The FAQ is vague on their reasoning re: the digital triggers, but the "read between the lines" interpretation I have is that it was to keep costs down, and that they foresaw that most people would be using this on Switch (a console with no analogue triggers) and for games where analogue triggers are irrelevant or even undesirable (e.g. emulators, fighting games). _That said,_ I'm with you in that no analogue triggers is a blow to compatibility with not just 3D Control Pad titles but also titles on PS3 and PC! It doesn't bother me _that_ much since I don't often play games where the analogue input from triggers is used, but it's still bad for something that could be used as a general purpose controller.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they did this to keep costs down, they could have passed that savings on to us. This is a $50 controller and, with the significant compatibility issues when in '3D Pad Mode', I don't feel the cost is worth it.
At one time they teased a recreation of the Saturn 3D control pad. I'm not sure if it's still in the works, but if so it would probably be Nights compatible.
@@msd5808 The Twitter has been pretty consistent on saying they never announced a 3D Control Pad repro whenever someone posts those images that've been going around, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence they've announced it. I think you may've gotten tricked. Though that said, the upcoming Dreamcast controller repro will likely work as a good subsititute; owing to it gaining a 6 button layout and the Saturn's d-pad.
@@LonelySpaceDetective I found an old Gamespot article from 2019 showing the news ("Retro-Bit Showcases A Wave Of Sega Genesis And Saturn Accessories At CES 2019") But they were probably just showing a vintage 3D pad on display and had not made a recreation yet and later nixxed the idea due to it being a niche market (only one analog stick, large size).
I wish they’d make a replica 3D analogue controller. The same as the original, wired, but maybe with a modern style analogue stick. I’d buy that controller in a heartbeat.
I'd use an adapter translator for a dreamcast controller, that fit my hands perfectly unlike Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft of the time. The Dreamcast is the last console I ever got even
I was waiting for years for this controller to finally have something other than the Hyperkin Duke as the perfect jack of all trades emulation controller (six face buttons, dual analog sticks, and analog triggers), and when I learned that there was no analog for the triggers (not to mention my experience with four of Retrobit's digital Saturn controllers dying within a month of purchase), I had to give up. Duke for life it is. Nobody wants to make a competing product.
No Analog Triggers is a complete deal breaker especially for 3D Control Pad games or even Dreamcast use. I also preferred the earlier larger Analog Stick design they showed.
I really wish 8BitDo made such a controller. All five Retro-bit controllers I've used had a connectivity or manufacturing problem, while my many 8BitDo controllers and arcade sticks have been flawless in operation.
For sure. I sent back all my Retro-bit controllers due to sticking buttons, inconsistent responses and incredibly cheap manufacturing. The 8BitDo? Once in my hand it was like I'd traveled back to 1997. That's how Sega controllers really felt. Tight, crisp w/ well damped buttons/dpad. I randomly found my old Saturn 3D pads much later at my parent's which confirmed it.
I agree, there's something weird about the retro bit Saturn controller. The dpad and casing just doesn't feel the same, maybe they used different materials to make it? I'm definitely a fan of the 8bitdo lineup especially the M30.
I think you managed to prove that the D-pad is exceptional, but it's really a shame the analog sticks are so tiny, and that there shoulder buttons are not analog. Still, this could be a great choice for many of us.
Your page has given me so much love and admiration for the Saturn. I have both an OG Japanese Saturn model 1 and an American model 2 with/Fenrir for emulation. It's a shame I missed out on this console when I was playing on PS1 and N64 back in the day
I had a Saturn back in the day but was too involved in the progress of the industry at the time into 3D games to appreciate much of what the Saturn had to offer. I ended up missing out on a lot because I felt the PS had an edge and loved games like Tekken 2 & 3, Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo. Sega Lord X and the guys over at Shiro have brought me back to the Saturn and I've been loving it so much. I still have both a Saturn and a PS1 and play the Saturn easily 10x more than my PS1. I've also invested way more into my Saturn with a Satiator, Pseudo Saturn Kai and games.
My best friend was the sega boy and he wore the badge proud, I loved loaning him my super nintendo with all my games so I could get his megadrive, he had a saturn on launch day here in the UK and I was totally blown away, same when he got his playstation.
Thanks for the honest review Sega Lord. My heart is broken that it cannot be a true replacement for the Sega Saturn Analog Pad. Especially after such a long wait. ;;
After nearly 8 years of waiting, I was really hyped for the Saturn Pro Controller, but this showing from Retro-Bit is simply unacceptable. They’re so hit or miss with their controllers and it’s especially painful to see that this is a miss.
Very disappointing company that feeds on nostalgia dumbos like us. They need to be demanded better quality especially on the firmware of their controllers...
The issue is you can't make everyone happy with a off spec controller. All controllers are built around the four button SNES layout. Retro bit made the six button layout as universally viable as they could. Yes analog triggers would have been nice but it would also have been harder to use them in this form Factor. the controller is great and I've been using it with Dreamcast via the Brooks wingman SD adapter and having a great time with it and zero issues. Also it's important to note retro bit is aware of the 3d problem and working to resolve it with a firmware update.
@@ForeverWinter1812 you just need to make your Saturn controller work well on a Saturn.. they're trying to make "everyone" happy to sell more, thats it.
@@Blehstor it does work well on Saturn. There's over 800 games worldwide on the Saturn. There are 69 3D pad compatible games. The biggest affected games outside of racing (which are less than 10 racing games) is Nights, (air breaking which I didn't know until last week) Duke nukem 3D, quake, powerslave, (you can't strafe). These issues can be fixed with a firmware update. No you won't have the exact precision and control as analog triggers, but if you only have the standard Saturn controller you would never know the difference. Also, Panzer dragoon Zwei, saga, and Burning Rangers work perfectly in 3D mode. So out of the 69 games not all of them are affected. Not trying to be mean or anything but this is not a game breaking problem that people are making it out to be.
@@ForeverWinter1812 The whole idea of buying this new controller is to make use of the analog function, if it's broken in games like Nights, then there really is no point in buying it for me. You're not being mean, I get your point, but having issues with basic games like Nights is not a good quality control sign.
Thank you VERY much for this review. Sad to see after all this time Retro-Bit majorly dropped the ball by not including analog triggers. Seriously what were they thinking??? /smh
Yeah, my personal interpretation of their reasoning (trying to read between the lines) is that they expected most people to use this on Switch, or for games that otherwise don't use analogue input from triggers. Probably wanted to keep costs down, too. That said, it's still a blow to overall compatibility with PS3 and PC titles for something that could have otherwise been a great general purpose controller. I don't play many games where the analogue input of triggers is used so it doesn't bother me _that_ much, but it's still stupid.
@@SegaLordXNah, they absolutey weren't aiming to please the PC crowd, there are too many glaring ommisions with regards to PC/switch players. The mirrored inputs make it impossible to even emulate retro games with a proper sega/saturn layout. No macros to change button assigments for common layouts for moder fighters either. D-input is gimped (still suffers from mirrored inputs). No wired mode for pc via usb-c, and no analog triggers. No way to manually turn off the controller once done playing. This is the one of those great ideas, ruined by poor execution. It should have been a one stop shop for controlling everything, but due to compromise, ultimately excells at nothing. 😢
Funnily enough I was looking at this as an alternative fightpad, and hearing that the dpad and buttons are good and great to hear. The sticks are just a bonus and I don’t play any games with analogue triggers. I’ll be sure to pick this up, so thanks for the review!
This controller is something Ive been excited about for years. I don't super mind the analog sticks but the lack of analog triggers is unfortunately a deal breaker for me :/ Hopefully RetroBit can learn from this and eventually put out a version with proper triggers
I think they said somewhere that the lack of analogue triggers was to keep costs within budget, so if they _do_ happen it'll likely be in a more "premium" model. Though honestly, I'd have been willing to pay even 10 more dollars if it meant full compatibility with PC titles and emulators that use analogue input from triggers (and uh, better 3D Control Pad compatibility but I actually didn't get it for real Saturn hardware).
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they actually said that, I call bs. They're just saturating the market with half baked products and using initial buyers as Beta testers. I would have easily been willing to pay an extra few bucks for a properly developed product, but honestly I don't think I'll be interested by the time retrobit figures it out.
