Film Theory: Which Witch in Wicked is WICKED?

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  • Опубликовано: 31 дек 2024

Комментарии • 1,3 тыс.

  • @FilmTheory
    @FilmTheory  18 дней назад +284

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  • @BatAmerica
    @BatAmerica 16 дней назад +4285

    The fact that Glinda was singing nothing but high notes when celebrating Elphaba's death shows she's more heartbroken than anyone in Oz.

    • @curtdog647
      @curtdog647 16 дней назад +1207

      Fun fact - the director of the musical confirmed that the higher Glinda sings, the more she's lying.

    • @Olololog-xr7tm
      @Olololog-xr7tm 16 дней назад +359

      I just realised she was singing about herself in that song.

    • @BatAmerica
      @BatAmerica 16 дней назад +227

      @@curtdog647 That's interesting. No wonder this is her highest number.

    • @notyournormalg1
      @notyournormalg1 16 дней назад +353

      It’s all a show. When she grabs the torch you can see a different kind of determination in her eyes. But, she must be popular. She must maintain her influence otherwise, everything they worked for will fail.
      It’s masterful. It’s heart wrenching and it’s the perfect way for Glinda to show her grief.

    • @notyournormalg1
      @notyournormalg1 16 дней назад +55

      It’s all a show. When she grabs the torch you can see a different kind of determination in her eyes. But, she must be popular. She must maintain her influence otherwise, everything they worked for will fail.
      It’s masterful. It’s heart wrenching and it’s the perfect way for Glinda to show her grief.

  • @laviinderartiste
    @laviinderartiste 16 дней назад +2800

    I like that you pointed out how Glinda wasn’t “wicked” since many just assume she’s the evil one when they see how Elphaba is the good one. Lawful neutral is def an accurate way to say it

    • @KindaAverageArtist
      @KindaAverageArtist 15 дней назад +37

      Yeah after watching the movie she is annoying sure, but not truly evil.

    • @KindaAverageArtist
      @KindaAverageArtist 15 дней назад +37

      She isn’t the worst in my opinion, but she cares way to much about her image.

    • @10limak
      @10limak 15 дней назад +10

      Popularity as a goal itself, not to make any real good, power for a sake of position - its all evil.

    • @Roxxie-The-Imp
      @Roxxie-The-Imp 15 дней назад +3

      @@KindaAverageArtistI think a lot of people were confused like that too tbh 😅

    • @TheIsaacHour
      @TheIsaacHour 15 дней назад +4

      @@KindaAverageArtistto be honest though, who doesn’t?

  • @freedompancakes301
    @freedompancakes301 16 дней назад +1837

    Neither are wicked imo. I think they both represent people’s response to tyranny/injustice/abuse of power. Glinda acts within the system, disagreeing with it, but still too scared to do anything that would destroy her reputation. However Glinda can still see the good in people who are ostracized by general society, even if she can’t always stand up for them(though she notably did during the Ozdust).
    Elphaba has always been outcasted and thus is more outspoken and willing to call out abuse of power even if it ruins her reputation because she never had a clean one to begin with. This has led to her being more abrasive, but deep down she can see the good in people too.
    Glinda clearly comes from a privileged and wealthy background, and has natural charm that allows her to get what she wants from everyone. However, after she is humbled throughout the movie she does grow from that.

    • @Newton-Reuther
      @Newton-Reuther 16 дней назад +44

      Glinda doesn't disagree with the system. Her "disagreements" are done for clout

    • @robbyroba
      @robbyroba 16 дней назад +34

      Yup. She even changed her name for conventional reasons than true convictions.

    • @homerman76
      @homerman76 16 дней назад +41

      ​@@Newton-Reuther That's really not true, too many things disagree with this assertion when you dig deeper, especially when you look at the second act. The thing is, it's hard to change anything when you have 0 influence

    • @Nohandle1125
      @Nohandle1125 16 дней назад +17

      I’m only taking the first half into consideration. I saw the musical earlier this year but I don’t remember it enough of debate that part.
      Glinda is Wicked because she’s complicit in the subjugation of the animals and allowed her “best friend” to be villainised all because it didn’t benefit her to do differently. Glinda had the power to make the entire school hate Elphaba. Glinda had the power to make the entire school love Elphaba.
      Glinda operated purely off of likability politics and understood that money, intelligence, or power meant nothing if you’re not “popular”.

    • @tym9080
      @tym9080 16 дней назад +15

      Glinda is complicit and wouldn’t say disagree.

  • @toomanyfandoms9044
    @toomanyfandoms9044 16 дней назад +1375

    0:37 "As someone who isn't typically into broadway" And that was when Lee got fired by Theatre Kid Matpat

    • @quetz_al3761
      @quetz_al3761 16 дней назад +17

      😂

    • @ColeAndPhoebeForever
      @ColeAndPhoebeForever 16 дней назад +136

      Yeah, I'm surprised MatPat didn't show up and say: "Okay, I'm taking over this theory. You're gonna tick off all the theaaater kids, like me, in the audience."

    • @caril.9384
      @caril.9384 16 дней назад +6

      @@ColeAndPhoebeForever same

    • @purplepedantry
      @purplepedantry 16 дней назад +1

      ​@@ColeAndPhoebeForever
      I was at least thinking that he'd give the boy a hearty slap xD

    • @cesardeleon2060
      @cesardeleon2060 15 дней назад +32

      I know that MatPat is smiling right now, whispering "One of Us"

  • @layla9319
    @layla9319 16 дней назад +1027

    As a longtime fan of the musical, seeing so many of my favorite mainstream content creators talking about it has been pure bliss.

    • @CrazyAve813
      @CrazyAve813 16 дней назад +11

      Same

    • @shadebug
      @shadebug 14 дней назад +4

      Sure but they do seem to have spent a long time trying to deduce the whole premise of the musical

    • @gracie-ew3qg
      @gracie-ew3qg 12 дней назад +3

      @@shadebug For real, calling some of this "theorizing" is hilarious to me. It's like the internet just discovered foreshadowing.

