every leg of the journey was a metaphor for the main character's trauma and personal demons. By having it both ways, the story just feels really unfocused and poorly paced.
Nice to get a new one!
Best sucker punck review out there: smart and nuanced.
Matt! Love your films.
Zack Snyder has confirmed that there is a director's cut of Sucker Punch that has not been released and is even better than the extended cut and is rated r. WB butchered it down (theatrical cut) to PG 13 to get more money.
Interesting, though the existing extended cut is already rated R, which it shouldn't be-it has no nudity, sex, profanity, or graphic violence. WB did not make the changes to the film, however; Snyder did that himself to get a PG-13 rating. It wasn't taken away from him and changed without his involvement.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Snyder said in an interview that his movie was compromised and wants to release the full version.
It can be found now. On Amazon you can rent the theatrical version ($2.99) but if you want the extended cut, you have to buy it for $9.99
Good job man!
You were slow to come to the realization that some of us had as soon as we walked out of the cinema - Sucker Punch is brilliant. Welcome aboard, latecomer.
I'm not entirely sure that's what I said. I think my exact description was "glorious mess." It's an endorsement of sorts, but not quite so glowing as your own estimation.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Fair enough. It's one of my favorite movies so I am indeed biased.
It's definitely a film that someone very specifically wanted to make, and I always tend to have a soft spot for those, given the vastly larger number of cookie-cutter films you forget right after seeing that no one involved seemed especially passionate about.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks I enjoyed this Sucker Punch analysis video and am now watching your Twin Peaks stuff.
Wow....This was really good
I think this film...is a Masterpiece , this is why you should not listen to , negative reviews, if you love this film
Great review, i love this film
Please feel free to share it anywhere you like-RUclips really doesn't send viewers my way.
I love the costumes in Sucker Punch, and the camera never objectifies the women on screen. This movie has some flaws but sexism is definitely not one of them
Given the subject matter, it certainly doesn't do it much, though it's hard to see that shot of Emily Browning jumping the samurai sword with her legs fanned out towards the camera and not feel that Zack Snyder didn't think to himself, "This is pretty hot." Which it is, honestly, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can understand why some people might think it's definitely catering to male viewers more than female viewers. Before making this video I had no idea just how much the fanbase of this film seems to be made up of women.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Idk I didn't think that way at all with that shot, I thought it looked badass- It didn't look like the intent was to show her panties, it was more abt the move itself. I don't think Zack's like that
@@usernameunknown9940
They shoot multiple takes from all angles and edit to get the shot they want. If Baby Doll's panties are shown, it's because they are meant to. I do find that with overall character development, the ladies are shown pretty modestly considering a lot of the scenes take place in a brothel. Nothing more revealing than other super heroine movies, like say, Catwoman or Wonder Woman.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Snyder is never horny like Michael bay. Snyder himself prefer "cool shot" over sexy shot
Faith No More!
I'd forgotten I was wearing that shirt in this...at first, I had no idea what you were talking about.
I think the men missed the fact that some women enjoy wearing sexy outfits because it makes them feel powerful. And sometimes, that's the only power a woman can have.
It's an easy thing to miss, because I can't personally relate to that at all. Look at what constitutes classy attire for men and women...for men, the impetus seems to be to cover every inch of the guy with multiple layers of clothing, while women's outfits have the bared shoulders and plunging necklines. Men are just kind of hideous, so it doesn't occur to most of us to bare much of anything in order to manipulate the feelings of others.
Zach Snyder's Mullholand Drive
It's flawed, but worth defending. I'd rather rewatch Sucker Punch than the ponderous and self-important drudgery that is Inception.
Them's fighting words, son. Inception is one of my all-time favorite films, and I don't see anything in it that qualifies as "self-important." Or ponderous, for that matter.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks Nolan's "more meta-than-meta" theme, and the content (the logic of valuation, revaluation of values, and so on) interests me, no doubt. But that film was so heavy-handed, I felt like I was being beaten over the head with a meta-hammer.
It's a long way from the tantalizing riddle of "Memento", the riveting craftsmanship of "Prestige" and the Dark Knight films. I just couldn't find anything interesting to discuss after watching "Inception". Not even the notorious top. Then again, I'm an insufferable philosophy geek.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks It's as if Micheal Bay read some Descartes, Freud, and a little Baudrillard (yes, yes I know - name-dropping is lazy but I *am* lazy) and then tried to remake the Matrix - or something.
Those are fightin' words, yessir. So! Persuade me otherwise. There may be no dispute in matters of taste, but there is always room for persuasion.
The tone is ponderous, it's all shootin' and expositionx3 (everyone seems to have to explain every plot point 3 times, idk why) and the critique of "self-importance" derives from this very fact - Nolan treats his audience like dumbasses. He's better than that.
