Honestly i think it's a beast of its own. Our META is a clear indicator of where we are in terms of Powercreep. After all, not all games have God Mode Armour, and those who do either ban it or nerf it from their competitive scene. Yu-Gi-Oh! Had the Tele-DAD, Salamangreat, Gouki, Blackwing META. Pokémon had Garchomp, Dracovish and I think Salamence dominating their own META back in the day. But they got relegated to the OU class. The thing with RuneScape, is that, precisely the lack of competitive scene prevents the armour from being balanced, and you end up in this weird position where the only measure to test how broken the weapons and armour are, is by doing speedkills, here's an example: NM Kerapac with BIS Melee has an average of 01:30, anything below is above average and uses META strategies (Grim, Gmaul Stall, Hybrid, etc), anything above is unoptimized and mostly on the casuals/learners area. My point: Endgame is a means to do things faster, but don't necessarily open up new venues to do bosses, Cryptbloom being an example of that, rather than making encounters faster, it made them safer (perhaps too much). And Vestments of Havoc did the opposite, speed at the cost of safety. Honestly i think we're on a good spot, but Jagex could do better and actually balance things instead nerfing them years after release.
Video topic. What is "Endgame" and fastest way to get there. Not "All maxed, all quests, all passives, all t90s" Bare minimum to start enjoying "Endgame" and quickest route to it.
I think it depends on the content of the end game tho. For example rs3 grinding for items and logs is fun and feels great. For me games like wow have a problem when it comes to end game mythic plus is bar far the best design by far (personally). But it has its flaws getting into top .01% in the world for ranks is a very different sort of buzz but having to raid to be able to compete if it’s content you hate is the part that ruins it for me.
I think the thing that makes RS3 unique is the variety of endgame as well. PVM is a big majority of it, but Achievements, Quests, Comp Cape, Collection Logs, Clue Scrolls logs, and a ton more. Add on to that the Ironman game mode, which makes completion all the more exciting and you are set for content.
One of the things I like about rs3 endgame (pvm wise) is that, for the most part, I can kill whatever boss I want, when I want. I haven't played wow in years, but one of my biggest annoyances was how you had to schedule raids at a specific time, and if you couldn't make it, oh well.
Time gates don't belong in video games. It's zero wonder why wow fell off and lost them billions when they literally prevent players from playing in order to suckle off their subscription for longer. So pathetic glad that games hit the shit pile.
@Llama-sensei Nothing is stopping you from treating rs3 that way and using pvm to socialize/make friends. Just because something can be soloed, doesn't mean it has to be.
I definitely enjoy Runescspe's endgame, but I saw that new player retention is quite low, so maybe we need more new to mid player guidance and or contents to improve that for the future of our game
I feel like another huge factor when comparing RS3 to other modern MMO's is how complex RS3 is compared to most MMO's now adays. I have had a handful of IRL friends try out RS3 and they just get so confused because there is just so much information. I know I was kind of discouraged when coming back after quitting in like 2018 and coming back in 2022 just because of all the changes. Thankfully I already knew a lot about the game when I came back in 2022 but invent/arch etc kind of a lot lol. I don't think the time it takes to get to end game is a problem but I think how complicated it is at the start is a bit much for completely new players.
i don't know how much those skills (especially invention) are overwhelming for a new player - one good thing about skills is that they lend themselves to not being massive infodumps that u have to memorize, since u are just unlocking things in a sequence also for invention, by the time a new player has unlocked it, they probably have played enough to have a bit of a grasp on some of the other systems it's a very complicated game, but i think it handles that complexity decently well. the same cannot be said for Warframe (my other fav game), which just throws a million systems at you after the tutorial, and then doesn't explain any of them
RS and Jagex get beat up a lot (deservedly so) but what they have accomplished in that game is nuts. To this day its the only game that I come back to after taking years and years off. Through the ups and downs, I have to admit, they've done something pretty special. There's not a ton of things I can think of that I would change, and they update it constantly.
i prefer rs3 end game as well as i can just basically do slayer/reaper tasks as someone like me who cant do the higher end bosses because either need friends or to difficult to learn i do wish most items was not so over priced but i understand lol still working on getting bis everything which does take a long time considering i dont boss that often only the best slayer tasks to do
I think right now MTX make you hit max in hours(?), but the main problem is that a new player won't spend money when just starting. Other problem is no bad luck mitigation, sometimes grinding for drop and be double or triple past droprate, meanwhile your guildie gets unique in 10 kills. Shame
It took me a year in rs3 to make my 3yo end game os account look like a noob. I really like how more bosses are accessible in rs3 than osrs. I’m currently at 450 zammy excited to nail down 500. After 99 in a skill I wouldn’t want to do a favorite money maker anymore cuz I felt like I was waisting time. In rs3 my thought is more “I think I’m gonna accidentally 200m archeology” Is end game worth it? Soooo worth it. Did it take too long to get there? Not if you can zero time most of it afk at work.
Dang this is a great video to watch especially after the recent rs3 livestream discussing loot and potential boss nerfs (common drops, daily locked pvm, etc.)
To me endgame was too complex and convoluted. The meta is full manual/switchscape and the new gear is often very niche and tons of presets and you need guides for abilities. I remember spending 300m on greater barge only to never use, because it is not intuivite or easy and not vert revo friendly.
@@nickdocherty2964 Yes, but greater Barge in my experience is not revo friendly. It is too inconvenient to use and it makes no intuitive sense on how to use it consistently.
@@zukodude487987 But honestly that's like the only ability upgrade that isn't revo friendly. In the same case Gfury is very revo friendly and stuff like Gflurry Gcocn Grico etc.. just work fine in revo as well. Play at your own pace noone is forcing you to sweat in full manuel with 20 switches. You do both, one of both or none, it's up to you. Revo with manuel tresholds can do any content.
The end game of lost ark IMO is min-maxing your build (engravings, horizontals, etc) and doing the raids that require real coordination. Personally I thought that end game was fun (first Valtan kill with my guild was an amazing feeling), but the progression to get there is the problematic part. It’s cool that alts encourage you to play other classes, but the grind of doing 12 chaos dungeons/guardian raids a day (for max resources) is horrible. In RS you can choose your grinds and you only have to do them once as opposed to LA where you do chaos dungeons/guardian raids forever. Either way I think the world is LA’s strongest aspect so when you first play and start exploring will probably be the high point for those who aren’t into grinding CDs/GRs forever.
I recently came to rs3. Been playing osrs since launch, have a collection log focused iron 1238/1451. Comparisons I find. Rs3 is a more endgame focused version of RuneScape in general. So many pre reqs to get into anything. 95 prayer and curse quests done, 97 herblore at least for overloads, invention for perks that make you actually be able to hit the bosses (precise) You’re right it takes hundreds of hours to get to endgame in rs3 and even more for osrs but osrs actually has things you can do along the way. There are tons of low end and mid tier bosses in old school. As well as high end bosses. Rs3 it seems all the content is after all of the big asf grinds so you have to slog through hundreds of hours with nothing to show for it. If my friends hadn’t bugged me for years to try rs3 and basically carry me to where I am now I woulda quit after the first video I watched. “Must have 95 prayer t85 weapons, 97 herblore….” For god wars 1?
maxed in both and always on rs3 90% of the time cuz of the end game for nearly 6 straight years now. Osrs end game isnt close to rs3, it basically looks non existent...