    • @shadebug
      @shadebug 12 дней назад +3

      @@gracie-ew3qg at least the Carlin brothers are out there coming up with theories for things that are technically revealed in the second film (assuming you’re skilled at dodging subtextual bricks being thrown at your face) like “who will be the scarecrow and Tim man?”
      That said, I do kinda wanna see a bunch of theories for people that are going into films with no idea what this is. “Could it be that dragons aren’t completely wild and could, in fact, be trained?”, “will this bumbling panda, in fact, be the key to unifying the different types of kung fu”, “could it be that the mushroom kingdom isn’t in the New York sewers at all?”, “does this mild mannered Metropolis reporter have a secret to hide?”, “what if this kid really can see dead people?”, and so on.
      I think it’s got legs

  • @GHreyLas3271
    @GHreyLas3271 16 дней назад +703

    Bro literally made the Broadway nerds and the Tabletop nerds kiss for this theory.
    Bravo, good sir.

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад +13

      Honestly, I'm just glad they're covering something BESIDES analog horror, some ARG, or fnaf... because that stuff gets old after awhile, especially when you need to do a bloody scavenger hunt JUST to know a few names or dates, infuriating.

  • @margarethmichelina5146
    @margarethmichelina5146 16 дней назад +462

    Also, in the opening scene, where Glinda and The Munckins are singing, "No One Mourns The Wicked", if you listen closely, Glinda sounds like she's trying to hold her cry. She's the only one who mourns her former best friend / roommate while the others celebrated.

    • @joshuaescoto9750
      @joshuaescoto9750 15 дней назад +37

      Her acting in this opening scene was so good

    • @tiffanynelson1879
      @tiffanynelson1879 15 дней назад +26

      But would she admit to mourning - no. It would ruin he popularity. I'm sorry I just don't think she's good. Maybe neutral is a better way to put it but she's so so very self centered and selfish that that is def evil traits. Doing good things only for the sake of personal gain is D and D evil. It is

    • @xoFyxoL
      @xoFyxoL 12 дней назад +10

      @@tiffanynelson1879 I totally understand what you are saying but it feels like to me that she and Elphaba are both not wicked, she does things for popularity yes, but her entire worth has been decided by how she is viewed for so long, thats how she connected with Elphaba on the dance floor, thats what draws them together, yes they both care about appearances its just that Elphaba pretends not to.

    • @bassgiraffe
      @bassgiraffe 8 дней назад +6

      @@tiffanynelson1879the second movie will explain why she has to maintain this image. As long as the movie follows the stage version.

  • @ThomasLJonesJr
    @ThomasLJonesJr 16 дней назад +601

    Theory: The main villian/wicked witch is Madame Morrible. She controls the weather. Anti-Animal sentiment was caused by the drought.
    **possible spoiler if you haven't seen the play**
    Dorothy's house was dropped on Nessa by a tornado that Madame Morrible created. Also, Morrible = Horrible.

    • @starksann635
      @starksann635 16 дней назад +53

      In the books, Nessa could be considered the worst. In the movie, though, I totally agree.

    • @margarethmichelina5146
      @margarethmichelina5146 16 дней назад

      Also, she's using Elphaba's magic to make those monkeys have wings to be her and The Wizard's spies so they can make the animals won't speak anymore. And she must be the one who wrote "Animals can be seen not be heard" at Dr Dillamond's classroom chalkboard. She also threw Elphaba under the bus when Elphaba just wants to help the animals.
      And The so called Wizard himself is a fraud, he can't do magic and he's just a regular man who got stranded in Oz.

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад +6

      Interesting take, i don't keep up with Oz related stuff, but I do like that idea.

    • @benwagner5089
      @benwagner5089 16 дней назад +18

      I suspected that Nessa was the Wicked Witch of the East somehow, since they focused on her fancy shoes so much. Not sure yet how she gets "evil" or how the slippers turn red.

    • @cathygrandstaff1957
      @cathygrandstaff1957 16 дней назад

      @@benwagner5089Well in the play she steals the Tin Man’s heart because she falls in love with him and wants to force him to love her. Which more or less aligns with her depiction in the book where she rules her territory with an iron fist and when the tin woodsman falls in love with one of her servants and seeks to marry her she enchants his axe to chop him into pieces.

  • @aSentientWatermelon
    @aSentientWatermelon 16 дней назад +133

    Throughout all this Elphaba-Galinda discourse in the past few weeks, this may be my favorite take. One thing I keep going back to is one of the main lessons from "Into the Woods": nice is different than good. Elphaba is good, Galinda is nice.

    • @alexinitalics188
      @alexinitalics188 14 дней назад +12

      "I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right. I'm the witch, you're the world" is also a brilliant descriptor for Elphaba in Act 2

  • @PokeTom-y4r
    @PokeTom-y4r 16 дней назад +252

    Haven't watched it, but my guess is:
    Elphaba: Chaotic Good
    Glinda: Lawful Neutral
    Nessarose: Neutral Evil

    • @Itzmoonlightfam
      @Itzmoonlightfam 16 дней назад +25

      They didn't do Nessarose but you got Glinda and Elphaba correct

    • @xxstarbrite02xx30
      @xxstarbrite02xx30 16 дней назад +5

      hang on how is nessa evil?

    • @GigiMurakami
      @GigiMurakami 16 дней назад +12

      I’ve seen the musical and the movie. This is accurate 😂

    • @kiki234844
      @kiki234844 16 дней назад

      ​@xxstarbrite02xx30 she sees her sister get bullied and starts ignoring her because of that
      SPOILER ALERT
      She shrinks Boq's heart and turns the munchkins into slaves

    • @andrewbouse8968
      @andrewbouse8968 16 дней назад +19

      @@xxstarbrite02xx30 stuff in act two, but I won't be a spoiler and give you specifics

  • @MoiraMcGill
    @MoiraMcGill 16 дней назад +107

    Elphaba isn't chaotic just because she isn't lawful. Not to mention how lawful doesn't necessarily mean following the law. It means having clear morals/personal boundaries that are strictly adhered to. She should absolutely fall under lawful with her unwavering morals and values. In face of everything and everyone against her, she didn't compromise her own self and character.
    Galinda/Glinda is honestly a *lot* more chaotic than Elphaba since she doesn't have strong morals at all. She'll easily change her morals/viewpoint based on others because being popular and liked (and a powerful sorcerer) is most important to her (hence the song Popular). She'd more than likely be true nuetral because, again, being lawful doesn't means literally following the laws...