It's unfortunate that many of the audience ARE dumbasses...I've seen people trying to explain that in The Prestige there really was no duplication device because the technology wouldn't work-I guess HG Wells' Time Machine must've read like an opium-fueled fantasy to those people-or that Borden also had a Tesla machine and not a real twin, which makes even less sense, given that he would not then be wracking his brains trying to figure out Angier's trick if it was actually the exact same one he was using himself. It's insane. I actually think the exposition in Inception is handled better than in many of his films, where it often comes in one big dump, as opposed to being sprinkled throughout in a rational context, that of initiating a new team member.
Now The Matrix, THAT film I find overbearing. It's the ultimate dumb film posturing as a smart film, and I mean the original, not just the sequels.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks
I would say everyone is a dumbass but not everyone is a complete dumbass. If filmmakers proceed with only the first claim in mind, to quote yourself "it can always get worse".
I mean, people - ordinary people - used to enjoy some very smart popular culture, pre-Jaws and the onslaught of the Blockbuster, the full realization of The Society of the Spectacle.
The Matrix had:
1) Style, wit, panache
2) A sense of humour
3) SEX
4) Occasionally profound moments among the Phil101 and - agreed - dumb spirituality (well..one. The hollowed-out copy of Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulacrum" is clever, made me chuckle)
5) Worked as a kind of ideological Rorschach test (more on that later, if you like)
And
6) Was shot in Sydney, where I live. It put our fair, pomo, neoliberal, late capitalist Paradise City on the screen as never before.
Inception had...well...none of that.
Great analysis. But I gotta say the shadow across your face from ear to nose makes you look like a Freman from Dune.
Yeah, I didn't realize that was there until I'd shot everything. Major disadvantage of doing camerawork of yourself. But if I look like a Dune character, it's not all bad.
You should check out the song Suckerpunch by The Wildhearts
If the movie means to be unambiguous about whether the step-dad or the Emily kills the little girl, it doesn’t do a perfect job. In the theatrical she only fires once, and the bullet is shown to pass through the light-bulb. In the extended the second shot is shown to end up in the pipe, causing a gas leak, and it is difficult to tell where that pipe is situated in relation to the little girl. We also see the Emily outside the house between the shots of step-dad kicking in door, and step-dad turning around to face the Emily, which initially gives the impression at least ten seconds has passed (could be alot more, he’s not on the ground floor of the house, so she’ll have to enter the house, get gun/climb stairs before arriving), and he has motive to kill the little girl; to inherit the mother’s estate (and he could have done the deed simply by smashing her head against the floor or whatever.) On the other hand, the fact the position of the step-dad doesn’t change between the shots, implies he hasn’t entered the closet. I’d say the confusion is valid.
P.S. edit
Seeing everything as inside the Abbie’s mind, the ambiguity of that scene could be her struggle to process the event, and then when the psychiatrist states the fact at the end, that’s the Abbie’s coming to terms with what happpened.
The fact that he hasn't moved and has no apparent weapon I think would settle it, but it's mostly the fact that Babydoll's line about wanting to take something back has no context otherwise.
Oui
My interpretation is that only two scenes truly happened. Rocket’s death and the lobotomy. I see Babydoll as a piece of Sweetpea and the entire film is her trying to figure out where she went wrong. The shooting is her perception that her escape plan essentially murdered her sister. She never escapes in the end and is lobotomised.
Yeah, no matter how you view it, it's not a very cheerful film.
i loved the movie too
Love the movie and this video
Thanks, though there is a newer, improved version of this one up here.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks cool I’ll watch that too!
Finally: Someone points out the parallels to Brazil. The samurai was the only reason I went to see Sucker Punch, hoping for more allusions to movie history. Yet, I still don't know whether I like Sucker Punch or not.
Yeah, it is one of those weird ones that it's hard to get a clear opinion on, isn't it?
Corn Pone Flicks Definitely maybe!☺
I couldn't care less about the costumes, what I really didn't like about the film is how it sells sexual violence as a cool mindgame in which women can fight trauma instead of, you know, doing something in the real world...
I would counter that the film doesn't actually depict sexual violence. Exploitation, yes, but not violence. The one time it's about to reach that point is when Blue ends up getting stabbed, which I'd say was something being done in the real world. It may be shown in the "brothel" delusion, but we see later that Oscar Isaac does actually have that wound in his shoulder, meaning it really did occur.
We are off to see the wizard the wonderful wizard of oz 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
You say force awakens has flaws but have you seen the last Jedi already?... I haven't because I don't want to support a bad film it was.
I haven't, and based on everything I've heard about it, I don't want to. It sounds terrible. It's unfortunate, frankly, because I've really liked the director's previous work.
Btw Zack Snyder revealed that the Extended Cut is NOT his final cut. There's still a real directors cut of this gem. And I want to see it.