End game is so vast , from master quest to max experience and even achievement hunting and log hunting Pvm is just a small fraction to medium You can do the 100 kills for reaper Or go for logs and pets I think the biggest grind is clues tbh That's the game killer
i feel like loot should be raised a little, like make rare drops a little more common, like ive killed the arch glacor almost 4k times and around 1000% enrage, and have only gotten 1 core. it just gets to a point where it just gets way too grindy
So, from someone who likes grinding just a tiny bit and yet also plays FF14, I gotta say, raw low droprates with no bad luck mitigation of *any* kind really kinda does you dirty. I've really come to appreciate how FF14's normal-mode raids handle it, even if the brand-new content has a weekly lockout. Gear is fairly simple: 8-man raids have a low difficulty version and a high one. Clearing a low-difficulty raid, instead of dropping loot raw, instead drops "tokens". Basically, there's a token for each armor slot (head, body, hands, legs, feet, and accessories) and a special weapon token. You need multiples of these tokens to exchange for the corresponding gear (2 head tokens for a helmet, 4 body for a chestpiece, etc), and the big catch is that *if it's the latest raid tier, you can only obtain loot from each floor once per week.* Note that there are 4 floors to each "tier," so in reality you can obtain 4 armor tokens per week, plus the guaranteed weapon token you get for the final floor. And also note that I said *obtain;* if the boss doesn't drop the token that you need or you don't obtain them because someone else rolled higher, you can keep trying that floor until you actually *obtain* a token. So, say, if I wanted to grind the new raid tier, I know I have 4 tokens per week plus my guaranteed weapon token (which you need 7 of to exchange for the weapon). That means I can specifically target the chestpiece tokens to get a chestpiece that week, then look for a helmet and arms the next week. High difficulty (Savage) raids are weird, and not very fun from a gearing perspective. Basically after every floor, it drops a couple caskets that guaranteed give your current class's version of that slot (so, for example, it may drop a Head coffer and a Leg coffer) but only a couple, and once you've *completed* that floor (regardless of whether you got loot or even rolled) you can't obtain loot from it for another week. But, they also drop materials that are used to upgrade lower-tier armor up to higher stats as well as pity books. Thing is, you only get 4 books per week, and they're specifically numbered I to IV, and different gear slots call for specific book numbers (accessories need 4 floor I books, for instance). This means that if you're unlucky in your Savage raids, it could be 4 weeks before you even start to see gear. Granted, once you've done your clears, you're not just done for the week, either - there's still other endgame things you can grind like the 24-man raid or previous patch Savage content (which doesn't have a weekly limit) so you can catch up. But, honestly? FF14 is a WAY different game compared to Runescape. Content is designed with a party dynamic in-mind, and each new piece of content has new weapons for each class as well as new armor in EVERY slot for EVERY role, so there's enough to get spread thin on to make the token system necessary. Not to mention there's like 3 different "endgame" things released simultaneously, so even if one weekly grind doesn't work out, there's always another grind to work on. Although, that's not to say Runescape still couldn't take an idea or two. What if it merged a drop system and a points/pity system? Say a new boss dropped with a new awesome-looking hammer that's, like, a 1-in-400 chance to drop in its raw form. But every time you killed them, they GUARANTEED dropped "hammer shards" that stacked in your inventory. Once you've gotten enough hammer shards, you go an exchange them at some NPC (or craft them yourself) into the exact same hammer! Or, if you managed to get the rare, raw weapon drop but managed to accrue a bunch of hammer shards still, you could then exchange them for OTHER drops in the boss's pool, so as to not waste them? Things like this can help keep a "grindy" pace that Runescape likes to have, without imposing weekly lockouts, but also make it so that there's at least a guaranteed light at the end of the tunnel for unlucky folk who don't want to burn out.
I had a similar experience with newer MMOs. I played Lost Ark on its NA release for 500 hours where I loved the PVE boss encounters but I quit it because it felt like it was trying to rule how I should play the game (how many dungeons/raids I can do a day, and the stale shoveling of resources into gear for a chance of leveling it, etc). I also played Black Desert Online for around 2000 hours where I loved the PVP combat instead but it has similar issues as Lost Ark where you constantly try to level up your gear with resources (but its even worse because if the miniscule chance fails then it regresses to the previous level) and the gear scaling makes PVP easily imbalanced. Runescape I've kept coming back to since 2008 or so with uncounted thousands of hours yet I'm still not maxed with highest bosses done being GWD2. Still, I like Runescape because of the freedom to play how I want and it feels like there is always a goal for progression and a reward. On another note, as I play thousands of hours and unlock and progress more, new content and inflation seems to pull ever further ahead of my reach. Like, I don't know if I'll ever be able to kill bosses such as Telos or Zamorak, participate in the hard group raids, or break 1-2B gp.
Same thoughts bro, I have played wow, eso, gw2, blade and soul. The rs3 end game is the most fun I have ever experienced, but the early-mid game is so boring that all my friends that I try to introduce in the game quit the game in one day
interesting. i enjoy more the early/mid game, cuz i like skilling and low lvl grind. so much lvl up etc, then its slows down way too much for me. thats when i start alt acc while progress on main, or sometimes only playing the alt. even made 10hp untrim slay cape acc ^^
Big time Lost Ark and RS3 player here. I think the flaw in your comparison is that Lost Ark endgame raiding and gear progression is based on alt characters. Up to 6 characters can earn gold each week and many players play more to earn more materials for upgrading the "roster" of 6. With 6 characters, and 3 raids per character per week, you have 18 endgame raids to do each week. Adding in the daily guardian raids and chaos dungeons and it can be a bit overwhelming. The main draw of Lost Ark is that you aren't locked into just one playstyle / character class for the whole game. I feel the Lost Ark combat system far exceeds Runescape's combat system although the gear upgrade progression isnt as exciting as that dopamine rush of a big rare drop.
I do have 2 alts also at like close to max item level, so I do get the alts let you do more, but the problem I felt with that is the loot just felt a little meh, like anything I did whether it was extremely hard like doing the raids, or the cube, just the fact that there really aren't any "rare" drops like Runescape even pets for example I felt a little underwhelmed. The combat is amazing though, probably the best I've played. I said after I started if Lost ark had Runescape loot, or even a little bit of it, I feel it would be absolutely amazing. Another problem I had was going into raids for the first time, and then 1500ilvl people just 1 hitting everything and me not being able to experience the bosses/raid myself and having to wait another week for another chance, and party finder was pretty much dead.
@@NuzzNuzz Completely agree with the loot bit, not nearly as exciting. Yea the endgame players versus new players or even mid-game players has been a major problem in lost ark. If you aren't up to speed with the high level players, it becomes difficult and frustrating to progress without an active guild or friends. High level players dont take low level players for risk of failing or slowing down clears because they have 17 more raids to do. RS3 on the other hand has a great PVM community for learning, grouping, etc.
Personally multiple factors ruin end game for me. First and biggest factor is the archaic and often unresponsive tick system. This makes playing the game with any agency at endgame bossing more a challenge of muscle memory and repetition. The tick system makes the game feel as though you have a constant 100+ ping delay at all times. Second the reliance on switchscape gets very cumbersome as time goes on. Thirdly, as exciting as a new boss might be, after 100 kills the repetitive going through the motions of the fights gets stale quick. 100 kills is rookie numbers for many endgame pvmers out there but i would seriously go crosseyed with boredom if I had to do even 300 kills. Other MMOs that have a weekly raid lockout system have them put in place specifically to extend the life on content and keep it fresh for the players. The average mmo player probably would run a raid or boss over and over in a very short time and then get burned out quickly.
cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers! its seriously quite the consideration.s cause its whats burnt out a veteran like me. i just cant mechanically manage the transition to the skill gap and key use for the upper end rs3 bosses now, and i also cant eve nremotly figure out how to hunt the gap devivde of the costs for it.... the loot is awsome and im super hapyp slayuing all day and pushing endgame when its only like t92s or w/e but its deffinitly wild. osrs has let me rewatch that old nostalgia for next but its always the same~ cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers
ok 10:58 from someone thats played PoE a TON and always loves fresh league starts, i think what runescape lacks is that early on boarding exponential improvement as time goes on. they keep catering to endgmae players nad top of the packs whicvh is fine,. but they heavily rely on people spendinging wayyyyyyyyyy too much irl $ to use TH to boost skills past what they need. FSW was an interesting and useful start which could have been even more or on a consistent 6 or 12 month rotation, cause what runescpae lacks is getting new players up and running earlyer. yes you should have ot learn, yes it should be limited, but imo getting base 70s at a dramaticallly accelerated rate like FSW showed is beyond resonable. it what SHOULD happen, only under considerations that the dopamine tailoring is skewed one way or another so that people realize that when they push 70 to 80 it might take a bit longer and thne itd be normal rates by the time theyre pushing 85 or 90-99 etc. its not great, but i think havign that in the game so that people dont feel likes its "20 years, of history that i have to slog through of shitty gameplay and bad quests for 10000+ hours to reach a gameplay state where im the 'expected' player and can now finally engage with nerw bosses and content"~~~~~ dont get me wrong, i still love it, but as a veteran who has a lot but never broke past t92 gearing and max with some 120s etc i can see the pain. i played FSW and got a solid new alt together for entry level bossing and had a blast, but the compentative aspect and the ramp up was a bit aggressive~ a longer term solution or a reoccuring solution that can give people 3 months to blitz a new character into the game could help. but i digress~ rs3 has always suffered from terrible new player engagments and early account onboarding to increase at the same rate thast endgame increases but its ok i guess cause almost all rs players at this point just arnt starting fdresh, blind or both cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers
I like the discussion format mixed up with everything else you have! Keep up the good work👻 Yes the end game is great! I think theres plenty room for improvement in the ability system specifically require less inputs and switches overall tbh but yeah still great how it's ever evolving.