    • @cathygrandstaff1957
      @cathygrandstaff1957 16 дней назад +15

      No being lawful means following what society wants, whereas being chaotic means following what you want. For example chaotic characters can have a strong moral code, but if it starts butting heads with society’s moral code they’ll choose their own moral code while lawful characters are more likely to bow to society’s wishes. While this can be because of being a popularity chaser it can also show humility and a willingness to listen to others. Elphaba ultimately becomes evil because while she may want to do good she’s lazy and self-absorbed so most of the “good” she does turns bad.

    • @ansri24
      @ansri24 15 дней назад +3

      but the 'laws' are set in place already, laws dont equal morals (not in Oz at least) so yes she is chaotic.

    • @MoiraMcGill
      @MoiraMcGill 15 дней назад +11

      @@ansri24 seriously, you guys are taking the "law" part of lawful too literally. Just like the chaotic alignment doesn't literally mean a chaotic character is "in a state of complete confusion and disorder" (the literal definition), neither does lawful refer strictly to someone who follows the law. They are general terms used to help categorise characters so that people have an easier time knowing how a PC/NPC should re/act.
      I've already linked sources that prove what I said (including WotC official material). So, either read and enlighten yourself or just keep believing whatever you want.
      Edit: Nevermind, apparently my comment that had the links was removed...But, seriously, just look it up. The definitions being so literal was not what WotC had in mind and it *is* supposed to be as I stated in my original comment

    • @jypsridic
      @jypsridic 15 дней назад +2

      @@cathygrandstaff1957 no it doesn't. grow up.

    • @cathygrandstaff1957
      @cathygrandstaff1957 15 дней назад +1

      @@jypsridic Take your own advice kiddo.

  • @harutakami1313
    @harutakami1313 16 дней назад +112

    A Movie adaptation of a Play which is a rehashing of a Novel which is itself a Fanfiction of the original 40 Oz books. Truly a wild journey.

  • @jare3959
    @jare3959 16 дней назад +114

    The cape was an amazing visual throwback to the stage effects. But I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that about the length 😆

  • @L0vely_b0nes96
    @L0vely_b0nes96 15 дней назад +27

    I love when people can actually comprehend the movies they're watching. We'll see Elphie do her fair share of "evil" in part two, the story in and of itself is about how everyone is capable of both good and evil. So seeing a take where Glinda wasn't immediately written off as the bad guy is refreshing.

  • @KM-nu7vj
    @KM-nu7vj 16 дней назад +79

    Glinda giving a hat to Elphaba being listed as good, when it was really FULLY her bullying her, made me angry, even though I KNEW it would surely be corrected. I was furious even knowing it would be addressed later.

    • @Ray_Vun
      @Ray_Vun 16 дней назад +21

      sharing her bedroom and changing her name were also listed as good actions. idk why he tried to make some sort of misdirect with that. none of those were good actions. the bedroom was a misunderstanding, the hat was bullying and the name change was attention seeking

    • @cullenlatham2366
      @cullenlatham2366 16 дней назад +5

      well, that depends on how much faith you believe glinda had for elphy. It is not the case, but with full confidence that it would match her wardrobe, it could be completely altruistic. What we actually get is the implication that it is a prank; elphy can make it work, shrug off the drama, or will completely ignore the gift knowing it isnt fashionable inherently (a skill glinda might assume because it is all she knows). It is only if you believe the gift was completely and inherently malicious with full understanding of the consequences that it makes me angry at her Wicked behavior. But it is important to note that glinda was willing to act on her guilt, Witch does show she underestimated the consequences.

    • @moonwalkerangel7008
      @moonwalkerangel7008 4 дня назад

      ​​@@cullenlatham2366I do agree giving Elphie the hat was an act of bullying, but Glinda was also in the presence of her friends so it would have been considered as performative action. When she changes her name, it was performative activism (an action considered good to the public especially since she said that in front of a crowd but is doing it so Fireyo will admire her).

  • @DarkcIoud1111.
    @DarkcIoud1111. 16 дней назад +31

    I would say Glinda is like Lawful Neutral. She isn't willing to step out of the laws in place by the Wizard, performing good actions for selfish reasons, and her only real motivation is how something will benefit her or those close to her.

  • @faizahmohammedaruwa
    @faizahmohammedaruwa 16 дней назад +185

    I'm surprised Amy didn't come kicking and screaming into this episode and reporting you Lee to Dadpat for stealing HER franchise now 😂💖✨️💫

    • @jaketaller8567
      @jaketaller8567 16 дней назад +2

      It was never her franchise to begin with.

    • @faizahmohammedaruwa
      @faizahmohammedaruwa 16 дней назад +13

      @jaketaller8567 Wicked is SO Style Theory coded. Plus I only say this cause she's made like 2 videos already and the bit is Lee waits for the others to talk about certain topics and then "steals" it and "claims" it as a film theory.
      Anyway, this is all in good fun and not meant to be taken seriously! 🫰🏽💝

  • @daniellekazemzadeh7886
    @daniellekazemzadeh7886 16 дней назад +13

    "Goodness is not goodness that seeks advantage.
    Good is good in the final hour...
    In the deepest pit without hope...
    Without witness, without reward."
    River Song