I’m planning to buy one for myself and use it with my Steam Deck. Yes, I’m aware it doesn’t connect directly to the unit (I’ve struggled connecting Bluetooth controllers to it) and needs a dock to accept USB controllers. When I heard how well it works with the PC, that gave me confidence in that regard. Not gonna use it as a replacement for 3D analog though because I’m gonna use my unit for USB mostly. Hope it works with the Wingman FGC.
Great review! I feel like this controller is really intended for a *very specific* user; providing nostalgia when used with games originally available on the Saturn (like playing Capcom games on Switch, PC, PS) and offering an analog stick option when used with an original Saturn console. It doesn't seem to be intending to replicate the 3D controller functionality, but I can see why that would frustrate some (or many) potential customers. Evidently the design is an intentional compromise, trying to mimic an original pad aesthetic, while adding modern functions, much like the SNES analog stick controller trend. I can't help thinking that at some point there will be a "V2" with analog triggers, possibly extending the bottom edge of the controller to give more depth for triggers, the way a PS2 or Dreamcast controller does. I think some customers would just like a Saturn port wired version (cheaper, no thick battery needed) of this with analog triggers, and would be able to live with the small dual analog sticks as they are. Or even just a 3D controller replica. When it comes to something like Daytona or Sega Rally, can you not just configure the right analog stick to be gas/brake like Gran Turismo on PS or the game doesn't allow that?
That depends on if the Saturn even acknowledges the right stick. Keep in mind that the original 3D Control Pad only had one analog stick. I'm going to assume at this point that Retro-bit did not attempt to program twin-stick functionality for the all ONE games that peripheral supported (Virtual On, of course).
so glad I got this controller...man...the sega saturn controller is an underrated masterpiece of a controller its so wonderful and smooth and so tight and precise no controller can compare bar NONE...
I own a Retrobit controller for the Switch in the "likeness" of an N64 controller and it has worked well for me. A shame that it wasn't as good for the Saturn fans :(
Can’t understand, how a company or person can put so much time and effort in a device just to miss a very important function…. My hope is on Retro Fighter and a design similar to the 3D control pad, I miss it.
I wanted this to be a home-run because I really like the digital Retrobit Saturn controllers. I appreciate that they look and feel exactly like the originals, but also provide flexibility to be used on other platforms. For example, I have one permanently plugged into my PC for home brew development and emulation. I have 3 more for my actual Saturn, because honestly my original controllers are pretty worn out, and the chords are pretty damn short. But a controller that doesn’t actually work for the original games and hardware.. I don’t understand. Saturn Dave was hoping it could be a firmware update? Maybe? But that doesn’t sound promising. Maybe this has another intended purpose. Perhaps they thought that the Saturn market was so small for this device, it wasn’t worth cost of analog triggers. Maybe they thought the hall-effect sensors were a draw from other gamers that are tired of shitty resistive sticks - but the Saturn 3D pad pioneered that technology 20 years ago. I own 2 of them. Maybe it was aimed more towards gamers who liked the Saturn but also want that controller feel on a modern console. Which still doesn’t make sense because the crossover has to be tiny. That Venn-Diagram overlap is like what, ten people? I might still pick one up anyway to use on my PC (yeah I’m one of those ten people). I’ve played a few modern games with the digital version, and it was basically perfect except for only having one directional control (makes me wonder if analog controls are even worth it). I want to see more from Retrobit, they are supporting a niche with a niche - but I don’t understand this product at all vs the intended audience.
idk I feel like you're underselling the amount of people who want a general purpose controller but with Genesis/Saturn-like form factor; I know I and a friend of mine wanted a controller like that and this kind of controller is great for fighting games, though to be fair I think also Retro-Bit really underestimated the amount of people who wanted this for real Saturn hardware. They have actually elaborated on why digital triggers are used in the FAQ, though not in the clearest terms. My interpretation is, well, basically what you assumed: They expected most people to be buying it for the Switch or for titles that don't use analogue input from triggers, like fighting games. I think they said somewhere it was to stay within budget as well, but I might be just assuming that. That said, I agree that it's stupid, and not just because it sacrifices full compatibility with 3D Control Pad titles; it also hurts compatibility with PS3 and PC titles! And I say that as someone who doesn't play many games that use analogue input from triggers! One last thing, I can confirm that they are aware of the 3D Control Pad emulation issues and are looking into it, though as far as I know it's up in the air whether the next firmware update will address this or if it'll be a later one, and if the problems will ever be _fully_ ironed out.
The Saturn pro controller is pretty much made for the people who wanted the Sega version of the super Nintendo controller with analog sticks. I've been using it almost exclusively on PS4 playing the Yakuza series. Digital triggers were the correct choice overall. There's only 10 games at most that require analog for precision, and they're all racing games. I've talked with retro a bit and they're currently finishing up the update that should resolve all the issues. They're hoping to have it out before New Year's.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveI agree. It seems like retro-bit is out of touch with a greater part of the market and gaming community that is looking for a universal controller for modern and retro gaming. I would have bought 10 of these for PC, if they were executed properly.
I definitely enjoy it on the switch. That way I can represent the Saturn while I play. Also I know many aren’t a fan of this game but Sonic 3D Blast special stages are also completely broken with the anolog controls. Sonic starts moving on his own and you can’t stop him. I had to switch back to D-pad
Tiger uppercut. I had no idea that there were as many as 70 games that supported "3D" controls. My brother owned a Saturn, and at the time we were a little young to be working, with a single parent family, we couldn't afford to buy peripherals beyond a 2nd standard gamepad. I had no idea at the time that the 3D gamepad existed.
As a Fighting Game player, I don't mind the Dogital Triggers, and I'm glad it feels smooth. I only wish it were Wired because of personal preference. Even still, I look forward to grabbing one myself one day.
Personally, I love the feel of the general Sega layout. Issue was that it’s not ideal for playing games that utilize analog sticks. I am think of getting this, though I am not using it for emulation, as the Saturn does not have any good games (Nights is alright)
Thank you for answering the 3d analog controller question that I had when I heard the announcement. I'm staying away. Seems like it was made more for people who want a Sega like controller to use on other systems, not for the Saturn.
I passed on this one, but the new Striker DC wireless and the Neo Geo CD wireless pads are on my list. I’ve always wanted to play Panzer Dragoon 2 in dual mission stick mode. The only game that supports that.
I've played that through emulation and it's terrible lol. The muscle memory didn't let me maneuver the dragon separated from the aim and I kept getting hit over and over. And I feel the dragon movement is too slow and limited with dual controls.
I wish they just published their prototype model because that's exactly what I wanted. I'm really let down with this. If a third party makes something similar / better I might just get that instead.
IIRC they talked about how the prototype design deviated too heavily from the original Saturn controller, or at least vaguely alluded to that. My conspiracy theory is that Sega stepped in and were like "yo you can't call this a Saturn controller, it's too different" and they had to redesign it. Though that said, the recessed design of the sticks offers a durability advantage. I'm perfectly fine with how the final design turned out, but I still wonder what we could have gotten.
I was just expecting what Sega Lord had to say about the triggers and I'm very sad about the result on the Saturn. I'll see this one as my fighting controller for the PC.
I just got these, very disappointed it isn't a full wireless NiGHTs pad replacement. I'd literally pay $20 more to have the analog triggers so it could work as one. But it feels amazing and is very nice at what it does.
Thanks for the review. I had pre-ordered this as I was hoping for it to be a wireless 3D circle pad, and had also planned to use it on my Genesis Minis... But those digital shoulder buttons is a huge disappointment and a deal breaker. So I've just cancelled my order. Thanks Sega Lord X, you've just saved me from wasting a bunch of money.
I’m probably gonna get this for my pc and switch. I already have the 3d controller pad for Saturn anyways. I do feel sorry for y’all who wanted it for use on your Saturn. Hopefully a better alternative comes your way!
I played many Megadrive Games for the first time this year and used the retrobit Megadrive Controller. I was very statisfied with it. So i was very curious about this Controller. Thanks for your honest testing. No Bluetooth, No analog shoulders and the tiny analog Sticks are the Deal breaker Here. But I'm honestly still very satisfied with the retrobit Megadrive Bluetooth Controller (:
I miss the 2x3 layout. Don't mind at all that the triggers aren't analog. Be interesting to see if this works well with android. Okay, the 3d pad issue is kinda major. Maybe they map L/R to the right stick?