I've played BDO, Elder scrolls online and a few others but always came back to RuneScape I've played RuneScape since classic with the same account and something about it always seems better.
As a ironman I still have so much content I have yet to unlock, many bosses I have yet to even kill. By the time I got a few significant drops a new boss is released
The switchscape and micromanaging inventory along with the terrible movement and clicking is what put the nail in the coffin for me. Even not able to put anything on mouse macro like shield switch and defensive ability would be so nice to be allowed to do. But, nope it's bannable. I also don't have the ability to commit am hour to do a boss without distraction. I want to pvm but I suck at it and it cost so much to learn.
I feel the end game is too easy to aquire. The really only end game gear that is hard to aquire is dyed equipment and that really just optional. Would be nice if there was legitimately rare/ hard to aquire end game equipment or end game add-ons that took some serious time to make/get. (Example masterwork, if it wasn't tradable, and still top tier)
Lost Ark is not about one character. The main endgame grind is doing everything on 6 characters every day/week and funneling all the materials to your main. I had the same experience with Lost Ark though. With six characters it became just as boring if not more so then doing things on one.
If the game still had the pvp community it had back in 2010 it would have been a perfect game with its current pvming, but without pvp loot and gear is just blend. Because what made gear so sought after was due to pvp making it a worth while gear. The feeling that your gear is high risk in wildy and yet very powerful felt nice, now its mehhh.
Personally, I just want more solo bosses for mid-level players like me. Barrows is really the only boss I can do freely that doesn't take any effort to get into. General Graardor (or however it's spelled) needs like 40 kills before you can get into his room. Might seem small and irrelevant, but it just slows the process down and I dislike that a lot. Giant Mole is an example of a low-level boss that takes no effort to get into, but it has no real rewards. Not even close to how good Barrows is. All the "cool bosses" need a pretty high level account....At least from my perspective.
theres an anchronia or whatever island aka dino island where you build 3 totem pieces to get into gwd bosses with zero kill count. It resets once every 7 days where you just retouch the totem pole and go back to gwd kc free.
Welcome back my friend :D As always, you pose a very interesting question. I think RuneScape is like Pokémon or Yu-Gi-Oh!, In the sense that many tried to imitate it, and there's plenty of "alternatives", for example: Pokemon has Digimon. Yu-Gi-Oh! has Magic the Gathering. RuneScape has World of Warcraft. What I'm trying to say is, RS has its own charm, it had its spinoffs (most of them dead), but trying to find something that fills that gap, is a fruitless effort. Idk, it kinda became one with us? It's something that has become a part of yourself and it's hard to fill with anything else.
The game isn’t fun anymore, mid game too easy, end game just a repetitive grind or pvm being too high demanding. The game in general leaves a lot to be desired
I liked MU online with chance to upgrade your armor higher and higher with rescources but there was also good chance that enchanting failed and gear was destroyed in the process. That gambling aspect made grinding more exciting. It took out resources out from the game like gear and resources used for upgrading so you didnt have to spend like 40 hours to get some decent loot while keeping its value. It was something like aiming for specific perks in the gizmo. Imagine the need for like 10 of bandos equipment counterpart required to upgrade your armor. It would refresh a lot of old content like DPS rings did with DKs.
I see your point but don’t entirely agree. Having collection logs and titles for bosses to grind to isn’t “endless content” it’s jus Grindy. Some people like that some don’t. I personally don’t so I always find myself switching up games before coming back to RuneScape. That’s the problem with RuneScape the Grindy content is like not life changingly attractive. It took me about two years to be bis in mage and almost bis in range and I’m very bored of the game now. Even if I get a BOLG or grind for bis meele it’s waaaaay too repetitive since you’re jus spamming the same stuff again and again till you get there. I’ve seen people bis all gear and then grind party hats whereas I could never imagine doing that since I enjoy the content itself not grinding out every tiny thing (in MMO’s, in single player games I find it fun). Compared to other MMORPG’s - ik like one other person irl who bothers with rs3 and my other friends usually play bigger /newer mmo’s which rs doesn’t really come close to in terms or combat or graphics (modern mmo’s). Great video as always tho! You’re my fav rs RUclipsr!
I don’t care about the endgame pvm. It’s just something I’m not interested in. I do have low to mid bosses I go to. I’m still trying for the QBD pet and got one of the Dag Kings pets. I’m more of a skiller/slayer/clues I don’t play other MMOs
In this case I must say you have sold Lost Ark very short here. You mention you have played over 200 hours and have got to 1300 item level (I assume on only one character?) and refer to that as "end game". That's not even close to end game. Entry to end game is at least item level 1415 (for legion raids) on MULTIPLE different characters/alts. And this considered the very bare minimum to end game entry. A crucial point of Lost Ark is it encourages you create several different alts to support you main character under your one account on your chosen server. All your characters SHARE the same pool of silver and gold, along with your rapport/stronghold activities. You can have up to 18 different characters/classes but you can only earn weekly gold on 6 of them. So if you're only playing on one character, of course you're going to run out of raids to do. However if you actively play on 6 different characters per weekly reset, you will hardly ever run out of things to do as you have to complete multiple raids on all of them to get your gold. End game in Lost Ark (Western release) is having 6+ characters with at least item level 1490+ on all of them. I don't think you've played Lost Ark long enough to compare it properly with RS3 so most of the points you stated are not accurate at all as you missed a massive chunk of content. You are right about the drops/loot though, they are not as RNG based as RS3 bosses. The real RNG is upgrading your item level. At higher levels (1475+), you will find you only have like a 2% or 3% chance to successfully hone/upgrade your item levels. And that's where the real grind comes in, getting all the materials to upgrade your main character by using alts. RS3 end game is unique to a point, but I don't think it's on par with Lost Ark. p.s. You didn't even mention Lost Ark has actual SAILING where you can travel to 100+ islands and do different quests/activities there! Not to mention the fun sailing mini-games! Can't say the same about RS3...yet!
I do have 2 alts, and just got above 1370 item level with the first abyss raid gear. And I know there's sailing and I think collectibles are a really fun part of the game, but I just find myself lacking any motivation to do anything or hold my interest with the end-game. I had a blast leveling up to that point, but after that I felt a bit meh. I think another thing that sucked was finally getting a raid unlocked going in, and having a lvl 1500 1shot everything and not being able to experience that soured the experience for a lot of them. And I did try party finder quite a few times with no luck at all even with another friend. Not that Lost Ark is bad at all, but the end-game just sort of felt a lot lacking for the effort I put into it, but I guess I was expecting a bit more. The combat is the best I've played though, which is why I wish I had more interest in the end-game. Also the "Never running out of things to do" felt like even with my alts I would just login and repeat the same task everyday almost like doing dailies/farm runs on Runescape without any real big drop or item to "chase" that made it feel exciting. I think my problem could be more with the loot system rather than the timegatedness of bosses/raids. I still will continue to play and hopefully I find the fun in it again because I had a blast on my first character.
@@NuzzNuzz Ahhh fair enough, I understand. Yes you're right about the "repetitive" aspect when logging into each alt. At some point you do reach that "burnt out" feeling, especially with dailies. There's a lot of QOL updates that Smilegate should do to address this. But yea the combat is amazing, and graphics as well! And I'm pretty sure if you do keep playing and pushing your characters, you will enjoy the end game raids a lot. By the way, thanks for making some great RS3 content with your videos on here. Keep it up!
Being trim comped and now only 6 skills and 140m xp away from trimmed master max comp cape being in end game is bitter sweet. I can focus on doing whatever boss I want, complete new content as soon as they come out without worrying about losing progress to other goals. But it gets boring as fuck…. Waiting week to week for the next update. I waited weeks for Fort forinthry only to complete it in 5 hours…. It’s worth getting to end game because getting there is fun… after that you have to find things to entertain you. There is plenty to entertain but gets boring from time to time😊
Put it this way, my RuneScape 3 character is around lvl 118 cb. I haven't seen it since EOC. My osrs puts my RS3 character to shame. I still miss my original account that got banned, gave up trying to get it back, I swear they know there's billions of gp in discontinued items on there. 🤬
I don't like lost arks endgame because of the time gates. I also don't think new world has an endgame, it's too basic even though the combat is great (except muskets).