  • @DeannaNewton-d7x
    @DeannaNewton-d7x 16 дней назад +86

    When I first watched Wicked in theaters with my sisters, it got me thinking how there are talking animals in Oz as well as how they were persecuted. It also made me realize how The Cowardly Lion is the way he is in The Wizard of Oz as well as why Elphaba is so protective of her sister, Nessa. Not to mention how she was angry at Dorothy for "killing" her sister when sh didn't, her house just fell on her and it's not like she poored water on Elphaba either, she was trying to help the Scarecrow who was on fire that she caused, by the way. Which does make me realize that she's more chaotic than "wicked" even when I rewatched The Wizard of Oz after watching Wicked due to how she lashed at Dorothy. As far as Glinda goes, I would argue that there are good things that she does that are genuinely good and other good things that don't exactly count as "good things" because she seems to care a lot about her "image" and her "reputation" in school as the "good person" when in reality it seems to come off as passive aggressive. Whether she meant to do it or not just shows that she wasn't as mature compared to Ephaba in Wicked as far as "goodness" considering that the wizard and the teacher just see her attempts of "goodness" as a transactional exchange which in itself doesn't count as good in the moral sense. I WILL admit that in The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy first met Glinda she was surprised to hear that she was a witch after Dorothy told her "you don't look like a witch," Glinda didn't make any slide remarks on Dorothy's outfit or become defensive after what she said because Glinda "MATURED" after the events of Wicked. It even shows at the beginning of Wicked where Glinda wanted to set the record straight to the Munchkins and you can see how hesitant she was to burn the straw statue of her friend because in her heart they were still friends, even if they don't see eye to eye with one another.

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад +8

      Yeah... thats the thing with what few fantasy things I've read/watched/played, the folks in power, who the MC is usually working for, ain't as good as they may seem, honestly, I've ALWAYS had my suspicions about the Royal family in the Zelda franchise.

  • @sabinalupu5744
    @sabinalupu5744 15 дней назад +11

    I'm honestly glad they split it into two parts, like that's way better then trying to condense sit all to 2 hrs and miss the whole essence

  • @Shizuo35
    @Shizuo35 16 дней назад +19

    .....I appreciate the use of the element of kindness Fluttershy there. Got me smiling a little

  • @Onyx_all
    @Onyx_all 16 дней назад +124

    That cloak got so huge in that one scene 😅

    • @snorlaxshorts746
      @snorlaxshorts746 16 дней назад +3

      I was the only one with that reaction in my theater 😅😂

    • @RagnarokMaster
      @RagnarokMaster 16 дней назад +18

      It's a reference to the Broadway show. At the end of Act 1, during Defying Gravity, the actress playing Elphaba is hooked up to wires and has an elongated cloak to give the illusion of flight.
      But, I also had to laugh at just how big they made her cloak too XD

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад +2

      Magic singing cloak, nuff said.

  • @dblonde7
    @dblonde7 16 дней назад +33

    Also, the "good" things Glinda does are not truly good, they are either accidents or convenient for herself (she's trying to talk to Madame Morrible about the sorcery seminar, she wants Boq out of the way so she can be with Fiero, excreta)

    • @RenTheWren
      @RenTheWren 15 дней назад +4

      (Did you mean etcetera?)

    • @dutchik5107
      @dutchik5107 5 дней назад +3

      Or downright mean.
      Like inviting her to the ozdust. Giving her the hat. Etc.

  • @NerdByAnyOtherName
    @NerdByAnyOtherName 16 дней назад +62

    I'd argue that Elphaba is absolutely Good, just not Chaotic
    One thing that a lot of people get wrong about the Lawful vs. Chaotic part of the Alignment Chart is that Lawful doesn't mean following _the_ Law, it means strictly sticking to _a_ set of principles.
    Batman is a vigilante who exists starkly in opposition to _the_ Law by definition but he has iron clad principles and lines that he refuses to cross even if doing so would further his goals (killing the Joker would stop him from committing more crimes/killing more people) and is thus Lawful Good. The Joker in contrast is Chaotic not because he is a criminal but because he is impulsive and will absolutely drop whatever he is doing the moment something more interesting catches his attention (like stopping mid-scheme to fight Batman)
    Elphaba helps people/the talking animals/etc. not because she has a personal code about helping people, neither does she do it simply because she felt like it at the time. She does it because she is a good person and helping others comes naturally from the roots of her character making her firmly Neutral Good.
    Glinda is absolutely Lawful though, she has "bought into" the laws/logic of society to a degree that she refuses to oppose them even when she has a personal motivation to.

    • @StaticR
      @StaticR 15 дней назад +3

      I feel like there's another axis to lawful vs. chaotic. If being "lawful" means to adhere to a set of principles, whose principles are they? Are these principles something you hold on your own, or are they based on the expectations and ideals of others?
      One who strictly follows their own moral judgement irrespective of societies expectations and one who strictly follows the morals others seem to expect from them could both be doing it with only the goodest of intentions, yet they both are in conflict as they disagree what is considered good and the right way to do good.
      Personally I see the lawful vs. chaotic thing as whether or not you seek to follow the expectations put fourth by others or whether you seek to break them. I feel like that makes more sense and is more flexible in terms of interpretation.

    • @GamestaMechanic
      @GamestaMechanic 15 дней назад +4

      You lost me at calling batman lawful good, you're completely wrong about how alignment charts are supposed to be interpreted. The Joker also has boundaries he doesn't cross, that doesn't make him not chaotic! The lawful principles being followed are SOCIETY's general views/consensus at that moment, which does not technically make it the law, but it usually is the law. It's not about what the character's principles/beliefs are, that's ridiculous and would make charts like this completely opinionated with 0 fact, objectivity, or have any true thought going into it.

  • @longing_for_rainy_days
    @longing_for_rainy_days 7 дней назад +3

    As a disabled theatre kid, if ANYONE in Wicked is wicked (other than the Wizard and the other obvious) it's Nessarose. You don't become a ruthless dictator for love, especially to the point that your sister even travels across the nation to enchant your shoes to enable walking at one last ditch effort to show you love from someone other than your boyfriend.

  • @mattpalmer4068
    @mattpalmer4068 16 дней назад +37

    I hope that you guys eventually delve into the Wicked book series. I'm rereading it now and I forgot how seep and mysterious Gregory Maguire's writing can be! It's immersive and hints at so many different things!