They apparently have put some consideration into using the right stick to emulate the triggers' analog input, but it's not a thing in the release day firmware. Maybe it'll be in an update.
@@SegaLordXwell I use it for my Android via a Samsung Dex dock, which gives you regular USB ports, so I can plug in the receiver and use it that way. And it works great, with the game on my moniter via hdmi through the same dock. But otherwise, without a dock or a USB C to USB adapter, there's no way to Bluetooth to it. Gotta connect the receiver in one way or another
This wasn't actually based on the original japanese Saturn pad, which was a very mellow dark gray - the colour scheme is instead based on the original european and american model of Saturn, as well as the white (really more like beige) controller being based on the later revisions of the japanese Saturn pads. It's a shame they screwed up with the analog trigger support, they clearly didn't bother testing this controller much at all, if they even care - it's hard to believe they cared much about the 3D control pad functionality if they didn't even realize this was an issue. Then again, I don't think a controller with such small sticks can surpass the original controller, that stick is still king. As a switch controller, I can see it being absolutely fantastic since the switch has no analog trigger support in the first place!
They should have gone the route that Retro-Fighters did with their BattlerGCs - the analog triggers switch to digital as soon as it's converted from the GCN receiver to the USB receiver. I pre-ordered one of these and was immediately disappointed due to it not being compatible with Nights.
11:41 - disappointed to say the least. I was really looking forward to this controller and supporting this company more (I love the original Saturn wireless pad and use it often while gaming on my Saturn). Looks like it's off to Ebay to buy the OG 3D controller like I originally was going to do before finding out about this device. 😔
Forget the lack of analog, what peeved me the most is that the device didn't include gyro for the Switch games. That way I can't quite use it as a replacement controller I could use for both standard gaming and fighting games.
Thanks for this review man, I've been checking for this controller for awhile and been thinking about getting it for my PS5 to use with my Brookman converter for fighting games. My usb wired SS controller doesn't work, but I was told this one would. Sucks it doesnt work 100% with the actual Sega Saturn system though.
Thanks for the review! I had been keeping my eyes out for this controller, and I appreciate how you tried it out with so many different systems. You showed it working with PS3 games, but I wonder how compatible it is. I have Retrobit’s 8 button genesis controller, and it’s not accepted by any of the PS1 games I have on the system, and even some of the PS3 fighting games don’t work with it, which is a shame, because it’s a pretty nice fighting game controller for my PC.
Shoulda known Sega Lord was gonna tell the truth. Yet another exceptional vid Good Sir. I think Retro Bit needs to add software to tweak the button layout. Most controllers at such a level have adjustment software or a switch embedded to let you choose what shoulder/face buttons you'd prefer to use, but retro bit has nothing of the sort. This is essential for me, as I am using this controller as a go to for SF 6, with the Brook wingman FGC. Sounds like you could use that sort of feature for analog games on Saturn. So hopefully a fix is coming.
Wish they can bring back the 3D Controller. Maybe make a wireless version or a USB version. or an adapter where you can change the Saturn connector with a wireless adapter or USB.
Thank you for this great review. It’s a shame that the shoulder pads are not working in analog mode. I know it’s a far stretch, but could it work as a replacement to the twin sticks controller?
Thank you for testing the 3D games. The joycon looking analogs and the actual array with the L/R/ZL/ZR is the deakbreaker for me. I don't want to let go of the awesome meaty shoulders of the standard saturn controller, the L and R on here look too tiny for my liking. I strongly feel they should've made the shell even bigger so they could've had both real console-quality analogs, the real saturn shoulders and good analog triggers all in one. As it is right now, this controller's appeal looks far too limited.
This seems like a missed opportunity to me. Why settle for digital triggers when the controller has analog sticks? Analog triggers are really important when playing Lobotomy's shooters on Saturn.
From my reading of their FAQ, they apparently predicted that most people would be using it on Switch or otherwise for titles that don't use the analogue input from triggers; such as fighting games. I expect it was to keep costs down as well. I still find it dumb however, while I don't play many games where analogue input from triggers is used it's still a blow to compatibility with not just 3D Control Pad titles but also PS3 and PC titles.
@@LonelySpaceDetective I hope the packaging and product pages on various store sites make it clear how bad the actual Saturn 3D Controller compatibility is. Being a Sega fan is crazy. This is the kind of trash we get. It's at its very worst when used with Sega ANYTHING. Meanwhile, it primarily targets platforms that have the exact opposite button labels. This product is an enigma. Who wanted what this ended up being?
@@kubev Random addition, since I re-read your original comment and realized something I could have mentioned: At the least, they have apparently considered having a mode where the right stick emulates the analogue triggers, but it didn't make it into the release firmware, and honestly I wouldn't consider it ideal anyway even if they do eventually add it.
@@LonelySpaceDetective Yeah, that's definitely not ideal. I did used to play GRID on PC with a similar setup, as I only had a Logitech F310 (which has dual sticks but not analog triggers) at the time, but I'm not going back to that. Haha.
@@SegaLordXthat’s fair, but then why not just play them with a digital controller? It makes no sense to buy this for a Saturn. There’s not *that* many Saturn games that even fully use the analog controls, so it’s not like they couldn’t have tested this.
I'll probaby be returning mine, unless theres a firmware update to address some of the issues. I've been following the development of this since 2018. Conceptually this control pad is a great idea, but retro-bit fumbled the execution in ways that are hard to excuse with a 5 year+ head start: - Its marketed as a 10 button gamepad, but upon launch we find out its 'functionally' an 8 button controller. - The instructions contain typos, and reference functions that dont exist for this controller - No way of changing bindings to something practical for most common usage cases for modern gaming OR retro emulation - D-input implementation has been fumbled, as it allows for 128 separate inputs from a control surface - its comes with a usb-c cable/port, but can't be used in wired mode - There is currently no way to manually turn off the controller, which will reduce the longevity of the batter quicker. (Probably by design) - Dropped the ball on having analog triggers - Beta testing was poor, as there are a number of saturn games that exhibit bugs with regards to use the analog sticks. While some saturn software won't respond at all. These are issues that could and should have been addressed before launch. I would have litterally bought 10 of these if it weren't for these obvious and glaring oversights. I also would have easily been willing to pay a higher price point for analog triggers. Hopefully 8-bitdo picks up thier slack.
I do hope that if we ever do get an adequate replacement for the 3D controller that it comes in grey. You have no idea how much it bugs me that Sega never made a 3D Control Pad in the original model 1 grey and blue colour scheme to match my preferred version of the console.
I use the existing digital-only wireless Retrobit Saturn controller for my Saturn console gaming most of the time on a real Saturn, and I thought "this was what I have been waiting for!". I have a Saturn 3d controller but it is bulky and has a wire, so I only use that now and then when needed. So I was waiting for an update to the good retrobit Saturn wireless controller to finally have an analog stick. Needless to say, this device appears to be very disappointing. I was going to blindly order it as I thought "how could this not be great?". I am very glad I saw this review before pulling the trigger (no pun intended). The small analog sticks (really not good), and unplayable games for the analog triggers are deal breakers. This is a slippery slope of third party licenses.
I am exactly like you, bought it for a wireless replacement to the NiGHTs pad. Kinda disappointed at it's support on the actual Saturn since I can't play NiGHTs with it properly. But it's a very very nice controller otherwise, I'll use it as a general purpose controller for MiSTer.
New outro! That's very cool :D But the recommended content creators haven't created in a while: - sega saturn dave hasn't posted in a year. - Saturn Junkyard and southernsegagent haven't posted in two years. - PlaySegaSaturn and pandamoniungr can't be found anymore. Isn't it time to update that list?