I find it funny how WoW has a timegate in content so players are forced to do more content for gear upgrades. You can kill each boss in a raid once per week, and depends on rolling for a drop. If you are done with your raid kills, you rely basically on doing Mythic +. On the other hand, I haven't played Lost Ark that much, but they don't seem to restrict content so players have to do other content or even to cap the speed in which they get strong, but rather do it so players spend real money on the materials for upgrades. Besides Raids in RS3, we don't have a lot of time gates for gear upgrades besides actually grinding that content, and killing bosses over and over to get the drops. But we are able to just spend IRL money on bonds and selling them for items. I find that WoW is kind of in the middle of RS3 and Lost Ark, we can't spend money directly into actual good items. You can pay to leech content, ofc, but it isn't as blatant as the other two games.
if you think about current media consumption, and what appeals to younger people, it's things that don't require a lot of time. whether it's tiktok, or youtube shorts, instagram reels etc. new mmos, that target a younger auidence, are much more centric on endgame as quick as possible, even if it is underwhelming, whereas runescape still has its original charm, hence the mainly older playerbase
That's very true. Almost every game has a fast track to end game and or a catch up method that gets you to end game pretty fast. I've always enjoyed Runescape and constantly find myself coming back to enjoy it over and over. It definitely has its issues, but the overall experience and game play is amazing
Played WoW for 13 years but quit with the current expansion, The problem was time gated content for me, once you've done stuff the only thing to do was dungeons and raids and you spend a lot of time just waiting around Where as RS there are so many things you can do and start immediately and get right into it, Time gated content will be the death of most MMOs.
Dude WTF happened to RS.. I remember being there on the last day as a kid at the G.E if that still even exists waiting for the EOC update. That day literally more than half the community quit. Thanks for the amazing childhood RS. You will be missed, R.I.P 🙏🏻
rs/osrs end game is a million times better than other mmos. other mmos almost everything is untradeable and all end game content requires a team and is locked weekly. so unless you're really into weekly group pvm, what's the point in even upgrading your gear?
😂 almost a year ago I wanna say now, I started FF14 online. Omfg 🤬 🙀 the mechanics the ability’s the quests side quests leveling world etc etc so so so so so much to learn and keybinds were just not my comprehension style 😢😂. So I went back to OSRS for better part of 7-8yrs now 🫤🤔👀 but I’d log onto RS3 just to run daily stuff to like make money to keep membership on osrs. I’m just about at endgame osrs and I got burnt out from the click intensive grinding n came into FSW again maxed out quickly but quit the FSW account 😂to get back on the main account. But main thing is trying to get into them keybinds. That’s my kryptonite n I wanna become immune 😂 😅.
Yeah I found the exact same thing with Lost Ark, got to End Game and could see that the rest of the game was just doing chaos dungeons and boring as shit team raids and upgrading my gear (Which was essentially identical to my current gear just higher numbers). Like it all just felt artificial and pointless, I do -50% damage to this because my gear level is 1690 and this thing is 1700 type of shit, just meh nty
The area where Runescape beats all other mmo's is quests. Both RS3 and OSRS have a lot of thought put into how quests are completed. Pretty much all other mmo's quests are kill x amount of enemies or obtain x amount of items from enemies and maybe talk to a few npc's during quests. RS3/OSRS actually make you think (or follow quest guides).
New world end game is finished in looting chests... 3 attacking skills each class (WTF??)... And not to mention farming for keys and finally when you got it, you coldnt't find a party to finish it...
i think the game has too much artificial complexity, 10 switches doesn't feel satisfying to play with. i liked the game way more right before invention released..
Only change I’d make is RuneScape endgame every high end boss should have bad luck mitigation. Change ratios depending on difficulty but no one should go 2k kills no core at arch glacor. Or you start BLM at 1k enrage glacor. Just a thought.
But once you get to end game you can have more of a life with other mmorpgs. were you cant with RS and they use the addition factor to their advantage. and other MMO's you can go just as dry on items. ive gone dry 4 weeks without getting any loot from raids on wow(upgrades and non upgrade). i love RS cuz you can solo all content if you wanna but you have no life and addiction is a problem
Making anything more complicated doesn't make it more interesting or enjoyable. Revolution is not equal to key bind madness. EOC means end of combat for many. A maxed player that can't get 70k damage at. Wilderness flash events because I can't see the targets over everyone else's animations and the game allows people to get way over 70k before I can somehow just doesn't seem even remotely fair to me.wheni get what I'm supposed to I just back off so others can get theirs on the non-combat parts. I guess I'm stupid or something. Hooray for Me...... And the He77 with you Jagex.
I think runescape works better as an ironman cause then you dont care if they fuck up the market. Also there is never a question if you got gear the pay 2 win way or you actually played for it. Sad that they still shelved group iron man cause i think thats the best way osrs got friend groups building again. Also there is to mutch to unlock for new player to do fun bosses and everything that dosent need it feels like a slayer monster. Mammoths killed me more then kree ara did. I cant recomment runescape to friends cause we all work so if your not playing for years it takes to long to play together
Tbh people are too picky for a 20 year old game, because if they listened to all the whiny 1700 total levels- the game wouldnt have had a very long life span. Its time that most of you come to terms with knowing you have no idea how to make a game let alone manage one. Just enjoy what the game has to offer, as no 1 game is going to have it all, ever. Main thing i hear is MTX waahh but You get like 150 keys a month if you do daily challenges and log in every day. You still want an easier game- not a more rewarding one.
for a casual player like me, i don't feel like grinding super endgame bosses. It's too stressful for me. I mean I can do them. But it's such a hassle to grind.
End-endgame is quite boring to the point where a 4% damage boost is something exciting. The scheme to keep players engaged over a long span of time works, however it has hidden costs. Like the fun of the experience, drops, setups, mechanics and teams being complete destroyed and the fun sucked out of the main selling point of the game. As such I would personally say that It's not good outside of a Carlyle perspective, which is irrelevant to every player.
Now that they have nerfed the auras to the ground, IMO, where the cooldown only ticks when online, it really prevents me from chasing the casual approach I have planned for my end game gaming :/ Really bummer!
Not sure where you get your information from, but aura's recharge when offline. Active aura's no longer tick down when logged out. (besides green fingers)
I will agree that while I like Modern Runescape combat, Lost Ark's combat was absolutely the best I've played, that's why it was disappointed with everything else the end-game had to offer. Nothing can match Runescape's charm and loot for me.
@Nuzz Nuzz the last good update for combat imo was the essence of finality bringing back old special attacks. I'd say that was the last time on rs3 i remember having a lot of fun with combat trying it out.
I completely disagree. Eoc adds a very steep learning curve to the combat system that alot of other games don't have, and that adds an extra level of satisfaction that others also do not have.
That was what inspired the video, looking at lost ark endgame made me think about how Runescapes endgame works and if its as good as modern MMOs. I hope they stay in this direction and dont try to be like the more modern MMOs.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you think Runescape 3s endgame is on par or better than more modern MMORPGS?
Honestly i think it's a beast of its own. Our META is a clear indicator of where we are in terms of Powercreep.
After all, not all games have God Mode Armour, and those who do either ban it or nerf it from their competitive scene.
Yu-Gi-Oh! Had the Tele-DAD, Salamangreat, Gouki, Blackwing META.
Pokémon had Garchomp, Dracovish and I think Salamence dominating their own META back in the day. But they got relegated to the OU class.
The thing with RuneScape, is that, precisely the lack of competitive scene prevents the armour from being balanced, and you end up in this weird position where the only measure to test how broken the weapons and armour are, is by doing speedkills, here's an example:
NM Kerapac with BIS Melee has an average of 01:30, anything below is above average and uses META strategies (Grim, Gmaul Stall, Hybrid, etc), anything above is unoptimized and mostly on the casuals/learners area.
My point: Endgame is a means to do things faster, but don't necessarily open up new venues to do bosses, Cryptbloom being an example of that, rather than making encounters faster, it made them safer (perhaps too much). And Vestments of Havoc did the opposite, speed at the cost of safety.
Honestly i think we're on a good spot, but Jagex could do better and actually balance things instead nerfing them years after release.
Video topic. What is "Endgame" and fastest way to get there. Not "All maxed, all quests, all passives, all t90s" Bare minimum to start enjoying "Endgame" and quickest route to it.
Definitely better. The amount of work it takes to get there and finally achieving it... Amazing 👌
I think it depends on the content of the end game tho. For example rs3 grinding for items and logs is fun and feels great. For me games like wow have a problem when it comes to end game mythic plus is bar far the best design by far (personally). But it has its flaws getting into top .01% in the world for ranks is a very different sort of buzz but having to raid to be able to compete if it’s content you hate is the part that ruins it for me.
Yes. MOre rewarding than any MMO out.
Being able do most of the bosses solo is sooo great. Not waiting other peoples wasting time on long raids then someone leaves or fucks up no thanks.