  • @EditorHeart
    @EditorHeart 16 дней назад +162

    *My Notification Said : Wicked 🚨*

  • @sutarikun
    @sutarikun 16 дней назад +8

    My theory is that Wicked, as a musical overall, is a sequel to the book (historical revisionism and all), and the same can be applied to the movies. Glinda is telling the story of Elphaba in a way to move society in a way that fits both her and Elphaba's motives that could not be handled purely by Elphaba's more ardent actions. Think the Mattachine Society or the nonviolent resistance/civil disobedience movements and the more violent movements that accompanied the, and how both of them were kind of needed to accomplish everything.
    Glinda is rewriting Elphaba's worst actions to be more palatable to other Ozians who would never sympathize with a book Elphaba, who was more neutral and angry: think about how much more we find out about the softer movements that were calculated that were spun to be accidental or happenstance: that's exactly what Glinda is doing. She is making sure people are prepped to be more sympathetic to Elphaba and less supportive to her. In the book both are much more neutral.

  • @themechanichaldragonseeker
    @themechanichaldragonseeker 16 дней назад +126

    I didnt expect a theory on this film!

    • @arthurmartin4616
      @arthurmartin4616 16 дней назад +1

      Especially so soon considering how late they have been sometimes

    • @Newton-Reuther
      @Newton-Reuther 16 дней назад +7

      Not really a theory. This is the plot of Wicked.

    • @kennethyoung7564
      @kennethyoung7564 16 дней назад +10

      @@Newton-Reuther its really gone down hill since the original guy stopped. I mean this is just the standard plot/interpretation to wicked. No film theory to this video.

    • @lexnight8345
      @lexnight8345 16 дней назад +1

      I mean... there is no need for it anyway. Average movies don't need theories 😅

    • @Ray_Vun
      @Ray_Vun 16 дней назад +3

      and you still didn't get one because this isn't a theory, it's just a summary of the movie

  • @AJ-we8fl
    @AJ-we8fl 16 дней назад +28

    Not much of a theory because this is kind of just the plot and character descriptions. But I’m glad the movie is so good everyone wants to talk about it.

  • @VanNessy97
    @VanNessy97 16 дней назад +12

    Elphaba's Chaotic Good, Glinda's Lawful Neutral, and The Wizard of Oz is Lawful Evil.

    • @cullenlatham2366
      @cullenlatham2366 16 дней назад +1

      i am not fully sold on calling the wizard lawful if it is implied he MADE the rules he follows, but...

  • @CrazyAve813
    @CrazyAve813 16 дней назад +43

    I've seen the musical and it is definitely that Glenda gets power hungry, and Elphaba runs away with Sierra

    • @osmosisjones4912
      @osmosisjones4912 16 дней назад +9

      Valuing motive over results is biggest slippery slope to evil while thinking your good

    • @cacklebabygg6156
      @cacklebabygg6156 16 дней назад +5

      She attacked him, if im correct hes the scarecrow who she lights on fire and the monkeys pull out all the stuffing in him later, also when dorthy leaves hes decidedly not missing, hes right there. Or if its the tin man, still has the monkeys break him and hes also there when dorthy leaves

    • @CrazyAve813
      @CrazyAve813 16 дней назад +5

      @ i'm not completely sure about the fire part. I think it is that she puts a spell on him to make him last forever. He turns into a scarecrow and they take them away, but he becomes part of the royal guard so he could search for before this

    • @keyblademasterclark
      @keyblademasterclark 16 дней назад +5

      Fieryo is the scarecrow and Boq is the tin man. Both are transformed by Elphaba as a way to save their lives.

    • @CrazyAve813
      @CrazyAve813 16 дней назад

      @ ik

  • @deepseastonecore3017
    @deepseastonecore3017 16 дней назад +21

    Why doesn't a witch wear a flat hat?
    Because there's no point to it.

  • @s-for-success-for-s
    @s-for-success-for-s 14 дней назад +4

    Glinda manifested a lot of narcissistic traits,
    But she also showed redemption halfway in the movie.
    Elphie, on the other hand, showed nothing but kindness and selflessness, especially to those who are oppressed.

  • @greenquartz8554
    @greenquartz8554 14 дней назад +7

    Ok, the lawful part of the alignment chart doesn't mean rule following or following the law, it means that you have a strong moral compass that you stick to for better or worse, a lawful character can definitely go against the rule of a kingdom and I'd say that the "wicked" witch would be lawful good since she has a strong moral code that she follows throughout the whole movie

  • @YannickJur
    @YannickJur 6 дней назад +2

    This video was like a rollercoaster of who did what with which motivation in the movie. Very well written!

  • @kennyholmes5196
    @kennyholmes5196 16 дней назад +5

    Fun fact, there's an Expanded version of the chart for those who fall into the lines on the condensed chart, for those who have more nuance to them. Truly FULLY expanding the chart would turn it into a pair of spectrums, good versus evil and lawfulness versus chaoticity.

  • @SpookyClover
    @SpookyClover 16 дней назад +6

    Glinda and elphie give off Sofie and Agatha vibes from The School For Good and Evil

  • @superp25
    @superp25 16 дней назад +38

    Glinda giving the hat wasn't a good action. It was an attempt to set Elphaba up to be mocked. What movie did you watch?

    • @KM-nu7vj
      @KM-nu7vj 16 дней назад +10

      Yeah I felt like that wasn't addressed enough...

    • @LeviWithV
      @LeviWithV 16 дней назад +4

      I see it more as a kinda naive "It might be funny", or a prank, but she wasn't willing to hurt Elphaba. In the dance scene, Galinda realize that she's done wrong and was mean, and though she never admit it, she still make amends by trying to fix it.

    • @KM-nu7vj
      @KM-nu7vj 15 дней назад +1

      @@LeviWithV Still wasn't a "good" thing to do, which the video here seemed to paint it as. It's just a wild take to have, to say that what was clearly an unwanted accident (roommate) or an intentional bullying/prank (hat) to go in the "good" column.

  • @TMDTheMaskDirector-ye5oe
    @TMDTheMaskDirector-ye5oe 16 дней назад +11

    Wicked deleted scene:
    Worker: (running to Glinda) You’re neutralness, it’s a green alert!
    Glinda: (unaffected) If I don’t survive tell my roommate hello.
    Context: 16:14

  • @yevaud6
    @yevaud6 16 дней назад +9

    1:30 It was spit into two because of "Defying Gravity". It's a highnote of the show...literally, and as such, the events during that number are a natural stopping point for the audience to be at their peak excitement for what's next when leaving the theater. Simplest answer, period.