Retrobit has wireless saturn pads without analog sticks or dual shoulder buttons. I've gone through two of those in two years after LIGHT USAGE because the internal backplate of the dpad has a tendency to snap under any amount of sustained pressure. I've googled around and this is common. If they haven't fixed that issue, I would caution against buying this unless you're okay with having to open the thing up and superglue its parts back together.
man you don't know how close I was to picking one of these up! It was *going* to be in lieu of the 3D analog controller since I assumed it supported all the features, *but* if it can't even do NIGHTS correctly (yknow the game that put the damn thing on the map to begin with) correctly, then what the hell are they even doing?! guess I'll boot it off my amazon wishlist and hope for a decent deal on an OG 3D analog pad. or suppose spring for the brook adapter.
Surely a twin stick mode was essential. So it basically doesn't work worth a crap with anything 3d pad, which frankly is the whole point of the device.
I picked one of these up and really wanted to like it but so far I don't. Nights was one of the games I wanted it for and it is a bummer that it doesn't work correctly for it. I have the clear blue Retro-bit wireless Saturn controller and like it a lot better.
So the verdict seems to be that the Sega Saturn styled controller is fine as long as you don't use it with Sega products. By the way, I've been here long enough to know that even though the ending of your video is different, the song is the same as it was a few years ago!
As someone who emulates everything this seems like a decent purchase, the lack of analogue shoulder buttons is a bit of a headscratcher though. Not a deal breaker for me though.
I wonder if this video needs an update with the new firmware updates? I have heard that they fixed the analog stick issues with Saturn titles that use the 3D Controller, and it functions as it should.
a somewhat recent interview of a Retrobit rep at some game show seemed to imply that Sega wanted these at a certain price point and so they could only do so much. I think it's stupid personally and if they wanted to make them the ultimate controller to equal or better quality than mainstream consoles, they could price them higher. I don't think it would be unreasonable to give all the features everyone seems to be asking for (analog triggers; better analog sticks--I think that seems to be the consensus so far) for a higher price. Console controllers seem to be $70 or more commonly nowadays, which I don't feel is merited b/c the analogs are not hall effect and I don't think the build quality is that great (in terms of dpads and analogs) compared to many older console controllers that are still going strong decades later after purchase. If RB and Sega were really concerned w/making the best controllers possible, they should be durable (at least for 5 years of heavy usage). I'm on the fence about this controller and am more of a wired player so will wait for that version. I don't know why no one that has reviewed these yet have tried to see if they could replace the dpads with one from the original saturn pads. That being said, I doubt this controller could survive many of my occasional SF5 hours long marathons (dpad would break b/c it's not as durable as the original saturn model 2 pad I'd bet). I also bet I'd break the analog sticks rather quickly before reaching round 21 on Robotron 2084, which is another game I use to test the quality of my controllers. I think the shorter throw, lower profile of analog sticks should be the standard aimed for in future controller designs, but at this point in time, I don't think there exists any current design that can properly provide an adequate level of precision or durability in this regard. The switch analog sticks are the worst in Nintendo's history imho (cheap and flimsy feeling) and one of the reasons I was not interested in the getting a Switch despite its many benefits (one of their best game libraries ever; portability). So RB incorporating these into the Saturn Pro design with hall-effect is moot if the sticks themselves are easily breakable.
Looking at the control map, it seems that C and Z get mapped to L and R in Dinput and Xinput. This means that using those as discrete buttons with their own mappings is not do-able. In my opinion, this is a deal breaker. The end user should be able to map each one of their keys as they as they please. This forced duplication limits the options of the end user. Just thinking of this for emulation on PC and MiSTer. Example, suppose I want to play N64 games with this pad using the most obvious 1:1 mapping. Now a pair of my C buttons is on the shoulders when I probably want something else there for easy access. With regards to the lack of analog triggers, did you try using the right stick as your throttle? Racing games made on platforms with sticks that lacked analog triggers would often allow you to map analog throttle to right-stick forwards and brake to right-stick rearwards. It wouldn't be to tough for Retro-Bit to implement something like this mapping via a firmware update, if it isn't there already.
It's really frustrating, just having analogue triggers and maybe better sticks would have made this product ten times better but as for now it is hold back by this design flaw. I still think I might get it, as I wanted it more for mega drive games with the modern adjustments as being a big bonus, but I wish they made this just slightly better.
Playing on the Saturn was so frustrating trying to get Daytona Circuit edition to work. I even remapped the controls and it still didn't work. Duke Nukem, Quake and Powerslave were fun. but not having to ability to strafe really takes away from it. I did try my Genesis mini 1. and I couldn't even get it to pair. Hopefully they release a firmware update
Excellent review thanks. Never rated retrobit stuff to be honest. I have the original saturn wireless pads and they are frustrating to use, they discharge so quickly. Every time I boot up the Saturn the pads are dead despite having left them with a full charge, 9 times out of 10 I just reach for my old wired pad.
I will cancel my 3 preorders.. I want this to be the ultimate Saturn controller.. dont mind about PC and other platforms. And if it's broken on major titles then its no good to me
If Retro-Bit was allowed to make that Sega Saturn Pro Controller slightly wide enough then the Dual Analog sticks could be a bit further apart like the PS4 controller. Otherwise the dual analog sticks are so close that playing games that uses these alot while using this controller can easily clash our thumbs without even trying & It's best to just play games that mostly makes less use of the DA-sticks OR Games that mostly use the left analog stick on this controller for those certain/specific games, IMO. I play games that uses DA-sticks alot using different controllers & Trying to play DA-stick games with this SSPC isn't going to cut it. I placed concave rubber grips on the DA's that's made for the nintendo switch joycons as they fit well on this SSPC where there's no need to mod a different set of sticks on 'em. I never put these on the N-Switch joycons since I always use N-Switch pro controller playing games on it. Some of the games I played on PC with the 2 LED light setting (Start+B) on the SSPC, There seems to be a random left analog stick-drift problems that happens along with many who noticed this while using the 3D control mode with this controller while playing certain Sega Saturn games. Hopefully the firmware update Retro-Bit working on will address/fix these problems, etc.
It’s a crying shame really, most people are gonna buy this controller because it’s a more accessible (and affordable) alternative for the 3D pad. It kinda feels like retrobit designed the Saturn pro controller for the Nintendo switch as the switch now haves a small hand of Saturn remakes and such.
How did they make this without analog triggers. Such a huge oversight... Nights compatibility was an absolute necessity
The FAQ is vague on their reasoning re: the digital triggers, but the "read between the lines" interpretation I have is that it was to keep costs down, and that they foresaw that most people would be using this on Switch (a console with no analogue triggers) and for games where analogue triggers are irrelevant or even undesirable (e.g. emulators, fighting games).
_That said,_ I'm with you in that no analogue triggers is a blow to compatibility with not just 3D Control Pad titles but also titles on PS3 and PC! It doesn't bother me _that_ much since I don't often play games where the analogue input from triggers is used, but it's still bad for something that could be used as a general purpose controller.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they did this to keep costs down, they could have passed that savings on to us. This is a $50 controller and, with the significant compatibility issues when in '3D Pad Mode', I don't feel the cost is worth it.
At one time they teased a recreation of the Saturn 3D control pad. I'm not sure if it's still in the works, but if so it would probably be Nights compatible.
@@msd5808 The Twitter has been pretty consistent on saying they never announced a 3D Control Pad repro whenever someone posts those images that've been going around, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence they've announced it. I think you may've gotten tricked.
Though that said, the upcoming Dreamcast controller repro will likely work as a good subsititute; owing to it gaining a 6 button layout and the Saturn's d-pad.
@@LonelySpaceDetective I found an old Gamespot article from 2019 showing the news ("Retro-Bit Showcases A Wave Of Sega Genesis And Saturn Accessories At CES 2019") But they were probably just showing a vintage 3D pad on display and had not made a recreation yet and later nixxed the idea due to it being a niche market (only one analog stick, large size).
I wish they’d make a replica 3D analogue controller. The same as the original, wired, but maybe with a modern style analogue stick. I’d buy that controller in a heartbeat.
I'd use an adapter translator for a dreamcast controller, that fit my hands perfectly unlike Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft of the time. The Dreamcast is the last console I ever got even
And a second analog stick.
Wired or you can unplug the cable and plug in wireless.
@@hakimmika2379 if it was wireless, maybe. No point putting a second analogue stick on a controller wired for a Sega Saturn.
Right on that. I don't know what was so hard about doing that.