I think the thing that makes RS3 unique is the variety of endgame as well. PVM is a big majority of it, but Achievements, Quests, Comp Cape, Collection Logs, Clue Scrolls logs, and a ton more. Add on to that the Ironman game mode, which makes completion all the more exciting and you are set for content.
One of the things I like about rs3 endgame (pvm wise) is that, for the most part, I can kill whatever boss I want, when I want. I haven't played wow in years, but one of my biggest annoyances was how you had to schedule raids at a specific time, and if you couldn't make it, oh well.
That's one of the things I loved most about WoW. PVE forced you to socialize and make friends. RS3 end game can almost all be soloed.
Time gates don't belong in video games. It's zero wonder why wow fell off and lost them billions when they literally prevent players from playing in order to suckle off their subscription for longer. So pathetic glad that games hit the shit pile.
@Llama-sensei Nothing is stopping you from treating rs3 that way and using pvm to socialize/make friends. Just because something can be soloed, doesn't mean it has to be.
@@charliegrabow3518 actually just saying WoW is at its best it's been in 6-7 years right now. But as a raider from wow, i agree, the timegates suck.
I definitely enjoy Runescspe's endgame, but I saw that new player retention is quite low, so maybe we need more new to mid player guidance and or contents to improve that for the future of our game
I feel like another huge factor when comparing RS3 to other modern MMO's is how complex RS3 is compared to most MMO's now adays. I have had a handful of IRL friends try out RS3 and they just get so confused because there is just so much information. I know I was kind of discouraged when coming back after quitting in like 2018 and coming back in 2022 just because of all the changes. Thankfully I already knew a lot about the game when I came back in 2022 but invent/arch etc kind of a lot lol. I don't think the time it takes to get to end game is a problem but I think how complicated it is at the start is a bit much for completely new players.
i don't know how much those skills (especially invention) are overwhelming for a new player - one good thing about skills is that they lend themselves to not being massive infodumps that u have to memorize, since u are just unlocking things in a sequence
also for invention, by the time a new player has unlocked it, they probably have played enough to have a bit of a grasp on some of the other systems
it's a very complicated game, but i think it handles that complexity decently well. the same cannot be said for Warframe (my other fav game), which just throws a million systems at you after the tutorial, and then doesn't explain any of them
RS and Jagex get beat up a lot (deservedly so) but what they have accomplished in that game is nuts. To this day its the only game that I come back to after taking years and years off. Through the ups and downs, I have to admit, they've done something pretty special. There's not a ton of things I can think of that I would change, and they update it constantly.
soloscaping is why I keep coming back, no team required just you at your own pace
started doing HM kerapac and got my first staff piece at 49 kc. it’s such a good feeling
i prefer rs3 end game as well as i can just basically do slayer/reaper tasks as someone like me who cant do the higher end bosses because either need friends or to difficult to learn i do wish most items was not so over priced but i understand lol still working on getting bis everything which does take a long time considering i dont boss that often only the best slayer tasks to do
I think right now MTX make you hit max in hours(?), but the main problem is that a new player won't spend money when just starting. Other problem is no bad luck mitigation, sometimes grinding for drop and be double or triple past droprate, meanwhile your guildie gets unique in 10 kills. Shame
It took me a year in rs3 to make my 3yo end game os account look like a noob.
I really like how more bosses are accessible in rs3 than osrs. I’m currently at 450 zammy excited to nail down 500.
After 99 in a skill I wouldn’t want to do a favorite money maker anymore cuz I felt like I was waisting time. In rs3 my thought is more “I think I’m gonna accidentally 200m archeology”
Is end game worth it? Soooo worth it. Did it take too long to get there? Not if you can zero time most of it afk at work.
Dang this is a great video to watch especially after the recent rs3 livestream discussing loot and potential boss nerfs (common drops, daily locked pvm, etc.)
Yup that wasn't my intention but explains my position perfectly.
To me endgame was too complex and convoluted. The meta is full manual/switchscape and the new gear is often very niche and tons of presets and you need guides for abilities. I remember spending 300m on greater barge only to never use, because it is not intuivite or easy and not vert revo friendly.
All you really need is revo and manually use thresholds, ults and manually cast surge, escape, barge and prayer switches
@@nickdocherty2964 Yes, but greater Barge in my experience is not revo friendly. It is too inconvenient to use and it makes no intuitive sense on how to use it consistently.
@@zukodude487987 But honestly that's like the only ability upgrade that isn't revo friendly. In the same case Gfury is very revo friendly and stuff like Gflurry Gcocn Grico etc.. just work fine in revo as well. Play at your own pace noone is forcing you to sweat in full manuel with 20 switches. You do both, one of both or none, it's up to you. Revo with manuel tresholds can do any content.
The end game of lost ark IMO is min-maxing your build (engravings, horizontals, etc) and doing the raids that require real coordination.
Personally I thought that end game was fun (first Valtan kill with my guild was an amazing feeling), but the progression to get there is the problematic part. It’s cool that alts encourage you to play other classes, but the grind of doing 12 chaos dungeons/guardian raids a day (for max resources) is horrible. In RS you can choose your grinds and you only have to do them once as opposed to LA where you do chaos dungeons/guardian raids forever.
Either way I think the world is LA’s strongest aspect so when you first play and start exploring will probably be the high point for those who aren’t into grinding CDs/GRs forever.
I recently came to rs3. Been playing osrs since launch, have a collection log focused iron 1238/1451.
Comparisons I find. Rs3 is a more endgame focused version of RuneScape in general. So many pre reqs to get into anything.
95 prayer and curse quests done, 97 herblore at least for overloads, invention for perks that make you actually be able to hit the bosses (precise)
You’re right it takes hundreds of hours to get to endgame in rs3 and even more for osrs but osrs actually has things you can do along the way. There are tons of low end and mid tier bosses in old school. As well as high end bosses. Rs3 it seems all the content is after all of the big asf grinds so you have to slog through hundreds of hours with nothing to show for it. If my friends hadn’t bugged me for years to try rs3 and basically carry me to where I am now I woulda quit after the first video I watched. “Must have 95 prayer t85 weapons, 97 herblore….” For god wars 1?
maxed in both and always on rs3 90% of the time cuz of the end game for nearly 6 straight years now. Osrs end game isnt close to rs3, it basically looks non existent...
End game is so vast , from master quest to max experience and even achievement hunting and log hunting
Pvm is just a small fraction to medium
You can do the 100 kills for reaper
Or go for logs and pets
I think the biggest grind is clues tbh
That's the game killer
2010 Runescape was beautiful!
i feel like loot should be raised a little, like make rare drops a little more common, like ive killed the arch glacor almost 4k times and around 1000% enrage, and have only gotten 1 core. it just gets to a point where it just gets way too grindy
yeah or some form of bad luck mitigation, like a pity timer or increasing drop rates as a dry spell gets longer or something
So, from someone who likes grinding just a tiny bit and yet also plays FF14, I gotta say, raw low droprates with no bad luck mitigation of *any* kind really kinda does you dirty. I've really come to appreciate how FF14's normal-mode raids handle it, even if the brand-new content has a weekly lockout.
Gear is fairly simple:
8-man raids have a low difficulty version and a high one. Clearing a low-difficulty raid, instead of dropping loot raw, instead drops "tokens". Basically, there's a token for each armor slot (head, body, hands, legs, feet, and accessories) and a special weapon token. You need multiples of these tokens to exchange for the corresponding gear (2 head tokens for a helmet, 4 body for a chestpiece, etc), and the big catch is that *if it's the latest raid tier, you can only obtain loot from each floor once per week.* Note that there are 4 floors to each "tier," so in reality you can obtain 4 armor tokens per week, plus the guaranteed weapon token you get for the final floor. And also note that I said *obtain;* if the boss doesn't drop the token that you need or you don't obtain them because someone else rolled higher, you can keep trying that floor until you actually *obtain* a token.
So, say, if I wanted to grind the new raid tier, I know I have 4 tokens per week plus my guaranteed weapon token (which you need 7 of to exchange for the weapon). That means I can specifically target the chestpiece tokens to get a chestpiece that week, then look for a helmet and arms the next week.
High difficulty (Savage) raids are weird, and not very fun from a gearing perspective. Basically after every floor, it drops a couple caskets that guaranteed give your current class's version of that slot (so, for example, it may drop a Head coffer and a Leg coffer) but only a couple, and once you've *completed* that floor (regardless of whether you got loot or even rolled) you can't obtain loot from it for another week. But, they also drop materials that are used to upgrade lower-tier armor up to higher stats as well as pity books. Thing is, you only get 4 books per week, and they're specifically numbered I to IV, and different gear slots call for specific book numbers (accessories need 4 floor I books, for instance). This means that if you're unlucky in your Savage raids, it could be 4 weeks before you even start to see gear. Granted, once you've done your clears, you're not just done for the week, either - there's still other endgame things you can grind like the 24-man raid or previous patch Savage content (which doesn't have a weekly limit) so you can catch up.