  • @ryantheidiot982
    @ryantheidiot982 16 дней назад +12

    Exhibit A on what happens when the ONE theater kid on the channel retires.

  • @Aleadfarmer904
    @Aleadfarmer904 16 дней назад +9

    “You’ll be surprised where they end up” proceeds to say nothing surprising.

    • @LEOxMARSh
      @LEOxMARSh 14 дней назад

      That’s because it would spoil Part 2 of the movie

    • @Aleadfarmer904
      @Aleadfarmer904 14 дней назад

      @ then why make the video now telling us nothing of substance if you actually watched the movie?

    • @LEOxMARSh
      @LEOxMARSh 14 дней назад

      Idk what you’re asking

  • @Walkman05YT
    @Walkman05YT 16 дней назад +28

    Idk about the story and themes but, the MUSIC WAS SO GOOD

  • @colelowe2122
    @colelowe2122 16 дней назад +4

    It makes a lot of sense. Many people think chaos = evil, even though you can clearly be be chaotic and good.

  • @TheMediocreArachnid-Man
    @TheMediocreArachnid-Man 16 дней назад +63

    0:12 Bruv just learned the point of the story we’d all rather have the the disneyverse

  • @jacksykes4680
    @jacksykes4680 16 дней назад +10

    Nobody tell him what happens in Act 2 and keep it up all year

  • @mitochondria1065
    @mitochondria1065 16 дней назад +52

    0:26 Slay Lee! 🤩

    • @Lefty-qe2dq
      @Lefty-qe2dq 16 дней назад +4

      He ate left no crumbs

  • @TheCultureshock101
    @TheCultureshock101 6 дней назад +3

    After seeing this theory, I would like to see where Sophie and Agatha from The School for Good and Evil fall on the alignment chart. Both the versions from the books and the movie. It would be a deep dive, but so is everything else on this channel!

  • @beltingtokra
    @beltingtokra 16 дней назад +6

    Glinda is the ultimate fence-sitter tbh

  • @EbenValentine
    @EbenValentine 16 дней назад +24

    8:20 to skip sponsor

  • @RadioWaves-u6g
    @RadioWaves-u6g 16 дней назад +9

    I think the point is that neither of them are wicked?

  • @playlistzonlinek6818
    @playlistzonlinek6818 16 дней назад +9

    Film theory really be poppin off lately. This may be my fav theory channel now

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад

      Welcome to the club pal, hope you like over analyzing fictional characters and things. (=

  • @StarlessNightDragons
    @StarlessNightDragons 12 дней назад +2

    Elphaba really isn't evil. She really is just cleaning up other people's messes.

  • @Iasm521
    @Iasm521 16 дней назад +7

    14:08 (OK I just wanna say before posting this I am not racist) I wouldn’t say it’s never a problem. There are definitely many times when your skin color can be a problem. For example, if you have a disease that changes your skin color I would say your skin color changing is a bit of a problem.

    • @adriannaruiz8717
      @adriannaruiz8717 16 дней назад +2

      I would say to your point that Oz is a magical place where’s animals can talk and the impossible can happen. I would ask “hey, why is your skin that color if you don’t mind me asking?” Before automatically thinking there something wrong, or that it’s a problem to be fixed.

    • @Iasm521
      @Iasm521 16 дней назад

      @@adriannaruiz8717 your statement is not wrong, but I was not replying to the statement where he said “ skin color is never a problem” but specifically the never part of that statement. I agree that her skin color is not a problem in universe, but I disagree that having green skin would not be a problem in our universe.

    • @adriannaruiz8717
      @adriannaruiz8717 16 дней назад

      @ right but regardless of the context of which universe it takes place, Glinda is still rude. Something being abnormal on a stranger and you offering to fix their abnormality when you don’t know why the persons skin is a different color (and the fact because she’s has a lack of real of power and couldn’t fix the problem anyway) is rude, and performative.

    • @c.jishnu378
      @c.jishnu378 15 дней назад

      Who tf cares about which universe she's in? If you have a different colour skin compared to all and nobody ever has had a different colour skin before, then that means it's wrong.

    • @treeco262
      @treeco262 15 дней назад

      Jaundice was my first thought

  • @SuperAtheist
    @SuperAtheist 16 дней назад +5

    "I find Green Face to be reprehensible."
    -- The Hulk

  • @Your_average_kid
    @Your_average_kid 16 дней назад +22

    Hmmm so can you do a BFDI theory, a ITFT theory, a one theory, a II theory. Or what I’m asking is, can you please, PLEASE, make an object show theory?

    • @AugustOfFroggest
      @AugustOfFroggest 16 дней назад +1

      Object show fan finally wanting a theory from film theorythats respective

    • @july8558-z1y
      @july8558-z1y 16 дней назад

      Fellow OSC fans spotted, yipee

  • @Barkugou420
    @Barkugou420 15 дней назад +1

    1:22 The reason why Wicked works being split into two parts is the first movie is already longer than the play itself and the ending is essentially the intermission point of the play.

  • @CatWithAScarf
    @CatWithAScarf 16 дней назад +113

    Lee. While these points are all valid to explore, this is hardly a theory video. This is just the point of the story. At most, it's an exploration of DnD alignment charts and specifying that Glinda is "lawful neutral." This feels like when a student writes a book report that just summarizes the plot and provides text to show that the plot did indeed happen. Like... at least it proves that the student read the book, but they didn't make or prove an argument, you know? This video could've easily been a fun RUclips short ("Where would our Wicked witches lie on an alignment chart?"), but this is not a theory. A FILM theory.

    • @rukeyazu8669
      @rukeyazu8669 16 дней назад +7

      Yeah… I was thinking the same thing while watching the video.