I was waiting for years for this controller to finally have something other than the Hyperkin Duke as the perfect jack of all trades emulation controller (six face buttons, dual analog sticks, and analog triggers), and when I learned that there was no analog for the triggers (not to mention my experience with four of Retrobit's digital Saturn controllers dying within a month of purchase), I had to give up. Duke for life it is. Nobody wants to make a competing product.
No Analog Triggers is a complete deal breaker especially for 3D Control Pad games or even Dreamcast use. I also preferred the earlier larger Analog Stick design they showed.
Another day with Sega Lord X keep the greatness coming
Thanks for the kind words.
@@SegaLordXno problem appreciate all you do for Sega for so many years
I really wish 8BitDo made such a controller. All five Retro-bit controllers I've used had a connectivity or manufacturing problem, while my many 8BitDo controllers and arcade sticks have been flawless in operation.
We need an M30 pro plus
Me too 😢
For sure. I sent back all my Retro-bit controllers due to sticking buttons, inconsistent responses and incredibly cheap manufacturing. The 8BitDo? Once in my hand it was like I'd traveled back to 1997. That's how Sega controllers really felt. Tight, crisp w/ well damped buttons/dpad. I randomly found my old Saturn 3D pads much later at my parent's which confirmed it.
I agree, there's something weird about the retro bit Saturn controller. The dpad and casing just doesn't feel the same, maybe they used different materials to make it? I'm definitely a fan of the 8bitdo lineup especially the M30.
100%
I think you managed to prove that the D-pad is exceptional, but it's really a shame the analog sticks are so tiny, and that there shoulder buttons are not analog. Still, this could be a great choice for many of us.
4:58 ah yes the true street fighter experience
*hAdOuKeN!11!!*
Your page has given me so much love and admiration for the Saturn. I have both an OG Japanese Saturn model 1 and an American model 2 with/Fenrir for emulation. It's a shame I missed out on this console when I was playing on PS1 and N64 back in the day
I had a Saturn back in the day but was too involved in the progress of the industry at the time into 3D games to appreciate much of what the Saturn had to offer. I ended up missing out on a lot because I felt the PS had an edge and loved games like Tekken 2 & 3, Ridge Racer and Gran Turismo. Sega Lord X and the guys over at Shiro have brought me back to the Saturn and I've been loving it so much. I still have both a Saturn and a PS1 and play the Saturn easily 10x more than my PS1. I've also invested way more into my Saturn with a Satiator, Pseudo Saturn Kai and games.
My best friend was the sega boy and he wore the badge proud, I loved loaning him my super nintendo with all my games so I could get his megadrive, he had a saturn on launch day here in the UK and I was totally blown away, same when he got his playstation.
Thanks for the honest review Sega Lord. My heart is broken that it cannot be a true replacement for the Sega Saturn Analog Pad. Especially after such a long wait. ;;
Right, over 5 years... 😑
After nearly 8 years of waiting, I was really hyped for the Saturn Pro Controller, but this showing from Retro-Bit is simply unacceptable. They’re so hit or miss with their controllers and it’s especially painful to see that this is a miss.
Very disappointing company that feeds on nostalgia dumbos like us. They need to be demanded better quality especially on the firmware of their controllers...
The issue is you can't make everyone happy with a off spec controller. All controllers are built around the four button SNES layout. Retro bit made the six button layout as universally viable as they could. Yes analog triggers would have been nice but it would also have been harder to use them in this form Factor. the controller is great and I've been using it with Dreamcast via the Brooks wingman SD adapter and having a great time with it and zero issues.
Also it's important to note retro bit is aware of the 3d problem and working to resolve it with a firmware update.
@@ForeverWinter1812 you just need to make your Saturn controller work well on a Saturn.. they're trying to make "everyone" happy to sell more, thats it.
@@Blehstor it does work well on Saturn.
There's over 800 games worldwide on the Saturn. There are 69 3D pad compatible games. The biggest affected games outside of racing (which are less than 10 racing games) is Nights, (air breaking which I didn't know until last week) Duke nukem 3D, quake, powerslave, (you can't strafe). These issues can be fixed with a firmware update. No you won't have the exact precision and control as analog triggers, but if you only have the standard Saturn controller you would never know the difference. Also, Panzer dragoon Zwei, saga, and Burning Rangers work perfectly in 3D mode. So out of the 69 games not all of them are affected. Not trying to be mean or anything but this is not a game breaking problem that people are making it out to be.
@@ForeverWinter1812 The whole idea of buying this new controller is to make use of the analog function, if it's broken in games like Nights, then there really is no point in buying it for me. You're not being mean, I get your point, but having issues with basic games like Nights is not a good quality control sign.
Thank you VERY much for this review. Sad to see after all this time Retro-Bit majorly dropped the ball by not including analog triggers. Seriously what were they thinking??? /smh
I imagine they are aiming this squarely at the PC/Switch crowds. The Saturn receiver was simply an homage to the design.
Yeah, my personal interpretation of their reasoning (trying to read between the lines) is that they expected most people to use this on Switch, or for games that otherwise don't use analogue input from triggers. Probably wanted to keep costs down, too.
That said, it's still a blow to overall compatibility with PS3 and PC titles for something that could have otherwise been a great general purpose controller. I don't play many games where the analogue input of triggers is used so it doesn't bother me _that_ much, but it's still stupid.
@@SegaLordXNah, they absolutey weren't aiming to please the PC crowd, there are too many glaring ommisions with regards to PC/switch players. The mirrored inputs make it impossible to even emulate retro games with a proper sega/saturn layout. No macros to change button assigments for common layouts for moder fighters either. D-input is gimped (still suffers from mirrored inputs). No wired mode for pc via usb-c, and no analog triggers. No way to manually turn off the controller once done playing. This is the one of those great ideas, ruined by poor execution. It should have been a one stop shop for controlling everything, but due to compromise, ultimately excells at nothing. 😢
Funnily enough I was looking at this as an alternative fightpad, and hearing that the dpad and buttons are good and great to hear. The sticks are just a bonus and I don’t play any games with analogue triggers. I’ll be sure to pick this up, so thanks for the review!
This controller is something Ive been excited about for years. I don't super mind the analog sticks but the lack of analog triggers is unfortunately a deal breaker for me :/ Hopefully RetroBit can learn from this and eventually put out a version with proper triggers
I think they said somewhere that the lack of analogue triggers was to keep costs within budget, so if they _do_ happen it'll likely be in a more "premium" model.
Though honestly, I'd have been willing to pay even 10 more dollars if it meant full compatibility with PC titles and emulators that use analogue input from triggers (and uh, better 3D Control Pad compatibility but I actually didn't get it for real Saturn hardware).
@@LonelySpaceDetective Oh same. I'd absolutely be willing to pay more for proper triggers
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveIf they actually said that, I call bs. They're just saturating the market with half baked products and using initial buyers as Beta testers. I would have easily been willing to pay an extra few bucks for a properly developed product, but honestly I don't think I'll be interested by the time retrobit figures it out.
Oh wow @SegaLordX! I just noticed the outro change. That is awesome, especially the Panzer Dragoon part!
Fantastic Sega Controller! I love it... I want it... in my opinion, one of the best retro-controllers I've ever seen!
Indeed it might be compatible for switch but it’s also for computer and smartphones and Xbox app and steam compatible too.
I’m planning to buy one for myself and use it with my Steam Deck. Yes, I’m aware it doesn’t connect directly to the unit (I’ve struggled connecting Bluetooth controllers to it) and needs a dock to accept USB controllers. When I heard how well it works with the PC, that gave me confidence in that regard. Not gonna use it as a replacement for 3D analog though because I’m gonna use my unit for USB mostly. Hope it works with the Wingman FGC.
Great review! I feel like this controller is really intended for a *very specific* user; providing nostalgia when used with games originally available on the Saturn (like playing Capcom games on Switch, PC, PS) and offering an analog stick option when used with an original Saturn console. It doesn't seem to be intending to replicate the 3D controller functionality, but I can see why that would frustrate some (or many) potential customers.