But, honestly? FF14 is a WAY different game compared to Runescape. Content is designed with a party dynamic in-mind, and each new piece of content has new weapons for each class as well as new armor in EVERY slot for EVERY role, so there's enough to get spread thin on to make the token system necessary. Not to mention there's like 3 different "endgame" things released simultaneously, so even if one weekly grind doesn't work out, there's always another grind to work on.
Although, that's not to say Runescape still couldn't take an idea or two. What if it merged a drop system and a points/pity system? Say a new boss dropped with a new awesome-looking hammer that's, like, a 1-in-400 chance to drop in its raw form. But every time you killed them, they GUARANTEED dropped "hammer shards" that stacked in your inventory. Once you've gotten enough hammer shards, you go an exchange them at some NPC (or craft them yourself) into the exact same hammer! Or, if you managed to get the rare, raw weapon drop but managed to accrue a bunch of hammer shards still, you could then exchange them for OTHER drops in the boss's pool, so as to not waste them? Things like this can help keep a "grindy" pace that Runescape likes to have, without imposing weekly lockouts, but also make it so that there's at least a guaranteed light at the end of the tunnel for unlucky folk who don't want to burn out.
the early game being a long af grind is one of the good things about runescape imo
we need voice chat in bossing instances
I had a similar experience with newer MMOs. I played Lost Ark on its NA release for 500 hours where I loved the PVE boss encounters but I quit it because it felt like it was trying to rule how I should play the game (how many dungeons/raids I can do a day, and the stale shoveling of resources into gear for a chance of leveling it, etc). I also played Black Desert Online for around 2000 hours where I loved the PVP combat instead but it has similar issues as Lost Ark where you constantly try to level up your gear with resources (but its even worse because if the miniscule chance fails then it regresses to the previous level) and the gear scaling makes PVP easily imbalanced. Runescape I've kept coming back to since 2008 or so with uncounted thousands of hours yet I'm still not maxed with highest bosses done being GWD2. Still, I like Runescape because of the freedom to play how I want and it feels like there is always a goal for progression and a reward. On another note, as I play thousands of hours and unlock and progress more, new content and inflation seems to pull ever further ahead of my reach. Like, I don't know if I'll ever be able to kill bosses such as Telos or Zamorak, participate in the hard group raids, or break 1-2B gp.
Just spend like 200$ on rs gold lol and get to the fun part … 200$ saves you months and months of grind
I did the same with BDO, stunning gameplay leveling up I loved it, quest progression was nice and engaging, then endgame you hit a wall lol.
Secret: it's never been worth the grind. Grinding thousands of corporeal beasts back in the day proved that to me.
I think he's specifically saying worth the grind to get to endgame. Not necessarily the grind at end game. This is the way I interpreted his video.
@Tim technically it's faster than ever now... but it's also highly dependent on information outside the game now
I'm kinda saying both actually. I think both are interesting
Same thoughts bro, I have played wow, eso, gw2, blade and soul. The rs3 end game is the most fun I have ever experienced, but the early-mid game is so boring that all my friends that I try to introduce in the game quit the game in one day
Same
interesting. i enjoy more the early/mid game, cuz i like skilling and low lvl grind. so much lvl up etc, then its slows down way too much for me. thats when i start alt acc while progress on main, or sometimes only playing the alt. even made 10hp untrim slay cape acc ^^
@@maxkiss636 wouldnt OSRS be more your jam if skilling is your favorite thing then?
Big time Lost Ark and RS3 player here. I think the flaw in your comparison is that Lost Ark endgame raiding and gear progression is based on alt characters. Up to 6 characters can earn gold each week and many players play more to earn more materials for upgrading the "roster" of 6. With 6 characters, and 3 raids per character per week, you have 18 endgame raids to do each week. Adding in the daily guardian raids and chaos dungeons and it can be a bit overwhelming. The main draw of Lost Ark is that you aren't locked into just one playstyle / character class for the whole game. I feel the Lost Ark combat system far exceeds Runescape's combat system although the gear upgrade progression isnt as exciting as that dopamine rush of a big rare drop.
I do have 2 alts also at like close to max item level, so I do get the alts let you do more, but the problem I felt with that is the loot just felt a little meh, like anything I did whether it was extremely hard like doing the raids, or the cube, just the fact that there really aren't any "rare" drops like Runescape even pets for example I felt a little underwhelmed. The combat is amazing though, probably the best I've played. I said after I started if Lost ark had Runescape loot, or even a little bit of it, I feel it would be absolutely amazing. Another problem I had was going into raids for the first time, and then 1500ilvl people just 1 hitting everything and me not being able to experience the bosses/raid myself and having to wait another week for another chance, and party finder was pretty much dead.
@@NuzzNuzz Completely agree with the loot bit, not nearly as exciting. Yea the endgame players versus new players or even mid-game players has been a major problem in lost ark. If you aren't up to speed with the high level players, it becomes difficult and frustrating to progress without an active guild or friends. High level players dont take low level players for risk of failing or slowing down clears because they have 17 more raids to do. RS3 on the other hand has a great PVM community for learning, grouping, etc.
Personally multiple factors ruin end game for me. First and biggest factor is the archaic and often unresponsive tick system. This makes playing the game with any agency at endgame bossing more a challenge of muscle memory and repetition. The tick system makes the game feel as though you have a constant 100+ ping delay at all times. Second the reliance on switchscape gets very cumbersome as time goes on. Thirdly, as exciting as a new boss might be, after 100 kills the repetitive going through the motions of the fights gets stale quick. 100 kills is rookie numbers for many endgame pvmers out there but i would seriously go crosseyed with boredom if I had to do even 300 kills. Other MMOs that have a weekly raid lockout system have them put in place specifically to extend the life on content and keep it fresh for the players. The average mmo player probably would run a raid or boss over and over in a very short time and then get burned out quickly.
cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers! its seriously quite the consideration.s cause its whats burnt out a veteran like me. i just cant mechanically manage the transition to the skill gap and key use for the upper end rs3 bosses now, and i also cant eve nremotly figure out how to hunt the gap devivde of the costs for it.... the loot is awsome and im super hapyp slayuing all day and pushing endgame when its only like t92s or w/e but its deffinitly wild. osrs has let me rewatch that old nostalgia for next but its always the same~ cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers
ok 10:58 from someone thats played PoE a TON and always loves fresh league starts, i think what runescape lacks is that early on boarding exponential improvement as time goes on. they keep catering to endgmae players nad top of the packs whicvh is fine,. but they heavily rely on people spendinging wayyyyyyyyyy too much irl $ to use TH to boost skills past what they need. FSW was an interesting and useful start which could have been even more or on a consistent 6 or 12 month rotation, cause what runescpae lacks is getting new players up and running earlyer. yes you should have ot learn, yes it should be limited, but imo getting base 70s at a dramaticallly accelerated rate like FSW showed is beyond resonable. it what SHOULD happen, only under considerations that the dopamine tailoring is skewed one way or another so that people realize that when they push 70 to 80 it might take a bit longer and thne itd be normal rates by the time theyre pushing 85 or 90-99 etc. its not great, but i think havign that in the game so that people dont feel likes its "20 years, of history that i have to slog through of shitty gameplay and bad quests for 10000+ hours to reach a gameplay state where im the 'expected' player and can now finally engage with nerw bosses and content"~~~~~ dont get me wrong, i still love it, but as a veteran who has a lot but never broke past t92 gearing and max with some 120s etc i can see the pain. i played FSW and got a solid new alt together for entry level bossing and had a blast, but the compentative aspect and the ramp up was a bit aggressive~ a longer term solution or a reoccuring solution that can give people 3 months to blitz a new character into the game could help. but i digress~ rs3 has always suffered from terrible new player engagments and early account onboarding to increase at the same rate thast endgame increases but its ok i guess cause almost all rs players at this point just arnt starting fdresh, blind or both cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers
Experience with high level stuff is like having a rash in the middle of your back or poison ivy everywhere. 😓
I like the discussion format mixed up with everything else you have! Keep up the good work👻
Yes the end game is great! I think theres plenty room for improvement in the ability system specifically require less inputs and switches overall tbh but yeah still great how it's ever evolving.
I've played BDO, Elder scrolls online and a few others but always came back to RuneScape I've played RuneScape since classic with the same account and something about it always seems better.