I heard that, though I don't expect it will ever happen. They can't even get it together enough to put out the alleged Snyder cut of Justice League, for which there's been far more demand (which I find funny, given just how much people previously complained about Batman V. Superman).
omg how do you know that?
@@michaelhawkins7389 Snyder said in one of his RUclipsr interviews. he said we need to wait until 2025 because of distribution between different country causing his cut is not release.
LOVED this review with how you addressed the numerous interpretations of the film while also nailing my number one issue: Muppet Babies did it better.
People can say "It's in the name! It's a Sucker Punch!" but that's not my beef. My beef was that the fantasy sequences have nothing to do with anything. They don't sync up with what's really happening so the stakes and actions don't make sense. I was IMMIDIATELY reminded of Muppet Babies and Rugrats and how they also has elaborate fantasy sequences to represent mundane actions and they worked SO MUCH BETTER because it was easier to tell what was what. But Sucker Punch was 3 layers deep in metaphor by this point and so I couldn't tell what shooting a zombie or punching a robot MEANT in the brothel world OR the real world! In a weird way, the movie would have been better WITHOUT the fantasy sequences that drew me in in the first place.
Also, anime-style "girls in sexy outfits kicking ass" movies are so rare can you blame me for wanting to see one?! I will say that Zack Snyder's attempted criticism of the audience and himself makes no sense and falls short. Indeed it is, as you say, a Rorschach test as even Zack Snyder can't properly explain what his intent or point was with this film and the film itself does a terrible job too...
...and in a weird way, that's the best part of the movie.
It very much struck me that Snyder had these crazy fantasy scenes in his head, and needed a context outside of reality that would allow them to make some sort of sense, but as you said, the metaphors got lost in the translation for the most part. I'll say this for him: Zack Snyder films look like Zack Snyder films, and that matters in a world where so many films look like they were made by nobody in particular.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks
That's exactly what Howard Hawks said about films he liked.
Brain cell not reach that peak.. back then..
I do not want to live in a universe where you are NOT one of the most high-profile, go-to, zillion-subscriber YT media critics; something *really* needs to be done about this situation.
I could stand to have a few more, but "zillions" is for people who actually want fame. To me, that just sounds like thousands of people always suggesting I review this or that movie I know I'm never going to do. (Incidentally, there's a newer, HD version of this video I recently uploaded.)
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks: Full Disclosure: In that hypothetical world, I would legit doubtless be ONE of said, pestering 'suggesters', from time to time--there are *many* works of media out there, deserving of your special brand of witty/side-eye assessment--so I guess...bullet successfully dodged there? Well done! :D
I've been making short films and videos since 1989 (and some that weren't so short), well before RUclips, and in that time countless people have suggested I make this or that video, usually something I wasn't interested in doing. My answer has always been the same: if you want to see that made, you should make it yourself. You're the one who's interested, so you'll do it more justice than me. Plus, these days, making videos is easier than it ever was during the 90s.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicks: Fair enough; those people who endlessly pester you like that--I myself haven't become one of them, but I can *totally* get behind the mindset of those who might--only do so because, yeah, they *could* do videos themselves...but you've got such a distinct style & approach, they really just want to see it done by someone who actually knows what they're doing :)
Keep up the good work--myself, I think I could watch you do critiques on just about anything. That free-wheeling piece on your history with 'Ghost Story', for example, was great stuff. :D I look forward to your next upload!
The other issue is that each of these typically takes around a month to do, and I think of new ones faster than that, so I'm always behind on my own list of possibilities. I know I'm doing Rise of Skywalker next, but after that, there's about five possibilities competing for what's next.
The movie just seemed like a 2 hour music video with lots of eye candy. As an aside, not all movies have to be exactly one kind of film that has to be socially progressive, with a positive message and even the villains can't be bigots or misogynists. Even if you made a film that objectifies women with female actors that want to be objectified for an audience that wants to objectify women then that is fine. Like porn and strippers. There are movies for all tastes, even unrealistic romcoms where men chase down a woman who rejects them to confess they will change everything about themselves for her as if men have no redeeming personality of their own.
No, not all movies have to have a social conscience (nor do they), but if someone wants to say something with a film, that's fine, too. I don't feel oppressed by the existence of films with ideas with which I disagree.
Oh lord, you really went off the feminist deep end towards the last bit of the video. Why get so hung up on some people not liking it? Stick to analyzing the film and spend a wee bit less time complaining about the big mean feminists who have their own opinions. Please stop whining.
I'm not "hung up." "Please stop whining" could be equally applied to either yourself or Anita Sarkeesian, who acts like she represents all of feminism. I found the polarized responses to this film one of the more interesting factors about it, so thanks, but I'll stick to whatever interests me.