Evidently the design is an intentional compromise, trying to mimic an original pad aesthetic, while adding modern functions, much like the SNES analog stick controller trend. I can't help thinking that at some point there will be a "V2" with analog triggers, possibly extending the bottom edge of the controller to give more depth for triggers, the way a PS2 or Dreamcast controller does. I think some customers would just like a Saturn port wired version (cheaper, no thick battery needed) of this with analog triggers, and would be able to live with the small dual analog sticks as they are. Or even just a 3D controller replica.
When it comes to something like Daytona or Sega Rally, can you not just configure the right analog stick to be gas/brake like Gran Turismo on PS or the game doesn't allow that?
That depends on if the Saturn even acknowledges the right stick. Keep in mind that the original 3D Control Pad only had one analog stick.
I'm going to assume at this point that Retro-bit did not attempt to program twin-stick functionality for the all ONE games that peripheral supported (Virtual On, of course).
so glad I got this controller...man...the sega saturn controller is an underrated masterpiece of a controller its so wonderful and smooth and so tight and precise no controller can compare bar NONE...
I own a Retrobit controller for the Switch in the "likeness" of an N64 controller and it has worked well for me. A shame that it wasn't as good for the Saturn fans :(
I just got a 6 player adapter and was about to check your channel for reviews of newer controllers. Perfect timing
This controller works so good! D-Pad and latency is top!
Can’t understand, how a company or person can put so much time and effort in a device just to miss a very important function…. My hope is on Retro Fighter and a design similar to the 3D control pad, I miss it.
Double receivers included is a huge win
Want to get your take on the recent announcements, Sega Lord! Thanks for the great content!
I'm working on it.
I wanted this to be a home-run because I really like the digital Retrobit Saturn controllers. I appreciate that they look and feel exactly like the originals, but also provide flexibility to be used on other platforms.
For example, I have one permanently plugged into my PC for home brew development and emulation. I have 3 more for my actual Saturn, because honestly my original controllers are pretty worn out, and the chords are pretty damn short.
But a controller that doesn’t actually work for the original games and hardware.. I don’t understand. Saturn Dave was hoping it could be a firmware update? Maybe? But that doesn’t sound promising.
Maybe this has another intended purpose. Perhaps they thought that the Saturn market was so small for this device, it wasn’t worth cost of analog triggers.
Maybe they thought the hall-effect sensors were a draw from other gamers that are tired of shitty resistive sticks - but the Saturn 3D pad pioneered that technology 20 years ago. I own 2 of them.
Maybe it was aimed more towards gamers who liked the Saturn but also want that controller feel on a modern console. Which still doesn’t make sense because the crossover has to be tiny. That Venn-Diagram overlap is like what, ten people?
I might still pick one up anyway to use on my PC (yeah I’m one of those ten people). I’ve played a few modern games with the digital version, and it was basically perfect except for only having one directional control (makes me wonder if analog controls are even worth it).
I want to see more from Retrobit, they are supporting a niche with a niche - but I don’t understand this product at all vs the intended audience.
idk I feel like you're underselling the amount of people who want a general purpose controller but with Genesis/Saturn-like form factor; I know I and a friend of mine wanted a controller like that and this kind of controller is great for fighting games, though to be fair I think also Retro-Bit really underestimated the amount of people who wanted this for real Saturn hardware.
They have actually elaborated on why digital triggers are used in the FAQ, though not in the clearest terms. My interpretation is, well, basically what you assumed: They expected most people to be buying it for the Switch or for titles that don't use analogue input from triggers, like fighting games. I think they said somewhere it was to stay within budget as well, but I might be just assuming that.
That said, I agree that it's stupid, and not just because it sacrifices full compatibility with 3D Control Pad titles; it also hurts compatibility with PS3 and PC titles! And I say that as someone who doesn't play many games that use analogue input from triggers!
One last thing, I can confirm that they are aware of the 3D Control Pad emulation issues and are looking into it, though as far as I know it's up in the air whether the next firmware update will address this or if it'll be a later one, and if the problems will ever be _fully_ ironed out.
The Saturn pro controller is pretty much made for the people who wanted the Sega version of the super Nintendo controller with analog sticks. I've been using it almost exclusively on PS4 playing the Yakuza series.
Digital triggers were the correct choice overall. There's only 10 games at most that require analog for precision, and they're all racing games. I've talked with retro a bit and they're currently finishing up the update that should resolve all the issues. They're hoping to have it out before New Year's.
@@LonelySpaceDetectiveI agree. It seems like retro-bit is out of touch with a greater part of the market and gaming community that is looking for a universal controller for modern and retro gaming. I would have bought 10 of these for PC, if they were executed properly.
I definitely enjoy it on the switch. That way I can represent the Saturn while I play. Also I know many aren’t a fan of this game but Sonic 3D Blast special stages are also completely broken with the anolog controls. Sonic starts moving on his own and you can’t stop him. I had to switch back to D-pad
Tiger uppercut.
I had no idea that there were as many as 70 games that supported "3D" controls. My brother owned a Saturn, and at the time we were a little young to be working, with a single parent family, we couldn't afford to buy peripherals beyond a 2nd standard gamepad. I had no idea at the time that the 3D gamepad existed.
As a Fighting Game player, I don't mind the Dogital Triggers, and I'm glad it feels smooth. I only wish it were Wired because of personal preference. Even still, I look forward to grabbing one myself one day.
Personally, I love the feel of the general Sega layout. Issue was that it’s not ideal for playing games that utilize analog sticks.
I am think of getting this, though I am not using it for emulation, as the Saturn does not have any good games (Nights is alright)
The new credits segment looks great!! ❤
Thank you for answering the 3d analog controller question that I had when I heard the announcement. I'm staying away. Seems like it was made more for people who want a Sega like controller to use on other systems, not for the Saturn.
Love the new outro! Feels like I haven't heard this song in forever…
Had a friend do the animation for me. It looks really good I think!
I love my purchase! I went in thinking I'll use this to play dreamcast and it worked like a charm! Awesome video!
Thanks for the breakdown. Might buy as a novelty, but you save3d me the headache of some serious troubleshooting.
I passed on this one, but the new Striker DC wireless and the Neo Geo CD wireless pads are on my list. I’ve always wanted to play Panzer Dragoon 2 in dual mission stick mode. The only game that supports that.
I have that Neo Geo CD controller, and I think it's absolutely fantastic. Can definitely recommend that one
I've played that through emulation and it's terrible lol. The muscle memory didn't let me maneuver the dragon separated from the aim and I kept getting hit over and over. And I feel the dragon movement is too slow and limited with dual controls.
I wish they just published their prototype model because that's exactly what I wanted. I'm really let down with this. If a third party makes something similar / better I might just get that instead.
IIRC they talked about how the prototype design deviated too heavily from the original Saturn controller, or at least vaguely alluded to that.
My conspiracy theory is that Sega stepped in and were like "yo you can't call this a Saturn controller, it's too different" and they had to redesign it. Though that said, the recessed design of the sticks offers a durability advantage.
I'm perfectly fine with how the final design turned out, but I still wonder what we could have gotten.
I was just expecting what Sega Lord had to say about the triggers and I'm very sad about the result on the Saturn. I'll see this one as my fighting controller for the PC.
I just got these, very disappointed it isn't a full wireless NiGHTs pad replacement. I'd literally pay $20 more to have the analog triggers so it could work as one. But it feels amazing and is very nice at what it does.
highlight of the year for this guy apparently 😂
So glad I cleaned out my local game store when they put 3D control pads on sale for 99 cents(!).
Thanks for the review. I had pre-ordered this as I was hoping for it to be a wireless 3D circle pad, and had also planned to use it on my Genesis Minis... But those digital shoulder buttons is a huge disappointment and a deal breaker. So I've just cancelled my order. Thanks Sega Lord X, you've just saved me from wasting a bunch of money.
Wish this had been an 8bitDo controller instead. Their devices have all been nearly flawless IMHO
I’m probably gonna get this for my pc and switch. I already have the 3d controller pad for Saturn anyways. I do feel sorry for y’all who wanted it for use on your Saturn. Hopefully a better alternative comes your way!