As a ironman I still have so much content I have yet to unlock, many bosses I have yet to even kill. By the time I got a few significant drops a new boss is released
The switchscape and micromanaging inventory along with the terrible movement and clicking is what put the nail in the coffin for me. Even not able to put anything on mouse macro like shield switch and defensive ability would be so nice to be allowed to do. But, nope it's bannable. I also don't have the ability to commit am hour to do a boss without distraction. I want to pvm but I suck at it and it cost so much to learn.
I feel the end game is too easy to aquire. The really only end game gear that is hard to aquire is dyed equipment and that really just optional. Would be nice if there was legitimately rare/ hard to aquire end game equipment or end game add-ons that took some serious time to make/get. (Example masterwork, if it wasn't tradable, and still top tier)
Lost Ark is not about one character. The main endgame grind is doing everything on 6 characters every day/week and funneling all the materials to your main. I had the same experience with Lost Ark though. With six characters it became just as boring if not more so then doing things on one.
Only reason that I’ve stuck with RS3 so long, is that I can do everything solo.
same
If the game still had the pvp community it had back in 2010 it would have been a perfect game with its current pvming, but without pvp loot and gear is just blend. Because what made gear so sought after was due to pvp making it a worth while gear. The feeling that your gear is high risk in wildy and yet very powerful felt nice, now its mehhh.
Personally, I just want more solo bosses for mid-level players like me.
Barrows is really the only boss I can do freely that doesn't take any effort to get into.
General Graardor (or however it's spelled) needs like 40 kills before you can get into his room. Might seem small and irrelevant, but it just slows the process down and I dislike that a lot.
Giant Mole is an example of a low-level boss that takes no effort to get into, but it has no real rewards. Not even close to how good Barrows is.
All the "cool bosses" need a pretty high level account....At least from my perspective.
theres an anchronia or whatever island aka dino island where you build 3 totem pieces to get into gwd bosses with zero kill count. It resets once every 7 days where you just retouch the totem pole and go back to gwd kc free.
Welcome back my friend :D
As always, you pose a very interesting question. I think RuneScape is like Pokémon or Yu-Gi-Oh!, In the sense that many tried to imitate it, and there's plenty of "alternatives", for example:
Pokemon has Digimon.
Yu-Gi-Oh! has Magic the Gathering.
RuneScape has World of Warcraft.
What I'm trying to say is, RS has its own charm, it had its spinoffs (most of them dead), but trying to find something that fills that gap, is a fruitless effort.
Idk, it kinda became one with us? It's something that has become a part of yourself and it's hard to fill with anything else.
Mtg came out way before yugioh my guy
Pking was one of the reasons i sticked with rs for so long, u could hop in once in awhile and just get few kills and log off f2p pking ofc
Man, what's this Green lettres in bar buff?
The game isn’t fun anymore, mid game too easy, end game just a repetitive grind or pvm being too high demanding. The game in general leaves a lot to be desired
its also a shame knowing its a shell of what it once was, like the glory days are behind it, its sad
True, I go back time to time but I can never get runescape to stick
Are you crazy?....everyone isn't a PRO....like you it seems...I'm a high level BROKE guy. . Add me....help me....I'm SLAYMASTER X....UGHHHH
I liked MU online with chance to upgrade your armor higher and higher with rescources but there was also good chance that enchanting failed and gear was destroyed in the process. That gambling aspect made grinding more exciting. It took out resources out from the game like gear and resources used for upgrading so you didnt have to spend like 40 hours to get some decent loot while keeping its value. It was something like aiming for specific perks in the gizmo. Imagine the need for like 10 of bandos equipment counterpart required to upgrade your armor. It would refresh a lot of old content like DPS rings did with DKs.
I see your point but don’t entirely agree. Having collection logs and titles for bosses to grind to isn’t “endless content” it’s jus Grindy. Some people like that some don’t. I personally don’t so I always find myself switching up games before coming back to RuneScape. That’s the problem with RuneScape the Grindy content is like not life changingly attractive. It took me about two years to be bis in mage and almost bis in range and I’m very bored of the game now. Even if I get a BOLG or grind for bis meele it’s waaaaay too repetitive since you’re jus spamming the same stuff again and again till you get there. I’ve seen people bis all gear and then grind party hats whereas I could never imagine doing that since I enjoy the content itself not grinding out every tiny thing (in MMO’s, in single player games I find it fun). Compared to other MMORPG’s - ik like one other person irl who bothers with rs3 and my other friends usually play bigger /newer mmo’s which rs doesn’t really come close to in terms or combat or graphics (modern mmo’s). Great video as always tho! You’re my fav rs RUclipsr!
solo rago when?
I don’t care about the endgame pvm. It’s just something I’m not interested in. I do have low to mid bosses I go to. I’m still trying for the QBD pet and got one of the Dag Kings pets.
I’m more of a skiller/slayer/clues
I don’t play other MMOs
In this case I must say you have sold Lost Ark very short here. You mention you have played over 200 hours and have got to 1300 item level (I assume on only one character?) and refer to that as "end game". That's not even close to end game. Entry to end game is at least item level 1415 (for legion raids) on MULTIPLE different characters/alts. And this considered the very bare minimum to end game entry.
A crucial point of Lost Ark is it encourages you create several different alts to support you main character under your one account on your chosen server. All your characters SHARE the same pool of silver and gold, along with your rapport/stronghold activities. You can have up to 18 different characters/classes but you can only earn weekly gold on 6 of them. So if you're only playing on one character, of course you're going to run out of raids to do. However if you actively play on 6 different characters per weekly reset, you will hardly ever run out of things to do as you have to complete multiple raids on all of them to get your gold.
End game in Lost Ark (Western release) is having 6+ characters with at least item level 1490+ on all of them. I don't think you've played Lost Ark long enough to compare it properly with RS3 so most of the points you stated are not accurate at all as you missed a massive chunk of content.
You are right about the drops/loot though, they are not as RNG based as RS3 bosses. The real RNG is upgrading your item level. At higher levels (1475+), you will find you only have like a 2% or 3% chance to successfully hone/upgrade your item levels. And that's where the real grind comes in, getting all the materials to upgrade your main character by using alts.
RS3 end game is unique to a point, but I don't think it's on par with Lost Ark.
p.s. You didn't even mention Lost Ark has actual SAILING where you can travel to 100+ islands and do different quests/activities there! Not to mention the fun sailing mini-games! Can't say the same about RS3...yet!
I do have 2 alts, and just got above 1370 item level with the first abyss raid gear. And I know there's sailing and I think collectibles are a really fun part of the game, but I just find myself lacking any motivation to do anything or hold my interest with the end-game. I had a blast leveling up to that point, but after that I felt a bit meh. I think another thing that sucked was finally getting a raid unlocked going in, and having a lvl 1500 1shot everything and not being able to experience that soured the experience for a lot of them. And I did try party finder quite a few times with no luck at all even with another friend.
Not that Lost Ark is bad at all, but the end-game just sort of felt a lot lacking for the effort I put into it, but I guess I was expecting a bit more. The combat is the best I've played though, which is why I wish I had more interest in the end-game. Also the "Never running out of things to do" felt like even with my alts I would just login and repeat the same task everyday almost like doing dailies/farm runs on Runescape without any real big drop or item to "chase" that made it feel exciting. I think my problem could be more with the loot system rather than the timegatedness of bosses/raids. I still will continue to play and hopefully I find the fun in it again because I had a blast on my first character.
@@NuzzNuzz Ahhh fair enough, I understand. Yes you're right about the "repetitive" aspect when logging into each alt. At some point you do reach that "burnt out" feeling, especially with dailies. There's a lot of QOL updates that Smilegate should do to address this. But yea the combat is amazing, and graphics as well! And I'm pretty sure if you do keep playing and pushing your characters, you will enjoy the end game raids a lot.
By the way, thanks for making some great RS3 content with your videos on here. Keep it up!
Being trim comped and now only 6 skills and 140m xp away from trimmed master max comp cape being in end game is bitter sweet. I can focus on doing whatever boss I want, complete new content as soon as they come out without worrying about losing progress to other goals. But it gets boring as fuck…. Waiting week to week for the next update. I waited weeks for Fort forinthry only to complete it in 5 hours…. It’s worth getting to end game because getting there is fun… after that you have to find things to entertain you. There is plenty to entertain but gets boring from time to time😊
Put it this way, my RuneScape 3 character is around lvl 118 cb.
I haven't seen it since EOC.
My osrs puts my RS3 character to shame.