    • @anicrue
      @anicrue 16 дней назад +20

      This theory was less a theory and more so an example that Lee has basic media literacy.
      "Yes, we did notice the underlying themes that people aren't what they first seem, or what media tells you they are. Yes, we did pick up on the overt themes of systematic oppression and racism, it's not subtle. Yes, we do know that Glinda/Galinda isn't terrible but is rather self-absorbed and beholden to the systems around her, she had a whole character arc about those, that's what "Hope you're happy now" was about."

    • @catburner1896
      @catburner1896 16 дней назад +8

      The irony about what you say is that this the most theory theory any of the channels have done at that point, because it is easily proven and disproven. Yet it isn’t disproven, making it more befitting an academic theory than anything else.
      Plus it’s educational which as a long time lover of theorist’s educational set up, I love.

    • @Tyler-q3k
      @Tyler-q3k 16 дней назад +4

      Hey, ya got a point pal, but nowadays, they either do this, or something on weird indie horror, and we've had enough of that in the last few months.

    • @Ray_Vun
      @Ray_Vun 16 дней назад +3

      wicked is incredibly popular rn and everyone is talking about it, so they gotta do at least one video about it and film theory definitely fits on the channel that should make a video, style theory being the only other of their channels that can cover it. but the video should be instead trying to predict act 2 or guess what is going on with the animals or something like that. instead of just literally telling us what the movie told us "elphaba isn't bad, glinda isn't good"

  • @yemlem26
    @yemlem26 15 дней назад +1

    So glad that wicked is popular in the mainstream finally. I find Glinda so interesting. She is a horrible bully and manipulator to many, however she is not completely void of empathy. Spoiler: her final line "if you let me, I would like to try to be glinda the good." The most perfect quote to conclude one of the most fascinating character arcs on broadway. She's obviously been taught that looks and public favour hold the most power in society, and to a degree She is kind of proven right. I think her desire to help elphaba become popular actually comes from a place of trying to further empower her and she is so inspired by the goodness that she does, hence the message of the song 'for good.' Love love LOVE this musical more than I love my self bahahaha

  • @TinyLilMushroom
    @TinyLilMushroom 14 дней назад +7

    8:12 end of sponsor

  • @dancesmokesmile344
    @dancesmokesmile344 15 дней назад +1

    I haven’t seen the movie yet, but according to the book and musical, neither are wicked. And I love how they’re best friends

  • @onliwankannoli
    @onliwankannoli 16 дней назад +7

    People today seem to have difficulty discerning good from evil in real life, let alone a revisionist telling of a classic fictional story.

  • @MBYui
    @MBYui 16 дней назад +18

    I actually kinda liked this musical

  • @OctopusOdditySango
    @OctopusOdditySango 16 дней назад +7

    I JUST WATCHED IT LAST NIGHT AND CRIED SO MUCH BECAUSE IT WAS SO GOOD

  • @commonviewer2488
    @commonviewer2488 16 дней назад +4

    Intentions, actions, and consequences must all be considered when judging a person

  • @tgame43
    @tgame43 16 дней назад +3

    I think a lot of Glinda’s good deeds that you listed at 12:03 are wrong.
    Glinda seeing the green skin as an affliction was not a good thing.
    Glinda didn’t realise she was offering to share her private suite with Elphaba, she was just trying to get Madame Morrible’s attention to get into her sorcery class.
    She only talked to Boq to get him away from her, and the relationship she kindled between Boq and Nessarose results in them leading unhappy lives.
    She only gave Elphaba her grandmother’s hat because her friends peer pressured her into doing it to make Elphaba be humiliated at the Ozdust Ball.

    • @tgame43
      @tgame43 16 дней назад

      Nevermind! I didn’t look ahead in the video.

  • @timbraska6750
    @timbraska6750 16 дней назад +6

    Not too much of a fan of this "theory" to be honest. I really like the going in depth and analaysing the hidden stuff from movies and connecting stuff across multiple movies/universes. But here 1/3 of this video is explaining a chart which is self explanatory and the other 2/3 are just stating obvious things that aren't hidden in the movie.

  • @somescottishlassie891
    @somescottishlassie891 16 дней назад +4

    There's without a doubt a nature vs nurture theme in wicked too

  • @LabRatz-Ivor
    @LabRatz-Ivor 16 дней назад +18

    this gives the same vibes as 'was Frakenstiens monster actually evil?'

    • @Nohandle1125
      @Nohandle1125 16 дней назад

      Yes. He was. He knew the difference between right and wrong and still chose to do wrong.

    • @vitoriangamer7807
      @vitoriangamer7807 16 дней назад +1

      @@Nohandle1125but Frankenstein kinda deserved it tho, and he had a chance to stop the monster from doing more evil

    • @LabRatz-Ivor
      @LabRatz-Ivor 16 дней назад

      @@Nohandle1125 my brother in Christ the whole point of the book is that Frankenstein is the real monster, creating life but refusing to care or nurture it. Mary Shelly didn't lose her virginity on her mother's grave for this

  • @TMSandTDfan
    @TMSandTDfan 16 дней назад +5

    I’m so glad he talked about the Neutral
    I’m glad about this because it helps for me to know I’m neutral

  • @tashahemlock8195
    @tashahemlock8195 15 дней назад +1

    Given that Glinda is Lawful Neutral, I guess I can see the wizard as Lawful Evil. I mean, he is from Earth and I think the racism towards the talking animals stems from him being use to seeing animals not talking or being smart like humans. In his mind, its not natural. So in a way, he is making the talking animals be lesser to make them feral and not talk as it was the norm from his world.

  • @WendyMiddleton-c9y
    @WendyMiddleton-c9y 16 дней назад +3

    OMG love wicked and all the theory channels so very pleased with the crossover between channels!

  • @Soviniy
    @Soviniy 15 дней назад +1

    I've always struggled to decide if I could call myself good, because I am never sure how much of the good I do is because I just want people around me to be happy and want to be around me.
    I don't want to be selfish, but I know gratitude and others' joy feels good, and I can't ever tell if that's good or manipulative or where in-between.
    Or if it really even matters.

  • @BadHombre1
    @BadHombre1 16 дней назад +4

    If two witches were watching two wicked witches, which witch watched which wicked witch?