I played many Megadrive Games for the first time this year and used the retrobit Megadrive Controller. I was very statisfied with it. So i was very curious about this Controller. Thanks for your honest testing. No Bluetooth, No analog shoulders and the tiny analog Sticks are the Deal breaker Here. But I'm honestly still very satisfied with the retrobit Megadrive Bluetooth Controller (:
Nice thorough review! 👏
I miss the 2x3 layout. Don't mind at all that the triggers aren't analog. Be interesting to see if this works well with android.
Okay, the 3d pad issue is kinda major. Maybe they map L/R to the right stick?
They do not.
They apparently have put some consideration into using the right stick to emulate the triggers' analog input, but it's not a thing in the release day firmware. Maybe it'll be in an update.
@@SegaLordXwell I use it for my Android via a Samsung Dex dock, which gives you regular USB ports, so I can plug in the receiver and use it that way.
And it works great, with the game on my moniter via hdmi through the same dock.
But otherwise, without a dock or a USB C to USB adapter, there's no way to Bluetooth to it.
Gotta connect the receiver in one way or another
This wasn't actually based on the original japanese Saturn pad, which was a very mellow dark gray - the colour scheme is instead based on the original european and american model of Saturn, as well as the white (really more like beige) controller being based on the later revisions of the japanese Saturn pads.
It's a shame they screwed up with the analog trigger support, they clearly didn't bother testing this controller much at all, if they even care - it's hard to believe they cared much about the 3D control pad functionality if they didn't even realize this was an issue. Then again, I don't think a controller with such small sticks can surpass the original controller, that stick is still king.
As a switch controller, I can see it being absolutely fantastic since the switch has no analog trigger support in the first place!
It was based on the original Japanese design - as in shape, buttons, d-pad, etc.
@@SegaLordXIt would be more correct to say the inspiration was the second revision of the US/EU controller - known as MK-80116 in the US.
I will buy it because I love the direction cross + 6 buttons and analog sticks it is the best combo for me
They should have gone the route that Retro-Fighters did with their BattlerGCs - the analog triggers switch to digital as soon as it's converted from the GCN receiver to the USB receiver.
I pre-ordered one of these and was immediately disappointed due to it not being compatible with Nights.
You are one of my favorite channels
11:41 - disappointed to say the least. I was really looking forward to this controller and supporting this company more (I love the original Saturn wireless pad and use it often while gaming on my Saturn). Looks like it's off to Ebay to buy the OG 3D controller like I originally was going to do before finding out about this device. 😔
Another great video! I love the new outro!
Forget the lack of analog, what peeved me the most is that the device didn't include gyro for the Switch games. That way I can't quite use it as a replacement controller I could use for both standard gaming and fighting games.
Thanks for this review man, I've been checking for this controller for awhile and been thinking about getting it for my PS5 to use with my Brookman converter for fighting games. My usb wired SS controller doesn't work, but I was told this one would. Sucks it doesnt work 100% with the actual Sega Saturn system though.
I don't know fam. I'd say wait until they update the firmware and macros that will allow you to truly map the buttons.
Nice review. Looking forward to your reactions on the recent Sega announcements.
Thanks for the review! I had been keeping my eyes out for this controller, and I appreciate how you tried it out with so many different systems. You showed it working with PS3 games, but I wonder how compatible it is. I have Retrobit’s 8 button genesis controller, and it’s not accepted by any of the PS1 games I have on the system, and even some of the PS3 fighting games don’t work with it, which is a shame, because it’s a pretty nice fighting game controller for my PC.
I didn't notice it before but I really liked the outro!
It's new and this is the first video.
Shoulda known Sega Lord was gonna tell the truth. Yet another exceptional vid Good Sir. I think Retro Bit needs to add software to tweak the button layout. Most controllers at such a level have adjustment software or a switch embedded to let you choose what shoulder/face buttons you'd prefer to use, but retro bit has nothing of the sort. This is essential for me, as I am using this controller as a go to for SF 6, with the Brook wingman FGC. Sounds like you could use that sort of feature for analog games on Saturn. So hopefully a fix is coming.
Wish they can bring back the 3D Controller. Maybe make a wireless version or a USB version. or an adapter where you can change the Saturn connector with a wireless adapter or USB.
Thank you for this great review. It’s a shame that the shoulder pads are not working in analog mode. I know it’s a far stretch, but could it work as a replacement to the twin sticks controller?
I can't wait to get my hands on this .
Thank you for testing the 3D games. The joycon looking analogs and the actual array with the L/R/ZL/ZR is the deakbreaker for me. I don't want to let go of the awesome meaty shoulders of the standard saturn controller, the L and R on here look too tiny for my liking. I strongly feel they should've made the shell even bigger so they could've had both real console-quality analogs, the real saturn shoulders and good analog triggers all in one. As it is right now, this controller's appeal looks far too limited.
This seems like a missed opportunity to me. Why settle for digital triggers when the controller has analog sticks? Analog triggers are really important when playing Lobotomy's shooters on Saturn.
From my reading of their FAQ, they apparently predicted that most people would be using it on Switch or otherwise for titles that don't use the analogue input from triggers; such as fighting games. I expect it was to keep costs down as well.
I still find it dumb however, while I don't play many games where analogue input from triggers is used it's still a blow to compatibility with not just 3D Control Pad titles but also PS3 and PC titles.
@@LonelySpaceDetective I hope the packaging and product pages on various store sites make it clear how bad the actual Saturn 3D Controller compatibility is. Being a Sega fan is crazy. This is the kind of trash we get. It's at its very worst when used with Sega ANYTHING. Meanwhile, it primarily targets platforms that have the exact opposite button labels. This product is an enigma. Who wanted what this ended up being?
@@kubev Random addition, since I re-read your original comment and realized something I could have mentioned:
At the least, they have apparently considered having a mode where the right stick emulates the analogue triggers, but it didn't make it into the release firmware, and honestly I wouldn't consider it ideal anyway even if they do eventually add it.
@@LonelySpaceDetective Yeah, that's definitely not ideal. I did used to play GRID on PC with a similar setup, as I only had a Logitech F310 (which has dual sticks but not analog triggers) at the time, but I'm not going back to that. Haha.
As neat as this is, it's just too much of a compromise to have this thing make some mainstay Saturn games unplayable.
Appreciate the review.
For the record, this pad plays them fine in its standard digital mode. It's only when in analog mode that there is an issue.
@@SegaLordXthat’s fair, but then why not just play them with a digital controller? It makes no sense to buy this for a Saturn.
There’s not *that* many Saturn games that even fully use the analog controls, so it’s not like they couldn’t have tested this.
I'll probaby be returning mine, unless theres a firmware update to address some of the issues. I've been following the development of this since 2018. Conceptually this control pad is a great idea, but retro-bit fumbled the execution in ways that are hard to excuse with a 5 year+ head start:
- Its marketed as a 10 button gamepad, but upon launch we find out its 'functionally' an 8 button controller.
- The instructions contain typos, and reference functions that dont exist for this controller
- No way of changing bindings to something practical for most common usage cases for modern gaming OR retro emulation
- D-input implementation has been fumbled, as it allows for 128 separate inputs from a control surface
- its comes with a usb-c cable/port, but can't be used in wired mode
- There is currently no way to manually turn off the controller, which will reduce the longevity of the batter quicker. (Probably by design)
- Dropped the ball on having analog triggers
- Beta testing was poor, as there are a number of saturn games that exhibit bugs with regards to use the analog sticks. While some saturn software won't respond at all.
These are issues that could and should have been addressed before launch. I would have litterally bought 10 of these if it weren't for these obvious and glaring oversights. I also would have easily been willing to pay a higher price point for analog triggers. Hopefully 8-bitdo picks up thier slack.
In the endless, barren desert of RUclips crap, your channel is like a little oasis.👍
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for the thorough review. Looks like the hope of a wireless 3D Pad option is still not quite fulfilled...
I do hope that if we ever do get an adequate replacement for the 3D controller that it comes in grey. You have no idea how much it bugs me that Sega never made a 3D Control Pad in the original model 1 grey and blue colour scheme to match my preferred version of the console.
Woah! Cool new outro!