I still miss my original account that got banned, gave up trying to get it back, I swear they know there's billions of gp in discontinued items on there. 🤬
I don't like lost arks endgame because of the time gates. I also don't think new world has an endgame, it's too basic even though the combat is great (except muskets).
Past endgame was actually fun. In their poor attempt to capitalize on the modern mmo audience, they made the game worse.
I would say that Runescape conceptually is a lot about the journey TO endgame, but everyone who actually values that is playing OSRS.
I find it funny how WoW has a timegate in content so players are forced to do more content for gear upgrades. You can kill each boss in a raid once per week, and depends on rolling for a drop. If you are done with your raid kills, you rely basically on doing Mythic +. On the other hand, I haven't played Lost Ark that much, but they don't seem to restrict content so players have to do other content or even to cap the speed in which they get strong, but rather do it so players spend real money on the materials for upgrades.
Besides Raids in RS3, we don't have a lot of time gates for gear upgrades besides actually grinding that content, and killing bosses over and over to get the drops. But we are able to just spend IRL money on bonds and selling them for items.
I find that WoW is kind of in the middle of RS3 and Lost Ark, we can't spend money directly into actual good items. You can pay to leech content, ofc, but it isn't as blatant as the other two games.
Hey nuzz, is it meta too do nex in legacy? :o
if you think about current media consumption, and what appeals to younger people, it's things that don't require a lot of time. whether it's tiktok, or youtube shorts, instagram reels etc. new mmos, that target a younger auidence, are much more centric on endgame as quick as possible, even if it is underwhelming, whereas runescape still has its original charm, hence the mainly older playerbase
That's very true. Almost every game has a fast track to end game and or a catch up method that gets you to end game pretty fast. I've always enjoyed Runescape and constantly find myself coming back to enjoy it over and over. It definitely has its issues, but the overall experience and game play is amazing
Played WoW for 13 years but quit with the current expansion, The problem was time gated content for me, once you've done stuff the only thing to do was dungeons and raids and you spend a lot of time just waiting around Where as RS there are so many things you can do and start immediately and get right into it, Time gated content will be the death of most MMOs.
as i always said, runescape is the best game we have atm. i can't play any other shitty games.
that's the reason i enjoy ironmen more then normal scape. itt's all about the journey there
Dude WTF happened to RS.. I remember being there on the last day as a kid at the G.E if that still even exists waiting for the EOC update. That day literally more than half the community quit. Thanks for the amazing childhood RS. You will be missed, R.I.P 🙏🏻
rs/osrs end game is a million times better than other mmos. other mmos almost everything is untradeable and all end game content requires a team and is locked weekly. so unless you're really into weekly group pvm, what's the point in even upgrading your gear?
😂 almost a year ago I wanna say now, I started FF14 online. Omfg 🤬 🙀 the mechanics the ability’s the quests side quests leveling world etc etc so so so so so much to learn and keybinds were just not my comprehension style 😢😂. So I went back to OSRS for better part of 7-8yrs now 🫤🤔👀 but I’d log onto RS3 just to run daily stuff to like make money to keep membership on osrs. I’m just about at endgame osrs and I got burnt out from the click intensive grinding n came into FSW again maxed out quickly but quit the FSW account 😂to get back on the main account. But main thing is trying to get into them keybinds. That’s my kryptonite n I wanna become immune 😂 😅.
Yeah I found the exact same thing with Lost Ark, got to End Game and could see that the rest of the game was just doing chaos dungeons and boring as shit team raids and upgrading my gear (Which was essentially identical to my current gear just higher numbers). Like it all just felt artificial and pointless, I do -50% damage to this because my gear level is 1690 and this thing is 1700 type of shit, just meh nty
Nuzz, nuzz plays POE?????? :D
Runescape's endgame has always been about chasing the dopamine hit from big drops. It's gambling mechanics hidden behind an MMO.
What bout pvp
The area where Runescape beats all other mmo's is quests. Both RS3 and OSRS have a lot of thought put into how quests are completed. Pretty much all other mmo's quests are kill x amount of enemies or obtain x amount of items from enemies and maybe talk to a few npc's during quests. RS3/OSRS actually make you think (or follow quest guides).
New world end game is finished in looting chests... 3 attacking skills each class (WTF??)... And not to mention farming for keys and finally when you got it, you coldnt't find a party to finish it...
i think the game has too much artificial complexity, 10 switches doesn't feel satisfying to play with. i liked the game way more right before invention released..
Only change I’d make is RuneScape endgame every high end boss should have bad luck mitigation. Change ratios depending on difficulty but no one should go 2k kills no core at arch glacor. Or you start BLM at 1k enrage glacor. Just a thought.
endgame belong to the rich. No one remember skillers. give timber for the woodcutters! not pvmers!
But once you get to end game you can have more of a life with other mmorpgs. were you cant with RS and they use the addition factor to their advantage. and other MMO's you can go just as dry on items. ive gone dry 4 weeks without getting any loot from raids on wow(upgrades and non upgrade). i love RS cuz you can solo all content if you wanna but you have no life and addiction is a problem
runescape is a whole different game, I thought the same when playing lost ark it all seemed the same and a bit boring after a few hours
Making anything more complicated doesn't make it more interesting or enjoyable. Revolution is not equal to key bind madness. EOC means end of combat for many. A maxed player that can't get 70k damage at. Wilderness flash events because I can't see the targets over everyone else's animations and the game allows people to get way over 70k before I can somehow just doesn't seem even remotely fair to me.wheni get what I'm supposed to I just back off so others can get theirs on the non-combat parts. I guess I'm stupid or something. Hooray for Me...... And the He77 with you Jagex.
Grindscape is the way to go if it’s skilling or hunting drops 💦
I think runescape works better as an ironman cause then you dont care if they fuck up the market. Also there is never a question if you got gear the pay 2 win way or you actually played for it. Sad that they still shelved group iron man cause i think thats the best way osrs got friend groups building again. Also there is to mutch to unlock for new player to do fun bosses and everything that dosent need it feels like a slayer monster.
Mammoths killed me more then kree ara did.
I cant recomment runescape to friends cause we all work so if your not playing for years it takes to long to play together
Tbh people are too picky for a 20 year old game, because if they listened to all the whiny 1700 total levels- the game wouldnt have had a very long life span. Its time that most of you come to terms with knowing you have no idea how to make a game let alone manage one. Just enjoy what the game has to offer, as no 1 game is going to have it all, ever. Main thing i hear is MTX waahh but You get like 150 keys a month if you do daily challenges and log in every day. You still want an easier game- not a more rewarding one.
for a casual player like me, i don't feel like grinding super endgame bosses. It's too stressful for me. I mean I can do them. But it's such a hassle to grind.
End-endgame is quite boring to the point where a 4% damage boost is something exciting.
The scheme to keep players engaged over a long span of time works, however it has hidden costs. Like the fun of the experience, drops, setups, mechanics and teams being complete destroyed and the fun sucked out of the main selling point of the game.
As such I would personally say that It's not good outside of a Carlyle perspective, which is irrelevant to every player.
Now that they have nerfed the auras to the ground, IMO, where the cooldown only ticks when online, it really prevents me from chasing the casual approach I have planned for my end game gaming :/ Really bummer!
Not sure where you get your information from, but aura's recharge when offline. Active aura's no longer tick down when logged out. (besides green fingers)
Nerfed huh??? More like buffed and the opposite what you are saying 😂
New Subscribe from me so we can reach that SUB GOAL . . . . Just returned to RS3 on my 15 yr account
Eoc is simply not fun compared to every other standard mmo that uses abilities.
I will agree that while I like Modern Runescape combat, Lost Ark's combat was absolutely the best I've played, that's why it was disappointed with everything else the end-game had to offer. Nothing can match Runescape's charm and loot for me.
@Nuzz Nuzz the last good update for combat imo was the essence of finality bringing back old special attacks. I'd say that was the last time on rs3 i remember having a lot of fun with combat trying it out.
I completely disagree. Eoc adds a very steep learning curve to the combat system that alot of other games don't have, and that adds an extra level of satisfaction that others also do not have.
takes too long and the end game makes me want to rip my eyes out bad luck mitigation what?
LOST ARK ENDGAME SUCKS WIENER HAHAHA!!!
This game literally has no point to its mindless clicking
Lost ark is too p2w and too mobile like for me. Game's a joke. Weird most of the video is you talking and comparing lost ark to runescape.
That was what inspired the video, looking at lost ark endgame made me think about how Runescapes endgame works and if its as good as modern MMOs. I hope they stay in this direction and dont try to be like the more modern MMOs.
@@NuzzNuzz fair enough and I do agree.