  • @rochet3568
    @rochet3568 16 дней назад +1

    Just as an observation, it took 8 minutes to start the discussion of the main topic of the video, I think the initial explanation could be summarized better. Good video!

  • @wo_tbgod2967
    @wo_tbgod2967 16 дней назад +5

    did this theory jsut explain wickeds entire idea...

  • @Crowchild176
    @Crowchild176 16 дней назад +2

    Me and my mom actually talked about this, she knew there was another act and did tell me Elphaba would do bad things. Of course, if Elphaba maybe had listened to the wizard’s side she would actually get to be a powerful witch like she wanted.
    Also, Glinda is a bit shallow but she means well.
    Finally, they’re both kids? I mean (correct me if I’m wrong) Elphaba looks to be 20 and Glinda 23

  • @nonnnth
    @nonnnth 16 дней назад +4

    I wish this version they change the plot of the wizard of oz. In that story, Glinda is a whole other person. There’s no way she would steal Nessa’s shoes and put them on Dorothy and taunt Elphaba to go get it back. It is way too evil and manipulative. Also Dorothy killing Elphaba is too cruel for her.

    • @Ray_Vun
      @Ray_Vun 16 дней назад +3

      wicked is fanfiction about the wizard of oz. it's not canon and not made by the same person. which is why the characters in wicked don't really match the characters in wizard of oz. wicked is more like once upon a time or disney's descendants, it's an au fanfic that uses pre established lore and twists it to fit their story

  • @owencoles2798
    @owencoles2798 12 дней назад +1

    I love the two parts. I haven’t felt excitement for an upcoming movie like this.

  • @gayslaybestie9317
    @gayslaybestie9317 16 дней назад +9

    i could not wait for this theory

  • @LocalMaple
    @LocalMaple 16 дней назад +2

    My take:
    Neither are wicked. One is rebellious and inflexible in their ideals, one bends their ideals to gain authority. The one that rebels splits the nation for the right reasons, while the one who bends the knee enables the worst to happen before standing up and actually doing the thing the rebel wanted to happen.
    The wicked one is the Wizard. While those who listen to and parrot his accusations of wickedness are ignorant fools. The lesson is to listen to those you disagree with, to observe the consequences of your leader’s policies, and then to act.

    • @girlpower_gacha
      @girlpower_gacha 16 дней назад

      Out of all the witches, nessa is definitely the wicked one.

  • @rawiazaidan4760
    @rawiazaidan4760 16 дней назад +11

    This was the last movie I expected a theory on this week but I am not complaining I love wicked

  • @Colezarius
    @Colezarius 16 дней назад +5

    Ah, dnd chart for a wizard movie

  • @roelandnaturewastaken
    @roelandnaturewastaken 15 дней назад +1

    One thing that has probably already been commented but I haven't seen it yet.
    Lawful is NOT following the law.
    It is following a moral code, whether this is government imposed or personal doesn't matter.
    Elphaba is thus a LAWFUL good character (Like Robin Hood who you also incorrectly placed)
    This is a common misconception so I completely understand the mistake.

  • @christophermartinez8836
    @christophermartinez8836 16 дней назад +3

    17:13 Copyright strike is terrifying
    *Not even 10 seconds later: Plays a snippet of the song*
    Seems like you don't care about copyright that much if you still play a snippet of the song.

  • @edbangor9163
    @edbangor9163 16 дней назад +1

    I feel like it's worth mentioning that Wicked is fanfiction, when the original book was intended as a straightforward story for kids.

  • @Lucky_9705
    @Lucky_9705 16 дней назад +3

    They’re both about morally equal in my eyes

  • @chetarisin3035
    @chetarisin3035 16 дней назад +6

    Didn't expect to be this early. Nice

  • @AkhierDragonheart
    @AkhierDragonheart 14 дней назад +1

    Most people are neutral. You have to actively work, to choose, to be good or evil. That includes the choice of non-interference. With that old saw, the trolly problem, you aren't good or evil for pulling or not pulling the lever when either choice kills people. However, you are choosing evil if to your best knowledge pulling the lever would prevent a death without causing other deaths. The "sin" of sloth, of non-action, in the face of something "evil". This does not mean you are evil for not jumping in front of a bullet to save someone else as that decision includes a death as well, your own.
    I like how a story I read ("The Power of Ten: Book One: Sama Rantha" on RoyalRoad by RE Druin) puts this whole good vs evil thing. It isn't evil that defeats good, but rather neutrality. Someone outright evil? Good will rise to fend it off. It is the neutral that wears away at goodness. Those who aren't evil, but will take without giving back. Those who while taking advantage of those around them, are willing to do what "needs to be done" to rise above others, even if only as a "last resort". It is evil that defeats neutrality because evil is willing to go straight for the throat. To do what neutrality might eventually get to right out of the gate. Evil against neutrality is about who backstabs first and that will almost always be evil.

  • @Therealjuicy01
    @Therealjuicy01 16 дней назад +3

    watching this also knowing i haven't wicked and don't know a clue

  • @Maller81
    @Maller81 День назад +1

    The Chaotic Witch of the West
    VS.
    The Lawful Witch of the North

  • @alexs6746
    @alexs6746 16 дней назад +5

    That’s a mouthful of a title

  • @WolfPack505-m1s
    @WolfPack505-m1s 16 дней назад +1

    Chaotic good and lawful neutral are Elphiba and Glinda summarized into a short statement.

  • @Just_Some_Gal
    @Just_Some_Gal 16 дней назад +3

    There's really no telling which witch is wicked in Wicked
    Good luck saying that fast five times

  • @dangalvan2484
    @dangalvan2484 15 дней назад

    As a wicked fan and a DnD player, I was giddy through the whole video. Thank you

  • @FilmsStarAxis
    @FilmsStarAxis 16 дней назад +9

    Bro I’ve never been this early to a video this is crazy

  • @billdicklechips
    @billdicklechips 13 дней назад +1

    You placed both of them exactly where I thought you were going to in the morality table.

  • @fire6755
    @fire6755 16 дней назад +5

    What a wicked video!🎉.....my bad i wont joke again.