I use the existing digital-only wireless Retrobit Saturn controller for my Saturn console gaming most of the time on a real Saturn, and I thought "this was what I have been waiting for!". I have a Saturn 3d controller but it is bulky and has a wire, so I only use that now and then when needed. So I was waiting for an update to the good retrobit Saturn wireless controller to finally have an analog stick. Needless to say, this device appears to be very disappointing. I was going to blindly order it as I thought "how could this not be great?". I am very glad I saw this review before pulling the trigger (no pun intended). The small analog sticks (really not good), and unplayable games for the analog triggers are deal breakers. This is a slippery slope of third party licenses.
I am exactly like you, bought it for a wireless replacement to the NiGHTs pad. Kinda disappointed at it's support on the actual Saturn since I can't play NiGHTs with it properly. But it's a very very nice controller otherwise, I'll use it as a general purpose controller for MiSTer.
New outro! That's very cool :D
But the recommended content creators haven't created in a while:
- sega saturn dave hasn't posted in a year.
- Saturn Junkyard and southernsegagent haven't posted in two years.
- PlaySegaSaturn and pandamoniungr can't be found anymore.
Isn't it time to update that list?
Retrobit has wireless saturn pads without analog sticks or dual shoulder buttons. I've gone through two of those in two years after LIGHT USAGE because the internal backplate of the dpad has a tendency to snap under any amount of sustained pressure. I've googled around and this is common. If they haven't fixed that issue, I would caution against buying this unless you're okay with having to open the thing up and superglue its parts back together.
man you don't know how close I was to picking one of these up! It was *going* to be in lieu of the 3D analog controller since I assumed it supported all the features, *but* if it can't even do NIGHTS correctly (yknow the game that put the damn thing on the map to begin with) correctly, then what the hell are they even doing?! guess I'll boot it off my amazon wishlist and hope for a decent deal on an OG 3D analog pad. or suppose spring for the brook adapter.
Sweet new outro, SLX.
Surely a twin stick mode was essential. So it basically doesn't work worth a crap with anything 3d pad, which frankly is the whole point of the device.
Panzer dragoon zwei is so frickin beautiful
Great outro, nice animation 👍🏻
Glad you like it.
Are you going to make a video about the Sega announcement from the game awards
Yes. It should be out in a day or two.
I want one. And Sega, Saturn and Dreamcast collection please.
The last one is dope.
I picked one of these up and really wanted to like it but so far I don't. Nights was one of the games I wanted it for and it is a bummer that it doesn't work correctly for it. I have the clear blue Retro-bit wireless Saturn controller and like it a lot better.
That suck, I guess I will not be buying this.
So the verdict seems to be that the Sega Saturn styled controller is fine as long as you don't use it with Sega products. By the way, I've been here long enough to know that even though the ending of your video is different, the song is the same as it was a few years ago!
As someone who emulates everything this seems like a decent purchase, the lack of analogue shoulder buttons is a bit of a headscratcher though. Not a deal breaker for me though.
love that their doing this but my OG Saturn and controllers are fine
I wonder if this video needs an update with the new firmware updates? I have heard that they fixed the analog stick issues with Saturn titles that use the 3D Controller, and it functions as it should.
I updated the firmware on the Saturn dongle and this fixed the issue in the titles I tested.
I like one
SS controller is my favourite controller of all time.
a somewhat recent interview of a Retrobit rep at some game show seemed to imply that Sega wanted these at a certain price point and so they could only do so much. I think it's stupid personally and if they wanted to make them the ultimate controller to equal or better quality than mainstream consoles, they could price them higher. I don't think it would be unreasonable to give all the features everyone seems to be asking for (analog triggers; better analog sticks--I think that seems to be the consensus so far) for a higher price. Console controllers seem to be $70 or more commonly nowadays, which I don't feel is merited b/c the analogs are not hall effect and I don't think the build quality is that great (in terms of dpads and analogs) compared to many older console controllers that are still going strong decades later after purchase. If RB and Sega were really concerned w/making the best controllers possible, they should be durable (at least for 5 years of heavy usage). I'm on the fence about this controller and am more of a wired player so will wait for that version. I don't know why no one that has reviewed these yet have tried to see if they could replace the dpads with one from the original saturn pads. That being said, I doubt this controller could survive many of my occasional SF5 hours long marathons (dpad would break b/c it's not as durable as the original saturn model 2 pad I'd bet). I also bet I'd break the analog sticks rather quickly before reaching round 21 on Robotron 2084, which is another game I use to test the quality of my controllers. I think the shorter throw, lower profile of analog sticks should be the standard aimed for in future controller designs, but at this point in time, I don't think there exists any current design that can properly provide an adequate level of precision or durability in this regard. The switch analog sticks are the worst in Nintendo's history imho (cheap and flimsy feeling) and one of the reasons I was not interested in the getting a Switch despite its many benefits (one of their best game libraries ever; portability). So RB incorporating these into the Saturn Pro design with hall-effect is moot if the sticks themselves are easily breakable.
Did Retrobit say why they changed the design from the earlier one with the bigger analogue sticks and original size body?
"Improvements".
Looking at the control map, it seems that C and Z get mapped to L and R in Dinput and Xinput. This means that using those as discrete buttons with their own mappings is not do-able. In my opinion, this is a deal breaker. The end user should be able to map each one of their keys as they as they please. This forced duplication limits the options of the end user. Just thinking of this for emulation on PC and MiSTer. Example, suppose I want to play N64 games with this pad using the most obvious 1:1 mapping. Now a pair of my C buttons is on the shoulders when I probably want something else there for easy access.
With regards to the lack of analog triggers, did you try using the right stick as your throttle? Racing games made on platforms with sticks that lacked analog triggers would often allow you to map analog throttle to right-stick forwards and brake to right-stick rearwards. It wouldn't be to tough for Retro-Bit to implement something like this mapping via a firmware update, if it isn't there already.
Aww dammit this is already out of stock!
It's really frustrating, just having analogue triggers and maybe better sticks would have made this product ten times better but as for now it is hold back by this design flaw.
I still think I might get it, as I wanted it more for mega drive games with the modern adjustments as being a big bonus, but I wish they made this just slightly better.
Playing on the Saturn was so frustrating trying to get Daytona Circuit edition to work. I even remapped the controls and it still didn't work. Duke Nukem, Quake and Powerslave were fun. but not having to ability to strafe really takes away from it. I did try my Genesis mini 1. and I couldn't even get it to pair. Hopefully they release a firmware update
Excellent review thanks. Never rated retrobit stuff to be honest. I have the original saturn wireless pads and they are frustrating to use, they discharge so quickly. Every time I boot up the Saturn the pads are dead despite having left them with a full charge, 9 times out of 10 I just reach for my old wired pad.
I will cancel my 3 preorders.. I want this to be the ultimate Saturn controller.. dont mind about PC and other platforms. And if it's broken on major titles then its no good to me
8bitdo is a pretty awesome brand...maybe they will make one for Saturn...
If Retro-Bit was allowed to make that Sega Saturn Pro Controller slightly wide enough then the Dual Analog sticks could be a bit further apart like the PS4 controller.
Otherwise the dual analog sticks are so close that playing games that uses these alot while using this controller can easily clash our thumbs without even trying & It's best to just play games that mostly makes less use of the DA-sticks OR Games that mostly use the left analog stick on this controller for those certain/specific games, IMO. I play games that uses DA-sticks alot using different controllers & Trying to play DA-stick games with this SSPC isn't going to cut it.
I placed concave rubber grips on the DA's that's made for the nintendo switch joycons as they fit well on this SSPC where there's no need to mod a different set of sticks on 'em. I never put these on the N-Switch joycons since I always use N-Switch pro controller playing games on it.
Some of the games I played on PC with the 2 LED light setting (Start+B) on the SSPC, There seems to be a random left analog stick-drift problems that happens along with many who noticed this while using the 3D control mode with this controller while playing certain Sega Saturn games. Hopefully the firmware update Retro-Bit working on will address/fix these problems, etc.
It’s a crying shame really, most people are gonna buy this controller because it’s a more accessible (and affordable) alternative for the 3D pad. It kinda feels like retrobit designed the Saturn pro controller for the Nintendo switch as the switch now haves a small hand of Saturn remakes and such.
Interesting choice on the number/length of hadukens
If you are testing a 2D controller, there's no better way.
Makes sense now. Thanks@@SegaLordX
I was also hoping if this could be a substitute for the twin stick when playing games such as Virtual On